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piedmontf284000
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Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 pm

A man was arrested on Saturday after he was found using a security key card for secure areas of O'Hare. He later admitted to have been living at the airport since October. He is even seen on video in one of the resteraunts cooking for himself after hours.

https://abc7chicago.com/ohare-airport-l ... an/9779198

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/adit ... index.html
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:12 pm

I thought Victor Navorski was at JFK? Maybe the SmartCarte returns pay more quarters in ORD.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:29 pm

If the badge was stolen why wasn’t it turned off?
 
bennett123
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:39 pm

Not just that.

Airport Police should have been briefed to watch out for that badge.
 
mga707
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:16 pm

Afraid to fly for fear of COVID, yet he's allegedly spent three months inside of a busy airport. His risk assessment skills are skewed...
 
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klm617
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:32 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Not just that.

Airport Police should have been briefed to watch out for that badge.


It just goes to show you that airport security is more a deterrent rather than a line of defense just like an empty patrol care parked next to the freeway.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Antarius
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:45 pm

TSA - burning money and invading privacy with no value since 2001
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jetmatt777
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:48 pm

klm617 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Not just that.

Airport Police should have been briefed to watch out for that badge.


It just goes to show you that airport security is more a deterrent rather than a line of defense just like an empty patrol care parked next to the freeway.


There is a certain level of reduced effectiveness the larger the airport, in some ways. When there are thousands of employees between dozens of companies at a large airport, you kind of don't care. I am not going to stop and look at every person's ID badge. I would literally not have time to do my job there are just so many people. You kind of go with the "if it looks right, it probably is right" method. A smaller airport, where everyone kind of knows everyone; it is easier to spot someone out of place. The inverse is true when it comes to parked cars and suspicious packages. I used to work in OKC, and once when I got out to my car I realized I left my phone at a table by the time clock behind the ticket counter. I got in my car, drove around to the departures level. Left my car, ran inside real quick, and was back in my car with my phone in the span of 30 seconds. No one noticed, no one cared. I work in DEN now, and if you even stop your car for more than 5 seconds without someone getting in or out the over-cautious rent-a-cops threaten to call security.

If he never went through any doors or ID checkpoints and simply used the badge as a prop to look like he belongs, I can totally see how he got away with it for so long. Again, in a busy airport like that if you have a badge around your neck and look like you belong, I am not going to come up to you and check it. Neither would police or security. There are just too many workers, no one would ever get anything done, everyone would just be walking around looking at everyone's ID.
 
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Polot
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:50 pm

Antarius wrote:
TSA - burning money and invading privacy with no value since 2001

Is this a failure of TSA or airport police (legitimate question)? TSA clears passengers, whose job is it to make sure passengers are not camping out and living in the secure area and getting into secure areas?
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:19 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
If the badge was stolen why wasn’t it turned off?


When I worked at ORD, badges required a swipe and a personal code to activate any secure door. It appears that he might have just found the ID and wore it. There is no way an individual without a uniform, looking like a homeless person, would ever be able to wander around in a secure (employees only) portion of the airport on a regular basis. Tribune article has a mug shot.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

"Hagerty said Singh reportedly found the badge in the airport and was “scared to go home due to COVID.” She told the judge other passengers were giving him food.

Singh lives in the Los Angeles suburb of Orange with roommates and does not have a criminal background, according to Assistant Public Defender Courtney Smallwood. She said he has a master’s degree in hospitality and is unemployed."

ORD terminals technically close late at night and re-open around 5 or 5:30 AM or so it's possible he just stowed away somewhere in the public areas of the terminals during the time they were closed which would account for the criminal trespassing charge.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:28 pm

"Aditya Udai Singh, 33"

33? I saw the picture and assumed 53.

Strange situation. OK so you're scared of flying all of a sudden. You opted not to rent a car or get bus/train tickets, opted not to get a hotel room, just decided to stay in the terminal?
 
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klm617
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:42 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Not just that.

Airport Police should have been briefed to watch out for that badge.


It just goes to show you that airport security is more a deterrent rather than a line of defense just like an empty patrol care parked next to the freeway.


There is a certain level of reduced effectiveness the larger the airport, in some ways. When there are thousands of employees between dozens of companies at a large airport, you kind of don't care. I am not going to stop and look at every person's ID badge. I would literally not have time to do my job there are just so many people. You kind of go with the "if it looks right, it probably is right" method. A smaller airport, where everyone kind of knows everyone; it is easier to spot someone out of place. The inverse is true when it comes to parked cars and suspicious packages. I used to work in OKC, and once when I got out to my car I realized I left my phone at a table by the time clock behind the ticket counter. I got in my car, drove around to the departures level. Left my car, ran inside real quick, and was back in my car with my phone in the span of 30 seconds. No one noticed, no one cared. I work in DEN now, and if you even stop your car for more than 5 seconds without someone getting in or out the over-cautious rent-a-cops threaten to call security.

If he never went through any doors or ID checkpoints and simply used the badge as a prop to look like he belongs, I can totally see how he got away with it for so long. Again, in a busy airport like that if you have a badge around your neck and look like you belong, I am not going to come up to you and check it. Neither would police or security. There are just too many workers, no one would ever get anything done, everyone would just be walking around looking at everyone's ID.


There should be no excuses big or small airport. If the airport can not be secured as it was meant to then perhaps their level of service should be reduced or slot controlled. We can't just say it's to big to be 100% effective and accept that as being OK.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Jshank83
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:51 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
If the badge was stolen why wasn’t it turned off?


When I worked at ORD, badges required a swipe and a personal code to activate any secure door. It appears that he might have just found the ID and wore it. There is no way an individual without a uniform, looking like a homeless person, would ever be able to wander around in a secure (employees only) portion of the airport on a regular basis. Tribune article has a mug shot.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

"Hagerty said Singh reportedly found the badge in the airport and was “scared to go home due to COVID.” She told the judge other passengers were giving him food.

Singh lives in the Los Angeles suburb of Orange with roommates and does not have a criminal background, according to Assistant Public Defender Courtney Smallwood. She said he has a master’s degree in hospitality and is unemployed."

ORD terminals technically close late at night and re-open around 5 or 5:30 AM or so it's possible he just stowed away somewhere in the public areas of the terminals during the time they were closed which would account for the criminal trespassing charge.


But whoever it was stolen from should have reported it (in order to get a replacement) and the original badge should have been turned off and not worked anymore. That should be standard operating procedure anywhere, especially an airport. But I guess if he never used it and just piggybacked at doors it would be possible.
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:59 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
If the badge was stolen why wasn’t it turned off?


When I worked at ORD, badges required a swipe and a personal code to activate any secure door. It appears that he might have just found the ID and wore it. There is no way an individual without a uniform, looking like a homeless person, would ever be able to wander around in a secure (employees only) portion of the airport on a regular basis. Tribune article has a mug shot.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

"Hagerty said Singh reportedly found the badge in the airport and was “scared to go home due to COVID.” She told the judge other passengers were giving him food.

Singh lives in the Los Angeles suburb of Orange with roommates and does not have a criminal background, according to Assistant Public Defender Courtney Smallwood. She said he has a master’s degree in hospitality and is unemployed."

ORD terminals technically close late at night and re-open around 5 or 5:30 AM or so it's possible he just stowed away somewhere in the public areas of the terminals during the time they were closed which would account for the criminal trespassing charge.


But whoever it was stolen from should have reported it (in order to get a replacement) and the original badge should have been turned off and not worked anymore. That should be standard operating procedure anywhere, especially an airport. But I guess if he never used it and just piggybacked at doors it would be possible.


Did he have to swipe his badge again after initially entering the secure area? He could have used it before it was reported stolen, then never needed to swipe again as he was already in the secure zone.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:10 pm

klm617 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

It just goes to show you that airport security is more a deterrent rather than a line of defense just like an empty patrol care parked next to the freeway.


There is a certain level of reduced effectiveness the larger the airport, in some ways. When there are thousands of employees between dozens of companies at a large airport, you kind of don't care. I am not going to stop and look at every person's ID badge. I would literally not have time to do my job there are just so many people. You kind of go with the "if it looks right, it probably is right" method. A smaller airport, where everyone kind of knows everyone; it is easier to spot someone out of place. The inverse is true when it comes to parked cars and suspicious packages. I used to work in OKC, and once when I got out to my car I realized I left my phone at a table by the time clock behind the ticket counter. I got in my car, drove around to the departures level. Left my car, ran inside real quick, and was back in my car with my phone in the span of 30 seconds. No one noticed, no one cared. I work in DEN now, and if you even stop your car for more than 5 seconds without someone getting in or out the over-cautious rent-a-cops threaten to call security.

If he never went through any doors or ID checkpoints and simply used the badge as a prop to look like he belongs, I can totally see how he got away with it for so long. Again, in a busy airport like that if you have a badge around your neck and look like you belong, I am not going to come up to you and check it. Neither would police or security. There are just too many workers, no one would ever get anything done, everyone would just be walking around looking at everyone's ID.


There should be no excuses big or small airport. If the airport can not be secured as it was meant to then perhaps their level of service should be reduced or slot controlled. We can't just say it's to big to be 100% effective and accept that as being OK.


In order for what you want, you would need hundreds or even thousands of extra security guards roaming every inch of an airport. Your expectations are not realistic. The bigger the airport, the more likely incidents like this can go unnoticed. It wasn't a security breach, he entered legally. There's really not much he could have done to sabotage anything, as there are other measures in place to prevent someone with a badge from entering the ramp, on airplanes, etc. He had a stolen ID, which is serious, but without knowing how to use it or knowing the unique codes required to use it he couldn't have gone anywhere.

Clearly he eventually gained enough attention to be confronted, so the system did work.
 
bennett123
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:21 pm

It only took three months.

So saying that 'the system worked' is stretching things a bit.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:44 pm

Polot wrote:
Antarius wrote:
TSA - burning money and invading privacy with no value since 2001

Is this a failure of TSA or airport police (legitimate question)? TSA clears passengers, whose job is it to make sure passengers are not camping out and living in the secure area and getting into secure areas?


It would be the airport authority who has responsibility over badges and employees. TSA is not responsible for airport badges. I believe it would be the Chicago Department of Aviation
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:45 pm

It's not like this guy was in the airport for just 3 days. It was 3 months. His hygiene would have definitely suffered-you only can get so "clean" washing up in a sink. Not to mention it's not like he had access to a washer and dryer I get the "big airport" meme but come on after a month this guy had to be very noticeable just from a lack of "hygiene" aspect, not to mention he must have had the "bugged out" look from lack of proper sleep. I get grossed out just thinking about being unshowered or 3 months on end.

I you've ever been an airport late at night (like I have) you know there's cleaning crews everywhere, all kinds of noise from cleaning machinery and the announcements (to nobody) are non stop. Not exactly a recipe for sleep.
 
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:01 pm

bennett123 wrote:
It only took three months.

So saying that 'the system worked' is stretching things a bit.

Exactly. I doubt there will be a report.

That is a problem.
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alfa164
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:34 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
If he never went through any doors or ID checkpoints and simply used the badge as a prop to look like he belongs, I can totally see how he got away with it for so long. Again, in a busy airport like that if you have a badge around your neck and look like you belong, I am not going to come up to you and check it. Neither would police or security. There are just too many workers, no one would ever get anything done, everyone would just be walking around looking at everyone's ID.


:checkmark: I've been through plenty of airports where various employees (particularly the fast-food and retail store workers) merely show a badge to go through security, rather than using the badge-reading "secure area" doors. That makes it easy for anyone who reasonably looks like the photo on the badge to get to the sterile areas - and, once there, stay as look as one wants.

Some airports do "close" at night, but there are still cleaning crews, fast-food and shop restocking employees, etc., who are there during the overnight hours. If this person blended-in, there is no reason he wouldn't be able to avoid notice.
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Antarius
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:25 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Some airports do "close" at night, but there are still cleaning crews, fast-food and shop restocking employees, etc., who are there during the overnight hours. If this person blended-in, there is no reason he wouldn't be able to avoid notice.


And this is why you have a badge in and badge out policy.
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xjetflyer2001
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:29 pm

Doesn't the article say that the man flew into ORD from LAX?? He probably then never even left the secure area. At most airports passengers once in the secure area are allowed to sleep over night without being kicked out, so if he just stayed in the secure area and never left, then security really didn't fail. Even when the guy took the airport employee ID badge, he most likely wasn't able to use it, as most doors require a PIN code with the ID badge, so if he didn't have the PIN code then he wasn't able to most likely use the badge anyway. Like Jetmatt777 stated, if someone is just walking around the airport, no one is going to confront them. At my airport if you scan the door and punch in the wrong code then the door alarm goes off, then I would confront them. If I am boarding a flight and the door is open, then I check everyone's badge that goes through that door, but only while I am working and it is open, if it's closed then I don't check their badge unless they are scanning and making the door alarm go off. But just walking around the airport then no one will give them a second look. If this person was walking around on the ramp, that would get a little more scrutiny especially if he wasn't wearing a vest and looked out of place with his clothing.
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:51 am

Wonder if he's dating serial stowaway Marilyn Hartman.
 
jayunited
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:26 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
If the badge was stolen why wasn’t it turned off?


When I worked at ORD, badges required a swipe and a personal code to activate any secure door. It appears that he might have just found the ID and wore it. There is no way an individual without a uniform, looking like a homeless person, would ever be able to wander around in a secure (employees only) portion of the airport on a regular basis. Tribune article has a mug shot.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/bre ... story.html

"Hagerty said Singh reportedly found the badge in the airport and was “scared to go home due to COVID.” She told the judge other passengers were giving him food.

Singh lives in the Los Angeles suburb of Orange with roommates and does not have a criminal background, according to Assistant Public Defender Courtney Smallwood. She said he has a master’s degree in hospitality and is unemployed."

ORD terminals technically close late at night and re-open around 5 or 5:30 AM or so it's possible he just stowed away somewhere in the public areas of the terminals during the time they were closed which would account for the criminal trespassing charge.



I'm hoping the person was nothing more than a stowaway because you are correct, ORD badges require the individual to not only swipe their badge but also enter a person pin to activate any secure door. If this person was found to be within a secure area of the airport then we do have a much bigger problem on our hands. Also if this person was an active employee and lost their badge they would not be able to get a new badge until they filed a police report which would deactivate the current badge. When I was on the ramp and a spotted a person air side without a badge I would challenge them. However if I was in the terminal I never thought to even look but I always made sure every security door closed behind me there was no piggy backing.

What I'm wondering is this in several reports here in Chicago they are stating this individual starting living at ORD in October of 2020. October of 2020 both United, American, and even quite a few vendors at ORD laid off what amounted to thousands of employees. Although employees are required to turn in their badge if is possible a disgruntled employee said to hell with it and just left the badge out for anyone to take? Companies are responsible for returning the badges back to to city of Chicago department of Aviation, somewhere someone at one of these companies dropped the ball and did not double check to make sure they had recovered all the badges from every single employee that was laid off.

Also you are correct ORD's terminals do close around 2 a.m. and technically don't reopen until 5 a.m. during that time airport police are supposed to conduct security sweeps of the passenger level and baggage claim level of all terminals. It is obvious they were not conducting those sweeps or if they were they simply chose not to challenge this individuals credentials, If they had they would have noticed he was using a fake ID.
 
jmc1975
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 am

Was he waiting for his connection to Krakozhia?
.......
 
alasizon
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:05 am

Antarius wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Some airports do "close" at night, but there are still cleaning crews, fast-food and shop restocking employees, etc., who are there during the overnight hours. If this person blended-in, there is no reason he wouldn't be able to avoid notice.


And this is why you have a badge in and badge out policy.


And in a lot of airports - secure access doors requiring badges were actually permanently closed in order to comply with TSA concerns about insider threats requiring employees to go through the checkpoints. Not every airport and not every door even at those that were restricted but there has been an on-going effort to secure against insider threats which drives more people through the checkpoints prior to going out into the secured area. In theory if he looked like the employee whose badge he had - depending on the way TSA has setup their screening he may been passed through into the sterile area with only regular passenger screening.

jayunited wrote:
What I'm wondering is this in several reports here in Chicago they are stating this individual starting living at ORD in October of 2020. October of 2020 both United, American, and even quite a few vendors at ORD laid off what amounted to thousands of employees. Although employees are required to turn in their badge if is possible a disgruntled employee said to hell with it and just left the badge out for anyone to take? Companies are responsible for returning the badges back to to city of Chicago department of Aviation, somewhere someone at one of these companies dropped the ball and did not double check to make sure they had recovered all the badges from every single employee that was laid off.

One of the news stories indicated it was a UA badge that he was in possession of that was lost by an employee. Even if a badge is kept/handed off by a terminated employee - once someone is terminated or reports their badge as lost, it is deactivated and if scanned at an ACAMS/SIDA portal it would set off the alarm. Not every badge makes it back - same as if an employee loses it.
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DEN1895
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:32 am

The biggest question in sterile vs secure. If someone only has access to the sterile area they are fairly limited to what they can do. Nothing can be brought into the sterile area without being screened, they can't get to any sort of secure area without a secondary identifier, a PIN or biometrics. They can't get close to a plane without a gate agent checking their badge. They can pretty much just hang out in the boarding area or near the concessions, due to the limited access people are not checking every persons badge as they walk around as that would be nearly impossible. As others have said, if the badge was turned off he wouldn't be able to go anywhere a passenger couldn't, he just wouldn't be questioned like a passenger would be either for hanging around.
 
m1m2
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:38 am

I'm not sure what to think of all this. I understand the "large airport, blend in" scenario, but you would think people who work that airport on a daily basis would notice him there and realize that he isn't ever working.

I'll give him credit for one thing, he sure has patience. I've spend a few 10+ hour stints in airports while non-reving and at the end of the day, I can't wait to get out of the airport, either on an airplane, or to a hotel, anywhere but in the terminal. I'm sure other non-rev individuals on here can share my sentiment on that.
 
MeCe
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:55 am

Here we go.

Because of someone incompetent every badge holder will get stirp search at checkpoints. And I did not buy "I found a badge and used it" ; same as liquid and laptop ban.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:47 am

My reading of the story is that the badge was reported lost in in October. I understand that it was not "functional", but merely a prop.
There is no reason to believe that this person ever had access to "secure" areas, but merely wandered about a very large airport that is functionally in operation 24/7.

In this context, I do not see this event as a major security failing, but a comment on the oblivious nature that most people see there surroundings with.
I don't think the TSA is responsible to ensure a homeless person isn't camping in the terminals; I don't know that there needs to be any massive finger pointing.

I only wonder how this person got any sleep, and how that challenge (along with clothing stench) didn't give them away earlier.
There's little doubt in my mind this person has a mental illness.
 
keithvh2001
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:38 am

jayunited wrote:
Also you are correct ORD's terminals do close around 2 a.m. and technically don't reopen until 5 a.m. during that time airport police are supposed to conduct security sweeps of the passenger level and baggage claim level of all terminals. It is obvious they were not conducting those sweeps or if they were they simply chose not to challenge this individuals credentials, If they had they would have noticed he was using a fake ID.


I've stayed overnight in the secure area at ORD twice --- once intentionally (a 11 PM arrival/6 AM departure connection that I booked to save some $), once unintentionally (cancelled flight in a pretty big snowstorm).

I was surprised, even in that first instance there were plenty of people in the concourses at 3 AM. Nobody in security questioned me, and there were multiple places (concession stands, a McDonald's) that stayed open all night.

Point being, I can see how he "blended in", even in the current COVID era.
 
TravelbyAir
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:00 am

FlyHappy wrote:
My reading of the story is that the badge was reported lost in in October. I understand that it was not "functional", but merely a prop.
There is no reason to believe that this person ever had access to "secure" areas, but merely wandered about a very large airport that is functionally in operation 24/7.

In this context, I do not see this event as a major security failing, but a comment on the oblivious nature that most people see there surroundings with.
I don't think the TSA is responsible to ensure a homeless person isn't camping in the terminals; I don't know that there needs to be any massive finger pointing.

I only wonder how this person got any sleep, and how that challenge (along with clothing stench) didn't give them away earlier.
There's little doubt in my mind this person has a mental illness.

Lots of posts about sterile, secure, threat, failures of security etc. I read it the same way as you, the guy arrives on a plane after going through security at LAX, and is just one of thousands of arriving passengers in the secure area past TSA, having been screened. He never leaves for whatever crazy reasons and partakes in restaurants and probably showers etc., in the airport.

I've read nothing that says he went into any badge access controlled areas, or did anything nefarious other than trespassing in the passenger terminal, and flashing a badge he found.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1476
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:06 am

I don’t think many grasp the nature of just how many people work in a terminal or an airport.

I’ve worked out of the same one terminal for years. Fairly often, I’ll meet someone who has also worked in the same terminal for years, but I’d never spoken to or bumped into at any point. Between the shops, the restaurants, facilities, maintenance, cleaners, assorted handlers/airlines...there’s just too many people to really notice that one guy looks out of place. Especially once you start to see him daily.

Rampside is a different story. Anyone who doesn’t know very well what they are doing out there generally gets found out very quickly.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:19 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
I thought Victor Navorski was at JFK? Maybe the SmartCarte returns pay more quarters in ORD.

dammit. came here to post this.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am

As many said you need to swipe and put in a pin to go thru the security doors and if he would have tried to swipe there would have been a notification sent. As someone who loves to wonder around ORD, there are so many little spots to hide in and the fact that you can walk between T1-T2-T3 you have plenty of opportunity to keep changing up your location so you don’t become familiar. As for cleanliness, as many smelly passengers I have flown next to me I don’t think many would bat an eye at this guy, plus I have seen men with no shirt washing themselves at TPA and MCO in the bathroom, you could do a lot more in a private family bathroom.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 772 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
jcwr56
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:10 pm

I'm aware he never crossed the checkpoint to end up landside. But, the story still leaves out where this guy was challenged and caught. "Secured" means a lot of things and personally, I read this as a ramp level. Where ever he was, he looked out of place and that is not the holds rooms, washroom or wandering the concourses.
 
User avatar
vhtje
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:21 pm

Antarius wrote:
TSA - burning money and invading privacy with no value since 2001


Why would this be within the TSA's remit? Their job is to screen departing passengers, not to patrol and provide security to the wider airport.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:41 pm

Ok here's the kicker. Certain airports like ORD used to allow people in the sterile area at night. Some airports like BOS and CLT do not. However, starting with COVID airports no longer allow overnight passengers in the sterile area. In fact over the summer I arrived at ORD/LAX/DFW late at night on a very delayed flight and the policy were chasing people out of the sterile area.

So my question is does TSA validate the worker ID when they go through Security? (I presume not). Also, if this person had been spending the entire night in the ticketing area and re-entering the terminal everyday he would have been poorly showered and in unkempt clothes. You think that someone either at TSA or the airport would police would have realized something wasn't right. Again this wasn't 3 weeks, it was 3 months.
 
11C
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:48 pm

bennett123 wrote:
It only took three months.

So saying that 'the system worked' is stretching things a bit.


I have to agree, the system failed. Someone with bad intent just needs a few minutes to do harm. Finding someone after a few months is just an accident.
 
jcwr56
Posts: 1024
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:07 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Ok here's the kicker. Certain airports like ORD used to allow people in the sterile area at night. Some airports like BOS and CLT do not. However, starting with COVID airports no longer allow overnight passengers in the sterile area. In fact over the summer I arrived at ORD/LAX/DFW late at night on a very delayed flight and the policy were chasing people out of the sterile area.

So my question is does TSA validate the worker ID when they go through Security? (I presume not). Also, if this person had been spending the entire night in the ticketing area and re-entering the terminal everyday he would have been poorly showered and in unkempt clothes. You think that someone either at TSA or the airport would police would have realized something wasn't right. Again this wasn't 3 weeks, it was 3 months.


Anyone watching employees going through a TSA checkpoint see they have to badge and either fingerprint or pin code.
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:43 pm

keithvh2001 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Also you are correct ORD's terminals do close around 2 a.m. and technically don't reopen until 5 a.m. during that time airport police are supposed to conduct security sweeps of the passenger level and baggage claim level of all terminals. It is obvious they were not conducting those sweeps or if they were they simply chose not to challenge this individuals credentials, If they had they would have noticed he was using a fake ID.


I've stayed overnight in the secure area at ORD twice --- once intentionally (a 11 PM arrival/6 AM departure connection that I booked to save some $), once unintentionally (cancelled flight in a pretty big snowstorm).

I was surprised, even in that first instance there were plenty of people in the concourses at 3 AM. Nobody in security questioned me, and there were multiple places (concession stands, a McDonald's) that stayed open all night.

Point being, I can see how he "blended in", even in the current COVID era.


Staying at the airport after a major storm is completely different the city of Chicago's Department of Aviation sets up cots for people to sleep on, they know and expect people to be in the terminals following a major storm. We've had no major storms here in Chicago, the biggest snow storm thus far this season or since October only put down around 5 or 6 inches at ORD. There is no reason or excuse as to why this person was able to essentially camp out within the terminals at ORD for a little over 3 months without security personnel questioning why the same guy is there night after night.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3345
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:01 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Ok here's the kicker. Certain airports like ORD used to allow people in the sterile area at night. Some airports like BOS and CLT do not. However, starting with COVID airports no longer allow overnight passengers in the sterile area. In fact over the summer I arrived at ORD/LAX/DFW late at night on a very delayed flight and the policy were chasing people out of the sterile area.

So my question is does TSA validate the worker ID when they go through Security? (I presume not). Also, if this person had been spending the entire night in the ticketing area and re-entering the terminal everyday he would have been poorly showered and in unkempt clothes. You think that someone either at TSA or the airport would police would have realized something wasn't right. Again this wasn't 3 weeks, it was 3 months.


The TSA does check all employee badges and employees are required to either enter their pin or use their finger print at the scanner before they even approach the the actual screeners. This isn't a failure of the TSA they are only responsible for screening passengers entering the sterile area. Airport Police employees by the Department of Aviation is who is responsible for conducting security sweeps.

Also by all accounts this person was not leaving the sterile area it is looking like he remained within the sterile area for the entire 3 months he was living at ORD. The question facing the Department of Aviation is why in that time was he never challenged by airport police, why did it take two United employees to challenge this guy before anything was done?

Of the 18 years spent on the ramp with United I spend 4 of those years working midnights (10 p.m.-6 a.m.) while putting myself through college and I can tell you on a normal day terminals 1, 2, and 3 are all dead by 12 a.m.. You have a few late night arrivals from the West Coast on United and American that land around 1 a.m. afterward those terminals were dead until 4:30 a.m. that is when the red-eyes starting arriving. Terminal 5 was of course busy back then with a lot of overnight international departures to Mexico and the occasional departure to Asia. Those were normal times, but we are in the middle of a pandemic flight schedules are greatly reduce and we haven't had any major snow storms in Chicago how this person manage to remain in the sterile area is a failure of the airport police not the TSA.
 
ethernal
Posts: 482
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:05 pm

This is not a security failure. Is it surprising that someone pulled this off for 3 months? Maybe. Was there ever any material risk to anyone? No. Were secure (non-public areas) accessed? While I can't say authoritatively no, the answer is probably not.

I know that scaremongers can come up with a story where someone lives airside for 3 months with an accomplice slowly bringing in enough materials to make a bomb or something, but such a long time frame would be risky as bomb sniffing dogs would sniff around pretty much every inch of a major airport in that time. The higher risk mode is 5-10 people doing it all the same day and combining materials discretely in a bathroom.

All we have here is a clearly mentally ill effectively homeless man trawling an airport terminal post-security. That's sad, and the stolen (well, probably found) badge definitely makes the crime worse, but let's not overreact and call it a huge failure. Especially in an era of facemasks (of course it's hard to learn to recognize the same person when half their face is covered). The person saying that airports that are too large should be slot restricted.. is laughable.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:09 pm

The fact that this guy could remain in the sterile area (supposedly after all paxs were told to leave) for 3 months is really scary. There are only so many places to hide. Moreover, between the last flights departing for the night and the RON flights coming in the terminal gets very quite with few passengers around. A guy that looked fairly "unkempt" night after night had to look out of place.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3067
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Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:28 pm

Question is if someone in sterile area for 3 months can do something, that a connecting passenger who is in the same area for 6 hours cannot do.
I can see two options.
1. observing routine, making note of PINs, finding a chance to steal a badge with a known pin, and getting into a higher grade area. What's next?
2. collecting something that can make it through the TSA only in small quantity, say 100 bottles of 1 oz liquids for a big bang. Requires a lot of money for tickets to bring many small bottles, and a lot of conspirators, meaning the high chance of a failure.

Anything else?

I believe, cooking in a closed restaurant kitchen was reported earlier. That would be the uncomfortable part, though. May include access to kitchen tools which may be an issue on the plane - but again, one person with one kitchen knife is a bad event, but not a catastrophic one.
Last edited by kalvado on Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2618
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:29 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
It's not like this guy was in the airport for just 3 days. It was 3 months. His hygiene would have definitely suffered-you only can get so "clean" washing up in a sink. Not to mention it's not like he had access to a washer and dryer I get the "big airport" meme but come on after a month this guy had to be very noticeable just from a lack of "hygiene" aspect, not to mention he must have had the "bugged out" look from lack of proper sleep.

I.


I think what you just described above is the stereotypical slob showing up at a gate with greasy pants, a body odour and flip flops on dirty feet. Unsurprisingly he went unnoticed with thousands of them flying in and out every day of the week.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:43 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
It's not like this guy was in the airport for just 3 days. It was 3 months. His hygiene would have definitely suffered-you only can get so "clean" washing up in a sink. Not to mention it's not like he had access to a washer and dryer I get the "big airport" meme but come on after a month this guy had to be very noticeable just from a lack of "hygiene" aspect, not to mention he must have had the "bugged out" look from lack of proper sleep.

I.


I think what you just described above is the stereotypical slob showing up at a gate with greasy pants, a body odour and flip flops on dirty feet. Unsurprisingly he went unnoticed with thousands of them flying in and out every day of the week.


Are there paxs like this? Of course-I've even seem them in premium cabins and sometimes in the AC. However, they by no means aren't the standard passenger (despite our society becoming a bunch of overweight slobs) and law enforcement is trained to look for the "unusual." And it would seem to me it wouldn't take much to for someone to think didn't I see this guy yesterday or a couple of days ago? Again, particularly at times when the terminal gets to be very quiet with much fewer paxs.
 
mga707
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:25 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
It's not like this guy was in the airport for just 3 days. It was 3 months. His hygiene would have definitely suffered-you only can get so "clean" washing up in a sink. Not to mention it's not like he had access to a washer and dryer I get the "big airport" meme but come on after a month this guy had to be very noticeable just from a lack of "hygiene" aspect, not to mention he must have had the "bugged out" look from lack of proper sleep.

I.


I think what you just described above is the stereotypical slob showing up at a gate with greasy pants, a body odour and flip flops on dirty feet. Unsurprisingly he went unnoticed with thousands of them flying in and out every day of the week.


Are there paxs like this? Of course-I've even seem them in premium cabins and sometimes in the AC. However, they by no means aren't the standard passenger (despite our society becoming a bunch of overweight slobs) and law enforcement is trained to look for the "unusual." And it would seem to me it wouldn't take much to for someone to think didn't I see this guy yesterday or a couple of days ago? Again, particularly at times when the terminal gets to be very quiet with much fewer paxs.


I'm skeptical about the '3 months'. Have not read anywhere where that has been independently confirmed. Also, from this guy's mug shot, he's the opposite of overweight. Guess he wasn't getting a lot to eat.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9284
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:19 pm

The OP's CNN clip doesn't make clear if he was in a secure area (as in, beyond TSA screening) or a restricted area (badge swipes and PINs). Just beyond security? Blah. How many people with an employee badge are beyond security in a big U.S. airport between 2-5am? Many, I would guess. During flight hours it's easy to blend in with 200K arriving/departing passengers a day at ORD. Unkempt as a clue? It's not 1955 when people dressed up to fly.

As for quality of life (and I don't diminish his troubles), he had water, toilets, a public screened for weapons, heat (and probably left-over food). Know any college kids who regularly did dumpster-diving for fast food? I do.

It looks like some posters here seriously undercount the number of homeless people in America (about 1/2 a million). Were I his attorney I'd push the 'afraid of Covid' angle, too.
 
dopplerd
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Man lived on the secure side of ORD for three months undetected

Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:00 pm

All of the doors that I frequent at ORD have been upgraded to biometric (fingerprint) within the last year. If this badge was still active, which would be surprising, someone is getting a stern talking too.

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