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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:13 pm

There was also the suggestion that VA could 'wet lease' the slot to NH by operating the flight as a VA marketed wet leased flight under a "Virgin Australia operated by All Nippon" arrangement, but at the same time QF could contest this (by arguing that VA should be operating their own aircraft and not wet leasing from a partner) if VA went that route.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:17 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Are VA's HND slots actually within the gift of the Australian authorities, or does the decision power rest with Japan? Sure, the route allocation was granted by the Aus authorities after international negotiations allowed an increase, but does this extend also to the slots themselves?

The Australian Government allocate the slots through the IASC. I don't believe they are available for reallocation yet though because there was an extension given to both airlines as they were unable to commence flights due to the pandemic.


No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.

So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:17 am

DavidByrne wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Australian Government allocate the slots through the IASC. I don't believe they are available for reallocation yet though because there was an extension given to both airlines as they were unable to commence flights due to the pandemic.


No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.

So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.

I don't believe they can be given to another country as the Japanese Government allocated the extra HND slots by country. I guess it would be possible to allocate them to another country if no Australian airline applied for the slots but this is unlikely to happen and either QF or VA will use all the available HND slots allocated to Australia.

I don't know if it is still current but I also believe NZ were also able to access Australian rights at one stage but the services had to originate in Australia which would mean that, in theory, they could also operate from Australia to HND.. From memory, the only they used these rights was direct SYD-LAX services back in the early 2000s.
Last edited by tullamarine on Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:20 am

DavidByrne wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
The Australian Government allocate the slots through the IASC. I don't believe they are available for reallocation yet though because there was an extension given to both airlines as they were unable to commence flights due to the pandemic.


No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.

So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.


If VA give them up (or more likely taken off them) then they would either go to Qantas or sit dormant until either VA or QF (or another Australian airline) wants them. The Haneda traffic rights are allocated to the country, how each country then uses them is up to the respective national governments.

As the traffic rights are allocated at the country-country level, confiscating them from Australia would be a diplomatic move, and inevitably would have to come with something in return.

If returning to Japan makes sense for VA in the future (and it isn’t clear to me that it does make sense) then they can fly to Narita without restriction.

I say it doesn’t make sense as VA towards the end didn’t have much direction, and was seeing what would stick with the A330s. Initially all 6 were for domestic but that was too much capacity, then they tried to HKG which was a disaster, so they jumped on HND as Japan-Australia was growing rapidly pre-COVID and there was a once-in-a-decade chance to get into Haneda. Whether it ever made sense is unclear, the decision seemed entirely reactionary, and IMHO they only did it because it was less-bad than other options. Whether anything ever comes of the NH partnership only time will tell.
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:15 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.

So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.


If VA give them up (or more likely taken off them) then they would either go to Qantas or sit dormant until either VA or QF (or another Australian airline) wants them. The Haneda traffic rights are allocated to the country, how each country then uses them is up to the respective national governments.

As the traffic rights are allocated at the country-country level, confiscating them from Australia would be a diplomatic move, and inevitably would have to come with something in return.

If returning to Japan makes sense for VA in the future (and it isn’t clear to me that it does make sense) then they can fly to Narita without restriction.

I say it doesn’t make sense as VA towards the end didn’t have much direction, and was seeing what would stick with the A330s. Initially all 6 were for domestic but that was too much capacity, then they tried to HKG which was a disaster, so they jumped on HND as Japan-Australia was growing rapidly pre-COVID and there was a once-in-a-decade chance to get into Haneda. Whether it ever made sense is unclear, the decision seemed entirely reactionary, and IMHO they only did it because it was less-bad than other options. Whether anything ever comes of the NH partnership only time will tell.

At the time, both QF and VA were attracted by a potential high yielding boom associated with the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. As we now know, they didn't happen and were deferred to 2021 and, whilst it is still questionable whether they will actually take place, it is highly unlikely the Games will be held in front of any crowds so the one-off sugar hit won't happen.
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:28 am

Does ISAC have the ability to issue the rights for a set period of time? For example, grant the VA slot to QF so it is used but only for a 12 month period (or some other length) after which it reverts?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:13 am

tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.

So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.

I don't believe they can be given to another country as the Japanese Government allocated the extra HND slots by country. I guess it would be possible to allocate them to another country if no Australian airline applied for the slots but this is unlikely to happen and either QF or VA will use all the available HND slots allocated to Australia.

I don't know if it is still current but I also believe NZ were also able to access Australian rights at one stage but the services had to originate in Australia which would mean that, in theory, they could also operate from Australia to HND.. From memory, the only they used these rights was direct SYD-LAX services back in the early 2000s.


I do recall NZ had a number of AU-Asia fifth freedom flights out of SYD and BNE from sighting an old NZ route map dated in the mid 90s. Those flights, I'm assuming ended during the Asian financial crisis of the late 90s.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:16 am

SCFlyer wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
So does this mean that if VA gives up their rights to the route, then the competent Japanese authorities would reallocate the slots - and that these could be given to an airline of another country altogether? To me this would be logical.

I don't believe they can be given to another country as the Japanese Government allocated the extra HND slots by country. I guess it would be possible to allocate them to another country if no Australian airline applied for the slots but this is unlikely to happen and either QF or VA will use all the available HND slots allocated to Australia.

I don't know if it is still current but I also believe NZ were also able to access Australian rights at one stage but the services had to originate in Australia which would mean that, in theory, they could also operate from Australia to HND.. From memory, the only they used these rights was direct SYD-LAX services back in the early 2000s.


I do recall NZ had a number of AU-Asia fifth freedom flights out of SYD and BNE from sighting an old NZ route map dated in the mid 90s. Those flights, I'm assuming ended during the Asian financial crisis of the late 90s.

I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.
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Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:02 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.


Not quite right, although close but this not a normal case. For HND the Japaneese government allocates traffic rights & slots to a COUNTRY [obviously Australia in this case]. It is then up to the country reciveing the rights/slots to allocate them to a specific airline, this is what IASC did. As far as non operation [COVID] goes it is what the Japaneese government says goes. If VA can't operate them when the grace period is up, then either Australia reallocates or we hand them back. Somehow I don't think C of A or QF would be keen on handing them back.

Gemuser
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:24 am

Gemuser wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
No, the IASC allocates traffic rights. Only the designated slot coordinator for HND can allocate arrival and departure slots for that airport. Traffic rights are useless without the slots, and the slots are useless without the traffic rights. In theory, and in normal circumstances, VA would need to relinquish both or have them removed for non-performance - in the reality of the current situation, it's unlikely VA can mount an argument to retain their traffic rights beyond any COVID-related grace periods (given one of the IASC criteria requires a carrier to be able to operate the traffic rights) so in all likelihood if QF asks for them to be reallocated the IASC won't have much choice.


Not quite right, although close but this not a normal case. For HND the Japaneese government allocates traffic rights & slots to a COUNTRY [obviously Australia in this case]. It is then up to the country reciveing the rights/slots to allocate them to a specific airline, this is what IASC did. As far as non operation [COVID] goes it is what the Japaneese government says goes. If VA can't operate them when the grace period is up, then either Australia reallocates or we hand them back. Somehow I don't think C of A or QF would be keen on handing them back.

Gemuser


DeltaB717 is pretty much correct. The traffic right is allocated to the country, and has a specific timeframe (0600-2200 or 2200-0600) but the actual slot is still allocated in the normal way.

It is ancient history now, but IASC wanted to conclude the application process for the traffic rights by late 2019 as the summer 2020 slot conference was in early January 2020. That way the successful carriers were able to secure commercially viable slots, otherwise they would have been granted whatever was left after allocation to the other airlines.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:43 am

tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I don't believe they can be given to another country as the Japanese Government allocated the extra HND slots by country. I guess it would be possible to allocate them to another country if no Australian airline applied for the slots but this is unlikely to happen and either QF or VA will use all the available HND slots allocated to Australia.

I don't know if it is still current but I also believe NZ were also able to access Australian rights at one stage but the services had to originate in Australia which would mean that, in theory, they could also operate from Australia to HND.. From memory, the only they used these rights was direct SYD-LAX services back in the early 2000s.


I do recall NZ had a number of AU-Asia fifth freedom flights out of SYD and BNE from sighting an old NZ route map dated in the mid 90s. Those flights, I'm assuming ended during the Asian financial crisis of the late 90s.

I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.


NZ ran BNE-BKK/TPE/KIX/GMP. I think also a SYD-GMP service. Not sure when they started, possibly around 1994 ended with the Asian Financial crisis around 1998. AN ran a SYD-KUL and GMP service.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:35 am

JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:37 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

I do recall NZ had a number of AU-Asia fifth freedom flights out of SYD and BNE from sighting an old NZ route map dated in the mid 90s. Those flights, I'm assuming ended during the Asian financial crisis of the late 90s.

I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.


NZ ran BNE-BKK/TPE/KIX/GMP. I think also a SYD-GMP service. Not sure when they started, possibly around 1994 ended with the Asian Financial crisis around 1998. AN ran a SYD-KUL and GMP service.


From what I recall, AN's short lived GMP flights was also via BNE on the return leg (it made the local news at the time being AN's 2nd '747' flight into BNE after KIX). GMP didn't last long on both NZ and AN, operating roughly for a year (or two in NZ's case) IIRC.

GMP was similar to AN's old SYD-KIX-BNE-SYD service.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:13 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights

Obviously OOL is one route JQ would look at growing and it is a REX route but other domestic tourist oriented routes such as CNS or HTI would also be targets for JQ. In those cases, JQ would be competing against VA and QF mainline. QF are not releasing huge capacity on their own metal yet with only a few A332s back in service.

I've been looking at taking a holiday up north during winter and, even out of school holidays, I'm astounded at the airfare prices. Sure, QF is suffering from no international and both VA and QF will be feeling the reduced traffic on triangle services but the tourist routes are going off the charts and I'm sure both are making serious coin on those routes.
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qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:18 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights

Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.
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Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:23 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
DeltaB717 is pretty much correct. The traffic right is allocated to the country, and has a specific timeframe (0600-2200 or 2200-0600) but the actual slot is still allocated in the normal way.

It is ancient history now, but IASC wanted to conclude the application process for the traffic rights by late 2019 as the summer 2020 slot conference was in early January 2020. That way the successful carriers were able to secure commercially viable slots, otherwise they would have been granted whatever was left after allocation to the other airlines.

My understanding was that the slot were tied to the traffic rights very specifically by the Japanese government & could not be traded/sold/leased as they are "normally".

Gemuser
 
Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:26 am

tullamarine wrote:
I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.

No, the NZ fifth freedom rights were older than that, they went back to the early 1970s, at least, quite possabily back to the 1960s

Gemuser
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:31 am

qf2048 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights

Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.


Agreed. CNS used to see regular QF 763 back in the day. As long as there is national agreement on state borders, I'm sure CNS would welcome everyone it can get.
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richcandy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:02 am

tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:



I don't know if it is still current but I also believe NZ were also able to access Australian rights at one stage but the services had to originate in Australia which would mean that, in theory, they could also operate from Australia to HND.. From memory, the only they used these rights was direct SYD-LAX services back in the early 2000s.


In the late 1990's NZ had a direct LAX-SYD service. On UK fares there was towards the end of the service a slight discount if pax would route via SYD. Example the fare LHR-LAX-SYD-AKL was slightly lower than LHR-LAX-AKL. It used to take a lot of explaining to travel agents who just couldn't understand that this was the case.

NZ timetable eft 1st May 1997
NZ15 LAX SYD 2300 0640+2 744 DX12
NZ14 SYD LAX 1535 1200 744 DX12

Alex
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:35 am

Kent350787 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights

Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.


Agreed. CNS used to see regular QF 763 back in the day. As long as there is national agreement on state borders, I'm sure CNS would welcome everyone it can get.

QF had a daily SYD-CNS-SYD rotation with a A332 up until Covid hit last year.
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A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:43 am

Kent350787 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
JQ 787s for domestic routes? Sounds like another way for QF to target Rex with low JQ fares and plenty of 787 capacity?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... er-flights

Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.


Agreed. CNS used to see regular QF 763 back in the day. As long as there is national agreement on state borders, I'm sure CNS would welcome everyone it can get.


Was looking at CNS flights for June the other day and noticed QF has scheduled 332s for the daily morning/early afternoon rotation on MEL-CNS-MEL, plus an additional afternoon/evening rotation on 738 on at least some days, maybe even daily (didn’t check). Quite a bit of additional capacity to your normal pre-COVID 738 on the single daily nonstop.
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:42 am

JQ have A321 scheduled between CNS-SYD on some flights in August already.
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Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:43 am

Cheers guys - I suppose that shows me how long since I was in CNS.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:06 am

A350OZ wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.


Agreed. CNS used to see regular QF 763 back in the day. As long as there is national agreement on state borders, I'm sure CNS would welcome everyone it can get.


Was looking at CNS flights for June the other day and noticed QF has scheduled 332s for the daily morning/early afternoon rotation on MEL-CNS-MEL, plus an additional afternoon/evening rotation on 738 on at least some days, maybe even daily (didn’t check). Quite a bit of additional capacity to your normal pre-COVID 738 on the single daily nonstop.

Well they did this in 2019 when they had twice daily MEL-CNS with one being on A332.... Both flights leave within about two hours from each other. So this is not entirely 100% new although the arvo/evening timing sounds more interesting.

Michael
 
Mbowlesy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:46 am

A350OZ wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Might be good for SYD/MEL-CNS type routes over the winter months.


Agreed. CNS used to see regular QF 763 back in the day. As long as there is national agreement on state borders, I'm sure CNS would welcome everyone it can get.


Was looking at CNS flights for June the other day and noticed QF has scheduled 332s for the daily morning/early afternoon rotation on MEL-CNS-MEL, plus an additional afternoon/evening rotation on 738 on at least some days, maybe even daily (didn’t check). Quite a bit of additional capacity to your normal pre-COVID 738 on the single daily nonstop.


Looks like both SYD-CNS and MEL-CNS have daily QF A330 services from the end of March. CBR-CNS looks to be back 3 weekly as well.
 
TN486T
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:43 pm

Re post 77. QF timetable eff Nov 1 1972 shows SYD - HKG - LON 707 services with intermediate stops ceased Nov 30 1972. There was a massive rejigging of services across the broad structure of QF services worldwide eff 1 Dec 72, too numerous to detail here. If you are interested in more detailed info, please PM me. cheers all.
 
Gangurru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:51 pm

Gemuser wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.

No, the NZ fifth freedom rights were older than that, they went back to the early 1970s, at least, quite possabily back to the 1960s

Gemuser


NZ’s 5th Freedom rights started with the 1960s when Dc8s flew to SIN and HKG via Australia. The introduction of longer range DC10s/747s meant these flights went nonstop.

Their peak 5th Freedom period was in the early 1990s when they flew from Australia to BKK, TPE, ICN and LAX. Asian ports were 767s over BNE and LAX was a 744 from SYD.

These services all ended before the relationship with AN started. In the early 1990s AN was a major competitor to NZ with Ansett NZ. It’s Australian domestic partner was TN at this time.
 
Gangurru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm

The Australian government will offer half price domestic fares from April to July.

13 points including the more distant Cairns, Uluru, Broome, Alice Springs or Whitsundays will be on offer.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-10/ ... s/13235432

Hopefully this initiative entices the travelling public, and boosts the confidence of stood down airline workers and struggling tourism industries.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 pm

NZ “currently” (ie pre-COVID) operates SYD-RAR as well. And, of course, SYD/BNE-NLK.
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Velocity7
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:02 pm

Gangurru wrote:
The Australian government will offer half price domestic fares from April to July.

13 points including the more distant Cairns, Uluru, Broome, Alice Springs or Whitsundays will be on offer.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-10/ ... s/13235432

Hopefully this initiative entices the travelling public, and boosts the confidence of stood down airline workers and struggling tourism industries.


I think the idea is a good one, support the industry as opposed to one part of it but the cynic in me says watch for a fare increase by the airlines just before this happens. I've been looking at fares to some of those destinations for the past month and they are already higher than what I was anticipating. Fares to AYQ/ASP from BNE are crazy expensive already.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:37 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
NZ “currently” (ie pre-COVID) operates SYD-RAR as well. And, of course, SYD/BNE-NLK.

I believe QF are currently operating SYD/BNE-NLK services.


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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:23 am

Gangurru wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I don't recall that. Is it possible that these were codeshares on AN aircraft? At the time NZ owned 50% of AN.

No, the NZ fifth freedom rights were older than that, they went back to the early 1970s, at least, quite possabily back to the 1960s

Gemuser


NZ’s 5th Freedom rights started with the 1960s when Dc8s flew to SIN and HKG via Australia. The introduction of longer range DC10s/747s meant these flights went nonstop.

Their peak 5th Freedom period was in the early 1990s when they flew from Australia to BKK, TPE, ICN and LAX. Asian ports were 767s over BNE and LAX was a 744 from SYD.

These services all ended before the relationship with AN started. In the early 1990s AN was a major competitor to NZ with Ansett NZ. It’s Australian domestic partner was TN at this time.


Quiet the decent hub in BNE for NZ how frequent were these flights? Once or twice weekly?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:53 am

smi0006 wrote:
Gangurru wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
No, the NZ fifth freedom rights were older than that, they went back to the early 1970s, at least, quite possabily back to the 1960s

Gemuser


NZ’s 5th Freedom rights started with the 1960s when Dc8s flew to SIN and HKG via Australia. The introduction of longer range DC10s/747s meant these flights went nonstop.

Their peak 5th Freedom period was in the early 1990s when they flew from Australia to BKK, TPE, ICN and LAX. Asian ports were 767s over BNE and LAX was a 744 from SYD.

These services all ended before the relationship with AN started. In the early 1990s AN was a major competitor to NZ with Ansett NZ. It’s Australian domestic partner was TN at this time.


Quiet the decent hub in BNE for NZ how frequent were these flights? Once or twice weekly?

Yes, around once or twice a week for each destination. Some of the flights used BNE as a scissor hub: arriving from AKL and CHC and departing for different Asian destinations.
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:10 am

There was no 'ICN' when NZ flew from BNE to South Korea, the airport NZ and AN flew to was GMP (was then SEL).

Also referring to an earlier post, If I recall AN and NZ had never codeshared on each other's AU-Asia services before and after NZ acquired a 50% stake in AN.
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:02 am

Hi every one, little confused here if Victoria is still not taking international pax, then what's coming in on the Chinese airliners that are still flying here, United, SQ and so forth, they cant be all freight and parking at the International terminal at Melbourne even Cathay Pacific flying 777s into Melbourne and parking at the gate. I flew down to Tassie back in late January waiting for our flight I saw United and QF 787 and A330 at the gates as well as Shanghai Airlines and a CZ A380, so is Melbourne taking international pax?
 
ArtV
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:40 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
Hi every one, little confused here if Victoria is still not taking international pax, then what's coming in on the Chinese airliners that are still flying here, United, SQ and so forth, they cant be all freight and parking at the International terminal at Melbourne even Cathay Pacific flying 777s into Melbourne and parking at the gate. I flew down to Tassie back in late January waiting for our flight I saw United and QF 787 and A330 at the gates as well as Shanghai Airlines and a CZ A380, so is Melbourne taking international pax?


Inbound for freight only, outbound for pax and freight.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:41 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
Hi every one, little confused here if Victoria is still not taking international pax, then what's coming in on the Chinese airliners that are still flying here, United, SQ and so forth, they cant be all freight and parking at the International terminal at Melbourne even Cathay Pacific flying 777s into Melbourne and parking at the gate. I flew down to Tassie back in late January waiting for our flight I saw United and QF 787 and A330 at the gates as well as Shanghai Airlines and a CZ A380, so is Melbourne taking international pax?


No, definitely all cargo (inbound at least).

SYD is the same re parking on contact stands. The number of cargo stands is woefully inadequate for the number of dedicated cargo flights passing though these days. Even seen FedEx parked at a contact stand at T1 at SYD a couple of weeks ago.
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b747400erf
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:26 am

Is VH-VOZ going for cargo conversion in Singapore?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:13 am

b747400erf wrote:
Is VH-VOZ going for cargo conversion in Singapore?


Maintenance I would presume? Unless it’s a leased one being prepared to return?
 
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VHTAE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:09 am

According to https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... lia/34j2q9 VH-VOZ is returning to Aviator Capital.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:37 pm

b747400erf wrote:
Is VH-VOZ going for cargo conversion in Singapore?

Only 77W conversion site is TLV right now so no definitely not conversion in Singapore

Michael
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:54 am

eamondzhang wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
Is VH-VOZ going for cargo conversion in Singapore?

Only 77W conversion site is TLV right now so no definitely not conversion in Singapore

Michael


Another forum is mentioning an engine change... Maybe a leased engine being changed for an owned engine
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:18 am

aschachter wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
Is VH-VOZ going for cargo conversion in Singapore?

Only 77W conversion site is TLV right now so no definitely not conversion in Singapore

Michael


Another forum is mentioning an engine change... Maybe a leased engine being changed for an owned engine


Considering multiple site reports that it's returning to lessor, I don't think they'll be putting a "owned" engine in a leased unit. Would likely be an engine owned by the leasing company if that's the case.
 
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YMHBSpotting
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:16 am

Any idea if there are any Qantas or QantasLink birds still in the 1986-2007 livery? I know there were still a few 717s and 737s a few years back
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vhqpa
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:21 am

YMHBSpotting wrote:
Any idea if there are any Qantas or QantasLink birds still in the 1986-2007 livery? I know there were still a few 717s and 737s a few years back


As far as I know everything is either in Newroo (Do we still call it that?) or Silveroo

The last couple of VY 73Hs have been painted in Silveroo, as far as I know they were the last mainline fleet members to wear 84-07 colours. Checking the FR24 thumbnails all NX 717s are in Newroo or Silveroo as are all the Dash 8s.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:13 am

YMHBSpotting wrote:
Any idea if there are any Qantas or QantasLink birds still in the 1986-2007 livery? I know there were still a few 717s and 737s a few years back

VH-OJA sitting at Wollongong Airport :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

Michael
 
Auchmithie
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:36 am

YMHBSpotting wrote:
Any idea if there are any Qantas or QantasLink birds still in the 1986-2007 livery? I know there were still a few 717s and 737s a few years back


The last mainline aircraft in the old-old scheme was VH-VYF which went direct from old-old-Roo to Silver Roo at TSV 21/02/18 - 09/03/2018 and thus never appeared in the New Roo scheme.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:58 am

Will be interesting to see how the next couple of days go with case numbers in NSW and Qld, as it’s a very real possibility of more border closures. I’m meant to go to Sydney mid week so it’s some added stress about those plans at this stage.

The amount of flights into and out of MEL this afternoon was busier than I expected for a Sunday afternoon as the rebuilding of services is still occurring. VA was very quiet for some time from when I arrived but they started to have some more action eventually.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:16 am

eamondzhang wrote:
YMHBSpotting wrote:
Any idea if there are any Qantas or QantasLink birds still in the 1986-2007 livery? I know there were still a few 717s and 737s a few years back

VH-OJA sitting at Wollongong Airport :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

Michael

& Boeing 747– 200 VH-EBQ in Longreach, Qantas Founders Museum.


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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:00 pm

Qantas SIN-LHR not available for reservation after 31 Oct 21, so perhaps SYD LHR service will operate via PER if they resume then

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 91042?s=20
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