Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
HPRamper wrote:In that region, FX is totally reliant on belly freight though. They don't have a single flight to the continent of Africa.
Is DWC going to operate in conjunction with DXB? I thought it was a replacement. In any case, there's very little chance FX will use both. All air ops will be shifted to DWC.
wjcandee wrote:I thought 620dl, 557cm, and 531ua all went to HGR at once, and then 605DL recently followed them there on 9/2/21. They were definitely all sold.
Funny that Astral bought them; given that CAM leases a 762 to Astral, weird that CAM didn't make a lease or purchase deal with Astral (or maybe it did; maybe it sold them to Astral, but it doesn't seem like it; seems like there was a middleman).
N557CM is on its way to VCV. Maybe for paint.
MO11 wrote:N605DL, N620DL, and N557CM were sold on the same day in July. N531UA was sold in October. I think the first three were the ones sold to Aquila Air Capital (which will lease to Astral).
According to the client, an explicit search was made this time for an Airbus A340, as it can transport the required volume of equipment, food and fuel in just two flights. For example, the Boeing 757 would have had to make more rounds, which would ultimately have resulted in higher costs.
Breaking: Fun and games in #F1 land. Two of the F1 freight planes are stuck in Miami so it’s going to be a very late start to get building cars and get them through scrutineering in time for Friday. Herculean effort by lots of people but schedule might have to change.
wjcandee wrote:zkojq: WOW!!!! Really-great summary.
wjcandee wrote:I hadn't realized how many of these preighter operators were coming into the US.
BHRN wrote:HPRamper wrote:In that region, FX is totally reliant on belly freight though. They don't have a single flight to the continent of Africa.
Is DWC going to operate in conjunction with DXB? I thought it was a replacement. In any case, there's very little chance FX will use both. All air ops will be shifted to DWC.
There is now a weekly JNB-DXB on purple tail.
MO11 wrote:The first UPS "peak" flights start next week.....
Spacepope wrote:MO11 wrote:The first UPS "peak" flights start next week.....
What additional kinds of frequencies are we looking at?
MO11 wrote:Spacepope wrote:MO11 wrote:The first UPS "peak" flights start next week.....
What additional kinds of frequencies are we looking at?
Atlas puts in two 747s Monday night.
Then the week after Thanksgiving: ATI adds 2 767s, ABX 2 767s, NCR 2 747s, WGN 2 MD11s, MGE 1 757, TSU 2 727s.
Then on December 13: CKS 5 747s, CSB 1 767, KYE 2 747s, WGN 1 747, ABX 1 more 767, GTI 1 more 747, KII 2 727s.
Then on December 19: CKS 1 more 747, WGN 1 more 747.
There seems to be a third NCR 747 in the system, but I haven't found where. There will be two GTI 747s remaining on duty during the week following Christmas.
MO11 wrote:Spacepope wrote:MO11 wrote:The first UPS "peak" flights start next week.....
What additional kinds of frequencies are we looking at?
Atlas puts in two 747s Monday night.
Then the week after Thanksgiving: ATI adds 2 767s, ABX 2 767s, NCR 2 747s, WGN 2 MD11s, MGE 1 757, TSU 2 727s.
Then on December 13: CKS 5 747s, CSB 1 767, KYE 2 747s, WGN 1 747, ABX 1 more 767, GTI 1 more 747, KII 2 727s.
Then on December 19: CKS 1 more 747, WGN 1 more 747.
There seems to be a third NCR 747 in the system, but I haven't found where. There will be two GTI 747s remaining on duty during the week following Christmas.
747classic wrote:IMHO WGN has acquired more MD11's than it can digest at the moment.
First they have to be allowed to grow beyond the current fleet limit of 19 aircraft, see : https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... e-removed/
Seen the dispatch rate and aircraft availability of the current WGN fleet, I would have second thoughts, but i'm not an inspector, employed at the US Department of Transportation (DoT)
Perhaps a quick sale of one or more stored WGN MD11's to UPS or FedEx could reduce the strain on WGN's maintenance department.
747classic wrote:Some UPS fleet info :
Brand new UPS 747-8F N631UP, original scheduled for delivery at the start of 2022, presently at Portland for paint, could also be delivered in approx two weeks time.
One or both of the last to be delivered UPS 767-300F's could become active just before the peak.
L/N 1260 C/N 66811 B767-300F N376UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR304)
L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)
On the down side : UPS 747-44AF N572UP, damaged due tailtipping, is still at Seoul (ICN) for structural repairs. (Boeing AOG team ?)
MO11 wrote:Spacepope wrote:MO11 wrote:The first UPS "peak" flights start next week.....
What additional kinds of frequencies are we looking at?
Atlas puts in two 747s Monday night.
Then the week after Thanksgiving: ATI adds 2 767s, ABX 2 767s, NCR 2 747s, WGN 2 MD11s, MGE 1 757, TSU 2 727s.
Then on December 13: CKS 5 747s, CSB 1 767, KYE 2 747s, WGN 1 747, ABX 1 more 767, GTI 1 more 747, KII 2 727s.
Then on December 19: CKS 1 more 747, WGN 1 more 747.
There seems to be a third NCR 747 in the system, but I haven't found where. There will be two GTI 747s remaining on duty during the week following Christmas.
MO11 wrote:
Atlas puts in two 747s Monday night.
Then the week after Thanksgiving: ATI adds 2 767s, ABX 2 767s, NCR 2 747s, WGN 2 MD11s, MGE 1 757, TSU 2 727s.
Then on December 13: CKS 5 747s, CSB 1 767, KYE 2 747s, WGN 1 747, ABX 1 more 767, GTI 1 more 747, KII 2 727s.
Then on December 19: CKS 1 more 747, WGN 1 more 747.
There seems to be a third NCR 747 in the system, but I haven't found where. There will be two GTI 747s remaining on duty during the week following Christmas.
wjcandee wrote:
You know who's missing: AJT. I have to wonder whether they might try to push a ship or two into Peak for one of the consolidators, and backfill by having Skybus run BOTH DC8s on international missions. That would be FUN. I just don't know what kind of crews Skybus has or could make available.
wjcandee wrote:National's 744s:
919CA in HHN for 2 days.
952CA in the air.
702CA in the air on a Camber flight.
729CA flying military.
756CA broken in Jordan since 10/22.
952CA flying.
CX Flyboy wrote:wjcandee wrote:National's 744s:
919CA in HHN for 2 days.
952CA in the air.
702CA in the air on a Camber flight.
729CA flying military.
756CA broken in Jordan since 10/22.
952CA flying.
Don't they have seven 744s now?
DL757NYC wrote:With companies searching high and low for available 747F. I ask why hasn’t anyone purchased the ex DL 747’s they were essentially 10-14 years old and were parked when heavy maintenance came up. N671US-n674US,675NW,N676NW. Delivered between 99-03 have around 7000k cycles and 53k-64k hours. They were well maintained.If they were put through freighter conversion they would be viable aircraft for decades.
747classic wrote:Another 747 freighter emerges from storage :
Former Saudia 747-87UF HZ-AI3, re-registred M-ABOV, owner CIB leasing, earmarked to be leased to AirBridgeCargo, has been ferried JED-SJH at November 11th 2021 , after storage at JED from Jan 6 2020.
See : https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/M-ABOV
wjcandee wrote:On Free Brittany Day (we'll see how smart that turns out to be), WGN's MD11 N545JN has finally been freed from SHV after a little more than two months there.
We'll see how well that turns out, as well. Currently at LAX.
Meanwhile, on the MD11s, N411SN is still being worked on at SHV, for a little over 3 weeks.
543JN has been sitting in MEM for about a month and a half.
512JN has been sitting in Chicago for 6 days.
415JN has been sitting at ICN for 3 days.
On the 747s, 356KD has been in SHV for a bit over 5 weeks.
452SN is still in conformity (or whatever) at SHV, for 3.5 weeks.
Any time you see a Preighter moving from somewhere to the US, that's traffic that could have flown on a WGN ship. Lots of missed opportunities, but I guess nobody's requiring them to try to maximize the value of their assets or operation.
wjcandee wrote:On Free Brittany Day (we'll see how smart that turns out to be), WGN's MD11 N545JN has finally been freed from SHV after a little more than two months there.
We'll see how well that turns out, as well. Currently at LAX.
Meanwhile, on the MD11s, N411SN is still being worked on at SHV, for a little over 3 weeks.
543JN has been sitting in MEM for about a month and a half.
512JN has been sitting in Chicago for 6 days.
415JN has been sitting at ICN for 3 days.
On the 747s, 356KD has been in SHV for a bit over 5 weeks.
452SN is still in conformity (or whatever) at SHV, for 3.5 weeks.
Any time you see a Preighter moving from somewhere to the US, that's traffic that could have flown on a WGN ship. Lots of missed opportunities, but I guess nobody's requiring them to try to maximize the value of their assets or operation.
DL757NYC wrote:747classic wrote:Another 747 freighter emerges from storage :
Former Saudia 747-87UF HZ-AI3, re-registred M-ABOV, owner CIB leasing, earmarked to be leased to AirBridgeCargo, has been ferried JED-SJH at November 11th 2021 , after storage at JED from Jan 6 2020.
See : https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/M-ABOV
We’re those the ones leased by BA.
Cardude2 wrote:DL757NYC wrote:747classic wrote:Another 747 freighter emerges from storage :
Former Saudia 747-87UF HZ-AI3, re-registred M-ABOV, owner CIB leasing, earmarked to be leased to AirBridgeCargo, has been ferried JED-SJH at November 11th 2021 , after storage at JED from Jan 6 2020.
See : https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/M-ABOV
We’re those the ones leased by BA.
No, atlas air then they gave both up and they went to Saudia
The 3 BA birds all got purchased by atlas and went to polar for dhl and 2 of them have since been transferred back to atlas
747classic wrote:dorn12 wrote:
Flew out of TPE yesterday, N781SN is fully painted in WGA colors.
But she hasn't been seen flying at any flight tracker, only Radarbox indicates some small taxi (or error) movements at the TPE appron 4 days ago.
See : https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/N781SN
tofen wrote:On another note, have all of the Sky Lease MD11s been scrapped?
With how hard they're running their 747s, it seems that they really could have done well with a couple of additional frames.
tofen wrote:I'm a bit surprised that we've not seen more A300 or A310 freighters getting dragged out of storage. While we hear a lot about 747s, MD11s and preighters off all shapes and sizes being pressed back in to service, it seems that you should be able to make some good money even with a step down in frame size.
I think we've seen a couple of really old ones potentially back in action with a few smaller Kyrgyz outlets, but that's it.
Are there simply no ones around that's in good condition?
Don't FedEx have a bunch of both A300s and A310s in the dessert that could be brought back? Potentially freeing up some MD11s for longer haul missions.
MS should also have a pair that they recently retired after they got their A330 conversions.
What about the ex. Uni-Top machines? Are they still intact or have they been scrapped?
On another note, have all of the Sky Lease MD11s been scrapped?
With how hard they're running their 747s, it seems that they really could have done well with a couple of additional frames.
wjcandee wrote:DL757NYC wrote:With companies searching high and low for available 747F. I ask why hasn’t anyone purchased the ex DL 747’s they were essentially 10-14 years old and were parked when heavy maintenance came up. N671US-n674US,675NW,N676NW. Delivered between 99-03 have around 7000k cycles and 53k-64k hours. They were well maintained.If they were put through freighter conversion they would be viable aircraft for decades.
This is just an EWAG, but I'm thinking that most lessors/operators are thinking that the 744 demand isn't going to last for but a couple of years, and that the 777F is going to start to pick up a lot of business even if demand stays high. So with trips running 1-2 million dollars each, a smallish investment in a D-check of a converted F or piecing one back together should pay off, but a higher-capital-investment move like a full 744 conversion might not pay back. Who knows whether that's correct, but I think that that's the thinking. Also, the lead time to fabricate the conversion kit and have it installed might be a year or more. I think they're afraid of owning the asset when the music stops.
CX747 wrote:wjcandee wrote:DL757NYC wrote:With companies searching high and low for available 747F. I ask why hasn’t anyone purchased the ex DL 747’s they were essentially 10-14 years old and were parked when heavy maintenance came up. N671US-n674US,675NW,N676NW. Delivered between 99-03 have around 7000k cycles and 53k-64k hours. They were well maintained.If they were put through freighter conversion they would be viable aircraft for decades.
This is just an EWAG, but I'm thinking that most lessors/operators are thinking that the 744 demand isn't going to last for but a couple of years, and that the 777F is going to start to pick up a lot of business even if demand stays high. So with trips running 1-2 million dollars each, a smallish investment in a D-check of a converted F or piecing one back together should pay off, but a higher-capital-investment move like a full 744 conversion might not pay back. Who knows whether that's correct, but I think that that's the thinking. Also, the lead time to fabricate the conversion kit and have it installed might be a year or more. I think they're afraid of owning the asset when the music stops.
The ex-DL 747-400s are indeed prime candidates for conversion. I just don't see it happening though.
IAI is the only game in town and was supposed to restart the 747 P2F line last year. There were rumblings and grumblings but nothing that led to a full P2F line running again. Ex VS and KLM 747s made the trip to TLV but were only turned into paxargo jets. IAI is 100% in for the 777-300ERSF and that is where their engineering and sales talent is going to be focused.
Another aspect of the ever expanding cargo fleet is that many of the operators have the ability to buy an already converted jet, or scrape it together. The wait time and cost of a full conversion may be too much for them.
One thing that does leave me shaking my head is that I have not heard any rumors from January 2020 till now, about the owner of the ex-DL jets offering them for conversion. Some people are more interested in staring at IG rather than being an active worker I guess!
a2b7 wrote:CX747 wrote:wjcandee wrote:
This is just an EWAG, but I'm thinking that most lessors/operators are thinking that the 744 demand isn't going to last for but a couple of years, and that the 777F is going to start to pick up a lot of business even if demand stays high. So with trips running 1-2 million dollars each, a smallish investment in a D-check of a converted F or piecing one back together should pay off, but a higher-capital-investment move like a full 744 conversion might not pay back. Who knows whether that's correct, but I think that that's the thinking. Also, the lead time to fabricate the conversion kit and have it installed might be a year or more. I think they're afraid of owning the asset when the music stops.
The ex-DL 747-400s are indeed prime candidates for conversion. I just don't see it happening though.
IAI is the only game in town and was supposed to restart the 747 P2F line last year. There were rumblings and grumblings but nothing that led to a full P2F line running again. Ex VS and KLM 747s made the trip to TLV but were only turned into paxargo jets. IAI is 100% in for the 777-300ERSF and that is where their engineering and sales talent is going to be focused.
Another aspect of the ever expanding cargo fleet is that many of the operators have the ability to buy an already converted jet, or scrape it together. The wait time and cost of a full conversion may be too much for them.
One thing that does leave me shaking my head is that I have not heard any rumors from January 2020 till now, about the owner of the ex-DL jets offering them for conversion. Some people are more interested in staring at IG rather than being an active worker I guess!
Even if there still was an active B744 cargo conversion line, it would simply be too late for a number of DL B744s. There is a photo on airlines.net from Jun 2021 that shows 9 of them being parted out at MZJ:
a2b7 wrote:tofen wrote:I'm a bit surprised that we've not seen more A300 or A310 freighters getting dragged out of storage. While we hear a lot about 747s, MD11s and preighters off all shapes and sizes being pressed back in to service, it seems that you should be able to make some good money even with a step down in frame size.
I think we've seen a couple of really old ones potentially back in action with a few smaller Kyrgyz outlets, but that's it.
Are there simply no ones around that's in good condition?
Don't FedEx have a bunch of both A300s and A310s in the dessert that could be brought back? Potentially freeing up some MD11s for longer haul missions.
MS should also have a pair that they recently retired after they got their A330 conversions.
What about the ex. Uni-Top machines? Are they still intact or have they been scrapped?
On another note, have all of the Sky Lease MD11s been scrapped?
With how hard they're running their 747s, it seems that they really could have done well with a couple of additional frames.
On planespotters.net, the only A300-600 freighters in storage are from FedEx, Egypt Air and Uni-Top. I think that it is quite telling that FedEx even retired one of its A300s in April, N717FD, so I don't expect any of those stored to return. Unfortunately I don't know the status of the Egypt Air freighters.
The Uni-Top freighters should become available, because Uni-Top was declared bankrupt and will be liquidated according to the headline at https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... liquidated from Aug 2021. Let's see what happens to them.
CX747 wrote:a2b7 wrote:CX747 wrote:
The ex-DL 747-400s are indeed prime candidates for conversion. I just don't see it happening though.
IAI is the only game in town and was supposed to restart the 747 P2F line last year. There were rumblings and grumblings but nothing that led to a full P2F line running again. Ex VS and KLM 747s made the trip to TLV but were only turned into paxargo jets. IAI is 100% in for the 777-300ERSF and that is where their engineering and sales talent is going to be focused.
Another aspect of the ever expanding cargo fleet is that many of the operators have the ability to buy an already converted jet, or scrape it together. The wait time and cost of a full conversion may be too much for them.
One thing that does leave me shaking my head is that I have not heard any rumors from January 2020 till now, about the owner of the ex-DL jets offering them for conversion. Some people are more interested in staring at IG rather than being an active worker I guess!
Even if there still was an active B744 cargo conversion line, it would simply be too late for a number of DL B744s. There is a photo on airlines.net from Jun 2021 that shows 9 of them being parted out at MZJ:
Excellent find. -2 on my behalf for not doing further research on what state they were actually in. At least we know the parts are going to good use and will keep the active fleet going for quite some time. Amazing to think that jets in that age group are gone, meanwhile I passed some 1960s produced KC-135 tails a week or two back. They were just raring to go.
Spacepope wrote:a2b7 wrote:tofen wrote:I'm a bit surprised that we've not seen more A300 or A310 freighters getting dragged out of storage. While we hear a lot about 747s, MD11s and preighters off all shapes and sizes being pressed back in to service, it seems that you should be able to make some good money even with a step down in frame size.
I think we've seen a couple of really old ones potentially back in action with a few smaller Kyrgyz outlets, but that's it.
Are there simply no ones around that's in good condition?
Don't FedEx have a bunch of both A300s and A310s in the dessert that could be brought back? Potentially freeing up some MD11s for longer haul missions.
MS should also have a pair that they recently retired after they got their A330 conversions.
What about the ex. Uni-Top machines? Are they still intact or have they been scrapped?
On another note, have all of the Sky Lease MD11s been scrapped?
With how hard they're running their 747s, it seems that they really could have done well with a couple of additional frames.
On planespotters.net, the only A300-600 freighters in storage are from FedEx, Egypt Air and Uni-Top. I think that it is quite telling that FedEx even retired one of its A300s in April, N717FD, so I don't expect any of those stored to return. Unfortunately I don't know the status of the Egypt Air freighters.
The Uni-Top freighters should become available, because Uni-Top was declared bankrupt and will be liquidated according to the headline at https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... liquidated from Aug 2021. Let's see what happens to them.
FedEx has pretty much decided that the current A300F fleet is the size that works best for them and they're not adding or parking any more for the near future. The A310s could probably have been stretched in service a bit longer, but they also have the unfortunate commonality of basic engines with the larger A300, the 747, 767 and MD-11.
Which brings me to why the A300 fleets that were parked as well as the 747 passenger fleets aren't going to get reactivated: Other freighter fleets have scrambled around for those engines with green time, and they're the limiting reagent in this reaction. As long as freighter operators just lease time on engines and don't pony up for spendy overhauls, we'll see perfectly serviceable airframes parked because of no motors.
The parked Airbii for FX are getting picked pretty clean.
DL757NYC wrote:Spacepope wrote:a2b7 wrote:On planespotters.net, the only A300-600 freighters in storage are from FedEx, Egypt Air and Uni-Top. I think that it is quite telling that FedEx even retired one of its A300s in April, N717FD, so I don't expect any of those stored to return. Unfortunately I don't know the status of the Egypt Air freighters.
The Uni-Top freighters should become available, because Uni-Top was declared bankrupt and will be liquidated according to the headline at https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... liquidated from Aug 2021. Let's see what happens to them.
FedEx has pretty much decided that the current A300F fleet is the size that works best for them and they're not adding or parking any more for the near future. The A310s could probably have been stretched in service a bit longer, but they also have the unfortunate commonality of basic engines with the larger A300, the 747, 767 and MD-11.
Which brings me to why the A300 fleets that were parked as well as the 747 passenger fleets aren't going to get reactivated: Other freighter fleets have scrambled around for those engines with green time, and they're the limiting reagent in this reaction. As long as freighter operators just lease time on engines and don't pony up for spendy overhauls, we'll see perfectly serviceable airframes parked because of no motors.
The parked Airbii for FX are getting picked pretty clean.
FX has quite a few MD-11’s parked. I didn’t realize it was that many.
