Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:18 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:
The Northern Ireland Executive and the British government's Department of Transport have agreed to continue to provide around £4m in funding for the crucial Derry to London service run by Loganair over the next two years.

http://www.derrynow.com/news/news/61456 ... years.html


This is all well and good - I'm always happy to see a PSO route continued.

A PSO route is ostensibly supposed to fund a route until such time as it can sustain itself. That is the whole point of them being put in place. What I do wonder about these routes in Ireland, so that would also include Kerry and Donegal, is this.

Are efforts being made at a local level to attract business to the areas within the catchment of those airports? The only way these airports will eventually have self-sustaining routes is if there is industry and business nearby who need to use the airport. Is this happening in places like Killarney and Tralee for Kerry? I've been to Donegal Airport and it's pretty rural all around there. Derry of course is a city but it's not a big one by any stretch, at least from what I could see - so are the NI Executive attracting business there?

If not, these PSO routes will always be PSO routes.


I think some PSO routes will either eventually be axed or always be PSO routes for political reasons. A few European countries have these and its just part of infrastructure with guaranteed funding.

LDY-LON is mostly political and one of those issues that get funding where in normal places it would be thrown out. NI politicians have a habit of being able to manipulate a situation to their advantage as we have seen with BFS - EWR heavily funded despite losses and money for bridges that are not needed and dead languages ;)
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:11 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
That isn't my understanding of the purpose of PSO routes. I thought it was to connect far off/rural areas with a major hub where ground transport infrastructure between those two points or to the nearest main airport is inadequate in terms of commute time (i.e. it's about 3.5 hours by road from Killarney to DUB). When the M4/M6 motorways were developed, I think that's why the PSOs for the DUB-GWY, DUB-SXL and DUB-NOC routes were withdrawn.


It's certainly how we were taught about PSO routes when I did my aviation masters a couple of years ago. You're not wrong with regards to connecting far off areas, but ostensibly it's to give air service to places that are growing but can't yet commercially support a route, and to give that a helping hand before eventually becoming commercially viable and no longer requiring a subsidy.

OA260 wrote:
I think some PSO routes will either eventually be axed or always be PSO routes for political reasons. A few European countries have these and its just part of infrastructure with guaranteed funding.

LDY-LON is mostly political and one of those issues that get funding where in normal places it would be thrown out. NI politicians have a habit of being able to manipulate a situation to their advantage as we have seen with BFS - EWR heavily funded despite losses and money for bridges that are not needed and dead languages ;)


Yes, there is always pure waste and pork barrel politics in every country. You can see it here in the 44 airports for 4 million people :P
 
acavpics
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:33 pm

kaitak wrote:
- Irish government has said that EI will not be allowed to fail, but has come up with nothing further in terms of a plan and appears to be sticking by its plan to either ban/discourage air travel for the rest of the year
.


Who said that air travel is going to be discouraged for the rest of 2021? We are just a quarter in and immediately Summer and Christmas vacations are written off?

Tough luck with that. I'm so glad I don't live in Ireland.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:42 pm

Does anyone know if there are LGW-ORK flights operated by either EI or FR? I couldn't find anything contrary to LTN,STN, which seems odd given LGW is 2nd biggest London airport..I have the distinct impression LGW-ORK flights did exist..Am i mistaken?
 
Vicenza
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:20 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:


I'm not sure where this "severe weight restriction" rumour with Ryanair at BHD years ago ever came from, but it was complete nonsense. Flights on these routes were often carrying loads around 170-180 in and out. The issue was more that they couldn't fly much further afield at the time.[/quote]

I came about because O'Leary didn't get his own way and wanting everyone else to fund his operations. It'll happen again, never fear.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:24 pm

Found an old book and gives the Aer Lingus fleet ( along with others ) from 1986. Never knew about the EI-BEM crash .


Image
Image


That lead me to look for the report :


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ndices.pdf
 
eidvm
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:08 pm

OA260 wrote:
Found an old book and gives the Aer Lingus fleet ( along with others ) from 1986. Never knew about the EI-BEM crash .


That lead me to look for the report :


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ndices.pdf


Indeed, very lucky everyone survived that crash, I believe one of the Captains involved only retired about 5 years ago from Aer Lingus.

Image
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:37 pm

UA are dropping IAD-DUB & SFO-DUB for the summer. Disappointing but not surprising given the continued government vilification of travel & warnings that holidays are off the table for 2021
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:56 pm

Never new about the 360 crash either.
Those photos, look like the pages of a CAM from late 70’- early 80’s.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:01 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Does anyone know if there are LGW-ORK flights operated by either EI or FR? I couldn't find anything contrary to LTN,STN, which seems odd given LGW is 2nd biggest London airport..I have the distinct impression LGW-ORK flights did exist..Am i mistaken?

No, you're not mistaken. FR operated once-daily year-round on the ORK-LGW route pre-pandemic.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:19 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Never new about the 360 crash either.
Those photos, look like the pages of a CAM from late 70’- early 80’s.


Indeed it is and just looking through the different airlines and fleet lists is a great trip down memory lane when Aviation was less generic and certainly more interesting.


Image
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:28 pm

Eirules wrote:
UA are dropping IAD-DUB & SFO-DUB for the summer. Disappointing but not surprising given the continued government vilification of travel & warnings that holidays are off the table for 2021


Yeah not at all related to the US not allowing travelers from Europe plus IAD/SFO depend on business travel which will not recover as quick.

Government are not totally responsible.

UA will quiet happily funnel little demand via there scaled down LHR operation.
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:35 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
UA are dropping IAD-DUB & SFO-DUB for the summer. Disappointing but not surprising given the continued government vilification of travel & warnings that holidays are off the table for 2021


Yeah not at all related to the US not allowing travelers from Europe plus IAD/SFO depend on business travel which will not recover as quick.

Government are not totally responsible.

UA will quiet happily funnel little demand via there scaled down LHR operation.



Based on current reports, US borders to reopen 1st July
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:48 pm

Eirules wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
UA are dropping IAD-DUB & SFO-DUB for the summer. Disappointing but not surprising given the continued government vilification of travel & warnings that holidays are off the table for 2021


Yeah not at all related to the US not allowing travelers from Europe plus IAD/SFO depend on business travel which will not recover as quick.

Government are not totally responsible.

UA will quiet happily funnel little demand via there scaled down LHR operation.



Based on current reports, US borders to reopen 1st July


Hopefully it happens and same here and if 80% having been offered at least one vaccine by late June as targeted it should.

Its the right decision to not fly SFO in particular better to start when conditions are more favourable. Tech companies will not start going back to the office anytime soon so travel is also not going to happen.
Last edited by JAmie2k9 on Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 2388
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:58 pm

Please keep this thread on topic and keep politics out of this thread.

Feel free to start a dedicated thread in Non-Aviation or here:

COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1885
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:38 pm

Aviation in Ireland is being heavily impacted by Irish politics at the moment. So very difficult to talk about aviation without having some elements of Irish politics coming into the discusssion
 
LH982
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:12 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
Never new about the 360 crash either.
Those photos, look like the pages of a CAM from late 70’- early 80’s.


It was in the news at the time, but at a very low level, and was treated more as an incident than a crash. The Avair Beech 99 wheels up landing at Dublin in the early 80s got much more attention.

From memory they leased an Air UK 360 for a number of months until they could get another 360 from Shorts(EI-BVM).
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:08 am

New England Patriots plane touches down in Shannon


Image

A plane belonging to the New England Patriots garnered local attention over the weekend when it landed in Shannon Airport.

www.clareecho.ie/new-england-patriots-p ... n-shannon/
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:28 pm

Loganair steps in to safeguard City of Derry Airport to Liverpool John Lennon route

Loganair has today announced it will step in to safeguard the popular air link between City of Derry Airport and Liverpool following Ryanair’s recent decision to step back from the route.

www.derryjournal.com/lifestyle/travel/l ... 157587?amp
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:38 pm

Turkish Airlines according to an email to Miles and Smiles members are planning 3 weekly DUB - AYT flights from 20/6 until 12/10 . Using B738 Wed Fri Sun .
Flights are now on sale on various OTA websites .
Expedia etc
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:55 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Ryanair’s Cork Airport base to stay closed until winter ‘at the earliest’

Ryanair will not re-open its Cork Airport base until next winter at the earlierst , the airline said on Tuesday.

The carrier closed Cork last November in the face of ongoing Covid-19 travel restrictions, but indicated that it could re-open the base in April if conditions allowed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.4498984


That is a sad, but expected outcome for the airport, I think. I hope that this is temporary and FR will be seen again. In the interim FR can operate from other bases, as they did in the Autumn. I can't see Summer 2021 being much of a year at this stage - the UK press has very mixed messages about summer travel and the Irish press and government messaging is almost entirely negative. Leaving your Eircode in August feels like it will be an achievement at this stage! On one had the vaccination programme is working well, but there are variants of concern and they seem to be very much associated with international movement. From the 8th of March UK residents will be required to declare the reason for travel to the government prior to travel, which all seems like it is going in the wrong direction. Simultaneously the same media outlets talk of EU vaccination passports, so the picture is very confusing.

ORK will be an interesting watch over the next few years. If FR do not come back the variety and number of airlines might go up - but there will always be the risk that FR would defend 'their' turf. The arrival of LH, AF, KL & IB will improve connectivity for the region.


Its expected all flights will cease at Cork between 1 September-30 November to allow the works take place.

Aer Lingus have closed reservations for 3 months, other carriers have yet to do so. Airport have yet to officially confirm its a full closure.
 
aerloingeas
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:27 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:18 am

AerCap to Acquire GE Capital Aviation Services

Dublin – Wednesday, March 10, 2021– AerCap Holdings N.V. (“AerCap” or the “Company”) (NYSE: AER), the global leader in aircraft leasing, announced today that it has entered into a definitive agreement with General Electric (NYSE:GE) under which AerCap will acquire 100% of GE Capital Aviation Services (“GECAS”), a GE business.

The combined company will be an industry leader across all areas of aviation leasing, with over 2,000 owned and managed aircraft, over 900 owned and managed engines, over 300 owned helicopters and approximately 300 customers around the world.


https://www.aercap.com/media/news/aercap-to-acquire-ge-capital-aviation-services/

Aercap confirms €25bn deal to create world’s biggest aircraft lessor

Irish-based group’s purchase will create fleet of 2,000 planes and 300 helicopters

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aercap-confirms-25bn-deal-to-create-world-s-biggest-aircraft-lessor-1.4506324


Am aware that this topic has its own separate thread, however felt it was worth noting here about this transaction was announced this week. Incredible moment for the industry in Ireland, which further consolidates Ireland's position as the leading global center of excellence for aircraft leasing.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:12 am

As you can all imagine not much news over the last few days. Just a few bits. A blow to Dublin Airport cash flow as their pay to drop off scheme has had the rug pulled from under it.


Council turns down DAA plan for paid drop-off and pick-up zones at Dublin Airport
Fingal County Council rules aspect of proposal would pose a safety risk

Plans by airport operator DAA to install new paid drop-off and pick-up zones at Dublin Airport have suffered a major setback.

This follows Fingal County Council refusing planning permission to DAA to install the infrastructure and change the internal roadwork at the airport to allow the scheme to proceed.

www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/cou ... -1.4506844

--

TD calls on Cork Airport to 'urgently intervene' to prevent redundancies of support staff

Solidarity TD Mick Barry has urged Cork Airport to intervene to prevent compulsory redundancies and the possibility of strike action at the airport.

His comments came as facilities company OCS (Ireland) Ltd are due to make three of its six workers compulsorily redundant today.

OCS is under contract at Cork Airport for cleaning, baggage security and providing assistance to passengers with reduced mobility.

www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40241480.html
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:07 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Ryanair’s Cork Airport base to stay closed until winter ‘at the earliest’

Ryanair will not re-open its Cork Airport base until next winter at the earlierst , the airline said on Tuesday.

The carrier closed Cork last November in the face of ongoing Covid-19 travel restrictions, but indicated that it could re-open the base in April if conditions allowed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.4498984


That is a sad, but expected outcome for the airport, I think. I hope that this is temporary and FR will be seen again. In the interim FR can operate from other bases, as they did in the Autumn. I can't see Summer 2021 being much of a year at this stage - the UK press has very mixed messages about summer travel and the Irish press and government messaging is almost entirely negative. Leaving your Eircode in August feels like it will be an achievement at this stage! On one had the vaccination programme is working well, but there are variants of concern and they seem to be very much associated with international movement. From the 8th of March UK residents will be required to declare the reason for travel to the government prior to travel, which all seems like it is going in the wrong direction. Simultaneously the same media outlets talk of EU vaccination passports, so the picture is very confusing.

ORK will be an interesting watch over the next few years. If FR do not come back the variety and number of airlines might go up - but there will always be the risk that FR would defend 'their' turf. The arrival of LH, AF, KL & IB will improve connectivity for the region.


Its expected all flights will cease at Cork between 1 September-30 November to allow the works take place.

Aer Lingus have closed reservations for 3 months, other carriers have yet to do so. Airport have yet to officially confirm its a full closure.

I wonder if limited ops could still go ahead using the crosswind runway (07/25)? I've seen RE using it so I know it's suited to the AT7 but would it be sufficient for other regional aircraft (E-Jets, CRJs, A220s etc. used by KL, AF, LH, LX) to use it? Could any of our resident pilots/tech people advise on the limitations?
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:22 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:

That is a sad, but expected outcome for the airport, I think. I hope that this is temporary and FR will be seen again. In the interim FR can operate from other bases, as they did in the Autumn. I can't see Summer 2021 being much of a year at this stage - the UK press has very mixed messages about summer travel and the Irish press and government messaging is almost entirely negative. Leaving your Eircode in August feels like it will be an achievement at this stage! On one had the vaccination programme is working well, but there are variants of concern and they seem to be very much associated with international movement. From the 8th of March UK residents will be required to declare the reason for travel to the government prior to travel, which all seems like it is going in the wrong direction. Simultaneously the same media outlets talk of EU vaccination passports, so the picture is very confusing.

ORK will be an interesting watch over the next few years. If FR do not come back the variety and number of airlines might go up - but there will always be the risk that FR would defend 'their' turf. The arrival of LH, AF, KL & IB will improve connectivity for the region.


Its expected all flights will cease at Cork between 1 September-30 November to allow the works take place.

Aer Lingus have closed reservations for 3 months, other carriers have yet to do so. Airport have yet to officially confirm its a full closure.

I wonder if limited ops could still go ahead using the crosswind runway (07/25)? I've seen RE using it so I know it's suited to the AT7 but would it be sufficient for other regional aircraft (E-Jets, CRJs, A220s etc. used by KL, AF, LH, LX) to use it? Could any of our resident pilots/tech people advise on the limitations?


Never taught about that. Its possible and EI do have ATR flights available but that could change.
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1885
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:33 pm

If anyone wants to become f4ustrTed you might want to listen to the interview of Eamon Ryan on the Pat Kenny show this morning on Newstalk. (Starts about 30 mins in)
Kenny is a pretty weak interviewer, really should have skewered the minister for evading the direct questions.
Eamon Ryan mumbled his way through the interview, responding with platitudes and irrelevant sound bites.

ie, When asked how the immigration staff can be aware of the previous travel of an inbound passenger;
ER- “well that’s what the locator form is for”
PK-“are you not aware Minister that it’s just a form, people can lie on it?”
ER- “Well falsifying information is a criminal offence”
PK- “how would we know that when there is little checking up of inbound passengers”

He was also pressed about the statistic of 7000 inbound Irish residents but only 850 fines for being outside their 5km. The minister bravely passed that discrepancy into the Gardaí.
Overall the minister came across as ill-prepared and lacking in any knowledge of aviation and the airport.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:18 pm

I heard it; it was an embarrassment; really, if that's the calibre of leadership we have, it's not surprising that we are where we are.

The statement that a plan for aviation would send a mixed message was just as embarrassing. There has to be a plan. The government is prepared to tell people that the lockdown will now be extended until late May (remember, not so long ago when govt minister's were falling over themselves trying to tell people that the Taoiseach didn't mean what he said when he privately spoke about this!). The problem is that the govt is going to be faced with a predictable issue: when the UK opens to international travel, tens of thousands of people will be heading north. How is the govt going to deal with that? Will the EU vaccine passport be available by then? Do they really, seriously believe that people are going to cope with being cooped up until the end of May?

The only positive thing that came out of the interview is that ER said that the government supported a Europe wide-approach, which included the vaccine passport, and the traffic light system, but this seems to be moving far more quickly than the govt is. It is likely to be launched while Ireland is still (at least) at Level 4.
 
EIBusiness
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:47 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:00 pm

kaitak wrote:
I heard it; it was an embarrassment; really, if that's the calibre of leadership we have, it's not surprising that we are where we are.

The statement that a plan for aviation would send a mixed message was just as embarrassing. There has to be a plan. The government is prepared to tell people that the lockdown will now be extended until late May (remember, not so long ago when govt minister's were falling over themselves trying to tell people that the Taoiseach didn't mean what he said when he privately spoke about this!). The problem is that the govt is going to be faced with a predictable issue: when the UK opens to international travel, tens of thousands of people will be heading north. How is the govt going to deal with that? Will the EU vaccine passport be available by then? Do they really, seriously believe that people are going to cope with being cooped up until the end of May?

The only positive thing that came out of the interview is that ER said that the government supported a Europe wide-approach, which included the vaccine passport, and the traffic light system, but this seems to be moving far more quickly than the govt is. It is likely to be launched while Ireland is still (at least) at Level 4.


Is it really any surprise however? The same minister that prioritizes reducing methane gases or banning mineral exploration in Ireland over recovery of the Aviation sector. The same minister who falls asleep in public proceedings. I've said it for months on here - there simply is no strategy for the recovery of Aviation in Ireland. The strategy is simply one of an endless lock-down heralding permanent unemployment and despair for many. The situation is quite frankly ruinous.

The really frightening experience at the moment is to board an aircraft in Dublin and arrive into the United States later in the day. Frightening - because it highlights the absolute shambolic approach that has been taken in Ireland. Currently in one airport (DUB) you have the pleasure of a police interview prior to security and a general lacking of any widespread availability of private PCR testing for travel purposes. You arrive later the same day into a country with abundantly available, rapid on-demand testing and a country that is vaccinating more than two million persons daily. It is mentally incomprehensible how two first world wealthy nations could be so utterly different in their response. The vaccine roll-out in Ireland (supposedly a Pharma hub) is failing miserably.

Without mass vaccinations the Aviation sector is not going to recover in Ireland. There is no comprehensive plan - the entire situation is shambolic and utterly depressing for the citizens of Ireland who have to endure the consequences of rudderless policy from the government. The compulsory redundancies are only starting - the real impacts will begin to set in after June 2021 once all of the government support schemes are gradually wound down.

1,000 daa staff to leave Dublin and Cork airports

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... -airports/

EIBusiness
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:33 pm

kaitak wrote:
I heard it; it was an embarrassment; really, if that's the calibre of leadership we have, it's not surprising that we are where we are.

The statement that a plan for aviation would send a mixed message was just as embarrassing. There has to be a plan. The government is prepared to tell people that the lockdown will now be extended until late May (remember, not so long ago when govt minister's were falling over themselves trying to tell people that the Taoiseach didn't mean what he said when he privately spoke about this!). The problem is that the govt is going to be faced with a predictable issue: when the UK opens to international travel, tens of thousands of people will be heading north. How is the govt going to deal with that? Will the EU vaccine passport be available by then? Do they really, seriously believe that people are going to cope with being cooped up until the end of May?

The only positive thing that came out of the interview is that ER said that the government supported a Europe wide-approach, which included the vaccine passport, and the traffic light system, but this seems to be moving far more quickly than the govt is. It is likely to be launched while Ireland is still (at least) at Level 4.


Interesting to hear that Ireland is still signed up to the traffic lights system. Will be interesting to see how it works this year and if they still keep the ban on travel while signed up to the system. Talk about mixed messages. I doubt we will see thousands head North. Anyway TUI advised a large cancellation of their program from BFS today up to the end of June. What Im finding is that the majority of the Irish population are resigned to threats of fines so the fear is enough to keep people at home. More delays here today with vaccination roll out for even the most clinically vulnerable. So I dont see holidays anytime soon. Rumours of more jobs going at Aer Lingus and more route cuts we shall see if that comes true. Another load of cancelations until end of April were done recently.

Whatever happens the domestic tourism sector will need more money too and a clean up of Dublin for those International tourists before they come. I was in Dublin the other day and walking down Mary Street all boarded up with homeless tents dotted along the street. Former Debenhams boarded up with graffiti on it and tents outside there also the place is like a slum. If flights are to increase and we are to welcome tourists back the place will need more then a spring clean. Having traveled extensively around the globe Ive seen lots of poverty but that shocked even me.

There needs to be a clear plan for outbound and inbound tourism and incentives to get airlines back. Its going to need another Skyfest or gathering but x 2 !
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:07 am

NTA behind proposal to bring rail link to Shannon Airport - Clare Echo

Provision of a rail link for Shannon is included as an objective of the Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy (LSMATS) which will include a spur to Shannon Airport.

Plans for the LSMATS were unveiled by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in September and are estimated to cost a total of €1.4bn, including €50m in walking infrastructure, €69m in cycling infrastructure and €405m in bus infrastructure. €3.8bn in benefits to the local economy as a consequence of the additional infrastructure are also predicted.

http://www.clareecho.ie/nta-behind-prop ... n-airport/

--

NI photographer on moment he shot "once-in-a-lifetime" photo

"I spoke to another local photographer afterwards who said he has been trying for years to get that shot"

A passenger jet is silhouetted dramatically in the night sky - as it flew across the centre of the full moon in this "once-in-a-lifetime" photo.
Ralph captured the photo at 6.04pm on February 25 - just four minutes after the plane had departed from Belfast International Airport, bound for London Gatwick.

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... e-20079126

---


400,000 postponed holidays 'in doubt' due to continued pandemic restrictions

Some 400,000 customers had their holidays postponed until this year due to the coronavirus pandemic, but they are now “in doubt” as Covid-19 continues to cause uncertainty, the chief executive of the Irish Travel Agents’ Association (ITAA) has said.

On Thursday, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said the possibility of overseas travel this year will depend on the data, but warned that “long before” non-essential travel resumes, mandatory quarantine will be “up and running”. Mr Varadkar believes the summer will be another domestic tourist season.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40242632.html
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:42 am

OA260 wrote:
A passenger jet is silhouetted dramatically in the night sky - as it flew across the centre of the full moon in this "once-in-a-lifetime" photo.
Ralph captured the photo at 6.04pm on February 25 - just four minutes after the plane had departed from Belfast International Airport, bound for London Gatwick.

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... e-20079126

--

Mr Varadkar believes the summer will be another domestic tourist season.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40242632.html


Love the picture of the aircraft in front of the moon! I bet the photographer was delighted with that one.

No surprises on summer being domestic again. It would be nice if it was domestic and UK though, so people could at least go somewhere. I'm not overly surprised though, I always thought it would be late Q3 at the earliest before things started up properly again.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:49 am

A rather grim anniversary today: it's the 71st anniversary of the Llandudno air disaster, in which an Avro York, of Airflight, operating a rugby charter from Dublin to Cardiff crashed on approach because the CoG was too far aft, rendering elevators ineffective. 80 out of 83 were lost, making it the worst aircraft accident in the world at the time.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:19 pm

Any idea what HiFly are up to today with their A330-900 CS-TKY ops DUB-MAN?
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:11 pm

OA260 wrote:
I doubt we will see thousands head North.

It's interesting; a few weeks back I would have said the opposite. I'm in the cohort (along with many people my age - late 20s) who are rearing to go and once vaccinated, will be heading North if we have to, to fly out to any country that'll have us. I thought this view would be shared by the majority but from speaking to work colleagues (who are a bit older - not sure if it's an age thing) - they're adamant they're not going anywhere for at least a year, even after they get vaccinated as the thoughts of "breathing someone else's air" on a plane freaks them out.

OA260 wrote:
NTA behind proposal to bring rail link to Shannon Airport - Clare Echo

I think it's a good idea in principle but I think a bigger review about how we use our rail infrastructure in this country needs to happen first. The Limerick-Galway direct train has a journey time of over 2hrs and stops in what seems like every town and village en route. It's nearly twice as quick to drive or even take the bus. No wonder they're running empty. If the rail infrastructure focused on major towns/cities and airports with a high-speed service (great if the Limerick-Galway line could also be timed to call at SNN to coincide with peak arrival/departure times) and let Bus Éireann focus on feeding the cities/rail hubs from the secondary towns/routes. I realise this would be virtually impossible to get over the political and financial hurdles but this is my "perfect world" scenario.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:38 pm

EIBusiness wrote:
The really frightening experience at the moment is to board an aircraft in Dublin and arrive into the United States later in the day. Frightening - because it highlights the absolute shambolic approach that has been taken in Ireland. Currently in one airport (DUB) you have the pleasure of a police interview prior to security and a general lacking of any widespread availability of private PCR testing for travel purposes. You arrive later the same day into a country with abundantly available, rapid on-demand testing and a country that is vaccinating more than two million persons daily. It is mentally incomprehensible how two first world wealthy nations could be so utterly different in their response. The vaccine roll-out in Ireland (supposedly a Pharma hub) is failing miserably.

I agree to an extent - but you have to consider how different the provision of healthcare is in the US and Ireland, the powers state and federal government have, so you really are not comparing like with like. European AND US governments do not want International travel, indeed the US is more closed than most European countries. The vast distances between cities in North America compared to Europe make comparisons totally different. Domestic air travel is open in the US, because there are no practical alternatives, but international travel, even to Canada and Mexico remains closed.
Ireland may well be a Pharma hub, but most of the manufacturing capacity is not for vaccines, much less COVID ones. Comparing a Viagra factory and a Vaccine factory is like comparing a mattress factory to a car plant.

All of that said, the Irish Government response to opening up is disappointing. There does not seem to be any roadmap for re-opening domestically, let alone permitting travel. ORK will be closed for 3 months this side of Christmas, I think that tells you all you need to know about travel for 2021.

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I doubt we will see thousands head North.

It's interesting; a few weeks back I would have said the opposite. I'm in the cohort (along with many people my age - late 20s) who are rearing to go and once vaccinated, will be heading North if we have to, to fly out to any country that'll have us. I thought this view would be shared by the majority but from speaking to work colleagues (who are a bit older - not sure if it's an age thing) - they're adamant they're not going anywhere for at least a year, even after they get vaccinated as the thoughts of "breathing someone else's air" on a plane freaks them out.

Its going to be interesting alright, I think a lot of people might have already decided that a station "will do". There are still a lot of unknowns about testing, quarantine and how quickly it might change, even while you're abroad. The rates in Germany, France and Italy are heading back upwards, which is very discouraging. The EU does not seem at all keen on the AstraZenica vaccine and the constant mutterings seem to be undermining the vaccination program, especially in France. This is deeply worrying for Ireland, as we are very much committed to the EU-wide approach, the results of which do not appear to be favourable compared to the US, UK and Australian models. The commission really needs to clarify their thinking and communication or they risk damaging the European project as a whole.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:02 pm

kaitak wrote:
A rather grim anniversary today: it's the 71st anniversary of the Llandudno air disaster, in which an Avro York, of Airflight, operating a rugby charter from Dublin to Cardiff crashed on approach because the CoG was too far aft, rendering elevators ineffective. 80 out of 83 were lost, making it the worst aircraft accident in the world at the time.


I think you mean the Llandow air disaster! Llandudno is rather far away from Cardiff and certainly not on the approach path! Just read the wiki link about it, very grim reading.


Aer Lingus have started to advertise secondments and base transfers to MAN to crew in DUB/SNN/ORK. Looks like this could help prevent more job losses in the short term.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:18 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I doubt we will see thousands head North.

It's interesting; a few weeks back I would have said the opposite. I'm in the cohort (along with many people my age - late 20s) who are rearing to go and once vaccinated, will be heading North if we have to, to fly out to any country that'll have us. I thought this view would be shared by the majority but from speaking to work colleagues (who are a bit older - not sure if it's an age thing) - they're adamant they're not going anywhere for at least a year, even after they get vaccinated as the thoughts of "breathing someone else's air" on a plane freaks them out.



Id certainly agree with that always some people that buck the tend but generally its a young v old in the Irish population with regards travel currently. Same with the travel shaming in my experience.
I know some people who are heading back up North and over to England to get their jabs when its open to them as they dont want to wait here and like you are eager to get out and about. Of course they will still need to follow all rules and precautions but at least if the likes of Spain, Canaries and Greece open up to vaccinated tourists then they can go. I have not decided where I will get mine yet whoever is the fastest and not because I want a holiday but I want to see my parents again !
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:16 pm

tonystan wrote:
kaitak wrote:
A rather grim anniversary today: it's the 71st anniversary of the Llandudno air disaster, in which an Avro York, of Airflight, operating a rugby charter from Dublin to Cardiff crashed on approach because the CoG was too far aft, rendering elevators ineffective. 80 out of 83 were lost, making it the worst aircraft accident in the world at the time.


I think you mean the Llandow air disaster! Llandudno is rather far away from Cardiff and certainly not on the approach path! Just read the wiki link about it, very grim reading.

.


Ah sorry, I never did well on my Welsh geography. Too much singing and I just lost concentration!
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:38 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I doubt we will see thousands head North.

It's interesting; a few weeks back I would have said the opposite. I'm in the cohort (along with many people my age - late 20s) who are rearing to go and once vaccinated, will be heading North if we have to, to fly out to any country that'll have us. I thought this view would be shared by the majority but from speaking to work colleagues (who are a bit older - not sure if it's an age thing) - they're adamant they're not going anywhere for at least a year, even after they get vaccinated as the thoughts of "breathing someone else's air" on a plane freaks them out.


That's pretty amusing, to be perfectly honest. I'm with you, as soon as I can travel, I will be doing so. I went away in August and December last year and I had no qualms about it whatsoever. The worry about the airport and flying part of travel is far overblown.

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
NTA behind proposal to bring rail link to Shannon Airport - Clare Echo

I think it's a good idea in principle but I think a bigger review about how we use our rail infrastructure in this country needs to happen first. The Limerick-Galway direct train has a journey time of over 2hrs and stops in what seems like every town and village en route. It's nearly twice as quick to drive or even take the bus. No wonder they're running empty. If the rail infrastructure focused on major towns/cities and airports with a high-speed service (great if the Limerick-Galway line could also be timed to call at SNN to coincide with peak arrival/departure times) and let Bus Éireann focus on feeding the cities/rail hubs from the secondary towns/routes. I realise this would be virtually impossible to get over the political and financial hurdles but this is my "perfect world" scenario.


Is it not possible to have certain Limerick to Galway train services that only serve the two cities several times a day and then other services which serve all stations? Surely that is the best of both worlds? Or is there some infrastructure deficiency preventing something like this?
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:13 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
I doubt we will see thousands head North.

It's interesting; a few weeks back I would have said the opposite. I'm in the cohort (along with many people my age - late 20s) who are rearing to go and once vaccinated, will be heading North if we have to, to fly out to any country that'll have us. I thought this view would be shared by the majority but from speaking to work colleagues (who are a bit older - not sure if it's an age thing) - they're adamant they're not going anywhere for at least a year, even after they get vaccinated as the thoughts of "breathing someone else's air" on a plane freaks them out.


That's pretty amusing, to be perfectly honest. I'm with you, as soon as I can travel, I will be doing so. I went away in August and December last year and I had no qualms about it whatsoever. The worry about the airport and flying part of travel is far overblown.

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
NTA behind proposal to bring rail link to Shannon Airport - Clare Echo

I think it's a good idea in principle but I think a bigger review about how we use our rail infrastructure in this country needs to happen first. The Limerick-Galway direct train has a journey time of over 2hrs and stops in what seems like every town and village en route. It's nearly twice as quick to drive or even take the bus. No wonder they're running empty. If the rail infrastructure focused on major towns/cities and airports with a high-speed service (great if the Limerick-Galway line could also be timed to call at SNN to coincide with peak arrival/departure times) and let Bus Éireann focus on feeding the cities/rail hubs from the secondary towns/routes. I realise this would be virtually impossible to get over the political and financial hurdles but this is my "perfect world" scenario.


Is it not possible to have certain Limerick to Galway train services that only serve the two cities several times a day and then other services which serve all stations? Surely that is the best of both worlds? Or is there some infrastructure deficiency preventing something like this?


Yes its a single track and one area is Ennis-Limerick section at full capacity. On paper a rail line to Shanon isnt remotely viable and will unlikely happen.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:41 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
Yes its a single track and one area is Ennis-Limerick section at full capacity. On paper a rail line to Shanon isnt remotely viable and will unlikely happen.


You'd think they might want to double track this then before thinking about Shannon Airport, which, I agree, would be a waste of money.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:52 pm

EIBusiness wrote:
It is mentally incomprehensible how two first world wealthy nations could be so utterly different in their response.


It is indeed. Ireland (nor Europe for that matter) is not opening up without restrictions and abandoning all precautions like masks as if everything is normal, yet you don't seem to criticise this but still concentrate on the 'inferiority' of Ireland. Considering you don't even live in Ireland I really fail to see your constant hatred, while bestowing the 'virtues' of the US and which happens to have the most deaths of any country in the world by far because of it's approach. All you seem interested in is money.
 
iRISH251
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:18 am

kaitak wrote:
A rather grim anniversary today: it's the 71st anniversary of the Llandudno air disaster, in which an Avro York, of Airflight, operating a rugby charter from Dublin to Cardiff crashed on approach because the CoG was too far aft, rendering elevators ineffective. 80 out of 83 were lost, making it the worst aircraft accident in the world at the time.


It was an Avro Tudor, a not-very-successful post-war airliner. Grim enough photos here: https://tinyurl.com/4d2umtta
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:04 am

OA260 wrote:
I know some people who are heading back up North and over to England to get their jabs when its open to them as they dont want to wait here and like you are eager to get out and about. Of course they will still need to follow all rules and precautions but at least if the likes of Spain, Canaries and Greece open up to vaccinated tourists then they can go. I have not decided where I will get mine yet whoever is the fastest and not because I want a holiday but I want to see my parents again !


Unless people have an NHS number, are resident in the U.K., registered with a GP and entitled to NHS care they will get a nasty shock. The vaccine is not available privately in the U.K.
I’m not sure that vaccinations will be required for Greece based on the current proposals. Greece say they will be happy with U.K. arrivals with a vaccine, antibodies OR a negative test. Greece are planning on vaccinating their tourism workers, which is an interesting and sensible approach in a country with 30-40% of GDP related to tourism.
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:02 am

The issue with countries only accepting those that have been vaccinated is that those who haven’t (mostly the younger) will get extremely annoyed that they’ve put their lives on hold for a year to protect the older / vulnerable but now that cohort are getting their freedom back. Not an issue for the country they’re visiting but very much one for the govt here
 
bennett123
Posts: 10886
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:34 am

The younger generation are always annoyed.

No one has been enjoying themselves over the last 12 months.

They have also got themselves fixated on this idea that COVID is just a sniffle unless you are elderly or in poor health already.

The priority is vaccination, and the sooner the better.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25777
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:07 pm

Cork Airport strike averted after redundancy notices withdrawn

A ballot for strike action has been called off at Cork Airport after a company which manages facilities there withdrew redundancy notices served to staff members.

Three wheelchair assistance staff were made compulsorily redundant this week by OCS, a company contracted to manage facilities at Cork Airport.

But today, SIPTU confirmed that OCS has withdrawn the redundancy notices and the three workers are back on the roster.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40243400.html

--

Dublin Airport travel hopes as top medic Luke O'Neill thinks European holidays will be possible
And he predicts outdoor venues will reopen in June allowing people to meet for a pint and a bite to eat

Top medic Luke O’Neill has given fresh hope for European travel this summer if the vaccines are rolled out faster.

www.dublinlive.ie/lifestyle/travel/dubl ... p-20129150
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:09 pm

bennett123 wrote:

They have also got themselves fixated on this idea that COVID is just a sniffle unless you are elderly or in poor health already.



Not entirely untrue. A virus that’s killed <0.5% of the population in a year when flu kills approximately 0.3% annually
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:18 pm

Eirules wrote:
The issue with countries only accepting those that have been vaccinated is that those who haven’t (mostly the younger) will get extremely annoyed that they’ve put their lives on hold for a year to protect the older / vulnerable but now that cohort are getting their freedom back. Not an issue for the country they’re visiting but very much one for the govt here

They may be annoyed, but where are they planning on going? As slow as the vaccine program is in Ireland, cases are falling rapidly, the rate of fall is roughly similar to the U.K. The U.K. trajectory with schools reopen will be the real test. It’s possible that the vaccine will allow a more rapid opening, sustainable for the long term. Here’s hoping.

Individual countries will have to assess when they open their borders and to whom. I think counties with big tourist industries will break from the EU, especially as the major countries are starting to spiral again. Greece is vaccinating their tourist workforce and planning to entry to people with vaccines OR negative tests. With Irish rates similar to the U.K. I can’t see why Irish tourists, even unvaccinated, would not be welcomed. The return home is a different story, of course.
 
iRISH251
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:20 pm

Eirules wrote:
bennett123 wrote:

They have also got themselves fixated on this idea that COVID is just a sniffle unless you are elderly or in poor health already.



Not entirely untrue. A virus that’s killed <0.5% of the population in a year when flu kills approximately 0.3% annually


And fatalities have been confined to that level because of the measures taken. Many vulnerable people are vaccinated for flu annually whereas until recent weeks we have not had a vaccine for COVID. Not comparing like with like at all.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos