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x1234
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Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:27 pm

So the US3 have avoided layovers in PVG but still serve this important market via ICN with the crew double laying over there. I believe UA/DL believed the Chinese government and at one point had their crews laying over in PVG but there were complaints about water quality, clealiness of the hotel and the food. Are Chinese policies going to change or will we still have this loop via ICN?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:00 pm

What policy change? Forget about it. They would be lucky if they were not forced into a 14-day isolation as soon as they hit China and got off the plane (instead they could turn in a day or two)

All Chinese carriers have had their crews into 14-day quarantine every time they came back from an international destination, even though they always double crew the flights and with almost no hotel stays overseas (MF used to have a SYD night stop later last year but apparently this has been eliminated)

Michael
 
HJM
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:31 pm

AC YVR-PVG flight also operates with a crew-change stop in ICN.
 
Fuling
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:59 pm

AA is doing the same via NRT.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:15 am

Fuling wrote:
AA is doing the same via NRT.


I believe AA is flying LAX-ICN-PVG-LAX for example
 
Flanker7
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:57 pm

KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.
 
Talasartir
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:24 pm

SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:54 am

Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


That’s the case in most of East Asia and Australia. In SYD they actually call it the “police hotel” because that is what it is to include full police escort from the airplane to your hotel room. This includes being read your lack of rights. Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks.

As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.
 
bigb
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:36 am

Atlas are laying crews over in ICN and doing turns to China/Hong Kong out of ICN.
 
jreeves96
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:07 am

bigb wrote:
Atlas are laying crews over in ICN and doing turns to China/Hong Kong out of ICN.


Beat me to it. We're keeping ICN busy.

Did some flights to CGO, PVG, and SZX since Covid has started and all flights originated in ICN.
 
LTEN11
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:11 am

flyPIT wrote:
Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


That’s the case in most of East Asia and Australia. In SYD they actually call it the “police hotel” because that is what it is to include full police escort from the airplane to your hotel room. This includes being read your lack of rights. Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks.

As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.


The lack of masks and most things being open in SYD is because Australia has been doing the 2 week hotel quarantine for nearly a year. Just about every current case in Australia is either a returned traveler in hotel quarantine, or is linked to staff at one of the hotels catching it from a returned traveler. There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions. So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.
 
a350lover
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:12 am

Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


Same pattern for IB crews. They operate charter flights weekly both to HGN and PVG one weekly, and crews stay there.
 
c3000flyboy
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:13 am

"Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks."

Pure insanity that you don't see those that are traveling into their country could be posing a threat to the health. As a flight attendant, I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:38 am

LTEN11 wrote:
There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions.

You are talking about the South American crew that went to the beach?

LTEN11 wrote:
So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.

If you read what I wrote, it is not the idea of being quarantined that I have issue with. It is the treatment throughout. A police hotel? Full police escort from the plane? Being told when you can eat? Really? How stupid. Just a bunch of insulting theatrics.

When this first began in SYD we were confined to our room, but at least it was our usual downtown hotel, a nice room, we could eat when we wanted, etc. Why is that not good enough?



c3000flyboy wrote:
I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.

If you feel you are a threat then you should not be working.
 
blandy62
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:53 am

Flanker7 wrote:
KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.


I understand KLM does it also BKK on the AMS-BKK-HKG-BKK-HKG run
 
blandy62
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:56 am

Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


Not fun for the crews but it is a decent compromise.
 
jjbiv
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:04 am

flyPIT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions.

You are talking about the South American crew that went to the beach?

LTEN11 wrote:
So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.

If you read what I wrote, it is not the idea of being quarantined that I have issue with. It is the treatment throughout. A police hotel? Full police escort from the plane? Being told when you can eat? Really? How stupid. Just a bunch of insulting theatrics.

When this first began in SYD we were confined to our room, but at least it was our usual downtown hotel, a nice room, we could eat when we wanted, etc. Why is that not good enough?



c3000flyboy wrote:
I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.

If you feel you are a threat then you should not be working.


See also the story of the FedEx pilot who left his hotel room while under quarantine. Countries have an obligation to protect the health of their nationals first and foremost. Sorry it impacts your layovers.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:22 am

Flanker7 wrote:
KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.


This is an interesting route KL has implemented, because that particular planned 772 will carry on and take the scenic route before going homebound, going thru AMS - CTU - ICN - PVG - AMS.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:27 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.


This is an interesting route KL has implemented, because that particular planned 772 will carry on and take the scenic route before going homebound, going thru AMS - CTU - ICN - PVG - AMS.


*Correction: AMS - CTU - ICN - PEK - AMS
 
LTEN11
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:45 am

flyPIT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions.

You are talking about the South American crew that went to the beach?

LTEN11 wrote:
So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.

If you read what I wrote, it is not the idea of being quarantined that I have issue with. It is the treatment throughout. A police hotel? Full police escort from the plane? Being told when you can eat? Really? How stupid. Just a bunch of insulting theatrics.

When this first began in SYD we were confined to our room, but at least it was our usual downtown hotel, a nice room, we could eat when we wanted, etc. Why is that not good enough?



c3000flyboy wrote:
I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.

If you feel you are a threat then you should not be working.


There had been more than one reported incident, with at least one being attributed to a United crew. Crews had been given a level of leniency, some chose to abuse the privilege, which was then linked to an outbreak. There was a media and public outcry because of it when the apparent laxness of rules and enforcement were made public. Aircrew only have themselves to blame for that and while it's unfortunate that all get tainted with the same brush for probably only a small number abusing the rules, that's the price to pay in the current environment. It only takes one incident for someone to go to a crowded venue and before you know it, there can be hundreds of cases.

So again, you're not going to get any sympathy here, especially when there are thousands of Australians stuck in their rooms for 14 days. You do of course always have the option of not flying here if you feel so aggrieved by the way you perceive your treatment.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.


This is an interesting route KL has implemented, because that particular planned 772 will carry on and take the scenic route before going homebound, going thru AMS - CTU - ICN - PVG - AMS.


*Correction: AMS - CTU - ICN - PEK - AMS

The aircraft might, she doesn't do PEK but goes home from ICN.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:31 am

blandy62 wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
KLM same story, wife goes AMS-CTU-ICN-AMS tomorrow.


I understand KLM does it also BKK on the AMS-BKK-HKG-BKK-HKG run

That's correct
 
Flanker7
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:36 am

Flanker7 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:

This is an interesting route KL has implemented, because that particular planned 772 will carry on and take the scenic route before going homebound, going thru AMS - CTU - ICN - PVG - AMS.


*Correction: AMS - CTU - ICN - PEK - AMS

Most of the crew is non working on the CTU-ICN stretch.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:47 am

flyPIT wrote:
Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks..


Who is being treated like a criminal? How so?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:02 am

flyPIT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions.

You are talking about the South American crew that went to the beach?

LTEN11 wrote:
So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.

If you read what I wrote, it is not the idea of being quarantined that I have issue with. It is the treatment throughout. A police hotel? Full police escort from the plane? Being told when you can eat? Really? How stupid. Just a bunch of insulting theatrics.

When this first began in SYD we were confined to our room, but at least it was our usual downtown hotel, a nice room, we could eat when we wanted, etc. Why is that not good enough?



c3000flyboy wrote:
I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.

If you feel you are a threat then you should not be working.

Because a few of your fellow airline crew members decided that being honest is not good enough and deliberately breached quarantine, fully aware of the isolation requirements. Sorry for your experience but live with it, otherwise I believe you can always choose not to fly down here.

It's not a normal period when you (or anyone as a matter of fact) can do whatever they like - C'est La Vie.

Michael
 
raylee67
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 am

flyPIT wrote:
Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks.


They don't wear masks exactly because they are locking up the incoming travelers.

flyPIT wrote:
As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.


Hotel rooms in HKG would be ultra-small (except if you are staying at the expensive hotels such as Four Seasons or Ritz). That's the result of expensive property price. A middle-class apartment unit in a 40-year-old apartment building would cost up to USD 2500 per sq foot. So when they use the same land to build hotel rooms, the hotel rooms are naturally ultra-small or ultra-expensive.

There are actually 36 designated quarantine hotels in Hong Kong, including 5-star ones such as Mandarin Oriental and Le Meridian. If you stay in those ones, you get a large room (around 400 to 500 sq ft) and good food, but they are expensive. If you can get your airlines to pay for those, then HKG hotels would not be worst of the worst.
 
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c933103
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:57 am

Have such arrangement been extended to HKG?
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:04 am

LTEN11 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


That’s the case in most of East Asia and Australia. In SYD they actually call it the “police hotel” because that is what it is to include full police escort from the airplane to your hotel room. This includes being read your lack of rights. Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks.

As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.


The lack of masks and most things being open in SYD is because Australia has been doing the 2 week hotel quarantine for nearly a year. Just about every current case in Australia is either a returned traveler in hotel quarantine, or is linked to staff at one of the hotels catching it from a returned traveler. There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions. So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.


We down here in Melbourne last year went through 5 months of lockdown, couldn't go any further than 5 km from your home, and a curfew from 8 pm until 5 am in the morning every thing shut down and people losing their job and businesses that was last year, now today we have just come out of another snap lockdown, In Europe and America even though the numbers are almost double over there, they have had more freedom than us here, so yeah the aircrews have really nothing to complain about being stuck in a hotel room for one or 2 days.
 
drmlnr1
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:22 am

c3000flyboy wrote:
"Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks."

Pure insanity that you don't see those that are traveling into their country could be posing a threat to the health. As a flight attendant, I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.


I really like what you said. Having worked for a US3 as customer service I support this statement because we don’t know who has what and if they are contagious.
 
musapapaya
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:56 am

c933103 wrote:
Have such arrangement been extended to HKG?


I think all crew arriving into HKG will be required a 14 day isolation in a hotel and 7 more days self isolation (health surveillance) for HKG based crew.

https://loyaltylobby.com/2021/02/10/cat ... quirement/
 
ben175
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:52 pm

flyPIT wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
There have been cases linked to aircrew not abiding by the previous rules, hence the tougher restrictions.

You are talking about the South American crew that went to the beach?

LTEN11 wrote:
So sorry if you don't get much sympathy from anyone in Australia, the country has worked hard to keep infections to a minimum and if our own citizens can put up with it for 2 weeks, aircrew can do it for a day or two.

If you read what I wrote, it is not the idea of being quarantined that I have issue with. It is the treatment throughout. A police hotel? Full police escort from the plane? Being told when you can eat? Really? How stupid. Just a bunch of insulting theatrics.

When this first began in SYD we were confined to our room, but at least it was our usual downtown hotel, a nice room, we could eat when we wanted, etc. Why is that not good enough?



c3000flyboy wrote:
I can say that the amount of people we encounter from all over the world, while we too travel the world and layover, my carrying something could be completely possible and a threat to the health of another country. I don't fault them at all for putting restrictions on crew travel.

If you feel you are a threat then you should not be working.


First of all, your layover is part of your work. Maybe think about the thousands of people who have lost their jobs in this pandemic before you complain about “harsh treatment” on your 24 hour stay.

If you don’t like the rules, don’t fly here. Australia, in particularly Victoria (enduring one of the toughest worldwide lockdowns last year) has worked extremely hard to keep Covid out. In the past few months every single small outbreak has been caused by a breach in hotel quarantine, flight crews included.

It is unfortunate that the actions of a few have resulted in harsher conditions - but I can’t understand you complaining when the rules are there to keep an entire nation, one of the very select few that has managed this virus, safe and open for business.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:15 pm

LTEN11 wrote:
[
There had been more than one reported incident, with at least one being attributed to a United crew. Crews had been given a level of leniency, some chose to abuse the privilege, which was then linked to an outbreak.


What nonsense. The United "incident" was linked to the van driver that shuttled crews to the hotel. Initially airline crews were blamed for this. Last I hear was he contracted it from other airport employees locally. Reardless:

"Premier Gladys Berejiklian on Friday announced crews would be required to isolate in one of two hotels supervised by police and NSW Health from next Tuesday, after the northern beaches cluster grew to 28 cases.

There has been no suggestion the United Airlines crew member is linked to the cluster.
'
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/uni ... 56osk.html

For those that are saying "don't fly there" it's not that simple.



raylee67 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:
As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.


Hotel rooms in HKG would be ultra-small (except if you are staying at the expensive hotels such as Four Seasons or Ritz). That's the result of expensive property price. A middle-class apartment unit in a 40-year-old apartment building would cost up to USD 2500 per sq foot. So when they use the same land to build hotel rooms, the hotel rooms are naturally ultra-small or ultra-expensive.

There are actually 36 designated quarantine hotels in Hong Kong, including 5-star ones such as Mandarin Oriental and Le Meridian. If you stay in those ones, you get a large room (around 400 to 500 sq ft) and good food, but they are expensive. If you can get your airlines to pay for those, then HKG hotels would not be worst of the worst.


The hotels are not the issue in HKG. The issue is being pulled from your hotel if your inbound test results come back positive then held against your will at the Asia World Exposition for up to three weeks with a few hundred other foreigners.

Image
Image
Image
 
LTEN11
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:53 pm

flyPIT,

You can jump up and down and bark at a tree all you like, but you're still not going to get any sympathy in this part of the world during a worldwide pandemic, it's as simple as that.

Australia has worked hard to keep it's population safe, there is no local transmission, except for outbreaks linked to returned travelers, quarantine hotels and aircrew transiting. We have put up with some of the toughest restrictions anywhere, Victoria especially fighting hard. The outcome has seen great results, sure we complain about state borders being closed, especially when it involves a single case and other restrictions thrown at us overnight, but most realise it's for the best in the end and we put up with it because of that. So again, whilst you can complain all you like about your police hotel, you can only blame other crew for not following the rules.

You still do have an the option of not flying the world at this time, admittedly it's not an easy choice to make to leave a job, but if you're not happy with the conditions, don't feel safe doing it, it's still your choice. So it's either follow the different rules around the world, accept them and get on with life, or leave, there's always someone else who will do it.
 
raylee67
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:25 am

flyPIT wrote:

The hotels are not the issue in HKG. The issue is being pulled from your hotel if your inbound test results come back positive then held against your will at the Asia World Exposition for up to three weeks with a few hundred other foreigners.


Oh that. Note that it's not for foreigners specifically. Anyone tested positive in Hong Kong is sent there. Before the surge of cases in July, anyone tested positive (regardless of severity of symptoms or whether you have symptoms at all) is sent to a real hospital in the isolation wards. But with over a hundred cases a day in July, hospitals do not have space to handle those that don't really need medical assistance. So they set up this place. I would think most people in the facilities are locals.

I think Singapore is doing something similar (at least for the locals). May be the facility is better in Singapore, but the concept is the same. Taiwan definitely still puts you in the isolation ward of a hospital if you are positive. With low number of cases, they can still afford to do that.

This is essentially Asia's way to make sure positive cases are immediately removed from the community. There are three reasons to do this:
1. there is no guarantee someone positive would stay at home if he/she is just told to do so, and you just need one person breaking the rule to get everything ruined,
2. there is actually proof that the virus can spread through sewage systems (even if they are not leaking) in apartments, so a positive person can still infect others in different unit in the same building even if he/she strictly stays home, and
3. Most homes in Hong Kong are quite cramped. There is no way to isolate a single person from the rest of the household in the same unit. So that person has to be removed from his/her own home and be put somewhere

While point 3 doesn't apply to incoming travelers who tested positive, 1 and 2 still do.
 
747cllipper747
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:35 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Talasartir wrote:
SAS does 24h layover in PVG, tests before and after the flight. Escort to the government designated hotel and no possibility to leave the room during the entire layover.


That’s the case in most of East Asia and Australia. In SYD they actually call it the “police hotel” because that is what it is to include full police escort from the airplane to your hotel room. This includes being read your lack of rights. Pure insanity to be treated like a criminal while everything there is fully open and no one wears masks.

As bad as bad as the conditions are for crews laying over in mainland China it is HKG where crews should avoid. It is the worst of the worst.



Why is this insanity? They avoided the thousands of Covid positive people by being smart. We in the USA are stupid as no one from the top down under Trump ever made any guidelines. Why should Australia bend and allow us in and bring our COVID positive people there? I agree with them and we should have done the same but too many here think they should make their own rules! Nope!
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:04 pm

raylee67 wrote:
This is essentially Asia's way to make sure positive cases are immediately removed from the community. There are three reasons to do this:
1. there is no guarantee someone positive would stay at home if he/she is just told to do so, and you just need one person breaking the rule to get everything ruined,
2. there is actually proof that the virus can spread through sewage systems (even if they are not leaking) in apartments, so a positive person can still infect others in different unit in the same building even if he/she strictly stays home, and
3. Most homes in Hong Kong are quite cramped. There is no way to isolate a single person from the rest of the household in the same unit. So that person has to be removed from his/her own home and be put somewhere

While point 3 doesn't apply to incoming travelers who tested positive, 1 and 2 still do.


The flight crews are already locked up in their hotel room. There is no leaving the hotel, it is clamped down. If someone is already isolated in the room and a test subsequently comes back positive, why bring that crew member out and have them mixed in with a few hundred other people. What if that test is a false positive? That has happened to a handful of people at my carrier. What if the test really is positive, why bring that crew member to a facility that no doubt will have false positives? It just doesn't make sense. The course of action for the vast majority of people with COVID is to isolate. Now if their condition deteriorates then of course that is a different story and call for medical help.

Gotta love the prisoner uniforms and dog food though.


747cllipper747 wrote:
Why is this insanity? They avoided the thousands of Covid positive people by being smart. We in the USA are stupid as no one from the top down under Trump ever made any guidelines. Why should Australia bend and allow us in and bring our COVID positive people there? I agree with them and we should have done the same but too many here think they should make their own rules! Nope!


Again, I don't have an issue with the concept of quarantine. The "insanity" part is that there was a public outcry after a false story that a United crew caused a small outbreak in Sydney's suburbs. So the response was a bunch of theatrics where foreign flight crews are treated as criminals. Now must stay at a "police hotel"; while on the police bus read by an officer what rights we don't have off a card in one hand and the other hand on a batton (kinda comical actually); can only eat at certain times, etc. What's next, they will tell us when we can crap too?

Are the local quarantine hotel workers forced to stay in these police hotels? How about the other airport workers? Ticket and customer service agents? How about the police officers that are in direct contact with these crews? Do they lock themselves up after their shift? If the answer was yes then I wouldn't feel as I do as at least the measures would be across the board. But there was that false story about the United crew starting an outbreak so they had to have some sort of media reaction to appease the masses resulting in this double standard of only airline crews forced in police hotels.

The prior arrangement where we stayed at the normal hotels was just fine. Everything was normal with the exception of not being allowed out of the hotel room. I have no idea how this LATAM crew (who by the way all tested negative and were heavily fined) got out of their hotel but sounds like an issue with security at that specific hotel. Was never a problem at the hotel my crews stay at. NSW police even had an outpost there. It worked just fine.



Standing by for the moronic "If you don't like it, quit" comments, as if everyone else doesn't have gripes about their job.
 
x1234
Topic Author
Posts: 1149
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:09 pm

I have to add this is at a Chinese government owned/affiliated hotel instead of the usual Western chains that crews stay in.
 
raylee67
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:49 am

flyPIT wrote:

The flight crews are already locked up in their hotel room. There is no leaving the hotel, it is clamped down. If someone is already isolated in the room and a test subsequently comes back positive, why bring that crew member out and have them mixed in with a few hundred other people. What if that test is a false positive? That has happened to a handful of people at my carrier. What if the test really is positive, why bring that crew member to a facility that no doubt will have false positives? It just doesn't make sense. The course of action for the vast majority of people with COVID is to isolate. Now if their condition deteriorates then of course that is a different story and call for medical help.

Gotta love the prisoner uniforms and dog food though.


Well, the rationale is that hotel staff is not trained to handle positives, and the ventilation and sewage systems are connected with other rooms or the corridor in the hotel, so it's not suitable for "isolation" purpose of positives. The objectives of places like Australia, Taiwan, Hong Kong or Vietnam is to push the number of new cases to ZERO. To do that, the isolation of positive cases need to be complete and air-tight. So I can understand why they want to put positive cases away from any possible contact (even via sewage or collection of garbage, etc.) from anyone else. False positive is an issue. Hong Kong just announced yesterday 16 false positives (all locals) are sent to the facility in the last few weeks. So now they are going to test twice before bringing people into that facility.

The food is bad there. The facility was used to isolate incoming travelers waiting for test results before it was turned to a facility to isolate positive cases. The wait could be as long as 10 hours there at that time so I have been there and I have had a "lunch" there while waiting. I was glad that it's just one meal.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:03 am

Fuling wrote:
AA is doing the same via NRT.


It's definitely via ICN, both DFW and LAX and soon SEA also. The multiple ICN cargo flights also a supplement crews for the pax flights.
 
Fuling
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:39 am

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
AA is doing the same via NRT.


It's definitely via ICN, both DFW and LAX and soon SEA also. The multiple ICN cargo flights also a supplement crews for the pax flights.


My bad! I must be thinking of USA-NRT-HKG instead.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:26 am

How are Qantas crews doing?
 
crosscheckyyz
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:50 am

Re: Current status of crew avoiding layover in PVG via ICN

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:29 am

flyPIT wrote:
The flight crews are already locked up in their hotel room. There is no leaving the hotel, it is clamped down.


You know as being a furloughed crew due to the pandemic I realize a few things about my job.

The job was flying from point a to point b. The perks of the jobs meant you stayed in a great hotel in the city center and could go out and enjoy the city, the culture, the food, the sights.

You need to realize that other governments take their health and safety protocols a lot more serious than others in order to protect their citizens. If you're a crew member and cannot realize that this is what it is because of the pandemic maybe don't bit SYD trips? Or better yet don't do layovers at all? I mean...you still have a job if you're talking as a crew member.

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