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FlyCaledonian
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:44 pm

lx2iah wrote:
Here’s a list from Airlines for America showing when the announcements were made (from 1929 to the present) and the closing dates with the merged airline’s (new) name:

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/u-s-ai ... uisitions/

How this brings back memories of all these former airlines, their unique logos, and “way different” varieties of planes to spot - compared to today’s “boring” lineups…

Y’all have done a great job posting all these memorable pictures.

It's interesting that why it has some partial acquisitions (e.g. AA with EA's Latin American routes; DL with PA's TATL routes) it omits UA's separate acquisition of PA's Pacific routes and LHR routes.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:54 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
lx2iah wrote:
Here’s a list from Airlines for America showing when the announcements were made (from 1929 to the present) and the closing dates with the merged airline’s (new) name:

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/u-s-ai ... uisitions/

How this brings back memories of all these former airlines, their unique logos, and “way different” varieties of planes to spot - compared to today’s “boring” lineups…

Y’all have done a great job posting all these memorable pictures.

It's interesting that why it has some partial acquisitions (e.g. AA with EA's Latin American routes; DL with PA's TATL routes) it omits UA's separate acquisition of PA's Pacific routes and LHR routes.

I wondered that myself.
Simple hypothesis: they list partial acquisitions after which (relatively soon) the rest of "acquired" airline was no more. And they do not list the ones, where the "donor" airline went on for some noticeable period of time.

They obviously omit other important transactions of the days gone by: Panagra-Braniff, EA (or was it Continental?) acquisition of Braniff Latin American routes, AOA-PanAm, PanAm-NYRBA, sale of PanAm's Brazilian interests as PanAir do Brazil to local investors, sale of PanAm Berlin operations to Lufthansa, etc.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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Lpbri
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:06 pm

I remember I was working at ICT when the Continental-Frontier merger took place. I saw Frontier 737s all lined up on a taxiway. They would land, park then takeoff a few hours later. Needless to say, I was puzzled by all this. I was told they were transferring ownership in Kansas because the taxes were lower than Colorado.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:31 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:

After dereg and various bilaterals, PA's value was the aircraft and only the aircraft. Laker and BCAL on one side, Delta, Braniff, People Express on the other. PA overpaid for National and that was the end, TW put most of their money into turning STL into a fortress hub with the wrong aircraft, the rest they spent on making JFK the gateway to a World City while everyone else was overflying it.

PA and TW had only their reputation--that and $.25 got you a can of coke.


TWA's biggest problem was Icahn. He bought Ozark turning STL into a fortress hub, but it was TWA's only real hub. Icahn tried to buy the remains of Eastern but Icahn was cheap and Lorenzo was greedy, They built up JFK domestically at one point, then wound it down. They also tried an ATL hub(let) after EA shut down. The real deal would have been TWA and America West in the early 90's. THAT would have created a viable national carrier. But circumstances and timing killed TWA's chances. There was also a rumor at one time that post-Icahn, USAir kicked the tires on a TWA acquisition but due to USAir's higher labor costs at the time, TWA would have been a bad buy. WN at STL probably killed it because US really didn't have to deal with WN much back then but the costs would have scuttled a few routes of TWA.
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gwrudolph
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:13 am

I still think to this day one of the best most opportunistic plays was United’s PanAm Pacific acquisition. Unlike some other mergers and acquisitions, this one returned a lot of value for many years thereafter and gave them the edge in the Pacific they still hold today (notwithstanding the pandemic issue).

The only other better plays in my opinion were the AA and UA Heathrow purchases, but they came at a much higher price

Perhaps the other one that was a great series of plays was AA’s various acquisitions that built the strong South American foothold and brand they have today
 
gwrudolph
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:24 am

N649DL wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
I've often wondered why airlines haven't kept multiple brands under one ownership group (i.e., TWA, an American Airlines company being a permanent thing rather than letting the former's brand disappear.) There are some rental car companies which do it.

mga707 wrote:

Your 'super hazy' memory is actually pretty good. Yes, the stillborn D.C. Air. The Feds were supposedly only going to approve the UA/US combo if US divested it's DCA slots, along with some of it's aircraft, which would have formed D.C. Air. Since United already had the IAD hub, and US Airways still had their BWI hub at that time, the reasoning was that the combined UA/US would have too much control of the D.C.-area market unless the US dominance at DCA was eliminated.

The other unintended consequence of this never-consummated merger was that once the UA/US hookup was announced, AA very quickly finalized their acquisition of then-tottering TWA. It was mainly a knee-jerk reaction on their part. Otherwise AA would have probably let TWA shut down and then just picked at the carcass.


Was it ever said what DCAir's fleet would have looked like? I feel like I heard something about F100s at the time.


IIRC, it definitely involved the US 757 fleet. Also MetroJet was around back then so maybe that operation as well.

Max Q wrote:
STT757 wrote:


CO and UA was and is the best strategic merger in the airline business


Are you serious? It's amongst the sloppiest in modern history. Recall CO's Smisek got forced out of being CEO for getting his hands caught red handed dealing dirty with the Port Authority on the so-called "Chairman's Route." And he was an attorney, which says a lot about the passive lobbyist culture of those two airlines coming together. If anything, it revealed the worst sides of both airlines in terms of culture and (arguably) is still recovering from it.


What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.
 
N649DL
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:35 am

gwrudolph wrote:
N649DL wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
I've often wondered why airlines haven't kept multiple brands under one ownership group (i.e., TWA, an American Airlines company being a permanent thing rather than letting the former's brand disappear.) There are some rental car companies which do it.



Was it ever said what DCAir's fleet would have looked like? I feel like I heard something about F100s at the time.


IIRC, it definitely involved the US 757 fleet. Also MetroJet was around back then so maybe that operation as well.

Max Q wrote:


Are you serious? It's amongst the sloppiest in modern history. Recall CO's Smisek got forced out of being CEO for getting his hands caught red handed dealing dirty with the Port Authority on the so-called "Chairman's Route." And he was an attorney, which says a lot about the passive lobbyist culture of those two airlines coming together. If anything, it revealed the worst sides of both airlines in terms of culture and (arguably) is still recovering from it.


What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.


Uh, no. CO was *NOT* strong in Latin America, at the very least UA flew into the core destinations that mattered in South America. If you're talking about CO flying a 73G into Honduras from Houston or an ERJ on LAX-Mexico then maybe. You cannot forget about Smisek and his force out by the board and the dumpster fire that Oscar had to pick up from him (and subsequent heart attack where he had to go on leave.) Just shows the pedigree of some of upper management of some of the ex-CO folks like Smisek. The UA was so lost back in early 2016 they almost hired back on Gordon Bethune to straighten things out (bad idea as I'm pretty sure that guy has dementia these days).

My point? UA is just another crooked Chicago-based organization: They should've learned something after Smisek was in-charge (and basically Lorenzo Part II) but instead they didn't and that's why things like "Leggingsgate" and "Dr. Dao" occurred after he was shown the door.
 
UA444
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:23 am

gwrudolph wrote:
I still think to this day one of the best most opportunistic plays was United’s PanAm Pacific acquisition. Unlike some other mergers and acquisitions, this one returned a lot of value for many years thereafter and gave them the edge in the Pacific they still hold today (notwithstanding the pandemic issue).

The only other better plays in my opinion were the AA and UA Heathrow purchases, but they came at a much higher price

Perhaps the other one that was a great series of plays was AA’s various acquisitions that built the strong South American foothold and brand they have today

They were not liked by labor unions at the end of their runs, but Dick Ferris and Stephen Wolfe are two of the most important people in UA’s history. It was under them the airline went from a strictly domestic carrier to an international powerhouse and global airline. They deserve enormous amounts of credit for seizing the opportunity when it presented itself.

As you said, the PA Pacific routes still continues to be a crown jewel, along with having LHR long before CO, DL, NW, and US could ever go there. While AA got LHR from TW, they still had a split operation at Gatwick while UA was all LHR. Couple that with being a driving force in forming Star Alliance, they were truly the class of the USA based airlines abroad until 9/11. Those assets also helped them get out of a long bankruptcy by making the airline worth saving whole.
 
Max Q
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:05 am

gwrudolph wrote:
N649DL wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
I've often wondered why airlines haven't kept multiple brands under one ownership group (i.e., TWA, an American Airlines company being a permanent thing rather than letting the former's brand disappear.) There are some rental car companies which do it.



Was it ever said what DCAir's fleet would have looked like? I feel like I heard something about F100s at the time.


IIRC, it definitely involved the US 757 fleet. Also MetroJet was around back then so maybe that operation as well.

Max Q wrote:


Are you serious? It's amongst the sloppiest in modern history. Recall CO's Smisek got forced out of being CEO for getting his hands caught red handed dealing dirty with the Port Authority on the so-called "Chairman's Route." And he was an attorney, which says a lot about the passive lobbyist culture of those two airlines coming together. If anything, it revealed the worst sides of both airlines in terms of culture and (arguably) is still recovering from it.


What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.



Well said


CO and UA merging had the best potential in the industry, it’s working well and will get even better as the world returns to normal
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Utah744
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:31 am

I was a RC DC-9 Captain at the time of the NWA merger. When the ops were merged I had 3 NW FAs on a DTW-BOS flight with some sort of meal service. In my FA briefing I found out they had never been on a DC-9 much less crewed it. I told them I would fly as slow as possible and maybe give then and extra 10 minutes. ATC let me do that and I explained why and would take any altitude to make it happen. In BOS I got a report from them and they just barely made it. Most of the merger didn't work as well. While there were ugly events in the merger I can't complain as I retired at the then mandatory age 60 as seniority #32 out of 6500 pilots and a B-744 Captain.
You are never too old to learn something stupid
 
gwrudolph
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:06 am

N649DL wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
N649DL wrote:

IIRC, it definitely involved the US 757 fleet. Also MetroJet was around back then so maybe that operation as well.



Are you serious? It's amongst the sloppiest in modern history. Recall CO's Smisek got forced out of being CEO for getting his hands caught red handed dealing dirty with the Port Authority on the so-called "Chairman's Route." And he was an attorney, which says a lot about the passive lobbyist culture of those two airlines coming together. If anything, it revealed the worst sides of both airlines in terms of culture and (arguably) is still recovering from it.


What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.


Uh, no. CO was *NOT* strong in Latin America, at the very least UA flew into the core destinations that mattered in South America. If you're talking about CO flying a 73G into Honduras from Houston or an ERJ on LAX-Mexico then maybe. You cannot forget about Smisek and his force out by the board and the dumpster fire that Oscar had to pick up from him (and subsequent heart attack where he had to go on leave.) Just shows the pedigree of some of upper management of some of the ex-CO folks like Smisek. The UA was so lost back in early 2016 they almost hired back on Gordon Bethune to straighten things out (bad idea as I'm pretty sure that guy has dementia these days).

My point? UA is just another crooked Chicago-based organization: They should've learned something after Smisek was in-charge (and basically Lorenzo Part II) but instead they didn't and that's why things like "Leggingsgate" and "Dr. Dao" occurred after he was shown the door.


What are you talking about. I never was a CO fan, but they had some nice Latin American operations. EZE, GRU, GIG, LIM, BOG, UIO, SAL, GUA, PTY, CCS, MGA, BZE, several Honduran cities, many Mexican cities, and a good amount of Caribbean. Only AA had deeper Latin American operations at the time and still today
 
bigb
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:02 pm

N649DL wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
N649DL wrote:

IIRC, it definitely involved the US 757 fleet. Also MetroJet was around back then so maybe that operation as well.



Are you serious? It's amongst the sloppiest in modern history. Recall CO's Smisek got forced out of being CEO for getting his hands caught red handed dealing dirty with the Port Authority on the so-called "Chairman's Route." And he was an attorney, which says a lot about the passive lobbyist culture of those two airlines coming together. If anything, it revealed the worst sides of both airlines in terms of culture and (arguably) is still recovering from it.


What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.


Uh, no. CO was *NOT* strong in Latin America, at the very least UA flew into the core destinations that mattered in South America. If you're talking about CO flying a 73G into Honduras from Houston or an ERJ on LAX-Mexico then maybe. You cannot forget about Smisek and his force out by the board and the dumpster fire that Oscar had to pick up from him (and subsequent heart attack where he had to go on leave.) Just shows the pedigree of some of upper management of some of the ex-CO folks like Smisek. The UA was so lost back in early 2016 they almost hired back on Gordon Bethune to straighten things out (bad idea as I'm pretty sure that guy has dementia these days).

My point? UA is just another crooked Chicago-based organization: They should've learned something after Smisek was in-charge (and basically Lorenzo Part II) but instead they didn't and that's why things like "Leggingsgate" and "Dr. Dao" occurred after he was shown the door.


Remove your blinders for a second, Flying to core destinations do not = strong Lat AM presence..... Regardless of aircraft, CO offered many options of flying into Latin American thanks to the IAH hub. The only other operator that top CO operation was AA with their MIA hubs.
 
N649DL
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 pm

bigb wrote:
N649DL wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

What? Bad execution and a bad CEO don’t make a bad strategic fit. The strategic fit couldn’t have been better. Other than CLE, no overlap. Decent fleet matchup, great matchup of Latin America where CO was strong and UA was weak, and Pacific where the opposite was true.


Uh, no. CO was *NOT* strong in Latin America, at the very least UA flew into the core destinations that mattered in South America. If you're talking about CO flying a 73G into Honduras from Houston or an ERJ on LAX-Mexico then maybe. You cannot forget about Smisek and his force out by the board and the dumpster fire that Oscar had to pick up from him (and subsequent heart attack where he had to go on leave.) Just shows the pedigree of some of upper management of some of the ex-CO folks like Smisek. The UA was so lost back in early 2016 they almost hired back on Gordon Bethune to straighten things out (bad idea as I'm pretty sure that guy has dementia these days).

My point? UA is just another crooked Chicago-based organization: They should've learned something after Smisek was in-charge (and basically Lorenzo Part II) but instead they didn't and that's why things like "Leggingsgate" and "Dr. Dao" occurred after he was shown the door.


Remove your blinders for a second, Flying to core destinations do not = strong Lat AM presence..... Regardless of aircraft, CO offered many options of flying into Latin American thanks to the IAH hub. The only other operator that top CO operation was AA with their MIA hubs.



Hello?.......DL in ATL as well??
 
bkflyguy
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:37 pm

sunking737 wrote:
I worked for RC in MSP, That was a nightmare merger. NWA thought we should have a Zero or One added to our employee numbers. We became know has red tail/green tails..I'm proud to say I'm a duck, and will always be a duck.Our logo was a duck/goose, named Herman. The biggest screw up was putting NWA ground crews working RC flights. RC ground crews had never touch jets bigger then the 757, ever. RC had CV 580, DC-9-10-30-50, MD 80 727, and just received 3 757. NWA had 727, 757, DC-10, and 747. NWA sent DC-9's to their gates and the other way around. I was put on another crew (NWA) we had planes coming into gates no idea from where or going outbound to ??? Bags mail, cargo was piled up at every gate. It took weeks to clear that mess up. I won't even get started on the union mess that alone took several years to get everyone into one union.


I remember the mess well - my dad started at NorthCentral and retired from NWA just before the Delta merger when NWA locked the mechanics out. About the only good thing he said about Northwest was that they were ruthless competitors.
 
bigb
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:53 pm

N649DL wrote:
bigb wrote:
N649DL wrote:

Uh, no. CO was *NOT* strong in Latin America, at the very least UA flew into the core destinations that mattered in South America. If you're talking about CO flying a 73G into Honduras from Houston or an ERJ on LAX-Mexico then maybe. You cannot forget about Smisek and his force out by the board and the dumpster fire that Oscar had to pick up from him (and subsequent heart attack where he had to go on leave.) Just shows the pedigree of some of upper management of some of the ex-CO folks like Smisek. The UA was so lost back in early 2016 they almost hired back on Gordon Bethune to straighten things out (bad idea as I'm pretty sure that guy has dementia these days).

My point? UA is just another crooked Chicago-based organization: They should've learned something after Smisek was in-charge (and basically Lorenzo Part II) but instead they didn't and that's why things like "Leggingsgate" and "Dr. Dao" occurred after he was shown the door.


Remove your blinders for a second, Flying to core destinations do not = strong Lat AM presence..... Regardless of aircraft, CO offered many options of flying into Latin American thanks to the IAH hub. The only other operator that top CO operation was AA with their MIA hubs.



Hello?.......DL in ATL as well??


Again, the only carrier with a strong Latin Am presence was AA with their MIA hub.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:21 pm

lx2iah wrote:
Here’s a list from Airlines for America showing when the announcements were made (from 1929 to the present) and the closing dates with the merged airline’s (new) name:

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/u-s-ai ... uisitions/

How this brings back memories of all these former airlines, their unique logos, and “way different” varieties of planes to spot - compared to today’s “boring” lineups…

Y’all have done a great job posting all these memorable pictures.


Well it loses credibility with me when they list North Central, Southern, and Hughes Airwest as a one time merger. SO and NC were the dates listed, RW came along in 1980 and wasn't fully integrated until after the 'Republic west' period.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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American 767
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:55 pm

The earliest ones I personally remember are from the late 80s:

1988: British Caledonian is taken over by British Airways (yes I know we are talking about the US, not Europe, but that's just to add one merger I can remember as far back as possible).

1989: - Piedmont is taken over by US Air, hence new hubs in Charlotte and Baltimore.
- The Eastern Shuttle becomes the Trump Shuttle.
- Pan Am and Northwest were thinking of merging, but that one never happened.
- And I believe that it was in late 89, or early 90, that American started building its Miami hub.
Ben Soriano
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:29 pm

Does anyone recall the almost merger of HP & UA in 1999 or 2000? United apparently was the originator of the idea, but Ultimately Bill Franke declined the offer. I am still to this day am unsure of what United was up to and why?
 
dca1
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:33 pm

What a nice thread everybody! I appreciate learning all of the history and the pictures as well. And just for fun, I would be curious to hear your predictions for the next big merger in the US. (or next round of merger-mania)
 
UA444
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:04 pm

Surprised with all the pics posted nobody posted the PA livery 747SPs and L-1011’s with UA titles and logo on tail right after the Pacific purchase went through
 
N649DL
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:23 pm

American 767 wrote:
The earliest ones I personally remember are from the late 80s:

1988: British Caledonian is taken over by British Airways (yes I know we are talking about the US, not Europe, but that's just to add one merger I can remember as far back as possible).

1989: - Piedmont is taken over by US Air, hence new hubs in Charlotte and Baltimore.
- The Eastern Shuttle becomes the Trump Shuttle.
- Pan Am and Northwest were thinking of merging, but that one never happened.
- And I believe that it was in late 89, or early 90, that American started building its Miami hub.


Pan Am and Northwest merging almost happened in 1989. NW also brought in KLM as a partner into the deal. I think the Pan Am folks didn't get along with them and that was one of the reasons why the deal was killed off.

AA's MIA hub opened in 1989 but it was really small. RDU was the largest hub for them on the East Coast until EA liquidated and they really started to built up MIA and de-hub RDU and BNA.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:06 pm

N649DL wrote:
American 767 wrote:
The earliest ones I personally remember are from the late 80s:

1988: British Caledonian is taken over by British Airways (yes I know we are talking about the US, not Europe, but that's just to add one merger I can remember as far back as possible).

1989: - Piedmont is taken over by US Air, hence new hubs in Charlotte and Baltimore.
- The Eastern Shuttle becomes the Trump Shuttle.
- Pan Am and Northwest were thinking of merging, but that one never happened.
- And I believe that it was in late 89, or early 90, that American started building its Miami hub.


Pan Am and Northwest merging almost happened in 1989. NW also brought in KLM as a partner into the deal. I think the Pan Am folks didn't get along with them and that was one of the reasons why the deal was killed off.

AA's MIA hub opened in 1989 but it was really small. RDU was the largest hub for them on the East Coast until EA liquidated and they really started to built up MIA and de-hub RDU and BNA.


My memory on PanAm-Northwest combination is obviously fuzzy, but it tells me it was a buyout of Northwest by Al Checci and Co, rather than "KLM not liking it", that prevented the combination from taking place.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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N649DL
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:09 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
N649DL wrote:
American 767 wrote:
The earliest ones I personally remember are from the late 80s:

1988: British Caledonian is taken over by British Airways (yes I know we are talking about the US, not Europe, but that's just to add one merger I can remember as far back as possible).

1989: - Piedmont is taken over by US Air, hence new hubs in Charlotte and Baltimore.
- The Eastern Shuttle becomes the Trump Shuttle.
- Pan Am and Northwest were thinking of merging, but that one never happened.
- And I believe that it was in late 89, or early 90, that American started building its Miami hub.


Pan Am and Northwest merging almost happened in 1989. NW also brought in KLM as a partner into the deal. I think the Pan Am folks didn't get along with them and that was one of the reasons why the deal was killed off.

AA's MIA hub opened in 1989 but it was really small. RDU was the largest hub for them on the East Coast until EA liquidated and they really started to built up MIA and de-hub RDU and BNA.


My memory on PanAm-Northwest combination is obviously fuzzy, but it tells me it was a buyout of Northwest by Al Checci and Co, rather than "KLM not liking it", that prevented the combination from taking place.


Not sure about that either. I think Al Checci was all for it, but I'll have to use my Newspapers.com account to further investigate.
 
Max Q
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:21 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Does anyone recall the almost merger of HP & UA in 1999 or 2000? United apparently was the originator of the idea, but Ultimately Bill Franke declined the offer. I am still to this day am unsure of what United was up to and why?



IIRC it was HP that approached UA who were never enthusiastic about the idea or the Unions at UA, I think there was government opposition to a potential deal as well with major slot concessions demanded making it uneconomic
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:42 pm

N649DL wrote:
American 767 wrote:
The earliest ones I personally remember are from the late 80s:

1988: British Caledonian is taken over by British Airways (yes I know we are talking about the US, not Europe, but that's just to add one merger I can remember as far back as possible).

1989: - Piedmont is taken over by US Air, hence new hubs in Charlotte and Baltimore.
- The Eastern Shuttle becomes the Trump Shuttle.
- Pan Am and Northwest were thinking of merging, but that one never happened.
- And I believe that it was in late 89, or early 90, that American started building its Miami hub.


Pan Am and Northwest merging almost happened in 1989. NW also brought in KLM as a partner into the deal. I think the Pan Am folks didn't get along with them and that was one of the reasons why the deal was killed off.

AA's MIA hub opened in 1989 but it was really small. RDU was the largest hub for them on the East Coast until EA liquidated and they really started to built up MIA and de-hub RDU and BNA.


The AA MIA hub grew on the back of AA's purchase of EA's Latin America route map.
 
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:41 am

dca1 wrote:
What a nice thread everybody! I appreciate learning all of the history and the pictures as well. And just for fun, I would be curious to hear your predictions for the next big merger in the US. (or next round of merger-mania)


Nothing solely-US. Which means that the rules against foreign ownership will have to go away (and if you thought that Social Security funding was a 'third rail of American politics', you ain't seen nothing yet.)

Not likely, but more likely than a merger involving a US carrier, will be one of the Big 3 going Ch 7. AA seems to be the favorite of bloggers/analysts, DL would get DFW, UA gets MIA, NYC and WSH become open cities much like LAX and LAS, whatever. I don't see it happening. But if Texas secedes, they'll need a flag carrier...:-)
 
caflyboy
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:03 pm

And another one from the airport I used to use. One of my favorite flying around in 86
 
caflyboy
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:07 pm

 
caflyboy
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:44 am

and
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:29 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:


Ozark was about to go under when TWA bought them. However, adding Ozark gave TWA a fortress hub at STL. Unfortunately, TWA ended up with a pile of debt as a result of the merger.


This is not true. OZ was not about to go under and they were profitable. It was however, going to be difficult for them to grow with TWA at STL and new gates were hard to come by.


Over time, Ozark started facing stiff competition on almost every major route, from TWA or others, but the real end catalyst was the failure of the Philly hub attempt.Ozark wasn’t the only airline being growth constrained to try PHL and fail, Midway did the same thing.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: 35 years ago merger-mania 1986

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:42 pm

FlyingColours wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I always wondered why Pan Am wasn't swallowed up whole in a merger, rather than breaking off pieces and selling them off? I imagine there would have been antitrust issues, because the purchasing airline would have had a dominant position in US overseas travel.


The company was drowning in debt, it was forced to sell off its profitable parts to try and stay afloat. Had there been an airline willing to merge with them (as a complete unit before the sell-offs) they would have found themselves knackered too.

Phil
FlyingColours

Beyond debt, Pan Am was an operational mess, struggling with activist unions always demanding “Flag Carrier” pay and contracts higher than any other airline, no matter the losses, legacy station and treaty contracts, and a huge base of retirees to pay for. In the end, there was just no way to save PanAm.

Even several years after the BK and shutdown, when Carnival acquired the PanAm branding, the Union and Big-time New York pols demanded that the new Pan Am hire ex-PA employees at the old contract rates and rules, honor the retiree benefits, and start paying the PA retirements. There was even legislation introduced by someone in Congress to force them to, iirc.

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