I know that it would be unrealistic for the average person to afford the Aircrafts mentioned in the title, but are there existing older generation jets still flyable like the 707 that one could buy like Travolta did or say finding a DC-10/MD-11 still in pax config? What would the cost of operating each jets today be?

If someone planned to fly it, rather than keep it as a static display, why wouldn't he just buy a 763ER instead, the way the Google guys did? (I guess they bought a 762, actually.) FedEx, UPS and the U.S. Air Force will create a demand for 767 parts for another three decades.

MIflyer12 wrote:

If someone planned to fly it, rather than keep it as a static display, why wouldn't he just buy a 763ER instead, the way the Google guys did? (I guess they bought a 762, actually.) FedEx, UPS and the U.S. Air Force will create a demand for 767 parts for another three decades.

Because the DC-10 is sweeeeeeeet.

MIflyer12 wrote:

If someone planned to fly it, rather than keep it as a static display, why wouldn't he just buy a 763ER instead, the way the Google guys did? (I guess they bought a 762, actually.) FedEx, UPS and the U.S. Air Force will create a demand for 767 parts for another three decades.

As an enthusiast, if I had the cash I would 1000% buy a 727-200 and an L1011-500 over a 767 any day.

Have enough money to buy two but just operate one.

There are probably some in the desert you could bring back to life if you had the money.

Personally if I had that kind of money I would go for a fighter jet any day. An old airliner isn't that exciting, flying one time on one sure, but owning one ? More headaches than pleasure will ensue.

There is a big gap between the last revenu pax flights and your question. In 2020 you had some opportunities but now probably not.
707: Travolta's is VIP configured and allocated for Australia. But they have one there already, I guess if you pay a few million for refurbishment you can have it. Iran has a few pax configured 707s but due to sanctions their maintenance was good but creative, making own parts etc so probably wouldn't be seen as airworthy anywhere, apart from the complications of buying semi-military stuff FROM Iran.
DC-10; in 2010 you could have bought the ex Omni/ATA/Northwest pax birds (Bimans would have dodgy maintenance books) but these are all scrapped now.
MD-11; in 2013-14 KLM would be able to sell some, with PTV's and everything, but all are parts bird now and can't get airworthy anymore. Most other pax MD-11s have been scrapped or became freighters.
Some 727s, DC-9s, 737-200s, MD-80s are for sale now though.

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

I think maybe the DC-10/MD11 you might have a chance since they still have support from the airlines/organizations that still use them. But, like MANY other stated, parts, parts, parts! Even if you managed to get parts, you'd only be able to fly the thing VERY rarely, like on special occasions, not actually have regular pax ops. I don't think you will have a chance for the 707, since the USAF probably snapped everything up.

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

MEA-707

Surprised at your statement about Biman.

One of their DC10's flew to the UK in 2014, then flew a series of enthusiasts flights.

Doubt that the CAA would have allowed this if aircraft was not fully compliant.

These threads are great.

What is the feasibility of fully restoring an L1011 (-500/-1, doesn't matter) instead?
How about a 747 classic, or 737-100?

klm617 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

Not legally, must have a PMA from your regulator and the OEM. The OEM owns the IP in the design, so you’d have to buy it—at great cost.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Not legally, must have a PMA from your regulator and the OEM. The OEM owns the IP in the design, so you’d have to buy it—at great cost.

At some point in the future, does this IP go open source? Do the patents open? Or would it take someone purchasing the IP then open-sourcing it?

Beyond parts, engine overhauls are an issue. Noise is another, many places will not let fly a 727, even hushkitted. Availability of RVSM and other modern avionics requirements might be a problem, and if they exist their cost can be dreadfull.

There also needs to have somebody responsible for continued operationnal safety (or continued airworthiness) of the type. For instance, Boeing is still doing it for 707 as many are flying in military service. Generally OEMs are keen to surrender the TC as soon as possible and it saves cost and liability. BAC 1-11 Concorde Caravelle VC-10 type certificates are all gone and nobody will let you fly them.

And regulators are not really keen on enthusiast flying old airliners. The safety record is poor with a disproportionate number of fatal accidents (DC-3 in the Netherlands, Ju-52 in Switzerland - report released today by coincidence - Convair in South Africa etc.). Consequently, Lufthansa cancelled its flying heritage activity, the Swiss Civil Aviation office limited the Constellation occupancy to 9, effectively killing its operations.

Caymanair wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

If someone planned to fly it, rather than keep it as a static display, why wouldn't he just buy a 763ER instead, the way the Google guys did? (I guess they bought a 762, actually.) FedEx, UPS and the U.S. Air Force will create a demand for 767 parts for another three decades.

As an enthusiast, if I had the cash I would 1000% buy a 727-200 and an L1011-500 over a 767 any day.

Disgraced Peter Nygard has his "Super27" for sale in Bruinswick. They also had JE's 727 but it's gone.

I think I'd take the classic 737-200.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

Not legally, must have a PMA from your regulator and the OEM. The OEM owns the IP in the design, so you’d have to buy it—at great cost.

Also how does this work when restoring planes like a Lockheed Constellation. I am sure some parts have to be custom made due to lack of availability. Is it easier to refurbish used parts. Also wouldn't the OEM be obligated to make the part if it can not be legally produced by someone else.

jreeves96 wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

If someone planned to fly it, rather than keep it as a static display, why wouldn't he just buy a 763ER instead, the way the Google guys did? (I guess they bought a 762, actually.) FedEx, UPS and the U.S. Air Force will create a demand for 767 parts for another three decades.

As an enthusiast, if I had the cash I would 1000% buy a 727-200 and an L1011-500 over a 767 any day.

Disgraced Peter Nygard has his "Super27" for sale in Bruinswick. They also had JE's 727 but it's gone.

I think I'd take the classic 737-200.

I didn't know he was in trouble until I saw this post, I don't keep up with the news I suppose. He always came off as creepy, glad it seemingly has caught up with him. His 727 was so gaudy on the inside, shag carpet with a stripper pole and mirrors, and a door that locked from the cabin side instead of the cockpit side...

It is perhaps the most powerful 727 out there though engine-wise.

tb727 wrote:

jreeves96 wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

As an enthusiast, if I had the cash I would 1000% buy a 727-200 and an L1011-500 over a 767 any day.

Disgraced Peter Nygard has his "Super27" for sale in Bruinswick. They also had JE's 727 but it's gone.

I think I'd take the classic 737-200.

I didn't know he was in trouble until I saw this post, I don't keep up with the news I suppose. He always came off as creepy, glad it seemingly has caught up with him. His 727 was so gaudy on the inside, shag carpet with a stripper pole and mirrors, and a door that locked from the cabin side instead of the cockpit side...

It is perhaps the most powerful 727 out there though engine-wise.

I think you're talking the -100 version. The one for sale is his -200. From Controller it has that typical classy BBJ look inside.

But any person that puts their name on the side of the plane is a no in my book.

rampbro wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Not legally, must have a PMA from your regulator and the OEM. The OEM owns the IP in the design, so you’d have to buy it—at great cost.

At some point in the future, does this IP go open source? Do the patents open? Or would it take someone purchasing the IP then open-sourcing it?

Boeing engineering drawings never go “open source”. Boeing or it’s suppliers own the IP. Someone needing to make parts needs to get OEM support or get PMA authority from the FAA. Either Boeing will build the parts or give the drawings. The FAA doesn’t look kindly at counterfeit parts. Boeing has a process where they will give drawings to airlines so they can locally fabricate parts for urgent needs, but it comes at a cost. Boeing charges annual support fees and requires insurance in their contracts, which isn’t something that anyone on the web can get.

klm617 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

klm617 wrote:

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

Not legally, must have a PMA from your regulator and the OEM. The OEM owns the IP in the design, so you’d have to buy it—at great cost.

Also how does this work when restoring planes like a Lockheed Constellation. I am sure some parts have to be custom made due to lack of availability. Is it easier to refurbish used parts. Also wouldn't the OEM be obligated to make the part if it can not be legally produced by someone else.

Some restorations get OEM support. Other planes like DC-3s are still flying with the operator using authority to manufacture parts from their local regulatory agency. Some parts can be produced if the appropriate engineers with delegated authority from a regulatory authority (such as Designated Engineering Representatives) to approve repairs. While that is probably feasible for restorations and hobby flying for older props, it’s unlikely that you can reliably operate a 707 or DC10 like that without OEM support. I don’t imagine the FAA approving a jet operation without OEM support.

There are some DC10 firefighting planes in operation. They aren’t flying under the same regulations as a passenger plane, which makes things much simpler. The firefighting capability also can justify some of the expense of maintaining the planes. Similarly there are commercial aerial refueling 707s in service. The unique capabilities can justify the expense of maintaining them.

klm617 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

So long as you are operating under FAA part 91 and not for hire you can make your own parts.

I’d like to see the reference for that—all Part 23 plane parts have PMA certification.

I think about the only old aircraft that you can actually get support on is the DC-3 and its military C-47 variant. During the restoration of "That’s All, Brother"; the C-47 that led the airborne operation for the D-day invasion (Operation Overlord) the Confederate Air Force was totally stunned at the number of factory original parts (in their original packaging) that Basler Turbo Conversions had on hand, and the other capabilities of Basler to fabricate other "certified" parts.

Most of the skin on "That’s All, Brother" is still original (Basler had to replace some of it due to corrosion or damage). However, the wiring was replaced with modern insulated wiring and there is a glass based cockpit with all required modern transponders as it was not feasible to restore all the original original flight instruments and radio for active flying. There is a static "original control" panel that is put over the glass cockpit for tours.

"That’s All, Brother" is considered the most accurate restoration of a C-47 ever (85% overall is considered original) and they maintain it as a "flying museum" which appears at airshows nationwide, and was the most expensive restoration that the Confederate Air Force ever has done. The Confederate Air Force was able to raise the money needed due to the historical significance of the aircraft.

Here's a 5 minute video on the restoration and a 13 minute vidoe on its current use (there is almost an hour long documentary out there somewhere on the restoration)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlV383eh6zQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUU-W6ydhIE

So, if you want an older aircraft that you can actually maintain... Get a DC-3

Have a great day,

I've occasionally seen a 747SP on the ramp at ACY. I can imagine lots of gold fixtures and oriental rugs. Pretty cool ride. Also favored by Austin Powers.

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

That's what I was wondering, I was hoping someone would shed the light on the feasibility of a situation where someone who is wealthy enough and bored enough demanded an L1011 as a private jet. How would it go and what hoops would they have to jump through?

I think they’ve all been junked.

Veigar wrote:

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

That's what I was wondering, I was hoping someone would shed the light on the feasibility of a situation where someone who is wealthy enough and bored enough demanded an L1011 as a private jet. How would it go and what hoops would they have to jump through?

People with that kind of money aren’t interested and those interested don’t have that kind of money. Having flown some of the first type, they’re not careless enough to throw money in the dumpster fire resurrecting a L-1011 would be.

Veigar wrote:

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

That's what I was wondering, I was hoping someone would shed the light on the feasibility of a situation where someone who is wealthy enough and bored enough demanded an L1011 as a private jet. How would it go and what hoops would they have to jump through?

Should there be someone with the wealth necessary to bring back an older aircraft - and they are actually interested in doing it for a specific aircraft. All they would do would be to hire a manager and staff to do it for them. They are only really interested in the final use of the aircraft, not in all the details and what it takes to make it happen. You do see some wealthy rebuilding and modernizing certain older yachts and sailboats.

However, all evidence is that these type of people prefer to buy or rent existing modern aircraft, or perhaps invest in something likely to be in production relatively soon.

Have a great day,

7673mech wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

Parts are going to be the big issue. The DC10 has FedEx and the Air Force. The 707 has Omega Air and the Air Force. There simply aren’t enough flying for third party parts brokers to still have any parts left. Everything has been scrapped. It’ll probably be nearly impossible to get one airworthy since all it takes is one part that can’t be found. Boeing would probably decline to sell you mew parts and the scrappers and scavengers already stopped supporting those planes.

An MD11 would be easier to get out of the desert since there are still about 100 of them flying and MROs supporting them. You could probably even contract Western Global to help you.

With a blueprint you could manufacture the parts yourself.

So long as you are operating under FAA part 91 and not for hire you can make your own parts.

Good luck making your own DC10 vintage avionics equipment.

tb727 wrote:

jreeves96 wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

As an enthusiast, if I had the cash I would 1000% buy a 727-200 and an L1011-500 over a 767 any day.

Disgraced Peter Nygard has his "Super27" for sale in Bruinswick. They also had JE's 727 but it's gone.

I think I'd take the classic 737-200.

I didn't know he was in trouble until I saw this post, I don't keep up with the news I suppose. He always came off as creepy, glad it seemingly has caught up with him. His 727 was so gaudy on the inside, shag carpet with a stripper pole and mirrors, and a door that locked from the cabin side instead of the cockpit side...

It is perhaps the most powerful 727 out there though engine-wise.

I was at BQK in December and I can state that JE's 727 is still there, albeit not airworthy anymore

Would not meet noise standards, I remember Allegheny BAC 1-11's departing HVN, noisiest jet liner I ever heard apart from the Concorde.

airlineworker wrote:

Would not meet noise standards, I remember Allegheny BAC 1-11's departing HVN, noisiest jet liner I ever heard apart from the Concorde.

For some planes, can't you hush kit them? And I'm not sure on this, but can't cargo planes bypass some emissions restriction?

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

Yes, there is. It's a launcher aircraft for Pegasus rocket:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargazer_(aircraft)
There were dedicated threads about this particular plane on this forum. Make sure you search not only for "Northrop Grumman", but also for the previous names of the company that developed Pegasus: "Orbital Sciences" and "Orbital ATK".

2175301 wrote:

Veigar wrote:

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

That's what I was wondering, I was hoping someone would shed the light on the feasibility of a situation where someone who is wealthy enough and bored enough demanded an L1011 as a private jet. How would it go and what hoops would they have to jump through?

Should there be someone with the wealth necessary to bring back an older aircraft - and they are actually interested in doing it for a specific aircraft. All they would do would be to hire a manager and staff to do it for them.

Isn't there an L-1011 in a museum somewhere? The archival functions have been done. Keeping something pseudo modern (oof, 1970-era avionics) flying forever is a different task.

I thought that 1 of the BWIA ones was, also one at Tucson.

DohwanKim747 wrote:

tb727 wrote:

jreeves96 wrote:

Disgraced Peter Nygard has his "Super27" for sale in Bruinswick. They also had JE's 727 but it's gone.

I think I'd take the classic 737-200.

I didn't know he was in trouble until I saw this post, I don't keep up with the news I suppose. He always came off as creepy, glad it seemingly has caught up with him. His 727 was so gaudy on the inside, shag carpet with a stripper pole and mirrors, and a door that locked from the cabin side instead of the cockpit side...

It is perhaps the most powerful 727 out there though engine-wise.

I was at BQK in December and I can state that JE's 727 is still there, albeit not airworthy anymore

Ahh, maybe that's why it fell off Controller.

Now that plane is nasty inside.

2175301 wrote:

Veigar wrote:

flybynight wrote:

Are there actually any Tristar's that are actually flying now? Or in a museum? Always liked those. I think only flew on one of them back in the early 80's. It was Eastern.

That's what I was wondering, I was hoping someone would shed the light on the feasibility of a situation where someone who is wealthy enough and bored enough demanded an L1011 as a private jet. How would it go and what hoops would they have to jump through?

Should there be someone with the wealth necessary to bring back an older aircraft - and they are actually interested in doing it for a specific aircraft. All they would do would be to hire a manager and staff to do it for them. They are only really interested in the final use of the aircraft, not in all the details and what it takes to make it happen. You do see some wealthy rebuilding and modernizing certain older yachts and sailboats.

However, all evidence is that these type of people prefer to buy or rent existing modern aircraft, or perhaps invest in something likely to be in production relatively soon.

Have a great day,

Well, we do have a certain someone in Vegas who decided he'd have two 747SP as his fly toys....

I'd love an MD80-90 or A340-600 :p

If you restored a Boeing 707, people wouldn’t pay to fly on it because it’s so similar to a 25 year old 737-400. Indeed if you painted a 707 in current Ryanair livery and parked it next to one of their 737-800s, a general member of the public would not be able to tell you which one was the antique. In fact they’d probably say the 707 was the modern one because of the stinger antennae at the top of the tail. So there’s not much of a wow factor. Old props like Connies and DC-6s, despite being more mechanically challenging than early jets, are aesthetically and in every way a very different experience to a jet, even an early jet, so it has a wide appeal to the public. Flying in a 707 is the same as any modern jet, it’s just 10 times louder and smokier on the outside

777luver wrote:

I'd love an MD80-90 or A340-600 :p

A346, you might have a chance, since there is still some support and spares. MD-90 though? Ehhhhhhh. Well first off, it's a maintenance hog, second, the V2500 on the MD-90 is an earlier variant and is different from the ones that power other planes, and third, there are none in service as of today, so spares and support are going to be an issue.

bennett123 wrote:

I thought that 1 of the BWIA ones was, also one at Tucson.

There has not been an L-1011 at TUS for many years, a decade at least. The last one here did fly out. If memory is correct, it went to the TWA museum at MKC.

I heard John Travolta once say that after he donated his 707, Qantas offered him his own personal 747 for free. He said that he thought about it briefly but decided it was too much airplane (even for him).

By the way, if you want to see what it looks like to have a 707 parked in your driveway, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTScjfUaZDY

Video is incorrect, only one runway, north-south, IIRC. Interesting little air park there, too. The late wife of the Nautilus founder was still running the place, but none of the seven households get along from what I could tell.

I’d love a fully operational DC6B, or a Bristol Brittania. I know. Dream on.

mga707

N910TE of Tristar Experience was a Tucson as recently as 2017. It is now at Kansas City.

There is also N31019 of the National Airliner History Museum and N91011 of Tristar History and Preservation.

N91011 looks quite intact at VCV: https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/ejnwlk

bennett123 wrote:

mga707

N910TE of Tristar Experience was a Tucson as recently as 2017. It is now at Kansas City.

There is also N31019 of the National Airliner History Museum and N91011 of Tristar History and Preservation.

Thanks. Seems like much longer ago that the L-1011 flew out of here (TUS). Guess not.

Even as a private use airplane, older airplanes can be expensive and difficult to maintain. The only current operators of the Boeing 707 are military and the military contractor, Omega Air Refueling services, with 2. For the DC-8, there are about a dozen left in operation, and I think only one is a passenger configuration. The L-1011 is down to 2 or 3, one of which is used by Orbital Sciences as rocket launcher. The DC-10/MD-10 is about to fade away with FedEx retiring its fleet. There are still military variants of the DC-10, and a handful of cargo operators and special use operators like government contractors Omega Air Refueling services and 10 Tanker Air Carrier aerial fire-fighter service. As these airplanes fade from service, and as less expensive to maintain used Boeing 767s and Airbus A330s come onto the market, the 707s, DC-8s, and DC-10s will disappear from even secondary use.