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8herveg
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Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:31 pm

With Flybe and bmi regional gone, and Loganair taking on many of their old routes (and Eastern Airways too, but to a lesser extent), would it be beneficial for the UK’s two remaining/largest regional airlines to merge?

Whilst I agree competition is a good thing, are each airline really big enough/is the UK big enough, to justify two small airlines? There’s fleet commonality and they have many shared routes.

Could one large regional airline, to essentially fill the gap of Flybe, be a good move?

Thanks
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:15 am

Eastern Airways is losing a lot of money, long before Covid - I'm honestly constantly surprised they're still around. They have a very old fleet of Jetstreams, half of which are derelict, which are of absolutely no interest to Loganair. The two ATRs are on (presumably expensive) lease - easier for Loganair to just pick up their own examples off the market. Then the random make up of ERJs. It's not an efficient or profitable operation to purchase. It really wouldn't be worth it for Loganair. They'd be better waiting for them to go under.
 
GVZZZ
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:47 am

Indeed, I think Loganair seem quite a well managed company, and despite what appears to be a lot of 'expansion' recently it's all using existing assets. They have a partnership (sorry don't know if it is interlining or code sharing etc) with Blue Islands and yesterday announced something similar with BA Cityflyer on the Southampton routes.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:24 am

As an observer of all things Loganair, I've followed their progress with interest for over forty years. Formed in 1962, and I think they are in fact the longest serving (using the same name/brand) UK airline ?

But I do worry about all this expansion and where they end up if it all goes pear shaped ? Not least the lifeline Scottish Highlands & islands routes that are vital to so many rural communities, many of whom have strong loyalties to Loganair. Comparisons with Flybe don't easy my anxiety either.

That said, current CEO Jonathan Hinkles, seems like one of the most switched on modern airline bosses, I've seen for years. His level headedness and lack of ego, plus what appears to be a real ear to the ground understanding of what problems the business is going through are very impressive, his occasional press interviews are a joy to read. He comes across as a young rookie football team manager, guiding his team through the lower leagues, on a low budget, to win the Premiership. I've no doubt he'll be snapped up by the proverbial 'Real Madrid' soon enough.

He's certainly got Loganair noticed in recent times, and that presumably is why questions like the one the OP has posed cone about ? I can see Eastern quietly disappearing, and Loganair expanding more into their network. I doubt a physical takeover would occur, given the Eastern fleet make up. I also imagine there are some within Loganair still not amused by Eastern's getting into bed with Flybe when they tried edging Loganair out of their core intra Scotland services a few years ago.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:04 pm

Alas the only Eastern aircraft that would be of interest to Loganair are the 2 ATRs, and perhaps the E170s. Their E145s don't fly very often, and i believe some are up for sale?? I suspect that with Loganair focusing on replacing the Saab 340 fleet with ATR42s, acquiring a fleet of partially airworthy and even less capable J41s wouldn't appeal to them much.

Loganair has it's own issues to deal with, and looking ahead potentially the large fleet of E145s being one of them. Fuel is cheap now, but sooner or later will they be replaced??? :scratchchin:
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:40 pm

yea after they merged Loganair become the flag carrier of Scotland

And they start long haul service in the new airport which replaced both GLA and EDI
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:15 pm

Bad mergers and poor fleet planning killed flyBe, so I would like to think that Loganair would not go down the same route. They have been a BA and flyBe franchise partner since 1993, so have outlasted most of their competition.
Modernising the fleet with ATRs seems sensible, I don’t know if Loganair actually uses the speed and range advantage of the ERJs, or just took them over when sister airline bmi Regional was dissolved? In which case a one-type ATR “mainline” fleet makes sense, as they have already indicated. Over the short distances that flying around the British Isles involves Loganair might not need a jet?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:40 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
Alas the only Eastern aircraft that would be of interest to Loganair are the 2 ATRs


ATR 72-600s are cheap and plentiful at the moment. There are a lot of them parked up awaiting an operator. There is really no reason to buy an entire airline to get hold of 2 aircraft that you could get much cheaper elsewhere.

On an interesting side note, Eastern Airways and most of Loganair's ATR fleets both come from NAC.
 
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CarbonFibre
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:45 pm

How about merging Auigny, Blue Islands and Loganair to create on regional UK carrier?
 
caaardiff
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:32 pm

Things looked up for Eastern when they looked to expand and cover some of the lost Flybe routes. Loganair soon started to expand as well and there was a lot of duplication of routes being brought out. Add in to the Covid, so there's been no chance yet to see the potential of any of those new routes. Eastern have already started to retreat by cancelling some of their routes, mainly out of Teeside, some of which hadn't even started to gain momentum.
It appears something is up as Teeside Airport brought in Loganair on pretty much an identical route network.
Loganair are in much better shape, and as already said, it's surprising Eastern have even lasted this long. The owner must have deep pockets.
Loganair certainly don't need to take on Eastern. They have moderately expanded using their existing fleet and there's no end of flight crew looking for work after all the cut backs being made with UK Airlines.
It will be interesting to see Easterns next move now that Teeside is being reduced, which was said to be a 3 aircraft base, now likely only being 1 J41. A more sensible option would be a merger with Stobart or even Blue Islands.
 
TC957
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:38 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
How about merging Auigny, Blue Islands and Loganair to create on regional UK carrier?

Not sure how that's of benefit, since Aurigny & Blue Islands are focused on the Channel Islands and Loganair up in Scotland.
Some code-sharing deal may work between them though, providing through fares and ticketing via MAN or SOU.
 
by738
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:04 pm

Loganair would go nowhere near any other regional carrier let alone Eastern
 
Allanc1987
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:53 pm

caaardiff wrote:
Things looked up for Eastern when they looked to expand and cover some of the lost Flybe routes. Loganair soon started to expand as well and there was a lot of duplication of routes being brought out. Add in to the Covid, so there's been no chance yet to see the potential of any of those new routes. Eastern have already started to retreat by cancelling some of their routes, mainly out of Teeside, some of which hadn't even started to gain momentum.
It appears something is up as Teeside Airport brought in Loganair on pretty much an identical route network.
Loganair are in much better shape, and as already said, it's surprising Eastern have even lasted this long. The owner must have deep pockets.
Loganair certainly don't need to take on Eastern. They have moderately expanded using their existing fleet and there's no end of flight crew looking for work after all the cut backs being made with UK Airlines.
It will be interesting to see Easterns next move now that Teeside is being reduced, which was said to be a 3 aircraft base, now likely only being 1 J41. A more sensible option would be a merger with Stobart or even Blue Islands.



I could see a merger with Stobart and Eastern happen
Would be help Easten with more ATR 72-600s,
Eastern do codeshare with Aurigny

Possible to run flights from London Southend?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:03 pm

Are Stobart really relevant as an airline any more ? My understanding is their contract with Aer Lingus Regional will not be renewed. Their scheduled flying at Southend has largely stopped. What's left of them which is of commercial value today ?

In discussing mergers, we're talking about small airlines flying a modest number of props in a consolidating industry that's seen an enormous drop in revenue. Merging with other airlines burns huge amounts of management time... If Loganair want to do any merging it should be with airlines that have a meaningful presence (eg Air Nostrum or Wideroe), not the tiniest of players
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:40 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Bad mergers and poor fleet planning killed flyBe, so I would like to think that Loganair would not go down the same route. They have been a BA and flyBe franchise partner since 1993, so have outlasted most of their competition.
Modernising the fleet with ATRs seems sensible, I don’t know if Loganair actually uses the speed and range advantage of the ERJs, or just took them over when sister airline bmi Regional was dissolved? In which case a one-type ATR “mainline” fleet makes sense, as they have already indicated. Over the short distances that flying around the British Isles involves Loganair might not need a jet?


The ERJ's were asset transferred to Loganair prior to the BMI Regional collapse, both airlines being part of the AIG parent group. I don't see them lasting too long, as the ultimate plan is ATR.
 
caaardiff
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:35 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are Stobart really relevant as an airline any more ? My understanding is their contract with Aer Lingus Regional will not be renewed. Their scheduled flying at Southend has largely stopped. What's left of them which is of commercial value today ?

In discussing mergers, we're talking about small airlines flying a modest number of props in a consolidating industry that's seen an enormous drop in revenue. Merging with other airlines burns huge amounts of management time... If Loganair want to do any merging it should be with airlines that have a meaningful presence (eg Air Nostrum or Wideroe), not the tiniest of players


I think that's the key here. Stobart seem to be stagnant, maybe losing interest in the Airline side of things? Eastern appear to want to keep going but don't have the aircraft and sizeable operation to do so. With the right setup, Eastern/Stobart with ATR's would be more economical than ageing ER145's. Neither Eastern or Loganair have a huge brand presence outside of Scotland and there's still many gaps left unfilled from Flybe (At reasonable frequency!).

Either way, Eastern have to pretty much go big or give up now. They need to tidy up and standardise their fleet, update their offering (Apps) and connectivity, and increase their brand awareness. They had a core business in oil flying that has hugely downsized over recent years and charter flying isn't getting a huge amount of work at the moment, although they probably have benefited some what by the demise of bmi Regional that often picked up charter work. Loganair are fast becoming more well known, up to date and consistent. If Eastern aren't prepared to adapt they might as well give up Scheduled flying altogether.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:07 pm

caaardiff wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are Stobart really relevant as an airline any more ? My understanding is their contract with Aer Lingus Regional will not be renewed. Their scheduled flying at Southend has largely stopped. What's left of them which is of commercial value today ?

In discussing mergers, we're talking about small airlines flying a modest number of props in a consolidating industry that's seen an enormous drop in revenue. Merging with other airlines burns huge amounts of management time... If Loganair want to do any merging it should be with airlines that have a meaningful presence (eg Air Nostrum or Wideroe), not the tiniest of players


I think that's the key here. Stobart seem to be stagnant, maybe losing interest in the Airline side of things? Eastern appear to want to keep going but don't have the aircraft and sizeable operation to do so. With the right setup, Eastern/Stobart with ATR's would be more economical than ageing ER145's. Neither Eastern or Loganair have a huge brand presence outside of Scotland and there's still many gaps left unfilled from Flybe (At reasonable frequency!).

Either way, Eastern have to pretty much go big or give up now. They need to tidy up and standardise their fleet, update their offering (Apps) and connectivity, and increase their brand awareness. They had a core business in oil flying that has hugely downsized over recent years and charter flying isn't getting a huge amount of work at the moment, although they probably have benefited some what by the demise of bmi Regional that often picked up charter work. Loganair are fast becoming more well known, up to date and consistent. If Eastern aren't prepared to adapt they might as well give up Scheduled flying altogether.


The reason there might be gaps from Flybe is because Flybe didn’t make money. If their experience is anything to go by we don’t want other carriers doing the same again as it just leads to losses.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:33 pm

The thread title ought to read "Should Loganair and Eastern merge?"
Merge into what? Loganair has a very strong local brand, Eastern less so. So the question becomes if Loganair bought Eastern, what would the benefits be for the costs? Some existing leases on second hand aircraft, a 2nd head office to close and an engineering team to right size (i.e. cull)
Added to the fact that Eastern partnered with flybe to really try and damage Loganair on their core routes, I suspect there's little love or want there. The commercial synergies don't seem to be there as they generally don't compete.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:48 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
caaardiff wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are Stobart really relevant as an airline any more ? My understanding is their contract with Aer Lingus Regional will not be renewed. Their scheduled flying at Southend has largely stopped. What's left of them which is of commercial value today ?

In discussing mergers, we're talking about small airlines flying a modest number of props in a consolidating industry that's seen an enormous drop in revenue. Merging with other airlines burns huge amounts of management time... If Loganair want to do any merging it should be with airlines that have a meaningful presence (eg Air Nostrum or Wideroe), not the tiniest of players


I think that's the key here. Stobart seem to be stagnant, maybe losing interest in the Airline side of things? Eastern appear to want to keep going but don't have the aircraft and sizeable operation to do so. With the right setup, Eastern/Stobart with ATR's would be more economical than ageing ER145's. Neither Eastern or Loganair have a huge brand presence outside of Scotland and there's still many gaps left unfilled from Flybe (At reasonable frequency!).

Either way, Eastern have to pretty much go big or give up now. They need to tidy up and standardise their fleet, update their offering (Apps) and connectivity, and increase their brand awareness. They had a core business in oil flying that has hugely downsized over recent years and charter flying isn't getting a huge amount of work at the moment, although they probably have benefited some what by the demise of bmi Regional that often picked up charter work. Loganair are fast becoming more well known, up to date and consistent. If Eastern aren't prepared to adapt they might as well give up Scheduled flying altogether.


The reason there might be gaps from Flybe is because Flybe didn’t make money. If their experience is anything to go by we don’t want other carriers doing the same again as it just leads to losses.


It'll be interesting to see what happens with their BHD operation. Stobart had wanted a base there for many years, and were very quick to step in on some of the lucrative former Flybe routes. Will Aer Lingus keep the brand with Emerald, or will Stobart do it alone?
 
Allanc1987
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:20 pm

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stob ... -prnrfzqhl


Mr Brady says the airline business will also soon be out of the door. It has lost a long-term contract with Aer Lingus but retains take-off and landing slots at Dublin airport from which it has flown to UK secondary and tertiary airports. The airline licence and slots could be sold to the Irish start-up Emerald, or to Cyrus Capital, the US hedge fund that has bought Flybe from the administrators; or another small Irish franchise carrier, City Jet.
 
BealineV953
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Re: Could or would Eastern Airways and Loganair merge?

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:01 pm

TC957 wrote:
CarbonFibre wrote:
How about merging Aurigny, Blue Islands and Loganair to create on regional UK carrier?

Not sure how that's of benefit, since Aurigny and Blue Islands are focused on the Channel Islands and Loganair up in Scotland.
.


Bear in mind that the Channel Islands are not part of the UK.
Aurigny is owned by the Government of Guernsey and Alderney. Part of the airline's strategy is to ensure connections between Guernsey, Alderney and the UK.
When flybe pulled off LGW-GCI, Aurigny acquired an Embraer 195 to take over the Gatwick route.
I very much doubt that the Government of Guernsey and Alderney would want to get involved in any sort of merger that would move control to an organisation with less interest in keeping Guernsey and Alderney connected to the UK.
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