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Opus99
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Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:02 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saud ... SKCN2AT1XP

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/s ... 69.article

Saudia is apparently in talks with banks to order 787s, A321s and 777s (maybe Xs? or maybe Fs?)

But this is something to watch out for...

Seems very political to me though
 
TC957
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:09 am

They need MORE planes ??
 
Scotron12
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:42 am

TC957 wrote:
They need MORE planes ??


Like they need more sand too :D

Maybe curry favor with the Biden administration. But so what..good for US and Boeing.
 
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Polot
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:06 pm

My guess would be to fully replace all the A320ceos (they have a bunch of A321neos on order, but many are for the LR or XLR which suggests Saudia is planning medium range expansion with them), older A330s (the ~2010 builds) with 787s around middle of decade or long range expansion, and start replacing 77Ws toward the end of the decade with 779s.
 
Opus99
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:13 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
They need MORE planes ??


Like they need more sand too :D

Maybe curry favor with the Biden administration. But so what..good for US and Boeing.

That’s my line of thinking too. But an order is an order!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:27 pm

TC957 wrote:
They need MORE planes ??


Who needs D-checks when you can just buy new aircraft :duck:
 
Melb94
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:35 pm

Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:17 pm

Saudi Arabia ranks 19/19 in receipt of U.S. aid in the defined Middle East & Northern Africa region. They will be expected to fund their own purchases. Israel and Jordan are #1 and #2.

Reuters' referenced putative orders for 70 aircraft represents nearly half what planespotters.net shows as the present fleet.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:25 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
They need MORE planes ??


Like they need more sand too :D

Maybe curry favor with the Biden administration. But so what..good for US and Boeing.

We buy your planes, you uncancel your cancelled weapons shipment.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:55 pm

Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:37 pm

Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


The Crown Prince does have a vision of opening up Saudi to mass tourism. Part of their Saudi Vision 2030.

https://www.saudiarabiavisa.com/future- ... i-arabia/L
 
IAmGaroott
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:00 pm

Polot wrote:
My guess would be to fully replace all the A320ceos (they have a bunch of A321neos on order, but many are for the LR or XLR which suggests Saudia is planning medium range expansion with them), older A330s (the ~2010 builds) with 787s around middle of decade or long range expansion, and start replacing 77Ws toward the end of the decade with 779s.

I'm sure G4 would be willing to give those A320ceos a home.
 
TC957
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:37 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


The Crown Prince does have a vision of opening up Saudi to mass tourism. Part of their Saudi Vision 2030.

https://www.saudiarabiavisa.com/future- ... i-arabia/L

Yes, this is true, but still a brave call to think they'll such a big fleet expansion to cater for all these new post-2030 tourists. Still, as long as their oil in the sand I guess they don't care too much.
 
Antarius
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:05 pm

TC957 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


The Crown Prince does have a vision of opening up Saudi to mass tourism. Part of their Saudi Vision 2030.

https://www.saudiarabiavisa.com/future- ... i-arabia/L

Yes, this is true, but still a brave call to think they'll such a big fleet expansion to cater for all these new post-2030 tourists. Still, as long as their oil in the sand I guess they don't care too much.


Wise decision making isn't a hallmark of MbS. When your break even oil price is 80 USD/barrel and it costs you 10 to produce, it shows zero understanding of common sense fiscal policy.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
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qf789
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:49 am

Just a reminder to keep your post relevant to the topic, if you want to discuss anything unrelated to aviation take it to the non aviation forum
Forum Moderator
 
Galwayman
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:11 am

VSMUT wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.
 
Antarius
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:57 am

Galwayman wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.


Hajj pilgrimages are the lowest of the low budget travelers on average. There's a reason Saudia is a relatively irrelevant airline compared to regional competition such as QR, EK, TK etc. And airlines that have tried or considered stuff like a380s for Hajj (MH) are basket cases.

The purchasing power of a disney family on average is orders of magnitude more than a Mecca borne pilgrim.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:53 am

My understanding is that KSA is planning on a major overhaul of its policies with respect to international tourists. Previoiusly, admission to the country was only granted to foreign nationals traveling for business or religious purposes. Under KSA's's "Vision 2030" program, among other changes, the opportunity to visit for tourism will be available to foreign nationals from many nations, including those who are not Muslim. https://www.vision2030.gov.sa/en

As such, I expect that KSA are projecting a need for increased lift.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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VSMUT
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:09 am

Galwayman wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.


If you think pilgrims travelling to Mecca and Medina somehow have more money than any other travellers, I have a bridge to sell you...

Among crews (and I know a handful who have done them), passengers on Hajj flights are known for not being able to use a toilet or lighting stoves in the cabin to cook their dinner. Do those sound like passengers who could afford a cheapskate holiday to Disneyland?

In any case, Hajj pilgrimages are a couple of weeks roughly every 9 months, Saudia can't live off those alone. They have also been a thing for centuries, and Saudia still hasn't become a powerhouse from them.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:56 am

DocLightning wrote:
My understanding is that KSA is planning on a major overhaul of its policies with respect to international tourists. Previoiusly, admission to the country was only granted to foreign nationals traveling for business or religious purposes. Under KSA's's "Vision 2030" program, among other changes, the opportunity to visit for tourism will be available to foreign nationals from many nations, including those who are not Muslim. https://www.vision2030.gov.sa/en

As such, I expect that KSA are projecting a need for increased lift.


Westerners are already allowed to visit under the new tourism decree; however, non-Muslims cannot visit the holy cities.
 
bennett123
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:07 pm

Galwayman wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
Which new markets could Saudia open up if COVID was not around? Australia, Brazil, Japan, Scandinavia, Mexico, South America...?


If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.


They may have Mecca and Medina, but who will be able to visit them?.
 
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Polot
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:11 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.


They may have Mecca and Medina, but who will be able to visit them?.

The world’s large Islamic population.

That said as others pointed out he is seriously overestimating the wealth of most of the people making the pilgrimage. For most it is a once in a life time opportunity, and the entire experience is catered to make it as cheap as possible to transport them around.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:59 pm

bennett123 wrote:
They may have Mecca and Medina, but who will be able to visit them?.


According to KSA government sources, vaccinated Muslims.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Kadish
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:47 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

If trip reports are to be believed, they are a dry airline, have a depressing onboard product (albeit nice seats) with downright hostile hubs and often very poor and lazy cabin crew. They don't stand a chance at becoming the next global connector ala Qatar and Emirates. They will serve a niche of connecting Saudi Arabia to the world for its own citizens and guest workers, and provide connections for the odd budget conscious traveller who finds a good offer with them.


They have probably the most important tourist sights in the world -Mecca and Medina. They have at least a billion people as a captive audience >its impossible to overestimate the size and importance of their markets and they have superb strategic advantage. they probably have the world's greatest inbound tourism numbers in the history of humanity . They re not interested in cheapskate peasants travelling to Disneyland.


They may have Mecca and Medina, but who will be able to visit them?.


Who wants to visit them? I ve been once to Yeddah airport waiting for another conexion and I experienced the rudest staff on earth, police...I also remember the stinky smell of the “ toilets “.....never ever again.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:01 pm

Those A321s can be used as decent ways of expanding Saudi cities paired to South Asian cities as the aircraft will better enable the carrier to offer frequencies to the Saudi based O/D (including the many diaspora and those working in the nation).

Bettering business ties and trends to Asia (particularly Eastern, SouthEastern and South) has those 35 options (15 XLR, 15LR, 5NEO and also, 30 A320NEO as well). Not every route needs a 777-300 to operate it, and also, if the point is to increase tourism within Saudi Arabia, it need not only to be the Holy Cities, or Jeddah - and many of those 'secondary' cities, especially at lesser pressure (such as less than daily frequencies) could provide the carrier with some market creation, and potentially decent yields on their own, especially at the lesser pressure of an A32X operating the route.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:31 am

ATL / DFW / DTW / ORD / SEA / SFO as destinations?
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:03 pm

Antarius wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:

The Crown Prince does have a vision of opening up Saudi to mass tourism. Part of their Saudi Vision 2030.

https://www.saudiarabiavisa.com/future- ... i-arabia/L

Yes, this is true, but still a brave call to think they'll such a big fleet expansion to cater for all these new post-2030 tourists. Still, as long as their oil in the sand I guess they don't care too much.


Wise decision making isn't a hallmark of MbS. When your break even oil price is 80 USD/barrel and it costs you 10 to produce, it shows zero understanding of common sense fiscal policy.


With all their recent oil market manipulation, Saudia will probably be the only full service airline with enough money to grow beyond their pre-pandemic network in a few years :gnasher: .
 
xwb777
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Re: Saudia Plans Order Trio - A321. 777s, 787s

Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:19 pm

The deal is to finance the planes from a previous deal and not a new order.

https://amp-thenationalnews-com.cdn.amp ... -1.1187140

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