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fcogafa
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:28 pm

Polot wrote:
There were 156 cancellations btw, all 737 Maxes.


Seattle Times says it is 122 last month, 156 is for the year to date
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -momentum/
Last edited by fcogafa on Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:32 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Polot wrote:
There were 156 cancellations btw, all 737 Maxes.


Seattle Times says it is 122 last month, 156 is for the year to date

Boeing has 190 737max cancellations YTD. According to Momo1435’s screenshot from the February update (posted earlier in thread) it was 34 cancellations at end of February.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:24 pm

Per Seattle Times, 15 777Xs and 1 787 were removed from the accounting records for unlikely. Emirates 777X since it was believed to be behind a substantial portion of that number? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-momentum
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:27 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Per Seattle Times, 15 777Xs and 1 787 were removed from the accounting records for unlikely. Emirates 777X since it was believed to be behind a substantial portion of that number? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-momentum

They were not removed. They were put back in
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:39 pm

Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Per Seattle Times, 15 777Xs and 1 787 were removed from the accounting records for unlikely. Emirates 777X since it was believed to be behind a substantial portion of that number? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-momentum

They were not removed. They were put back in


No, they were removed from the unlikely accounting adjustments. Meaning they are now back in the official backlog. I'm not sure what are you arguing?

"While Boeing had to take those 14 MAXs out of its official backlog, in another positive development it was able to add back in 15 orders for widebody 777Xs and one for a 787 that had previously been too tenuous to include, either because the airline’s credit was reassessed or a contract was renegotiated."
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:45 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Per Seattle Times, 15 777Xs and 1 787 were removed from the accounting records for unlikely. Emirates 777X since it was believed to be behind a substantial portion of that number? https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-momentum

They were not removed. They were put back in


No, they were removed from the unlikely accounting adjustments. Meaning they are now back in the official backlog. I'm not sure what are you arguing?

"While Boeing had to take those 14 MAXs out of its official backlog, in another positive development it was able to add back in 15 orders for widebody 777Xs and one for a 787 that had previously been too tenuous to include, either because the airline’s credit was reassessed or a contract was renegotiated."

Apologies thought you meant removed from the backlog
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:28 am

So of the 122 cancelled MAXes in March, I understnd 50 was for Turkish?

Who else?
 
DartHerald
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:56 am

Someone83 wrote:
So of the 122 cancelled MAXes in March, I understnd 50 was for Turkish?

Who else?


Is that all the Maxes Turkish have on order? Does it look as though they are going all-Airbus for their NB fleet?
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:01 am

DartHerald wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
So of the 122 cancelled MAXes in March, I understnd 50 was for Turkish?

Who else?


Is that all the Maxes Turkish have on order? Does it look as though they are going all-Airbus for their NB fleet?

No, TK ordered 75 IIRC, 12 have been delivered (11 MAX-8, 1 MAX-9).
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
tommy1808
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:03 am

DartHerald wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
So of the 122 cancelled MAXes in March, I understnd 50 was for Turkish?

Who else?


Is that all the Maxes Turkish have on order? Does it look as though they are going all-Airbus for their NB fleet?


The apparently do keep the options: https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 72.article

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:43 am

DartHerald wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
So of the 122 cancelled MAXes in March, I understnd 50 was for Turkish?

Who else?


Is that all the Maxes Turkish have on order? Does it look as though they are going all-Airbus for their NB fleet?


Oh that’s strange, they have a lot of 737-800’s that will eventually need replacing!
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:44 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Oh that’s strange, they have a lot of 737-800’s that will eventually need replacing!


That they have kept their options implies they are still interested in the MAX as a replacement for those frames, but I expect due to COVID their current traffic does not support expansion, which is what the orders they have cancelled likely were intended.
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:31 pm

Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Oh that’s strange, they have a lot of 737-800’s that will eventually need replacing!


That they have kept their options implies they are still interested in the MAX as a replacement for those frames, but I expect due to COVID their current traffic does not support expansion, which is what the orders they have cancelled likely were intended.


Might also be an political decision as Erdogan tends to meddle in business he shouldn't. See Turkeys issues with defense products of Boeing/US...
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:21 pm

I'm a bit surprised that most of the MAX cancellation were not listed as ASC Changes before, without the massive WN order they would be straight back into negative numbers.


The March order update screenshots for future comparisons.

Image


ASC606 totals:
Image
 
oldJoe
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:10 pm

Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Oh that’s strange, they have a lot of 737-800’s that will eventually need replacing!


That they have kept their options implies they are still interested in the MAX as a replacement for those frames, but I expect due to COVID their current traffic does not support expansion, which is what the orders they have cancelled likely were intended.


Let`s not forget their subsidiaries. AnadoluJet has 41 737-800 and no Max on orde and SunExpress has 58 737-800 and 42 MAX on order.
I see the options kept more for these two airlines. ( my guess )
 
Captaincurious
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Production/Delivery Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:28 pm

Turkish Airlines cancel 10 orders and turn 40 orders into options. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailys ... orders/amp
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Production/Delivery Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:04 pm

In regards to TK’s order, how many do they have on FIRM backlog ?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Production/Delivery Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:31 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
In regards to TK’s order, how many do they have on FIRM backlog ?

They now have 13 left on order (+12 delivered pre grounding).
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:31 am

DAE orders 15 Boeing 737-8 MAX Airplanes

https://dubaiaerospace.com/2021/04/20/d ... airplanes/

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-04-20 ... 7-MAX-Jets

- Lessor's 737-8 portfolio grows to 37 airplanes
- New order follows DAE's successful 737-8 agreement with American Airlines

I believe this is their 1st direct order with Boeing for the MAX, their previous deals for the MAX were Sale/Leaseback constrcutions with airlines, like the agreement they have with AA.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:37 am

As always with the MAX orders, there is a question whether this is actually a new order or whether someone else har cancelled the «same» order, i.e. This is in reality a transfer of orders?
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:39 am

Someone83 wrote:
As always with the MAX orders, there is a question whether this is actually a new order or whether someone else har cancelled the «same» order, i.e. This is in reality a transfer of orders?

We won’t know till month-end
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:52 am

Momo1435 wrote:
DAE orders 15 Boeing 737-8 MAX Airplanes

https://dubaiaerospace.com/2021/04/20/d ... airplanes/

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-04-20 ... 7-MAX-Jets

- Lessor's 737-8 portfolio grows to 37 airplanes
- New order follows DAE's successful 737-8 agreement with American Airlines

I believe this is their 1st direct order with Boeing for the MAX, their previous deals for the MAX were Sale/Leaseback constrcutions with airlines, like the agreement they have with AA.


Nice to see a lessor ordering the MAX as it’s been hundreds of cancellations by lessors recently.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri May 07, 2021 5:21 pm

Airbus April

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

new orders
Delta: 25x A321neo
Avolon: 14x A320neo
Avolon: 8x A321neo
Private: 1x A319neo

Cancellations:
A320neo: 16x
A321neo: 6x

Net total 2021 so far: -35
 
MoreLegRoomPLS
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri May 07, 2021 5:42 pm

Details of cancellations and conversions:
-16x 320neo Avolon
-6x 321neo Avolon
-1x 320neo BOC Aviation
+1x 320neo TAP Air Portugal
+2x 320neo SMBC
-2x 321neo SMBC
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri May 07, 2021 6:06 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus April

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

new orders
Delta: 25x A321neo
Avolon: 14x A320neo
Avolon: 8x A321neo
Private: 1x A319neo

Cancellations:
A320neo: 16x
A321neo: 6x

Net total 2021 so far: -35

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
Details of cancellations and conversions:
-16x 320neo Avolon
-6x 321neo Avolon
-1x 320neo BOC Aviation
+1x 320neo TAP Air Portugal
+2x 320neo SMBC
-2x 321neo SMBC

Interesting... Avolon has cancelled 22 A320neo/A321neo, and ordered 22 A320neo/A321neo, with the balance shifted +2 A321neo in the new order. I wonder why it was structured like this as opposed to a conversion?

V/F
Last edited by VirginFlyer on Fri May 07, 2021 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri May 07, 2021 6:18 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus April

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

new orders
Delta: 25x A321neo
Avolon: 14x A320neo
Avolon: 8x A321neo
Private: 1x A319neo

Cancellations:
A320neo: 16x
A321neo: 6x

Net total 2021 so far: -35

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
Details of cancellations and conversions:
-16x 320neo Avolon
-6x 321neo Avolon
-1x 320neo BOC Aviation
+1x 320neo TAP Air Portugal
+2x 320neo SMBC
-2x 321neo SMBC

Interesting... Avolon has cancelled 22 A320neo/A321neo, and ordered 22 A320neo/A321neo, with the balance shifted +2 A321neo in the new order. I wonder why it was structured as this as opposed to a conversion?

V/F

Overall the terms, price, and delivery schedule for all 22 planes is probably completely different so it is essentially a brand new contract. It’s not a simple they decided they wanted 2 more A321neos and 2 less A320neo. It wouldn’t surprise me if the total value of the order was exactly the same despite now slightly more A321neo than before.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Boeing Net 8 orders, 25 orders 17 cancellations

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/11/boeing- ... unded.html
 
MoreLegRoomPLS
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 4:42 pm

17 Boeing cancellations are all 737Max:

3x 737Max Air Lease Corporation
2x 737Max Comair
1x 737Max GECAS
8x 737Max SMBC
3x 737Max Timaero Ireland

Source: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 4:54 pm

Any ASC 606 changes?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 5:08 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Any ASC 606 changes?


None.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 5:44 pm

The orders are:

3x 737Max Air Lease Corporation
14x 737Max Dubai Aerospace Enterprise
5x 777F Silk Way West
3x 737Max Unidentified.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 7:14 pm

ALC did something similar to the Avolon Airbus deal. I can see ALC financing 3 whitetails here for a new customer in exchange for the cancellation of 3 new production slots.

The UFO order could be an order transfer from the lessor to an airline.

Net order total for Boeing: 84


For the administration the April screenshots.

Image

Image
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 11, 2021 7:20 pm

Wouldn’t surprise me if the DAE order is taking over white tails or another lessor’s order as well.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed May 12, 2021 2:13 am

Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus April

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

new orders
Delta: 25x A321neo
Avolon: 14x A320neo
Avolon: 8x A321neo
Private: 1x A319neo

Cancellations:
A320neo: 16x
A321neo: 6x

Net total 2021 so far: -35

Thanks for the figures. Glad to see the light at the end of the tunnel for Airbus with -35 order now. Can't imagine Airbus ending the year with negative order. Was there any year Airbus has had negative order?
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu May 13, 2021 6:32 pm

Alaska Airlines has firmed up 13 737-9 MAX options. This is on top of the order they announced in December, which was firmed up earlier this year.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 90067.html

it's being discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1460775
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed May 19, 2021 4:15 pm

This article try to explain the reason behind a leasing company ordering and cancel an order at the same time

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-woul ... bastajian/

Why would an operating lessor want to cancel an order, only to immediately replace it with an identically sized new order (albeit with a slightly different variant mix)?
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 25, 2021 9:07 am

One more MAX order from a leasing company.


'SMBC Aviation Capital Orders 14 Boeing 737 MAX Jets"

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-05-25 ... 7-MAX-Jets


I believe hey have been one of the few leasing companies who did not fully cancel any of their MAX orders.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 25, 2021 3:52 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
One more MAX order from a leasing company.


'SMBC Aviation Capital Orders 14 Boeing 737 MAX Jets"

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-05-25 ... 7-MAX-Jets


I believe hey have been one of the few leasing companies who did not fully cancel any of their MAX orders.


A week ago they cancelled 8 737MAX. Lol.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 25, 2021 9:53 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
One more MAX order from a leasing company.


'SMBC Aviation Capital Orders 14 Boeing 737 MAX Jets"

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-05-25 ... 7-MAX-Jets


I believe hey have been one of the few leasing companies who did not fully cancel any of their MAX orders.


A week ago they cancelled 8 737MAX. Lol.


Probably a situation where they could cancel an old “expensive” order for free (due to the delays), then order replacements at an overall lower cost. Very likely compensation being used to help fund the new order.
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jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue May 25, 2021 10:09 pm

scbriml wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
One more MAX order from a leasing company.


'SMBC Aviation Capital Orders 14 Boeing 737 MAX Jets"

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2021-05-25 ... 7-MAX-Jets


I believe hey have been one of the few leasing companies who did not fully cancel any of their MAX orders.


A week ago they cancelled 8 737MAX. Lol.


Probably a situation where they could cancel an old “expensive” order for free (due to the delays), then order replacements at an overall lower cost. Very likely compensation being used to help fund the new order.


Agree - I just find it really interesting that both Airbus and Boeing have cancellations and then new orders recently, as opposed to simply amending existing contracts. Its just a contractual thing, the parties really are in the same position.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:59 am

Looks like Lufthansa Cargo has ordered another 777F

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/newsroom#/p ... 7f-3104819
 
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Revelation
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:53 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Looks like Lufthansa Cargo has ordered another 777F

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/newsroom#/p ... 7f-3104819

Ordered in June and delivered by end of year: pretty quick turn-around...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Looks like Lufthansa Cargo has ordered another 777F

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/newsroom#/p ... 7f-3104819

Ordered in June and delivered by end of year: pretty quick turn-around...


So we are up to 15 total for LH? With 2 ordered this year with delivery this year (per the release)?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:56 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Looks like Lufthansa Cargo has ordered another 777F

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/newsroom#/p ... 7f-3104819

Ordered in June and delivered by end of year: pretty quick turn-around...

So we are up to 15 total for LH? With 2 ordered this year with delivery this year (per the release)?

Pretty amazing, at various low points we heard LH was considering leaving the maindeck freighter business, now they have 15 777F to be in operation soon.

Will this surpass the highest number of MD-11F they operated at one time?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
JibberJim
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:08 pm

Revelation wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Looks like Lufthansa Cargo has ordered another 777F

https://lufthansa-cargo.com/newsroom#/p ... 7f-3104819

Ordered in June and delivered by end of year: pretty quick turn-around...


So this must be one already built, who's not taking it?
 
oldJoe
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ordered in June and delivered by end of year: pretty quick turn-around...

So we are up to 15 total for LH? With 2 ordered this year with delivery this year (per the release)?

Pretty amazing, at various low points we heard LH was considering leaving the maindeck freighter business, now they have 15 777F to be in operation soon.

Will this surpass the highest number of MD-11F they operated at one time?


The highest number of MD-11F was 19
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:47 am

Airbus may lost some A321XLR and A220 order from CSA Czech Airlines.

Airbus lodges claims against Czech Airlines over A321XLR and A220 order

Airbus has lodged claims against Czech Airlines totalling nearly Kc17 billion ($814 million) in regard to payments for seven aircraft which were ordered by the struggling flag-carrier.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/a ... 58.article
https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/05/31/air ... -airlines/
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:49 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Airbus may lost some A321XLR and A220 order from CSA Czech Airlines.

Airbus lodges claims against Czech Airlines over A321XLR and A220 order

Airbus has lodged claims against Czech Airlines totalling nearly Kc17 billion ($814 million) in regard to payments for seven aircraft which were ordered by the struggling flag-carrier.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/a ... 58.article
https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/05/31/air ... -airlines/

Czech airlines is in bancruptcy procedings since Feb-2021; Airbus has just jumped on the train to be part of the bancruptcy procedings and to get out as much as possible.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:28 am

T4thH wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Airbus may lost some A321XLR and A220 order from CSA Czech Airlines.

Airbus lodges claims against Czech Airlines over A321XLR and A220 order

Airbus has lodged claims against Czech Airlines totalling nearly Kc17 billion ($814 million) in regard to payments for seven aircraft which were ordered by the struggling flag-carrier.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/a ... 58.article
https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/05/31/air ... -airlines/

Czech airlines is in bancruptcy procedings since Feb-2021; Airbus has just jumped on the train to be part of the bancruptcy procedings and to get out as much as possible.

Yes indeed. Being part of creditors' line up they may get some money out of the proceedings, just like in AirAsia X's bankruptcy recovery. Both cases will free up delivery slots for other customers who really needs the aircraft.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:46 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Airbus April

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

new orders
Delta: 25x A321neo
Avolon: 14x A320neo
Avolon: 8x A321neo
Private: 1x A319neo

Cancellations:
A320neo: 16x
A321neo: 6x

Net total 2021 so far: -35

Thanks for the figures. Glad to see the light at the end of the tunnel for Airbus with -35 order now. Can't imagine Airbus ending the year with negative order. Was there any year Airbus has had negative order?

I think it likely that Airbus will end the year with few, if any, net orders, and almost certainly less than Boeing. Last year the MAX was the easiest airliner to cancel due to the grounding, and a slew of them were. That situation no longer exists, and so Airbus is actually more vulnerable to cancellations at this point. It all depends on how fast traffic recovers, but I think it likely that all airlines will struggle for a couple more years. And when they are struggling they do not want shiny new expensive planes. Which means both manufacturers will be in for some dry years, and orders will not recover until the airlines are healthy again, which will likely be a couple of years after traffic recovers.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler

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