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Dutchy
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Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:30 pm

LUFTHANSA PERFORMS LONGEST PASSENGER FLIGHT IN ITS HISTORY

HAMBURG - Lufthansa will operate the longest passenger flight in its history on 1 February. On that day, a chartered Airbus A350-900 will depart from Hamburg to Mount Pleasant in the Falkland Islands, covering 13,700 kilometers non-stop during the journey. The flight takes fifteen hours.

There are only 92 passengers on board flight LH2574. Half of the group consists of climate scientists who must be taken to the South Pole, the other half is ship's crew. The mission had been planned for years and can continue as usual with the necessary measures.

According to Lufthansa, the preparation for the flight is intensive: the pilots receive additional training in navigation and technicians accompany them to solve any problems. The crew as well as the travelers as well as the seventeen crew members started a quarantine period of two weeks. The aircraft itself is properly cleaned and sealed.

The return flight departs on February 3 and goes to Munich. Relieved ship's crew will then travel on board.


Link

Interesting route, plotted on GC Map. That is a long long time over water. Always nice to see these kinds of charters.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:13 am

This will also be the longest nonstop flight ever from Hamburg.
Until like 10 years ago Lufthansa had charter flights from Hamburg to Rio de Janeiro on 747s, usually over new years.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:08 am

Cool to see.

Funny how it's such a big deal for a carrier (with favorable geography) versus the types (SQ, EK, NZ, etc) who do/did this sort of op on a scheduled and/or daily basis.
 
peterjohns
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Cool to see.

Funny how it's such a big deal for a carrier (with favorable geography) versus the types (SQ, EK, NZ, etc) who do/did this sort of op on a scheduled and/or daily basis.



I was thinking the same thing yesterday, when I read it the first time. But all news on airlines not needing money or having to let people go, are good news.
I would have liked to have been on that flight, I have never seen the Falklands.
 
JibberJim
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Do they say why? There's a twice weekly service from the UK, and weekly from Chile, seems strange to charter an A350 for 92 people at long notice (so presumably any cargo could've gone by a cheaper route?
 
peterjohns
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:11 pm

It´s to bring scientists to their ship bound to antarctica. Due to corona travel ban- the normal routes (with the RAF) taken, can´t be used.
 
JibberJim
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:00 pm

It says "The mission had been planned for years" which implied to me that they've been intending the flight for years, but I suppose it could be the Antarctic mission that had been planned for years.
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:19 pm

The client is the Alfred-Wegner-Institut, the German entity responsible for all activities in the Antarctic including the research station there, and the German iceabreaking vessel Polarstern. The polar research missions are planned years in advance to have all the scientist, research tools etc inplace. And that´s what "mission had been planned for" refers to.

As there is only limited capacity to treat sickness when on board resp. the station they are taking all precautions possible. Same was done last year within the MOSAIC mission.
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:35 pm

peterjohns wrote:
It´s to bring scientists to their ship bound to antarctica. Due to corona travel ban- the normal routes (with the RAF) taken, can´t be used.


Makes sense. I work in a remote site ( Astronomical Observatory located in the Atacama Desert ) and since April we're using a charter flight with an A320 for a maximum of 62 passengers, flying every two weeks for the shift changes, with all the staff coming from southern locations in Chile . The charter flight allows to keep a much strict respect of the social distance on board ( compared with scheduled regular flights using all the seats as usual in Chile ).... much better in terms of tracking any close contact with positive cases ( if we have one some day ).
The 92 pax on board of the LH A350 could be seated separated by a row or something like that precisely to allow a better practice regading the safe social distance for such a long flight.



Rgds.
G.
 
JibberJim
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:48 pm

Yes, it certainly makes sense with the explanation of which mission had been planned for years, it was just my confusion that made me think the specific chartering had been planned for years.

I assume also Gonzalo that LH wouldn't have any other planes to make it non-stop, and avoiding any stopover was desired too?
 
airbazar
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:

Interesting route, plotted on GC Map. That is a long long time over water. Always nice to see these kinds of charters.


Long time over water but never too far from land.
 
hpff
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Interesting route, plotted on GC Map. That is a long long time over water. Always nice to see these kinds of charters.


Long time over water but never too far from land.


Just what I was thinking. LAX-MEL is 300 miles shorter and I reckon the charter flight is over land for a much larger percentage of time than that commercial route (especially since that flight will take off to the west at LAX probably 99% of the time) or LAX-SYD, 800 miles shorter but unless you fly over Viti Levu or take a northerly track over Queensland you may only be over land "on runway heading" so to speak.

Are they allowed to divert to Argentina for this flight?
 
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dik909
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:42 pm

Oh, interesting !! Would love to know what time they're leaving, so I could head to HAM and watch them depart. :)
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:49 pm

the pilots receive additional training in navigation and technicians accompany them to solve any problems.


Additional training in navigation? I find that a bit weird. Apart from the fact that the pilots have probably never landed at MPN, this flight poses no major navigation issues. Unless they are going to be flying a PAR approach into the airport...lol

Bringing technicians is understandable though.
 
peterjohns
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:38 pm

I believe the extra training is due to landing at an airport which they have never flown to. That is standard practice (at least with LH) to get familiar with the new location concerning any special things that have to be observed - e.g. terrain, missed approach, wx, alternates, local procedures.
You don´t want any surprises at the end of the trip!!
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:56 pm

JibberJim wrote:
Yes, it certainly makes sense with the explanation of which mission had been planned for years, it was just my confusion that made me think the specific chartering had been planned for years.

I assume also Gonzalo that LH wouldn't have any other planes to make it non-stop, and avoiding any stopover was desired too?


Sadly, nowadays a stopover triggers a higher risk of contamination since it is almost impossible to provide any service to the aircraft with 100 per cent of sanitization ( Risk Zero doesn't exists ).
Looking at the direct route on GCM ( assuming they will fly that route ) they can easily divert to African/Brazilian/Uruguayan airports most of the time flying overwater in case of an emergency.


Rgds.

G.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:10 pm

I'm failing to see the significance of this flight unless LH is looking for a good news story. As stated many times above, a RAF flight operates all the time as does the flight from SCL.. The whole story sounds like a beat up- by the way they are promoting this flight you'd think the plane was landing in antartica, but it's not.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:24 pm

Which A 350 was it? The registration is not mentioned anywhere.
 
airbazar
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I'm failing to see the significance of this flight unless LH is looking for a good news story. As stated many times above, a RAF flight operates all the time as does the flight from SCL.. The whole story sounds like a beat up- by the way they are promoting this flight you'd think the plane was landing in antartica, but it's not.

Every time there is a new 7,000nm route, even if it's a one-off charter you're going to get some publicity. Especially so now when airline news are very rare. Anything is better than nothing IMO. After all this is an airline forum :)
Just last week there was news that SATA was flying the longest A321LR route, between LIS and BOG and also just a one-off flight. That's just how things are these days.
 
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c933103
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:01 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Cool to see.

Funny how it's such a big deal for a carrier (with favorable geography) versus the types (SQ, EK, NZ, etc) who do/did this sort of op on a scheduled and/or daily basis.

13700km is quite long for a 359, with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR, and I believe Falkland is also relatively isolated from other alternative
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
13700km is quite long for a 359

No it isn't... at all. You can easily do that with pax+bags+cargo using even 275tonne aircraft. SQ did more than that with its standard birds.


c933103 wrote:
with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR

The -ULRs haven't done LAX since April of last year, and their range was never really needed for LAX.

The 280T standard birds are scheduled for LAX for the foreseeable future, with the carrier stating that their (front hold) cargo capabilities are needed.
 
sabby
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:20 pm

c933103 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Cool to see.

Funny how it's such a big deal for a carrier (with favorable geography) versus the types (SQ, EK, NZ, etc) who do/did this sort of op on a scheduled and/or daily basis.

13700km is quite long for a 359, with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR, and I believe Falkland is also relatively isolated from other alternative


PAL's MNL-JFK is actually 12km longer and they used to fly that route with A359 westward over the brutal pacific winds.
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:27 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I'm failing to see the significance of this flight unless LH is looking for a good news story. As stated many times above, a RAF flight operates all the time as does the flight from SCL.. The whole story sounds like a beat up- by the way they are promoting this flight you'd think the plane was landing in antartica, but it's not.


Good Luck trying to come from Hamburg and find a seat to Mount Pleasant with Latam in the forseeable future... We are expereincing the "second wave" of the virus here, connecting through SCL is a complete nightmare or simply not allowed by the authorities... we are not even close to normal operations here...


Rgds.

G.
 
TC957
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:13 pm

LH have flown A346's MUC - HNL nonstop in the past for cruise ship charters. Is that not longer ?
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:23 pm

TC957 wrote:
LH have flown A346's MUC - HNL nonstop in the past for cruise ship charters. Is that not longer ?


I did wonder that as well, but no:

MUC-HNL - 7593 miles
HAM-MPN - 8266 miles
 
330lover
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:26 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
JibberJim wrote:
Yes, it certainly makes sense with the explanation of which mission had been planned for years, it was just my confusion that made me think the specific chartering had been planned for years.

I assume also Gonzalo that LH wouldn't have any other planes to make it non-stop, and avoiding any stopover was desired too?


Sadly, nowadays a stopover triggers a higher risk of contamination since it is almost impossible to provide any service to the aircraft with 100 per cent of sanitization ( Risk Zero doesn't exists ).
Looking at the direct route on GCM ( assuming they will fly that route ) they can easily divert to African/Brazilian/Uruguayan airports most of the time flying overwater in case of an emergency.


Rgds.

G.


That's right, plenty of diversion possibilities en route.
And even in case of really bad weather at arrival, which arrived me almost 11 years ago, (relatively short) diversions are possible to Argentina (assuming emergencies are allowed to land in Argentina) or Chile.
Just for illustration:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ham-mpn%0D ... =wls&DU=mi
 
airbazar
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:26 pm

TC957 wrote:
LH have flown A346's MUC - HNL nonstop in the past for cruise ship charters. Is that not longer ?

Nope, otherwise this news wouldn't exist :) MUC-HNL is aprox. 600nm shorter but it does however, pose other challenges due to it being a polar route and having more stringent EDTO restrictions.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HAM-MPN%0D ... =wls&DU=nm
 
dcajet
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:32 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
Good Luck trying to come from Hamburg and find a seat to Mount Pleasant with Latam


I am pretty sure LATAM has not been flying to MPS both from SCL or GRU since the pandemic broke out. The only way to reach the islands by air is via the RAF/AirTanker service from Brize Norton.


hpff wrote:

Are they allowed to divert to Argentina for this flight?


The Lufthansa Group operates daily passenger and cargo services at EZE so I see no reason why they wouldn't. With that said, never discount the likelihood of the current administration in Buenos Aires of throwing some diplomatic stink bomb denouncing colonialism and all that jazz... We heard it all before.

Prior to the pandemic, Austrian, Condor and Lufthansa were frequent visitors at USH during the southern summer bringing tourists for their Antarctic cruises. For refueling and a crew change LH stopped at EZE, Condor at FOR and OS at GIG.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:17 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
Which A 350 was it? The registration is not mentioned anywhere.


I'm hearing that it'll be D-AIXN, named Göttingen. Funnily enough, it'll leave HAM exactly a day after it's 2nd birthday.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
13700km is quite long for a 359, with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR, and I believe Falkland is also relatively isolated from other alternative


With 92 pax.

It is still a ETOPS120 route, considering A359 is ETOPS370 certified.
 
zkncj
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:51 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Cool to see.

Funny how it's such a big deal for a carrier (with favorable geography) versus the types (SQ, EK, NZ, etc) who do/did this sort of op on a scheduled and/or daily basis.


The likes of AKL-SCL/EZE spend allot longer over water, with the nearest land hours away.

Also SYD/AKL-YVR spends around 13-15hours almost completely over water.
 
DylanHarvey
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:53 pm

Only because it’s an A359 does everyone suddenly question if it can make it. At 280t and full fuel which is around 37t of payload at 135T DOw, 108.3t of usable fuel, 8t of reserve, 5.8/hr, you should be good for around 17:30 endurance, well over 300pax.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:48 pm

I think we can all assume that Lufthansa knows exactly what they are doing and that they calculated the distance, weight and route etc. precisely and chosed the type of aircraft quite deliberately. Lufthansa is still a highly reputable airline! So we all don't need to worry that the A 350 can't make it non-stop.
 
dcajet
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:33 am

Argentine media reports that the Argentine Foreign Ministry announced today that Lufthansa made a formal request for overflight and landing before the National Civil Aviation Administration and the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and the South Atlantic Islands, thus implicitly recognizing Argentina's claim over the island. Additionally, the German Embassy also asked the Prefectura Naval Argentina (Coast Guard) for authorization for the polar research ship "Polarstern" to enter Port Stanley from the Neumayer III Station in Antarctica.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/01/lu ... -malvinas/

So Germany and Lufthansa covered all bases and everyone's happy. Or so it seems.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:41 am

c933103 wrote:
13700km is quite long for a 359, with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR, and I believe Falkland is also relatively isolated from other alternative


DylanHarvey wrote:
Only because it’s an A359 does everyone suddenly question if it can make it. At 280t and full fuel which is around 37t of payload at 135T DOw, 108.3t of usable fuel, 8t of reserve, 5.8/hr, you should be good for around 17:30 endurance, well over 300pax.


AirbusOnly wrote:
I think we can all assume that Lufthansa knows exactly what they are doing and that they calculated the distance, weight and route etc. precisely and chosed the type of aircraft quite deliberately. Lufthansa is still a highly reputable airline! So we all don't need to worry that the A 350 can't make it non-stop.


Literally only 1 post in the 33 posts made has cast doubt on the capability of the A359 to do this flight.

The fact is that it will be an effortless task for an A359 as Dylan rightfully points out.

The A359 is capable of doing this flight. Period.

It's only news because it is out of the ordinary for LH to be flying this far, to this particular destination, for the reason it is being operated and because the aviation world is desperately (and understandably) seeking any sliver of positive news in an otherwise dire point in the history of the industry and the world in general.
 
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conaly
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:54 pm

A second flight is scheduled for today 2130 local (1930UTC). Same flight number LH2574, but with D-AIXQ today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh2574
https://www.aero.de/news-39236/Lufthans ... rueck.html
 
330lover
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:07 pm

How long are crew and plane staying in the Falklands?
Do they have to stay in quarantaine in their hotel rooms (in Stanley, I suppose) due to Covid?
Just wondering...
 
fraT
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:06 pm

The return flight is planned for 02APR arriving in HAM on the next day. So two night down there.
At least on the first trip the crew had to stay in their hotel rooms.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:41 am

MoKa777 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
13700km is quite long for a 359, with the SQ's flight to LAX only some 400km longer yet that was flown with a 359ULR, and I believe Falkland is also relatively isolated from other alternative


DylanHarvey wrote:
Only because it’s an A359 does everyone suddenly question if it can make it. At 280t and full fuel which is around 37t of payload at 135T DOw, 108.3t of usable fuel, 8t of reserve, 5.8/hr, you should be good for around 17:30 endurance, well over 300pax.


AirbusOnly wrote:
I think we can all assume that Lufthansa knows exactly what they are doing and that they calculated the distance, weight and route etc. precisely and chosed the type of aircraft quite deliberately. Lufthansa is still a highly reputable airline! So we all don't need to worry that the A 350 can't make it non-stop.


Literally only 1 post in the 33 posts made has cast doubt on the capability of the A359 to do this flight.

The fact is that it will be an effortless task for an A359 as Dylan rightfully points out.

The A359 is capable of doing this flight. Period.

It's only news because it is out of the ordinary for LH to be flying this far, to this particular destination, for the reason it is being operated and because the aviation world is desperately (and understandably) seeking any sliver of positive news in an otherwise dire point in the history of the industry and the world in general.


With a puny 92 passengers on board the A333 is probably the only LH widebody that can´t make it non-stop, with the A343 being marginal.

The A359 was likely just the aircraft that could generate the flight at the lowest cost, its not like they are extremely busy at the moment.

best regards
Thomas
 
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747classic
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Re: Longest Lufthansa flight: 13,700km Hamburg - Falkland Islands

Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:07 am

" Half of the group consists of climate scientist ": why dont they make an intermediate technical stop, that will save a lot of fuel and polution.

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