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Erau82
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AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:36 pm

 
SPREE34
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:01 am

Hummm,........there's no live fire in the Mount Dora MOA/ATCAA. The ZAB freq West of Des Moines above FL260 is 133.05, or 128.225 if the Ultra-Hi is open. FL260 and below is 127.85, but due to sector shapes it's not likely that would be combined up. Just sayin.......
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:05 am

Creepy.
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CWL757
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:10 am

Meh, just another alien. Shame they can't see the difference between an A330 and A320 cockpit though.
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alfa164
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:15 am

Erau82 wrote:


Probably flying over Area 51...

;)
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
visual8L
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:56 am

And no cell phone image? He probably took two selfies doing the walk around and a pic of his macchiato. But not the UFO?
‘Agree to disagree’ is generally suggested by the person who insists on remaining the asshole.
 
LTEN11
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:03 am

alfa164 wrote:
Erau82 wrote:


Probably flying over Area 51...

;)


Nowhere near Area 51 :shhh:
 
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n901wa
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:16 am

Hmmm. Is Tacit Blue flying again? :) Son of Tacit Blue?
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:30 am

The aliens trying to decide which plane to cause an engine failure on next... :)
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Do not go gentle into that good night ...
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Chuska
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:59 am

That first photo looking out from within the cockpit shows some pretty nice beechfront property here in New Mexico!
 
hamiltondaniel
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:04 am

Erau82 wrote:
Saw this today from 'The Drive'


Sigh...I used to sort of respect Rogoway's writing.

Look. The "encounters US Navy pilots had with anamolous objects off the eastern seaboard" have already been explained.

"Gyro" is lens flare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Btns91W5J8&t=7s

"Go Fast" is a bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLyEO0jNt6M&t=20s

Whatever this was, it was, almost certainly, also not exotic. There is a non-zero but .0001% chance it's a military aircraft buzzing civilian airliners in broad daylight. There is a truly-zero chance it's aliens.

The truth is out there. And it's probably boring.
 
jmc1975
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:04 am

LTEN11 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Erau82 wrote:


Probably flying over Area 51...

;)


Nowhere near Area 51 :shhh:

C’mon man! Look...they were flying over another state that begins with the letter ‘N’.
.......
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:23 am

I wonder if this was what they were seeing? This is currently in the USAF's test & eval competition for the LCAAT program. This has a ceiling of nearly 45,000 ft. and cruises at Mach 0.85. It could have been doing a high altitude, cross country flight above the normal flight levels to test its ability to evade radar tracking at high altitudes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_XQ-58_Valkyrie

Here's Boeing's contestant being developed in Australia: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... man-drone/
 
btfarrwm
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:40 am

AA confirmed the audio recordings as authentic and the FBI is investigating.
 
Chuska
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:01 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
AA confirmed the audio recordings as authentic and the FBI is investigating.


Just made the cover of the Albuquerque Journal this morning, Feb 25. Rapidly developing news.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:33 pm

hamiltondaniel wrote:
Erau82 wrote:
Saw this today from 'The Drive'


Sigh...I used to sort of respect Rogoway's writing.

Look. The "encounters US Navy pilots had with anamolous objects off the eastern seaboard" have already been explained.

"Gyro" is lens flare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Btns91W5J8&t=7s

"Go Fast" is a bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLyEO0jNt6M&t=20s

Whatever this was, it was, almost certainly, also not exotic. There is a non-zero but .0001% chance it's a military aircraft buzzing civilian airliners in broad daylight. There is a truly-zero chance it's aliens.

The truth is out there. And it's probably boring.


Both of those (if you buy what they are saying) were from enhanced viewing devices that leaves up to some interpretation.

The idea that in clear day, and visually spotted, that an airline pilot would mistake a bird or a lens flare for what they are seeing is highly unlikely.

Not that I think it is a UFO in the extra terrestrial sense, but it was likely a military device. Let’s just hope it is ours and not someone else’s. I.e Russia Avangard
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
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Aaron747
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:51 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
hamiltondaniel wrote:
Erau82 wrote:
Saw this today from 'The Drive'


Sigh...I used to sort of respect Rogoway's writing.

Look. The "encounters US Navy pilots had with anamolous objects off the eastern seaboard" have already been explained.

"Gyro" is lens flare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Btns91W5J8&t=7s

"Go Fast" is a bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLyEO0jNt6M&t=20s

Whatever this was, it was, almost certainly, also not exotic. There is a non-zero but .0001% chance it's a military aircraft buzzing civilian airliners in broad daylight. There is a truly-zero chance it's aliens.

The truth is out there. And it's probably boring.


Both of those (if you buy what they are saying) were from enhanced viewing devices that leaves up to some interpretation.

The idea that in clear day, and visually spotted, that an airline pilot would mistake a bird or a lens flare for what they are seeing is highly unlikely.

Not that I think it is a UFO in the extra terrestrial sense, but it was likely a military device. Let’s just hope it is ours and not someone else’s. I.e Russia Avangard


Perhaps you are right, but in recalling Cdr. Fravor's account of his crew's experience near Baja, how would a Russian glider zoom climb from the ocean to FL300 and above, respond evasively to intercept, vanish and suddenly reappear on radar at their CAP point miles away moments later? Either they and the radar operators in the Nimitz group are liars, or the Russians have something waaaaaay beyond Avangard.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
hamiltondaniel
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Either they and the radar operators in the Nimitz group are liars, or the Russians have something waaaaaay beyond Avangard.


That's an either/or fallacy. There's another option you're not considering:

People, even USN radar operators, are fallible, and given to misinterpretation of data, especially in groups. "Holy crap! DId you hear what Seaman Dave saw on his scope?! Here it is again!"

Perception is flawed. Machines make mistakes. People don't know how to deal with machines making mistakes. Misperception is socially reinforced and spreads like a virus.

Let's do an experiment - it's a test of perception. Click the link below, and while watching the video, count the number of ball passes the team in white makes. We'll all count, and we'll see if we all get the same number. Remember: count the passes of the white team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfA3ivLK_tE

See?

Just because you have a radar screen in front of you doesn't mean you're capable of perfect perception.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:31 pm

hamiltondaniel wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Either they and the radar operators in the Nimitz group are liars, or the Russians have something waaaaaay beyond Avangard.


That's an either/or fallacy. There's another option you're not considering:

People, even USN radar operators, are fallible, and given to misinterpretation of data, especially in groups. "Holy crap! DId you hear what Seaman Dave saw on his scope?! Here it is again!"

Perception is flawed. Machines make mistakes. People don't know how to deal with machines making mistakes. Misperception is socially reinforced and spreads like a virus.

Let's do an experiment - it's a test of perception. Click the link below, and while watching the video, count the number of ball passes the team in white makes. We'll all count, and we'll see if we all get the same number. Remember: count the passes of the white team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfA3ivLK_tE

See?

Just because you have a radar screen in front of you doesn't mean you're capable of perfect perception.


I agree, witnesses are often unreliable, especially untrained observers. I also agree that equipment can malfunction. That still doesn't explain what multiple Hornet drivers saw climbing from the ocean and doing incredible maneuvers amongst them. Of course it's easy to discount the radar folks when we can't see the data ourselves - but combat pilots are considered trained observers.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
hamiltondaniel
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:37 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
The idea that in clear day, and visually spotted, that an airline pilot would mistake a bird or a lens flare for what they are seeing is highly unlikely.


It's not highly unlikely - it's highly likely. Pilots mistake visual phenomena all the time. It happens enough it's part of flight training:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/spatiald_visillus.pdf

It's not just limited to spatial errors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_studies_of_UFOs

In summary, several studies, notably that by Hendry, find "honest misidentifications of prosaic phenomena." Lots of people, including pilots, see things that aren't there or mis-see things that are there. "Hendry attributed most of these to inexperience or misperception."
 
hamiltondaniel
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
...but combat pilots are considered trained observers.


And yet that doesn't make combat pilots immune from making mistakes. Do they make fewer mistakes than, say, me, a random person with only a Private Pilot license and 200 hours? I don't know. Probably, but I don't know that there's ever been a good study on the question.

That doesn't mean they never make mistakes. Indeed, upthread I linked to several videos where we see trained combat pilots - in both cases, two of them in the same aircraft! - making some very basic mistakes about what they're seeing.

If I were a cynic, I'd say the Navy is encouraging the narrative that something unexplained is going on by releasing these videos, because the alternative is having to admit that even highly-trained combat pilots sometimes chase lens flares around the sky in $70 million taxpayer-owned war machines.

Good thing I'm not a cynic.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:48 pm

hamiltondaniel wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:
The idea that in clear day, and visually spotted, that an airline pilot would mistake a bird or a lens flare for what they are seeing is highly unlikely.


It's not highly unlikely - it's highly likely. Pilots mistake visual phenomena all the time. It happens enough it's part of flight training:

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/spatiald_visillus.pdf

It's not just limited to spatial errors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_studies_of_UFOs

In summary, several studies, notably that by Hendry, find "honest misidentifications of prosaic phenomena." Lots of people, including pilots, see things that aren't there or mis-see things that are there. "Hendry attributed most of these to inexperience or misperception."


That is also true, of course. But throughout the process of elimination in evaluating phenomena, there has always been a 5-10% remainder that are not prosaic. And when evaluating reports made by pilots in particular, the threshold may be somewhat higher, if going by research NASA Ames and NARCAP have done. The fact that a majority of observations are prosaic does not logically dictate that all subsequent reports will also be so.
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Aaron747
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:51 pm

hamiltondaniel wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
...but combat pilots are considered trained observers.


And yet that doesn't make combat pilots immune from making mistakes. Do they make fewer mistakes than, say, me, a random person with only a Private Pilot license and 200 hours? I don't know. Probably, but I don't know that there's ever been a good study on the question.

That doesn't mean they never make mistakes. Indeed, upthread I linked to several videos where we see trained combat pilots - in both cases, two of them in the same aircraft! - making some very basic mistakes about what they're seeing.

If I were a cynic, I'd say the Navy is encouraging the narrative that something unexplained is going on by releasing these videos, because the alternative is having to admit that even highly-trained combat pilots sometimes chase lens flares around the sky in $70 million taxpayer-owned war machines.

Good thing I'm not a cynic.


I am fairly cynical, and that's a legitimate narrative at face value. But it is also unlikely a carrier would send *multiple* crews after a lens flare in the space of one afternoon (resulting in interruption / cancellation of a planned combat training exercise) and then sit on the report for several years.
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Spiderguy252
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:55 pm

Everybody knows all the aliens only ever visit America anyway.
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Prost
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:31 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Everybody knows all the aliens only ever visit America anyway.

Visiting the family.
 
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Veigar
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:38 pm

Made the mistake of scrolling down to the comments section.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:58 am

Veigar wrote:
Made the mistake of scrolling down to the comments section.


Way better than Youtube, at least ;)
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SumChristianus
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Re: AA Flight Sees Object While Flying in New Mexico

Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:01 am

Prost wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
Everybody knows all the aliens only ever visit America anyway.

Visiting the family.

Hey, but if they're foreign visitors from another planet, what are they doing buzzing around with no distancing around our passenger planes? Don't they know they need to quarantine for two weeks? :lol:
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Do not go gentle into that good night ...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light

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