Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
x1234
Topic Author
Posts: 1137
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:34 pm

Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.
 
User avatar
gregn21
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:59 pm

I am totally unaware of when the concourse will actually open for operations, but it does certainly appear to be close to completion, so I wouldn’t fear any serious delays going forward. The demand just isn’t quite there right now for such an expansion in gates with the current situation.
 
SFOHORIZON
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:09 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:17 am

It would be worthwhile to understand the current gate shuffle between airlines with all of the new construction happening at LAX. I imagine understanding who is getting what is a lot harder now with so many airlines reconsidering plans during the pandemic. Anyone have any good insight into who is getting gates at LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse and other current/future construction projects?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:35 am

There's no external construction equipment there anymore, and it's had its jetbridges added and interior has been well-lit for months.
Pretty sure the markings have been applied. Airlines have been RON parking there since around Christmas.

No idea what the interior is like; and (of course) the invitation for public trials has gone quiet.
 
hl8208
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:10 am

Judging from interior photos I've seen on a certain Instagram user's stories, it's been pretty much complete for a few months now. For obvious reasons, certain amenities/concessions that were envisioned in renderings appear to have been omitted for now, the major one being the bar in the central terminal area. My father is working on the LAX upgrades, and based on his observations (e.g. TBIT being a ghost town,) the extra capacity is absolutely not needed at the moment.
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 am

There is a management update scheduled for the LAWA Board meeting on the 18th.

Didn't Air France recently have their lease approved for club space at MSC right before COVID? <found it.. Approved by LAWA board 6 MAR 2020, a 10 year lease with Air France>
 
aaway
Posts: 1511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:19 am

x1234 wrote:
Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.


Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:43 am

aaway wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.


Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.


They are probably trying to fit their planes into the gates at the MSC. On the TBIT side, it looks like some new signage for the MSC is already up. They have also reopened Gates 131 and 132 several months ago. When will Gate 134 reopen? I know that gate closed several months ago due to MSC work. Do you think the work being done to 134 will impact the MSC opening?

Finally if they are purposefully delaying the MSC due to the pandemic, why did the concourse at SLC (Salt Lake City) open up?
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:27 am

rjbesikof wrote:
aaway wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.


Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.


They are probably trying to fit their planes into the gates at the MSC. On the TBIT side, it looks like some new signage for the MSC is already up. They have also reopened Gates 131 and 132 several months ago. When will Gate 134 reopen? I know that gate closed several months ago due to MSC work. Do you think the work being done to 134 will impact the MSC opening?

Finally if they are purposefully delaying the MSC due to the pandemic, why did the concourse at SLC (Salt Lake City) open up?


Because the concourse at SLC is primarily designed for domestic operations as well as it will allows them to tear down the old terminal/concourse area while operations are limited. Saving I believe around 300+ million cost on finishing replacing it all. LAX the MSC is primarily for International use & the other terminal upgrades other than delta are finished. The new T0 for WN & new T9 for United do not affect other operations (except small Envoy terminal) as they are being built in new locations. With the lower flight levels all of envoy could operate at T4/5.
 
Bradin
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:42 am

On December 7, 2020, they were fitting aircraft. There was a pair of AA aircraft being used.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12102
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:59 am

rbavfan wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
aaway wrote:

Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.


They are probably trying to fit their planes into the gates at the MSC. On the TBIT side, it looks like some new signage for the MSC is already up. They have also reopened Gates 131 and 132 several months ago. When will Gate 134 reopen? I know that gate closed several months ago due to MSC work. Do you think the work being done to 134 will impact the MSC opening?

Finally if they are purposefully delaying the MSC due to the pandemic, why did the concourse at SLC (Salt Lake City) open up?


Because the concourse at SLC is primarily designed for domestic operations as well as it will allows them to tear down the old terminal/concourse area while operations are limited. Saving I believe around 300+ million cost on finishing replacing it all. LAX the MSC is primarily for International use & the other terminal upgrades other than delta are finished. The new T0 for WN & new T9 for United do not affect other operations (except small Envoy terminal) as they are being built in new locations. With the lower flight levels all of envoy could operate at T4/5.

The put it more plainly: new SLC terminal is replacement of old facilities. LAX MSC is expansion.
 
socalatc
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:16 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:56 pm

American is only parking RON aircraft at MSC. There are no cargo operations allowed on the gates. They lost the ability to park aircraft inside the hangar because the lack of a fire suppression system. The deluge tank for the system had to be removed for the new taxiway P project. All aircraft parking at MSC has been parking only. The building has reached substantial completion, but due to demand, opening and use has not been finalized. It is very nice Inside, and has great views

aaway wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.


Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22721
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:27 pm

Bradin wrote:
On December 7, 2020, they were fitting aircraft. There was a pair of AA aircraft being used.

Thank you that is interesting.

Personally, if they slowed the interior work to slow the cash burn, I wouldn't be surprised. The gates won't be needed for 2 years (my best guess).

Sigh, my dream of a To and UA's new T6 will have to be put on hold. :cry2:

Lightsaber
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1270
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:56 pm

I'm sorry that I missed it, but what does the acronym "MSC" stand for? Midfield Super-important Concourse?
 
SwissCanuck
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:06 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:13 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I'm sorry that I missed it, but what does the acronym "MSC" stand for? Midfield Super-important Concourse?


Satellite I believe :)
 
Bradin
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 am

socalatc wrote:
American is only parking RON aircraft at MSC. There are no cargo operations allowed on the gates. They lost the ability to park aircraft inside the hangar because the lack of a fire suppression system. The deluge tank for the system had to be removed for the new taxiway P project. All aircraft parking at MSC has been parking only. The building has reached substantial completion, but due to demand, opening and use has not been finalized. It is very nice Inside, and has great views

aaway wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Is the LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse still on track with COVID? I hope they don't delay it like NYC. LAX definetly neeeds more international wide-body gates when it rebounds post-COVID after vaccinations.


Seeing limited use. American is offloading all-cargo flights at MSC gates. Have observed occasional int'l widebody activity - typically flights/operators with long turns. Such flights appear to offload at MSC, then tow up to TBIT-West gates for departure. Also, have observed the occasional domestic (AA, AS, B6) operators gating narrowbodies at MSC, but am unsure as to the nature of their activity.


It appears that multiple airlines are using the MSC to park aircraft rather than the remote gates. China Southern has been parking their A380 overnight as well.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:58 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
I'm sorry that I missed it, but what does the acronym "MSC" stand for? Midfield Super-important Concourse?

Midfield Satellite Concourse.
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:53 am

Here is the presentation from the LAWA Meeting on 18 FEB.
https://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.ph ... a_id=48596

Substantial completion achieved. Looks like opening operation start late April/Early May.

Have not yet listened to the presentation to see if there was any Q&A.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:18 am

carljanderson wrote:
Here is the presentation from the LAWA Meeting on 18 FEB.
https://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.ph ... a_id=48596

Substantial completion achieved. Looks like opening operation start late April/Early May.

Have not yet listened to the presentation to see if there was any Q&A.


Looks very nice on the inside. What airlines will be using the MSC or will it be like TBIT (common use). Also will AA/DL/UA transfer their TBIT ops to MSC?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:03 pm

Polot wrote:
The put it more plainly: new SLC terminal is replacement of old facilities. LAX MSC is expansion.

Technically it's a little bit of both. They used to have bus gates over there.
 
teriyaki
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:11 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:14 pm

Do we have an idea of what will be going in on the 2nd and 3rd level of the Atrium? Presuming those should be some lounges?
Looks a bit narrow for a brand new concourse, but could open a bit up when the hoarding comes down to make way for the shops.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:26 pm

teriyaki wrote:
Do we have an idea of what will be going in on the 2nd and 3rd level of the Atrium? Presuming those should be some lounges?

Yeah, AF is building their lounge at the MSC, there may be others as well.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 960
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:31 pm

I would like to ask what would happen to the areas south of gate 225. Is there any plan for the concourse to build the south portion after 225 or it is going to be a shortened version?
 
atlflyer
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:46 am

There was a proposal for a temporary extension before Covid that would serve domestic flights to provide relief for carriers while other terminals/concourses are modernized. But I’m not sure if that proposal is continuing. Seems they’d be better off building out the original plan now since traffic is no longer an issue.
 
atlflyer
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:31 am

https://thepointsguy.com/news/lax-has-a ... concourse/

This article describes the rationale behind a temporary concourse. Really doesn’t seem needed now.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5700
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:22 am

atlflyer wrote:
There was a proposal for a temporary extension before Covid that would serve domestic flights to provide relief for carriers while other terminals/concourses are modernized. But I’m not sure if that proposal is continuing. Seems they’d be better off building out the original plan now since traffic is no longer an issue.

Isn’t the major issue with the long-term extension of the MSC southwards the presence of the American Airlines high-bay hangar? Is there even a time frame for that to be relocated or vacated?

V/F
 
Happytycho
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:26 am

My understanding is that the "temporary" MSC South was intended as a replacement for the Eagles Nest to clear space for terminal 9, so the future of MSC South probably depends on whether T9 is still happening anytime soon.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 960
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:53 am

Happytycho wrote:
My understanding is that the "temporary" MSC South was intended as a replacement for the Eagles Nest to clear space for terminal 9, so the future of MSC South probably depends on whether T9 is still happening anytime soon.


Thanks. I thought terminal 9 is for the LAX Olympics. So I would say the chance of T9 happening is high. But T0 is somewhat unsure. Personal observation of course.

If LAX is going to build a Eagle Nest in MSC South, wouldn't that be very odd to have two different styles joining in one building? I would thought it is more appealing to convert the part of building most close to check-in areas in T4 or T5 into eagle's nest and AA mainline takes over part of the TBIT South concourse would be much better arrangement (while some of the international carrier moves to MSC North/South)?
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:24 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Happytycho wrote:
My understanding is that the "temporary" MSC South was intended as a replacement for the Eagles Nest to clear space for terminal 9, so the future of MSC South probably depends on whether T9 is still happening anytime soon.


Thanks. I thought terminal 9 is for the LAX Olympics. So I would say the chance of T9 happening is high. But T0 is somewhat unsure. Personal observation of course.

If LAX is going to build a Eagle Nest in MSC South, wouldn't that be very odd to have two different styles joining in one building? I would thought it is more appealing to convert the part of building most close to check-in areas in T4 or T5 into eagle's nest and AA mainline takes over part of the TBIT South concourse would be much better arrangement (while some of the international carrier moves to MSC North/South)?


T9 is/was for a future Star Alliance terminal and additional space for UA to spill over into. T0 likely going to WN as it is only an extension of T1 with no curbside access.

I believe the plan was for Eagle/AA to take over the rest of T5, but LAWA got pushback, specifically from HA to be forced out to MSC so I’m not sure what came of those discussions. B6 establishing their hub there also adds more to the situation, but I’m guessing LAWA made some sort of agreement with them in exchange for more gates. That would be a really long walk from T4/T5 to MSC to get to Eagle flights.

And yes, I believe AA has preferential access to some of those gates on TBIT closest to T4 as long as certain thresholds are met.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:32 pm

airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
The put it more plainly: new SLC terminal is replacement of old facilities. LAX MSC is expansion.

Technically it's a little bit of both. They used to have bus gates over there.

Those are still there. MSC isn't anywhere near them, in fact.

They're serving a useful purpose right now though:
with the pandemic-induced drop in traffic, airlines generally aren't using them for pax; however, they're quite useful for loading passenger-aircraft that are being used as freighters, because packages can be trucked over, walked up the ramp straight to the jetbridge... and thus easily loaded without having to weave packages through throngs of people in the main terminals.
 
Happytycho
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:59 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Happytycho wrote:
My understanding is that the "temporary" MSC South was intended as a replacement for the Eagles Nest to clear space for terminal 9, so the future of MSC South probably depends on whether T9 is still happening anytime soon.


Thanks. I thought terminal 9 is for the LAX Olympics. So I would say the chance of T9 happening is high. But T0 is somewhat unsure. Personal observation of course.

If LAX is going to build a Eagle Nest in MSC South, wouldn't that be very odd to have two different styles joining in one building? I would thought it is more appealing to convert the part of building most close to check-in areas in T4 or T5 into eagle's nest and AA mainline takes over part of the TBIT South concourse would be much better arrangement (while some of the international carrier moves to MSC North/South)?


T9 is/was for a future Star Alliance terminal and additional space for UA to spill over into. T0 likely going to WN as it is only an extension of T1 with no curbside access.

I believe the plan was for Eagle/AA to take over the rest of T5, but LAWA got pushback, specifically from HA to be forced out to MSC so I’m not sure what came of those discussions. B6 establishing their hub there also adds more to the situation, but I’m guessing LAWA made some sort of agreement with them in exchange for more gates. That would be a really long walk from T4/T5 to MSC to get to Eagle flights.

And yes, I believe AA has preferential access to some of those gates on TBIT closest to T4 as long as certain thresholds are met.


It doesn't have to be a walk. They can run buses from T5 to the MSC hub leaving only a short walk into the southern portion.

Given that MSC North was intended to replace remote gates, T9 requires some form of MSC South regardless of whether it's Eagle or T5 airlines getting displaced to it. As you stated, some T5 airlines objected to being moved to MSC because they would be forced into less convenient facilities so that AA could have better ones. However, AA can't make that objection because they already bus people to a remote concourse and MSC South is actually an improvement over the Eagles Nest for AA because the gates will fit 737 and 321 aircraft rather than just regional jets and it has a more central location on the airfield.

It's also not clear that there are enough T5 gates to give AA as an Eagles Nest replacement. I believe that AA was planning significant work on the T4 concourse, which would have already required them to temporarily borrow some gates on T5 with other airlines (NK?) moving to MSC North. Then when gates get reallocated after T9 opens, AA's lease entitles them to 5 additional gates in T5. So there wouldn't be 8 additional gates in T5 to give as the Eagles Nest replacement because some of the gates are already committed to AA in other ways.

Considering that AA's hanger is what's blocking a proper extension of the MSC, it does feel slightly poetic for AA get stuck using the lesser "temporary" MSC South concourse.
 
aaway
Posts: 1511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:35 am

DTWLAX wrote:
teriyaki wrote:
Do we have an idea of what will be going in on the 2nd and 3rd level of the Atrium? Presuming those should be some lounges?

Yeah, AF is building their lounge at the MSC, there may be others as well.


Yes, the interior core of these levels were designated concessions and lounge space. In addition to AF, the only other lounge commitment to date that I'm aware of is the proposal to build a common-use airline lounge.

atlflyer wrote:
There was a proposal for a temporary extension before Covid that would serve domestic flights to provide relief for carriers while other terminals/concourses are modernized. But I’m not sure if that proposal is continuing. Seems they’d be better off building out the original plan now since traffic is no longer an issue.


To my knowledge, the temporary south extension is not officially in abeyance. The design portion was awarded in mid 2019 to Woods Bagot (designer of JFK T-4 and the terminal at PER).

VirginFlyer wrote:
Isn’t the major issue with the long-term extension of the MSC southwards the presence of the American Airlines high-bay hangar? Is there even a time frame for that to be relocated or vacated?
V/F


IIRC (I don't have the lease info at my immediate avail), AA's lease expires in 2024. My speculation (emphasis: mine) is that AA will take over the former CO hangars. A firmer plan will develop once UA has completed building the its new hangar.

ericm2031 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Happytycho wrote:
My understanding is that the "temporary" MSC South was intended as a replacement for the Eagles Nest to clear space for terminal 9, so the future of MSC South probably depends on whether T9 is still happening anytime soon.


Thanks. I thought terminal 9 is for the LAX Olympics. So I would say the chance of T9 happening is high. But T0 is somewhat unsure. Personal observation of course.

If LAX is going to build a Eagle Nest in MSC South, wouldn't that be very odd to have two different styles joining in one building? I would thought it is more appealing to convert the part of building most close to check-in areas in T4 or T5 into eagle's nest and AA mainline takes over part of the TBIT South concourse would be much better arrangement (while some of the international carrier moves to MSC North/South)?


T9 is/was for a future Star Alliance terminal and additional space for UA to spill over into. T0 likely going to WN as it is only an extension of T1 with no curbside access.

I believe the plan was for Eagle/AA to take over the rest of T5, but LAWA got pushback, specifically from HA to be forced out to MSC so I’m not sure what came of those discussions. B6 establishing their hub there also adds more to the situation, but I’m guessing LAWA made some sort of agreement with them in exchange for more gates. That would be a really long walk from T4/T5 to MSC to get to Eagle flights.

And yes, I believe AA has preferential access to some of those gates on TBIT closest to T4 as long as certain thresholds are met.


Correct on T0 - No landside processing - slated for WN. EIR for project is in public comments phase.
Correct on T9 - UA/Star Alliance - EIR for project is currently in public comments phase. (Both T0 and T9, as well as other airfield projects are included in same planning document).

What may determine the timeline in getting T9 built will be how quickly UA is able to tap bond / debt markets post-pandemic. It has been LAWA modus operandi for close to a decade now to let the carriers fund/build/manage their individual projects. LAWA then buys the improvements from the respective carriers. LAWA has itself been tapping the bond market to either refinance old debt, or deriving proceeds to pay for projects or purchase various airline improvements.

An operational T9 will also be critical for the potential full-build out of MSC South. The original environmental scoping for the MSC envisioned a maximum roadway throughput (or level of service) in order to accommodate additional traffic generated by a full component MSC operation. To my knowledge, unless there is an approval to relax/revise that proviso, the full MSC South cannot be built until T9 is in place to divert traffic. There are projections - depending on initial scale/scope, projected scale, and airline mix - for the traffic diversion potential of T9.

A note regarding AA/Eagle at T5: There "may" be an "ultimate plan" for AA to receive all of T5. However, as of now, the plan is for AA to have a maximum of 10 gates in T5. The outcome of the LAWA-HA litigation will be the precursor to further relocations & changes to what is currently codified by lease agreement.

Happytycho wrote:
It doesn't have to be a walk. They can run buses from T5 to the MSC hub leaving only a short walk into the southern portion.


There is/will be a bus gate at T4, T5 & T6 for inter-terminal connections via the airfield.
 
Bradin
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:21 am

aaway wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
teriyaki wrote:
Do we have an idea of what will be going in on the 2nd and 3rd level of the Atrium? Presuming those should be some lounges?

Yeah, AF is building their lounge at the MSC, there may be others as well.


Yes, the interior core of these levels were designated concessions and lounge space. In addition to AF, the only other lounge commitment to date that I'm aware of is the proposal to build a common-use airline lounge.

atlflyer wrote:
There was a proposal for a temporary extension before Covid that would serve domestic flights to provide relief for carriers while other terminals/concourses are modernized. But I’m not sure if that proposal is continuing. Seems they’d be better off building out the original plan now since traffic is no longer an issue.


To my knowledge, the temporary south extension is not officially in abeyance. The design portion was awarded in mid 2019 to Woods Bagot (designer of JFK T-4 and the terminal at PER).

VirginFlyer wrote:
Isn’t the major issue with the long-term extension of the MSC southwards the presence of the American Airlines high-bay hangar? Is there even a time frame for that to be relocated or vacated?
V/F


IIRC (I don't have the lease info at my immediate avail), AA's lease expires in 2024. My speculation (emphasis: mine) is that AA will take over the former CO hangars. A firmer plan will develop once UA has completed building the its new hangar.

ericm2031 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Thanks. I thought terminal 9 is for the LAX Olympics. So I would say the chance of T9 happening is high. But T0 is somewhat unsure. Personal observation of course.

If LAX is going to build a Eagle Nest in MSC South, wouldn't that be very odd to have two different styles joining in one building? I would thought it is more appealing to convert the part of building most close to check-in areas in T4 or T5 into eagle's nest and AA mainline takes over part of the TBIT South concourse would be much better arrangement (while some of the international carrier moves to MSC North/South)?


T9 is/was for a future Star Alliance terminal and additional space for UA to spill over into. T0 likely going to WN as it is only an extension of T1 with no curbside access.

I believe the plan was for Eagle/AA to take over the rest of T5, but LAWA got pushback, specifically from HA to be forced out to MSC so I’m not sure what came of those discussions. B6 establishing their hub there also adds more to the situation, but I’m guessing LAWA made some sort of agreement with them in exchange for more gates. That would be a really long walk from T4/T5 to MSC to get to Eagle flights.

And yes, I believe AA has preferential access to some of those gates on TBIT closest to T4 as long as certain thresholds are met.


Correct on T0 - No landside processing - slated for WN. EIR for project is in public comments phase.
Correct on T9 - UA/Star Alliance - EIR for project is currently in public comments phase. (Both T0 and T9, as well as other airfield projects are included in same planning document).

What may determine the timeline in getting T9 built will be how quickly UA is able to tap bond / debt markets post-pandemic. It has been LAWA modus operandi for close to a decade now to let the carriers fund/build/manage their individual projects. LAWA then buys the improvements from the respective carriers. LAWA has itself been tapping the bond market to either refinance old debt, or deriving proceeds to pay for projects or purchase various airline improvements.

An operational T9 will also be critical for the potential full-build out of MSC South. The original environmental scoping for the MSC envisioned a maximum roadway throughput (or level of service) in order to accommodate additional traffic generated by a full component MSC operation. To my knowledge, unless there is an approval to relax/revise that proviso, the full MSC South cannot be built until T9 is in place to divert traffic. There are projections - depending on initial scale/scope, projected scale, and airline mix - for the traffic diversion potential of T9.

A note regarding AA/Eagle at T5: There "may" be an "ultimate plan" for AA to receive all of T5. However, as of now, the plan is for AA to have a maximum of 10 gates in T5. The outcome of the LAWA-HA litigation will be the precursor to further relocations & changes to what is currently codified by lease agreement.

Happytycho wrote:
It doesn't have to be a walk. They can run buses from T5 to the MSC hub leaving only a short walk into the southern portion.


There is/will be a bus gate at T4, T5 & T6 for inter-terminal connections via the airfield.


Has any of the above milestones/goals been influenced by COVID-19?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10434
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:40 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
The put it more plainly: new SLC terminal is replacement of old facilities. LAX MSC is expansion.

Technically it's a little bit of both. They used to have bus gates over there.

Those are still there. MSC isn't anywhere near them, in fact.

Oh wow, for some reason I thought the area where MSC is located used to have these too. Haven't been there in so long my memory is fuzzy. Or it's just my old age :D
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:27 pm

Under budget - impressive.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:19 pm

aaway wrote:
The outcome of the LAWA-HA litigation will be the precursor to further relocations & changes to what is currently codified by lease agreement.


Has this yet to be resolved? The MSC move for the slated carriers is impending isn't it? Did MSC ever have any design changes to accommodate domestic arrivals? That was HAL's biggest gripe AFAIK.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2633
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:34 am

So is the MSC intended to be primarily used for domestic or international flights?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12102
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:43 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
So is the MSC intended to be primarily used for domestic or international flights?

International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.
 
aaway
Posts: 1511
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:21 am

azjubilee wrote:
aaway wrote:
The outcome of the LAWA-HA litigation will be the precursor to further relocations & changes to what is currently codified by lease agreement.


Has this yet to be resolved? The MSC move for the slated carriers is impending isn't it? Did MSC ever have any design changes to accommodate domestic arrivals? That was HAL's biggest gripe AFAIK.


Hat tip to you, sir. I hadn't followed this closely beyond the initial rash of information when first publicized. So yes, issue has been resolved - no case pending. The domestic baggage carousel in question is close to completion in Section A of the arrivals area at TBIT. Somehow, didn't relate that project to the LAWA - HA resolution. Also, narrowbody gates were added to the original complement of MSC gates.

Bradin wrote:
Has any of the above milestones/goals been influenced by COVID-19?


The concessions program has been impacted and will not be as robust when the MSC formally opens. The construction timeline for the MSC stinger has been pushed back - to my knowledge, new timeline has not been established. Public comments period for the T0/T9/airfield improvements was extended, but immaterial to overall vetting process for EIR.

Project review and (likely) approval should proceed in timely fashion. Beyond that point, it will be a matter of the funding mechanisms UA chooses to pursue. I don't have info on that.
 
mcogator
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:35 am

lightsaber wrote:
Bradin wrote:
On December 7, 2020, they were fitting aircraft. There was a pair of AA aircraft being used.


Personally, if they slowed the interior work to slow the cash burn, I wouldn't be surprised. The gates won't be needed for 2 years (my best guess).


Lightsaber

Not so sure with DL reconstructing T3. I was bused in on my flight from SFO on Saturday, and my flight to MCO this morning left from TBIT, as it has been doing recently. Except this time DL has now set up ropes and are queueing pax upstairs before they can join the queue downstairs. Delta will run out of room quite soon. I'm not sure how many gates they have access to at TBIT.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:29 am

Polot wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
So is the MSC intended to be primarily used for domestic or international flights?

International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.


I thought cats & dogs(F9/HA/SY/NK/G4) are going to move into MSC so that AA/AS/B6 can take over entire T4/5/6 plus south side of TBIT?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12102
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:40 am

SEAflyer97 wrote:
Polot wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
So is the MSC intended to be primarily used for domestic or international flights?

International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.


I thought cats & dogs(F9/HA/SY/NK/G4) are going to move into MSC so that AA/AS/B6 can take over entire T4/5/6 plus south side of TBIT?

That may be the case (I do not keep up with LAX terminal/gate assignments) but the MSC was always envisioned primarily for international use and to lessen the need for the remote bus gates.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3737
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:15 pm

aaway wrote:
Hat tip to you, sir. I hadn't followed this closely beyond the initial rash of information when first publicized. So yes, issue has been resolved - no case pending. The domestic baggage carousel in question is close to completion in Section A of the arrivals area at TBIT. Somehow, didn't relate that project to the LAWA - HA resolution. Also, narrowbody gates were added to the original complement of MSC gates.


Thanks for the update. It's still a long trek and far from the B6 codeshares, but I suppose it's better than the original ridiculous plan. Glad to see it falling into place.
 
Bradin
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:51 am

Polot wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
Polot wrote:
International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.


I thought cats & dogs(F9/HA/SY/NK/G4) are going to move into MSC so that AA/AS/B6 can take over entire T4/5/6 plus south side of TBIT?

That may be the case (I do not keep up with LAX terminal/gate assignments) but the MSC was always envisioned primarily for international use and to lessen the need for the remote bus gates.


It is my understanding that the MSC was also intended to be interim gates as various Terminals are rebuild and/or refreshed (Eg. T2, T3, T4, T5, T6)
 
NickLAX
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:53 am

Last LAWA board meeting on the 18th had this update (PDF/Presentation)

https://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.ph ... a_id=48596

Essentially done with issue being COVID-19 demand and concession build out being later than planned due to this.

In prior board meeting questions, the intention for MSC is always to be longhaul/intl departure gates, but with work on other terminals some carriers may be displaced into MSC while other work is ongoing (T6/T5, etc)
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:37 am

How is the pax tunnel going to work? Is it going to be a people mover or a travelator?

Otherwise, the MSC is looking real good, they took a page out of the TBIT book, high ceilings, huge windows. Great stuff.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:43 am

airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
The put it more plainly: new SLC terminal is replacement of old facilities. LAX MSC is expansion.

Technically it's a little bit of both. They used to have bus gates over there.


Those bus gates were and still are on the west side of the airport property between the north runway and World Way west. Qantas maintenance facility on south side of World Way West. The area is also used for RON.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:46 am

Polot wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
So is the MSC intended to be primarily used for domestic or international flights?

International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.


Look at the two. It was not built in the same style other than having gates attached to a buildings !
 
Bradin
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:31 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
How is the pax tunnel going to work? Is it going to be a people mover or a travelator?

Otherwise, the MSC is looking real good, they took a page out of the TBIT book, high ceilings, huge windows. Great stuff.


Per: https://www.discoverlosangeles.com/busi ... rse-at-lax

"Part of the airport's multi-billion dollar modernization program, the MSC will be constructed west of TBIT and will be accessed either by bus or by a 1,000-foot pedestrian tunnel from TBIT. The tunnel will originate at a new gateway facility connected to TBIT near Gate 148, and will have moving walkways to move passengers through the tunnel."
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 947
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: Status of LAX TBIT Midfield Concourse

Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:21 am

Polot wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
Polot wrote:
International flights. It’s a satellite concourse for TBIT built in the same style.


I thought cats & dogs(F9/HA/SY/NK/G4) are going to move into MSC so that AA/AS/B6 can take over entire T4/5/6 plus south side of TBIT?

That may be the case (I do not keep up with LAX terminal/gate assignments) but the MSC was always envisioned primarily for international use and to lessen the need for the remote bus gates.

Is AA really THAT big to need the space of 3 Terminals (T456) + overflow onto TBIT south? I've always thougth this whole plan was to group large tennants+alliances around the four corners to ease up things. Delta up left, Southwest up right, American down left and United down right.
This would also minimize the number of FIS facilities arround which is always a better use of scarce resources.
This plan just leaves the "unalligned" somewhere in the middle ot the south complex. If these domestic carriers do not fly international to LAX, there is no point of being at a terminal envisioned only for international flights...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos