Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
entdoc
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:34 pm

Once again at least according to this report and others in the Hebrew press a certain ethnic subgroup chose to blatantly ignore corona mask regulations.

If this true and if the UA crew was aware of this (and it probably occurred well before the flight hit the NAT overwater)
why didn’t they land and dump the violators in Goose Bay. Or later in Iceland or Greenland?

And why did they not alert authorities at TLV and arrest the whole lot??

Just wondering how true the story really is.
And if it is bad show by UA and other authorities.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredi-pa ... dium=email


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
gdg9
Posts: 1025
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:07 pm

Well, as the Canadian border is basically closed for air travel, I suspect they would only allow medical or aircraft emergencies, rather than disorderly passengers as a reason to divert.
@dfwtower
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:14 pm

This article does not look good for anyone.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10578
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:41 pm

Wonder what action the government of Israel will take about this or on enforcement of rules concerning quarantine.
 
ATCJesus
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:39 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:47 pm

gdg9 wrote:
Well, as the Canadian border is basically closed for air travel, I suspect they would only allow medical or aircraft emergencies, rather than disorderly passengers as a reason to divert.


Lol, if a captain says they have to divert ATC around the world will do whatever they can to get the plane on the ground and deal with the aftermath at that point.
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:15 pm

entdoc wrote:
Once again at least according to this report and others in the Hebrew press a certain ethnic subgroup chose to blatantly ignore corona mask regulations.

If this true and if the UA crew was aware of this (and it probably occurred well before the flight hit the NAT overwater)
why didn’t they land and dump the violators in Goose Bay. Or later in Iceland or Greenland?

And why did they not alert authorities at TLV and arrest the whole lot??

Just wondering how true the story really is.
And if it is bad show by UA and other authorities.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredi-pa ... dium=email


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not surprised they don’t wear masks in parts of NYC. They hold large funerals and weddings. And the religious schools have no social distancing. I bet nothing will be done who wants to crack down and be labeled anti Semitic
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3514
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:16 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
entdoc wrote:
Once again at least according to this report and others in the Hebrew press a certain ethnic subgroup chose to blatantly ignore corona mask regulations.

If this true and if the UA crew was aware of this (and it probably occurred well before the flight hit the NAT overwater)
why didn’t they land and dump the violators in Goose Bay. Or later in Iceland or Greenland?

And why did they not alert authorities at TLV and arrest the whole lot??

Just wondering how true the story really is.
And if it is bad show by UA and other authorities.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredi-pa ... dium=email


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m not surprised they don’t wear masks in parts of NYC. They hold large funerals and weddings. And the religious schools have no social distancing. I bet nothing will be done who wants to crack down and be labeled anti Semitic


which is why there probably wasn't a lot of pushback onboard.
 
entdoc
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Wonder what action the government of Israel will take about this or on enforcement of rules concerning quarantine.

None at all. If current PM antagonizes this group he fears that he will lose election


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22026
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:46 pm

They're so extremist that they blatantly violate Jewish law. I just don't understand these people.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3878
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:03 pm

Looks like Israel has closed down all international air travel until 1/31 except for cargo, medical flights.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:11 pm

Reading the comments on that tweet, I cannot understand what some folks expect the flight crew to do in this case. This is a case where they're [email protected] if they do and [email protected] if they don't. Crew cannot *force* pax to wear masks; all that can be done is continual advisement of mask compliance policy, followed by appropriate handling with local authorities upon arrival, and filing of incident reports for subsequent review by Corporate Security (i.e. ban on future travel with the airline).
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:14 pm

The police raided over a dozen Hasidic religious gatherings in Montreal this weekend for Covid non-compliance. In one case 43 Hasidic men rushed the cops and fled.
 
Trk1
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:46 pm

They should have landed the plane and had them removed and billed for the extra costs to everyone.
 
ggflyboy
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:10 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:40 pm

I’m just left trying to rationalize how anyone could conclude that drinking in the bathroom would somehow be more sanitary. The bathroom is a choke point for all passengers and is contaminated with all kinds of human disease “elements” from aerosols to you know what. Maybe things were just that bad in the cabin?
 
BENAir01
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:56 am

The Hasid populations of New York and Jerusalem are notoriously non-compliant when it comes to COVD restrictions, distancing, and mask use. They also often don't pay taxes and because of that don't get trash pickup. It is an embarrassment to my religion and culture.
It's likely that there were so many Orthodox on this flight that it was just too much for the crew to be able to deal with. And if there's a rabbi on the flight, many people will listen to them more and give them more respect than they do to the captain. The crew is unfortunately powerless in a situation like this.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:03 am

BENAir01 wrote:
The Hasid populations of New York and Jerusalem are notoriously non-compliant when it comes to COVD restrictions, distancing, and mask use. They also often don't pay taxes and because of that don't get trash pickup. It is an embarrassment to my religion and culture.
It's likely that there were so many Orthodox on this flight that it was just too much for the crew to be able to deal with. And if there's a rabbi on the flight, many people will listen to them more and give them more respect than they do to the captain. The crew is unfortunately powerless in a situation like this.


Hopefully, United banned the offenders from future flying; that would be especially sweet if they had planned on a round-trip with a return to the USA...

;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2203
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:58 am

DL757NYC wrote:
I’m not surprised they don’t wear masks in parts of NYC. They hold large funerals and weddings. And the religious schools have no social distancing. I bet nothing will be done who wants to crack down and be labeled anti Semitic


Yep, and in the town of Lakewood in NJ. Lakewood and the adjacent towns have 75% of the covid cases in Ocean County despite being only 50% of the population. And yes, a group got booted off of facebook for pointing this out long before the recent wave of removals. I don't care what religion you practice as long as you abide by public safety laws. That being said, I know there are plenty of other "knuckleheads" as Governor Murphy calls them who are not Jewish, even he won't say the name of the town in his news briefings only recently referring to "Ocean County" as a hotspot.
 
entdoc
Topic Author
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:53 am

BENAir01 wrote:
The Hasid populations of New York and Jerusalem are notoriously non-compliant when it comes to COVD restrictions, distancing, and mask use. They also often don't pay taxes and because of that don't get trash pickup. It is an embarrassment to my religion and culture.
It's likely that there were so many Orthodox on this flight that it was just too much for the crew to be able to deal with. And if there's a rabbi on the flight, many people will listen to them more and give them more respect than they do to the captain. The crew is unfortunately powerless in a situation like this.

What you say about the herd mentality is right. But airline regulations are meant to be followed.
And after Biden signed a law requiring masks should be legally enforceable.
If the crew is powerless then put down ASAP under circumstances and offload the offenders to the hands of law enforcement. Or return to point of origin and do the same. And bill the offenders every last cent of expenses incurred.
Why were they even allowed into EWR or an the plane without masks????

And put them on global no fly list. Well maybe except for Cubana and the North Korean airline.

Poor show IMHO by UA not to do this. At TLV guaranteed nothing will be done. And these lot will fly again and infect others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:43 pm

I wonder if UA is trying to somehow look the other way in order to appease the Israeli government.

I recall a month or so back they kicked off a couple of travelers for causing a stir regarding the way that Orthodox passengers were wearing their masks on a EWR-TLV flight. Granted the travelers seemed borderline discriminatory in this case but if UA had no issue with kicking them off, they should have done something about those not wearing a mask.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
jayunited
Posts: 3203
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:41 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I wonder if UA is trying to somehow look the other way in order to appease the Israeli government.

I recall a month or so back they kicked off a couple of travelers for causing a stir regarding the way that Orthodox passengers were wearing their masks on a EWR-TLV flight. Granted the travelers seemed borderline discriminatory in this case but if UA had no issue with kicking them off, they should have done something about those not wearing a mask.



So an onboard security situation that triggered a gate return and the subsequent removal of passengers again for a security situation not mask related now has United looking the other way to appease the Israeli Government? Seriously you have to be joking.

The flight took off last Thursday the same day the Biden Administration signed executive orders requiring mask on federal grounds including airplanes. While these passengers should have worn their masks for the entire flights as instructed, since when did removing a mask become an emergency requiring an international flight to land immediately?

UA's EWR-TLV flights operate with a 3 person crew therefore any diversion during normal times would mean the crew times out once on the ground. The crew would then need 24 hours free from duty before the flight could continue. But these are not normal times diverting an international flight during a pandemic when most international borders are either closed or there are strict requirement regarding entry is not to be taken lightly. Flights in a real emergency situation should by all mean divert, as no country would turn away a flight in dire need of help. This situation was not an emergency but it would have created huge problems for everyone onboard and for United Airlines had the captain chosen to divert Goose Bay or Iceland because the crew legally would not have been able to continue on to TLV, and pandemic entry restrictions would have complicated the matter even more.

The passenger who was interviewed by The Times of Israel embellished the situation to sell their story, going to the lavatory to drink water because they didn't feel safe in the cabin? Seriously the lavatory of all places is the cleanest safest place from COVID on an aircraft? Give me a break.

The truth is the flight wasn't 3/4 full at all in fact internal documentations shows out of 274 premium economy/E+/economy seats there were only 71 passengers total in those sections with another 20 in business class, and the large group they referred to was only around 10 people. They did take off their masks during boarding but put them back on while the aircraft was on the ground but removed them again once the flight was in the air. The flight attendants did file an internal report however the report does not state at which phase of flight flight attendants were notified these passengers had once again removed their mask.

The Points Guy got a hold of this from Twitter at least they attempted to do some research. They did get the total number of passengers in coach wrong at 78. However they did claim they asked United, American, and Delta if they would divert an international flight for mask compliance all three stated flight attendants are trained in deescalation but none, none of the US3 would formally state whether they would divert an international flight simply because a passenger or passengers refuse to wear their mask.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/ewr-tlv-m ... nce-issue/

"I checked in with representatives at American Airlines, Delta and United to get a better idea of how they might handle a similar situation. All three noted that their flight attendants are trained in de-escalation, and wouldn’t specifically comment on whether an incident like this would have led to a diversion. "https://thepointsguy.com/news/ewr-tlv-mask-compliance-issue/
 
alfa164
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: CoVid violations on UA to TLV

Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:29 pm

jayunited wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I wonder if UA is trying to somehow look the other way in order to appease the Israeli government.
I recall a month or so back they kicked off a couple of travelers for causing a stir regarding the way that Orthodox passengers were wearing their masks on a EWR-TLV flight. Granted the travelers seemed borderline discriminatory in this case but if UA had no issue with kicking them off, they should have done something about those not wearing a mask.

So an onboard security situation that triggered a gate return and the subsequent removal of passengers again for a security situation not mask related now has United looking the other way to appease the Israeli Government? Seriously you have to be joking.
The flight took off last Thursday the same day the Biden Administration signed executive orders requiring mask on federal grounds including airplanes. While these passengers should have worn their masks for the entire flights as instructed, since when did removing a mask become an emergency requiring an international flight to land immediately?
UA's EWR-TLV flights operate with a 3 person crew therefore any diversion during normal times would mean the crew times out once on the ground. The crew would then need 24 hours free from duty before the flight could continue. But these are not normal times diverting an international flight during a pandemic when most international borders are either closed or there are strict requirement regarding entry is not to be taken lightly. Flights in a real emergency situation should by all mean divert, as no country would turn away a flight in dire need of help. This situation was not an emergency but it would have created huge problems for everyone onboard and for United Airlines had the captain chosen to divert Goose Bay or Iceland because the crew legally would not have been able to continue on to TLV, and pandemic entry restrictions would have complicated the matter even more.
The passenger who was interviewed by The Times of Israel embellished the situation to sell their story, going to the lavatory to drink water because they didn't feel safe in the cabin? Seriously the lavatory of all places is the cleanest safest place from COVID on an aircraft? Give me a break.
The truth is the flight wasn't 3/4 full at all in fact internal documentations shows out of 274 premium economy/E+/economy seats there were only 71 passengers total in those sections with another 20 in business class, and the large group they referred to was only around 10 people. They did take off their masks during boarding but put them back on while the aircraft was on the ground but removed them again once the flight was in the air. The flight attendants did file an internal report however the report does not state at which phase of flight flight attendants were notified these passengers had once again removed their mask.
The Points Guy got a hold of this from Twitter at least they attempted to do some research. They did get the total number of passengers in coach wrong at 78. However they did claim they asked United, American, and Delta if they would divert an international flight for mask compliance all three stated flight attendants are trained in deescalation but none, none of the US3 would formally state whether they would divert an international flight simply because a passenger or passengers refuse to wear their mask.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/ewr-tlv-m ... nce-issue/
"I checked in with representatives at American Airlines, Delta and United to get a better idea of how they might handle a similar situation. All three noted that their flight attendants are trained in de-escalation, and wouldn’t specifically comment on whether an incident like this would have led to a diversion. "https://thepointsguy.com/news/ewr-tlv-mask-compliance-issue/


Thank you for the update. Can you tell us... did UA ban the non-compliant parties from any further travel? While I agree that a diversion would have been excessive in this case, I am sure most people feel a ban would be the most appropriate solution to the problem - and would set a good example, as well.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos