Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5855
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:39 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

I avoid DFW like the plague. Never been there, DAL yes.


A pretty dumb statement to say if you’ve never been there. You have no legitimate reason to avoid it like a plague.


DFW doesn't seem to handle weather issues all that well. And SkyTrain or no, it looks like a sprawled out mess to me. But thank you for inferring my illegitimate dumbness. :sarcastic:
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
superjeff
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:41 pm

Chuska wrote:
When DFW first opened in 1974, there were four "hub" airlines each using one of the four horseshoe terminals; Braniff used 2W (now terminal B), Texas International used 2E (now A), American was at 3E (now C), and Delta was at 4E, (now E). There weren't many other airlines there yet (before deregulation). Eastern was in 3E with AA, I don't remember where Continental, Frontier, Mexicana, and the other few were at. In 1982 when Braniff collapsed and Texas International merged into Continental (dehubbing DFW), AA started expanding into 2E and all the other carriers except Delta moved into 2W along with the many new airlines that came after deregulation. In the late 80's, Delta expanded by building their satellite off terminal E. With all the mergers in the late 80's, many gates opened up in terminal B and after AA had filled up terminals A and C they started expanding into B, eventually making it all American Eagle. Now Eagle has outgrown B and expanded into E including Delta's old satellite.

There is a good book on the history of DFW published by Arcadia. I'm surprised Arcadia published this book as they normally focus on really old places but I'm sure glad they did. The book does talk a lot about DFW's predecessor, Amon Carter Field/Great Southwest International Airport, which was located just south of DFW. This was a very busy airport in the 1950's and 1960's, mainly serving Fort Worth.



Continental was in 4E, with Delta, at Gates 1-4 (or 5). Frontier and Ozark in 2E with Texas International. Mexicana in 2W with Braniff; later on TWA was also in 2E with TI, OZ, and FR (even before TWA acquired Ozark). Korean originally was in 2W, along with BCAL (before the BA merger), and Lufthansa. Sabena flew BRU-DFW-BRU into Terminal A (usually Gate 2I think), and code shared with AA. Not sure about which others were around then (my mind is a bit fuzzy :-( .
 
Antarius
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:45 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

I avoid DFW like the plague. Never been there, DAL yes.


A pretty dumb statement to say if you’ve never been there. You have no legitimate reason to avoid it like a plague.


DFW doesn't seem to handle weather issues all that well. And SkyTrain or no, it looks like a sprawled out mess to me. But thank you for inferring my illegitimate dumbness. :sarcastic:


No offense, but your comments about Skytrain aren't accurate at all. What on earth does "looks like a sprawled out mess" even mean? If you try it and hate it, I'd understand.

Seems like someone is grinding an axe here.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:52 pm

mga707 wrote:
SeattleAviation wrote:
Unfortunately, in all my years traveling through DFW, I don’t think I ever saw a single 747. Odd for one of the largest airports in the world.


You're too young. AA had 747 flights into DFW as late as 1984, when their remaining 747s were 'swapped' for Pan Am's ex-National DC-10s. I've got photos of AA 747s at DFW from both the 70s and early '80s. Belive DFW-HNL was the last route flown by the 747 from DFW. And, of course, Braniff had their sole 747 ('Big Orange') flying that same route every day from the airport's opening in January 1974 until their end in 1982. Joined by a few other BN 747s following the start of deregulation at the end of 1978. I also recall seeing a few Delta 747s operating scheduled flights to ATL/LAX in the mid-'70s. Have a few shots of those as well.


AA was flying the 747 in/out of DFW later than 1984. It acquired 2 ex-TWA 747SPs to operate DFW-NRT and those jets flew into and out of DFW until they were reassigned to JFK-LHR when AA began operations at LHR in July 1991.
 
Chuska
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:05 pm

lx2iah wrote:
Here’s a couple more that I remember...
AA 7 / AA 8 were the 747 flight numbers DFW-HNL-DFW
AA 5 / AA 6 were the D10 flight numbers DFW-HNL-DFW
This was approximately May / June 1984 because we took a trip to Hawaii and flew AA 7 / 8 to / from Honolulu around this time.

How about the AA Eagle Convair 580 service they had from
DFW? I flew from DFW to Tyler (TYR) to Longview (GGG) (and return) in ‘85 or ‘86 and have to say those were “unique” flights. I think the plane yawed (is that the correct terminology to use) from DFW to TYR the whole way because of thunderstorms in the area of our flight path. Never had the experience of almost flying “sideways” for 45 minutes. When we landed in Tyler, the rain was hitting the hot engine and evaporating almost instantly. What a trip!


The early days of American Eagle at DFW beginning in 1984 also saw DeHavilland Twin Otter's, Shorts-330's, Casa-212's, and Grumman Gulfstreams operated by both Metro and Chaparral Airlines.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5855
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:24 pm

Antarius wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:

A pretty dumb statement to say if you’ve never been there. You have no legitimate reason to avoid it like a plague.


DFW doesn't seem to handle weather issues all that well. And SkyTrain or no, it looks like a sprawled out mess to me. But thank you for inferring my illegitimate dumbness. :sarcastic:


No offense, but your comments about Skytrain aren't accurate at all. What on earth does "looks like a sprawled out mess" even mean? If you try it and hate it, I'd understand.

Seems like someone is grinding an axe here.


AA's operation is sprawled out over 5 terminals. Even with the SkyTrain, I am loathe to connect there. Peace out y'all.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
Antarius
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:44 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Antarius wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

DFW doesn't seem to handle weather issues all that well. And SkyTrain or no, it looks like a sprawled out mess to me. But thank you for inferring my illegitimate dumbness. :sarcastic:


No offense, but your comments about Skytrain aren't accurate at all. What on earth does "looks like a sprawled out mess" even mean? If you try it and hate it, I'd understand.

Seems like someone is grinding an axe here.


AA's operation is sprawled out over 5 terminals. Even with the SkyTrain, I am loathe to connect there. Peace out y'all.


Which, if you read what people who have actually been there have said, it isn't a problem with Skytrain.

I don't understand the need to comment on things that one has never experienced and have absolutely no idea about.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
ozark1
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:32 pm

I was based at DFW from 1978 until retirement earlier this year. Reading these posts brings back lots of memories, though some are vague. In the very beginning,AA had one large sitting area in 3E (Terminal C) with the thought that passengers would wait there until boarding was announced and then walk to the gate. Unfortunately I guess they hadn’t been to Love to watch the “herd mentality “ that was a part of WNs boarding process since no seats were assigned.
This being said, there were few if any seats at the AA gates since they thought very few would congregate there, or putting it another way...since they were trying to keep people from congregating there by having all the seats in the one large lounge.
This changed quickly and they re thought the whole terminal layout.
If I am remembering correctly, the bouncy, bumpy tram that went between all terminals was called something like Surtran, and it was kind of a joke (though probably not at the time) . This was the only way to get to DL or BN or any other airline. We also used them to go to the employee parking lot, which was extremely remote. If any of you have taken the underground tram at IAH, Surtran was a lot like it.
Then I remember at some point we took a mobile lounge like the ones at IAD to get from 3E ( now Terminal C) to 2E (Now Terminal A)
I have zero recollection when the moving walkways were installed between the 2 AA terminals. At the time, everything seemed sufficient and efficient. The Braniff terminal was, as expected, very modern, sleek and different. I always thought everything Braniff did to their terminals was very cool. If you didn’t have the opportunity to watch their large departure and arrival board at Love Field then you really missed out. I think there might be a short video of it somewhere on You Tube. This was before the age of computerized television screens. It was a “flip” style that was constantly changing right in front of your eyes. But I digress.
The Skylink is the best thing that ever happened to DFW, that and building a DART train line from Dallas to just outside Terminal A.
For aviation geeks, the view from Skylink is very panoramic and it is also fast. Nothing is fool-proof and I learned that the hard way one late evening after an enormous storm had come through. Skylink and the enormous escalators leading up and down from their stations were inoperative. So you were on your own to figure out how to get to another terminal.
There are ways to walk between A, B, C and D without going out of security if you are connecting . But not E (DL, UA, etc). They do have a bus system between all terminals but beside having to go out of security, the word I would use to describe it is primitive.
So in its heyday, Terminal 3E was the “showcase” Nice bright red carpeting that eventually became so dirty and gross that it was taken up and replaced by small, square floor tiles. The sound of my rollerboard suitcase “clink clink clink clink” along with hundreds of others is forever etched in my mind.
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago. Although I do not enjoy living in Dallas, I did like the base.
 
ZazuPIT
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:05 pm

I'm dating myself here, but IIRC, the dollar bill changers (back when there was such a thing) gave you only 95 cents in return. When I moved to the metroplex in the late 70s, I drove to the airport before I even moved into my first apartment. No telling how many times I traversed Int'l Pkwy back and forth that day.
 
departedflights
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:06 pm

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone mention Air New Zealand's late 1980s service... weekly 747 service on a London-Dallas/Fort Worth-Papeete-Auckland route.

Image

Image
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
mjba257
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:31 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

trAAin was before my time, but I've heard the horror stories.


trAAin was slow and worst of all, was not airside, meaning you had to reclear security. So basically, my only option was to walk. And when transferring from Eagle to mainline, that was not fun


Interesting, I did not know the trAAin was landside and not post-security. I had thought the regular DFW tram connected all terminals, and the trAAin was for 2E & 3E airside. When did AA construct the post-security connector between terminals 2E & 3E? I believe the overhead bridge to 2W (Terminal B) was built sometime in the late 90's.

For all the hate the semicircular terminals get on this forum, DFW is probably one of the easiest airports to traverse for locals, and the SkyLink enhances that status for connections.

Though DFW needs to work on improving DART light rail station access to the terminals. The TerminalLink bus is atrocious in frequency.


You hit the nail on the head their. DFW was designed to be an O&D airport. The concept was the minimize the distance between the parking garage and the gate and they've done that. But airport designers never intended the airport to become a major connecting hub. That's why SkyLink was built and completed in 2005 and it's made connecting at DFW far more convenient
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:39 pm

ozark1 wrote:
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago.

It still is.

While the DFW layout is more convenient for local passengers, the older terminals are kinda depressing in my opinion. They feel dark and cramped due to their design. Terminal D on the other hand is beautiful.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:45 pm

DFW is my top choice to connect through. The train is reliable and the operations are very smooth.

I much prefer connecting through DFW than MIA or CLT. I do miss those metal AA planes. Still my favorite livery.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:51 pm

B595 wrote:
B595 wrote:
Some rare finds back in the 87-89 timeframe (my time there) that were great to see:
Thai and Korean 747s
BCal DC-10-30s
AA 747 SPs
LH A340-200s
And I’ll second the DL L10s. There might even have been a -500 in the mix, but not sure about that.

Mea culpa on the LH A340-200s. That was later in the 90’s.

But according to departedflights, DL did indeed use an L1011-500 into DFW in the late 80’s timeframe. Apparently it was a domestic route, probably ATL, LAX, or HNL, because departedflights only lists Acapulco and Mexico city as DL international destinations at that time, and they wouldn’t have used it on those. Be curious if anyone knows.

Yep. I remember seeing a LH 747-200 in 1989. The first A340s did not come out until the early 90s.
.......
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:54 pm

mjba257 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
Thank god for the SkyTrain, 'cuz connecting at DFW used to be one big pain in the you-know-what.


trAAin was before my time, but I've heard the horror stories.


trAAin was slow and worst of all, was not airside, meaning you had to reclear security. So basically, my only option was to walk. And when transferring from Eagle to mainline, that was not fun


No, Airtrans was before security but TrAAns was behind security for 2E and 3E.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:02 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago.

It still is.

While the DFW layout is more convenient for local passengers, the older terminals are kinda depressing in my opinion. They feel dark and cramped due to their design. Terminal D on the other hand is beautiful.


My understanding was that C would be demolished once F was built. Obviously, this is pre-COVID, so who knows. the TRIP project spent some absurd amount of money on terminal A and
it was all downhill from there.

C is ghastly. Whoever decided that square tiles with grout spaces was a good idea should be shot. Nothing quite like hearing a hundred roller bags clacking across the tile.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Antarius
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:04 pm

william wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

trAAin was before my time, but I've heard the horror stories.


trAAin was slow and worst of all, was not airside, meaning you had to reclear security. So basically, my only option was to walk. And when transferring from Eagle to mainline, that was not fun


No, Airtrans was before security but TrAAns was behind security for 2E and 3E.


How did this work? Special carriages?
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2777
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:09 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
I would like to see more videos of the old terminal interior.


Check out Terminal C next trip thru DFW.... still has that vintage look. LOL :)
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:17 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I would like to see more videos of the old terminal interior.


Check out Terminal C next trip thru DFW.... still has that vintage look. LOL :)


I personally love earth tone colors , interior and exterior. Do not know who thought the white exterior on Terminal D would wear well in Texas.
Last edited by william on Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:20 pm

william wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I would like to see more videos of the old terminal interior.


Check out Terminal C next trip thru DFW.... still has that vintage look. LOL :)


I personally love earth tone colors , interior and exterior. Do not know who thought the white exterior on Terminal D would wear well in Texas.


D still looks better than C.

I don't mind earth tone colors, but they need to be done well. ABQ for example, leans in.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:28 pm

Antarius wrote:
william wrote:
mjba257 wrote:

trAAin was slow and worst of all, was not airside, meaning you had to reclear security. So basically, my only option was to walk. And when transferring from Eagle to mainline, that was not fun


No, Airtrans was before security but TrAAns was behind security for 2E and 3E.


How did this work? Special carriages?


The TrAAn was programmed to stop only at 2E and 3E and it stopped at the stations that had access from the secured side. You can still see the Airtran right of way at Terminals B and E.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:29 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:

It never had ‘thousands of daily operations’. That is QUITE the exaggeration.


OK, in the thousands as in over 1000 movements daily. Better?
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 897
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:36 pm

I went to college in Dallas ( Go Mustangs) in the late 80's, so I had many trips out to DFW during that time, either flying myself, or picking up/dropping off friends. Since I liked planes, friends knew I'd usually be willing to give them a ride to the airport, haha.
Things of that era I remember, both good and bad...the clickity clack of rolling luggage on the tiles in 3E. The moving walkways AA finally installed to get from 3E to 2E. Evening departure line-ups where the pilot would come on the PA and announce we were 15th in line for takeoff or something horrible like that. Remembering when DFW made the 4th busiest passenger volume airport in the world in maybe 1988. AA flying 747SP's to NRT before the MD-11's came into the fleet. Seeing LH and BCal DC-10 tails parked over at 2E in the late afternoon. There were also a few months (maybe in 1986?) when Northwest Orient flew 747's to SFO with same plane service to Asia. They had intro fares of $79 each way to SFO. I wanted to do that, but couldn't get any friends to ride along with me. It seemed like lots of small airlines that had only a couple flights per day were either at 2W or sometimes at the end of the DL gates in 4E.
One last thing...my family and I visited some family friends that lived in Dallas in summer of 1975. The Dad needed to fly to LGA for business towards the end of the week, and my Dad drove him out there with me riding along. In those days anyone could go past security, so I recall him flying a AA707 "LuxuryJet" to New York, and the clicking of the FIDS boards as they updated departures and arrivals.
 
mga707
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:44 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
mga707 wrote:
SeattleAviation wrote:
Unfortunately, in all my years traveling through DFW, I don’t think I ever saw a single 747. Odd for one of the largest airports in the world.


You're too young. AA had 747 flights into DFW as late as 1984, when their remaining 747s were 'swapped' for Pan Am's ex-National DC-10s. I've got photos of AA 747s at DFW from both the 70s and early '80s. Belive DFW-HNL was the last route flown by the 747 from DFW. And, of course, Braniff had their sole 747 ('Big Orange') flying that same route every day from the airport's opening in January 1974 until their end in 1982. Joined by a few other BN 747s following the start of deregulation at the end of 1978. I also recall seeing a few Delta 747s operating scheduled flights to ATL/LAX in the mid-'70s. Have a few shots of those as well.


AA was flying the 747 in/out of DFW later than 1984. It acquired 2 ex-TWA 747SPs to operate DFW-NRT and those jets flew into and out of DFW until they were reassigned to JFK-LHR when AA began operations at LHR in July 1991.


You are correct. I was specifically referring to AA's original 747-123 fleet. Those two ex-TW -SPs entered AA service in 1988, if memory serves. They were a 'stopgap' pending the delayed deliveries of AA's MD-11s.
Last edited by mga707 on Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mga707
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:48 pm

ZazuPIT wrote:
I'm dating myself here, but IIRC, the dollar bill changers (back when there was such a thing) gave you only 95 cents in return. When I moved to the metroplex in the late 70s, I drove to the airport before I even moved into my first apartment. No telling how many times I traversed Int'l Pkwy back and forth that day.


I well-remember that five cent 'kickback'! I also remember that it generated plenty of passenger complaints.
 
mga707
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:56 pm

When DFW opened in January 1974, the only scheduled international flights were to Mexico, on American, Braniff, and Mexicana. Customs was only in terminals 3E (AA's original terminal, now 'C') and 2W (Braniff and Mexicana), now 'B'.
 
User avatar
gdg9
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:56 pm

I love the Sky Train - I often get to DFW earlier so I can take the 20 minute loop around the airport, write down the tail numbers, and watch the action. Great vantage point.
@dfwtower
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:06 pm

Antarius wrote:
william wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:

Check out Terminal C next trip thru DFW.... still has that vintage look. LOL :)


I personally love earth tone colors , interior and exterior. Do not know who thought the white exterior on Terminal D would wear well in Texas.


D still looks better than C.

I don't mind earth tone colors, but they need to be done well. ABQ for example, leans in.


ABQ also has brick floors so you hear the roller bags as they hit grout lines. :stirthepot:
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
LAXLHR
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:13 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
LASVegan wrote:
The trAAin was unique for sure but the Skylink is far more useful and efficient.

Not to mention the unique view afforded by the Skylink. There aren’t many airports where you can get that look down view of the aircraft and observe airport operations from such a high vantage point.


Yes, the skylink views are spectacular. A plane spotters paradise being so high above all of the action.

The 90s DFW will always be special, but it's much better today. I passed through it in October, where they weirdly boarded our European flight through an A gate. It was very odd, considering LHR and other international flights were heading out of the D terminal. You want that international feel as you approach the gate, instead of feeling like you are going to PHX or TUL lol.

During this so called pandemic, it feels like at the airport, certain carriers go could care less. 40 passengers are just as important as a full flight...especially during these times.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA KL

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
737max8
Posts: 707
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:26 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago.

It still is.

While the DFW layout is more convenient for local passengers, the older terminals are kinda depressing in my opinion. They feel dark and cramped due to their design. Terminal D on the other hand is beautiful.


No, it sucks for local passengers.

Driving around the massive airport is a pain in the ass and the roads are confusing. If you depart and arrive at different terminals and check a bag it takes forever to get to your car waiting for a shuttle. Also good luck finding the right baggage claim if you land and can go left or right equal distances. Baggage claim and ticketing being on the same level is annoying and results in way longer walks than necessary.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
TXRoadMan
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:30 pm

737max8 wrote:
No, it sucks for local passengers.

I'd second that. It's easier to connect at DFW than O&D (at least if you're flying AA and parking a vehicle.)
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:34 pm

ozark1 wrote:
In the very beginning,AA had one large sitting area in 3E (Terminal C) with the thought that passengers would wait there until boarding was announced and then walk to the gate. Unfortunately I guess they hadn’t been to Love to watch the “herd mentality “ that was a part of WNs boarding process since no seats were assigned.
This being said, there were few if any seats at the AA gates since they thought very few would congregate there, or putting it another way...since they were trying to keep people from congregating there by having all the seats in the one large lounge.
This changed quickly and they re thought the whole terminal layout.


Thanks for sharing. I've seen pictures online of the consolidated waiting area and the hallways leading to the gates. The gates had wide overhead signs showing airline and destination, and a "traffic signal" showing if boarding had commenced.

You're right that this approach would not have worked out well without some sort of control for boarding and disembarking down the hallways, much like what you see with IAH Terminal B-South for UA Express flights.

From a Google Earth photo, I was able to make out what I think is the original boarding hallway. I've highlighted the boundary of the hallway using a red line. I presume AA had to infill the area between the hallways and the curbside to allow for the construction of waiting areas and concessions.

Image

In case the imgur jpeg link doesn't work:

DFW Terminal C with hallway outline

The legacy of the consolidated lounge still lives on when you see the elevated ceilings at the checkpoints as you walk through Terminal C. It's the only terminal of the four original semicircular terminals that have this feature.
 
TXRoadMan
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:37 pm

I don't know if anyone can answer this, but... If you look at the ends of the original terminals*, you can plainly see the concrete structure is the same as the interior cross-section, then they just put up metal panels between the concrete to form the outer wall. Was this a design decision (a budget-minded one, I would guess) or was there some expansion built-in to the design? Of course, I know about the 13(?) terminal ultimate design, but I've never seen anything about expanding/linking the terminals beyond the basic design that was built. (Given a full build-out, not what happened to High-C.) Low-A has a rotunda of sorts, but I'm guessing that was a part of the Eagle bus setup and not original.


*The Low-B end on the landside portion (the airside portion is covered up by the A/D connectors' corner) and both ends of E.
 
User avatar
msp747
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:06 pm

737max8 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago.

It still is.

While the DFW layout is more convenient for local passengers, the older terminals are kinda depressing in my opinion. They feel dark and cramped due to their design. Terminal D on the other hand is beautiful.


No, it sucks for local passengers.

Driving around the massive airport is a pain in the ass and the roads are confusing. If you depart and arrive at different terminals and check a bag it takes forever to get to your car waiting for a shuttle. Also good luck finding the right baggage claim if you land and can go left or right equal distances. Baggage claim and ticketing being on the same level is annoying and results in way longer walks than necessary.

This is 100% how I feel. I'm sure people who live in the Metroplex get used to it and it's second nature to them, but for a business traveler who is not based there, it can be maddening. I traveled a fair amount between DC and Dallas for my last job, and by the end I was sort of getting it, but you have to pay attention. Departures are on the bottom level, instead of the top like everywhere else, and you have to watch which ramp to go to since each goes to a different part of the terminal. The rental car facility is waaaay out there, which is to be expected at such a massive facility, but you need to plan for that taking awhile. Then I always had to pay a toll to go back and get my coworker at the terminal, since we traveled with a lot of gear and it would have been a huge pain to load it all onto the rental bus. And it may be just bad luck, but I feel like I've always encountered longer waits at security than other airports, even with Pre-Check (I've always checked in at C or E, so maybe the others are better).

As for connecting at DFW, it is actually very straightforward and easy these days. I have never had to go more than A to C or vice versa on the train, although I'm sure plenty have to go to B as well. I agree that there are few views as good as the one you get from the train. On more than one occasion, I've done a lap of the airport to enjoy the view while waiting for my next flight. My only reason for avoiding connecting at DFW is that it is usually too far out of my way (why fly so far south to then fly back north) and I have more loyalty with carriers other than AA. I get that travelers all have things they like and don't like. I regularly get flamed on the DC Airports thread for defending Dulles, which was my airport of choice when I lived in the area. I also love connecting at MSP, even though I've seen plenty of people complaining about that one.
 
N626AA
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:02 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:24 pm

Love reading everyone's time at/with DFW and those who posted memories.

Like many of you, I've had my fair share of AA md-80s in and out of DFW through the years. Earliest memories are around summer 2000 and '01 when my family and I made several trips throughout the US all connecting in DFW on AA and DL (when it was still a DL hub) Seeing AA and DL MD-11s, 727s, 767s, etc sure was a sight. I recall seeing a SABENA A330 landing as we waited for departure on a AA 757 back to AUS sometime in 2001. Most memorable flight was in march 2002 when my brother and I caught a DL 727 from SEA to DFW, we landed in the late evening light and nosed in next to a DL MD-11. Spent the rest of the evening walking the E terminal (pre-skytrain days) before hopping on a DL MD90 back to AUS.

I remember walking the A and C terminals when connecting on AA in '03-'04 when all the trijets were gone and it was a md-80 lovers paradise. Also remember seeing signs reading "skytrain coming in 2005" posted through out the terminals. Caught several AA 767s and 777s from DFW to and from LAX those years with my father when took spotting trips before he retired from AA.

I could go on and on up until my last trip through DFW in 2018 to catch one last AA md-80 flight but you get the point by now.

Thanks for the thread, made me think of some good memories I haven't thought of in a while.
A306 319 320 321 332 333 343 B722 733 734 735 737 738 744 752 762 763 772 773 DC93 DC1040 MD82/83/88 MD90 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 E140 E145/45X DHQ3 ATR7
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4216
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:08 pm

mga707 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
mga707 wrote:

You're too young. AA had 747 flights into DFW as late as 1984, when their remaining 747s were 'swapped' for Pan Am's ex-National DC-10s. I've got photos of AA 747s at DFW from both the 70s and early '80s. Belive DFW-HNL was the last route flown by the 747 from DFW. And, of course, Braniff had their sole 747 ('Big Orange') flying that same route every day from the airport's opening in January 1974 until their end in 1982. Joined by a few other BN 747s following the start of deregulation at the end of 1978. I also recall seeing a few Delta 747s operating scheduled flights to ATL/LAX in the mid-'70s. Have a few shots of those as well.


AA was flying the 747 in/out of DFW later than 1984. It acquired 2 ex-TWA 747SPs to operate DFW-NRT and those jets flew into and out of DFW until they were reassigned to JFK-LHR when AA began operations at LHR in July 1991.


You are correct. I was specifically referring to AA's original 747-123 fleet. Those two ex-TW -SPs entered AA service in 1988, if memory serves. They were a 'stopgap' pending the delayed deliveries of AA's MD-11s.


Got it. Thanks for clarifying. AA launched DFW-NRT in May 1987 with the 2 747SPs and yes, they were a stop gap until the MD11 arrived in 1991. Those two SP's were moved to JFK in 1991 for 2 JFK-LHR frequencies and eventually, one of the SP's briefly operated JFK-BRU for a period of around 6 months.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 pm

737max8 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
I’m not sure what progress has been made on modernizing C, but it was/is an outdated, congested, inefficient dump when I flew my last trip one year ago.

It still is.

While the DFW layout is more convenient for local passengers, the older terminals are kinda depressing in my opinion. They feel dark and cramped due to their design. Terminal D on the other hand is beautiful.


No, it sucks for local passengers.

Driving around the massive airport is a pain in the ass and the roads are confusing. If you depart and arrive at different terminals and check a bag it takes forever to get to your car waiting for a shuttle. Also good luck finding the right baggage claim if you land and can go left or right equal distances. Baggage claim and ticketing being on the same level is annoying and results in way longer walks than necessary.


As a non-local I’d always thought that it seemed so. But it has been unchallenged on here for so long that it is a convenient O&D airport that I figured I must be missing something.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2756
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:24 pm

I mostly fly though IAH, HOU, and AUS now. Back in the late 70's it was cool to see the Concordes parked at one of the gates in BN's terminal.
 
deebee278
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:14 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:44 pm

As a Pilot, I have great memories of DFW. As a passenger, not so much, though things got better as the years went by. I remember being bumped off a flight. My checked luggage made my planned flight just fine. Of course, when I finally arrived at DFW, I was deposited in one terminal. My bag was in another terminal a mile away. Regarding the old tram, I remember an accident where a transit passenger, laying over at the airport hotel went for a jog and decided that that the tram track would be the ideal place to get his exercise. May he rest in peace...Yes, he was killed.
 
User avatar
jscottwomack
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:44 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

I avoid DFW like the plague. Never been there, DAL yes.


A pretty dumb statement to say if you’ve never been there. You have no legitimate reason to avoid it like a plague.


DFW doesn't seem to handle weather issues all that well. And SkyTrain or no, it looks like a sprawled out mess to me. But thank you for inferring my illegitimate dumbness. :sarcastic:


While DFW may be spread out, it is very easy to navigate and change terminals. Not so sure about Sprawled Out Mess - have you ever been to and have to change terminals at ORD, JFK, SFO, MIA, MSP, STL, SEA, EWR, IAH, BOS, LAS? I would put those in a sprawled out mess that are very hard to navigate before DFW. Most of the airports I listed started with 1 terminal, then they built another that was completely different in size, shape and dimension from the original. When the 2nd terminal was done, they built a 3rd that was completely different from the 1st and 2nd. At least DFW was built with a Master Plan on how Terminals would be placed and they all follow the basics of the master plan. Yes the International Terminal is more of a box C shape than the other terminal curved C Shapes, but the idea is there. From Satellite Views, you can see where they currently have parking lots and the master plan is for future terminals that are the C Shape. If they continue to go the direction with C shape Terminals or scrap it for linear terminals is yet to be seen. Yes the International Terminal is more of a box C shape than the other terminal curved C Shapes, but the idea is there. All I am saying is try the airport before you decide to ever use it.

I fly all the time and prefer smaller airports and direct flights. If I have to change planes and I am on AA I want DFW. If I am flying Delta I go to ATL. If I am on United, Denver it is. Southwest.... Well you chances of changing planes in a new city are pretty good and if time is not a factor, I am taking that change of aircraft in a city I have not been to in a while. Adventure of seeing something new is the best part of Southwest.
TWA, Ozark, Braniff, Piedmont, USAir, American, Delta, Frontier, Midwest Express, Western, Eastern, Southwest, Northwest, PanAm, United, Mississippi Valley, Britt, Continental, Trans America, Midway, America West, National, American Trans Air, Sun Country
 
User avatar
kann123air
Posts: 1647
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:35 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:45 pm

My home away from home. Every moment spent in DFW is a happy one.

*cue AA's pre-merger safety video jingle*
Going for great
 
User avatar
jscottwomack
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:44 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:46 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I mostly fly though IAH, HOU, and AUS now. Back in the late 70's it was cool to see the Concordes parked at one of the gates in BN's terminal.


That is one of the few things I remember from when I was 7 years old and picking up family at DFW. It seemed like the nose was right up to the glass.
TWA, Ozark, Braniff, Piedmont, USAir, American, Delta, Frontier, Midwest Express, Western, Eastern, Southwest, Northwest, PanAm, United, Mississippi Valley, Britt, Continental, Trans America, Midway, America West, National, American Trans Air, Sun Country
 
User avatar
ATA L1011
Posts: 1319
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 6:47 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:51 pm

For a while before they closed the DFW hub, Delta flew DFW-FRA with an L1011-500; also flew DFW-HNL (I think with that airplane as well).[/quote]


In the mid 90 till the route was dropped the ATL-DFW-HNL and reverse route FLT 16/17 was up gauged and operated with the L-1011-250. The -500 before it was retired one of it's last rte's was ATL to DFW and back.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
departedflights
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:12 pm

ozark1 wrote:
In the very beginning,AA had one large sitting area in 3E (Terminal C) with the thought that passengers would wait there until boarding was announced and then walk to the gate.


I hope I am not breaking any rules by posting this....

I remember a there being a thread a few years back about DFW and LoneStarMike (who unfortunately no longer posts on here) included some old pictures of those large seating areas.

Here is a link to that thread from seven years ago. The photos can be found in reply # 24:

viewtopic.php?t=572757
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
User avatar
NOLAWildcat
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:14 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:33 pm

Golden Days at DFW is an appropriate title for my formative aviation memories from the early 90's onward. My dad typically used Southwest for his short business trips out of MSY to DAL and HOU, but usually flew American on the longer runs (back when Southwest was still concentrated mainly in an arc between Oakland down through Texas and up towards Chicago). When we traveled as a family 2-3 times a year, more often than not it was on AA, and usually via DFW.
For an aviation-mad kid living in New Orleans, where the daily 767-200s to ATL were "the heavies", a trip to DFW with its seemingly endless expanse of concrete, massive horseshoe terminals with the characteristic concrete light standards, and the large array of planes never seen at MSY including silver DC-10s, the occasional MD-11, Eagle Saabs and ATRs, and the shiny bare-metal ASA Brasilias was like a second Christmas morning. Heck, our plane even got to cross over a highway on a bridge!! (a wonderous concept to my 5-year old brain). My favorite were the Delta Tristars, which always seemed tantalizingly close as they taxied past the Terminal C gates where our Mad Dog to Reno, Salt Lake, or Hartford always seemed to be parked. Add in the ride on the TrAAin (which in hindsight with its jerky ride and unexpected stops must have driven my parents nuts on tighter connections) and it was always an event to look forward to.

When I was 23 and starting out with my first employer, the company had a 2 week orientation course at their HQ in Ft. Worth. I spent one gloriously sunny January Saturday at Founder's Plaza taking shots of arrivals and departures with a terrible Canon point and shoot camera and driving my car aimlessly around the property--I couldn't have been happier. To this day, when I get the option of connecting through DFW, Houston, or Denver on the way back home, if the prices are similar, I'll pick DFW.

As an adult, I can see why folks hated the clickity-clack of the tiles in C and the general cave-like ambience of A and C prior to the construction of SkyTrain and TRIP. The airport is far better to navigate and connect in nowadays than it was in 1993, but the older parts of DFW still bring a smile to my face.
 
departedflights
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:50 pm

NOLAWildcat wrote:
As an adult, I can see why folks hated the clickity-clack of the tiles in C


I remember the clickity-clack.... but that makes me ask the question:

Was that a D/FW Airport thing or was that an American Airlines thing?

I ask because I seem to recall the same type of flooring in Nashville on the concourse that American used as a hub many years ago.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:56 pm

Lots of points made by others on here..many jogged some good memories, others, well..( that trAAin" thing..talk about a stopgap measure..put togher with tape and baling wire. but enough on that.
I'd add that as best I recall my first time thru DFW was in the late 70's when there was AA 707's and DC 10's to a number of places. I recall more than anything a mix of these 2 types to PHX, LAX, SFO and even SAN. ( yes, 727 and 72S also to those points) . The contrast of Braniff's "Flying Colors" to the polished metal of AA was something to see on a bright Texas day. and yes, add in the mix of CO, TI, and a few others it was not bland.

A move to California in 86 coincided with the build up of MD 80 operations thru the late 80's and into the early 90's. between them and the 727s, T tails galore for decades at DFW. For about 25-28 yeras, work and family took me thru DFW easily n12-15 or more times per year..not nearly as much as many, but not occasionally either.
It still is one of my preferred airports to connect in.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:09 pm

Image

I think every frequentflyer has this postcard!

1. Yes kids, we used to fly widebodies (DC10s, L1011s and 767s) to domestic cities all the time.

2. Notice, not a 737 or A320 in sight.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:19 pm

mga707 wrote:
ZazuPIT wrote:
I'm dating myself here, but IIRC, the dollar bill changers (back when there was such a thing) gave you only 95 cents in return. When I moved to the metroplex in the late 70s, I drove to the airport before I even moved into my first apartment. No telling how many times I traversed Int'l Pkwy back and forth that day.

I well-remember that five cent 'kickback'! I also remember that it generated plenty of passenger complaints.


That (and, about the same time, the 25-cent charge to use a toilet) died about the time Southwest started making fun of it by programming the change machines at Love Field to dispense $1.05 in coins for every dollar bill that was changed,

It was just one of WN's brilliant marketing moves during that era.


william wrote:
ImageI think every frequentflyer has this postcard!
1. Yes kids, we used to fly widebodies (DC10s, L1011s and 767s) to domestic cities all the time.
2. Notice, not a 737 or A320 in sight.


That's an excellent portrayal of the DFW "concept": that a local traveler could drive to the airport, park his car, and walk to the gate - advertised as being "less than a 150-foot walk" from your car to your plane. Unfortunately for DFW, it was built just a few years before another concept - the "hub-and-spoke" system - came into play.

As they say, timing is everything...


:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Golden Days at DFW

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:23 pm

*bing-bong* *bing-bong*
"An American Airlines passenger service vehicle is approaching... please step aside"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos