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UAUA
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Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:07 am

The A380 might return to service and the B747-8 will be around for sometime. When they retire will they still have first class in the long run? Let's say on the B777-9?
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:13 am

Ask yourself whether there will be demand for 1st class on a route like FRA-NYC or whether passengers will decide business class is good enough
 
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seahawk
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:17 am

Who knows? It is quite possible that the typical customers will mostly move to private jets.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:23 am

Yes. There will always be a market for senior executives and celebrities to distinguish themselves from the 'riff raff' of business class with the flag carrier of the biggest economy in Europe.
 
Noshow
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:40 am

If they keep it they might restrict it to some limited premium routes. Like 747-8 routes only or similar.
As they plan to upgrade their long range business class with the 777-9 I don't see first class staying. It will be more like a few front premium seats within business class might get earmarked for premium passengers.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 am

Given how far behind they are on the hard product compared to the competition, it wouldn't surprise me. I remember going from a Singapore 777 to a Lufthansa A380 on a business class trip, and being surprised at how the Lufthansa first class seat was smaller than what Singapore offers for its business class passengers.

But knowing how Spohr the Despoiler works, he will probably roll out euro-business and BoB on transatlantic flights anyway.
 
seb76
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:15 am

The business class seats of Lufthansa are bad enough in terms of room privacy to make first class valuable for some.
Companies like Singapore Airlines, ANA, Emirates, etc... on the other hand have already such a good business class product that first class is unnecessary to many (I don't need it)... but then again, their first class product is also in another league than LH's first and they serve markets where plenty of wealthy people can afford it.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:22 am

I can not see them giving up First Class, just like BA would never let it go, it is a status thing. I do see it being limited to certain routes and maybe just 4 seats in a roomy cabin area, for that exclusive market. Also that large investment they made in the First Class terminal at FRA, wow!
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Gremlinzzzz
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:38 am

seb76 wrote:
The business class seats of Lufthansa are bad enough in terms of room privacy to make first class valuable for some.
Companies like Singapore Airlines, ANA, Emirates, etc... on the other hand have already such a good business class product that first class is unnecessary to many (I don't need it)... but then again, their first class product is also in another league than LH's first and they serve markets where plenty of wealthy people can afford it.

Emirates has a good product on the A380. The 777 is even worse than what Lufthansa has.

On topic, I speculate we will see a small first class cabin.
 
jfk777
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:32 pm

Lufthansa is an airline which will retain some level First Class, their home is a very rich country where a market still exists for the product. Their fleet mix will always have long haul planes of various sizes, their largest will have First Class.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:49 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
I can not see them giving up First Class, just like BA would never let it go, it is a status thing. I do see it being limited to certain routes and maybe just 4 seats in a roomy cabin area, for that exclusive market. Also that large investment they made in the First Class terminal at FRA, wow!



They did say that F would not be on their 779s but a new business seat would. Guess would leave just the 748s and the 380s to retain F.
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:18 pm

There will always be a market for first class, maybe on limited routes and or in smaller cabins. I know enough people that just buy the highest cabin available regardless of what the seat 10ft behind is like.

seahawk wrote:
Who knows? It is quite possible that the typical customers will mostly move to private jets.


Except the price difference between international First Class and flying private is a truly enormous gulf. The walk up first class fare is between 5%-10% the cost of private on a G-V.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
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seahawk
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:17 pm

If you fly alone, once you take your team with you. Add that you can use more airports and do not have to connect.
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:49 pm

seahawk wrote:
If you fly alone, once you take your team with you. Add that you can use more airports and do not have to connect.


My rule of private flying is to avoid anything beyond 50% capacity otherwise it really isn't that comfortable (Unless we're talking BBJs, ACJs, etc.). Longhaul business class is more comfortable than sharing a G-V with 10 other people. At 50% capacity you're still WAY different cost wise.

I can see a business case for flying a group of people to more remote spots with limited air service/greater connection requirements.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
Runway765
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:35 pm

Why does F still exist on any airline anymore?

Not only do I see F largely going the way of the dodo, but I expect International J cabins will get smaller in the coming years.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:19 am

fbgdavidson wrote:
seahawk wrote:
If you fly alone, once you take your team with you. Add that you can use more airports and do not have to connect.


My rule of private flying is to avoid anything beyond 50% capacity otherwise it really isn't that comfortable (Unless we're talking BBJs, ACJs, etc.). Longhaul business class is more comfortable than sharing a G-V with 10 other people. At 50% capacity you're still WAY different cost wise.

I can see a business case for flying a group of people to more remote spots with limited air service/greater connection requirements.


In the end that depends on the goals you have for the decision. I have seen a lot customers moving towards faster connections and less contact with unknown persons.
 
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conaly
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Re: Will LH keep first class in the long run?

Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:17 am

Scotron12 wrote:
They did say that F would not be on their 779s but a new business seat would. Guess would leave just the 748s and the 380s to retain F.


They said there won't a first-class on the first delivered 779s, that are supposed to replace the 747-400 (that don't have first class cabins). Nowhere it was mentioned, that there won't ever be a LH 779 with a F-cabin. That was years ago however, in that time the market looked different and there were no plans for retiring the A380 yet.

As all A346 and all A380 are all grounded and probably won't ever return to service, the 747-8 is at the moment the only plane using a first class. So I'd assume they will sooner or later announce a first for either an existing type or the 779 or 789. Can't imagine they'd completely abandon first. On some premium routes it always is quite full (in regular demand times).


I actually do have an inactive booking for FRA-HND and back in first from last year. However, as I neither can enter Japan, nor there is a currently a 747-8 used an the route, I still can't use it. For the summer flight plan, the schedule lists the 747-8 again for the route, but somehow I am not convinced I can ever use that ticket...
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