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eaa3
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:49 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:30 pm

Is there no info on the config / LOPA of the plane as a whole?
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:30 pm

smflyer wrote:
is this the same seat UA plans on their 737-10 max for transcon service?


If I’m not mistaken I believe they are indeed the same seat that UAL intends to use on the 737-10. The Thompson Aero, Vantage Solo to be exact. I’d also imagine that they would use the same in their A321XLRS that they have on order. With AA also having quite a few XLRs on order, it’s not hard to imagine that the lie flat all aisle access experience is the future of narrowbody long haul.
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:11 pm

There's only so much you can do to dress up a narrow body so that it appears to have more space. While this will be fine for short hops across the Atlantic and to California this definitely won't do for anything longer. Given the choice between this and a wide body, the wide body will win every day of the week. I wish JetBlue the best of luck but this is Not the answer.
I've flown plenty of long-haul flights and nothing can be worse than flying it in a narrow body even with a flatbed seat.
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:15 pm

Stop being cheap JetBlue, buy some wide bodies and put this in one of those and you will have an absolute Blockbuster of a plane.
 
lostsound
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:22 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
Seat1D wrote:
There's only so much you can do to dress up a narrow body so that it appears to have more space. While this will be fine for short hops across the Atlantic and to California this definitely won't do for anything longer. Given the choice between this and a wide body, the wide body will win every day of the week. I wish JetBlue the best of luck but this is Not the answer.
I've flown plenty of long-haul flights and nothing can be worse than flying it in a narrow body even with a flatbed seat.


All of this is emotionally based. The fact of the matter is the average flyer simply does not care, I know I don’t. I’ve flown plenty of 6 hour A32X flights & it’s completely fine. If I’m comfortable in main cabin on a B6 A321 from LAX to JFK then there will be no issue JFK/BOS to London. The A321 allows B6 to maintain fleet commonality and is a great launching point into the segment without trying to fill too many seats. Love it or hate it’s a smart move. If you’re desperate to fly widebodies then book another carrier.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:40 pm

single fleet with narrow body will kill wide body overtime. It has already happened on the domestic transcon markets. Thin TATL market is simply the next domino to drop. The economics of A321LR on these routes are just so much better than wide bodies they will be competing against.

If you look at their layout, it's actually quite snug. There is not a lot of wasted space anywhere. Basically, a little more than 3 Y seat for each J seat. This is about as economical you can get in having all aisle access J cabin.

As for JetBlue being cheap. Well, they are spending $1 billion on capex in 2021, including $295 million in Q1. That's twice as much capex in 2021 as WN and almost same capex as DL for Q1. They are actually spending money pretty aggressively in a time when other airlines are entering austerity.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10694
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:57 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
, the first time I took my wife on a VS flight in upper [.,.] she was happy to not be annoying me.


Wow.
 
QXAS
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:26 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:41 pm

res77W wrote:
QXAS wrote:
Hopefully the BE Diamonds on DL and UA go with the 757s. Obviously AA still has them on their A321T but in that case it’s not their most premium product.


Would a seat like the Safran Fusio work on a narrowbody?

-Rowen

It could potentially work but it would waste a lot of space. Today’s business class seats designed for a 1-2-1 wide body cabin are at the most about 48”-50”across. An A321 fuselage gives seat designers up to 62” to work with. Safran’s product might be able to be adapted, but angled seats use that space more efficiently.
 
runway23
Posts: 2407
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:53 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
The Studio thing will be short lived. Those forward J seats are always the worst with noise/lights/smells from the galley and lav. This will be no different.


The Studio will survive. It's basically just using space that would be empty because it's the bulkhead and there's no other seat in front that will slant into it. It's pretty similar to Etihad's residence where you're basically making use of dead or limited use space.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4661
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
single fleet with narrow body will kill wide body overtime. It has already happened on the domestic transcon markets. Thin TATL market is simply the next domino to drop. The economics of A321LR on these routes are just so much better than wide bodies they will be competing against.

If you look at their layout, it's actually quite snug. There is not a lot of wasted space anywhere. Basically, a little more than 3 Y seat for each J seat. This is about as economical you can get in having all aisle access J cabin.

As for JetBlue being cheap. Well, they are spending $1 billion on capex in 2021, including $295 million in Q1. That's twice as much capex in 2021 as WN and almost same capex as DL for Q1. They are actually spending money pretty aggressively in a time when other airlines are entering austerity.


Your argument around narrow body isn't new. It is why the 757 had been the mainstay of longer, thin routes within range for decades until there was a suitable replacement. I don't see narrow body jets replacing all wide bodies on TATL routes entirely. Lots of routes are trunk routes that carry a lot of cargo, as well as pax. The 321XLR and LR economics are very good, but the plane is not a full replacement for what flies to major destinations in Europe notably at peak periods, when demand returns. Wide body jets came off transcons because they were needed elsewhere and it was more efficient to use smaller jets and up the frequency, with the exception of a handful of routes, like EWR/JFK-LAX and EWR-SFO where there is a need to move pax in large numbers from hub to hub. You're not going to see all of TATL go narrow body the way US transcons became mostly narrow bodies.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1696
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:56 pm

blooc350 wrote:
This is like some Singapore Airines/Etihad level stuff right here. United and American are in trouble.


I don't think this seat is anything to rave about, especially compared to UA and AA. First you get this seat in a narrow body jet. UA an AA offer mostly widebody aircraft in these markets to the airport of desire ie LHR versus STN or LGW for JetBlue. I would much prefer the larger cabin of a wide body on any international segment versus a narrowbody. Also the seats other than row 1 look cramped and the window at your back is ridiculous. Also the touting of "Vegan Leather" is by someone who has never tried to lay on a vinyl covered lie flat seat. That is going to be really uncomfortable and if they use duvet covers for the seat they are going to be warm. Not impressed.
 
User avatar
TheLunchbox
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:09 pm

mcdu wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
This is like some Singapore Airines/Etihad level stuff right here. United and American are in trouble.


I don't think this seat is anything to rave about, especially compared to UA and AA. First you get this seat in a narrow body jet. UA an AA offer mostly widebody aircraft in these markets to the airport of desire ie LHR versus STN or LGW for JetBlue. I would much prefer the larger cabin of a wide body on any international segment versus a narrowbody. Also the seats other than row 1 look cramped and the window at your back is ridiculous. Also the touting of "Vegan Leather" is by someone who has never tried to lay on a vinyl covered lie flat seat. That is going to be really uncomfortable and if they use duvet covers for the seat they are going to be warm. Not impressed.


Complete failure. Ball it up. Throw it away. No positives whatsoever. :roll:
 
wr911
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:01 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:10 pm

I like this, angled lie flat seat, really like it. Always like the old AC herringbone, hated the BA coffin style seating, almost creepy. Way to mix things up JetBlue.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10432
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:28 pm

Seat1D wrote:
There's only so much you can do to dress up a narrow body so that it appears to have more space. While this will be fine for short hops across the Atlantic and to California this definitely won't do for anything longer. Given the choice between this and a wide body, the wide body will win every day of the week. I wish JetBlue the best of luck but this is Not the answer.
I've flown plenty of long-haul flights and nothing can be worse than flying it in a narrow body even with a flatbed seat.

I can't imagine B6 wanting to fly anything longer than across the Atlantic or down to S.America. About the longest route I can see B6 flying in the forseable future is JFK-GRU but the jury is still out on whether this plane can do it.
And given the choice between "this" at $800 vs someone else's widebody at $2000, "this" will win every day of the week.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:42 pm

Seat1D wrote:
There's only so much you can do to dress up a narrow body so that it appears to have more space. While this will be fine for short hops across the Atlantic and to California this definitely won't do for anything longer. Given the choice between this and a wide body, the wide body will win every day of the week. I wish JetBlue the best of luck but this is Not the answer.
I've flown plenty of long-haul flights and nothing can be worse than flying it in a narrow body even with a flatbed seat.


No one books on fleet type. Everyone books on price and time. All these arguments are the same arguments you heard when JetBlue blew up TCON with Mint. Keep doubting...
 
tphuang
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:44 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
single fleet with narrow body will kill wide body overtime. It has already happened on the domestic transcon markets. Thin TATL market is simply the next domino to drop. The economics of A321LR on these routes are just so much better than wide bodies they will be competing against.

If you look at their layout, it's actually quite snug. There is not a lot of wasted space anywhere. Basically, a little more than 3 Y seat for each J seat. This is about as economical you can get in having all aisle access J cabin.

As for JetBlue being cheap. Well, they are spending $1 billion on capex in 2021, including $295 million in Q1. That's twice as much capex in 2021 as WN and almost same capex as DL for Q1. They are actually spending money pretty aggressively in a time when other airlines are entering austerity.


Your argument around narrow body isn't new. It is why the 757 had been the mainstay of longer, thin routes within range for decades until there was a suitable replacement. I don't see narrow body jets replacing all wide bodies on TATL routes entirely. Lots of routes are trunk routes that carry a lot of cargo, as well as pax. The 321XLR and LR economics are very good, but the plane is not a full replacement for what flies to major destinations in Europe notably at peak periods, when demand returns. Wide body jets came off transcons because they were needed elsewhere and it was more efficient to use smaller jets and up the frequency, with the exception of a handful of routes, like EWR/JFK-LAX and EWR-SFO where there is a need to move pax in large numbers from hub to hub. You're not going to see all of TATL go narrow body the way US transcons became mostly narrow bodies.


transcon moved to smaller jets because the economics of widebodies don't work outside of some trunk routes without a lot of cargo demand. If widebody availability was the issue, why couldn't legacies just purchase more widebodies to cover domestic/international flying?

The economics of 757 vs A321 is not comparable. Aside from the much lower R/T cost on A321s, you also have the luxury of adding new aircraft without adding much fleet complexity. The CASM on A321LR is comparable to 787-8/A332 with much fewer seats to sell. Anytime you have a route where a lower capacity aircraft can have similar CASM to a higher capacity aircraft and can carry similar ratio of premium traffic, the larger aircraft is in a lot of trouble. That's why A380 ended early by A350/77W. That's why A220 will take over the smaller narrowbody market.

mcdu wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
This is like some Singapore Airines/Etihad level stuff right here. United and American are in trouble.


I don't think this seat is anything to rave about, especially compared to UA and AA. First you get this seat in a narrow body jet. UA an AA offer mostly widebody aircraft in these markets to the airport of desire ie LHR versus STN or LGW for JetBlue. I would much prefer the larger cabin of a wide body on any international segment versus a narrowbody. Also the seats other than row 1 look cramped and the window at your back is ridiculous. Also the touting of "Vegan Leather" is by someone who has never tried to lay on a vinyl covered lie flat seat. That is going to be really uncomfortable and if they use duvet covers for the seat they are going to be warm. Not impressed.


They are not flying into STN. Let's stop there.

I've done enough lie flat widebody experience on UA and AA to know those 767s and 777s aren't necessarily going to be more comfortable. The suite + their new soft product will be a very competitive product in this market.

At the end of the day, you don't seem to understand the advantage of this platform is how low cost it will be compared to widebodies.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:45 pm

Seat1D wrote:
Stop being cheap JetBlue, buy some wide bodies and put this in one of those and you will have an absolute Blockbuster of a plane.


Spoken like someone who's never done fleet planning.
 
User avatar
NeBaNi
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:45 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:54 pm

My favorite thing about these seats is the wireless chargers built into them. Saves a lot of trouble from fumbling with cables. I can just plop my phone down and it recharges.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1886
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:19 pm

airbazar wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
There's only so much you can do to dress up a narrow body so that it appears to have more space. While this will be fine for short hops across the Atlantic and to California this definitely won't do for anything longer. Given the choice between this and a wide body, the wide body will win every day of the week. I wish JetBlue the best of luck but this is Not the answer.
I've flown plenty of long-haul flights and nothing can be worse than flying it in a narrow body even with a flatbed seat.

I can't imagine B6 wanting to fly anything longer than across the Atlantic or down to S.America. About the longest route I can see B6 flying in the forseable future is JFK-GRU but the jury is still out on whether this plane can do it.
And given the choice between "this" at $800 vs someone else's widebody at $2000, "this" will win every day of the week.


And they don't need to win a large size of the market. It is a huge market. I imagine this will price above PY and below or match legacy J.
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:22 pm

brodeurprice wrote:
catiii wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Well, it depends on Jet blue penetration on second thought. they are struggling to get hold of heathrow slots. if they do not have enough frequency out of heathrow then i guess BA will be fine. BA will be fine regardless, but i think they will give them a run for their money.


If I were BA and VS, knowing B6 was expanding into London with its lower cost structure, lower fares, and better hard and soft premium product (and we haven't even seen the Core offering yet) I'd be using the CMA in the UK to keep them out of LHR too.


Probably a stupid question, and forgive my ignorance if so, but in the case where B6 fails to get the (or any) slots it desires at LHR, would say, an A221 order and all-Mint service to LCY be a viable alternative? Or perhaps, is it something that is possible in the future irregardless of LHR service? I suppose a related question would be the pros/cons of LCY service as opposed to Gatwick, and vice-versa.


In my opinion LCY service isn’t viable. Big corporate focus and for the London end of the route I don’t think JetBlue is as attractive for that segment. Corporate contracts and personal frequent flyer preference tremendously favour BA and to a lesser extent Virgin. JetBlue cannot compete with that. If you’re UK based Avios are simply far more useful to save up. And for the corporate the overall discount BA and partners provide in return for share will mean JetBlue really for many will just be “spill”.

With attractive low fares they can definitely shoot for premium leisure and SME traffic but I doubt LCY is worth it over LGW or LHR in that case as you reduce the catchment area as LCY isn’t that useful if you’re not in or close to central London.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4661
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
single fleet with narrow body will kill wide body overtime. It has already happened on the domestic transcon markets. Thin TATL market is simply the next domino to drop. The economics of A321LR on these routes are just so much better than wide bodies they will be competing against.

If you look at their layout, it's actually quite snug. There is not a lot of wasted space anywhere. Basically, a little more than 3 Y seat for each J seat. This is about as economical you can get in having all aisle access J cabin.

As for JetBlue being cheap. Well, they are spending $1 billion on capex in 2021, including $295 million in Q1. That's twice as much capex in 2021 as WN and almost same capex as DL for Q1. They are actually spending money pretty aggressively in a time when other airlines are entering austerity.


Your argument around narrow body isn't new. It is why the 757 had been the mainstay of longer, thin routes within range for decades until there was a suitable replacement. I don't see narrow body jets replacing all wide bodies on TATL routes entirely. Lots of routes are trunk routes that carry a lot of cargo, as well as pax. The 321XLR and LR economics are very good, but the plane is not a full replacement for what flies to major destinations in Europe notably at peak periods, when demand returns. Wide body jets came off transcons because they were needed elsewhere and it was more efficient to use smaller jets and up the frequency, with the exception of a handful of routes, like EWR/JFK-LAX and EWR-SFO where there is a need to move pax in large numbers from hub to hub. You're not going to see all of TATL go narrow body the way US transcons became mostly narrow bodies.


transcon moved to smaller jets because the economics of widebodies don't work outside of some trunk routes without a lot of cargo demand. If widebody availability was the issue, why couldn't legacies just purchase more widebodies to cover domestic/international flying?

The economics of 757 vs A321 is not comparable. Aside from the much lower R/T cost on A321s, you also have the luxury of adding new aircraft without adding much fleet complexity. The CASM on A321LR is comparable to 787-8/A332 with much fewer seats to sell. Anytime you have a route where a lower capacity aircraft can have similar CASM to a higher capacity aircraft and can carry similar ratio of premium traffic, the larger aircraft is in a lot of trouble. That's why A380 ended early by A350/77W. That's why A220 will take over the smaller narrowbody market.

mcdu wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
This is like some Singapore Airines/Etihad level stuff right here. United and American are in trouble.


I don't think this seat is anything to rave about, especially compared to UA and AA. First you get this seat in a narrow body jet. UA an AA offer mostly widebody aircraft in these markets to the airport of desire ie LHR versus STN or LGW for JetBlue. I would much prefer the larger cabin of a wide body on any international segment versus a narrowbody. Also the seats other than row 1 look cramped and the window at your back is ridiculous. Also the touting of "Vegan Leather" is by someone who has never tried to lay on a vinyl covered lie flat seat. That is going to be really uncomfortable and if they use duvet covers for the seat they are going to be warm. Not impressed.


They are not flying into STN. Let's stop there.

I've done enough lie flat widebody experience on UA and AA to know those 767s and 777s aren't necessarily going to be more comfortable. The suite + their new soft product will be a very competitive product in this market.

At the end of the day, you don't seem to understand the advantage of this platform is how low cost it will be compared to widebodies.


No one was comparing the economics of the 757 vs the A321 or suggesting it. All that was said was that when the 757 was the aircraft flying such routes, there really was nothing else capable. That has changed.
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:50 pm

Only one bathroom up front? Ouch. Again, the short comings of a narrow body.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:55 pm

Seat1D wrote:
Stop being cheap JetBlue, buy some wide bodies and put this in one of those and you will have an absolute Blockbuster of a plane.


Why? From these seats you won't notice the size of the aircraft. A widebody will just mean having one or two middles seats in each row, way worse than this.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:55 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Your argument around narrow body isn't new. It is why the 757 had been the mainstay of longer, thin routes within range for decades until there was a suitable replacement. I don't see narrow body jets replacing all wide bodies on TATL routes entirely. Lots of routes are trunk routes that carry a lot of cargo, as well as pax. The 321XLR and LR economics are very good, but the plane is not a full replacement for what flies to major destinations in Europe notably at peak periods, when demand returns. Wide body jets came off transcons because they were needed elsewhere and it was more efficient to use smaller jets and up the frequency, with the exception of a handful of routes, like EWR/JFK-LAX and EWR-SFO where there is a need to move pax in large numbers from hub to hub. You're not going to see all of TATL go narrow body the way US transcons became mostly narrow bodies.


transcon moved to smaller jets because the economics of widebodies don't work outside of some trunk routes without a lot of cargo demand. If widebody availability was the issue, why couldn't legacies just purchase more widebodies to cover domestic/international flying?

The economics of 757 vs A321 is not comparable. Aside from the much lower R/T cost on A321s, you also have the luxury of adding new aircraft without adding much fleet complexity. The CASM on A321LR is comparable to 787-8/A332 with much fewer seats to sell. Anytime you have a route where a lower capacity aircraft can have similar CASM to a higher capacity aircraft and can carry similar ratio of premium traffic, the larger aircraft is in a lot of trouble. That's why A380 ended early by A350/77W. That's why A220 will take over the smaller narrowbody market.

mcdu wrote:

I don't think this seat is anything to rave about, especially compared to UA and AA. First you get this seat in a narrow body jet. UA an AA offer mostly widebody aircraft in these markets to the airport of desire ie LHR versus STN or LGW for JetBlue. I would much prefer the larger cabin of a wide body on any international segment versus a narrowbody. Also the seats other than row 1 look cramped and the window at your back is ridiculous. Also the touting of "Vegan Leather" is by someone who has never tried to lay on a vinyl covered lie flat seat. That is going to be really uncomfortable and if they use duvet covers for the seat they are going to be warm. Not impressed.


They are not flying into STN. Let's stop there.

I've done enough lie flat widebody experience on UA and AA to know those 767s and 777s aren't necessarily going to be more comfortable. The suite + their new soft product will be a very competitive product in this market.

At the end of the day, you don't seem to understand the advantage of this platform is how low cost it will be compared to widebodies.


No one was comparing the economics of the 757 vs the A321 or suggesting it. All that was said was that when the 757 was the aircraft flying such routes, there really was nothing else capable. That has changed.


sorry, I think I came across as really aggressive there. It's my view that A321XLR will replace a lot of routes that saw 757s and 767s. And it will allow LCCs to compete with legacies on TATL routes. It's a position I've held for a long time as I last argued for it when UA bought 50 XLRs.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:02 pm

runway23 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
The Studio thing will be short lived. Those forward J seats are always the worst with noise/lights/smells from the galley and lav. This will be no different.


The Studio will survive. It's basically just using space that would be empty because it's the bulkhead and there's no other seat in front that will slant into it. It's pretty similar to Etihad's residence where you're basically making use of dead or limited use space.



I get that. People aren't going to pay more for it. The galley will be bothersome. Go read reviews on seat guru for the front row of any business class cabin.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1876
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:16 pm

jayunited wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
nc3rd wrote:
There are FAA mandates as to what constitutes a suitable rest seat (and coach and extra leg room dont suffice), and from what Im seeing here, one of these seats will be blocked off as a designated rest seat for the relief pilot.


Sorry, my mind goes right to Flight Attendants as that's my job. Yes, Pilots could well require some other kind of rest accommodations - I don't know. I don't believe Flight Attendants do. They simply require additional crew if duty time goes above 14 hours.



So JetBlue's FA's won't have 3 economy seats blocked off for use as crew rest?


I have no idea. I just know it's not required and they don't have a contract yet that would make it contractual. Doesn't mean the company won't provide rest accommodations - they just don't have to.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4661
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:

transcon moved to smaller jets because the economics of widebodies don't work outside of some trunk routes without a lot of cargo demand. If widebody availability was the issue, why couldn't legacies just purchase more widebodies to cover domestic/international flying?

The economics of 757 vs A321 is not comparable. Aside from the much lower R/T cost on A321s, you also have the luxury of adding new aircraft without adding much fleet complexity. The CASM on A321LR is comparable to 787-8/A332 with much fewer seats to sell. Anytime you have a route where a lower capacity aircraft can have similar CASM to a higher capacity aircraft and can carry similar ratio of premium traffic, the larger aircraft is in a lot of trouble. That's why A380 ended early by A350/77W. That's why A220 will take over the smaller narrowbody market.



They are not flying into STN. Let's stop there.

I've done enough lie flat widebody experience on UA and AA to know those 767s and 777s aren't necessarily going to be more comfortable. The suite + their new soft product will be a very competitive product in this market.

At the end of the day, you don't seem to understand the advantage of this platform is how low cost it will be compared to widebodies.


No one was comparing the economics of the 757 vs the A321 or suggesting it. All that was said was that when the 757 was the aircraft flying such routes, there really was nothing else capable. That has changed.


sorry, I think I came across as really aggressive there. It's my view that A321XLR will replace a lot of routes that saw 757s and 767s. And it will allow LCCs to compete with legacies on TATL routes. It's a position I've held for a long time as I last argued for it when UA bought 50 XLRs.


It's fine. The A321XLR will also end up on routes to Latin America where the 787 is too much plane and where frequency is important and open up a lot of very thin routes that were not profitable with a 767. I can see it being operated to ASU, MVD, and potentially even COR if the economic conditions are amenable to it. I don't see the 321XLR replacing wide bodies in some markets to Europe where the 76s remain common, like ZRH, GVA. For UA specifically, they've hinted at using the 321XLR to open up more routes (obviously, this was all pre-pandemic) but places like Oporto, Malaga, Nice, Pisa, Basel, a return to Hamburg, Cologne/Bonn, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Bergen, Oslo, Newcastle, etc...are all candidates, but only when traffic returns and that is likely several years away.
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:34 pm

I thought about this some more and this is definitely not the plain you want if you are traveling as a couple. It is very unfriendly in that regard. If you're traveling by yourself then this is okay but still it's a narrow body and no matter what you do to the design it will still have that claustrophobic feel to it.

Transcon, this is a winner but again., one bathroom, not very flier friendly.
 
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 116
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 pm

Seat1D wrote:
I thought about this some more and this is definitely not the plain you want if you are traveling as a couple. It is very unfriendly in that regard. If you're traveling by yourself then this is okay but still it's a narrow body and no matter what you do to the design it will still have that claustrophobic feel to it.

Transcon, this is a winner but again., one bathroom, not very flier friendly.


Got seats next to each other back in Core if you're willing to schlep it with the normies ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:52 pm

Seat1D wrote:
I thought about this some more and this is definitely not the plain you want if you are traveling as a couple. It is very unfriendly in that regard. If you're traveling by yourself then this is okay but still it's a narrow body and no matter what you do to the design it will still have that claustrophobic feel to it.

Transcon, this is a winner but again., one bathroom, not very flier friendly.

Would you feel claustrophobic in a gulfstream? I’ve felt claustrophobic in the back of a triple 7 and the back of a 747 before. I’ve never felt claustrophobic while riding in mint, in either the suite or the 2x2 seats, although the latter isn’t ideal for getting up if you’re in the window and your seat mate is sleeping. But that’s not an issue with 2.0. And there’s a lav just behind mint, and one up front. Never once been an issue for me. For most people, this product will be just fine for a tatl flight. I’m sure the 767/787/330s will have plenty of room for those of you who must have a widebody though.

As for the not couple friendly part, I have thought it’d be cool if they had the mint 2.0 cabin designed with the last row arranged like the 2x2 seats in the current mint cabin to address this. That said, if I’m with my wife in mint, I’d still rather have my own suite than be next to someone, including her. I can text her if I really want to talk to her, and talk to her before/after the flight. Direct aisle access for everyone is better.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3593
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
No one was comparing the economics of the 757 vs the A321 or suggesting it. All that was said was that when the 757 was the aircraft flying such routes, there really was nothing else capable. That has changed.


sorry, I think I came across as really aggressive there. It's my view that A321XLR will replace a lot of routes that saw 757s and 767s. And it will allow LCCs to compete with legacies on TATL routes. It's a position I've held for a long time as I last argued for it when UA bought 50 XLRs.[/quote]


I do agree with you on this point, I think Airbus has a killer product in the A321XLR it will be up to each individual airline to figure out how to make work for their individual needs.

I do have a question has JetBlue revealed the total seating capacity?
 
ASguy2012
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:12 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:22 pm

Seat1D wrote:
Only one bathroom up front? Ouch. Again, the short comings of a narrow body.


Appears to be another lav in front of 1A
 
foxalphazulu
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:07 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:10 am

I think B6 will do just fine with this product. Looking forward, B6 will do fine to offer a product that meets the need of the business traveller / above average spender looking for comfort.

Is BA in trouble? No
Is this is the end of AA/ other legacy carriers? Also No.

However, an important distinction is to be made that the A321 is relatively more efficient in terms of porting over passengers, and for B6 in particular shares fleet commonality. I think B6 will do very well with this.

While most people will not book based on NB/WB distinction (yes, being in a wide body feels nice, but once you're in a window seat on a 3-4-3, this disappears real quick and the actual seat itself does not change). I guarantee people (for the most part) are not booking based on equipment type.

What they will book on are price, which B6 might be able to provide. They will look at connections, which B6 is strong at (east coast wise at least). And people remember the soft product, which as far as airlines in USA go today, B6 has got it down to a science.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:12 am

RvA wrote:
brodeurprice wrote:
catiii wrote:

If I were BA and VS, knowing B6 was expanding into London with its lower cost structure, lower fares, and better hard and soft premium product (and we haven't even seen the Core offering yet) I'd be using the CMA in the UK to keep them out of LHR too.


Probably a stupid question, and forgive my ignorance if so, but in the case where B6 fails to get the (or any) slots it desires at LHR, would say, an A221 order and all-Mint service to LCY be a viable alternative? Or perhaps, is it something that is possible in the future irregardless of LHR service? I suppose a related question would be the pros/cons of LCY service as opposed to Gatwick, and vice-versa.


In my opinion LCY service isn’t viable. Big corporate focus and for the London end of the route I don’t think JetBlue is as attractive for that segment. Corporate contracts and personal frequent flyer preference tremendously favour BA and to a lesser extent Virgin. JetBlue cannot compete with that.


JetBlue cannot compete with what, British or Virgin TATL into LCY? Did I miss something? Are either carrier flying it?
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:14 am

Seat1D wrote:
I thought about this some more and this is definitely not the plain you want if you are traveling as a couple. It is very unfriendly in that regard. If you're traveling by yourself then this is okay but still it's a narrow body and no matter what you do to the design it will still have that claustrophobic feel to it.

Transcon, this is a winner but again., one bathroom, not very flier friendly.


Funny, because TCON westbound in the winter often have longer blocks than TATL eastbound to LON in the winter. One’s ok, but one isn’t? Interesting.
 
catiii
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:17 am

Seat1D wrote:
Only one bathroom up front? Ouch. Again, the short comings of a narrow body.


Why? It’s a ratio. You need more bathrooms on a wide body because there are, wait for it, more people. What an irrational argument.

“Only six doors on the 321? The shortcomings of a narrow body.”

Look it’s clear you have some issue with JetBlue, or narrow bodies, or both, or whatever. If you were making cogent arguments rooted in fact and logic than it might be interesting.

Nothing is stopping you from going to fly someone else. Enjoy being one of 50.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:05 am

jfk777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
JB is giving their best for the UK, this will be a niche operation to Gatwick with one or two daily A321LR's from JFK and Boston each.

None of which you know for fact.

What is it the is NOT factual ?

You should read more carefully.
What I wrote is that "you don't KNOW any of that, for fact".... which is, well, a fact. Examples as follows:

      JB is not going to be a force since their planes are half the size of al the other airlines in the market, that is a niche.

      How would you know that at this time?
      The answer is of course, you don't: you're just (poorly) assuming that a narrowbody vs. a widebody would not "be a force" (whatever that even means). I'm not sure what manner of logic would conclude that adding dozens of top-level premium seats to any longhaul/mediumhaul market, wouldn't have a substantial effect thereupon.

      They aren't going to LHR

      How would you know that at this time?
      The answer is of course, you don't: in fact, they've stated they expect a multiple-gateway approach to LON, and have mentioned interest in flying to any combination of them from various US gateways.

      they are not going to have 3,4,5,6 or more frequencies.

      And, yet again, how would you know that at this time? You don't.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:14 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Would you feel claustrophobic in a gulfstream?

No, because you would know you were flying at mach .9 instead of crawling along at .78
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:15 am

DenverTed wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Would you feel claustrophobic in a gulfstream?

No, because you would know you were flying at mach .9 instead of crawling along at .78

You're joking, right?
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:20 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
As for the not couple friendly part, I have thought it’d be cool if they had the mint 2.0 cabin designed with the last row arranged like the 2x2 seats in the current mint cabin to address this.

That seems like a good idea. Also, on the last row of diag seats, similar to studio where there is an extra triangle to the forward window side, there should be a triangle to the rear and aisle side. I wonder what this space is used for?
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:21 am

LAX772LR wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Would you feel claustrophobic in a gulfstream?

No, because you would know you were flying at mach .9 instead of crawling along at .78

You're joking, right?

Yes.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6634
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:37 am

DenverTed wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
As for the not couple friendly part, I have thought it’d be cool if they had the mint 2.0 cabin designed with the last row arranged like the 2x2 seats in the current mint cabin to address this.

That seems like a good idea. Also, on the last row of diag seats, similar to studio where there is an extra triangle to the forward window side, there should be a triangle to the rear and aisle side. I wonder what this space is used for?


I have to imagine they set it up this way because this is the most space efficient option possible. To heck with 2x2 I guess.

Although it is a good question how they use that additional triangle space. I guess we will find out when the full aircraft gets revealed. I wonder if they will have the standard Y+/Y set up or try to have a W cabin (I wouldn't know how to do that)
 
richierich
Moderator
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:05 am

Seat1D wrote:
Stop being cheap JetBlue, buy some wide bodies and put this in one of those and you will have an absolute Blockbuster of a plane.


Oh yeah, because you think they can just go out and buy widebodies during a pandemic?
B6 committed to the A321LR for TATL, and maybe in a post-COVID world these will be the dominant aircraft in use across the Atlantic, at least from northern and western Europe to New York/Boston/Washington. I think the TATL market will come back slowly, not in a giant rush of pent up demand, and especially for business class.The Mint 2.0 product does look pretty nice but I'm not sure about the angled seats. Not my favorite configuration but then again I'm not like most fliers. What will set B6 apart here will be the service. Let's hope they make it as good, if not better, than their current Mint service (which is excellent!)...any sort of cheapening could have consequences.
 
RvA
Posts: 519
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:33 am

catiii wrote:
RvA wrote:
brodeurprice wrote:

Probably a stupid question, and forgive my ignorance if so, but in the case where B6 fails to get the (or any) slots it desires at LHR, would say, an A221 order and all-Mint service to LCY be a viable alternative? Or perhaps, is it something that is possible in the future irregardless of LHR service? I suppose a related question would be the pros/cons of LCY service as opposed to Gatwick, and vice-versa.


In my opinion LCY service isn’t viable. Big corporate focus and for the London end of the route I don’t think JetBlue is as attractive for that segment. Corporate contracts and personal frequent flyer preference tremendously favour BA and to a lesser extent Virgin. JetBlue cannot compete with that.


JetBlue cannot compete with what, British or Virgin TATL into LCY? Did I miss something? Are either carrier flying it?


No, they can fly to LCY (B6) all they want but corporates in particular will still go to LHR to use BA or VS. Many even did despite BAs own LCY service even, let alone when the corporate contract and personal frequent flyer loyalty doesn’t even cover it.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 720
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Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:00 am

Surprisingly the IFE system still use physical button
Image
Credit: thepointsguy (link on #1 post)
 
11C
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:26 am

Seat1D wrote:
Only one bathroom up front? Ouch. Again, the short comings of a narrow body.


I think we get it. Wide bodies are the best. Narrow bodies suck.
 
trueblew
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:41 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Surprisingly the IFE system still use physical button
Image
Credit: thepointsguy (link on #1 post)


The screen is almost certainly a touch screen (as the current generation Thales units on JB are), but the screen is probably too far to reach easily especially when reclined. There is also the option to pair a smartphone via wifi to act as a remote.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3083
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:48 pm

It’s a nice seat, but shares the issue with the reverse herringbones that have gone out of fashion. The impression of less privacy when facing into the aisle, tall walls make “Coffin-Like” spaces, which the door is likely to make worse and facing away from the windows and the IFE won’t be “gate-to-gate”. None of these singularly make it a bad seat, but combined they might. So the reviews will be interesting.
The positive is that it does appear to be nicely finished and have an attractive palette. It’s a new direction for TATL and very space efficient which I’m really excited about.
Last edited by BrianDromey on Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
trueblew
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:50 pm

Seat1D wrote:
I thought about this some more and this is definitely not the plain you want if you are traveling as a couple. It is very unfriendly in that regard. If you're traveling by yourself then this is okay but still it's a narrow body and no matter what you do to the design it will still have that claustrophobic feel to it.

Transcon, this is a winner but again., one bathroom, not very flier friendly.


Something tells me you don't fly in a lie-flat biz/first cabin regularly. None of your arguments make practical sense from the perspective of one who does.

As already mentioned upthread,
  • On business-heavy routes people don't travel as couples and prefer the privacy that this layout provides
  • Even couples will be just fine sleeping with a wall between them. If they have attachment/codependency issues they can book the Studio and be together for the entire cruising section of flight. The only thing you'll miss out on is sharing the pre-departure prosecco toast
  • Due to the design of these suites, whether you are in a narrowbody or a widebody you have the same general feeling of space, so, no, it won't feel more claustrophobic than a widebody
  • Many transcon segments can be indeed longer than NYC-LON, and you say it would be a winner for transcon.

Moving on...
 
DenverTed
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: New JetBlue Mint Studio suite

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:33 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
As for the not couple friendly part, I have thought it’d be cool if they had the mint 2.0 cabin designed with the last row arranged like the 2x2 seats in the current mint cabin to address this.

Geometrically this seems like a great idea. A pair of seats, with an angled sear from the window in front of them leaves an exit corridor for the window seat in the pair.

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