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aviationMCO8
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Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:55 pm

DL1837 diverted to Sacramento SMF while enroute to Seattle from San Jose Del Cabo after a passenger died in the plane midflight.
https://www.newsweek.com/delta-plane-di ... es-1573994
 
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gabrielruda
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:17 pm

Unfortunately it's true! :(
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:29 pm

Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:50 am

Why is this news? It happens all the time, regrettably.
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Antarius
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:02 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.
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Let's all just use some common sense
 
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TupolevTu154
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:41 am

When I was an FA, we were never allowed to declare someone dead or allow anyone else to make that call whilst in the air. We would perform CPR until we had diverted, were on the ground, and the doctors/paramedics on the ground could take over. No idea how they do it at DL but could be something similar.
 
jubaexpress
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:54 am

TupolevTu154 wrote:
When I was an FA, we were never allowed to declare someone dead or allow anyone else to make that call whilst in the air. We would perform CPR until we had diverted, were on the ground, and the doctors/paramedics on the ground could take over. No idea how they do it at DL but could be something similar.


Nobody from any airline can pronounce someone dead, unless they are medical personnel, so Delta or not, they will find some tarmac to land on and call for the ambulance/coroner/doctor.
 
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stl07
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:55 am

Antarius wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.

To see if they are really dead. What if they could be revived?
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JesseCasserly
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:55 am

Antarius wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.



I think the reason is that unless there is an actual doctor onboard, the patient cannot officially be declared dead. So the flight crew have to assume the passenger is still alive and get them medical attention on the ground as soon as possible.
 
N649DL
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:50 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


And that's not a quick flight. We're talking, what like 4 hours of flying between Cabo and Seattle?
 
rhebmuller
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:41 am

Antarius wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.


I suppose it should be the case of isolating the passengers from a possible source of infection, in the possible case of a transmissible (and unknown at that moment) disease.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:52 am

Please don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that the real reason why nobody can die "on a plane" is legal, because the plane would have to be treated as a "crime scene" and retained/seized/detained/witheld (not sure what the legal term is) until the post mortem has been carried out and the death pronounced as non-suspicious. This could turn out to be extremely inconvenient for everyone, especially the airline. So there is an "agreement" between authorities and airlines that passengers should always die on the ambulance or the hospital once the plane has diverted. While still on board, the passenger is "very sick"...
Don’t confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:02 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
Please don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that the real reason why nobody can die "on a plane" is legal, because the plane would have to be treated as a "crime scene" and retained/seized/detained/witheld (not sure what the legal term is) until the post mortem has been carried out and the death pronounced as non-suspicious. This could turn out to be extremely inconvenient for everyone, especially the airline. So there is an "agreement" between authorities and airlines that passengers should always die on the ambulance or the hospital once the plane has diverted. While still on board, the passenger is "very sick"...


Laws vary from country to country, but a crime scene is probably too far. I can see why it would be easier to remove an unconscious person for treatment than a dead person however. One is positively encouraged as fast as possible, the other can only create vast amounts of paperwork.
 
db373
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:38 pm

Odd question: What is the protocol for FA's and/or medical personnel on board (Passengers who are doctors/nurses/ect) which regards to landing if they are treating someone with a medical condition? Let's say someone did have a heart attack and they are administering CPR....Do they stop and have to sit during landing? I've always been curious.
Keep Delta My Delta
 
Antarius
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:23 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies. Appreciate it.
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Let's all just use some common sense
 
gdavis003
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:26 pm

db373 wrote:
Odd question: What is the protocol for FA's and/or medical personnel on board (Passengers who are doctors/nurses/ect) which regards to landing if they are treating someone with a medical condition? Let's say someone did have a heart attack and they are administering CPR....Do they stop and have to sit during landing? I've always been curious.


First, my condolences to the family. Certainly a scary and difficult situation for all involved.

I have wondered this as well. I was on a UA flight from LIS to EWR last year, and a man, about two rows in front of me, had a serious medical emergency (seemed to have been a heart attack or a stroke) as we were two hours over the Atlantic. FA turned on the cabin lights and asked for any medical personnel to come to the row to assist. They dragged him to the aft galley, and luckily, there were quite a lot of doctors on the flight who were able to attend to him. I went back to sleep because I couldn't see anything, but as we were descending into EWR, I looked over and he was in his chair, perfectly fine. Was definitely a scary situation, but we were fortunate to have quite a lot of medical personnel aboard that flight. I do wonder what the protocol would have been though if there weren't doctors on board who were able to attend to him and to where we would have diverted. Probably would have turned back to Lisbon or somewhere but was definitely a question that was floating in my head at the time.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:38 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
Please don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that the real reason why nobody can die "on a plane" is legal, because the plane would have to be treated as a "crime scene" and retained/seized/detained/witheld (not sure what the legal term is) until the post mortem has been carried out and the death pronounced as non-suspicious. This could turn out to be extremely inconvenient for everyone, especially the airline. So there is an "agreement" between authorities and airlines that passengers should always die on the ambulance or the hospital once the plane has diverted. While still on board, the passenger is "very sick"...

I doubt this is the case.
We had an employee who had a heart attack at work (in a warehouse); EMS was called, pronounced him dead at the scene. Warehouse was never treated as a crime scene, cleaned up right after medics left (he fell on his face and bled on the floor).
The only thing that happened was the area was cordoned off until the body was removed and blood cleaned out; this wasn't because it was a "crime scene", but to show decency to a fellow employee.
Oh, by the way, this happened in the US, in the same jurisdiction that covers DL planes (i.e. State of Georgia).
 
twicearound
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:55 pm

db373 wrote:
Odd question: What is the protocol for FA's and/or medical personnel on board (Passengers who are doctors/nurses/ect) which regards to landing if they are treating someone with a medical condition? Let's say someone did have a heart attack and they are administering CPR....Do they stop and have to sit during landing? I've always been curious.


The FA’s continue to work on the pax during landing. There are procedures in place to try to secure themselves and the pax as best as possible. If absolutely necessary one medical assistant (doctor or nurse) can stay to help at the crews discretion.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:07 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Please don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that the real reason why nobody can die "on a plane" is legal, because the plane would have to be treated as a "crime scene" and retained/seized/detained/witheld (not sure what the legal term is) until the post mortem has been carried out and the death pronounced as non-suspicious. This could turn out to be extremely inconvenient for everyone, especially the airline. So there is an "agreement" between authorities and airlines that passengers should always die on the ambulance or the hospital once the plane has diverted. While still on board, the passenger is "very sick"...


Actually, a natural death doesn't warrant a crime scene. Flight attendants are trained to provide first aid, or in this case CPR/AED. The goal is to get that passenger to a hospital as quickly as possible where they have better odds of survival.

And let me just say, I would not feel comfortable flying on a plane where the crew just decided to give up trying to save the person's life, and opted to continue the 2 hours to the destination so it wouldn't inconvenience the customers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
len90
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:39 am

So I actually am a doctor and have helped on a B6 flight where someone choked on a starburst flying on Halloween and then had bronchospasms

There is a pretty set standard that all the airlines follow. The flight attendants are I believe all BLS trained so they know the basics. Medical personnel on the flight are allowed to jump in and we will tend to place leadership to the highest ranked person who steps forward with the rest helping. IF it is something quick that can is handled without any major intervention we right away say okay to continue from our end but the airline should notify their ground physician. Anything more serious the best option is to divert and get on the ground as soon as possible.

In the event someone does become pulseless while onboard a flight. CPR is started on board the aircraft and will continue until on the ground. The airplane does have a medical kit on it which will have needles for starting an IV and a few doses of epi There is also an AED. If CPR is being done according to American Heart Association code algorithm you will use up the meds in under 10 minutes; hence why immediate diversion is needed.

The medical kit, AED, and the oxygen tanks are no-go items. Meaning if they are used or if something is missing the flight can't go. The medical kit has two sections in it. Durable reusable medical equipment is kept in an unlocked zipper (stethoscope, sphygmomanometer). For airway secuirty you only have oropharyngeal, no ability to intubate on the plane. There is also no cardiac monitor on the plane; just the AED. Best off getting the person on the ground where airway can be better secured and there is a cardiac monitor.
Len90
 
MR27122
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:54 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Why is this news? It happens all the time, regrettably.


Death/Airplane = Media....(NOTE: Any association of the Death/Airplane is applicable for media to consider it newsworthy.)
 
IADCA
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:18 am

Antarius wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.


On an international flight, they avoid the headache of repatriating a body - assuming this person was a US citizen.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:14 am

Antarius wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Not all that unusual, It does happen from time to time. Heart attacks, drug overdoses, etc.


Indeed. But I have to ask, why divert in this case? If the pax is deceased, you're chopping one hour off but stranding a body and a bunch of pax. It's not like this is halfway or something.

What do they gain by diverting? Serious question.


DL and no airline can declare anyone dead, even the doctors on board that come forward to assist aren't really able to do it. No one on this flight is going to say "they're dead", close their eyes, and then go back to reading their book or watching their PTV. The flight diverts as a medical emergency where the passenger is evaluated and declared dead after paramedics take them on the ground. Generally they are removed, checked luggage is removed, and then the flight continues on to the destination most of the time (barring crew legality issues, but most times legality isn't an issue, it's very common and seldom happens and short range flights). As was stated, passenger will need proper resuscitation to be declared dead.

Additionally, as an international flight, taking the passenger on to SJD with Mexican customs involved is likely a worse idea than dropping them off in the origin country in this particular case.

Finally, knowing someone just died and now you'll now have to sit on a plane with a dead body for 4 hours isn't very appealing to passengers and may cause psychological distress.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:18 pm

db373 wrote:
Odd question: What is the protocol for FA's and/or medical personnel on board (Passengers who are doctors/nurses/ect) which regards to landing if they are treating someone with a medical condition? Let's say someone did have a heart attack and they are administering CPR....Do they stop and have to sit during landing? I've always been curious.

I don't think so. Back in 2015, I was on a flight where a medical emergency took place as we were descending into Newark, and several people went to the back of the plane when they called for doctors. I didn't see any of those people return to their seats at any point during the descent, approach, and landing.
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airportugal310
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:48 am

len90 wrote:
So I actually am a doctor and have helped on a B6 flight where someone choked on a starburst flying on Halloween and then had bronchospasms

There is a pretty set standard that all the airlines follow. The flight attendants are I believe all BLS trained so they know the basics. Medical personnel on the flight are allowed to jump in and we will tend to place leadership to the highest ranked person who steps forward with the rest helping. IF it is something quick that can is handled without any major intervention we right away say okay to continue from our end but the airline should notify their ground physician. Anything more serious the best option is to divert and get on the ground as soon as possible.

In the event someone does become pulseless while onboard a flight. CPR is started on board the aircraft and will continue until on the ground. The airplane does have a medical kit on it which will have needles for starting an IV and a few doses of epi There is also an AED. If CPR is being done according to American Heart Association code algorithm you will use up the meds in under 10 minutes; hence why immediate diversion is needed.

The medical kit, AED, and the oxygen tanks are no-go items. Meaning if they are used or if something is missing the flight can't go. The medical kit has two sections in it. Durable reusable medical equipment is kept in an unlocked zipper (stethoscope, sphygmomanometer). For airway secuirty you only have oropharyngeal, no ability to intubate on the plane. There is also no cardiac monitor on the plane; just the AED. Best off getting the person on the ground where airway can be better secured and there is a cardiac monitor.


Nicely written, and absolutely correct on the last paragraph. The AED/EMK kit on the airplane is "no-go", and believe me...we make sure we have spares at ALL stations in case one is used up in-flight.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
len90
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:43 am

AirKevin wrote:
db373 wrote:
Odd question: What is the protocol for FA's and/or medical personnel on board (Passengers who are doctors/nurses/ect) which regards to landing if they are treating someone with a medical condition? Let's say someone did have a heart attack and they are administering CPR....Do they stop and have to sit during landing? I've always been curious.

I don't think so. Back in 2015, I was on a flight where a medical emergency took place as we were descending into Newark, and several people went to the back of the plane when they called for doctors. I didn't see any of those people return to their seats at any point during the descent, approach, and landing.

Simple answer: work through the landing. CPR (code procedure) once started is held for 5 second pulse checks every 2 minutes. You can not hold CPR for a landing as there will be no forced air into the lungs and forced circulation of the person's blood to deliver oxygen to their organs.

CPR is stopped for the following reasons: ROSC (palpable pulse), family withdrawal of care, code has gone on for long enough where further efforts are now deemed futile. The third situation would likely not happen while on an airplane. Code procedure would be continued until on the ground and local authorities can take over Legality issues come into play. First you need to be licensed in the state/country where the person is declared dead. Second nobody who is acting under good samaritan law would take that responsibility on.
Len90
 
birdup
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Re: Passenger Dies on Delta Flight

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:21 am

This thread reminds me of the movie “Vacation” https://youtu.be/_2dIVrud4a0

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