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thebunkerparodi
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Lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:04 am

Hello, Do you think they studied more concept than just the one they released (link, I might do the first one on a revell A320 neo https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/exclusi ... ed-yellow/ ) ?

Thanks for your answer!
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
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747classic
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:56 am

IMO the old Lufthansa livery was an iconic legacy livery, tied to a reliable, luxury airline.
Especially the blue - yellow combination in the tail was clearly visble at every outstation, between the tails of other airlines.
Introducing a completely new (not very outstanding) dark blue livery seems not very cost effective, seen the loss of instant recognition, the old livery created.

As flight crew at a competing airline (KL) we often were standing side by side at the major airports , all over the world.
Luckely for us, my airline decided only to change their livery at minor points over time and is still easy to recognize.
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B757Forever
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:37 pm

I'm not a fan. The old livery was so iconic and tasteful. On the new livery, you change the graphics just a bit and you get FedEx...
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Antarius
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:46 pm

I think they studied it, but ended up choosing the bean counter answer.

Reading that interview, that's the stuff I'm used to getting in reports from a body farm consulting company like Accenture or PWC.
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TWA772LR
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:52 pm

I remember a pretty nice concept livery they had when all of this was going down. It had the German flag spam the top of the tail similar to ELs retro scheme. It was very modern with a timeless retro twist. I can't find it though.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:06 pm

Antarius wrote:
I think they studied it, but ended up choosing the bean counter answer.

Reading that interview, that's the stuff I'm used to getting in reports from a body farm consulting company like Accenture or PWC.

Agree 100%.

The designer says the removal of yellow makes the white crane more prominent, and he's wrong. It just makes the crane blend in with the white of the rest of the fuselage. The yellow used to draw your attention, now nothing draws your attention.

It's amazing the designer is so arrogant, it seems he's convinced himself to never consider the idea that his thinking was less than perfect.

The bean counters liked the idea of one less color to paint, the designers either consciously or subconsciously bent to their desire.

The result is a big step in the wrong direction.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm

Revelation wrote:
Antarius wrote:
I think they studied it, but ended up choosing the bean counter answer.

Reading that interview, that's the stuff I'm used to getting in reports from a body farm consulting company like Accenture or PWC.

Agree 100%.

The designer says the removal of yellow makes the white crane more prominent, and he's wrong. It just makes the crane blend in with the white of the rest of the fuselage. The yellow used to draw your attention, now nothing draws your attention.

It's amazing the designer is so arrogant, it seems he's convinced himself to never consider the idea that his thinking was less than perfect.

The bean counters liked the idea of one less color to paint, the designers either consciously or subconsciously bent to their desire.

The result is a big step in the wrong direction.


What's most telling is that after all this supposed planning and work, they unveiled a blue color that had to be changed 2 weeks later.

How well could it have been tested?
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:38 pm

Current livery is very ugly and boring. Totally wrong direction by Lufthansa. BIG TURN OFF!!!!! Who in their right mind would be thinking of such and ugly livery. YuCK!!!
 
Starfuryt
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:47 pm

Well good thing they reflected LH's position as a premium carrier with a truly premium Eurowhite livery. LH's yellow was iconic and it stood out from the rest, now it's just same boring old white with some color slapped on the tail.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:19 pm

Agreed with you all.

My two issues -

1. They updated/changed the colors with the iconic crane while leaving alone the boring Lufthansa titles on the front of the plane. I get both had been used for decades, but if you are going to change one then it should be the titles.

2. His preoccupation with portraying a ‘premium’ airline moving forward is bs. This new design isn’t premium. It’s boring and shows that the airline wants to minimize costs related to paint and weight. Lastly, what ‘premium’ passenger gives a sh*t about the design on the plane? Very few.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm

DalDC9Bos wrote:
Agreed with you all.

My two issues -

1. They updated/changed the colors with the iconic crane while leaving alone the boring Lufthansa titles on the front of the plane. I get both had been used for decades, but if you are going to change one then it should be the titles.

2. His preoccupation with portraying a ‘premium’ airline moving forward is bs. This new design isn’t premium. It’s boring and shows that the airline wants to minimize costs related to paint and weight. Lastly, what ‘premium’ passenger gives a sh*t about the design on the plane? Very few.

Yep, the whole 'blue is posh, yellow is tosh' rationale seems to me to be psycho-babble that he's convinced himself is true so he can come to terms with bowing to the cheap color scheme that the bean counters favor.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:27 pm

Lack of yellow helps with display on websites and app. Makes the whole design more "simple" and less intricate. Much like the departure from Saul Bass designs. Perhaps that's good for younger generations. As for many other customers, keeping the previous livery or even going back to the 1980s blue cheatline would have been preferrable. For them, the new logo is just one more move that signals the departure from full service towards something that's closer to perhaps US Airways where the threat of minute cutbacks that ultimately add up is always looming in the background. My personal favorite will always be the 1960s livery, classy font, good color combination. For example, arriving at TXL on UA in 2019 we pulled up next to the LH retrojet A321, tons of people downright stared at it when deplaning and took pictures while we waited for our luggage. That magic just doesn't isn't there with their regular boring livery.

Agree that more Eurowhite doesn't convery premium, especially given the emergence of Germanwings and Eurowings within the group, and even SN livery looks very similar. And for those of us who flew on the old Sabena, few if any folks would consider SN to have become more premium, and the "simplified" livery is inevitablty tied to that low cost image. Also, if the font covering the windows is "too loud" for LH and doesn't convey "premium", then why did LH Group do that for LX and OS? LH continues to not know what it wants, one cannot be hip and modern and at the same time as being a true full service carrier. AB tried that.

In its core market, LH is the carrier of choice to people who don't want FR/U2 shorthaul and people who don't want DE/EW/WK longhaul. They want a traditional full service carrier and are willing to pay $100-200 more in long haul economy for getting the meal and the suitcase included. They were OK with something like Jump, i.e. take out F and add more Economy or Premium Economy, but leave the outside of the plane recognizable as LH. Similar story with short haul where you have snacks and free beverages along with lounge access on LH. Bad C short haul hard product but at least that's combined with a good soft product. That was OK with those customers because the price difference was accordingly with C being only $100 more on many short haul routes (and easily upgradable) and Economy being perhaps $50 more than FR/U2, in return for including a suitcase, choice of seats, snacks and drinks included, and lounge access.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:36 pm

For my taste they went in the wrong direction with their new CI. It's too dark and boring. Uninspired sort of. Bit like another version of the Airbus house huge blue tail. Giving up the LH company color yellow after 100 years is plain wrong. But looking at those other candidate designs those are even more ugly. Who created this terrible selection to pick from?
There are global brand designers available that could come up with something better. A cool modern avantgarde CI would be good for LH. Today a band along the windows would look "newish" again after everybody went eurowhite for so long.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:40 pm

It is however a matter of taste. I find the new livery quite elegant and modern and, in my opinion, it makes the old livery look, well, old. It´s not an exciting livery for sure but it will remain modern for a long time, whereas the more intricate design tend to age quickly. Sure, LH could have done better but I am sure they will have attracted as many critics as with this one. Reading comments when the new livery came out and, indeed reading comments about every new livery from any airline, it seems like people just love to complain and say "the old one was better". Anyway, in trying to answer the OP question (since he didn´t ask if we like the new livery), I am sure they went through a lengthy process that involved several variations and proposals (some of which you can see in the link he himself posted). A new livery is not just about how pretty or cool it looks. There are a lot of factors to keep into considerations.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:52 pm

It’s hard to believe that the LH folks spewing the new livery drivel would actually believe the nonsense they’re saying.

LH is the latest cheap, boring Eurowhite bean counter paint job. The irony is that the ULCCs like Ryanair, Wizz, EasyJet, etc are the ones that don’t have bland...plus KL.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:10 pm

There is a point that one needs to get used to new stuff before judging about it.
But after some time has passed and having seen the new colors in real life they still underwhelm. They remain as bad as initially perceived. If you look at the fantastic 1970s/1980s corporate CI of LH how elegant they were. Up to designer cutlery and elegant crew uniforms. They should bring back this elegance but do they want that?
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:20 pm

What they could/should have done in my opinion to update the livery is the following:


1) Get rid of the grey belly and engines and paint them white too


2) Keep the cirkel yellow and the bird blue, but remove the double ring around it (like they have done with the current livery)

3) Keep the same shade of blue as with the old livery, because the current color looks like it's black.
4) New size/font of the titles are better than the old (except for the color)
5) Do not let the paint of the tail continue onto the fuselage.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
It's amazing the designer is so arrogant, it seems he's convinced himself to never consider the idea that his thinking was less than perfect.


Unfortunately, that kind of ego happens a LOT in the branding/marketing/graphic design world.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:38 pm

ua900 wrote:
Lack of yellow helps with display on websites and app. Makes the whole design more "simple" and less intricate. Much like the departure from Saul Bass designs. Perhaps that's good for younger generations. As for many other customers, keeping the previous livery or even going back to the 1980s blue cheatline would have been preferrable. For them, the new logo is just one more move that signals the departure from full service towards something that's closer to perhaps US Airways where the threat of minute cutbacks that ultimately add up is always looming in the background. My personal favorite will always be the 1960s livery, classy font, good color combination. For example, arriving at TXL on UA in 2019 we pulled up next to the LH retrojet A321, tons of people downright stared at it when deplaning and took pictures while we waited for our luggage. That magic just doesn't isn't there with their regular boring livery.

Agree that more Eurowhite doesn't convery premium, especially given the emergence of Germanwings and Eurowings within the group, and even SN livery looks very similar. And for those of us who flew on the old Sabena, few if any folks would consider SN to have become more premium, and the "simplified" livery is inevitablty tied to that low cost image. Also, if the font covering the windows is "too loud" for LH and doesn't convey "premium", then why did LH Group do that for LX and OS? LH continues to not know what it wants, one cannot be hip and modern and at the same time as being a true full service carrier. AB tried that.

In its core market, LH is the carrier of choice to people who don't want FR/U2 shorthaul and people who don't want DE/EW/WK longhaul. They want a traditional full service carrier and are willing to pay $100-200 more in long haul economy for getting the meal and the suitcase included. They were OK with something like Jump, i.e. take out F and add more Economy or Premium Economy, but leave the outside of the plane recognizable as LH. Similar story with short haul where you have snacks and free beverages along with lounge access on LH. Bad C short haul hard product but at least that's combined with a good soft product. That was OK with those customers because the price difference was accordingly with C being only $100 more on many short haul routes (and easily upgradable) and Economy being perhaps $50 more than FR/U2, in return for including a suitcase, choice of seats, snacks and drinks included, and lounge access.

Indeed, they have an identity crisis. They seem to want to be everything to everybody but that just dilutes the message. They say the current livery makes the crane more visible, but nope, it just is another splosh of eurowhite on a blackish blue background that any third rate carrier could have come up with. It feels like it was conceived by a committee full of middle managers.
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Antarius wrote:
It's amazing the designer is so arrogant, it seems he's convinced himself to never consider the idea that his thinking was less than perfect.


I have yet to listen to or read about a (styling) designer who doesn’t have their head up their ass. I work in the auto industry and it’s pretty bad there too. Just look at BMW’s response to claims that their new car (4-series) looks like a beaver.
 
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:49 pm

It is definitely a matter of taste. The new colours aren't particularly striking, but definitely a more elegant and modern look than the old livery. And traditional darker, cooler colours represent characteristics such as elegance, class, and security. That's what they were aiming for.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:55 pm

It reads that the designers convinced themselves that Yellow cannot be a premium colour. Their ego was also hurt by not being able to change the location or font of the titles. The rest of the design all stems from that and the current trend across the branding world towards very flat, monochromatic logos with simple typefaces. Flat, monochromatic logos work better on digital & mobile devices apparently. You know the ones with 4K+ OLED screens that are getting ever larger, brighter and higher resolution.

I don’t mind the new livery. It does look smart and clean, in a monochromatic way. The white flight surfaces and pylons look great and help give some unique character to the livery.
 
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seahawk
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:18 pm

They did not do a new livery, they did a complete brand overhaul and there it is a big step forward.
 
Antarius
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:16 pm

Caymanair wrote:
It is definitely a matter of taste. The new colours aren't particularly striking, but definitely a more elegant and modern look than the old livery. And traditional darker, cooler colours represent characteristics such as elegance, class, and security. That's what they were aiming for.


I don't disagree that their old livery was dated and the brand could use a refresh. My issue is that they didn't do a very good job.

There's a middle ground between no change and whatever LH came up with,where they could be elegant, classy and unique while not being boring.
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thebunkerparodi
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:22 am

First: I don't think eurowhite is boring/bland, I think it's verry good at showing the outline of the aircraft

Second: I didn't wanted this thread to transform into a "new lufthansa livery hate fest', I only want information regarding the concept

Voila, and I'm going to say that I don't think it's a bad livery at all,I don't mind the crane being white, more in link with the fuselage color and it work well with the darker blue for me
 
Noshow
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:51 am

It is not a hate fest to not like it. Some corporate identities just work and some don't. This is at least not a clear winner. It's strange to want to top a signature livery with this mediocre design.
 
aw70
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:57 am

ua900 wrote:
Lack of yellow helps with display on websites and app.


Actually, that is not necessarily true: it all depends on how the yellow is being used. Somewhat ironically, blue is actually the really difficult colour to work with accurately on a screen, as saturated dark shades in particular are often skirting the gamut of computer displays.

And not even only on screens: the fiasco with the new shade of blue they chose, and which turned out greenish under overcast skies, was a clear indicator that the team which did the new livery design was a bunch of arrogant amateurs. I know which software they used for the design previews, and anyone with a clue about these things would have been aware that said rendering software is a great piece of kit... for a lot of things, but not for previewing colour appearance under varying illumination.

The saddest thing of it all is that the people who are responsible for that horrible re-design will never suffer any career consequences for coming up with this garbage. All it takes is enough ego, and you get away with pretty much everything.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:08 am

aw70 wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Lack of yellow helps with display on websites and app.


All it takes is enough ego, and you get away with pretty much everything.


Yep. :yes: :yes: :yes:
That is corporate world for you. It's all about that. Not about actual knowledge.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:42 pm

seahawk wrote:
They did not do a new livery, they did a complete brand overhaul and there it is a big step forward.


You mean a big step in the wrong direction. They basically screwed up a perfectly good brand. It needed an update, but not an overhaul.

The best solution at this point is to revert the brand overhaul to what they previously had, and work their way up from that. The new exposure is just crap, I got no other words for it. It belongs in the trashcan, not on an airplane.

Revelation wrote:
Antarius wrote:
I think they studied it, but ended up choosing the bean counter answer.

Reading that interview, that's the stuff I'm used to getting in reports from a body farm consulting company like Accenture or PWC.

Agree 100%.

The designer says the removal of yellow makes the white crane more prominent, and he's wrong. It just makes the crane blend in with the white of the rest of the fuselage. The yellow used to draw your attention, now nothing draws your attention.

It's amazing the designer is so arrogant, it seems he's convinced himself to never consider the idea that his thinking was less than perfect.

The bean counters liked the idea of one less color to paint, the designers either consciously or subconsciously bent to their desire.

The result is a big step in the wrong direction.


I couldn't have said it better. The designer made a few wrong assumptions and used those as the basics for his design. The thought that he could have been wrong in his assumptions never entered his mind. This proves that he's not a good designer. A good designer always doubts himself, always tries to figure out if his assumptions were right and if perhaps he should have worked from another perspective.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:48 pm

PS in another thread I recently made this post:

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I was playing with Photoshop for a bit and this came out:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Now that's what I call a new Lufthansa livery. Looks a whole lot better than what they made of it if you ask me, and this is just one evening of work.

What do you guys think?


Not claiming what I designed is perfect, far from it. I can make mistakes too, certainly given the fact that I only made this design in one evening. However I got the feeling that this design would have been accepted better than what Lufthansa had designed themselves. It's closer to the old livery, which is good. And yet at the same time it's updated, it's refreshing.
 
Antarius
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:50 pm

aw70 wrote:
ua900 wrote:
Lack of yellow helps with display on websites and app.


Actually, that is not necessarily true: it all depends on how the yellow is being used. Somewhat ironically, blue is actually the really difficult colour to work with accurately on a screen, as saturated dark shades in particular are often skirting the gamut of computer displays.

And not even only on screens: the fiasco with the new shade of blue they chose, and which turned out greenish under overcast skies, was a clear indicator that the team which did the new livery design was a bunch of arrogant amateurs. I know which software they used for the design previews, and anyone with a clue about these things would have been aware that said rendering software is a great piece of kit... for a lot of things, but not for previewing colour appearance under varying illumination.

The saddest thing of it all is that the people who are responsible for that horrible re-design will never suffer any career consequences for coming up with this garbage. All it takes is enough ego, and you get away with pretty much everything.


And now, I cannot understand what those yellow squares are supposed to be. It looks like they just added them to check a box. Woefully out of place and not integrated with the rest of the design.

As you said, the fact that they unveiled this new design and promptly had to change the color shows that this was amateur hour all around. Usually, you actually test things out under varying conditions to make sure, then you roll it out. But that's if done by professionals.
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seahawk
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:05 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
They did not do a new livery, they did a complete brand overhaul and there it is a big step forward.


You mean a big step in the wrong direction. They basically screwed up a perfectly good brand. It needed an update, but not an overhaul.e.


A big step in the right direction. Remove the yellow rectanhles next to the door and it would be perfect. The cheap yellow needs to be pushed back for a design made of blue and white that says clarity and quality.
 
Jutlander
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Re: lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:38 pm

seahawk wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
They did not do a new livery, they did a complete brand overhaul and there it is a big step forward.


You mean a big step in the wrong direction. They basically screwed up a perfectly good brand. It needed an update, but not an overhaul.e.


A big step in the right direction. Remove the yellow rectanhles next to the door and it would be perfect. The cheap yellow needs to be pushed back for a design made of blue and white that says clarity and quality.


Yellow ain't cheap, it's classy.

It's exactly the yellow that makes the crane stand out in the old livery, it's the reason you see it. On the new livery you just don't see it, certainly not from a distance. It just looks like a fully black tail. Yes, black because it's too dark to be blue. The crane became invisible because it lacks a contrasting yellow background.

I just don't like the new Lufthansa livery. All they had to do was remove the grey belly and engines from the previous livery and it would have been up to date, but instead they decided to go too far. They totally screwed up. That new livery, it just ain't Lufthansa to me. Lufthansa needs yellow to be Lufthansa. Yellow and blue, not black like it's now. It's ugly.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:00 pm

The yellow looked like a Spiegelei and not classy.
 
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BubbleFrog
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Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 pm

Regarding the yellow, I was told many moons ago that one looks less competent in bright colours and especially yellow and should always opt for dark colours and no or very little patterns when wanting convey... whatever. I was wearing a yellow tartan skirt and had stopped listing by then.

I would at least make the white blotch on the tail yellow. I said before that I would like one yellow plane for every 20 dark / standard ones. Just to make the fleet more interesting and attractive.
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thebunkerparodi
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Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:53 pm

uh, can I get information regarding the concept art for the new lufthansa livery? I'll use them for future model (I like doing what if).

Thanks for your answer!.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:26 pm

thebunkerparodi wrote:
uh, can I get information regarding the concept art for the new lufthansa livery? I'll use them for future model (I like doing what if).

Thanks for your answer!.


You mean the one I designed? Sure, no problem. I painted it on the FAIB A321NEO, screenshots are from Prepar3D v4 with Aerosoft Frankfurt Professional. I've uploaded the file here:

https://filebin.net/t4fod5tjn0nqkw2z/Lu ... t=t2kcjnkl

Have fun with it!
 
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thebunkerparodi
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Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:52 pm

I'm sure that they studied more than just the livery they released(maybe they tried the yellow crane on the dark blue background or studyed other ivariant), so I'll have fun with these.
 
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seahawk
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Lufthansa livery concept?

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:09 am

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