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WayexTDI
Posts: 2154
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:
It looks like F-GSPB, the second oldest 777-200ER in the fleet, 23 years old. Wasn't this one of the 777s they were going to scrap?

Image

Image

It looks like the Terminal 3 apron. I guess we are lucky they went for the 777 and not the nearby Concorde.

CWL757 wrote:
This ain't just stupid and illegal, it's dangerous. It looks like they've painted over various sensors that will probably now need to be replaced.


The aircraft is in storage with the sensors, probes and ports covered over, so they'll probably be fine. Will probably need to be stripped down and repainted however. They also put a ladder up on the wing and climbed onto the top of the fuselage, so who knows what sort of damage they caused up there.

BlueberryWheats wrote:
I hope that's ethically locally sourced organic vegan biodegradable green paint and they rode there on bicycles.


Or just the train or RER. Those are electric in France.

20% of the number of trains are still Diesel in France (source); it includes freight trains, but doesn't include dual-mode ones (Diesel or electric, depending on the line they operate).
 
kalvado
Posts: 3068
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:03 pm

ER757 wrote:
This seems awfully fishy...a bunch of people with ladders and long extension brushes stroll onto the tarmac, climb up on top of a plane and have time to open up paint cans and apply to the aircraft before any security personnel show up? It defies belief - sorry I don't buy it

Do you think that AF per-arranged an event, positioned frame for greenpeace event and photo ops; and would argue to insurance that repaint is not worth it, collects premium, part out plane - and everybody is happy?
Hard to believe, but we live in a crazy world!
 
flight152
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:06 pm

kalvado wrote:
ER757 wrote:
This seems awfully fishy...a bunch of people with ladders and long extension brushes stroll onto the tarmac, climb up on top of a plane and have time to open up paint cans and apply to the aircraft before any security personnel show up? It defies belief - sorry I don't buy it

Do you think that AF per-arranged an event, positioned frame for greenpeace event and photo ops; and would argue to insurance that repaint is not worth it, collects premium, part out plane - and everybody is happy?
Hard to believe, but we live in a crazy world!

Yeah, that’s why they have already cleaned it off.
 
aeromoe
Posts: 1598
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:16 pm

micstatic wrote:
what kind of security do they have at CDG?


Ask any of the law-abiding, photo-taking plane watchers who've been moved along in the past decades.... :roll: :roll:
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777Mech
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:18 pm

CRJockey wrote:
CWL757 wrote:
Apologies if it's already been discussed, but activists managed to breach the perimeter at CDG and paint a 777 Green. This ain't just stupid and illegal, it's dangerous. It looks like they've painted over various sensors that will probably now need to be replaced.
https://mobile.twitter.com/greenpeacefr ... ance-groen


Hyperbole, much? Why would it be dangerous? Guess an enormous green patch of paint will be quite visible during pre flight check. And, oh dear, sensors be replaced? You mean like as in an everyday occurence, where a mechanic changes a sensor?

You people get excited easily...


You don't think it's dangerous that 9 people breached security
at one of the world's busiest airports and had enough time to paint a 777 and have a photo-op?
 
kalvado
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:40 pm

flight152 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
ER757 wrote:
This seems awfully fishy...a bunch of people with ladders and long extension brushes stroll onto the tarmac, climb up on top of a plane and have time to open up paint cans and apply to the aircraft before any security personnel show up? It defies belief - sorry I don't buy it

Do you think that AF per-arranged an event, positioned frame for greenpeace event and photo ops; and would argue to insurance that repaint is not worth it, collects premium, part out plane - and everybody is happy?
Hard to believe, but we live in a crazy world!

Yeah, that’s why they have already cleaned it off.

Did they?
Does that mean that greenpeace used some water-soluble paint? Would be wise of them to avoid significant damage, though.
 
UA748i
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:45 pm

Vandalism and criminal trespassing.

Hopefully AF and the proper authorities hold these eco-nuts accountable for the damages.
 
Sokes
Posts: 2717
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:10 pm

UA748i wrote:
Vandalism and criminal trespassing.

Hopefully AF and the proper authorities hold these eco-nuts accountable for the damages.

Greenpeace may argue that planes vandalize the climate. What about accountability in that respect?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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JannEejit
Posts: 1736
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:26 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Come on folks, this was staged by Greenpeace and AIRFRANCE....


Exactly what I was thinking. A manged stunt to bring the topic of air pollution back to the forefront and judging from most of the comments within this thread, it worked,
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2493
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:33 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Your number is incorrect first (3,500 tonne - three thousand five hundred tonne), and even is "corrected" to 3,500 kg seems inaccurate.

Ah, the internet once more proves that the fastest way to get correct numbers it to post wrong numbers. Though it was my mistake, I had taken the numbers (3,500 kg, not tons) off a website without checking the parameters.

The calculation method took into account non-CO2 climate effects such as contrails and other emissions, as well as the increased impact from emitting CO2 at FL360 rather than on the ground. The example also used an old aircraft type.

Using https://www.atmosfair.de/en/offset/flight/ with the following inputs:
Route FRA-JFK (return)
1 economy seat, scheduled
Aircraft type 777-300ER

directly emits 802 kg of CO2.

That's still equivalent to one year of daily commute by car, 10 km each way. (260 workdays, 6.5 l/100km, 2.3 kg CO2/l gasoline) With these assumptions you can compare 1 flight = 1 year of commute.

WayexTDI wrote:
FRA-JFK-FRA is 12,400 km by air (undoable in a car, but we'll allow it for the sake of argument - source); so, that'd be 95 hours of driving at 130 km/h, or 12 days driving 8 hours per day (actual driving, not including rest every 2 hours, lunches/dinners, refueling, etc). How much CO2 will be generated by 12 days worth of food, lodging, transporting fuel in various remote locations, road repairs, tire wear, etc?


The point in the case of long haul flights isn't "Is flying the most efficient way to do it?" but "Do you have to do it at all?". For the vast majority worldwide, flying is already a luxury. A small number of people contribute the majority of emissions. Even in the US, 13% say they've never flown at all and 40% have never traveled abroad.

Even if aircraft are the most efficient mode of travel per passenger-kilometer, there is a choice where you spend your vacations. Do all business meetings absolutely need to happen in person - or can some be replaced with Zoom? The further you travel, the more often you travel, the more you pollute.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:38 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
How on Earth were these people able to get airside?! I'm not sure what's more alarming, the act that they committed, or the fact that one of the world's busiest airports has such lackluster security. Fortunately this time it was these crazy environmental protestors with no ulterior motive. Shame on CDG.
.


I'd have thought the ulterior motive was pretty obvious. Greenpeace protest stunts have been happening for years. The question of the lacklustre security is the most interesting thing for me about this debacle.
 
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GlobalAirways
Posts: 82
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:45 pm

Hopefully they were using green paint free of VOC's or they'd be really hypocritical here... Might I suggest Benjamin Moore Natura or Sherman Williams Harmony... Seriously though it wiped off pretty easy so it was probably kids finger paint.
There is little difference in people, but that little difference makes a big difference. The little difference is attitude. The big difference is whether it is positive or negative. ~ W. Clement Stone
 
nine4nine
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:46 pm

Make example of them. Charge them as terrorists, crippling or disabling and aircraft, criminal trespassing, destruction of property. Throw the book at these wack jobs and make an example of them. Hopefully they are also individually fined for the damages and put on a lifetime no fly list and have their passport revoked for life.
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UA748i
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 11:53 pm

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Sokes wrote:
UA748i wrote:
Vandalism and criminal trespassing.

Hopefully AF and the proper authorities hold these eco-nuts accountable for the damages.

Greenpeace may argue that planes vandalize the climate. What about accountability in that respect?


So you agree with this delinquency and the security issues it brings? Interesting.

Damage to aircraft is a serious offense, regardless of the intentions.
Last edited by UA748i on Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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bombayduck
Posts: 261
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:09 pm

Just a thought, how much do the Greenpeace ships add to the climate change?.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1595
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:40 pm

glideslope wrote:
Was the paint a Broccoli or Asparagus based formula?

I would assume kale. Actually one of the better uses of kale that I can think of.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2154
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:26 pm

Sokes wrote:
UA748i wrote:
Vandalism and criminal trespassing.

Hopefully AF and the proper authorities hold these eco-nuts accountable for the damages.

Greenpeace may argue that planes vandalize the climate. What about accountability in that respect?

Except that trespassing on Airport Property and damaging Property that does not belong to oneself are both explicitly described as criminal activity; planes and aviation are not.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2154
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:39 pm

mxaxai wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Your number is incorrect first (3,500 tonne - three thousand five hundred tonne), and even is "corrected" to 3,500 kg seems inaccurate.

Ah, the internet once more proves that the fastest way to get correct numbers it to post wrong numbers. Though it was my mistake, I had taken the numbers (3,500 kg, not tons) off a website without checking the parameters.

The calculation method took into account non-CO2 climate effects such as contrails and other emissions, as well as the increased impact from emitting CO2 at FL360 rather than on the ground. The example also used an old aircraft type.

Using https://www.atmosfair.de/en/offset/flight/ with the following inputs:
Route FRA-JFK (return)
1 economy seat, scheduled
Aircraft type 777-300ER

directly emits 802 kg of CO2.

That's still equivalent to one year of daily commute by car, 10 km each way. (260 workdays, 6.5 l/100km, 2.3 kg CO2/l gasoline) With these assumptions you can compare 1 flight = 1 year of commute.

WayexTDI wrote:
FRA-JFK-FRA is 12,400 km by air (undoable in a car, but we'll allow it for the sake of argument - source); so, that'd be 95 hours of driving at 130 km/h, or 12 days driving 8 hours per day (actual driving, not including rest every 2 hours, lunches/dinners, refueling, etc). How much CO2 will be generated by 12 days worth of food, lodging, transporting fuel in various remote locations, road repairs, tire wear, etc?


The point in the case of long haul flights isn't "Is flying the most efficient way to do it?" but "Do you have to do it at all?". For the vast majority worldwide, flying is already a luxury. A small number of people contribute the majority of emissions. Even in the US, 13% say they've never flown at all and 40% have never traveled abroad.

Even if aircraft are the most efficient mode of travel per passenger-kilometer, there is a choice where you spend your vacations. Do all business meetings absolutely need to happen in person - or can some be replaced with Zoom? The further you travel, the more often you travel, the more you pollute.

I doubt many people will do more than 1 FRA-JFK-FRA per year; so, if you want to compare plane trip and car trip, you'd have to add your weekly (or more) trip to the grocery store, the numerous weekends so the kids can go see grandpa and grandma, etc.

Aviation is ONE OF the world polluters; but so is ground transportation.

You want to discuss the unnecessary travel and its related pollution? Then, let's not forget cargo ships, who use poorly refined, high-sulfur content fuel oil to ship the unneeded plastic crap made in China, with zero respect for the environment. Most people forget about that, yet lose to crap on air travel: air travel is responsible for 2.5% of the worldwide CO2 emission, so does cargo ships.
'Nough said...
 
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ER757
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:53 pm

JannEejit wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Come on folks, this was staged by Greenpeace and AIRFRANCE....


Exactly what I was thinking. A manged stunt to bring the topic of air pollution back to the forefront and judging from most of the comments within this thread, it worked,

Bingo. Can anyone actually believe that this group of people gained access to the tarmac without setting off alarms? They would have had to pass through a secure door without a badge to disarm it, all while carrying the equipment you see there. Then they'd have to walk across said tarmac to reach the plane, while someone is TAKING VIDEO and photos. And still have time to set everything up at planeside and begin painting? Yeah, sure that would happen without them being arrested or shot first :sarcastic:
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:03 pm

zeke wrote:
IMHO AF could be disruptive, take the high road, and engage with greenpeace to have a greenpeace logo jet to raise awareness.

I’m very supportive of the sustainability message that greenpeace has, and I think most airlines are, as sustainably and improved efficiency are hand in hand. Lots of airlines have carbon offset programs, you don’t see that when taking a taxi, bus, train.

In reality aviation is at the forefront of efficiency and innovation.


No. That would just encourage other groups to pull such stunts.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 306
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:06 pm

Maybe Air Lingus will take it off AF’s hands.
 
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GlobalAirways
Posts: 82
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:19 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
So stupid.

Putting green on a non-green plane isn't going to make it more environmentally friendly.

Maybe they should have painted it black to show all the carbon it burns or brown because it's a crappy plane.


Isn't the main point of this action to protest greenwashing? You pretty much said it yourself:

Revelation wrote:
In reality environmentalism is a huge threat to aviation so aviation highlights every tiny thing they can think of to try to greenwash themselves.



Greenpeace France posted this on their Facebook page:

Greenpeace activists broke into the tarmac at Roissy - Charles de Gaulles airport to expose the government's greenwashing on the air. ✈️
In the face of the climate emergency, air traffic needs to be reduced. However, as the Climate Bill arrives in the next few weeks, all measures to reduce traffic are largely insufficient.
Minister of Transport, promises us a hypothetical green plane. As we know, the green plane will not save the climate.

https://www.facebook.com/greenpeacefrance/


N766UA wrote:
That chart is misleading. There are WAY more cars and buses than there are airplanes. Seriously, look at what cars and buses emit and then think of how many millions more cars and buses there are on the road than planes in the sky.


How is that even remotely relevant? People need cars to go to work or shopping, they are vital to peoples lives. Distances involved are way shorter. The vast majority of airplane passengers can continue their lives perfectly fine without flying. As per the Lufthansa topic, only 30% of passengers travel for business. The auto industry is arguably taking bigger steps to reduce emissions. Fully electric vehicles have long since become a common sight. Aviation still has a long way to go.


zeke wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Sorry, but the chart says 'per passenger per km traveled' so it is normalized.


Sorry there is something seriously wrong about the graph then, cars are inefficient because they are heavy for what they carry, engines are inefficient for the power they produce, they start and stop for traffic control, and they have the addition of road friction.

For as long as as I can remember cars use about twice as much fuel per passenger per 100 km.


Aircraft waste energy just staying up. Cars only spend energy moving forward. Aircraft engines are inefficient because they aren't optimised for a single speed - they have to be overbuilt to ensure adequate safety in case of an engine failure. Starting and stopping for traffic isn't relevant in this comparison, aircraft don't compete with intra-city transportation.

SAS posts fuel consumption figures per kilometer. The A320neo has a fuel consumption according to SAS of 0,024 l/km per seat, or 2.4 liters per 100 km. A modern car will burn 4-5 liters per 100 km, so once you have more than 1 person onboard, the car will beat the plane. The best cars I can find are now pushing 33 km/l, so are starting to match the latest jets with just a single occupant. That is of course assuming every single seat on the jet is filled, which is far from certain.


zeke wrote:
Then there is the latent manufacturing inefficiency of the car itself, most would only travel 10-15000 km per year. A typical aircraft will fly 3 million km a year, fewer aircraft are built each year as a fleet they are used more efficiently, most cars sit around and do nothing 20 hours a day.


A relevant point, but I'm not sure it is in favour of aviation. The aircraft might last a long time, but components are readily swapped and scrapped. Most engines these days aren't even overhauled or stripped for spares. When it comes to major checks, they are sent to the smelter. Ditto for many of the thousands of other components found in aircraft.


Looks to me like you should be on a Greenpeace forum rather than an aviation enthusiast forum.
There is little difference in people, but that little difference makes a big difference. The little difference is attitude. The big difference is whether it is positive or negative. ~ W. Clement Stone
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2493
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:55 pm

GlobalAirways wrote:
Looks to me like you should be on a Greenpeace forum rather than an aviation enthusiast forum.

Or you could stop being a blind fanboy and start encouraging airlines to take steps towards actual sustainability, rather than let them get away with cheap greenwashing.

We are aviation enthusiasts because we like to fly, not because we enjoy burning kerosene from fossile sources.
 
Wardhuntz
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:25 am

Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:21 pm

Dropping rocks in the ocean.
Now painting an aircraft?

I get they have a point to prove that yes the world is indeed in trouble and thinsg need to change, i would argue that there are alot better ways to prove or make a point than this.

Now i dont know that much about the situation but as i said there are better ways, BUT avation lover or not they do need to be punished for the actions done.
 
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qf789
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Re: Air France 777 painted green by Greenpeace.

Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:26 pm

Thread has drifted off topic and will be locked
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