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United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:58 pm

United has said today that they plan to order another 25 737MAX though type has been mentioned taking their current order book to 180 frames.

It has also said that they will speed up deliveries of the 737MAX in coming year. United is expected to take delivery of 24 737MAX this year, 40 in 2022 and 54 in 2023.

United Airlines said on Monday that it was adding 25 planes to its order for Boeing’s 737 Max jet, bringing its total to 180 in the coming years, and that it had sped up the delivery timeline as it seeks to position itself for the expected recovery in travel.

United, which has 30 Max planes in its fleet, started using the plane again only a few weeks ago. The airline expects to receive 24 this year, followed by 40 next year and 54 in 2023.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/01/busi ... 7-max.html
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SWADawg
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:54 pm

Are these MAX-8 white tails, or MAX-9’s?
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:57 pm

Are UA planning to retire any of the early delivery 737-800s?
 
dfwking
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:05 pm

Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:09 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Are UA planning to retire any of the early delivery 737-800s?


I would think that the older A320 retirements would be a higher priority
Last edited by Weatherwatcher1 on Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:10 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Are these MAX-8 white tails, or MAX-9’s?


United's supposedly taking delivery of these 25 MAXs in 2023, so I'd assume these aren't white tails.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/united- ... -737-maxs/
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:23 pm

Ishrion wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Are these MAX-8 white tails, or MAX-9’s?


United's supposedly taking delivery of these 25 MAXs in 2023, so I'd assume these aren't white tails.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/united- ... -737-maxs/


They could still be white tails, seat deliveries and etc must be planned ahead.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:26 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Are UA planning to retire any of the early delivery 737-800s?


I would think that the older A320 retirements would be a higher priority


I don't disagree. The A320s and the A319's for the most part date back to a 1992 order (as Boeing had no 737 model then on the table capable of completing transcontinental routes in the US) but some A319's were delivered in the early 2000s (I think 3-5) and the rest were acquired second hand from a China-based carrier. AA has retired some early 738s and that's why I was curious if UA was doing the same.
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:26 pm

dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...

Retirements seem to be more common in the wide-body fleets.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/united- ... -737-maxs/ says in addition to these 25 MAXes to be taken by UA, FR has taken 75 and AS has taken 23 in recent times.

I'm sure prices are good and compensation credits are probably also being applied, yet Boeing seems to be happy to be moving forward with big deals so there must be some underling benefit to closing these deals.
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MIflyer12
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:31 pm

dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


The seventeen used A319s they're buying? They don't intend to keep them. From today's ann report:

In addition, United has an agreement to purchase 17 used Airbus A319 aircraft, which it intends to sell, with expected delivery dates in 2021 and 2022.
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 pm

dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


Given that these probably won't be delivered until 2022-2023, the world might look very different then. Also, both their A320 and 737NG fleets are getting a bit long in the tooth. But this order of 180 frames is just about the size of their combined A319/A320 fleet, which is 187 frames, I believe.
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WaywardMemphian
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:05 pm

dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...



I'm betting it's all about oil prices, get more efficient aircraft on property and Max aircraft are more efficient and cheap at the the moment.
 
Opus99
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:12 pm

Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:20 pm

dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


UA has indeed not announced a formal fleet type retirement since the pandemic began, but they have parked / idled entire fleets including the 767-400ERs and the majority of the GE90 powered 777-200ERs. I suspect a couple of things could happen or play out that would explain why this is the route UA has gone. The 777-222As (never mind the engine issue last week in Denver) are likely nearing the end of their operations and that can be accelerated if needed. The 767-400ERs can be brought back on line and used as replacements for many of the routes the 222As are assigned to. They would then not need to be "Polaris'd) as none of them sport the 2016 introduced business class cabin, but the one thing this would do is remove one of the workhorses of summer TATL operations to leisure-heavy destinations (ATH, VCE, LIS, BCN, etc..). It's likely the ramp up of TATL will be slow anyway and some of these routes are not likely to come back until the Spring of 2022. The 200ER's powered with GE engines, I think are all legacy CO frames and are more capable range wise than the remaining non 222As in the UA 777 fleet that were legacy UA aircraft and can probably be returned to service and continue to operate alongside the 777-300ERs. UA has signaled the backbone of the long haul fleet will be the 787 and they still have some on order and could just as easily do a top up order with deliveries out to 2025.

The open, outstanding A350 order can be viewed two ways (1) as a 777-200ER replacement or (2) as a way to rework the order with Airbus and swap it entirely for A320/A319 fleet replacements, or for a larger A321XLR or A220 order. I see the 767-300ER fleet being replaced in phases with 787s.
 
Sooner787
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:37 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...



I'm betting it's all about oil prices, get more efficient aircraft on property and Max aircraft are more efficient and cheap at the the moment.


You're right , but also every new MAX brought on property can replace an older A319/320 or 737-800NG that is coming up on
an expensive heavy MX check, saving UA even more $$$$
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:38 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


As a technical point of order, I don't think any of these are orders yet ......
Sure they will be at some point..

Rgds
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:52 pm

astuteman wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


As a technical point of order, I don't think any of these are orders yet ......
Sure they will be at some point..

Rgds

So what are they?
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:57 pm

astuteman wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


As a technical point of order, I don't think any of these are orders yet ......
Sure they will be at some point..

Rgds

Since United has included them in their financial filings with a specific date “On February 26, 2021, the Company entered into an agreement with The Boeing Company..” they are likely firm, although we won’t know for sure until next week when Boeing releases their February orders.
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:01 pm

Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?


I'm not sure that they know anything more than any other carrier, as much as they're taking advantage of the situation. At some point, travel will return. This MAX order will aid United in being ready within a couple of years when this travel boom hopefully occurs. Also, they're almost certainly getting these birds at bargain prices so why not? This let's them pick up capable, fuel efficient airframes at excellent prices, so why not? The fact that some of their older narrowbodies are getting long in the tooth makes this an even more convenient replacement moment is all the better for United. In other words, the timing is darned near perfect in a great many ways...
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:22 pm

Polot wrote:
astuteman wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


As a technical point of order, I don't think any of these are orders yet ......
Sure they will be at some point..

Rgds

Since United has included them in their financial filings with a specific date “On February 26, 2021, the Company entered into an agreement with The Boeing Company..” they are likely firm, although we won’t know for sure until next week when Boeing releases their February orders.


Happy to be corrected. Thanks

Opus99 wrote:
astuteman wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


As a technical point of order, I don't think any of these are orders yet ......
Sure they will be at some point..

Rgds

So what are they?


If not orders (though in this case it looks like they may well be), I think the general term in common usage is "commitments".

Rgds
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


The seventeen used A319s they're buying? They don't intend to keep them. From today's ann report:

In addition, United has an agreement to purchase 17 used Airbus A319 aircraft, which it intends to sell, with expected delivery dates in 2021 and 2022.



Lease backs. Purchase and sell to lease company then lease it back.
 
JibberJim
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
yet Boeing seems to be happy to be moving forward with big deals so there must be some underling benefit to closing these deals.


But presumably that benefit could just be sufficient volume of sales to maintain their minimum viable production rate, the benefit might not be actual profit, just enough sales to keep the line going?
 
jagraham
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:48 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


UA has indeed not announced a formal fleet type retirement since the pandemic began, but they have parked / idled entire fleets including the 767-400ERs and the majority of the GE90 powered 777-200ERs. I suspect a couple of things could happen or play out that would explain why this is the route UA has gone. The 777-222As (never mind the engine issue last week in Denver) are likely nearing the end of their operations and that can be accelerated if needed. The 767-400ERs can be brought back on line and used as replacements for many of the routes the 222As are assigned to. They would then not need to be "Polaris'd) as none of them sport the 2016 introduced business class cabin, but the one thing this would do is remove one of the workhorses of summer TATL operations to leisure-heavy destinations (ATH, VCE, LIS, BCN, etc..). It's likely the ramp up of TATL will be slow anyway and some of these routes are not likely to come back until the Spring of 2022. The 200ER's powered with GE engines, I think are all legacy CO frames and are more capable range wise than the remaining non 222As in the UA 777 fleet that were legacy UA aircraft and can probably be returned to service and continue to operate alongside the 777-300ERs. UA has signaled the backbone of the long haul fleet will be the 787 and they still have some on order and could just as easily do a top up order with deliveries out to 2025.

The open, outstanding A350 order can be viewed two ways (1) as a 777-200ER replacement or (2) as a way to rework the order with Airbus and swap it entirely for A320/A319 fleet replacements, or for a larger A321XLR or A220 order. I see the 767-300ER fleet being replaced in phases with 787s.



Before COVID, UA identified four 77Es for conversion to high density configuration. Interestingly enough, the one 77E they finished got IPTE J seats. They didn't even keep the BE Diamond seats in; they went backwards a generation. No 77A retirements were planned. Probably because the 77As burn less fuel. It so happens that four 77Es is what would have been necessary for Japan and Guam operations and using 77Es would eliminate having to leave cargo behind.

The 764 does not fit the HD scenario; most of the J seats would have to be removed to get the 764 over 300 seats. I would expect that unless the Pratt fan problem causes early retirements, the HD requirement will be filled by some version of 777 until end of life, then UA would switch to the 78J. Maybe a decade from now.
Last edited by jagraham on Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:48 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


United has the smallest narrowbody fleet when compared to DL and AA. United's reliance on RJ's is higher than either DL or AA. Ordering 25 additional 737Max frames is a small step in the right direction for United. If we simply focus on the narrowbody fleet alone I'm not sure we are going to see UA retire a large portion of the narrowbody fleet.

The PW 752s have been retired. Most United insiders that I've spoken with don't expect the non-ER 739s to reenter service, there have been a handful or two of A320s that have been retired since 2019. I think the narrowbody fleet remains largely in tact because UA is still playing catch up to both DL and AA in terms of the size of our narrowbody fleet.
 
TeamLH
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:50 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service


By airlines who already ordered the type, buy Boeing only and perhaps got the sweetest deals.
 
dougbr2006
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:58 pm

My 10C worth. As the article says these wont be delivered until 2023, but they are accelerating part of their order with 45 due in 2022, those could possibly be made up of white tails. If you think how long it may take for Boeing to get the white tails ready for resale, config changes, are the seats the same on all Max`s or perhaps they may have to be changed out to be United fleet compatible etc. It`s really quite easy for them to slot in white tails as part of earlier deliver slots. Probably it won`t ever be made public if they are or not, Boeing will for sure be offering white tails at rock bottom prices at the moment. Makes it tempting for United I would think.
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:08 pm

TeamLH wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service

By airlines who already ordered the type, buy Boeing only and perhaps got the sweetest deals.

Nope, UA, AA and AS are Airbus customers. AA placed their NEO orders at the same time as they placed their MAX orders. UA has 50 A321s it ordered in December 2019. AS has ten A321s that it plans to keep till their leases run out in 2029. The only sole Boeing customer in the list of recent purchasers is FR. AS said it looked closely at A320s but 737s worked out better for them, but Team A had foot in the door for these three customers but lost out to Team B. I'm sure price had something to do with the successes, but it always is a factor.
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01pewterz28
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:12 pm

These will be Max-9's
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:28 pm

I scanned the web and found no indication that this order for 25 MAX's is for MAX-8, or MAX-9 models. There is also that order for 100 MAX-10's on the books that is looking shaky given the slowdown in certification of that type. Is it possible this order (presumably for MAX-9's) is a conversion of part of the MAX-10 order? I guess we will know more soon.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:43 pm

jayunited wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dfwking wrote:
Seems contrary to current trends. Most airlines have been retiring as many aircraft as they can, while United decides to order more... they haven't retired as many aircraft as the other legacies either. What does United know that the others don't?

Wonder how cheap they are getting these... especially given that there are SO MANY used aircraft on the market...


United has the smallest narrowbody fleet when compared to DL and AA. United's reliance on RJ's is higher than either DL or AA.


It's even worse than that: UA has a much higher use of single-class RJs vs. AA or DL. IMHO the CRJ550s won't have the costs/revenue potential in a down business travel market to fix this problem but that's been explored in other threads.

It will be interesting to see how the network changes with upgauging.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:48 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
I scanned the web and found no indication that this order for 25 MAX's is for MAX-8, or MAX-9 models. There is also that order for 100 MAX-10's on the books that is looking shaky given the slowdown in certification of that type. Is it possible this order (presumably for MAX-9's) is a conversion of part of the MAX-10 order? I guess we will know more soon.

It’s possible that UA has converted from Max 10s to smaller variants, but this order for 25 is in addition to all the Maxes they have on order. Including the new order for 25 they have 188 Maxes due from 2021 onwards (several of those 188 have been delivered in the past two months), plus the Maxes they received in December and had in fleet.
 
JFKalumni
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:07 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
I scanned the web and found no indication that this order for 25 MAX's is for MAX-8, or MAX-9 models. There is also that order for 100 MAX-10's on the books that is looking shaky given the slowdown in certification of that type. Is it possible this order (presumably for MAX-9's) is a conversion of part of the MAX-10 order? I guess we will know more soon.


I’m wondering if UA really needs the Max-8. Remember we took delivery of several 737-800SFP a few years ago for markets such as SJO, LIR, GUA, etc. over that last few years, airlines were moving towards larger narrowbody fleets. Could UA just stick with the Max-9 / 10 ?
 
UA444
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:40 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Are UA planning to retire any of the early delivery 737-800s?


I would think that the older A320 retirements would be a higher priority


I don't disagree. The A320s and the A319's for the most part date back to a 1992 order (as Boeing had no 737 model then on the table capable of completing transcontinental routes in the US) but some A319's were delivered in the early 2000s (I think 3-5) and the rest were acquired second hand from a China-based carrier. AA has retired some early 738s and that's why I was curious if UA was doing the same.

That’s incorrect. N801UA was their first 319 and was delivered in 1997, when the 737NG was flying. UA took brand new 319/320s all the way through 2002. The bulk of the A320s were delivered 1997-2002, from N437UA-N498UA. That’s newer than many of the first batch of ex-CO 737s. They have plenty of life left in them.
 
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
TeamLH wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Max has gotten over 100 orders since return to service

By airlines who already ordered the type, buy Boeing only and perhaps got the sweetest deals.

Nope, UA, AA and AS are Airbus customers. AA placed their NEO orders at the same time as they placed their MAX orders. UA has 50 A321s it ordered in December 2019. AS has ten A321s that it plans to keep till their leases run out in 2029. The only sole Boeing customer in the list of recent purchasers is FR. AS said it looked closely at A320s but 737s worked out better for them, but Team A had foot in the door for these three customers but lost out to Team B. I'm sure price had something to do with the successes, but it always is a factor.


I think in UA's case it is important to note, that the A321s are AFAIK XLRs and not regular ones. I wonder if Airbus had not decided to develop the A321XLR, would UA still order A320 family aircraft or would it not have rather made sense to go all B737 NB wise. Well I guess this point is moot now.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:18 pm

Polot wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I scanned the web and found no indication that this order for 25 MAX's is for MAX-8, or MAX-9 models. There is also that order for 100 MAX-10's on the books that is looking shaky given the slowdown in certification of that type. Is it possible this order (presumably for MAX-9's) is a conversion of part of the MAX-10 order? I guess we will know more soon.

It’s possible that UA has converted from Max 10s to smaller variants, but this order for 25 is in addition to all the Maxes they have on order. Including the new order for 25 they have 188 Maxes due from 2021 onwards (several of those 188 have been delivered in the past two months), plus the Maxes they received in December and had in fleet.


I'm glad UA is showing confidence in the B737 MAX series. It makes sense to order more to turn over their aging fleet of the NG's. By 2025 their narrow body fleet should consist of mostly MAX's.

JFKalumni wrote:
I’m wondering if UA really needs the Max-8. Remember we took delivery of several 737-800SFP a few years ago for markets such as SJO, LIR, GUA, etc. over that last few years, airlines were moving towards larger narrowbody fleets. Could UA just stick with the Max-9 / 10 ?


The B737-800SFP was Boeing's way to win the GOL order back in the mid-00's. They needed the enhancements to operate B738's safely from Santos Du Mont and its 4,300 ft. runways. I did not know UA had this variant too. Thanks for pointing that out.

Unless UA agrees to pick up some of Boeing's B38M white tails, you may be right that their MAX fleet going forward will probably consist of 9's & 10's. However, deliveries of the B737-10's has been pushed out to 2023.
 
aeromoe
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:35 pm

UA444 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I would think that the older A320 retirements would be a higher priority


I don't disagree. The A320s and the A319's for the most part date back to a 1992 order...but some A319's were delivered in the early 2000s (I think 3-5)


That’s incorrect.


The OP wasn't stating the A319s were ONLY delivered in the early 2000s...I interpret it as the last of the A319 order was delivered in the early 2000s...in context that is evidenced when he stated "I think 3-5." I know they were delivered beginning '97 because I purposefully flew on one (N802UA) from DCA-ORD in Sept 1997 near the end of a very fun trip to Puerto Rico. This was my first ever A319 flight.
Last edited by aeromoe on Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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frigatebird
Posts: 1841
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:38 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Polot wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
I scanned the web and found no indication that this order for 25 MAX's is for MAX-8, or MAX-9 models. There is also that order for 100 MAX-10's on the books that is looking shaky given the slowdown in certification of that type. Is it possible this order (presumably for MAX-9's) is a conversion of part of the MAX-10 order? I guess we will know more soon.

It’s possible that UA has converted from Max 10s to smaller variants, but this order for 25 is in addition to all the Maxes they have on order. Including the new order for 25 they have 188 Maxes due from 2021 onwards (several of those 188 have been delivered in the past two months), plus the Maxes they received in December and had in fleet.


I'm glad UA is showing confidence in the B737 MAX series. It makes sense to order more to turn over their aging fleet of the NG's. By 2025 their narrow body fleet should consist of mostly MAX's.

JFKalumni wrote:
I’m wondering if UA really needs the Max-8. Remember we took delivery of several 737-800SFP a few years ago for markets such as SJO, LIR, GUA, etc. over that last few years, airlines were moving towards larger narrowbody fleets. Could UA just stick with the Max-9 / 10 ?


The B737-800SFP was Boeing's way to win the GOL order back in the mid-00's. They needed the enhancements to operate B738's safely from Santos Du Mont and its 4,300 ft. runways. I did not know UA had this variant too. Thanks for pointing that out.

Unless UA agrees to pick up some of Boeing's B38M white tails, you may be right that their MAX fleet going forward will probably consist of 9's & 10's. However, deliveries of the B737-10's has been pushed out to 2023.

It was mentioned by RobK in the 737MAX production/delivery thread that there are already 15 max-8 with LN's assigned to UA. First one would be 8035 he said, so I expect it would be produced this year. So these can't come from the new order of 25, but must be conversions from UA's existing order. I don't know how UA has reshuffled their existing order, but I wouldn't be surprised if the MAX-8's are conversions from their MAX-10's.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:52 pm

UA444 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I would think that the older A320 retirements would be a higher priority


I don't disagree. The A320s and the A319's for the most part date back to a 1992 order (as Boeing had no 737 model then on the table capable of completing transcontinental routes in the US) but some A319's were delivered in the early 2000s (I think 3-5) and the rest were acquired second hand from a China-based carrier. AA has retired some early 738s and that's why I was curious if UA was doing the same.

That’s incorrect. N801UA was their first 319 and was delivered in 1997, when the 737NG was flying. UA took brand new 319/320s all the way through 2002. The bulk of the A320s were delivered 1997-2002, from N437UA-N498UA. That’s newer than many of the first batch of ex-CO 737s. They have plenty of life left in them.


Read the comment carefully before dismissing it. The order for A320/A319's were placed in 1992. I never said the A319s began deliveries in 1992.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 252
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Re: United Airlines plans to order an additional 25 737MAX

Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:01 pm

frigatebird wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Polot wrote:
It’s possible that UA has converted from Max 10s to smaller variants, but this order for 25 is in addition to all the Maxes they have on order. Including the new order for 25 they have 188 Maxes due from 2021 onwards (several of those 188 have been delivered in the past two months), plus the Maxes they received in December and had in fleet.


I'm glad UA is showing confidence in the B737 MAX series. It makes sense to order more to turn over their aging fleet of the NG's. By 2025 their narrow body fleet should consist of mostly MAX's.

JFKalumni wrote:
I’m wondering if UA really needs the Max-8. Remember we took delivery of several 737-800SFP a few years ago for markets such as SJO, LIR, GUA, etc. over that last few years, airlines were moving towards larger narrowbody fleets. Could UA just stick with the Max-9 / 10 ?


The B737-800SFP was Boeing's way to win the GOL order back in the mid-00's. They needed the enhancements to operate B738's safely from Santos Du Mont and its 4,300 ft. runways. I did not know UA had this variant too. Thanks for pointing that out.

Unless UA agrees to pick up some of Boeing's B38M white tails, you may be right that their MAX fleet going forward will probably consist of 9's & 10's. However, deliveries of the B737-10's has been pushed out to 2023.

It was mentioned by RobK in the 737MAX production/delivery thread that there are already 15 max-8 with LN's assigned to UA. First one would be 8035 he said, so I expect it would be produced this year. So these can't come from the new order of 25, but must be conversions from UA's existing order. I don't know how UA has reshuffled their existing order, but I wouldn't be surprised if the MAX-8's are conversions from their MAX-10's.


Thanks.

With the current conversion of this order, maybe we’ll see Max-8/9 only and anything larger going towards more A321’s. With the PW 757’s gone and the RR 757’s being replaced by A321XLR’s, any Max-10 potential markets would be covered by additional A321 options. Me personally, I believe that 50 A321 order will increase over time.

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