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DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:30 am

Some will be interested to know that ATG's ER-BBC which was the only member of the fleet not hard at work the past few weeks, now is. Currently en-route LGG-NQZ. They continue to have a great operation, chugging along between China/HKG and various points in Europe.

Our friends at Aerostan are also busy, with both ships '01 & '02 busy between (the former Portuguese colony of) Macau and various points in Pakistan and the Middle East. Indeed ship '02 is currently branching out again and heading toward West Africa, probably LOS based on previous work.

ER-BAR has been quiet, and I suspect she is still sitting in FRU, and I picked up the near-invisible ER-BAT departing LOS one day last week but not seen since.

WGN are working their 747 triumvirate hard. It looks like they have picked up extra work on the TPAC routing which has kept factory-F N258SN hard at work most of this year. N344KD is now flying a similar pattern so I found that of interest.
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:35 am

zkojq wrote:
Airwork has had an Olympus Air 757-200F (SX-APX) on lease for the past few months. This is being used to do FedEx TransTasman work. Not sure if this is a wet lease or a dry lease, though I assume the former. Interestingly, Airwork does actually own a few 757s, though they're all dry leased to other carriers. I don't think any of them have actually visited New Zealand though.



It will be interesting to see how long this lease lasts for, now that bellyhold capacity on the Tasman has strengthened significantly. With NZ's 789s and QF's 333s both in plentiful supply on the Tasman as of last week. DHL have also recently added another flying line, SINSYD which Kalitta is operating for them. Lately it's been a very early 1989 build 744BCF. Nice to see in my region in addition to their 77Fs which operate the LAXSYD and on to Asia.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:27 am

DLNZ: Correct!
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:21 am

wjcandee wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

RFD is a little unique because there is a buttload of existing transportation infrastructure nearby, including rail.


What rail is there at RFD?


Well, I initially said that UP had their vaunted Global III intermodal terminal just 30 minutes due south in Rochelle. But I now realize that they closed it in 2Q 2020 as part of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Oy.

Still, Chicago is a major rail hub, where the eastern and western railroads all interconnect, and RFD is nearby -- as compared to DAY, LCK, ILN, etc. That was my point writ large.

Got ya, I thought maybe you were talking about commuter rail or Amtrak.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:21 am

DLNZ wrote:
Some will be interested to know that ATG's ER-BBC which was the only member of the fleet not hard at work the past few weeks, now is.


I actually just saw that today! And thank you for the comprehensive report on the rest of our ragtag bunch. GeoSky and Big Shot seem to be completely-engaged: so nice to see the -200s showing their stuff!
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:57 am

DLNZ wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Airwork has had an Olympus Air 757-200F (SX-APX) on lease for the past few months. This is being used to do FedEx TransTasman work. Not sure if this is a wet lease or a dry lease, though I assume the former. Interestingly, Airwork does actually own a few 757s, though they're all dry leased to other carriers. I don't think any of them have actually visited New Zealand though.



It will be interesting to see how long this lease lasts for, now that bellyhold capacity on the Tasman has strengthened significantly. With NZ's 789s and QF's 333s both in plentiful supply on the Tasman as of last week.


Agreed. Would be interesting to see the change in yields month on month. Tasman Cargo Airlines also seemed to have been doing more additional TT sectors in recent times. Again, it will be interesting to see how long these last.
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DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:35 am

wjcandee wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
Some will be interested to know that ATG's ER-BBC which was the only member of the fleet not hard at work the past few weeks, now is.


I actually just saw that today! And thank you for the comprehensive report on the rest of our ragtag bunch. GeoSky and Big Shot seem to be completely-engaged: so nice to see the -200s showing their stuff!


Just as p.s. to my previous post, flagship of the ATG fleet ER-BBJ, the factory F ex-SQ bird actually operated to CGK so perhaps a maintenance visit to GMF.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:25 pm

Any idea who will snatch up the 2 Saudia 747-8Fs? They've been parked since the beginning of last year, in Jeddah.
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wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:04 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:

What rail is there at RFD?


Well, I initially said that UP had their vaunted Global III intermodal terminal just 30 minutes due south in Rochelle. But I now realize that they closed it in 2Q 2020 as part of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Oy.

Still, Chicago is a major rail hub, where the eastern and western railroads all interconnect, and RFD is nearby -- as compared to DAY, LCK, ILN, etc. That was my point writ large.

Got ya, I thought maybe you were talking about commuter rail or Amtrak.


Oh, sorry. I was thinking that if an airport is going to focus on cargo, having good connections to other modes of cargo transportation was a significant factor. At one point, the REA express cars on passenger trains (which Amtrak tried to revive a few years ago as a revenue stream, but the major railroads freaked out about) moved a fair amount of express shipping, faster than trucks, but not any longer.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:02 pm

No worries, as soon as I read your response I realized what you meant. I love your information on this thread but knowing the area somewhat I just thought I’d chime in.
 
mcg
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:00 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Well, I initially said that UP had their vaunted Global III intermodal terminal just 30 minutes due south in Rochelle. But I now realize that they closed it in 2Q 2020 as part of Precision Scheduled Railroading. Oy.

Still, Chicago is a major rail hub, where the eastern and western railroads all interconnect, and RFD is nearby -- as compared to DAY, LCK, ILN, etc. That was my point writ large.

Got ya, I thought maybe you were talking about commuter rail or Amtrak.


Oh, sorry. I was thinking that if an airport is going to focus on cargo, having good connections to other modes of cargo transportation was a significant factor. At one point, the REA express cars on passenger trains (which Amtrak tried to revive a few years ago as a revenue stream, but the major railroads freaked out about) moved a fair amount of express shipping, faster than trucks, but not any longer.


I've always wondered why a congested airport like ORD handles any freight at all. It would seem that it would be a relatively inexpensive de-congestion strategy to move freight ops to other airports. There would have to be an investment in infrastructure at the relief airport, but compared to the cost of a significant expansion of capacity at ORD it might be a good investment. I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering (like a lot freight might end up some additional hours of road time from it's destination), but for very crowded airports like ORD, JFK, and LAX this might be a viable thing.

Related question, does LHR serve fright flights?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:33 pm

mcg wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
Got ya, I thought maybe you were talking about commuter rail or Amtrak.


Oh, sorry. I was thinking that if an airport is going to focus on cargo, having good connections to other modes of cargo transportation was a significant factor. At one point, the REA express cars on passenger trains (which Amtrak tried to revive a few years ago as a revenue stream, but the major railroads freaked out about) moved a fair amount of express shipping, faster than trucks, but not any longer.


I've always wondered why a congested airport like ORD handles any freight at all. It would seem that it would be a relatively inexpensive de-congestion strategy to move freight ops to other airports. There would have to be an investment in infrastructure at the relief airport, but compared to the cost of a significant expansion of capacity at ORD it might be a good investment. I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering (like a lot freight might end up some additional hours of road time from it's destination), but for very crowded airports like ORD, JFK, and LAX this might be a viable thing.

Related question, does LHR serve fright flights?


LHR has many freight flights. Most freight comes at non-peak passenger flight times, moreover the significant infrastructure generally and for freight is already in place due to the passenger carriers.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:17 pm

mcg wrote:
I've always wondered why a congested airport like ORD handles any freight at all. It would seem that it would be a relatively inexpensive de-congestion strategy to move freight ops to other airports. There would have to be an investment in infrastructure at the relief airport, but compared to the cost of a significant expansion of capacity at ORD it might be a good investment. I'm sure there are factors I'm not considering (like a lot freight might end up some additional hours of road time from it's destination), but for very crowded airports like ORD, JFK, and LAX this might be a viable thing.

This has come up in our various discussions of the DXB-DWC situation. So far, it's hard to beat both belly freight and main deck freighters delivering to the same airport, Trucking between airports for onward shipment is often less than optimal, even if they are relatively close to each other. Who knows, maybe the point of optimization shifts in the e-commerce heavy, post-covid world?
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TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:11 pm

Pre Covid times , someone once told me that LHR is the busiest “port” in the UK.
The amount of Belly freight as well as the normal cargo only flights is absolutely huge ..
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:29 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
travaz wrote:
My son drives an OTR Semi and the drivers have told the Company they won't do Cargo at ORD. Drivers have had 12 to 36 hours waiting for loads. No wheels moving no money for the driver. The cargo at ORD is a very small part of thier business but it does highlight the problems.


So, what’s the issue causing the load delays?


It's discussed in the article above, and it's pretty-interesting.


Aha! Management and staff being too disorganized to find their butt with both hands and truckers paying the price for ineptitude. Welp, I'm headed into my busy season and trying to restock things so we'll see if I can't help contribute to the overall chaos.
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LAXintl
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:31 pm

MasAir getting in the A330 game with the lease of two Airbus A330-200P2Fs for early 2022 delivery.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/m ... -altavair/

They say the A330 will allow them to expand into markets like China for which they were awarded traffic rights to.
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a2b7
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:57 pm

LAXintl wrote:
MasAir getting in the A330 game with the lease of two Airbus A330-200P2Fs for early 2022 delivery.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/m ... -altavair/

They say the A330 will allow them to expand into markets like China for which they were awarded traffic rights to.

Interesting. Aircargonews also says that they are leased from Altavair, so these are probably two ex-Etihad A332 (see e.g. https://cargofacts.com/allposts/aircraf ... nversions/ )
 
gdavis003
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:59 am

It looks like N705AA, the former Asia Pacific 727 which was sitting in Barbados, has made it to NBO in Astral colors https://www.instagram.com/p/CNsedewsmXy ... _copy_link). New registration is 5Y-NIV. The last flight that I have been able to track was the ferry from OPF to BGI in January, so I'm not quite sure when it got to NBO. Looks like they're using the 727's (5Y-MWM is pictured on their Instagram) for vaccine flights from Mumbai to Sana'a, Yemen. Their 727s are rather difficult to track though, unfortunately.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:22 pm

Indigo to get 2 Airbus A321P2F aircraft. Not mentioned if they will be converted by Preciscion or by EFW/ST.

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/busines ... 2fs/?amp=1
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CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:46 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
It looks like N705AA, the former Asia Pacific 727 which was sitting in Barbados, has made it to NBO in Astral colors https://www.instagram.com/p/CNsedewsmXy ... _copy_link). New registration is 5Y-NIV. The last flight that I have been able to track was the ferry from OPF to BGI in January, so I'm not quite sure when it got to NBO. Looks like they're using the 727's (5Y-MWM is pictured on their Instagram) for vaccine flights from Mumbai to Sana'a, Yemen. Their 727s are rather difficult to track though, unfortunately.


Glad to see that 727 move on from Barbados. I was beginning to think the deal fell through.

One of the carriers we haven't discussed here did not get the memo that the cool cats fly old metal.

Silkway West Airlines out of Azerbaijan, runs 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs. They just bought 5 brand spankin new 777Fs. I love the old metal but it will be fun to see how Aerotranscargo, Aerostan and GEO Sky move forward in the next 3-5 years with fleet planning. I personally think the 747-200Fs continue on for 3-5 years at least.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 78355.html
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747classic
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:20 pm

I was searching the internet for : 747-8 for sale
Found : https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft
Asking price : $95.000.000
Most probably, this must be L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065, F/F May-30-2012, stored at Basel (BSL) with registration N458BJ.
Remarkable are the airframe notes :
- Brand new 747-8 in factory green configuration.
- Only has 40 hours 18 landings since new.
- Aircraft will be delivered with a 747-400BCF Cargo door installed ??
- Can be converted to a full freighter after the door installation.
- GE Genx-2B Engines

If this adv is true, then this could be the first 747-8I P-F conversion.
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:54 pm

747classic wrote:
I was searching the internet for : 747-8 for sale
Found : https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft
Asking price : $95.000.000
Most probably, this must be L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065, F/F May-30-2012, stored at Basel (BSL) with registration N458BJ.
Remarkable are the airframe notes :
- Brand new 747-8 in factory green configuration.
- Only has 40 hours 18 landings since new.
- Aircraft will be delivered with a 747-400BCF Cargo door installed ??
- Can be converted to a full freighter after the door installation.
- GE Genx-2B Engines

If this adv is true, then this could be the first 747-8I P-F conversion.


Interesting. Are BCFs being offered still? Or is this a new not-public program that Boeing is engaging in?
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gdavis003
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:09 pm

Anyone know anything about Career Aviation Company LLC? I just noticed that they have an active 727-200F (N209TR), currently based out of TOL. They also have an active 737-300F (N383TR), TOL based also. The 737-300 is on it's first flight out of TOL to south of the border since March, and the 727 looks to have only operated a flight a week or so. The work looks to be for auto cargo, as the 727 has been running to GSP/LRD and other Mexico stations/ELP/MCI and more. Just came across a picture of their 727 on Facebook and had not heard of them before.
 
jjbiv
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:41 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Anyone know anything about Career Aviation Company LLC? I just noticed that they have an active 727-200F (N209TR), currently based out of TOL. They also have an active 737-300F (N383TR), TOL based also. The 737-300 is on it's first flight out of TOL to south of the border since March, and the 727 looks to have only operated a flight a week or so. The work looks to be for auto cargo, as the 727 has been running to GSP/LRD and other Mexico stations/ELP/MCI and more. Just came across a picture of their 727 on Facebook and had not heard of them before.


Career Aviation Company LLC is the lessor of the aircraft but they are operated by Interjet West (IJW), a part 125 carrier based in Toledo.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:07 pm

Silkway orders 5 777Fs. Unclear if these are already in the books or new orders.

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/silk-way- ... reighters/
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:34 pm

Spacepope wrote:
747classic wrote:
I was searching the internet for : 747-8 for sale
Found : https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft
Asking price : $95.000.000
Most probably, this must be L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065, F/F May-30-2012, stored at Basel (BSL) with registration N458BJ.
Remarkable are the airframe notes :
- Brand new 747-8 in factory green configuration.
- Only has 40 hours 18 landings since new.
- Aircraft will be delivered with a 747-400BCF Cargo door installed ??
- Can be converted to a full freighter after the door installation.
- GE Genx-2B Engines

If this adv is true, then this could be the first 747-8I P-F conversion.


Interesting. Are BCFs being offered still? Or is this a new not-public program that Boeing is engaging in?


It is indeed a way out of left field data set. I've been tracking the "interesting news" comment on the overall 747 fleet. A 747-8i P2F conversion program would be interesting to say the least. We've all discussed the merits of that program before but this info paints the probability of that action in a different light.

The owners claim to be outside of LA, with the aircraft stationed their also. I'm in CA a few weeks from now, maybe I can slide on over and take a peek. I believe there was an in depth discussion on the 747-8i a while back where truly the P2F program could only be 40+ aircraft max.

IF it were to match the 777-300ERSF production of 6 aircraft a year, you are looking at a half decade of production....call me crazy but what if someone like IAI opened back up the 747 P2F line for both 747-400s and 747-8i aircraft? If you picked up 40+ 747-8i and 20 decent 747-400s, you are looking at 6 aircraft a year and a 10 year production run. That is a long time and has plenty of holes in the thought process but something to think about.

A fun fact when going down the 747-8i rabbit hole was the BCF cargo door photo. If one looks closely enough, the 747 in the background of the photo looks to be one of Aerostan's 747-200Fs.
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wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:35 pm

This sounds very-odd to me. There were all sorts of aerodynamic weirdnesses on the 748i and 748F, and the 748i has a looooooooooong upper deck. If protocol for the 744 were followed, some of that would have to be cut back in a conversion. It seems like those two things alone would require a buttload of engineering and even-more testing before an STC for a 748BCF could be approved.

And yet there are only a few available 748is to convert, and only a few more out there beyond that. Meanwhile, look at how long it was taking for the engineering on the Big Twin to occur. And there are 8-jabillion of suitable feedstock for those available soon to justify that expense.

Meanwhile, just a year ago, people were parking their 744 freighters, particularly the conversions but also the factory-Fs.

Meanwhile, just a year ago, people were turning down the opportunity to buy brand-new 748Fs, to the point that the line is closing forever. UPS even turned down the chance to buy one of the last ones mid-Covid.

With our new president, fuel prices are intentionally going to be going up. The idea that there will be a long-term renaissance of my favorite aircraft is a dream, but not one that I would spend actual money to pursue.

People are entitled to make crazy bets on things, and people are entitled to spend their own money the way they want (at least for now), but Boondoggle doesn't even begin to describe what this seems like.
 
V6Aveo
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:50 pm

Sorry if this has been posted somewhere else, but how much changed in the conversion process from the 747-100 to -200 to -300 to -400? I know that the -8 had a number of major changes to pretty much every system while the other models were a bit more evolutionary, but I'd assume that Boeing did the work to prep the -8i for conversion (and didn't they at least offer a combi version to KLM?) and probably have/had a plan for how a conversion process would go. I again don't have nearly the knowledge of most people here, but the Big Twin seems to be a whole different ball game compared to a potential -8i conversion, as the 747 has always had freight in its DNA while there isn't the same legacy engineering in place for the 77W.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:56 am

V6Aveo: Could be right. Good points. Don't know the answer. Still seems weird for some plane broker to basically say, "I have a 747-800BCF here for ya."

To expound a bit on my thought, because it wasn't that clear, is that one is planning into a murky-future if one gets aboard.

First, how long will it take to certify such an aircraft? Isn't the gogogogogo time right-this-second?

Second, one alternative option is to pick up a 747-200F and send it for two months to CGK, after which I will have a completely-fliable, certifiable, reasonably-reliable aircraft for a few million dollars that I can use right away and park again without regrets if the music stops on this game of musical freight chairs. It's got plenty of capacity to do most of what anyone would want a 747 freighter for, and boxes don't care if I have to make a fuel stop. Yeah, getting some reliable engines on her is going to increase the cost-per-hour (because that's how I'm gonna lease them), but at today's fuel prices things aren't going to be too awful in that realm. I don't mind the higher operating cost of the whole combo, because the cost to play isn't that high, and she will be in demand, at least for the moment, if I can show brokers that I'm able to operate her at least as reliably as Western Global operates its MD11s. :duck:

This other venture seems more-likely-destined, if anywhere, to a place where people either have more money than sense or have a specific defineable need that they want to fill and somehow know they're going to need the lift for. And they need that much lift, volume and range, and they're going to need it continuously for a long, long time. Maybe such an operation exists somewhere. I guess we'll see.
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:16 am

wjcandee wrote:
V6Aveo: Could be right. Good points. Don't know the answer. Still seems weird for some plane broker to basically say, "I have a 747-800BCF here for ya."

To expound a bit on my thought, because it wasn't that clear, is that one is planning into a murky-future if one gets aboard.

First, how long will it take to certify such an aircraft? Isn't the gogogogogo time right-this-second?

Second, one alternative option is to pick up a 747-200F and send it for two months to CGK, after which I will have a completely-fliable, certifiable, reasonably-reliable aircraft for a few million dollars that I can use right away and park again without regrets if the music stops on this game of musical freight chairs. It's got plenty of capacity to do most of what anyone would want a 747 freighter for, and boxes don't care if I have to make a fuel stop. Yeah, getting some reliable engines on her is going to increase the cost-per-hour (because that's how I'm gonna lease them), but at today's fuel prices things aren't going to be too awful in that realm. I don't mind the higher operating cost of the whole combo, because the cost to play isn't that high, and she will be in demand, at least for the moment, if I can show brokers that I'm able to operate her at least as reliably as Western Global operates its MD11s. :duck:

This other venture seems more-likely-destined, if anywhere, to a place where people either have more money than sense or have a specific defineable need that they want to fill and somehow know they're going to need the lift for. And they need that much lift, volume and range, and they're going to need it continuously for a long, long time. Maybe such an operation exists somewhere. I guess we'll see.


I'd like to think maybe these folks have some hyper-specific niche in mind, where the large upper deck can actually be useful, but nothing comes to mind. I just don't see it making sense.
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:33 am

wjcandee wrote:
V6Aveo: Could be right. Good points. Don't know the answer. Still seems weird for some plane broker to basically say, "I have a 747-800BCF here for ya."

To expound a bit on my thought, because it wasn't that clear, is that one is planning into a murky-future if one gets aboard.

First, how long will it take to certify such an aircraft? Isn't the gogogogogo time right-this-second?

Second, one alternative option is to pick up a 747-200F and send it for two months to CGK, after which I will have a completely-fliable, certifiable, reasonably-reliable aircraft for a few million dollars that I can use right away and park again without regrets if the music stops on this game of musical freight chairs. It's got plenty of capacity to do most of what anyone would want a 747 freighter for, and boxes don't care if I have to make a fuel stop. Yeah, getting some reliable engines on her is going to increase the cost-per-hour (because that's how I'm gonna lease them), but at today's fuel prices things aren't going to be too awful in that realm. I don't mind the higher operating cost of the whole combo, because the cost to play isn't that high, and she will be in demand, at least for the moment, if I can show brokers that I'm able to operate her at least as reliably as Western Global operates its MD11s. :duck:

This other venture seems more-likely-destined, if anywhere, to a place where people either have more money than sense or have a specific defineable need that they want to fill and somehow know they're going to need the lift for. And they need that much lift, volume and range, and they're going to need it continuously for a long, long time. Maybe such an operation exists somewhere. I guess we'll see.


My friend, yet again spot on analysis. If we ever meet, the first and now second round is on me. Overall, the pitch doesn't make sense. It's as if someone who doesn't know what they are talking about threw words out on a sales flier. How can a 747-400BCF door be put on a 747-8i and poof, their you go a P2F conversion?!?! Time will tell but it is strange indeed.

Your statements on picking up 747-200Fs and running them through CGK is the ticket. Cheaper to buy, get in the air and run for as long as you can. I think you could get a good 3-7 years out of certain parked 747-200Fs. I was talking to a person today who had insight on Macedonia. The -19 is still hitting them hard. No vaccines etc. I don't see all of the world "juggernauting" back from this and I believe airfreight is here for quite some time as King Kong. You can run your 747-200Fs for years as the world pax fleet regains steam, capacity and quantity of flights. During that time, save your pennies and when the D check rears its head, park your old warhorse and buy a used 747-400F or maybe an early production 777F as a replacement.
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:22 am

CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
V6Aveo: Could be right. Good points. Don't know the answer. Still seems weird for some plane broker to basically say, "I have a 747-800BCF here for ya."

To expound a bit on my thought, because it wasn't that clear, is that one is planning into a murky-future if one gets aboard.

First, how long will it take to certify such an aircraft? Isn't the gogogogogo time right-this-second?

Second, one alternative option is to pick up a 747-200F and send it for two months to CGK, after which I will have a completely-fliable, certifiable, reasonably-reliable aircraft for a few million dollars that I can use right away and park again without regrets if the music stops on this game of musical freight chairs. It's got plenty of capacity to do most of what anyone would want a 747 freighter for, and boxes don't care if I have to make a fuel stop. Yeah, getting some reliable engines on her is going to increase the cost-per-hour (because that's how I'm gonna lease them), but at today's fuel prices things aren't going to be too awful in that realm. I don't mind the higher operating cost of the whole combo, because the cost to play isn't that high, and she will be in demand, at least for the moment, if I can show brokers that I'm able to operate her at least as reliably as Western Global operates its MD11s. :duck:

This other venture seems more-likely-destined, if anywhere, to a place where people either have more money than sense or have a specific defineable need that they want to fill and somehow know they're going to need the lift for. And they need that much lift, volume and range, and they're going to need it continuously for a long, long time. Maybe such an operation exists somewhere. I guess we'll see.


My friend, yet again spot on analysis. If we ever meet, the first and now second round is on me. Overall, the pitch doesn't make sense. It's as if someone who doesn't know what they are talking about threw words out on a sales flier. How can a 747-400BCF door be put on a 747-8i and poof, their you go a P2F conversion?!?! Time will tell but it is strange indeed.

Your statements on picking up 747-200Fs and running them through CGK is the ticket. Cheaper to buy, get in the air and run for as long as you can. I think you could get a good 3-7 years out of certain parked 747-200Fs. I was talking to a person today who had insight on Macedonia. The -19 is still hitting them hard. No vaccines etc. I don't see all of the world "juggernauting" back from this and I believe airfreight is here for quite some time as King Kong. You can run your 747-200Fs for years as the world pax fleet regains steam, capacity and quantity of flights. During that time, save your pennies and when the D check rears its head, park your old warhorse and buy a used 747-400F or maybe an early production 777F as a replacement.


I’m just gonna wait to see proof on this one, but also I’m not holding my breath. With the entirety of the -i production run, a conversion is possible but in my mind not without “de-SUD-Ing” the pax frames to the short upper deck. It was manageable to haul around on the previous generation 747 freighters but just too much weight and drag on the super long one on the I.
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:21 am

CX747 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
747classic wrote:
I was searching the internet for : 747-8 for sale
Found : https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft
Asking price : $95.000.000
Most probably, this must be L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065, F/F May-30-2012, stored at Basel (BSL) with registration N458BJ.
Remarkable are the airframe notes :
- Brand new 747-8 in factory green configuration.
- Only has 40 hours 18 landings since new.
- Aircraft will be delivered with a 747-400BCF Cargo door installed ??
- Can be converted to a full freighter after the door installation.
- GE Genx-2B Engines

If this adv is true, then this could be the first 747-8I P-F conversion.


Interesting. Are BCFs being offered still? Or is this a new not-public program that Boeing is engaging in?


...

The owners claim to be outside of LA, with the aircraft stationed their also. I'm in CA a few weeks from now, maybe I can slide on over and take a peek. I believe there was an in depth discussion on the 747-8i a while back where truly the P2F program could only be 40+ aircraft max.

...

A fun fact when going down the 747-8i rabbit hole was the BCF cargo door photo. If one looks closely enough, the 747 in the background of the photo looks to be one of Aerostan's 747-200Fs.


Not to be pedantic, but she's in Basel. Not sure why they listed the location as Rolling Hills Estates, California, but then again their cover photo is a 744F so I wouldn't call them the most reliable with their listing info. :duck: If you're in Cali in a few weeks, the EVA/Future Western Global 744Fs may be worth checking out though.

Here's a google maps image of her at BSL:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5922673 ... !1e3?hl=en

On a side note, I really love the discussion and analysis on this thread, everyone's contributing some great info as always! :D
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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Swiss03
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:21 am

Hi all,
On the topic of that ill-fated 748, as a member of this group that lives in close vicinity to basel, over the years I have had a few chances to talk to some airport personnel and get some info on this bird,
From what I can gather, it was ordered by and belonged to Sultan bin Abdulaziz of saudi arabia and was to be registered HZ-HMS1, on behalf of the saudi gov. Jetaviation in Basel took delivery of it for cabin outfitting, however shortly before beginning the process the sultan died and the subsequent prince chose not to accept any payment request for the aircraft or the cabin outfitting, there is. still an ongoing lawsuit in swiss courts regarding payments for cabin fittings.
I highly doubt that this bird is even flight worthy since nobody is paying for maintenance, sadly this could become another Great wall airlines 747-400F situation.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:54 am

CX747 wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
It looks like N705AA, the former Asia Pacific 727 which was sitting in Barbados, has made it to NBO in Astral colors https://www.instagram.com/p/CNsedewsmXy ... _copy_link). New registration is 5Y-NIV. The last flight that I have been able to track was the ferry from OPF to BGI in January, so I'm not quite sure when it got to NBO. Looks like they're using the 727's (5Y-MWM is pictured on their Instagram) for vaccine flights from Mumbai to Sana'a, Yemen. Their 727s are rather difficult to track though, unfortunately.


Glad to see that 727 move on from Barbados. I was beginning to think the deal fell through.

One of the carriers we haven't discussed here did not get the memo that the cool cats fly old metal.

Silkway West Airlines out of Azerbaijan, runs 747-400Fs and 747-8Fs. They just bought 5 brand spankin new 777Fs. I love the old metal but it will be fun to see how Aerotranscargo, Aerostan and GEO Sky move forward in the next 3-5 years with fleet planning. I personally think the 747-200Fs continue on for 3-5 years at least.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 78355.html


Great to see that 727 up and running. Another one I've found flying regularly in the region the last few months is Safe Air 5Y-IRE, sistership of 5Y-GMA. A nice little fleet building up on the Kenyan registry.

I also was interested in the Silkway 77F acquisition. Baku is well placed as a connecting hub isn't it, with a strong and growing region to it's south to supplement the Europe-Asia lines. Terra Avia are having a good time of it with their two jumbos out of GYD.

I also agree with much of what has been said about capacity and the years-long gap before bellyhold capacity in many markets reaches any consistency. I sense that shippers will grab and pay premiums for reliable flying lines and capacity for many years. I'm in SYD tonight having dinner and watching the ramp, and it highlights this perfectly. AU/NZ are remote geographically, are safe but experiencing very slow vaccine rollouts, and both governments are reluctant to open international borders to anything but safe zones anytime soon. Further to that, AU has just halted all pax repatriation services from India for at least three weeks (thoughts with our Indian friends, fabulous country), including banning indirect traffic via the Middle East for example. Perishables exporters, pharma and ecommerce can't utilise belly capacity with the prospect of that remaining in play in various regions for many years.

To put it in perspective, tonight at international SYD has a handful of ME3 and Asian pax 777s, but on the freight ramp 2x FX 77Fs, a Kalitta 77F for DHL, UPS 748, SQ 744F and CX 748F recently departed, a couple of local 763Fs and my favourite 31-years young Kalitta (for DHL) 744BCF. Nearly one for one, and for a decade SYD hasn't pursued dedicated freighters for taking up slots. My how times have changed.

I also found this interesting re: Aquiline buying some ex-Transaero 744s. Anyone have an inside line on their potential for possible P2F conversion?
https://simpleflying.com/transaero-747s-uae/
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:21 am

Another quick one, I saw a note on another page from a WGN pilot saying that the last 3 LH MD11s are going to WGN. Is that confirmed and I’ve missed it, or new news?
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:32 am

DLNZ wrote:
Another quick one, I saw a note on another page from a WGN pilot saying that the last 3 LH MD11s are going to WGN. Is that confirmed and I’ve missed it, or new news?


I thought they were going to UPS. Interesting. So, yeah, it's new news. I feel sorry for those poor planes, given that there are presently 3 WGN MD11s in various states of repair at SHV, where they have sat for nearly-1-year to nearly-3 years. The last LH MD11 that went to WGN never flew. It's still at SHV almost 3 years later. Sad. An inauspicious end for these fine birds. At least the Neffs seem finally to have given up on their "We'll fix everything ourselves!! Even if we never finish!!" plan. I'm assuming that N412SN ferrying to TPE means that it is getting a heavy-check there. Good. Just 3 more to go.

WGN was in a remarkable position to benefit from the sudden demand for freighters, and instead the state of repair of their fleet has dramatically held them back. The people that work there are exceptionally-nice, so it's unfortunate that their leadership has stumbled so much.

FWIW, they are definitely getting another 744F out of storage. Don't know how long that's going to take.

The big winner here has been tiny Sky Lease, which continues to amaze with the utilization that it gets from its two 744 Factory-Fs.

In second place is tiny Skybus of Peru, which secured really its first regular American gig (maybe even its first regular gig) for OB-2059-P, our favorite DC8-73CF, which has been operating reliably basically-daily for Amerijet for many months now. Some other ad-hoc charter operators (KII, TSU) who tried to put their classic aircraft on track charters haven't fared as well.
Last edited by wjcandee on Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:01 am, edited 10 times in total.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:48 am

WGN Fleet state of repair. It's improving, but they continue to have regular and random issues:

411SN Fedex
412SN TPE since 3/28
415JN Was broken in SJU since 4/17 on a Fedex mission. Ferried 4/28 from SJU to MEM.
512JN Fedex
513 SN Broken in ICN
581JN Flying LAX-Asia
799JN Fedex
542KD Military. Sandbox.
543JN Fedex.
545JN Asia-ORD
435KD SHV since 5/3/20. Desert before that.
546JN SHV since 5/23/20. Flying actively before that.
804SN SHV since 6/29/18. Acquired after LH retirement. Never flew in revenue service.

344KD Flying
356KD Flying
258SN At ORD for two days.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:53 pm

Looks like the former Virgin 747-400 headed to Longtail as VQ-BZV is headed to STN from TLV today (https://twitter.com/747GVROS/status/138 ... 68548?s=20). It only arrived at TLV in December, so I'm not sure what all was done by IAI in it's stay at TLV
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:03 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Looks like the former Virgin 747-400 headed to Longtail as VQ-BZV is headed to STN from TLV today (https://twitter.com/747GVROS/status/138 ... 68548?s=20). It only arrived at TLV in December, so I'm not sure what all was done by IAI in it's stay at TLV


VQ-BZV, no signs of any structural modifications, SCD, tension ties, etc
Also according the photographer no P2F conversion was made.

Image

Original uploaded by Asafg11 at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/asafg11/status/1387760768213475341
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:22 pm

747classic wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
Looks like the former Virgin 747-400 headed to Longtail as VQ-BZV is headed to STN from TLV today (https://twitter.com/747GVROS/status/138 ... 68548?s=20). It only arrived at TLV in December, so I'm not sure what all was done by IAI in it's stay at TLV


VQ-BZV, no signs of any structural modifications, SCD, tension ties, etc
Also according the photographer no P2F conversion was made.

Image

Original uploaded by Asafg11 at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/asafg11/status/1387760768213475341


At that point, it looks like all IAI did is remove the Virgin Atlantic titles (minus "Ruby Tuesday") and paint a new registration (at least from what we can see in the pictures and have been informed of)!
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:48 pm

So she's either a paxargo or this was a C/D check and she's gonna fly pax charter for Longtail? She was at TLV for 4 months.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So she's either a paxargo or this was a C/D check and she's gonna fly pax charter for Longtail? She was at TLV for 4 months.


I'm going to guess the former; I don't see much of a pax charter market for them. Wamos went kaput with their 747, and the only other pax charter 747 operator that I can think of is Atlas, which thrives off of DOD contracts (which Longtail doesn't have) and NFL charters (they won't be able to enter there). STN also makes me think that this will be a paxargo op. Guess they just pulled out the seats at TLV and maybe did a C check.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:26 pm

747classic wrote:
I was searching the internet for : 747-8 for sale
Found : https://www.controller.com/listing/for- ... t-aircraft
Asking price : $95.000.000
Most probably, this must be L/N 1446 - 747-8JA , RC004, serial number 40065, F/F May-30-2012, stored at Basel (BSL) with registration N458BJ.
Remarkable are the airframe notes :
- Brand new 747-8 in factory green configuration.
- Only has 40 hours 18 landings since new.
- Aircraft will be delivered with a 747-400BCF Cargo door installed ??
- Can be converted to a full freighter after the door installation.
- GE Genx-2B Engines

If this adv is true, then this could be the first 747-8I P-F conversion.


Thanks 747Classic.
That site gets its share of sketchy listings imho and I assume some brokers are just trying to start conversations with other brokers with connections to money. also, If it is LN1446 is 95M a realistic price for a green 747-8i that would originally list above 300m? If it is the real asking price and authorized by the owner then the recent sale by Boeing of LN 1435 to a mystery buyer must have been at a really incredible discount. Why would that mystery purchaser even bother going to Boeing and just snap up LN1446 at a bargain price from the Saudi entity owner? Also why would any sane cargo operator spend 95M on a starting point before what will be a massive investment to create the worlds first 748 pax conversion. All the well informed comments on this site pretty well reason converting 748 pax is a very long shot. Plus Saudia has two stored 748Fs sitting at some price that would presumably be a lot less of a hassle to put into use. Lastly is there any code of ethics for air brokers representing they have reach to actual owners
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:18 am

N503AZ B763 wearing Amazon colors as ATN503, left ILN this afternoon for AFW. Cheers!
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:13 am

wjcandee wrote:
So she's either a paxargo or this was a C/D check and she's gonna fly pax charter for Longtail? She was at TLV for 4 months.


Would have to agree on the paxargo mods and C check for the latest grand lady to enter Longtail's fleet. Overall, she sat around for about a year since last operating for VS. Wonder how they were able to keep the "Scarlet Lady". She was always a classy touch to the fleet. Glad to see it continues on as a nice tradition elsewhere.
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:55 am

Spacepope wrote:
travaz wrote:
My son drives an OTR Semi and the drivers have told the Company they won't do Cargo at ORD. Drivers have had 12 to 36 hours waiting for loads. No wheels moving no money for the driver. The cargo at ORD is a very small part of thier business but it does highlight the problems.


So, what’s the issue causing the load delays?


cargo handlers have cut staff due to lack of volume coming in from pax flights.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:55 pm

Activity on another stored 747-200

"White Walker Holdings" has registered LN 828, a 742F of former Midex and Martinair pedigree. GE powered, it has been stored at SJH since 2014.

Info courtesy https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4
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MO11
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:37 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Activity on another stored 747-200

"White Walker Holdings" has registered LN 828, a 742F of former Midex and Martinair pedigree. GE powered, it has been stored at SJH since 2014.

Info courtesy https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4



And of course, you have to be a fan of Game of Thrones to recognize the name. Otherwise, just another lawyers office LLC.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:46 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Activity on another stored 747-200

"White Walker Holdings" has registered LN 828, a 742F of former Midex and Martinair pedigree. GE powered, it has been stored at SJH since 2014.

Info courtesy https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


I have operated that particular airframe (ex.PH-MCN), when working with Martinair.
The aircraft was the second last built 747-200F, the last of the last batch ordered by Air France, NTU and purchased direct from the factory by MP, built as a "half" 747-400, increased strength wing structure, modified tail hydraulics, etc
Further Increased MLW from 285,760 to 290.300 kgs.

Also the aircraft is certified ( IAS proportional T/E flaps 25/30 bleed back feature) to operate at higher zero fuel weights and MLW, increasing the max payload for operational reasons together with lowering the MTOW.

MZFW 268,0, MTOW 377.8, MLW 290.3
MZFW 268,1, MTOW 371.9, MLW 290,4
MZFW 279,8, MTOW 364.3, MLW 302,1
MZFW 282,0, MTOW 362,9, MLW 302.1

Data from the original MP 747 Operational Manual from my archive.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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