Welcome to our new thread Turkish Aviation fans,

There is light at the end of the tunnel even though things seem to be very dire at the moment.
We will get through this.



-Please continue where we left off from the last thread about, TK arrival of 350s and the rest of the jets
-As expected, EASA gave the green light to MAX last month. Let’s see if TK will have them up and running by summer.
-TK Cargo is doing great and growing.
-February sees some frequency reductions from Turkey to the USA; for example JFK goes from 13xW to 10xW, SFO 6xW to 4xW.
-Here is how bad I am with predictions 6 years ago on one one of our threads, I predicted that TK will be on par with EK by 2021, with over 500 frames and a new airport. As usual, we make plans then life happens

Please continue with your news, views, photos, rumors and good old sense of humor.
You can find last months thread here: Turkish Aviation January 2021

Thanks for a new thread . Is there any update on the metro from the airport ? Either I missed it or forgot .

OA260 wrote:

Thanks for a new thread . Is there any update on the metro from the airport ? Either I missed it or forgot .

-AFAIK, from the airport to Kagithane station will be opened first, by April and the rest of the M11 to Gayrettepe by the end of the year.
-Also, SAW will hopefully, finally will get its subway extension finished by the end of this year, connecting it to Kadikoy via M4.
You can find some info in Turkish here: https://www.metro.istanbul/Hatlarimiz/P ... aat=0&q=39
Also, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M11_(Istanbul_Metro)

TK787 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Thanks for a new thread . Is there any update on the metro from the airport ? Either I missed it or forgot .

-AFAIK, from the airport to Kagithane station will be opened first, by April and the rest of the M11 to Gayrettepe by the end of the year.
-Also, SAW will hopefully, finally will get its subway extension finished by the end of this year, connecting it to Kadikoy via M4.
You can find some info in Turkish here: https://www.metro.istanbul/Hatlarimiz/P ... aat=0&q=39
Also, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M11_(Istanbul_Metro)

Thanks for the info its quicker then I thought so good to see. This time last year I was flying TK J class to the new airport with a nice few days in Istanbul. Hopefully it wont
be too long before I can get back again.

OA260 wrote:

Hopefully it wont be too long before I can get back again.

You and me both. I keep booking flights and cruises into the future

Happy vaccination to all.

I think we will wake up a different market after the pandemic. Whoever prepares and works hard for the post-pandemic period will be the winners. Turkey has a chance to further upscale its position for this new era with its strategic location, tourism potential and culture. It is all good that infrastrucure investments are continuing at full pace.

There are a group of retired aircraft at IST which were going to be sold off in mid January. They included 3 A300 and 2 or 3 MD80 plus an AN12.

Does anyone know what happened to them.

TK787 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Thanks for a new thread . Is there any update on the metro from the airport ? Either I missed it or forgot .

-AFAIK, from the airport to Kagithane station will be opened first, by April and the rest of the M11 to Gayrettepe by the end of the year.
-Also, SAW will hopefully, finally will get its subway extension finished by the end of this year, connecting it to Kadikoy via M4.
You can find some info in Turkish here: https://www.metro.istanbul/Hatlarimiz/P ... aat=0&q=39
Also, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M11_(Istanbul_Metro)

Regretfully to say:

1) These are mostly some fairy tales that the authorities sing out, but mostly do not come out true for the given dates... Say, you're in the airport for your flight at 10:00. The boards indicate no nothing about your flight is going to be delayed but that plane is still out there that needs to fly another hour for touch down let alone that additional 4r0-60 min. needed for the turnaround. So you expect all is on time, but it isn't. But you get "your flight will be delayed" warning on the boards only at 9:30. These metro line openings should be considered with the same analogy.

2) As for the M11 (the New Istanbul Airport metro link), there is a small chance that they might hold the "opening, ribbon cutting ceremony" this April or May 2021 at the Kâğıthane Station. But this doesn't necessarily mean that they can start carrying passengers the next day. This is a driverless metro line and extensive tests and alignments are needed to be made before they can start carrying passengers. It took these tests a good 5-6 months after when everything looked ready for the M5 metro line in Istanbul. The second driverless line, the M7, fell victim to the pandemic and got delayed even further. To make things worse for this M11 line: most probably it will not be the the Istanbul Municipality who will be operating this line. It's been built and funded by the State (=Ministry of Transport) and they will most probably want to operate it themselves in order not to provide any credit to the Istanbul Municipality which is in the hands of the opposition party. The rolling stock is also ordered and owned by the State! Buuut, the Ministry of Transport and its affiliates have absolutely zero experience for operating metrolines. The State Railways Co. (operating under the said Ministry) is having difficulty in operating even the normal train services thanks to the highly political decisions and employing quite a number of people not with the required expertise.

3) Sabiha Gökçen metro is an extension of the M4 line (presently operated by Istanbul Municipality) but is being built and funded by again the Ministry of Transport. They may not be that much inclined to operate this extension themselves (the rolling stock is owned by Istanbul Municipality). But against what's being said out there, we know this project has been deliberately delayed by the Ministry and very regularly so far, and there's no chance they can start carrying passengers by the end of 2021. So many things are still missing... The best estimate will be for mid-2022, if not later!...

Please keep in mind that we are living in Turkey and our authorities are mostly shameless enough even for not providing any explanation or excuses for the dates/promises not being kept. Don't blindly or naively believe in everything that's been even in writing!

Thanks for that mafaky.
6 months delay is not that bad, especially when the air traffic is not expected to return to anywhere normal by then. Even longer is OK.
Selfishly I will never use M11 to IST, but SAW.... I might... and it is a shame that it has been delayed, most likely deliberately
For people that are not familiar with this... IST is built to make money, at the expense of SAW (Istanbul's other smaller airport, home to Pegasus, a Turkish LCC). That is why it has been 6 years or so to build the second runway at SAW, finish the subway connection, and finish a new terminal.... hoping these would funnel more pax to IST, especially domestic.
Fingers crossed, in a year or two SAW will finally get all of those to be a true international airport, including heavies.

TK787 wrote:

Thanks for that mafaky.
.... hoping these would funnel more pax to IST, especially domestic.
Fingers crossed, in a year or two SAW will finally get all of those to be a true international airport, including heavies.

Well, don't also forget or underestimate that those in Ankara also hold the weapon to limit the slots at SAW and they will shamelessly and blatantly use that weapon even after the second runway becomes operational and/or a second new terminal is constructed, at SAW.

They will only learn thir lessons, when and if several European carriers begin full operations from Lufthansa (e.g. LH, BA, KL, AF etc.).

Before pandemic days, it was actually QR flying three times daily to SAW, albeit mostly with narrow bodies but that's a serious sign.

TK first two A350's TC-LGA and TC-LGB have been operating IST - MNL in recent weeks, with occasional IST-LHR services.

Today Febr. 2, 2021 is the first IST-AMS-IST service with A350 TC-LGB:

- TK 1951 IST-AMS A350-900 TC-LGB

https://www.flightradar24.com/THY3FL/26b92de2

Febr. 4, 2021 - Inaugural scheduled service for TK's 3rd A350 TC-LGC:

- 29 Jan 2021 TLS - IST TK6836 A350 TC-LGC
- 04 Feb 2021 IST - AMS TK1951 A350 TC-LGC
- 04 Feb 2021 AMS - IST TK1952 A350 TC-LGC

https://www.flightradar24.com/THY3FL/26bd91b3

I was on Google Maps recently and looked at 3 Istanbul airports. Even these images are dated but still... just Wow!!! interesting stuff.
-You can see dozens of TK jets parked at IST
-It is a shame to see that "hospital" on top of two runways at ISL. One can clearly see a wide open parking space (old "Y" section) which would have been more suitable if a hospital needed to be built there. That "Y" area (near the old AirForce facility) is sitting empty now
-SAW, second runway almost finished. Time to start the new terminal between runways.

The 15th Turkish Airlines 787-9 TC-LLP move to the compass rose for a maintenance engine run. Does anyone know if TK is delaying delivery and or reducing any 787 orders like they did with 350, The 14th 787 was delivered 5 months ago this particular frame siting around since October.
http://www.paineairport.com/kpae19020r.htm

TK787 wrote:

I was on Google Maps recently and looked at 3 Istanbul airports. Even these images are dated but still... just Wow!!! interesting stuff.
-You can see dozens of TK jets parked at IST
-It is a shame to see that "hospital" on top of two runways at ISL. One can clearly see a wide open parking space (old "Y" section) which would have been more suitable if a hospital needed to be built there. That "Y" area (near the old AirForce facility) is sitting empty now
-SAW, second runway almost finished. Time to start the new terminal between runways.

Is/was the hospital even used?

Regretfully saying: It will be a mistake to declare the second rwy at SAW as "nearly finished". They cannot go on with the construction at full pace. No, this time there's no deliberate delaying. There is a dual highway tunnel going below the new rwy and there have been some problems in the construction of these tunnels. In fact more than one problems have been encountered. Tee most recent ones is that they are "slowly and milimetrically sinking"! So now they are going ahead with the re-enforcement of these tunnels and the rwy construction is further delayed. When can they finish it (completely, with the lighting systems, ILS, etc.)? Possibly a year's time from now on (My gutfeel).

In any case, when when this second rwy becomes operational, I have the feeling that the present rwy will be closed for further re-enforcement and maybe a few hundred meters of extension. These may take as long as another year. Thanks to the Covid-19 pandemic, civil aviation operations have slowed down and the second (*) terminal will not be in very urgent need, perhaps even when both rwys are declared fully and safely operational.

There are a number of recent speculations about this new terminal: there's only one location as where it cann be constructed but who's going to build (or finance) it, will it consist of one main terminal plus 1 or 2 satellite terminals are presently the gray points. There also are sone rumors that the present master operator of SAW (state owned HEAŞ) will turn over its functions and ownership to the state-owned DHMİ (the latter only handles the ATC ops at SAW).

When things get more solid, I'll keep you informed and updated.

(*) It's technically a mistake to declare the to-be-built new terminal at SAW as "the 2nd terminal" as there already are 2 terminals at SAW, presently. The very first terminal when SAW was opened (a small one, without air bridges) is still intact but closed. This one is the actual 1st terminal. SAW's leased operator (ISG A.Ş., presently owned by the Malaysians) has also been paying for this unused terminal and it has not been demolished. It can be put into use after some renovations, etc. in case absolutely needed. So the new terminal will technically be the 3rd terminal and the present big terminal is the 2nd. terminal.

TK773ER wrote:

The 15th Turkish Airlines 787-9 TC-LLP move to the compass rose for a maintenance engine run. Does anyone know if TK is delaying delivery and or reducing any 787 orders like they did with 350, The 14th 787 was delivered 5 months ago this particular frame siting around since October.
http://www.paineairport.com/kpae19020r.htm

How's the delayed A350 delivery schedule looking now?

Sorry, I couldn't resist From today's Turkish Cumhuriyet newspaper :
"Gazete, İsrailli ATR72 firmasına ait uçağın İstanbul Havalimanı'na iniş için Türk ve İsrail yetkililerinden tam onay aldığını belirtti."
And, this is the Google translation doing a pretty good job
"The newspaper stated that the plane belonging to the Israeli ATR72 company received full approval from the Turkish and Israeli authorities for landing at Istanbul Airport."
An Israeli airplane landed at IST on Feb 7th, but by mistake the newspaper makes it sound like the name of the airline is "ATR72"
Probably, it is an ISRAIR plane.

TK787 wrote:

Sorry, I couldn't resist From today's Turkish Cumhuriyet newspaper :
"Gazete, İsrailli ATR72 firmasına ait uçağın İstanbul Havalimanı'na iniş için Türk ve İsrail yetkililerinden tam onay aldığını belirtti."
And, this is the Google translation doing a pretty good job
"The newspaper stated that the plane belonging to the Israeli ATR72 company received full approval from the Turkish and Israeli authorities for landing at Istanbul Airport."
An Israeli airplane landed at IST on Feb 7th, but by mistake the newspaper makes it sound like the name of the airline is "ATR72"
Probably, it is an ISRAIR plane.

Let alone that stupid mistake, I wonder why nobody (inc. more pro Aviation websites in Turkish) failed or deliberately avoided mentioning "Israir"s identity. Furthermore, the way these news are done, it gives you the impression that some pax arrived from Israel. If the photo shows the actual plane which arrived from Israel (registration: TC-ATJ), this is only a cargo conversion frame. Enlarge that photo and you will clearly see the cargo door.

mafaky wrote:

TK787 wrote:

Sorry, I couldn't resist From today's Turkish Cumhuriyet newspaper :
"Gazete, İsrailli ATR72 firmasına ait uçağın İstanbul Havalimanı'na iniş için Türk ve İsrail yetkililerinden tam onay aldığını belirtti."
And, this is the Google translation doing a pretty good job
"The newspaper stated that the plane belonging to the Israeli ATR72 company received full approval from the Turkish and Israeli authorities for landing at Istanbul Airport."
An Israeli airplane landed at IST on Feb 7th, but by mistake the newspaper makes it sound like the name of the airline is "ATR72"
Probably, it is an ISRAIR plane.

Let alone that stupid mistake, I wonder why nobody (inc. more pro Aviation websites in Turkish) failed or deliberately avoided mentioning "Israir"s identity. Furthermore, the way these news are done, it gives you the impression that some pax arrived from Israel. If the photo shows the actual plane which arrived from Israel (registration: TC-ATJ), this is only a cargo conversion frame. Enlarge that photo and you will clearly see the cargo door.

It was an Israeli registered ATR. 4X-ATI
Don't know where you are getting the TC- from?

Besides, according to the caption of the company's latest post on Instagram and translated through Google, this was a passenger flight. No idea which direction they were going though.

Sorry, for my mistake: of course, that plane's registration should be 4X-abc!... However, this is the photo given in a Turkish Aviation Website:

see: https://www.airlinehaber.com/10-yil-son ... turkiyede/

So, clearly this is a 4X-ATJ registration and vert clearly it's a cargo conversion!... (However, I cannot fully claim if the background is the New Istanbul Airport or not!)

mafaky wrote:

Sorry, for my mistake: of course, that plane's registration should be 4X-abc!... However, this is the photo given in a Turkish Aviation Website:

see: https://www.airlinehaber.com/10-yil-son ... turkiyede/

So, clearly this is a 4X-ATJ registration and vert clearly it's a cargo conversion!... (However, I cannot fully claim if the background is the New Istanbul Airport or not!)

Ok, but it was 4X-ATI that landed (at the new airport), not 4X-ATJ. And as I said, it was a pax flight according to the airline's social media post.

And all 3 of their ATRs have that cargo door. All combi jets.

Thanks for the info gentlemen.
On other news, TK updated their March schedule and no changes to their US routes, identical to February. Probably will see some increases by May/June.

Now that TK has 3 x 350s, besides Manila, they are using them for Toronto also.

hi all,
As you might know that Saudi Government has limited the entry of passengers who are coming from 20 countries including, Turkey, USA, UK, Germany, Japan, Egypt, Lebanon, UAE, and many more, except for Saudi citizens and health care personals

so I was traveling from IST to Saudi last week, however, I got a call from Saudi Airlines and said that they will cancel my reservation until Saudi government open again, and then I can do a new reservation for free.

please note that there are still flights from Saudi to Turkey from SV and TK, however, they are very limited.

On other news, i saw news from Istanbul municipality saying that they are working on a new metro line from Esenyurt (which is the west side of the city) to Sabiha Gokcen Airport (SAW) (which is the east side of the city) and hopefully will be opened in 2 years time and it will take 55 minutes to reach SAW.

https://www.airporthaber.com/thy-haberl ... -indi.html (in Turkish)
This is interesting.
It says a TK Cargo 77F flying to MIA, took off from ISL (Ataturk) with full load and some fuel and landed at IST, to refuel and continue to MIA.
It says at ISL, runway 5/23 is too short to take off with full load/fuel, so the plane goes to IST, tops off fuel and takes off using the longer runways at IST.
Apparently, in the past they were able to use the longer runways at ISL and refuel in Iceland. (no longer possible due to runways turned into hospital at ISL)
Is it possible to fly IST-MIA full load/fuel non-stop?

Sam Chui posted a new video on his YouTube channel Special Valentine Delivery on Turkish Cargo A330F from IST to London Stansted with a nice Turkish female captain in command here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaSb19 ... el=SamChui

TK773ER wrote:

Sam Chui posted a new video on his YouTube channel Special Valentine Delivery on Turkish Cargo A330F from IST to London Stansted with a nice Turkish female captain in command here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaSb19 ... el=SamChui

i saw the video yesterday, it was really nice and looks that Turkish Cargo has good business current, i saw also they have an online conference (Cargo Talk by Turkish Airline) where Sam himself was the presenter for that online conference.

i saw in the video that the flight took off from IST and returned back to ISL .. any idea when the ISL cargo will be all moved to IST? it's been more than 1 year since IST has fully moved passenger services, and now a lot of cargo services is done thru the passenger's flights, so it's hard to keep on moving cargo shipment from IST to ISL.

Fraport AG contract to operate and manage Antalya Airport was extended till 2026. As part of the agreement, Fraport will be able to defer annual concession fee payments during the 2022-2024 contract years.

https://www.fraport.com/en/newsroom/pre ... ncess.html

amrabari wrote:

i saw in the video that the flight took off from IST and returned back to ISL .. any idea when the ISL cargo will be all moved to IST? it's been more than 1 year since IST has fully moved passenger services, and now a lot of cargo services is done thru the passenger's flights, so it's hard to keep on moving cargo shipment from IST to ISL.

As soon as the cargo support facilities such as warehousing and ramp areas are complete, the first phase expects this year.

Another issue is much of the Istanbul freight forwarder community is built around industrial parks north of ISL, so many need to build or lease warehouses around IST for the economics of scale as well.

Hello guys,

I recently read a new Interview with IGA CEO Kadri Samsunlu published on the german aviation news site aerotelegraph.

amrabari wrote:

.. any idea when the ISL cargo will be all moved to IST? it's been more than 1 year since IST has fully moved passenger services, and now a lot of cargo services is done thru the passenger's flights, so it's hard to keep on moving cargo shipment from IST to ISL.

LAXintl wrote:

As soon as the cargo support facilities such as warehousing and ramp areas are complete, the first phase expects this year.

It also answers your questions about the cargo situation:

- Turkish Cargo will shift its ops from ISL to IST in June 2021
- with that the cargo volume at IST will get 2,5 times bigger and further help to absorb the revenue loss from decreased pax flights

TK787 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Thanks for a new thread . Is there any update on the metro from the airport ? Either I missed it or forgot .

-AFAIK, from the airport to Kagithane station will be opened first, by April and the rest of the M11 to Gayrettepe by the end of the year.

About metro he only mentioned that it will be opened as planned in June 2021

Other interesting things he said have been the following:

- with "only" 23,4 million pax (a decrease of 65%) in 2020, IST was the biggest airport in Europe
- the crisis hit the financial situation of the airport very badly for which reason many cost reductions have been made (but still operating at loss)
- Samsunlu thinks that IST will eventually emerge stronger from the crisis because TK has the ability to feed its flights better through its extensive network and a better fleet mix of narrow and widebody aircraft
- he also mentions that he is more optimistic about the return of pax demand because now there are vaccines avaible and the will of going abroad and flying again dammed up (he also gives China as an example where the recovery happened rapidly)
- he expects about 35 to 40 million pax in 2021
- hygiene measurements are probably going to stay post pandemic
- leisure travel will recover first, Samsunlu still expects that Business travel will return too because not everything can be done via online meetings (e.g. evaulate companies, personal meetings with business partners)
- still worried people who need to travel will try to have more space which means they'll travel in Business Class
- airports planned expansion will start again when pre-crisis levels are achieved again, no exact timeframe
- lastly he wants to make the contactless experience better for which they're in talks with the government too (I think he means border control with that, unfortunately no further infos)

Hope that it was interesting for at least some of you, the post got really long

Here's the source (if someone wants to read it with auto translation): https://www.aerotelegraph.com/interview ... flughaefen

emre787

'he also mentions that he is more pessimistic about the return of pax demand because now there are vaccines available and the will of going abroad and flying again dammed up (he also gives China as an example where the recovery happened rapidly)'.

Do you mean pessimistic or optimistic?.

bennett123 wrote:

emre787

'he also mentions that he is more pessimistic about the return of pax demand because now there are vaccines available and the will of going abroad and flying again dammed up (he also gives China as an example where the recovery happened rapidly)'.

Do you mean pessimistic or optimistic?.

Sry, meant optimistic. Edited it now, thanks

Is Turkey still in a lockdown? Can Turks travel abroad and return without going into quarantine?

I noted IGA posted a video about winter ops at IST.

Never imagined it snows that much in Istanbul as some of the video images show

https://youtu.be/BJ2vmjEevxg

mercure1 wrote:

I noted IGA posted a video about winter ops at IST.

Never imagined it snows that much in Istanbul as some of the video images show

https://youtu.be/BJ2vmjEevxg

It certainly can I have been there a few times during snow fall and causes havoc with flights. A few years back the departure boards were showing multiple delays of between 7-10 hours one time I was there.

ULS Airlines Cargo to get an A330-300P2F.
To be used on pax. charters first until conversion slot is available into a freighter.

Source: https://cargofacts.com/allposts/conversions/uls-acquires-first-a330-ahead-of-conversion/
Full article behind paywall but a sniped of it is available for free.

The ULS frame is former Thomas Cook/MyTravel OY-VKG MSN349.

Good to see one of the Thomas Cook A330 not being scrapped.

Today is the anniversary of the TK's TC-JGE "Tekirdag" crash at AMS in 2009. RIP to all those lost their lives that day

TK to offer hot meals on longhaul flights again starting March 1st.

OTTOMANAIR wrote:

TK to offer hot meals on longhaul flights again starting March 1st.

I wonder if they somehow do an alternating food service so that not everyone eat at the same time. Just an idea..... finish the right side of the plane, then do the whole left side of the plane and take 5 minute brake and do the whole middle section.
I know some US airlines use a similar technique using odd or even flight numbers; to start the service from the back or the front of the J class. Because if you sit at the last row, by the time it is your turn to order, the choices are limited.
For TK, to serve 350 pax at the same time means, 50% or more of the pax will have their masks off at the same time. Staggering the service might be a solution.

OTTOMANAIR wrote:

TK to offer hot meals on longhaul flights again starting March 1st.

What about European / medium-haul flights?

By the way, few days ago, they resumed hot meals & full bar service in Business also on flights <8 hours.

Please continue here:
Turkish Aviation March 2021