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chiad
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Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:18 pm

Link to previous year.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412183&start=450

***

Boeing orders for January
Atlas Air: 4 B747-8F

Cancellations
2 B737 MAX
3 B747-8
1 B787-8

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:37 pm

And just so it’s written here on the record in January Airbus logged no orders or cancellations.
 
MoreLegRoomPLS
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:37 pm

Boeing ASC 606 adjustments have increased to 953 (up from 774 in December): 764x B737 variants, 135x B777 variants and 54x B787 variants. That is almost 20% of the Orderbook (in number of planes) that Boeing believes will still be cancelled.

Airbus does not report this on a monthly basis, so we don't have a comparable figure.


Source: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:07 am

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
Boeing ASC 606 adjustments have increased to 953 (up from 774 in December): 764x B737 variants, 135x B777 variants and 54x B787 variants. That is almost 20% of the Orderbook (in number of planes) that Boeing believes will still be cancelled.

Airbus does not report this on a monthly basis, so we don't have a comparable figure.


Source: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

118 is for the 777X
 
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PM
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:51 am

chiad wrote:

Who still had these on order?
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:00 am

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
Boeing ASC 606 adjustments have increased to 953 (up from 774 in December): 764x B737 variants, 135x B777 variants and 54x B787 variants. That is almost 20% of the Orderbook (in number of planes) that Boeing believes will still be cancelled.

Airbus does not report this on a monthly basis, so we don't have a comparable figure.


Source: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


Leeham did an analysis on the order book of Airbus, if I recall correctly the number of orders that could be removed when using ASC 606 was around 500...
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:30 am

PM wrote:
chiad wrote:

Who still had these on order?


That was the AirBridgeCargo order
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:43 am

Someone83 wrote:
PM wrote:
chiad wrote:

Who still had these on order?


That was the AirBridgeCargo order


So 747-8F then not 747-8. There haven’t been any 747-8s in the orderbook since Trump took the last white tails.
 
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PM
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:06 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
PM wrote:
Who still had these on order?


That was the AirBridgeCargo order


So 747-8F then not 747-8. There haven’t been any 747-8s in the orderbook since Trump took the last white tails.

That was why I asked. I wasn't aware of any -8s on order.

My last long haul flight was on a 747-8 (FRA-JNB in March 2020). How long will it be till I get another? :cry:
 
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reidar76
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:54 am

Flightglobal.com reports that Singapore airlines have reached an agreement with Boeing. The result is 14x 787-10 cancelled, and 11x 777-9 ordered. Not a development I would have expected.

The agreement includes a significant deferral. "The delivery stream spread out beyond the immediate five years", according to SIA. Beyond 2025.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 43.article
 
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PM
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:49 am

reidar76 wrote:
Flightglobal.com reports that Singapore airlines have reached an agreement with Boeing. The result is 14x 787-10 cancelled, and 11x 777-9 ordered. Not a development I would have expected.

The agreement includes a significant deferral. "The delivery stream spread out beyond the immediate five years", according to SIA. Beyond 2025.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 43.article

More bad news for RR ... :cry:
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:58 pm

Because the 777X is delayed, moving the 787 order to the 777X backlog allows the airline to postpone pre-delivery payments on the 787 order and save cash. At least for now.
Good moaning!
 
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MrBren
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:33 pm

Airbus in Feb:
11 orders: 1 A332, 10 A320 neo
32 deliveries: 2 A220, 29 A320 Family (2ceo, 27neo), 1 A350

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:10 pm

MrBren wrote:
Airbus in Feb:
11 orders: 1 A332, 10 A320 neo
32 deliveries: 2 A220, 29 A320 Family (2ceo, 27neo), 1 A350

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html


Cancellations:
1 A223 (probably Macquarie again);
59 A320neo and 30 A321neo (Norwegian?); and
2 A359s (these were 2 previously undisclosed).
 
MoreLegRoomPLS
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:07 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Airbus in Feb:
11 orders: 1 A332, 10 A320 neo
32 deliveries: 2 A220, 29 A320 Family (2ceo, 27neo), 1 A350

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html


Cancellations:
1 A223 (probably Macquarie again);
59 A320neo and 30 A321neo (Norwegian?); and
2 A359s (these were 2 previously undisclosed).


Very good guess! These are the February cancelations:
1x A223 = MacQuarie
58x A320N = Norwegian
1x A320N = private customer
30x A321N = Norwegian
2x A359 = undisclosed

On top of that, 4x A338 was disclosed = Garuda Indonesia
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:54 am

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Airbus in Feb:
11 orders: 1 A332, 10 A320 neo
32 deliveries: 2 A220, 29 A320 Family (2ceo, 27neo), 1 A350

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html


Cancellations:
1 A223 (probably Macquarie again);
59 A320neo and 30 A321neo (Norwegian?); and
2 A359s (these were 2 previously undisclosed).


Very good guess! These are the February cancelations:
1x A223 = MacQuarie
58x A320N = Norwegian
1x A320N = private customer
30x A321N = Norwegian
2x A359 = undisclosed

On top of that, 4x A338 was disclosed = Garuda Indonesia


The long awaited Norwegian cancellation hits hard.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lag-output
 
fcogafa
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:08 pm

 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:36 pm

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
On top of that, 4x A338 was disclosed = Garuda Indonesia


As guessed by some. This should enable direct flights from Jakarta to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam for example, maintaining commonality within their larger fleet of A339s used on regional routes.

In time we may see others such as AAX and Cebu doing this, though the longhaul LCC model is not fashionable just now.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:22 pm

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
On top of that, 4x A338 was disclosed = Garuda Indonesia

Can't see a direct reference to this...were the 4x A338s disclosed as cancelled?


JerseyFlyer wrote:
As guessed by some. This should enable direct flights from Jakarta to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam for example, maintaining commonality within their larger fleet of A339s used on regional routes.

If these were firmed up, then I'm gladly surprised and thankful for my humble pie. :footinmouth:

JerseyFlyer wrote:
In time we may see others such as AAX and Cebu doing this, though the longhaul LCC model is not fashionable just now.

The HGW A338 may be a more practical replacement for PR's A359s should a couple or so of the latter be returned to lessors - for nonstop services to LHR, SEA and YVR - finances permitting. :crossfingers:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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caoimhin
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:49 pm

PM wrote:
My last long haul flight was on a 747-8 (FRA-JNB in March 2020). How long will it be till I get another? :cry:


Not the -8i, but my last long haul was upper deck aboard G-CIVX in January 2020. First (and sadly last) time flying the upper deck cabin aboard a BA 747.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:20 pm

Boeing February orders, including a couple surprises.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


BDS USAF Tanker Program: 27x 767-2C
Singapore Airlines: 11x 777X
Unidentified: 14x 737 MAX
Unidentified: 1x 747-8I
Unidentified: 4x 787-10 (RR)
United Airlines: 25x 737 MAX

Full Cancellations:

-32x 737
-19x 787


ASC 606 adjustments

+5x 737
+11x 777

both are positive.

The 747-8I order will most likely be LN1435 which was not delivered to Lufthansa several years ago.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:28 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
ASC 606 adjustments

+5x 737
+11x 777

both are positive.

Does this mean these orders were added to the ASC 606 list, i. e. Boeing believes they might not be delivered, or did the condition of the airline improve enough to let Boeing believe that they'll actually get delivered, thereby removing them from the ASC 606 list?
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:31 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Full Cancellations:

-19x 787

.


14 of these should be the 787-10 from SQ. So who is behind the other 5?
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:32 pm

What I want to know is who ordered 4 787-10s? I assume an existing customer with RR engines? BA? I know they had 6 787-9 options that expired recently
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:32 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Full Cancellations:

-19x 787

.


14 of these should be the 787-10 from SQ. So who is behind the other 5?

Did they have anything with Norwegian maybe?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:36 pm

WestJet canceled 15 MAXs, COPA canceled 7: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN2B120A

Anyone know which variants?
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:41 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
ASC 606 adjustments

+5x 737
+11x 777

both are positive.

Does this mean these orders were added to the ASC 606 list, i. e. Boeing believes they might not be delivered, or did the condition of the airline improve enough to let Boeing believe that they'll actually get delivered, thereby removing them from the ASC 606 list?

There are 2 options here, either they will now be delivered after they were uncertain before, or these are orders that are now fully cancelled.

The 1st option is likely for the 777s. The 2nd option is more likely for the 737s where it might be a combination of the full cancellations being corrected on the ASC 606 list minus new unfilled orders being added to the list. Boeing never reveals which orders are behind the ASC 606 changes, it's basically impossible to keep track of this.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:45 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
ASC 606 adjustments

+5x 737
+11x 777

both are positive.

Does this mean these orders were added to the ASC 606 list, i. e. Boeing believes they might not be delivered, or did the condition of the airline improve enough to let Boeing believe that they'll actually get delivered, thereby removing them from the ASC 606 list?

There are 2 options here, either they will now be delivered after they were uncertain before, or these are orders that are now fully cancelled.

The 1st option is likely for the 777s. The 2nd option is more likely for the 737s where it might be a combination of the full cancellations being corrected on the ASC 606 list minus new unfilled orders being added to the list. Boeing never reveals which orders are behind the ASC 606 changes, it's basically impossible to keep track of this.

Wouldn’t the 11 just be the new SQ orders?

Oh I see what happened now. The unfilled orders went up and the cancellations went down as well. So some 11 Will now be delivered
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:50 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Wouldn’t the 11 just be the new SQ orders?

No, new orders could not have been on these ASC 606 adjustments. The net total for the 777 is now also 22.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:51 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Wouldn’t the 11 just be the new SQ orders?

No, new orders could not have been on these ASC 606 adjustments. The net total for the 777 is now also 22.

got it. Thanks!
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:58 pm

Posting these screenshots after Boeing's February update here, just we can keep a bit of track of all the changes over the year.

Boeing is now has a positive net order total of 34, it's been a while since the last time Boeing was positive with the net orders to date.


Image

Image
 
MoreLegRoomPLS
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:25 pm

Boeing cancellations:
19x B787-10 Singapore Airlines

15x B737 Max Westjet
8x B737 Max Jackson Square
7x B737 Max COPA Airlines
1x B737 Max BOC Aviation
1x B737 Max BBJ
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:38 pm

MoreLegRoomPLS wrote:
Boeing cancellations:
19x B787-10 Singapore Airlines

15x B737 Max Westjet
8x B737 Max Jackson Square
7x B737 Max COPA Airlines
1x B737 Max BOC Aviation
1x B737 Max BBJ


Singapore only announced 14x 787-10 order cancelations, was this increased to 19?

Edit: looks like it is 19! Singapore went to just 10 remaining.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:15 pm

Just noticed that every aircraft family got a sale this month! Nice

Boeing sales is working overtime
 
2175301
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:23 pm

The news has picked up that Boeing has started to move in the positive direction again - and now has more new orders in 2021 than cancellations.

Boeing seeing rise in orders for airplanes, could indicate travel rebound amid pandemic

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 923413002/
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 am

2175301 wrote:
The news has picked up that Boeing has started to move in the positive direction again - and now has more new orders in 2021 than cancellations.


... which might be gone again by end of March.

CDB Aviation has cancelled 20 737Max:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/lessor-cdb-aviation-cancels-20-737-max-orders/143082.article

China Aircrafr Leasing has cancelled 26 737 Max:

https://simpleflying.com/calc-boeing-737-max-orders-cut/

Clearly remains a volatile market. And - from my point of view - cements the impression of lessors having overordered.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:18 am

Flying-Tiger wrote:
2175301 wrote:
The news has picked up that Boeing has started to move in the positive direction again - and now has more new orders in 2021 than cancellations.


... which might be gone again by end of March.

CDB Aviation has cancelled 20 737Max:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/lessor-cdb-aviation-cancels-20-737-max-orders/143082.article

China Aircrafr Leasing has cancelled 26 737 Max:

https://simpleflying.com/calc-boeing-737-max-orders-cut/

Clearly remains a volatile market. And - from my point of view - cements the impression of lessors having overordered.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130843

At might return in April
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:27 pm

With the 100 MAX from Southwest and the 24 MAX from 777 Partners earlier this month it will take more cancellations to go back into negative numbers for this month.

It's also likely that many of the full cancellations that will be announced this year are already in the minus as ASC 606 changes. If this is the case the net effect of these cancellations on the order totals is 0.

We'll will know in 2 weeks when Boeing releases the March numbers.


For reference as this wasn't posted here before the 777 Partners order press release from Boeing.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130836
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:52 am

1 more for March after the commitment was first announced in December.


Boeing and Alaska Airlines Finalize Order for 23 737-9 MAX Jets

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-relea ... tem=130844
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:58 pm

Airbus March orders are out

+20 A223 undisclosed
+ 4 A320neo Avolon
-5 A320neo
-3 A321neo
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:07 pm

Polot wrote:
Airbus March orders are out

+20 A223 undisclosed
+ 4 A320neo Avolon
-5 A320neo
-3 A321neo


You missed another 4 A321neo to Avolon ;)
 
chiad
Topic Author
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:10 pm

Polot wrote:
Airbus March orders are out

+20 A223 undisclosed
+ 4 A320neo Avolon
-5 A320neo
-3 A321neo


Who could have ordered 20 A220-300? Anyone?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:14 pm

chiad wrote:
Polot wrote:
Airbus March orders are out

+20 A223 undisclosed
+ 4 A320neo Avolon
-5 A320neo
-3 A321neo


Who could have ordered 20 A220-300? Anyone?


Southwest Airlines :stirthepot:

But seriously, I believe there’s a few candidates mentioned in the A220 Sales Thread.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:18 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Southwest Airlines :stirthepot:

But seriously, I believe there’s a few candidates mentioned in the A220 Sales Thread.


Here is a link:

Airbus A220 Sales Campaign Thread - 2021

Please continue your discussion on this specific topic there.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:38 am

I’m expecting orders for March end could be about 150 or so
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:18 pm

Boeing’s orders for March closes at 196. 777 backlog increases as orders are reinstated.
 
Opus99
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:23 pm

We should also note Turkish airlines has pretty much pulled out of the MAX. Cancelling 50
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:35 pm

Orders are:

+24 737Max for 777 Partners (to Flair Airlines and others)
+32 737Max for AS
+ 2 P-8s for Australia
+ 9 P-8s for US
+1 737Max BBJ
+100 WN 737Max
+ 3 737Max UFO
+25 UA 737Max????

United also ordered 25 Maxes in February. Not yet convinced the March entry is not a mistake but I guess we will find out soon.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:35 pm

This should be the new orders:

777 Partners (for Flair): 24 737 (-8)
Alaska Airlines: 32 737 (-9)
Australia: 2 737-800A/P-8
USA: 9 737-800A/P-8
Boeing Business Jet: 1 737
Southwest Airlines: 100 737 (AFAIK all -7)
Unidentified: 3 737
United Airlines: 25 737 (AFAIK -9)

And then add/subtract any conversions, cancellations or ASC606 reversals
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2021 orders

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:49 pm

There were 156 cancellations btw, all 737 Maxes.

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