Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
allrite
Posts: 2617
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:49 am

smi0006 wrote:
Wonder if they will be QF branded? Shows the 717 is a good fit capacity wise, but probably struggles on range. I suspect we won’t see QF replace the 717s but perhaps see Cobham, national jet or Alliance pick up more E190s for the contract.


I've caught a couple of Alliance operated Fokkers on the Central Qld - BNE operated for QF and they both retained Alliance branding but, at least on the more recent flight (2017), supplied Qantas branded catering.

Be interesting if Alliance can make the E190 work while VA couldn't.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 12359
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:59 am

First JQ 788 being VKF positioned AVV-ASP for long term storage today

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-vkf
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:11 am

allrite wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Wonder if they will be QF branded? Shows the 717 is a good fit capacity wise, but probably struggles on range. I suspect we won’t see QF replace the 717s but perhaps see Cobham, national jet or Alliance pick up more E190s for the contract.


I've caught a couple of Alliance operated Fokkers on the Central Qld - BNE operated for QF and they both retained Alliance branding but, at least on the more recent flight (2017), supplied Qantas branded catering.

Be interesting if Alliance can make the E190 work while VA couldn't.

The big advantage Alliance has is that they have bought their E90s as distressed assets from airlines have got an amazing deal. VA bought the Embraer fleet from the factory so the unit cost and rate of return required is remarkably different.

I have flown Alliance in the past operating for both QF and VA. In both cases, they were fully Alliance branded apart from the inflight magazines being from the airline for whom the flight was operated. As in-flight magazines are unlikely to ever return, this point of difference won't be an issue going forward.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:59 am

smi0006 wrote:
Interesting development with Alliance picking up some QF flying with E190. Wonder if they will be QF branded? Shows the 717 is a good fit capacity wise, but probably struggles on range. I suspect we won’t see QF replace the 717s but perhaps see Cobham, national jet or Alliance pick up more E190s for the contract.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... city-deal/


Not sure I fully agree with your observation re the 717. The E190 has 16 fewer seats than the 717, and will be replacing 737s on routes that fall well within the range of the 717. IMHO this is a case of Qantas needed more ‘small’ planes and Alliance had them ready to go, rather than choosing the E190 to fill some gap that the 717 could not.

Two things I find interesting: (1) Qantas have the flexibility to flex up and down - seemingly at will - between 3-14 frames, and (2) Qantas Groups pilots will be able to fly the E190 at QQ while stood down. The former is an exceptionally generous contract, the latter is obviously a great opportunity for QF and JQ pilots.


Edit: Assuming that Wikipedia is accurate, the 717 has more range than the E190 (2,648nm v 2,450nm) but the E190 can carry more payload (13,000kg v 12,000kg). Both would have certain route profiles where each is superior to the other, but overall capability is close enough to be petty evenly matched.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:11 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Interesting development with Alliance picking up some QF flying with E190. Wonder if they will be QF branded? Shows the 717 is a good fit capacity wise, but probably struggles on range. I suspect we won’t see QF replace the 717s but perhaps see Cobham, national jet or Alliance pick up more E190s for the contract.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... city-deal/



Two things I find interesting: (1) Qantas have the flexibility to flex up and down - seemingly at will - between 3-14 frames, and (2) Qantas Groups pilots will be able to fly the E190 at QQ while stood down. The former is an exceptionally generous contract, the latter is obviously a great opportunity for QF and JQ pilots.



I assume that QF will have to pick up the cost for the pilot training and certification of its staff on the type not QQ.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:53 am

tullamarine wrote:
The big advantage Alliance has is that they have bought their E90s as distressed assets from airlines have got an amazing deal. VA bought the Embraer fleet from the factory so the unit cost and rate of return required is remarkably different.

I have flown Alliance in the past operating for both QF and VA. In both cases, they were fully Alliance branded apart from the inflight magazines being from the airline for whom the flight was operated. As in-flight magazines are unlikely to ever return, this point of difference won't be an issue going forward.


How long ago was that? I thought QF had ditched the in flight magazine for good to save weight. Was surprised to see it in the QF Business Lounge at BNE in December. Made for a good laugh though: new MacBook Air for 150,000 points......... ummm, seriously?
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 12359
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:14 pm

QF583 SYD-PER operated by EBK is currently diverting to ADL squawking 7700
 
CBRboy
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:15 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Edit: Assuming that Wikipedia is accurate, the 717 has more range than the E190 (2,648nm v 2,450nm) but the E190 can carry more payload (13,000kg v 12,000kg). Both would have certain route profiles where each is superior to the other, but overall capability is close enough to be petty evenly matched.


The Qantas media release linked in the post you replied to says that the E190s have longer (4500km) range than the 717s while elsewhere they give their 717 range with full payload as 2,408km/1,496m.

Edited to add 717 range details
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5842
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:05 pm

qf789 wrote:
QF583 SYD-PER operated by EBK is currently diverting to ADL squawking 7700

Have read this was due to loss of cabin pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
zkncj
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:32 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:

Not sure I fully agree with your observation re the 717. The E190 has 16 fewer seats than the 717, and will be replacing 737s on routes that fall well within the range of the 717. IMHO this is a case of Qantas needed more ‘small’ planes and Alliance had them ready to go, rather than choosing the E190 to fill some gap that the 717 could not.

Two things I find interesting: (1) Qantas have the flexibility to flex up and down - seemingly at will - between 3-14 frames, and (2) Qantas Groups pilots will be able to fly the E190 at QQ while stood down. The former is an exceptionally generous contract, the latter is obviously a great opportunity for QF and JQ pilots.

.


One would assume that the QQ contract would have an term it that allows QF to put pause on the services at very short notice with minimal costs. Compared to the cost of cancelling there own services at short notice.
 
debonair
Posts: 4470
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:18 am

smi0006 wrote:
Interesting development with Alliance picking up some QF flying with E190.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... city-deal/


As QF is holding option for up to 14 E-Jets in all, I guess we are talking about the ex COPA ones, right!?
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:56 am

debonair wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Interesting development with Alliance picking up some QF flying with E190.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... city-deal/


As QF is holding option for up to 14 E-Jets in all, I guess we are talking about the ex COPA ones, right!?


If I recall correctly, the QF deal was for the 2-class ex-AA E190s.

QF competitor VA's agreement with QQ (Alliance) would likely be for the ex-COPA birds (A planned mixture of reconfiguring into 1-class and 2-class in Alliance config).
 
zkncj
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:15 am

Surely post Covid-19, we must be due to see the Qantas Group come out with an domestic fleet simplified long term plan? Across the group, be it that some types are wet leased contracts, the fleet is getting very broad. Which must lead to some operational issues, and multiple different crew groups and equipment required.

Looking at the QF domestic group currently:

QF:
738

QF link:
A320
F100
717
E190 (wet leased)
Q200,300,400

JQ:
A321,320

On of having very mixed types across the group, apart from the JQ a321/320 and you the newer 738s.

A lot of the fleet is starting to sit in the 20-30 years old point of there life.

Surely it must be getting close the need for an major investment needed in replacement of the domestic fleet.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:26 am

SCFlyer wrote:
debonair wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Interesting development with Alliance picking up some QF flying with E190.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... city-deal/


As QF is holding option for up to 14 E-Jets in all, I guess we are talking about the ex COPA ones, right!?


If I recall correctly, the QF deal was for the 2-class ex-AA E190s.

QF competitor VA's agreement with QQ (Alliance) would likely be for the ex-COPA birds (A planned mixture of reconfiguring into 1-class and 2-class in Alliance config).


94 (10J + 84Y) is the former Copa configuration. The AA configuration is 99 (11J + 88Y). Given that QQ’s Fokker fleet reflects their hodge-podge of former operators, there’s no reason to assume that the E190s will be different.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:30 am

CBRboy wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Edit: Assuming that Wikipedia is accurate, the 717 has more range than the E190 (2,648nm v 2,450nm) but the E190 can carry more payload (13,000kg v 12,000kg). Both would have certain route profiles where each is superior to the other, but overall capability is close enough to be petty evenly matched.


The Qantas media release linked in the post you replied to says that the E190s have longer (4500km) range than the 717s while elsewhere they give their 717 range with full payload as 2,408km/1,496m.

Edited to add 717 range details



Not trying to be contrarian, but I couldn’t see any reference to 4500km in the linked article. Regardless, 4500km is 2400nm, so they have quoted the brochure range that I said for the E190. You can’t really compare that to the effective range with full payload, which will always be less than the brochure range.
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 920
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:41 am

delete
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1972
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:05 am

zkncj wrote:
Surely post Covid-19, we must be due to see the Qantas Group come out with an domestic fleet simplified long term plan? Across the group, be it that some types are wet leased contracts, the fleet is getting very broad. Which must lead to some operational issues, and multiple different crew groups and equipment required.

Looking at the QF domestic group currently:

QF:
738

QF link:
A320
F100
717
E190 (wet leased)
Q200,300,400

JQ:
A321,320

On of having very mixed types across the group, apart from the JQ a321/320 and you the newer 738s.

A lot of the fleet is starting to sit in the 20-30 years old point of there life.

Surely it must be getting close the need for an major investment needed in replacement of the domestic fleet.

I wouldn't say it's very mixed considering a lot of airlines do similar things. Plus for QF there's not really many options to replace Q200s (believe I read somewhere that ATRs can't make it to Lord Howe but correct me if I'm wrong).

I personally believe F100s might eventually be replaced by a combination of more 717s, A320s and wet-leased capacities and some of the 738s will eventually be replaced by A32xNEOs but not more than that.

Michael
 
CBRboy
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:32 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Not trying to be contrarian, but I couldn’t see any reference to 4500km in the linked article. Regardless, 4500km is 2400nm, so they have quoted the brochure range that I said for the E190. You can’t really compare that to the effective range with full payload, which will always be less than the brochure range.


I understand. However there's a sentence in the middle of the Qantas media release which starts off "It has longer range than our 717s...". The penultimate sentence says "The E190 offers 10 seats in Business Class and 84 seats in Economy, with a range of about 4,500 kilometres."
 
Deano969
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:12 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:08 pm

I think QF is on the money here
Even when the vaccine has a large uptake both here and across the rest of the world, I can foresee some form of quarantine remaining, particularly when you understand the vaccine will NOT stop anyone contracting CV19 rather, lessen the severity of it. They are hoping with milder symptoms, that this will reduce the spread...
So we can write off international tourism, both inbound and outbound indefinitely even if permitted as 2 weeks quarantine will discourage this with the exception of international students, 457 visa, itinerant workers and long term backpackers who would likely be prepared to do the 2 weeks

Domestic on the other hand should boom as locals will still want to holiday and their only realistic choices will be in Oz and perhaps NZ and some Pacific Islands in a bubble

What I can see moving forward is pretty much what QF is predicting
A330s and 737s on the triangle
A330s trans continental
787s Asia, NZ Fiji and perhaps trans continental
737s on other major city pairs
717s and wet leased 190s on thinner routes

I can't see US, UK, Europe or SA restarting ever except freight with a handful of diplomats, business people or those that live long term OS coming and going
 
CBRboy
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:30 am

Deano969 wrote:
I think QF is on the money here
Even when the vaccine has a large uptake both here and across the rest of the world, I can foresee some form of quarantine remaining, particularly when you understand the vaccine will NOT stop anyone contracting CV19 rather, lessen the severity of it. They are hoping with milder symptoms, that this will reduce the spread...
So we can write off international tourism, both inbound and outbound indefinitely even if permitted as 2 weeks quarantine will discourage this with the exception of international students, 457 visa, itinerant workers and long term backpackers who would likely be prepared to do the 2 weeks


Agree that resumption of what we considered 'normal' international travel is quite some way off. Not only do the vaccines not prevent you contracting the disease, they may not prevent you spreading the virus to others. As I warned recently, the current vaccines may also not be effective against virus mutations. The first evidence of this has come in today, with Astra-Zeneca acknowledging their vaccine has limited efficacy against mild disease caused by the South African variant.

I can't see US, UK, Europe or SA restarting ever except freight with a handful of diplomats, business people or those that live long term OS coming and going


Not restarting ever is a pretty big call...
 
zkncj
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:19 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
I wouldn't say it's very mixed considering a lot of airlines do similar things. Plus for QF there's not really many options to replace Q200s (believe I read somewhere that ATRs can't make it to Lord Howe but correct me if I'm wrong).


Would assume that it’s the runway length in Lord Howe, that is preventing ATR’s from being able to operate there?

3C (Air Chatham’s) is now flying there ATR 72-500 on AKL/WLG/CHC-CHT route which is 2.5-3hours mainly over water.

So wouldn’t think the outbound range from the main land would be the issue, more the range ex Lord Howe.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:34 pm

zkncj wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
I wouldn't say it's very mixed considering a lot of airlines do similar things. Plus for QF there's not really many options to replace Q200s (believe I read somewhere that ATRs can't make it to Lord Howe but correct me if I'm wrong).


Would assume that it’s the runway length in Lord Howe, that is preventing ATR’s from being able to operate there?

3C (Air Chatham’s) is now flying there ATR 72-500 on AKL/WLG/CHC-CHT route which is 2.5-3hours mainly over water.

So wouldn’t think the outbound range from the main land would be the issue, more the range ex Lord Howe.


LDH has a number of unique requirements, one of which is they return tanker fuel. The aircraft must therefore have the range to fly there and back (in addition to alternate etc), and land heavy with the tanks half full. There are some other requirements as well, which means it requires a fairly niche long range, short field aircraft. The Q200 is perfect for this, but it isn’t clear what could replace it.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:18 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
zkncj wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
I wouldn't say it's very mixed considering a lot of airlines do similar things. Plus for QF there's not really many options to replace Q200s (believe I read somewhere that ATRs can't make it to Lord Howe but correct me if I'm wrong).


Would assume that it’s the runway length in Lord Howe, that is preventing ATR’s from being able to operate there?

3C (Air Chatham’s) is now flying there ATR 72-500 on AKL/WLG/CHC-CHT route which is 2.5-3hours mainly over water.

So wouldn’t think the outbound range from the main land would be the issue, more the range ex Lord Howe.


LDH has a number of unique requirements, one of which is they return tanker fuel. The aircraft must therefore have the range to fly there and back (in addition to alternate etc), and land heavy with the tanks half full. There are some other requirements as well, which means it requires a fairly niche long range, short field aircraft. The Q200 is perfect for this, but it isn’t clear what could replace it.


The only real candidate would be an electric prop, that is likely to be developed in the next 10 years. Once they are able to develop something with the return range.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:08 am

The new ATR42-600 STOL version should be fine into LDH. I very much doubt QF would introduce a new type just for that route however
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:34 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
The new ATR42-600 STOL version should be fine into LDH. I very much doubt QF would introduce a new type just for that route however


It has a range of 703nm with 48 pax: https://www.atr-aircraft.com/our-aircra ... 600s-stol/

SYD-LDH return is 825nm. The ATR-42 could do it would take a significant payload hit.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:01 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
The new ATR42-600 STOL version should be fine into LDH. I very much doubt QF would introduce a new type just for that route however


It has a range of 703nm with 48 pax: https://www.atr-aircraft.com/our-aircra ... 600s-stol/

SYD-LDH return is 825nm. The ATR-42 could do it would take a significant payload hit.


Indeed, but currently the Q200 is usually payload restricted i understand, often around 29 pax?

https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... turboprop/
"the standard ATR 42-600 was able takeoff from Lord Howe Island currently, its payload would be limited to around 36 passengers, it was understood."

So im guessing should be able to get up to around 40 pax with the STOL version? The runway extension project has seemingly gone quiet?
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:21 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
The new ATR42-600 STOL version should be fine into LDH. I very much doubt QF would introduce a new type just for that route however


It has a range of 703nm with 48 pax: https://www.atr-aircraft.com/our-aircra ... 600s-stol/

SYD-LDH return is 825nm. The ATR-42 could do it would take a significant payload hit.


Could the Saab340B do it? Range per wiki is 935nmi?
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:28 am

qf2220 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
The new ATR42-600 STOL version should be fine into LDH. I very much doubt QF would introduce a new type just for that route however


It has a range of 703nm with 48 pax: https://www.atr-aircraft.com/our-aircra ... 600s-stol/

SYD-LDH return is 825nm. The ATR-42 could do it would take a significant payload hit.


Could the Saab340B do it? Range per wiki is 935nmi?


Doesnt have the range for LDH ops according to the study.

https://www.lhib.nsw.gov.au/sites/lordh ... 0Issue.pdf

All depends on when QF phase out the Q200. There is no way they would introduce the ATR42 just for that route. Air NZ however.....AKL-NLK-LDH-BNE route......
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:56 am

Could an aftermarket fuel tank be fitted to the Saab?
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:26 am

When QF’s partnership with Alliance about flights into ASP and DRW from ADL was announced, I wondered why they seemed to be somewhat premium heavy, with a large J class on such a small jet.

I got back to thinking of my time in Darwin last year when I bumped into a few people from Katherine. Having struck up a conversation, I made a comment about the Federal government’s announcement, at the time, of the multi-billion AU$ upgrade to Tindal Air Force Base. According to their comments, as soon as the announcement was made, work started ASAP. There had been a massive influx of people into Katherine for work, planning, management, etc.

So I can only assume that QF have recognised this which is why we’re now seeing the increase in services on smaller jets. As well as other factors, of course.

Seems to be a lot of US military personnel in Aus these days. In my last visit to Cairns in December, I noted about a dozen “well built guys” at breakfast at the Hilton Hotel. About an hour later I saw them at the front of the hotel dressed in their “fatigues” while I waited for my tour. I said to them “You’re obviously not Aussie, where are you from?” They said they were from the USAF and were doing training down here. When I left CNS a few days later there was a RAAF C17 and a KC30-MRTT at CNS airport.

Interesting things that you spot when you travel.
 
anstar
Posts: 3445
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:30 am

zkncj wrote:
Surely post Covid-19, we must be due to see the Qantas Group come out with an domestic fleet simplified long term plan? Across the group, be it that some types are wet leased contracts, the fleet is getting very broad. Which must lead to some operational issues, and multiple different crew groups and equipment required.

Looking at the QF domestic group currently:

QF:
738

QF link:
A320
F100
717
E190 (wet leased)
Q200,300,400

JQ:
A321,320

On of having very mixed types across the group, apart from the JQ a321/320 and you the newer 738s.

A lot of the fleet is starting to sit in the 20-30 years old point of there life.

Surely it must be getting close the need for an major investment needed in replacement of the domestic fleet.


QF have over 100 A320 family A/c on order.. so I reckon those will go to Jetstar and also eventually replace the 737 fleet at QF.
 
kriskim
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:30 am

anstar wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Surely post Covid-19, we must be due to see the Qantas Group come out with an domestic fleet simplified long term plan? Across the group, be it that some types are wet leased contracts, the fleet is getting very broad. Which must lead to some operational issues, and multiple different crew groups and equipment required.

Looking at the QF domestic group currently:

QF:
738

QF link:
A320
F100
717
E190 (wet leased)
Q200,300,400

JQ:
A321,320

On of having very mixed types across the group, apart from the JQ a321/320 and you the newer 738s.

A lot of the fleet is starting to sit in the 20-30 years old point of there life.

Surely it must be getting close the need for an major investment needed in replacement of the domestic fleet.


QF have over 100 A320 family A/c on order.. so I reckon those will go to Jetstar and also eventually replace the 737 fleet at QF.


I can’t wait to see what QF does with their fleet of A321XLR!
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:36 pm

Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 447
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:17 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.


If they want to play with the big boys, then they need to put their big boy pants on. We all nobody in the industry is not going to cut them any favours, so they'll either need to step up or get out of the way.

However, not having a clue on how their bookings have been going, these may just be short term fares with limited availability to get that last big awareness push before start up.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9083
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:24 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.


I assume that Rex will write a strongly worded letter to the ACCC about how unfair it is when a new entrant enters a market, adds discount capacity, places downward pressure on fairs and reduces the viability of existing operators on the route.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:39 pm

kriskim wrote:
anstar wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Surely post Covid-19, we must be due to see the Qantas Group come out with an domestic fleet simplified long term plan? Across the group, be it that some types are wet leased contracts, the fleet is getting very broad. Which must lead to some operational issues, and multiple different crew groups and equipment required.

Looking at the QF domestic group currently:

QF:
738

QF link:
A320
F100
717
E190 (wet leased)
Q200,300,400

JQ:
A321,320

On of having very mixed types across the group, apart from the JQ a321/320 and you the newer 738s.

A lot of the fleet is starting to sit in the 20-30 years old point of there life.

Surely it must be getting close the need for an major investment needed in replacement of the domestic fleet.


QF have over 100 A320 family A/c on order.. so I reckon those will go to Jetstar and also eventually replace the 737 fleet at QF.


I can’t wait to see what QF does with their fleet of A321XLR!

I don't think the A321XLR are heading into the domestic fleet. It is likely they will replace the 788s at JQ and maybe allow QF Int'l to open up some thinner routes where the A330s have always been too much plane. This could be routes out of SYD or MEL such as MEL-CGK or flights like ADL-SIN out of smaller cities.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:55 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.


Bye bye Rex...
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3211
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:06 am

qf2220 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.


Bye bye Rex...

It's going to be pretty hard on REX when 100% of their mainline route network (MEL-SYD) is subject to massive discounting. QF and VA have an existing national route network so discounting on MEL-SYD is painful for them but not lethal.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:40 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Rex is further slashing its SYD-MEL fares, now from $49 in economy and $199 in business class for flights in March.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ass-at-199

I get that this is the time-honoured way to launch a new route and indeed a new airline, with massive discounts, but on SYD-MEL and going up against QF/JQ and VA I really don't think this can end well if we end up with a price war which slashes profitability. Good in the very short term for travellers but terrible for longer-term outlook for the industry.


I assume that Rex will write a strongly worded letter to the ACCC about how unfair it is when a new entrant enters a market, adds discount capacity, places downward pressure on fairs and reduces the viability of existing operators on the route.


They were selling $99 Y fares prior to the $49 fares today, so there's speculation that even their (previously) cheap discounted fares wasn't selling in itself.

On another note, it does seem the Singapore company that owns a large stake in REX may be following what their Temasek controlled SIA counterparts (through their former stakes in 3 Australian/NZ airline groups) into leading into a fare war, which is good for the consumer, but damaging in the longer term in regards to viability and sustainability.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:47 am

No matter how low the fares go, people are still only travelling if really necessary at the moment. There is no confidence in leisure travelers to book any trips with border closure, outbreaks etc.

The people travelling right now, are not price motivated.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 866
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:21 am

No surprise when you start a price war: Virgin has price-matched Rex at $49 while Qantas has cut its SYD-MEL starter fares to $110.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ond-to-rex
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2330
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:29 am

qf2220 wrote:
Could an aftermarket fuel tank be fitted to the Saab?


Even the newest 340s are barely newer than the Q200, so I can't see why it would even be considered, even if technically possible.

But at nearly 25yo the Q200s are far and away the oldest aircarft in the Qantas Group fleet. A very thorny issue for the NSW government.
Last edited by Kent350787 on Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:39 am

The other issue with LDH, as i understand there is very limited accommodation on the island and even if there was larger aircraft, due to the lack of accomm, it wouldnt increase overall numbers travelling, so whats the point of the runway extension?
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2190
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:46 am

Kent350787 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Could an aftermarket fuel tank be fitted to the Saab?


Even the neest 340s are barely newer than the Q200, so I can't see why it would even be considered, even if technically possible.

But at nearly 25yo the Q200s are far and away the oldest aircarft in the Qantas Group fleet. A very thorny issue for the NSW government.


Yeah theres no easy (ie cheap) answer on this one. Hence tanks for the Saabs might be a possible option.

Wonder if theres any Saab2000s flying about. They might be an alternative in that family? Though i admit i have no idea if they can even land at LDH.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2330
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:51 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
The other issue with LDH, as i understand there is very limited accommodation on the island and even if there was larger aircraft, due to the lack of accomm, it wouldnt increase overall numbers travelling, so whats the point of the runway extension?


Being able to connect to part of NSW other than by boat? Unfortunately there's no flying boat left that could service the route either.

You would hope that the NSW government was in active discussions around aircraft capability, and it would be interesting to see the cost/benefit analysis of a runway extension vs. subsidising an aircraft capability.

From what I can see, the current QF contract ends in May next year. The LHI Board commissioned review recommended further investigation of a 570m extension to "future proof" for ATR72/Q400 capability. but there is nothing public since.
Last edited by Kent350787 on Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:55 am

[list=][/list]The Saab 2000 has the range but not the runway performance.

Thinking about it, the Dornier 328 would work well, especially the new version, if it happens, introduction around 2025.
Good range, speed and runway performance.
 
Deano969
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:12 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:59 am

Re the REX $49 fare
This is great advertising and has been all over the media
They have said however, this is only available for travel until the end March if booked in February (so an introductory fare)
Let's hope that after the launch, they maintain quality service at budget prices
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5756
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:20 am

qf2220 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Could an aftermarket fuel tank be fitted to the Saab?


Even the neest 340s are barely newer than the Q200, so I can't see why it would even be considered, even if technically possible.

But at nearly 25yo the Q200s are far and away the oldest aircarft in the Qantas Group fleet. A very thorny issue for the NSW government.


Yeah theres no easy (ie cheap) answer on this one. Hence tanks for the Saabs might be a possible option.

Wonder if theres any Saab2000s flying about. They might be an alternative in that family? Though i admit i have no idea if they can even land at LDH.

The problem with the 2000 is that they are sufficiently different from the 340 that there isn’t a huge family benefit. That and the fact they never really gained traction in this part of the world (or really anywhere) would seem to count against them.

V/F
 
zkncj
Posts: 4510
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:24 am

What is REX’s plan b? With interstate travel look more and more less likely in 2021.

It seems they are set to lose money very fast with there new 738 operation that was meant to be starting next month.
 
melpax
Posts: 2287
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread- February 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:06 am

Melbourne entering a 5 day lockdown from Midnight.

Main cause for concern is a cafe worker in MEL terminal 4 who contracted the UK strain from their housemate, who is a hotel quarantine worker.

Everyone who has passed through T4 on Tuesday has been forced into 14 days isolation as a result.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-12/ ... t/13146204

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos