Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:14 pm

Good afternoon folks and welcome to our third instalment of what has so far proven to be a less than pleasant year for aviation. Here's a link to those with a good stiff brandy in one hand and a mouse in the other - and might feel tempted to look back on the last month:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1457319&start=150

There are, however, signs of some green shoots, despite the gloom:
- Vaccinations now gathering pace
- UK government has announced plan to re-open economy based on their successful vaccine rollout. This should allow Aer Lingus to press ahead with its UK transatlantic base, and should also add pressure to Irish government to come up with a plan.
- Irish government has said that EI will not be allowed to fail, but has come up with nothing further in terms of a plan and appears to be sticking by its plan to either ban/discourage air travel for the rest of the year
- EI has appointed its first female CEO, Lynn Embleton.
- Lufthansa has announced a new route from Cork to FRA, twice weekly, to begin in June
- Hi Fly, a new Moldovan carrier, is to begin a DUB service
- TK is increasing its A330 services to DUB

Despite these green shoots, they are just that - green shoots in a garden of triffids and quicksand. There is very little firm to go on. To use an aviation metaphor, the govenrment has effectively flicked on the autopilot, called NPHET and as we know from so many bad endings, over-reliance on the autopilot doesn't end well; it's a case of GIGO and an autopilot will quite happily fly you into the side of a mountain if you don't monitor what it is. That's no reflection on NPHET; it's doing its job and its remit doesn't extend to the rest of the economy and how it might recover.

The government does not give any impression of what it intends the post-Covid world and Irish economy to look like; there is very little sign of leadership. It is content to let NPHET do the flying for it and to sit back and watch. We can at least be thankful that it is not aiming for a "zero Covid" policy, as some have suggested, but beyond that, the demonisation of aviaiton continues, while one of the greatest contributors to economic growth and recovery is allowed to wither.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5318
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm

kaitak wrote:
There are, however, signs of some green shoots, despite the gloom:


Indeed, I've flights to the London booked for the end of August with BA, which I expect to be able to use.

I also booked flights to Helsinki for the end of October earlier today. There's that Platinum Wing to use, and I was sick the entire time I was last there in 2005, so I didn't really see the city. About time I rectified that.

Green shoots indeed!
 
iRISH251
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:56 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:40 pm

kaitak wrote:
Good afternoon folks and welcome to our third instalment of what has so far proven to be a less than pleasant year for aviation. Here's a link to those with a good stiff brandy in one hand and a mouse in the other - and might feel tempted to look back on the last month:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1457319&start=150

There are, however, signs of some green shoots, despite the gloom:
- Vaccinations now gathering pace
- UK government has announced plan to re-open economy based on their successful vaccine rollout. This should allow Aer Lingus to press ahead with its UK transatlantic base, and should also add pressure to Irish government to come up with a plan.
- Irish government has said that EI will not be allowed to fail, but has come up with nothing further in terms of a plan and appears to be sticking by its plan to either ban/discourage air travel for the rest of the year
- EI has appointed its first female CEO, Lynn Embleton.
- Lufthansa has announced a new route from Cork to FRA, twice weekly, to begin in June
- Hi Fly, a new Moldovan carrier, is to begin a DUB service
- TK is increasing its A330 services to DUB

Despite these green shoots, they are just that - green shoots in a garden of triffids and quicksand. There is very little firm to go on. To use an aviation metaphor, the govenrment has effectively flicked on the autopilot, called NPHET and as we know from so many bad endings, over-reliance on the autopilot doesn't end well; it's a case of GIGO and an autopilot will quite happily fly you into the side of a mountain if you don't monitor what it is. That's no reflection on NPHET; it's doing its job and its remit doesn't extend to the rest of the economy and how it might recover.

The government does not give any impression of what it intends the post-Covid world and Irish economy to look like; there is very little sign of leadership. It is content to let NPHET do the flying for it and to sit back and watch. We can at least be thankful that it is not aiming for a "zero Covid" policy, as some have suggested, but beyond that, the demonisation of aviaiton continues, while one of the greatest contributors to economic growth and recovery is allowed to wither.


It would make more sense to attribute the primary blame to Covid rather than simply Government or NPHET. There is no playbook that, if used, will plot a straightforward path for western democracies through the present crisis. Most of the rest of Europe is in trouble too, as is North America, and until things begin to turn around in a meaningful way internationally, it's going to remain very difficult for aviation. The risk from variants, which could undermine the effectiveness of vaccination programmes, is significant at the moment and is a reason why effective vaccination on a worldwide scale is needed; otherwise more variants will have a change to emerge and to propagate in the places where the population is not protected, and in turn this will threaten the return towards normality that we all crave.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:35 pm

kaitak wrote:
- UK government has announced plan to re-open economy based on their successful vaccine rollout. This should allow Aer Lingus to press ahead with its UK transatlantic base, and should also add pressure to Irish government to come up with a plan.


They need to look at what can be done to speed up the vaccination process.Patience especially among the young is running out. We saw that in the unrest on the streets of Dublin yesterday.

There still has been no proper plan about what they intend to do with the travel industry when level 5 ends while presumably keeping travel bans in place or advising against it. There will be plenty of companies who will not notice the difference and will need further supports well beyond June unless travel actually opens up.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:23 pm

KLM re-opened AMS-ORK with E75 today March 1st, 2021 with a new morning rotation.
Initially 3x weekly, but daily from April 2021.

01 Mar 2021 AMS 09.30 - ORK 10.20 KL1085 E75L PH-EXJ Landed 10.06
01 Mar 2021 ORK 10.50 - AMS 13.35 KL1086 E75L PH-EXJ Landed 13:10


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/kl1085
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:52 pm

All EI ground and cabin crew at SNN to be temporarily laid off:

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-new ... ort-staff/

Looks like any resumption of EI service at SNN will not happen before June.
 
User avatar
IrishTexan
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:24 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:32 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
All EI ground and cabin crew at SNN to be temporarily laid off:

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-new ... ort-staff/

Looks like any resumption of EI service at SNN will not happen before June.


Aer Lingus statement quoted by Clare FM
http://www.clare.fm/news/aer-lingus-lay ... ee-months/
The following line in the statement sounds ominous.
"This may also be subject to further extension or change based on work requirements in Shannon."
 
tonystan
Posts: 1763
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:13 pm

Some ever so slightly positive news, Emerald appear to be commencing recruitment imminently. They have launched a LinkedIn page and advertising for recruitment.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:42 pm

Would be great for Irish Tourism if this comes about.

Ireland and UK to bid for 2030 FIFA World Cup

Ireland will be part of a bid with the UK to host the World Cup in 2030, it has emerged.
Taoiseach Micheál Martin’s spokesman confirmed Ireland will be part of the bid once it is formally launched.

www.independent.ie/news/ireland-and-uk- ... 47554.html
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:01 pm

IrishTexan wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
All EI ground and cabin crew at SNN to be temporarily laid off:

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-new ... ort-staff/

Looks like any resumption of EI service at SNN will not happen before June.


Aer Lingus statement quoted by Clare FM
http://www.clare.fm/news/aer-lingus-lay ... ee-months/
The following line in the statement sounds ominous.
"This may also be subject to further extension or change based on work requirements in Shannon."


Biden will have to confirm when he plans to reopen the US. SNN will stay suspended until then.

Its reasonable that holidays will be back from June/July here. Most important vaccination groups will be completed and early indications are positive. The open border with NI will also just lead to people flying via Belfast. It was hinted at last week in certain political circles.

______

The travel ban isn't exactly working out.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/7 ... 40251.html

"Figures show 7,610 Irish residents who arrived back in the State between February 8 and 21 declared they were on holiday or a visit.

A further 1,430 non-residents who arrived into the country gave the same reason for travelling into the country."
Last edited by JAmie2k9 on Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:10 pm

kaitak wrote:
Despite these green shoots, they are just that - green shoots in a garden of triffids and quicksand. There is very little firm to go on. To use an aviation metaphor, the govenrment has effectively flicked on the autopilot, called NPHET and as we know from so many bad endings, over-reliance on the autopilot doesn't end well; it's a case of GIGO and an autopilot will quite happily fly you into the side of a mountain if you don't monitor what it is. That's no reflection on NPHET; it's doing its job and its remit doesn't extend to the rest of the economy and how it might recover.

The government does not give any impression of what it intends the post-Covid world and Irish economy to look like; there is very little sign of leadership. It is content to let NPHET do the flying for it and to sit back and watch. We can at least be thankful that it is not aiming for a "zero Covid" policy, as some have suggested, but beyond that, the demonisation of aviaiton continues, while one of the greatest contributors to economic growth and recovery is allowed to wither.


To be fair they were pressured into acting on travel by the public and opposition. They had little choice to do something and the travel issue is the about the only thing the general public agree across the political landscape and feel they should go further. Defeating the vote on hotel quarantine for all is positive but the vaccination rollout needs to keep cases down.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:28 am

Government looking at tighter restrictions for international travel

The Government is set to consider tighter restrictions on international travel as the Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has promised that a new system for mandatory hotel quarantine will be in place “within weeks”.

www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/governm ... 89502.html



Sharp decline in Irish expecting to travel abroad in 2021

The number of people expecting to travel internationally this year has fallen dramatically since the onset of the third wave of the coronavirus pandemic.

Almost 16 per cent of the public now say they intend to travel abroad this year, but the figure has fallen sharply since Ireland entered its third lockdown in late December.

www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/sharp-d ... 89433.html
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:28 am

Ryanair’s Cork Airport base to stay closed until winter ‘at the earliest’

Ryanair will not re-open its Cork Airport base until next winter at the earlierst , the airline said on Tuesday.

The carrier closed Cork last November in the face of ongoing Covid-19 travel restrictions, but indicated that it could re-open the base in April if conditions allowed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.4498984
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:44 am

OA260 wrote:
Ryanair’s Cork Airport base to stay closed until winter ‘at the earliest’

Ryanair will not re-open its Cork Airport base until next winter at the earlierst , the airline said on Tuesday.

The carrier closed Cork last November in the face of ongoing Covid-19 travel restrictions, but indicated that it could re-open the base in April if conditions allowed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.4498984


That is a sad, but expected outcome for the airport, I think. I hope that this is temporary and FR will be seen again. In the interim FR can operate from other bases, as they did in the Autumn. I can't see Summer 2021 being much of a year at this stage - the UK press has very mixed messages about summer travel and the Irish press and government messaging is almost entirely negative. Leaving your Eircode in August feels like it will be an achievement at this stage! On one had the vaccination programme is working well, but there are variants of concern and they seem to be very much associated with international movement. From the 8th of March UK residents will be required to declare the reason for travel to the government prior to travel, which all seems like it is going in the wrong direction. Simultaneously the same media outlets talk of EU vaccination passports, so the picture is very confusing.

ORK will be an interesting watch over the next few years. If FR do not come back the variety and number of airlines might go up - but there will always be the risk that FR would defend 'their' turf. The arrival of LH, AF, KL & IB will improve connectivity for the region.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10886
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:48 am

However, this seems to only really be saying that no aircraft will be based there.

Flights will still be flown from the other end.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:57 am

JAmie2k9 wrote:
The open border with NI will also just lead to people flying via Belfast.

Exactly. I've already heard this loophole being considered for holiday planning later in the year. The UK has taken a slightly more liberal approach with regard to free movement during the pandemic and along with its accelerated vaccine rollout, I reckon it's a safe bet that they'll have fine-free international travel before us. I think the mentality among some (rightly or wrongly) is "as soon as I get vaccinated, I'm gone".

I get the risks of new variants bubbling up which might undermine vaccine efficacy and therefore the public health message will probably be not to travel abroad, even when the majority of the population is vaccinated...but I can't see the levels of compliance sticking to what they are now if the northern loophole becomes a factor.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:22 am

AmricanShamrok wrote:

I get the risks of new variants bubbling up which might undermine vaccine efficacy and therefore the public health message will probably be not to travel abroad, even when the majority of the population is vaccinated...but I can't see the levels of compliance sticking to what they are now if the northern loophole becomes a factor.


The amount going against government advice will be the minority. You will always have people willing to risk it but the threat of travel insurance being void and sharing of data cross border will still deter many. Just the threat of fines crossing the border has reduced traffic by 80% and thats despite the checkpoints being removed two weeks ago. If the loophole gets to a point where its of concern those checkpoints will be back. New cameras have been installed at the border on the UK side with number plate recognition just last month. It just depends if the Irish government take a softly softly approach on enforcement while giving an official stronger advice/warnings. Dont forget people were having their PUP cut as they boarded flights last year.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:59 am

AmricanShamrok wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
I reckon it's a safe bet that they'll have fine-free international travel before us. I think the mentality among some (rightly or wrongly) is "as soon as I get vaccinated, I'm gone".

I get the risks of new variants bubbling up which might undermine vaccine efficacy and therefore the public health message will probably be not to travel abroad, even when the majority of the population is vaccinated...but I can't see the levels of compliance sticking to what they are now if the northern loophole becomes a factor.


I agree - but the prospective arrival country must be willing to accept foreign arrivals, so as of right now the vaccinated have few choices of where to go! It's not clear to me if vaccinated individuals will be allowed into country X regardless of the COVID rates in their country of residence, or if unvaccinated individuals will be admitted from countries with low rates ± a PCR test, a return of the traffic light system, if you like.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:41 am

Ryanair angry over 30% rise in air traffic control charges

New air traffic control tower and last year’s cuts behind ‘temporary’ increase, IAA says

Air traffic control charges have risen more than 30 per cent in the Republic this year, angering airline Ryanair.

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 4?mode=amp



Ibec says Ireland is overly reliant on Dublin

The country must prioritise the reduction of this imbalance and target growth in the regions

Specific investment priorities that IBEC want to see include progress on a light rail system for Cork, development of the city docks and Tivoli, increased financial support for Cork Airport and improved educational facilities at UCC, MTU and the Tyndall Institute.

www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/ ... l?type=amp
 
Fliplot
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:16 am

I wonder how much IBEC will contribute to their lofty plans? I guess we must have found the money tree again. The IDA do a good job of spreading firms around the country but in the end firms will locate where they want too.
 
YUAND
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:11 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:01 pm

Fliplot wrote:
I wonder how much IBEC will contribute to their lofty plans? I guess we must have found the money tree again. The IDA do a good job of spreading firms around the country but in the end firms will locate where they want too.


I do understand why people are saying Ireland is over reliant on Dublin and business is not spread around enough but it is easy to see why. Take the west in particular. Why would I locate in Limerick only to probably have to hike back to Dublin to fly anywhere when I can just locate in Dublin? Why would any prospective employee want to live in Limerick when they more than likely will need to hike to Dublin for concerts, any decent sort of shopping, major events etc when they can just live in Dublin and have it all there anyway? There are people who value the rural lifestyle and lower housing prices/density etc but in my opinion it is this very model of housing and living (low density) that is causing meaningful life in these regions to be increasingly unsustainable.

In aviation terms this is evident with most of the air service concentrated in DUB. ORK at least has some connections to hubs (FRA, AMS, CDG) but again it could be argued that if you value choice and frequency, DUB is the way to go. SNN literally has nothing except LHR and the summer seasonal FRA. That really does not do international businesses who want quick and easy access to offices much good when compared to DUB. For example, I did both CDG-Galway (via DUB) and CDG-DUB with DUB as my endpoint very regularly for years. CDG-DUB with DUB as the endpoint could be completed in as little as 4h30 door-to-door. CDG-Galway on the other hand was approx 7h-7h30 door-to-door, and longer at times which is basically a lost day. If I was a business setting up an international office I know which one I would be choosing!

In a previous post, I did highlight the existence of an excessive number of airports on the west coast that seem to more or less serve the same market (or could well do so with adequate transport links) and I do think this is the main issue contributing to the situation outlined above. Of course AF probably won't see value in serving ORK, SNN and NOC (and KIR if you want to stretch it) and serving all of those or even more than one would create a situation where the routes would compete with each other.

I think changing that situation would require an astronomical shift in the way society outside Dublin and Cork to a certain extent operates and the question going forward will be whether Ireland is capable as a society of making that change or whether it will continue to limp along and potentially die out eventually.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:14 pm

Ryanair hopes to fly up to 70% of 2019 passenger numbers this summer, thanks to Covid-19 vaccines and more coronavirus testing, group CEO Michael O'Leary said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... 1-outlook/
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:39 am

WATCH: Dublin Airport shares anniversary video of Beast from the East

Dublin Airport took to social media yesterday to share a video three years on from when the infamous Beast from the East hit.

https://lovindublin.com/amp/dublin/watc ... m-the-east



More modern marketing style needed for Shannon Airport say Clare reps

A more modern marketing campaign is needed to promote Shannon Airport for when the aviation sector begins picking up the pieces, Clare councillors have said.

www.clareecho.ie/more-modern-marketing- ... lare-reps/



Ryanair joins EU sustainable aviation fuel effort

Initiative brings together airlines, researchers and environmentalists to reach consensus on policy

Ryanair has joined EU efforts to develop sustainable fuel for air travel, part of its industry’s bid to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... 1?mode=amp
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:38 am

AmricanShamrok wrote:
Ryanair hopes to fly up to 70% of 2019 passenger numbers this summer, thanks to Covid-19 vaccines and more coronavirus testing, group CEO Michael O'Leary said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0 ... 1-outlook/

The actual quote isn't quite so optimistic. MOL says "perhaps 60-70% of 2019" even 60% is ambitious. Outside perhaps Israel the vaccination programme is not going quickly. Even in the UK only about 5% have had the complete dosage. This will increase rapidly in coming weeks as the people like me who had their first does in January become eligible for their second. I think the data from the single dose regimen has been very, very encouraging, but I haven't seen any countries that are proposing allowing entry with a single dose. With 2/3rds of the UK population still to receive a first dose a 12 week gape and 2-4 weeks before "full" protection and borders effectively closed across Europe, I dont see how FR can be forecasting anything close to 60% even from UK bases, let alone intra-EU where the vaccination rates are low and infection rates remain high? The timelines just don't add up.
YUAND wrote:
I think changing that situation would require an astronomical shift in the way society outside Dublin and Cork to a certain extent operates and the question going forward will be whether Ireland is capable as a society of making that change or whether it will continue to limp along and potentially die out eventually.

It's going to be an interesting watch. The big unknown is if, when and how people will return to urban living when their job does not require daily presence in a fixed location. Would you be happy to live in Thurles, for example, despite the 2 hour drive to Dublin if you were only going in 1 or 2 days a week? There maybe other attractions such as Granny Daycare and cheaper accommodation. Again if you are not on the road everyday you may not riding the drive to Cork/Dublin etc for shopping or leisure. Rebalancing is possible, but I think DUB will always function as the primary hub of Aviation in this country, the motorway network supports it, the PSO network supports it and the upcoming public transport links do too.

A few threads back the possibility of a new airport in the midlands was proposed. Given the road links to DUB from the major cities and PSO from CFN and KIR, I wonder where would actually have a shorter journey? South Dublin and Wicklow would be the obvious winners?
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1885
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:54 am

JAmie2k9 wrote:
.........
The travel ban isn't exactly working out.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/7 ... 40251.html

"Figures show 7,610 Irish residents who arrived back in the State between February 8 and 21 declared they were on holiday or a visit.

A further 1,430 non-residents who arrived into the country gave the same reason for travelling into the country."

This is why Ive been in favour our of mandatory qurantine and testing upon arrival since last summer.
If.



Also; we arent doing great at the vaccine but then we arent the worst either;

https://www.breakingnews.ie/covid-vacci ... i4Cq149vrY
 
dstc47
Posts: 1511
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:59 am

BrianDromey wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
Ryanair hopes to fly up to 70% of 2019 passenger numbers this summer, thanks to Covid-19 vaccines and more coronavirus testing, group CEO Michael O'Leary said.
A few threads back the possibility of a new airport in the midlands was proposed. Given the road links to DUB from the major cities and PSO from CFN and KIR, I wonder where would actually have a shorter journey? South Dublin and Wicklow would be the obvious winners?


In this virus shows anything, it is that you cant be too pessimistic, even one year on. The very slow progress in vaccination, outside of Israel, should signal the very long timescale of airline recovery.

Hard to say where an airport in the Midlands would find traffic. S Dublin and Wicklow all have reasonable access to DUB, if the M 50 is open and much of Wicklow is "shielded" from the Midlands by the limited routes over the mountains.
 
EIEIDW
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:30 am

According to twitter, Ryanair are launching 8 new routes from Belfast City airport to Malaga, Faro, Alicante, Milan, Valencia, Palma, Ibiza and Barcelona. Flights start from the 1st of June.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/13 ... 7368428545
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:50 am

EIEIDW wrote:
According to twitter, Ryanair are launching 8 new routes from Belfast City airport to Malaga, Faro, Alicante, Milan, Valencia, Palma, Ibiza and Barcelona. Flights start from the 1st of June.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/13 ... 7368428545


Great news for BHD and some great fares also from GBP£39 return.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:55 am

EIEIDW wrote:
According to twitter, Ryanair are launching 8 new routes from Belfast City airport to Malaga, Faro, Alicante, Milan, Valencia, Palma, Ibiza and Barcelona. Flights start from the 1st of June.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/13 ... 7368428545

Are these FRs first European routes from BHD? It’s Going to be an interesting watch for sure, the destination mix is interesting too being the Iberian peninsula. Greece would have seemed a safer bet, but I guess it’s just too far for BHDs runway.
It’s a shame EI didn’t get in there first but it’s going to be a real acid test of the vaccination program. Joe Duffys lines will be live with stories of people reporting others crossing the border for a fortnight in Faro.
 
shamrock321
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:35 am

Will the Ryanair 737-800s have any restrictions with high loads in the summer using the BHD runway for flights to AGP etc?
 
Fliplot
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:23 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:47 am

A genuine miss for EI! Sleeping again.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:34 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
EIEIDW wrote:
According to twitter, Ryanair are launching 8 new routes from Belfast City airport to Malaga, Faro, Alicante, Milan, Valencia, Palma, Ibiza and Barcelona. Flights start from the 1st of June.

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/13 ... 7368428545

Are these FRs first European routes from BHD? It’s Going to be an interesting watch for sure, the destination mix is interesting too being the Iberian peninsula. Greece would have seemed a safer bet, but I guess it’s just too far for BHDs runway.
It’s a shame EI didn’t get in there first but it’s going to be a real acid test of the vaccination program. Joe Duffys lines will be live with stories of people reporting others crossing the border for a fortnight in Faro.


EI did but dropped them. They had AGP, FAO, ALC and PMI.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:36 pm

shamrock321 wrote:
Will the Ryanair 737-800s have any restrictions with high loads in the summer using the BHD runway for flights to AGP etc?


Most likely I would assume so, as this was the grumble and the basis of their withdrawal from BHD in the first place. I believe the FR press machine at the time was indicating a max passenger load of about 80% capacity on routes previously served. That coupled with the airport failing in it's attempt to secure planning permission for a 600m extension at the Holywood end of the runway.

Maybe the runway extension has been approved, maybe they have a tasty commercial offer from BHD, who knows at this stage but I'm sure BFS aren't best pleased.

https://www.belfastcityairport.com/news ... summer2021
 
IrishLessor
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:46 pm

They have some 738s with short field performance, so new routes planned should be OK without restrictions on loads.
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:15 pm

Clearly done because FR don’t believe DUB will be an option for most people
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:58 pm

IrishLessor wrote:
They have some 738s with short field performance, so new routes planned should be OK without restrictions on loads.


Would make sense as they seem to be allowing advance seat selection for all rows back to 33 on various flights.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 2197
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:11 pm

10% increase in arrivals into Dublin Airport last week

Data taken from surveys of arriving passengers show that arrivals into the airport increased by more than 10% between 22 and 28 of February, compared to the previous week. In total 11,067 people arrived into the country during the period.

The data also showed that 7,261 Irish residents arrived into the country during this period, while 4,346 non-residents arrived.

Of the reasons given for travel, 'returning from holiday/visit' was the most popular, followed by travelling for work or business, visiting a sick relative, medical reasons, or for a funeral.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/202 ... us-travel/
 
shamrock321
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:08 pm

I arrived in Dublin on Feb 16th and when asked said I had been on holiday...which is true but I did leave a year earlier and stayed because it meant I could stay with my partner and not be locked away from him. I do wonder how many people were in a similar situation and weren’t actually on a 2 week jolly off somewhere...
 
Eirules
Posts: 2055
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:15 pm

shamrock321 wrote:
I arrived in Dublin on Feb 16th and when asked said I had been on holiday...which is true but I did leave a year earlier and stayed because it meant I could stay with my partner and not be locked away from him. I do wonder how many people were in a similar situation and weren’t actually on a 2 week jolly off somewhere...


Oh no it’s definitely not that. That wouldn’t suit the narrative...
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:53 pm

I think eventually the government are going to loose on the travel ban front. Two major travel insurance firms have announced that they will cover the majority of things even under “No non essential travel” advice. That had been a real deterrent but removed now.
 
User avatar
Dublinspotter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:24 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:10 pm

Evening,

Just seen the news about FR @ BHD. Initial thought was "oh dear here we go again"... but this time there are differences as mentioned by others above. Some of the differences include:
- FR offering a European offering this time, as opposed to an exclusively UK market previously.
- They have a 'base' at BFS. Will FR end up closing ops at BFS??
- Shortfield capable 737NGs in service. Will the MAX200s on order also help FR in getting more bums off BHD's runway each time?

I can't help but think FR will develop commitment issues at some point, but if that does happen as things are right now BHD is in a much healthier position having spread their eggs across many different baskets. Frankly, any form of aviation-related announcements in NI is welcome.

Stay safe,
Dublinspotter.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:11 pm

Condor Operates for DHL on Shannon Route

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/02/con ... fcwzdoIeFs
 
User avatar
Jambost
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:15 pm

Great news for BHD, does this show that FR cannot directly compete with U2 at BFS or is there more to it?
 
veron
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 7:47 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:26 pm

Glad to see Ryanair back at BHD. With the loss of Flybe then Covid hitting, it is welcome news. It gives us more choice for Euro trips, which is great as I usually have to travel from Belfast to Dublin to catch the best fares!

I wasn't aware FR had aircraft with short field performance. The longest route seems to be Faro. Does anyone know for definite if they will have to limit passengers? I've had a quick look at the differences between the regular 737-800 and those with SFP. How many do FR have and are there any external visual differences I could look out for when I'm spotting?

Thanks

Kevin
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:53 pm

BDKLEZ wrote:
shamrock321 wrote:
Will the Ryanair 737-800s have any restrictions with high loads in the summer using the BHD runway for flights to AGP etc?


Most likely I would assume so, as this was the grumble and the basis of their withdrawal from BHD in the first place. I believe the FR press machine at the time was indicating a max passenger load of about 80% capacity on routes previously served. That coupled with the airport failing in it's attempt to secure planning permission for a 600m extension at the Holywood end of the runway.

Maybe the runway extension has been approved, maybe they have a tasty commercial offer from BHD, who knows at this stage but I'm sure BFS aren't best pleased.

https://www.belfastcityairport.com/news ... summer2021


I'm not sure where this "severe weight restriction" rumour with Ryanair at BHD years ago ever came from, but it was complete nonsense. Flights on these routes were often carrying loads around 170-180 in and out. The issue was more that they couldn't fly much further afield at the time.
 
S0Y
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:49 am

Eagleboy wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
.........
The travel ban isn't exactly working out.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/7 ... 40251.html

"Figures show 7,610 Irish residents who arrived back in the State between February 8 and 21 declared they were on holiday or a visit.

A further 1,430 non-residents who arrived into the country gave the same reason for travelling into the country."

This is why Ive been in favour our of mandatory qurantine and testing upon arrival since last summer.
If.



Also; we arent doing great at the vaccine but then we arent the worst either;

https://www.breakingnews.ie/covid-vacci ... i4Cq149vrY


Perhaps they should introduce mandatory anal swabs for arrivals like China has. Suspect that would deter much of the less essential travel :white:
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25781
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:31 am

New funding to support the Derry to London air service for the next two years

News welcomed a great boost for City of Derry Airport

More funding is being made to support the future of City of Derry Airport.

The Northern Ireland Executive and the British government's Department of Transport have agreed to continue to provide around £4m in funding for the crucial Derry to London service run by Loganair over the next two years.

www.derrynow.com/news/news/614566/new-f ... years.html



McNamara raises aviation concerns with Tánaiste

Clare Independent T.D. Michael McNamara has questioned Tánaiste Leo Varadkar about Ryanair’s announcement of 8 new routes from Belfast, commencing on June 1st.

http://clareherald.com/2021/03/mcnamara ... ste-29011/



Planning granted for new aircraft hangar at Ireland West Airport Knock

Mayo County Council has granted planning permission to an aviation company for the construction of a new aircraft hangar at Ireland West Airport Knock.

Eirtrade Aviation Ireland Ltd has been operating from an existing hangar facility at the airport for the past 10 years, and is seeking to expand the scale and scope of its services.

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/ ... port-knock
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 5318
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:41 pm

OA260 wrote:
The Northern Ireland Executive and the British government's Department of Transport have agreed to continue to provide around £4m in funding for the crucial Derry to London service run by Loganair over the next two years.

http://www.derrynow.com/news/news/61456 ... years.html


This is all well and good - I'm always happy to see a PSO route continued.

A PSO route is ostensibly supposed to fund a route until such time as it can sustain itself. That is the whole point of them being put in place. What I do wonder about these routes in Ireland, so that would also include Kerry and Donegal, is this.

Are efforts being made at a local level to attract business to the areas within the catchment of those airports? The only way these airports will eventually have self-sustaining routes is if there is industry and business nearby who need to use the airport. Is this happening in places like Killarney and Tralee for Kerry? I've been to Donegal Airport and it's pretty rural all around there. Derry of course is a city but it's not a big one by any stretch, at least from what I could see - so are the NI Executive attracting business there?

If not, these PSO routes will always be PSO routes.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2355
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:49 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
OA260 wrote:
The Northern Ireland Executive and the British government's Department of Transport have agreed to continue to provide around £4m in funding for the crucial Derry to London service run by Loganair over the next two years.

http://www.derrynow.com/news/news/61456 ... years.html


This is all well and good - I'm always happy to see a PSO route continued.

A PSO route is ostensibly supposed to fund a route until such time as it can sustain itself. That is the whole point of them being put in place. What I do wonder about these routes in Ireland, so that would also include Kerry and Donegal, is this.

Are efforts being made at a local level to attract business to the areas within the catchment of those airports? The only way these airports will eventually have self-sustaining routes is if there is industry and business nearby who need to use the airport. Is this happening in places like Killarney and Tralee for Kerry? I've been to Donegal Airport and it's pretty rural all around there. Derry of course is a city but it's not a big one by any stretch, at least from what I could see - so are the NI Executive attracting business there?

If not, these PSO routes will always be PSO routes.

That isn't my understanding of the purpose of PSO routes. I thought it was to connect far off/rural areas with a major hub where ground transport infrastructure between those two points or to the nearest main airport is inadequate in terms of commute time (i.e. it's about 3.5 hours by road from Killarney to DUB). When the M4/M6 motorways were developed, I think that's why the PSOs for the DUB-GWY, DUB-SXL and DUB-NOC routes were withdrawn.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
Posts: 10109
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Irish 3/21: stuck on the runway

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm

I was reading about an interview with Leo Varadkar today and he was saying that he doesn't like the use of the term "vaccine passport" because people associate "passport" with foreign travel. He was thinking of it was a "permit", but it does seem to suggest that the government is content to ignore all of the pleas about help for the airline industry. It may be that he wants to maintain a strong govermment line on the issue and not allow an accusation of inconsistency, but it does underline the feeling that the govenrment (for now) is trying to dampen any hope of change to foreign travel rules.

As of today, most of Europe, apart from a small piece of Norway, north of Bergen, and a small piece of NW Spain are amber; Ireland has moved from dark red to just red (well, it's progress, I suppose). The big question is whether they have a strategy to deal with any change in UK travel rules. Of course, it's now March and the planned UK change is in June (and they haven't committed themselves to this), but I am sure they are aware of the potential threat. It's going to be pretty much impossible to prevent people who do want to travel from travelling. As one tweet put it, "if you want to stop people flooding up to Belfast, have a coherent policy down here". However, I suspect that the one thing they absolutely do not want is to set any dates or say anything concrete.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos