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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:54 pm

Opus99 wrote:
JogiXFW wrote:
A Rumor is that Condor will take the 242t variant that are already build for XAX and order new build ones.
The 251t prototype will be converted in to a CEBU config

This is true. Boeing overpriced the 787-9 on this deal IMO. From what I saw


Could they fit 460 pax in a 789?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:27 pm

brindabella wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
morrisond wrote:

I meant - stop investing in the 330 and let it die a natural death after the orders are fulfilled.


Would be a dream for Boeing.


When the A330 came and heavily outsold the 767, the 767 was not retired by Boeing trough years of very low production rates, lower than we expect now for the A330.
The A330 production lines are already amortized. The development of the new models were not expensive and without expensive mistakes. No reason to despair because of some years with low production rates.

In the 11 years since the 787 started deliveries, 997 787 were delivered and 849 A330, the bigger part of the whole production of that program. Most of the time the A330 having a small backlog compared to the 787.
There are 68 operators of 787 with 997 frames and 124 operators with 1434 A330 in operation today. I do not expect the A330neo to sell as well as the 787, but I expect it to take some of the replacement market. Perhaps similar as the 737max sells compared to the A320neo, about one to two.


Thanks for that. It certainly clarifies many issues.


Would be a dream for Boeing.

Of course. For AB, having nothing at all between the A321neo and the A359 is NOT where you would want to be.
But what to do?
It is not clear that the market is ever going to buy the A330neo family from here on.
Maybe existing A330ceo operators?
Could be.
However the A330ceo was produced at a very high rate pre-COVID.
And now NOBODY is buying new WBs.
Enough said.

It made great strategic sense to bring the A330ceo family up to compete with the 787 family and offer a seamless WB range.
I supported the idea in that the upside for AB to have the A330neo compete with the 787 could work very well for AB IF ...
However I was always concerned that "upscaling" the A330 into the 787 space ultimately was not wise.
I think that is probably what has happened.

What to do?
Well, if the A330neo is not going to sell at a sufficient rate (that is, it continues to make losses), then the conundrum just gets worse.

:scratchchin: :scratchchin:

cheers


Why do you assume that the A330 is making losses? The A330 production lines have been paid long ago by the A330ceo, so fixed costs should be low. The development from the A330ceo to the neo was a rather low priced operation with no hitch. There are no deferred cost born by the program. IMO Airbus can make money on a low rate production of the A330, whereas I doubt that Boeing can make money of a low rate production off the 787.

I think people make the mistake looking at the A330neo not as part of a family, with new models. If only a part of the 1400 A330 in operation will be replaced by the A330neo it will be a success.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:02 pm

Generally speaking, I agree.

The question is how long will the effects of Covid be felt on International travel? There is no demand. There were too many widebodies to begin with, even before Covid. Imho, the key for Airbus will be being able to maintain the aircraft in production until the market flips, kind of like B is doing with the 7X. So what are the key metrics that A has to hit to keep the program going? I respectfully submit that only A knows, and even among the top corporate executives there is probably disagreement.
 
MrAMM
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:34 pm

JogiXFW wrote:
A Rumor is that Condor will take the 242t variant that are already build for XAX and order new build ones.
The 251t prototype will be converted in to a CEBU config


Where do you have this rumor from? Nothing on the whole internet can be found to your rumor of Condor getting A330neo.
 
MoonC
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:05 pm

MrAMM wrote:
JogiXFW wrote:
A Rumor is that Condor will take the 242t variant that are already build for XAX and order new build ones.
The 251t prototype will be converted in to a CEBU config


Where do you have this rumor from? Nothing on the whole internet can be found to your rumor of Condor getting A330neo.


Nothing could be found about Air Belgium previously either but it turns out they are indeed going to take some.

ImageAir Belgium A330-941N msn 1844 F-WWCJ / OO-ABF by dn280tls, sur Flickr
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:46 pm

Jetport wrote:
The 787 is superior to the A330 in every way.

I always choose the A330 over the 787. I prefer 2-4-2 seating in economy over 3-3-3. And I don't want to take the risk of the dimmable windows being locked by cabin crew.
 
Speedy752
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:58 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
brindabella wrote:
What to do?
Well, if the A330neo is not going to sell at a sufficient rate (that is, it continues to make losses), then the conundrum just gets worse.


That would be bad for the 787 and the A330neo though, considering that Airbus captured 40% of the market since Airlines did have a choice. Even discarding the AirAsiaX order the marketshare is probably worthwhile considering it cost nothing to develop, relatively speaking, tooling and trained staff is already there up and down the supply chain and when Airbus needs room to expand again there is all the space occupied by the A380 production to be converted first.

best regards
Thomas


If this pandemic has taught us anything it’s that “market share” is not a valid indicator until the planes actually get delivered.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:03 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Generally speaking, I agree.

The question is how long will the effects of Covid be felt on International travel? There is no demand. There were too many widebodies to begin with, even before Covid. Imho, the key for Airbus will be being able to maintain the aircraft in production until the market flips, kind of like B is doing with the 7X. So what are the key metrics that A has to hit to keep the program going? I respectfully submit that only A knows, and even among the top corporate executives there is probably disagreement.


IMO 2 a month, would keep the A330 taking along nicely and I talk about all versions. There are also a few A330MRTT still to be delivered.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:08 pm

One issue that isn't talked about much, the A330neo comes only with RR's, the 787 comes with either GEnX or RR, where the GEnX is currently winning 2/3 or more of the orders, most due to the Trent 1000 issues which hopefully are resolved.

The A330ceo had 3 engine choices which allowed for better fleet planning. The current A330ceo airlines that have GE or Pratt may not want to switch to RR.

Sale prospects of the A330neo look constrained for the next 5-6 years, any airline looking to order, in particular startups could easily save half of the cost of a new A338 by taking up a A333 on a low cost lease. They probably need to finance and the leasing firms so want to move the metal they already own.
 
JogiXFW
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

MrAMM wrote:
JogiXFW wrote:
A Rumor is that Condor will take the 242t variant that are already build for XAX and order new build ones.
The 251t prototype will be converted in to a CEBU config


Where do you have this rumor from? Nothing on the whole internet can be found to your rumor of Condor getting A330neo.

It don´t have to be always in the internet ;) But you´ll remember my post when it become public ;)
 
A320B737NGCapt
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:44 pm

JogiXFW wrote:
MrAMM wrote:
JogiXFW wrote:
A Rumor is that Condor will take the 242t variant that are already build for XAX and order new build ones.
The 251t prototype will be converted in to a CEBU config


Where do you have this rumor from? Nothing on the whole internet can be found to your rumor of Condor getting A330neo.

It don´t have to be always in the internet ;) But you´ll remember my post when it become public ;)


The A330 has been the front runner for a long time, they were collecting and analysing everything when I was flying the A332 for them through MT. i had been told several times a A330neo was the preferred replacement for Thomas Cook’s group of airlines. The 787 rumour and mock-up digital liveries where all fan made.

As for Air Belgium I did say the A340 would be being replaced by the A339 in the A332F thread that was going on at the start of the year.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:13 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
One issue that isn't talked about much, the A330neo comes only with RR's, the 787 comes with either GEnX or RR, where the GEnX is currently winning 2/3 or more of the orders, most due to the Trent 1000 issues which hopefully are resolved.

The A330ceo had 3 engine choices which allowed for better fleet planning. The current A330ceo airlines that have GE or Pratt may not want to switch to RR.

Sale prospects of the A330neo look constrained for the next 5-6 years, any airline looking to order, in particular startups could easily save half of the cost of a new A338 by taking up a A333 on a low cost lease. They probably need to finance and the leasing firms so want to move the metal they already own.


The main engine sold on the A330 in the last 15 years was the Trent700. So most of the owners of youngish A330ceo are using the RR engines.
 
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flee
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:36 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
The A330ceo had 3 engine choices which allowed for better fleet planning. The current A330ceo airlines that have GE or Pratt may not want to switch to RR

This is not necessarily so - DL's fleet of A332/333s have both PW and GE engines. And their A339s are RR.

In recent years, airlines seem to have accepted the practice of exclusive engine arrangements that Airbus and Boeing have. A good example is Air France - they usually order GE engines for their aircraft but have accepted the RR engined A350. Another is BA with GE on their B77Ws.

Although the widebody market has kind of disappeared post Covid-19, the A330 Neo is in a good financial position because development costs were low and fully amortised and the overheads are low. It also has a military aspect to it - the MRTT. Many people have written off the D7 order but we will know more clearly when their debt restructuring and recapitalisation exercise is completed. AFAIK, D7 still intends to take the aircraft in future, if it survives!
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:27 am

flee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The A330ceo had 3 engine choices which allowed for better fleet planning. The current A330ceo airlines that have GE or Pratt may not want to switch to RR

This is not necessarily so - DL's fleet of A332/333s have both PW and GE engines. And their A339s are RR.

In recent years, airlines seem to have accepted the practice of exclusive engine arrangements that Airbus and Boeing have. A good example is Air France - they usually order GE engines for their aircraft but have accepted the RR engined A350. Another is BA with GE on their B77Ws.

Although the widebody market has kind of disappeared post Covid-19, the A330 Neo is in a good financial position because development costs were low and fully amortised and the overheads are low. It also has a military aspect to it - the MRTT. Many people have written off the D7 order but we will know more clearly when their debt restructuring and recapitalisation exercise is completed. AFAIK, D7 still intends to take the aircraft in future, if it survives!


I don't disagree with the potential for success of the A330neo but I do think engine commonality is still a major sticking point. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but AF got onboard partially because they got the rights to overhaul the engines in house, I don't think this will be granted to everyone.

KE for example is notorious for doing all their MRO in house and unless we see them strike a similar deal I doubt we'll see A350s or A330neos in skyblue liveries anytime soon.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:23 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
flee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
The A330ceo had 3 engine choices which allowed for better fleet planning. The current A330ceo airlines that have GE or Pratt may not want to switch to RR

This is not necessarily so - DL's fleet of A332/333s have both PW and GE engines. And their A339s are RR.

In recent years, airlines seem to have accepted the practice of exclusive engine arrangements that Airbus and Boeing have. A good example is Air France - they usually order GE engines for their aircraft but have accepted the RR engined A350. Another is BA with GE on their B77Ws.

Although the widebody market has kind of disappeared post Covid-19, the A330 Neo is in a good financial position because development costs were low and fully amortised and the overheads are low. It also has a military aspect to it - the MRTT. Many people have written off the D7 order but we will know more clearly when their debt restructuring and recapitalisation exercise is completed. AFAIK, D7 still intends to take the aircraft in future, if it survives!


I don't disagree with the potential for success of the A330neo but I do think engine commonality is still a major sticking point. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but AF got onboard partially because they got the rights to overhaul the engines in house, I don't think this will be granted to everyone.

KE for example is notorious for doing all their MRO in house and unless we see them strike a similar deal I doubt we'll see A350s or A330neos in skyblue liveries anytime soon.


RR's are very good engines, but not having an engine choice on the 77W, 779, or even the 737, as well as all of Airbus's current widebodies does affect closing a sale. It is interesting that only the A320 and the B787 have engine choices these days.

Landing orders recently has been hard for all aircraft, but the A330 drought is worse than others.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:15 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
flee wrote:
This is not necessarily so - DL's fleet of A332/333s have both PW and GE engines. And their A339s are RR.

In recent years, airlines seem to have accepted the practice of exclusive engine arrangements that Airbus and Boeing have. A good example is Air France - they usually order GE engines for their aircraft but have accepted the RR engined A350. Another is BA with GE on their B77Ws.

Although the widebody market has kind of disappeared post Covid-19, the A330 Neo is in a good financial position because development costs were low and fully amortised and the overheads are low. It also has a military aspect to it - the MRTT. Many people have written off the D7 order but we will know more clearly when their debt restructuring and recapitalisation exercise is completed. AFAIK, D7 still intends to take the aircraft in future, if it survives!


I don't disagree with the potential for success of the A330neo but I do think engine commonality is still a major sticking point. I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but AF got onboard partially because they got the rights to overhaul the engines in house, I don't think this will be granted to everyone.

KE for example is notorious for doing all their MRO in house and unless we see them strike a similar deal I doubt we'll see A350s or A330neos in skyblue liveries anytime soon.


RR's are very good engines, but not having an engine choice on the 77W, 779, or even the 737, as well as all of Airbus's current widebodies does affect closing a sale. It is interesting that only the A320 and the B787 have engine choices these days.

Landing orders recently has been hard for all aircraft, but the A330 drought is worse than others.


I think it would all boil down if the engine OEMs are willing to spend top dollars to do R&D and production on updated variant or a new engine family for A330neo or any other aircraft. With billions being spent, OEMs have either demand for exclusivity or prefer not to contribute any engines and focus their resources on other market which they have better ROI/ better chance of earning some $$. The days when all three engine OEMs (RR, PW and GE) supplying engines for all/ most of widebody and narrowbody are over.

GE did expressed interest in offering another GEnx for A330neo back in early 2020 to offset B787 production slowdown, and GECAS also placed an order for 12 A339neo in 2019. It marked the first time GE buying a non-GE powered aircraft from Airbus. It would however create conflict for GE as GE is a supplier for 787 wtih RR. To date, nothing came out of the expression of interest. They were actually somehow reluctant to do it of course, since they got badly burnt by low number of engine sales for GE-powered A330ceo.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1XI0UI
https://www.sharecast.com/news/internat ... 26170.html
https://www.industryweek.com/leadership ... archrivals

GE gets B77W, B77X, B737MAX, B737NG, C919 and COMAC ARJ-21 exclusivity. RR gets A330neo and A350 (at least until 2030) and PW gets.....nothing?
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:43 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
GE gets B77W, B77X, B737MAX, B737NG, C919 and COMAC ARJ-21 exclusivity. RR gets A330neo and A350 (at least until 2030) and PW gets.....nothing?


To be fair you do not need exclusivity when you are on the A320, you sell more than enough to make money. Plus PW has a defacto exclusivity on the A220 and E2 series because no other OEM has a suitable engine even though there is no contractual exclusivity afaik.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:56 am

FluidFlow wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
GE gets B77W, B77X, B737MAX, B737NG, C919 and COMAC ARJ-21 exclusivity. RR gets A330neo and A350 (at least until 2030) and PW gets.....nothing?


To be fair you do not need exclusivity when you are on the A320, you sell more than enough to make money. Plus PW has a defacto exclusivity on the A220 and E2 series because no other OEM has a suitable engine even though there is no contractual exclusivity afaik.

Well true to what you have said, but you need to sell in (huge) volume to make money, easier to achieve for narrobody, tad bit difficult in widebody, especially post-COVID-19 for next few years.

Oh yes, PW exclusivity for A220 and E2, totally forgotten about them. Both are not here in Asia. Hope someone can bring them here. Thanks for the reminder.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:06 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
GE gets B77W, B77X, B737MAX, B737NG, C919 and COMAC ARJ-21 exclusivity. RR gets A330neo and A350 (at least until 2030) and PW gets.....nothing?


To be fair you do not need exclusivity when you are on the A320, you sell more than enough to make money. Plus PW has a defacto exclusivity on the A220 and E2 series because no other OEM has a suitable engine even though there is no contractual exclusivity afaik.

Well true to what you have said, but you need to sell in (huge) volume to make money, easier to achieve for narrobody, tad bit difficult in widebody, especially post-COVID-19 for next few years.

Oh yes, PW exclusivity for A220 and E2, totally forgotten about them. Both are not here in Asia. Hope someone can bring them here. Thanks for the reminder.


I thought one of the Korean Airlines ordered A220s but I could be wrong.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:22 am

FluidFlow wrote:

I thought one of the Korean Airlines ordered A220s but I could be wrong.


Korean Air has 10 in their fleet
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:41 am

FluidFlow wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

To be fair you do not need exclusivity when you are on the A320, you sell more than enough to make money. Plus PW has a defacto exclusivity on the A220 and E2 series because no other OEM has a suitable engine even though there is no contractual exclusivity afaik.

Well true to what you have said, but you need to sell in (huge) volume to make money, easier to achieve for narrobody, tad bit difficult in widebody, especially post-COVID-19 for next few years.

Oh yes, PW exclusivity for A220 and E2, totally forgotten about them. Both are not here in Asia. Hope someone can bring them here. Thanks for the reminder.


I thought one of the Korean Airlines ordered A220s but I could be wrong.

Yes, there is. Korean Air with 10 A220-300 with limited international routes, SEL/GMP- HKG, CTS, OKJ, KIJ, AOJ, FUK and CJU - TPE, CTS.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:33 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Yes, there is. Korean Air with 10 A220-300 with limited international routes, SEL/GMP- HKG, CTS, OKJ, KIJ, AOJ, FUK and CJU - TPE, CTS.


And PUS-NRT/CTS/TPE/KIX
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:39 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Yes, there is. Korean Air with 10 A220-300 with limited international routes, SEL/GMP- HKG, CTS, OKJ, KIJ, AOJ, FUK and CJU - TPE, CTS.


And PUS-NRT/CTS/TPE/KIX

Thank you for the additional informaiton.
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:00 am

Re production cost, assuming Airbus has amortised or written down the R&D of the NEO, then they are down to the cost of production alone, also assuming they can twist supply chain arms to prevent costs from rising despite the mow rate. The choice then becomes one between the marginal cost of building more against the one-off cost of stopping the programme with whatever commercial penalties this triggers. I continue to expect Airbus to keep the A330 line running. Unless used airframes become the sole source of MRTT conversions (always possible) then these will help prop up low airliner sales.

As for the higher allowable door egress rate in an emergency, the door dimensions are unchanged. There may be localised changes to the interior to facilitate access to them. Idea first mooted almost 20 years back. Needed time, analyses, (probably) mitigating features and discussions with/acceptance by the AAs to get to this point now.
 
Jetport
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:24 pm

Wildlander wrote:
Re production cost, assuming Airbus has amortised or written down the R&D of the NEO, then they are down to the cost of production alone, also assuming they can twist supply chain arms to prevent costs from rising despite the mow rate. The choice then becomes one between the marginal cost of building more against the one-off cost of stopping the programme with whatever commercial penalties this triggers. I continue to expect Airbus to keep the A330 line running. Unless used airframes become the sole source of MRTT conversions (always possible) then these will help prop up low airliner sales.

As for the higher allowable door egress rate in an emergency, the door dimensions are unchanged. There may be localised changes to the interior to facilitate access to them. Idea first mooted almost 20 years back. Needed time, analyses, (probably) mitigating features and discussions with/acceptance by the AAs to get to this point now.


What "commercial penalties" are you referring to, I fail to see any? Surely there would be no customer commercial penalties. Most customers would be happy to cancel their A330NEO's. Airbus can make and store aircraft for any customers that aren't interested in canceling and have later deliveries. Are you referring to supplier contract "commercial penalties"? Even those should be quite small, since it will take at least a year to wind down the program.

The A330NEO is Delta's new 717 and MD90, they always need an orphan low production plane around.
 
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Wildlander
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:55 pm

Re possible "commercial penalties" I was looking at the bigger picture in terms of guaranteed asset values, buyback support, financing, etc. Plus the residual value hit to the worldwide fleet once a type goes out of production. All of which may, as suggested, add up to a small sum. There may also have been supplier deals that "promised" a certain number of aircraft/revenue stream/return on investment that would have to be made whole. Facilities may have to be repurposed, staff reallocated, retrained or laid off All-in-all, shuttering a programme is not cost free. I have no idea how much it might all add up for the A330. Finally, the demise of the A330 might be expected to help Boeing nudge 787-8/9 pricing upwards and sustain or allow rate increases.

I suspect that Airbus regretted stopping the A300F - yes the backlog was tiny, the circumstances were influenced by the A380F unilateral cancellation and the ultimate rate was minimal, but history shows it handed the market to the 767 and helped keep it on life support until the KC-46 came along.

Glad I'm not the one making such decisions.
 
Jetport
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:07 pm

Wildlander wrote:
Re possible "commercial penalties" I was looking at the bigger picture in terms of guaranteed asset values, buyback support, financing, etc. Plus the residual value hit to the worldwide fleet once a type goes out of production. All of which may, as suggested, add up to a small sum. There may also have been supplier deals that "promised" a certain number of aircraft/revenue stream/return on investment that would have to be made whole. Facilities may have to be repurposed, staff reallocated, retrained or laid off All-in-all, shuttering a programme is not cost free. I have no idea how much it might all add up for the A330. Finally, the demise of the A330 might be expected to help Boeing nudge 787-8/9 pricing upwards and sustain or allow rate increases.

I suspect that Airbus regretted stopping the A300F - yes the backlog was tiny, the circumstances were influenced by the A380F unilateral cancellation and the ultimate rate was minimal, but history shows it handed the market to the 767 and helped keep it on life support until the KC-46 came along.

Glad I'm not the one making such decisions.


I seriously doubt Airbus regrets cancelling the A300 program. You don't keep losing money to prevent your competitor from making money. If this thinking was widespread Capitalism wouldn't work, and as history has proved Capitalism is the only system that works at all.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus A330neo Sales Campaigns and Prospects Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:22 pm

Wildlander wrote:
Re possible "commercial penalties" I was looking at the bigger picture in terms of guaranteed asset values, buyback support, financing, etc. Plus the residual value hit to the worldwide fleet once a type goes out of production. All of which may, as suggested, add up to a small sum. There may also have been supplier deals that "promised" a certain number of aircraft/revenue stream/return on investment that would have to be made whole. Facilities may have to be repurposed, staff reallocated, retrained or laid off All-in-all, shuttering a programme is not cost free. I have no idea how much it might all add up for the A330. Finally, the demise of the A330 might be expected to help Boeing nudge 787-8/9 pricing upwards and sustain or allow rate increases.


It is too early to discuss stopping the A330NEO production. Even the 717 trudged along for years.


Boeing was in quite the bid at the end if the 717, but Douglas had little clauses to buyout vendors for much less than they thought and obligate them to support the fleet.

That said, I would be shocked if less than 4 more years of production didn't happen. There are enough viable customers.

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