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DLASFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:32 pm

The Seattle Times took a look at Alaska vs. Delta hub operations during the recent snow event and spoke with both airlines. While AS obviously had more flights scheduled, it canceled a much higher percentage than DL. Delta canceled only 7 flights at SEA despite over a foot of snow, attributing its success to not relying on contractors and bringing in extra staff from other hubs ahead of the storm. A memo notes Delta was able to accommodate thousands of displaced passengers from two unnamed airlines.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... snowstorm/
 
WN732
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:55 pm

Makes sense. DL has 5 hubs in areas that collectively get major amounts of snow. AS deals with occasional snow in SEA and PDX.
 
BAINY3
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:06 pm

WN732 wrote:
Makes sense. DL has 5 hubs in areas that collectively get major amounts of snow. AS deals with occasional snow in SEA and PDX.

ANC averages more snow per season than places like MSP & DTW. But ANC doesn't exactly function as a huge hub for AS anymore relative to the rest of its operation (less than 2 million pax per year), so maybe that is a factor.
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:11 pm

All I'm going to say...I spent 8 HRS and 56 MINS on phone hold for an AS representative yesterday - a week after the "snow event". Website said make changes on-line and when I tried, it said unable.
 
crazyjaydawg
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:29 pm

I believe that DL learned a lot during the Christmas shit show of 2017.

AS has also slid backwards in customer service since the acquisition.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:39 pm

HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
All I'm going to say...I spent 8 HRS and 56 MINS on phone hold for an AS representative yesterday - a week after the "snow event". Website said make changes on-line and when I tried, it said unable.

Yah, as an MVP Gold (soon to be 75K), it really pissed me off that they had hold times over 10 hours on the elite line...and when I got to the airport, they didn’t empower the counter staff to help out any way they could; it was always “just call the number, they can help you better than we can.”

AS really dropped the ball this past week and a half, and I wish the media would call them out on it more than they have.
 
Prost
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:41 pm

I wonder what has changed? I have the utmost respect for Alaska and their employees, and they usually keep all other airlines on their toes.
 
LH658
Posts: 1287
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:48 pm

They canceled my up coming flight and booked me on earlier one without even informing me or giving me the option to choose another time to fly.
 
Josh76040
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:02 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:04 pm

LOL

With all its meltdowns (and very recent ones, too), Delta is hardly the airline that needs to be put on a pedestal for coping with ONE weather session. But thanks for the laugh anyway.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:15 pm

Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.
 
capejet
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:20 pm

Bottom line is DL became pro active and did something to make their operation much more dependable during the snow event at SEA. They deserve a lot of credit. Hope they keep it up.
 
WN732
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:56 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.


WN had no ops at AUS, Sunday evening-Thursday with a few cancels going into Friday morning. I believe NK was the first airline to get anything into or out of AUS. SAT was in similar shape and HOU was closed for less time because they had a smaller impact from ice/snow. DAL actually fared okay because they had decent deice equipment, but they were not completely spared from cancellations.
 
WayexTDI
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:19 am

Josh76040 wrote:
LOL

With all its meltdowns (and very recent ones, too), Delta is hardly the airline that needs to be put on a pedestal for coping with ONE weather session. But thanks for the laugh anyway.

Well, maybe this just shows that similar meltdowns are not attributed to some supposedly Delta-specific lack of preparedness and it's more than the systems are so tightly run that a small issue can quickly escalade to unbelievable proportions. It happened to DL, just happened to AS; has happened or will happen to others.

AS has been propped up on here as being the best ran airline; well, as evidenced, it can also quickly become a hot mess.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:21 am

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.

Actually, lately, it's been "not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is a hot mess".
 
Spetsnaz55
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:38 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:27 am

Yep Alaska canceled my flight last Friday evening right when the snow was starting to fall. Booked an identical flight with United same time and everything and landed safely.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:22 am

I think Alaska needs to invest in more automation and IT. They always say “we were the first US carrier to sell tickets online” but what have you done lately?
 
johns624
Posts: 4067
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:14 am

What is with this "newspeak"? It's no longer a storm, it's an event. Why can't people just speak normal English?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:17 am

Its general good karma do not gloat or poke at others misfortunes in these cases. Each airlines situation is all different and everyone experiences "a bad day" or "meltdown" as some like to say every now and then.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:41 am

My wife and mother-in-law left Nome last Saturday under blue skies. It wasn't until check-in when they were informed their flight to Seattle and then Los Angeles had been canceled due to the storm. It was so chaotic, the agents in Nome were only able to check their luggage as far as Anchorage and were told they would need to see customer service when they landed in Anchorage to be re-accommodated.
Anchorage was able to get them on a flight to Seattle 6 hours later than the original flight, and they had another 6-hour delay/layover in Seattle, which put them into Los Angeles with a 10+ hours delay. Then the 6am Seattle to Los Angeles flight canceled and they were put on the 7am flight instead. Well, even with the now 7-hour layover in Seattle, none of their luggage made it Los Angeles. Luckily the baggage office in Los Angeles was awesome, and their luggage made it in on the 2pm flight. This was the most stressful part of everything because the purpose for travel was to bring my mother-in-law to Los Angeles to catch a Philippine Airlines flight to Manila and so my wife had asked agents in both Anchorage and Seattle about their luggage and they were reassured it would be fine and would make it there with them. For all their hassle, my wife got a whopping $50 voucher.

And somewhere in the middle of all this, my wife got a message saying that due to weather in the pacific northwest, her Los Angeles to Las Vegas flight on Monday morning was canceled. But honestly, that seems like a cancellation of convenience. I tried calling customer service and even the Gold 75k line had a 9 hour wait. Seeing that the next Alaska flight to Las Vegas was 12 hours later than her original flight, I opted to just cancel the flight and book here on American.

I was watching all of this and monitoring their progress, and it certainly seemed to me like other airlines (delta et al) were running a much cleaner operation. I still don't understand what her LAX-LAS flight being canceled had to do with the weather in Seattle as their scheduled plane according to FlightAware had been nowhere near the pacific northwest in the prior 3 days.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:20 am

I don't really think anything in this pandemic is relevant data for the future. There are so many factors and reasons why no one is running normal ops. Its a unique time and i wouldn't think this means anything really against Alaska.
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:48 am

DLASFlyer wrote:
The Seattle Times took a look at Alaska vs. Delta hub operations during the recent snow event and spoke with both airlines. While AS obviously had more flights scheduled, it canceled a much higher percentage than DL. Delta canceled only 7 flights at SEA despite over a foot of snow, attributing its success to not relying on contractors and bringing in extra staff from other hubs ahead of the storm. A memo notes Delta was able to accommodate thousands of displaced passengers from two unnamed airlines.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... snowstorm/


Have a question and don’t take it wrong way. How did DL accommodate thousands of passengers from other carriers when they block middle seats? Did DL add flights or just start using middle seats? Seems odd unless their flights had very light loads. Just curious but job well done in limiting cancels.
 
alasizon
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Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:50 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't really think anything in this pandemic is relevant data for the future. There are so many factors and reasons why no one is running normal ops. Its a unique time and i wouldn't think this means anything really against Alaska.


The interesting piece is that a lot of the SEA meltdown was blamed on airfield conditions initially and if all things were equal on the north and south sides of the terminal complex, AS and DL should have posted similar cancellation ratios (with AS being a little higher due to SEA being the hub, not just another hub for them). AS seems to say there isn't enough room to deice but I'm not sure how much of a factor that actually played. If the conditions were somehow better on the DL side than the AS side of the terminal, then that will mean something for AS and something they will end up studying.

I'd be interested to see how many of DL's "operated" flights actually operated remotely on schedule too.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:00 pm

As noted in the article, Delta will often send volunteer "go teams" (for lack of a better term) to stations they know are going to be his with extreme weather or other operational hurdles.
 
kiowa
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Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:14 pm

HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
All I'm going to say...I spent 8 HRS and 56 MINS on phone hold for an AS representative yesterday - a week after the "snow event". Website said make changes on-line and when I tried, it said unable.



It seems like every corporation that I call starts with a recorded message blaming something for "unusual" high call volumes and then puts you on hold for a long time. --------then they give me the "opportunity" to participate in a survey.
 
ethernal
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:18 pm

TrafficCop wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
The Seattle Times took a look at Alaska vs. Delta hub operations during the recent snow event and spoke with both airlines. While AS obviously had more flights scheduled, it canceled a much higher percentage than DL. Delta canceled only 7 flights at SEA despite over a foot of snow, attributing its success to not relying on contractors and bringing in extra staff from other hubs ahead of the storm. A memo notes Delta was able to accommodate thousands of displaced passengers from two unnamed airlines.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... snowstorm/


Have a question and don’t take it wrong way. How did DL accommodate thousands of passengers from other carriers when they block middle seats? Did DL add flights or just start using middle seats? Seems odd unless their flights had very light loads. Just curious but job well done in limiting cancels.


Presumably Delta is not operating at 100% blocked-seat-adjusted load factors, so there is spare capacity. That ignores other demand characteristics - presumably O&D traffic from Seattle during this time was limited so that means that seats would have opened up as people no showed. This would allow them to pick up extra connecting passengers from Alaska.

They almost certainly didn't unblock seats. Not worth the PR hit/risk to help another carrier's passengers.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:32 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.

Actually, lately, it's been "not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is a hot mess".


Karma? Lol
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:33 pm

WN732 wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.


WN had no ops at AUS, Sunday evening-Thursday with a few cancels going into Friday morning. I believe NK was the first airline to get anything into or out of AUS. SAT was in similar shape and HOU was closed for less time because they had a smaller impact from ice/snow. DAL actually fared okay because they had decent deice equipment, but they were not completely spared from cancellations.


It kind of seems like AA and UA also didn't have that big of a mess, there were a lot of preemptive cancellations and with COVID there are tons of seats via other hubs to rebook connections if needed. Though clearly UA was operating at least to Cancun for sure out of IAH lol.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:39 pm

TrafficCop wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
The Seattle Times took a look at Alaska vs. Delta hub operations during the recent snow event and spoke with both airlines. While AS obviously had more flights scheduled, it canceled a much higher percentage than DL. Delta canceled only 7 flights at SEA despite over a foot of snow, attributing its success to not relying on contractors and bringing in extra staff from other hubs ahead of the storm. A memo notes Delta was able to accommodate thousands of displaced passengers from two unnamed airlines.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... snowstorm/


Have a question and don’t take it wrong way. How did DL accommodate thousands of passengers from other carriers when they block middle seats?


The OP's Seattle Times link points to hundreds, not thousands, being re-accommodated on DL.

Helda Durham, Delta’s director of operations at Sea-Tac, sent a memo to her team after the weather eased praising their success in keeping flights running.

Durham highlighted that her staff managed to get hundreds of non-Delta passengers to their destinations after their flights on two rival airlines were canceled. (A copy of the memo obtained by The Seattle Times redacted the names of the two airlines.)


DL avg load factors have been well below 67% but the trick is to have available seats on the right route and time, be it for weather re-accommodation off another carrier, or last-minute purchases.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:14 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Anyone have any data on how AA, WN and UA did in TX? ...and yeah, DL has had its shit show. Also, 7 flights to AS's "much more" isn't fair when AS is clearly bigger. What's the ratio?

Also, long hold times for a weather event? Didn't DL have horrible hold times for weeks due to lack of staffing during COVID reductions?

Bottom line: it happens... Not that a.net would let an opportunity go by without claiming DL is immaculate at all opportunity.


No hard data, but AA @ DFW is a sh|t show anytime there's a storm, so I suspect this storm was par for the course.
 
sxf24
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Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:20 pm

An appropriate comparison would be to DL's handling of simultaneous historic storms in ATL and DTW to AS' track record in SEA and PDX. When the cities your 2 largest stations are in are effectively shutdown, your response is going to be significantly different than a competitor whose 6th largest station is impacted.

How many flights did AA, UA and WN cancel in Texas during those weather events?
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:44 pm

kiowa wrote:
HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
All I'm going to say...I spent 8 HRS and 56 MINS on phone hold for an AS representative yesterday - a week after the "snow event". Website said make changes on-line and when I tried, it said unable.



It seems like every corporation that I call starts with a recorded message blaming something for "unusual" high call volumes and then puts you on hold for a long time. --------then they give me the "opportunity" to participate in a survey.


YES! All the time. And they blame coronavirus. When I called AS, they said wait time was 3-4 HRS (bad in itself) but it just kept going. I'm surprised I made it through. Usually it either hangs up on you right away or after a few hours.
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TrafficCop wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
The Seattle Times took a look at Alaska vs. Delta hub operations during the recent snow event and spoke with both airlines. While AS obviously had more flights scheduled, it canceled a much higher percentage than DL. Delta canceled only 7 flights at SEA despite over a foot of snow, attributing its success to not relying on contractors and bringing in extra staff from other hubs ahead of the storm. A memo notes Delta was able to accommodate thousands of displaced passengers from two unnamed airlines.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... snowstorm/



Have a question and don’t take it wrong way. How did DL accommodate thousands of passengers from other carriers when they block middle seats?


The OP's Seattle Times link points to hundreds, not thousands, being re-accommodated on DL.

Helda Durham, Delta’s director of operations at Sea-Tac, sent a memo to her team after the weather eased praising their success in keeping flights running.

Durham highlighted that her staff managed to get hundreds of non-Delta passengers to their destinations after their flights on two rival airlines were canceled. (A copy of the memo obtained by The Seattle Times redacted the names of the two airlines.)


DL avg load factors have been well below 67% but the trick is to have available seats on the right route and time, be it for weather re-accommodation off another carrier, or last-minute purchases.


That’s makes more sense. Big difference in numbers but not in what they did. Moving people is the important part.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:17 pm

sxf24 wrote:
An appropriate comparison would be to DL's handling of simultaneous historic storms in ATL and DTW to AS' track record in SEA and PDX. When the cities your 2 largest stations are in are effectively shutdown, your response is going to be significantly different than a competitor whose 6th largest station is impacted.


Perfect analogy. And by pre-canceling so many flights, AS was trying to get to a number that they felt they could effectively manage. There's not a lot of extra room to de-ice planes at SEA...AS has at their gates and in front of their hanger (assuming that area isn't already full with aircraft in for mx). That said, the whole city of Seattle comes to a stop in a winter snow storm...same with Portland and their notorious freezing rain. Try de-icing a plane with 1/2 inch or more coated in ice...the de-icing fluid just runs off of it. You basically have to crank up the heat in the hanger and park the plane in there for hours.
 
ChrisPBacon
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:18 pm

Interesting that DL slams the use of a vendor for deicing in SEA, but contracts the same vendor (IDS) in DTW....
 
Prost
Posts: 2672
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:50 pm

I think a problem in SEA is there aren’t large deicing pads near the ends of the runways like many midwestern airports have which really help the operation. You get the planes off the gates, then they wait in lines for the pads, get cleaned up, and they are on their way. Currently there isn’t the space for that in Seattle, so the gate areas are congested and it bunches things up. As the largest carrier in SEA, Alaska had the most headaches.
 
Rhodylee
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:45 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:07 pm

The article says that Delta cancelled 30% of their flights, which must be more than 7, right ?
 
Lootess
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:31 pm

While Delta has the experience of emergency ops after the power grid going out in ATL. But more importantly the brains of a Minnesota company called Northwest Airlines that has hubs in places where it snows often, normal events.

DTW has the large deicing pad over SEA, so the ops there makes it quick enough they run through it before takeoff line.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:02 pm

Rhodylee wrote:
The article says that Delta cancelled 30% of their flights, which must be more than 7, right ?

Yeah, the OP selectively quoted the article. DL canceled 30% of it's flights, but only 7 mainline flights.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:37 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
Rhodylee wrote:
The article says that Delta cancelled 30% of their flights, which must be more than 7, right ?

Yeah, the OP selectively quoted the article. DL canceled 30% of it's flights, but only 7 mainline flights.

Considering the majority of DL flights from SEA aren't mainline...that's a rather misleading statistic.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2230
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:21 am

AS always melts down at SEA or PDX in the snow. Always.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2623
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:07 am

ChrisPBacon wrote:
Interesting that DL slams the use of a vendor for deicing in SEA, but contracts the same vendor (IDS) in DTW....


At DTW, DL mainline is deiced by DL mainline. There are two pads and a myriad of closed bucket trucks, all DL owned.

IDS at DTW sprays a bunch of airlines, including DL connection carriers.
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:10 am

I think DL was in a good position to get a little PR lustre for this particular event in SEA - a focus/gateway that they deem important in the long term (even if it needs to be run at a loss). Anecdotally, I think they've been flying with excess capacity from MSP and SLC - even considering COVID/blocked middle. They probably even have the option to upgauge aircraft.

Considering the labor situation, getting staff in is likely no problem, pilots a bit harder.

They didn't save the planet, but credit due to them for being proactive.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:23 am

chrisair wrote:
AS always melts down at SEA or PDX in the snow. Always.

Seattle just melts down when it snows.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:43 pm

Lootess wrote:
While Delta has the experience of emergency ops after the power grid going out in ATL. But more importantly the brains of a Minnesota company called Northwest Airlines that has hubs in places where it snows often

As opposed to...Alaska?
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2642
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:20 pm

luckyone wrote:
Lootess wrote:
While Delta has the experience of emergency ops after the power grid going out in ATL. But more importantly the brains of a Minnesota company called Northwest Airlines that has hubs in places where it snows often

As opposed to...Alaska?

What's AS's magnitude of ops at ANC vs SEA/PDX? My $$ is not even 25%. They had a massive meltdown at their two biggest hubs because they weren't proactive...pure and simple.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:51 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Lootess wrote:
While Delta has the experience of emergency ops after the power grid going out in ATL. But more importantly the brains of a Minnesota company called Northwest Airlines that has hubs in places where it snows often

As opposed to...Alaska?

What's AS's magnitude of ops at ANC vs SEA/PDX? My $$ is not even 25%. They had a massive meltdown at their two biggest hubs because they weren't proactive...pure and simple.

While true, that wasn’t the statement made by the user. Alaska has extensive experience operating in cold environments and is at no disadvantage to Delta in that regard. Infrastructure may be a different matter.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10034
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:55 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
Rhodylee wrote:
The article says that Delta cancelled 30% of their flights, which must be more than 7, right ?

Yeah, the OP selectively quoted the article. DL canceled 30% of it's flights, but only 7 mainline flights.


You can carp about mainline vs. regional, but looking at the Seattle Times reference for Saturday, AS + regionals cancelled 81% and DL + DL Connection cancelled 30%. That's a stark difference.

We get the rationalization from an AS spokeperson 'But but but... they cancelled regional ops in favor of mainline!' Really, that person in charge of strategic performance?! What's wrong with prioritizing bigger planes (more people get where they want to go) and longer stage lengths? Hey, I understand that they may have twenty people who want to get home to Wenatchee, but if they're constrained by number of departures per hour due to de-ice, runway, or taxi passes, go big and run the 739s to LAX/LAS/MCO.

You get more rationalizations about airport land area. Sure, ATL is bigger - but the flight count (2019 'normal' anyway) is a lot bigger, too.

Excuses - not performance. As for Seattle melting down in snow - you got an example how it's possible to melt down a little less.
 
User avatar
smithbs
Posts: 578
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:02 pm

SEAflyer97 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
AS always melts down at SEA or PDX in the snow. Always.

Seattle just melts down when it snows.


The region invests as little as it can in dealing with snow. They figure that it happens rarely, and can just eat the disaster when it does happen rather than spend money to deal with it. As such, assets such as snow plows are thinly spread.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2814
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

You get more rationalizations about airport land area. Sure, ATL is bigger - but the flight count (2019 'normal' anyway) is a lot bigger, too.

Excuses - not performance. As for Seattle melting down in snow - you got an example how it's possible to melt down a little less.


Atlanta isn’t very good in the snow either. Unlike Delta’s hubs in DTW, MSP, and SLC, there are no specially built deicing pads at ATL and it shows on the rare deicing days at ATL.

Still, DL doesn’t cancel 80% of operations when it snows in ATL. A snow storm in SEA is a totally predictable event and AS needs to figure out a way to handle the next one better.
 
B757Forever
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Delta vs. Alaska During Seattle Snow

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:06 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

You get more rationalizations about airport land area. Sure, ATL is bigger - but the flight count (2019 'normal' anyway) is a lot bigger, too.

Excuses - not performance. As for Seattle melting down in snow - you got an example how it's possible to melt down a little less.


Atlanta isn’t very good in the snow either. Unlike Delta’s hubs in DTW, MSP, and SLC, there are no specially built deicing pads at ATL and it shows on the rare deicing days at ATL.

Still, DL doesn’t cancel 80% of operations when it snows in ATL. A snow storm in SEA is a totally predictable event and AS needs to figure out a way to handle the next one better.


DL has a large specially built deicing pad in ATL. It was completed about three years ago. It's on the north side of the field.

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