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YoungDon
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu May 31, 2001 9:33 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
luckyone wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
Seems to me this is the equivalent of those t-storms (or the power outage...) at ATL several years back, but now it’s really hitting AA. 49% of MQ ops canceled on the day and 28% of AA mainline... it’s a mess, crews out of place everywhere, they’ve already canceled my flight into DFW on Wednesday afternoon. I imagine it’ll take a week or more for them to right the ship. I can’t imagine the kind of mess it would be if COVID weren’t going on

UA isn’t in great shape with IAH and ORD getting slammed today too...

ORD though is equipped for and accustomed to such weather, even if the magnitude is high. It's one of the things I really admire about Midwesterners--they're resilient because they have to be, and you learn what really and truly is a problem and what you can live with when you know how. This year reminds me of the winter of 2013-2014. It started snowing around Halloween and more or less snowed once or twice a week until mid April, with significant accumulation and many days in a row of heavy snow. ORD will likely be up and running shortly after the snow stops falling. IAH will probably take a little longer just because of course this happens so rarely in Houston.


Did DFW and IAH get ice or snow? Ice is quite a bit more disruptive, especially when followed by temperatures that drop low enough that salt is ineffective. I've lived both in the snow belt and in the ice belt. The likes of BNA, MEM, and SDF deal with snow just about as well as places that get a lot of snow. The last time we had 6+ inches of snow in Nashville, essentially everything was plowed and up and running within about 24 hours. Ice is a very, very different beast because it isn't really plowable.


IAH got ice and freezing rain followed by maybe an inch of snow. It started raining Sunday night and then turned into freezing rain and then finally a little snow Monday morning. Roads have been slowly reopening but the city is shut down for all intents and purposes since it's only now really gotten above freezing for any extended period of time.

I believe DFW just got snow the entire time (please correct if this is not the case) while AUS and SAT got significant amounts of both ice and snow (4-6 inches apiece).
 
alohashirts
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:43 pm

Here in Utah we got a ton of snow, but luckily SLC is pretty good with snow removal and all that comes with a big snow storm. I feel for all those in Texas and the south dealing with this terrible weather.
 
CMHARJ
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:28 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:21 am

Do Southern stations, such as IAH, SAT, AUS, MSY, JAX have many deice trucks or if any deice trucks? Since snow/ice is rare in that part of the country, do those stations just let the sun come up and let the ice melt naturally?
 
WN732
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:24 am

CMHARJ wrote:
Do Southern stations, such as IAH, SAT, AUS, MSY, JAX have many deice trucks or if any deice trucks? Since snow/ice is rare in that part of the country, do those stations just let the sun come up and let the ice melt naturally?


For AUS we have enough for light wintry precip, but what we've had was unprecedented. Not to mention that the roads to/from the airport were impassable. We've gotten our first flights out this afternoon.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:04 am

CMHARJ wrote:
Do Southern stations, such as IAH, SAT, AUS, MSY, JAX have many deice trucks or if any deice trucks? Since snow/ice is rare in that part of the country, do those stations just let the sun come up and let the ice melt naturally?


SAT has deice trucks and glycol but not much in the way of equipment to remove ice and snow from the airfield, which resulted in the airport closing. AUS and SAT just reopened this afternoon.
 
Iluvtofly
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:19 am

Everyone always thinks of Canada being so cold ...... it was sunny and 47F today in Vancouver.
Flown - B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 A300 310 319 320 321 330 340 Concorde BAC111 TU154 VC10 F27 F28 F100 DC3 DC8 DC9 DC10 L1011 L188 DHC6 DHC7 DHC8 E135 E145 HS748 MD11 ST27 CV580 S340 ATR42 J31
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9284
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:27 pm

I recall, now many years ago (late 80s, early 90s?) flying in to Houston Hobby just as an ice storm was getting started. After it stopped, leaving a light glaze and very little snow but continuing temperatures below freezing, the City of Houston said it was going to be a while to get even the major roads open, as it has just 2 snow plow/salting trucks. Two! This week a TV report mentioned that Oakland County, MI, population 1.3 million (immediately north of Detroit) had 130. Actually, it may be more than 130 because the reference was '130 deployed.'

We may be in a time when weather abnormalities are both more frequent and severe. Airports and airlines need to think about bigger investments to be used only in still-fairly-rare occasions, or if they're willing to see reliability go down the tubes and large-scale system shutdowns. If the latter, somebody needs to be responsible for developing a real plan to support a hypothetical 10,000 people getting stuck at O'Hare (or DEN, or DFW, or MSP...) for five days with sleeping shelter, hygiene, essential medical services, and food.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:08 pm

How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14968
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:36 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.


MEM got another round yesterday afternoon, which is no doubt unhelpful.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:29 pm

CMHARJ wrote:
Do Southern stations, such as IAH, SAT, AUS, MSY, JAX have many deice trucks or if any deice trucks? Since snow/ice is rare in that part of the country, do those stations just let the sun come up and let the ice melt naturally?


DFW does, not sure about others in the region.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4317
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:54 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
CMHARJ wrote:
Do Southern stations, such as IAH, SAT, AUS, MSY, JAX have many deice trucks or if any deice trucks? Since snow/ice is rare in that part of the country, do those stations just let the sun come up and let the ice melt naturally?


DFW does, not sure about others in the region.


IAH does, though no clue of how many. In the fall you'd see the two or three at the airport at that time back in 2012, (my last time at work) on the maintenance ramp going through de-icing training. Doubt the airport or UA has many more now than back then, hope I'm wrong.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
DakotaFlyer
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:19 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:06 pm

An interesting comparison between southern and northern airport snow removal capacity:
MSP fleet includes 21 runway plow trucks, 15 front-mount rotary brooms, eight multifunction vehicles, 18 snowblower trucks, 19 sanding trucks, eight deicer trucks, 15 gate tractors, 25 wheeled loaders and 12 skid-steers

https://airportimprovement.com/article/ ... w%20events.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:20 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

Nothing has really moved in or out of MEM all week, and likely won't until at least Saturday if not later. USPS product and FedEx volume alike is sitting on ramps and hubs across the country, unable to move. I just bumped another MD-11-load of USPS freight yet another day. That was tendered to us on Tuesday morning. Yesterday I rolled 181k lbs of freight. We have the planes but MEM is refusing to accept any freight right now, I read the other day that as of Tuesday night there was 3000 containers of freight on the ground at MEM not moving. Last night I heard there was TWO departures from FedEx. When usually that number would be at least 130.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:19 pm

HPRamper wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

Nothing has really moved in or out of MEM all week, and likely won't until at least Saturday if not later. USPS product and FedEx volume alike is sitting on ramps and hubs across the country, unable to move. I just bumped another MD-11-load of USPS freight yet another day. That was tendered to us on Tuesday morning. Yesterday I rolled 181k lbs of freight. We have the planes but MEM is refusing to accept any freight right now, I read the other day that as of Tuesday night there was 3000 containers of freight on the ground at MEM not moving. Last night I heard there was TWO departures from FedEx. When usually that number would be at least 130.


Frustrating that they sent it to MEM on Tuesday night then. Couldn't have bypassed that hub?
 
Tack
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:09 pm

DakotaFlyer wrote:
An interesting comparison between southern and northern airport snow removal capacity:
MSP fleet includes 21 runway plow trucks, 15 front-mount rotary brooms, eight multifunction vehicles, 18 snowblower trucks, 19 sanding trucks, eight deicer trucks, 15 gate tractors, 25 wheeled loaders and 12 skid-steers

https://airportimprovement.com/article/ ... w%20events.



Compare that to JAN which has been closed since Sunday night, and won’t re-open until 1100p Friday. Their only surface ice removal is Mother Nature, relying on warm temps to melt the taxi and runways clean.
 
WN732
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:14 pm

WN has canceled everything at AUS today - again. I am not sure if they've gotten anything out of AUS at all this week. They have 2 airplanes here that have been here for over 4 days now.
Last edited by WN732 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:17 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

Nothing has really moved in or out of MEM all week, and likely won't until at least Saturday if not later. USPS product and FedEx volume alike is sitting on ramps and hubs across the country, unable to move. I just bumped another MD-11-load of USPS freight yet another day. That was tendered to us on Tuesday morning. Yesterday I rolled 181k lbs of freight. We have the planes but MEM is refusing to accept any freight right now, I read the other day that as of Tuesday night there was 3000 containers of freight on the ground at MEM not moving. Last night I heard there was TWO departures from FedEx. When usually that number would be at least 130.


Frustrating that they sent it to MEM on Tuesday night then. Couldn't have bypassed that hub?

FX is showing a disturbing lack of flexibility right now as far as alternate freight movements. Multiple other hubs that could be utilized. They aren't.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:18 pm

HPRamper wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
How's FX in MEM doing? I have had a 2-day (promised delivery yesterday 2/17) package sitting there with no updates for over 24 hours. Even if it left MEM today it would not be delivered until tomorrow at the earliest, which is 2 days late. It would have been about the same amount of time now to have the free ground shipping instead of paying for expedited shipping. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

Nothing has really moved in or out of MEM all week, and likely won't until at least Saturday if not later. USPS product and FedEx volume alike is sitting on ramps and hubs across the country, unable to move. I just bumped another MD-11-load of USPS freight yet another day. That was tendered to us on Tuesday morning. Yesterday I rolled 181k lbs of freight. We have the planes but MEM is refusing to accept any freight right now, I read the other day that as of Tuesday night there was 3000 containers of freight on the ground at MEM not moving. Last night I heard there was TWO departures from FedEx. When usually that number would be at least 130.


Nor did it help that t I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock in Arkansas was a complete train wreck. You'd be surprised how many parcels got caught in that snafu.

MEM approved the bonds for a fancy new centralized deicing facility today, lol.

https://dailymemphian.com/section/busin ... r-de-icing
 
gdavis003
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:35 pm

HPRamper wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
Nothing has really moved in or out of MEM all week, and likely won't until at least Saturday if not later. USPS product and FedEx volume alike is sitting on ramps and hubs across the country, unable to move. I just bumped another MD-11-load of USPS freight yet another day. That was tendered to us on Tuesday morning. Yesterday I rolled 181k lbs of freight. We have the planes but MEM is refusing to accept any freight right now, I read the other day that as of Tuesday night there was 3000 containers of freight on the ground at MEM not moving. Last night I heard there was TWO departures from FedEx. When usually that number would be at least 130.


Frustrating that they sent it to MEM on Tuesday night then. Couldn't have bypassed that hub?

FX is showing a disturbing lack of flexibility right now as far as alternate freight movements. Multiple other hubs that could be utilized. They aren't.


That's my question as well. Couldn't they route packages through EWR/IND/GSO/AFW instead? Add an extra sort time at regional hubs? I know that's much more complex than just changing the destination of a flight, but it seems like that complexity is worth it from a $$$ standpoint. They surely have the folks who would be able to develop a plan with such complexity. Just from an outsider's perspective looking in
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:21 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

Frustrating that they sent it to MEM on Tuesday night then. Couldn't have bypassed that hub?

FX is showing a disturbing lack of flexibility right now as far as alternate freight movements. Multiple other hubs that could be utilized. They aren't.


That's my question as well. Couldn't they route packages through EWR/IND/GSO/AFW instead? Add an extra sort time at regional hubs? I know that's much more complex than just changing the destination of a flight, but it seems like that complexity is worth it from a $$$ standpoint. They surely have the folks who would be able to develop a plan with such complexity. Just from an outsider's perspective looking in


Funny enough my package originated at the EWR hub, which has a flight to DEN (I live in COS). But regardless still plenty of options to get it out of EWR without touching MEM.

Oh well. I guess it will just sit there a while.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7291
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:16 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Couldn't they route packages through EWR/IND/GSO/AFW instead? Add an extra sort time at regional hubs? I know that's much more complex than just changing the destination of a flight, but it seems like that complexity is worth it from a $$$ standpoint. They surely have the folks who would be able to develop a plan with such complexity. Just from an outsider's perspective looking in


I doubt AFW would have been much use given the weather in Texas.

But to go deeper, they likely face limitations which aren't that different from passenger carriers in adverse weather. Sorting capacity and labor available to unload/load aircraft at the other hubs isn't really built to deal with MEM going down just because it only happens once every few years. It's almost certainly cheaper to occasionally pay out performance penalties to shippers than to carry a bunch of excess capacity that might get used once or twice in a decade. Also, availability of flight crews and duty time becomes problematic if they start rerouting flights. There's not much sense in sending planes to GSO or IND if they won't have crews to fly the planes out.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:15 am

ScottB wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
Couldn't they route packages through EWR/IND/GSO/AFW instead? Add an extra sort time at regional hubs? I know that's much more complex than just changing the destination of a flight, but it seems like that complexity is worth it from a $$$ standpoint. They surely have the folks who would be able to develop a plan with such complexity. Just from an outsider's perspective looking in


I doubt AFW would have been much use given the weather in Texas.

But to go deeper, they likely face limitations which aren't that different from passenger carriers in adverse weather. Sorting capacity and labor available to unload/load aircraft at the other hubs isn't really built to deal with MEM going down just because it only happens once every few years. It's almost certainly cheaper to occasionally pay out performance penalties to shippers than to carry a bunch of excess capacity that might get used once or twice in a decade. Also, availability of flight crews and duty time becomes problematic if they start rerouting flights. There's not much sense in sending planes to GSO or IND if they won't have crews to fly the planes out.

It's not something that can really be done on the fly, so to speak, but with some deep planning they certainly could have hashed out those details as an emergency contingency. It's in the past now though.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:32 pm

CARST wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
This global warming is freezing us to death!


If this was a dig at human-caused change in weather and climate, it wasn't a good one. The scenario we are dealing with is climate change, which is caused by humans. This climate change comes with a lot of effects. Extreme heat-waves (often mislabled as global warming), extreme cold-waves, extreme storms, extreme rainfalls, and lots of other extremes, which we haven't seen before. That is why you so often read these days "more snow/rain/insert-weather-effect-here than ever recorded in the past 100 years" or "highest/coldest temperature ever recorded in XYZ". And with climate change causing all these different extremes, you also see that we are not dealing with a slow, normal change in weather (because climate always changed in the millions of year this planet exists), but we are dealing with a climate change, that negatively effects all our lives with extreme heatwaves, coldwaves, storms, torrential rains and so on...


Well to put this in perspective the last time it got as cold as it did st XNA in Northwest Arkansas was 1899 at -25F. We we five short of the all time low here. Not much is known about how cold it can be before 1800 as white man wasn't around. I'm going on 50 now and we are due these cold outbreaks every 10 to 15 years. They was the early to mid 80s, early to mid 90s, same for early to mid 2000s and around 2010/2011. This one lines up perfectly just especially cold. In fact it was nearly to the date that Fayetteville Ar hit -20f that it hit -19F in 2011. That was followed by a summer of near 30 straight days of 100F or more days. What they had in common was a a similar La Nina pattern.

The earth has been melting since the end of the last ice age with some periodic short lived cooling periods. We are not going to stop what the earth does.

I've used the block of ice in coolers analogy before. The bigger the piece of ice, the cold it keeps its immediate area. Eventually though it does melt and as it gets smaller the rate of melting increase. The melting further increases as it breaks apart. That's been Earth since after it froze the Dinosaurs out and started to warm back up and it was warmer before that event than it is now.

I can't tell you the kind of stories I've seen like nearly perfect mammoth found in Siberia due to global warming and totally miss that the Siberian tundra was once grazing land for giant hairy elephants it wasn't once frozen.

I still remember 'the science' telling us we were heading into a new ice age in the 70's.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:32 pm

Oh and MEM:

Ongoing Memphis Light, Gas & Water (MLGW) water pressure issues have forced the closure of the Memphis International Airport - MEM passenger terminal. As a result, the airport is closed to incoming and outgoing passenger flights on Friday, Feb 19. Airport will reopen once water service has been restored. https://flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5350
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14968
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:16 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Oh and MEM:

Ongoing Memphis Light, Gas & Water (MLGW) water pressure issues have forced the closure of the Memphis International Airport - MEM passenger terminal. As a result, the airport is closed to incoming and outgoing passenger flights on Friday, Feb 19. Airport will reopen once water service has been restored. https://flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5350


When it rains it pours. On a happier note, at least judging from flightaware it seems like FX had a much better night last night.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:27 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Oh and MEM:

Ongoing Memphis Light, Gas & Water (MLGW) water pressure issues have forced the closure of the Memphis International Airport - MEM passenger terminal. As a result, the airport is closed to incoming and outgoing passenger flights on Friday, Feb 19. Airport will reopen once water service has been restored. https://flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5350


When it rains it pours. On a happier note, at least judging from flightaware it seems like FX had a much better night last night.



Looks like MLGW is about to shutdown water to the whole city. Needless to say it is hitting the fan there. My Mom just called to say see may be on her way up to NWA.
 
panam330
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:53 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Oh and MEM:

Ongoing Memphis Light, Gas & Water (MLGW) water pressure issues have forced the closure of the Memphis International Airport - MEM passenger terminal. As a result, the airport is closed to incoming and outgoing passenger flights on Friday, Feb 19. Airport will reopen once water service has been restored. https://flymemphis.com/NewsDetails?newsid=5350


When it rains it pours. On a happier note, at least judging from flightaware it seems like FX had a much better night last night.


Looks like MLGW is about to shutdown water to the whole city. Needless to say it is hitting the fan there. My Mom just called to say see may be on her way up to NWA.


Indeed, though not the whole city; I crash with a friend in Midtown when I’m here for work (I don’t live here full-time), and my place hasn’t had water since Wednesday night. MLGW says there were 250+ water main breaks, with more expected as it thaws out. It’s been an absolute hellscape here since the first ice over a week ago.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:28 am

My FedEx 2Day package is still sitting somewhere in MEM. I figured by now they could get it moving this direction. Tomorrow will be a full week since FedEx took possession of it in NYC.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:44 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
My FedEx 2Day package is still sitting somewhere in MEM. I figured by now they could get it moving this direction. Tomorrow will be a full week since FedEx took possession of it in NYC.



We had a FedEx package coming from Miami. It was supposed to have been delivered last Wednesday, but it went to MEM too and it is still there.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 772 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E70/75/95 (PA28,152)
 
panam330
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:53 am

SRQLOT wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
My FedEx 2Day package is still sitting somewhere in MEM. I figured by now they could get it moving this direction. Tomorrow will be a full week since FedEx took possession of it in NYC.



We had a FedEx package coming from Miami. It was supposed to have been delivered last Wednesday, but it went to MEM too and it is still there.


Not that I’m not sympathetic to your plights, because it’s frustrating and I understand that, but to put things into perspective, a large portion of the city of Memphis still doesn’t have water. Until it melts over the next few days, we still have many unplowed roads - over a week later. It’s going to take a few days (at the very least) to recover the lost volume; I imagine there will be a lot of late packages on both FX and 5X, as both were hit very hard by these successive weather events.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:45 am

panam330 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
My FedEx 2Day package is still sitting somewhere in MEM. I figured by now they could get it moving this direction. Tomorrow will be a full week since FedEx took possession of it in NYC.



We had a FedEx package coming from Miami. It was supposed to have been delivered last Wednesday, but it went to MEM too and it is still there.


Not that I’m not sympathetic to your plights, because it’s frustrating and I understand that, but to put things into perspective, a large portion of the city of Memphis still doesn’t have water. Until it melts over the next few days, we still have many unplowed roads - over a week later. It’s going to take a few days (at the very least) to recover the lost volume; I imagine there will be a lot of late packages on both FX and 5X, as both were hit very hard by these successive weather events.


More amazed that they continued routing packages directly into the eye of the storm than I am frustrated about it.
Especially when these packages are originating in hubs or large stations with other alternatives.
 
ABpositive
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:29 am

CARST wrote:
SkyVoice wrote:
This global warming is freezing us to death!


If this was a dig at human-caused change in weather and climate, it wasn't a good one. The scenario we are dealing with is climate change, which is caused by humans. This climate change comes with a lot of effects. Extreme heat-waves (often mislabled as global warming), extreme cold-waves, extreme storms, extreme rainfalls, and lots of other extremes, which we haven't seen before. That is why you so often read these days "more snow/rain/insert-weather-effect-here than ever recorded in the past 100 years" or "highest/coldest temperature ever recorded in XYZ". And with climate change causing all these different extremes, you also see that we are not dealing with a slow, normal change in weather (because climate always changed in the millions of year this planet exists), but we are dealing with a climate change, that negatively effects all our lives with extreme heatwaves, coldwaves, storms, torrential rains and so on...


Spot on!

Many airports will need to review their infrastructure and procedures as the number of extreme events increases. While extreme colds like these may not be worthwhile addressing, some of the other events like stronger winds, increased storm cells and flooding will be of greater relevance. Not to mention those airport built close to the sea level.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 am

There really aren't other hubs capable of taking the full load of MEM or SDF. UPS and FedEx do try to bypass the superhub/world port when possible but the regional hubs are only connected to a relatively small number of cities (with the possible exception of IND for FedEx which is pretty big, but not in MEM's league). Flught operations were about double the normal level this weekend to help recover. Still, it will take time.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:22 am

panam330 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
My FedEx 2Day package is still sitting somewhere in MEM. I figured by now they could get it moving this direction. Tomorrow will be a full week since FedEx took possession of it in NYC.



We had a FedEx package coming from Miami. It was supposed to have been delivered last Wednesday, but it went to MEM too and it is still there.


Not that I’m not sympathetic to your plights, because it’s frustrating and I understand that, but to put things into perspective, a large portion of the city of Memphis still doesn’t have water. Until it melts over the next few days, we still have many unplowed roads - over a week later. It’s going to take a few days (at the very least) to recover the lost volume; I imagine there will be a lot of late packages on both FX and 5X, as both were hit very hard by these successive weather events.



I mean I didn’t look for anything, and yes it’s horrible at loss of life and the pain that comes with these weather events. But we have about a 2 dozen employees who didn’t get their check this past Friday so it frustrating for them as we don’t know when the envelope will show up. I just wish they would have just trucked it to Tampa at that point.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 772 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E70/75/95 (PA28,152)
 
leoben
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:30 pm

jjbiv wrote:
There really aren't other hubs capable of taking the full load of MEM or SDF. UPS and FedEx do try to bypass the superhub/world port when possible but the regional hubs are only connected to a relatively small number of cities (with the possible exception of IND for FedEx which is pretty big, but not in MEM's league). Flught operations were about double the normal level this weekend to help recover. Still, it will take time.


-MEM has about 200 mainline gates and maybe 2 million pieces(from envelopes to full pallet size pieces) come through on a normal night, with maybe another million+ through a normal day sort. The new sort facility may increase the throughput, but I dont know. It is already a mind-boggling operation.

-IND has about 70 gates and also had WX issues most of the week. The expansion of the IND sort will provide additional relief to MEM, but that is ongoing and it is implausible that it could ever rival MEM in volume.
-AFW has 17 mainline parking spots and you might have heard - TX had a little bit of difficulty this last week.
-GSO has 9 mainline parking spots - WX was good there, but not a ton of capacity to start.
-EWR has 17 gates, with a healthy percentage of their volume not domestic, but TATL. The NE also did not have a great week for WX, but they are more accustomed to it.
-OAK has 17 gates and like EWR, a % of the volume is not domestic, but TPAC.

OAK and GSO were the only truly normal operations all week. But even if every other sort was at 100%, the total capacity is only around 1/2 of MEM.

In normal times, a large percentage of the flights through the smaller sorts are already just bypassing MEM. That capacity is already accounted for, and does not leave much for rerouting. Additionally, there are many stations that are ONLY served by MEM.

As for the trucking option, that may be another data point for the higher-ups in MEM to consider in regards to the organizational separation of Express and Ground. But doing point to point is very different that hub and spoke, whether by air or ground.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14968
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:57 pm

leoben wrote:
As for the trucking option, that may be another data point for the higher-ups in MEM to consider in regards to the organizational separation of Express and Ground. But doing point to point is very different that hub and spoke, whether by air or ground.


There are really two points here that are worth considering separately. Brown uses ground as sort of a short-haul feeder network. 5X doesn't fly BNA-SDF. FX does fly BNA-MEM. But UPS also does a tremendous amount of point to point that is quite a lot different from how FedEx works. I shipped a bunch of packages from Nashville by UPS Ground on Friday. The packages, which were destined for various points in the midwest and east coast, went first to Hodgkins (arguably a UPS hub, albeit all ground) and Knoxville (not a hub at all). That's quite a lot different from how they probably would have looked had I used FedEx.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
panam330
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Southern US Polar Vortex disruptions

Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:40 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:


We had a FedEx package coming from Miami. It was supposed to have been delivered last Wednesday, but it went to MEM too and it is still there.


Not that I’m not sympathetic to your plights, because it’s frustrating and I understand that, but to put things into perspective, a large portion of the city of Memphis still doesn’t have water. Until it melts over the next few days, we still have many unplowed roads - over a week later. It’s going to take a few days (at the very least) to recover the lost volume; I imagine there will be a lot of late packages on both FX and 5X, as both were hit very hard by these successive weather events.


More amazed that they continued routing packages directly into the eye of the storm than I am frustrated about it.
Especially when these packages are originating in hubs or large stations with other alternatives.

Oh, I don’t disagree. I don’t think anyone expected it to play out the way it did, and the fallout is most definitely a result of that. I myself got a fairly time-sensitive package 6 days late. Not exactly thrilled with that performance.

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