French billionaire Olivier Dassault was killed on Sunday in a helicopter crash, a police source said, with President Emmanuel Macron paying tribute to the 69-year old conservative politician.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-peop ... AZ0M9?il=0

Dassault was the eldest son of late French billionaire industrialist Serge Dassault, whose namesake Dassault Aviation, builds the Rafale war planes and owns Le Figaro newspaper.

And of course builds the Falcon bizjets ! Also nobody mentions Dassault Systèmes which is probably much more influential than Dassault Aviation...

“Olivier Dassault loved France. Captain of industry, lawmaker, local elected official, reserve commander in the air force: during his life, he never ceased to serve our country, to value its assets. His sudden death is a great loss. Thoughts on his family and loved ones,” Macron said on Twitter.

The private helicopter crashed on Sunday afternoon in Normandy, where he has a holiday home, according to a police source. The pilot was also killed.

From other articles the Ecureuil AS350 was taking off from private ground when it crashed.

Currently there is a curfew at 6PM in France so it should have been daytime.

It appears the the heir to Dassault Aircraft has perished in a helicopter crash.
Prayer to the Dassault family and personnel.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... pter-crash

Apparently it was F-GIBM AS350B

It hit a tree on take-off from a private landing zone.

Rumor mill (no source) says he had asked the pilot to land on the edge of the zone, bad idea.

Olivier Dassault son of the famed French aeronautical family was killed in a helicopter crash in the Normandy region of France on Sunday onboard Aerospatiale AS350 Ecureuil.

Dassault Aviation group has been a leading French plane manufacturer for the last 70 years and is behind the Falcon private jet, the Mirage warplane, and most recently the Rafale fighter.
Olivier Dassault held a majority stake in the family's aviation group along with other businesses including influential newspaper Le Figaro.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2021 ... pter-crash

It looks like crashes of their private helicopters are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like private helicopter crahes are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

wezgulf3 wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like private helicopter crahes are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

Jomar777 wrote:

wezgulf3 wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like private helicopter crahes are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

The flaw is that the PIC may not actually be acting like PIC

Jomar777 wrote:

wezgulf3 wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like private helicopter crahes are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

My question was not about certain causes for these accidents but the risk of this means of transportation in general. Compared with commercial flights, operated by airlines.

AFAIK currently there is one fatal a/c loss every 2 million flights. Correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't find better data. I think private helicopter flying is much much more dangerous.

And these three cases I mentioned above are only the tip of the iceberg. That's why most accident statistics exclude helicopters. The "fatal accidents per passenger mile" statistics must be horrendous. Unfortunately I couldn't find one published.

A private helicopter, flying you any time you want into your private backyard, is a fine thing but is it worth dying for it? Or to take a huge risk? And these out of airport landings (stadiums, private areas) cause extra risk.

There was a Chinese billionaire that died in a helicopter crash in France a couple years ago (he owned a wine chateau).

Rather than helicopters killing the rich I think we should look at it the other way, poor people are rarely onboard helicopters, so an helicopter crash is more likely to kill a rich person (passengers and crew aside).

Also the alternative to an helicopter for the trip he was doing is a car, on Sunday evening thousands upon thousands of cars do the trip back from the Normandy coast to the Paris region.

Aesma wrote:

There was a Chinese billionaire that died in a helicopter crash in France a couple years ago (he owned a wine chateau).

Rather than helicopters killing the rich I think we should look at it the other way, poor people are rarely onboard helicopters, so an helicopter crash is more likely to kill a rich person (passengers and crew aside).

Also the alternative to an helicopter for the trip he was doing is a car, on Sunday evening thousands upon thousands of cars do the trip back from the Normandy coast to the Paris region.

Rich or not. The question is, how many people do private helicopters kill per seat mile? Compared with commercial avaition and if you want compared with driving a car?

What are a few hours wasted in a car on the Autobahn compered with being killed? Kobe Bryant would still be among us, if he had used the car.

There are thousands of helicopters flying around the world every day, flown correctly they are a very safe mode of transportation. I can only find U.S. stat's but there were just over 100 crashes in 2019 https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -flat-2019 This article quotes 1 death per 100,000 hours of flight time. https://www.medpagetoday.com/publicheal ... sues/84627 There are 69,728 helicopters in the world http://helicopterblog.com/?p=966 They are not exactly falling from the sky with massive fatalities

Heinkel wrote:

Jomar777 wrote:

wezgulf3 wrote:

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

My question was not about certain causes for these accidents but the risk of this means of transportation in general. Compared with commercial flights, operated by airlines.

AFAIK currently there is one fatal a/c loss every 2 million flights. Correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't find better data. I think private helicopter flying is much much more dangerous.

And these three cases I mentioned above are only the tip of the iceberg. That's why most accident statistics exclude helicopters. The "fatal accidents per passenger mile" statistics must be horrendous. Unfortunately I couldn't find one published.

A private helicopter, flying you any time you want into your private backyard, is a fine thing but is it worth dying for it? Or to take a huge risk? And these out of airport landings (stadiums, private areas) cause extra risk.

I’ve used helicopters before - but my attitude is that the pilot is there to get me where I’m going safely. If he says something isn’t appropriate or safe, who am I to argue. He/she has the experience, I don’t.

remingtonbox wrote:

Jomar777 wrote:

wezgulf3 wrote:

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

The flaw is that the PIC may not actually be acting like PIC

Exactly. A true PIC has enough skills to bend the rules / handle unusual events, but chooses whenever possible to avoid doing so, because doing so will increase the risk of injuries or deaths. (note: not a pilot). Only then is your pilot top class.

What will be the impact on the company?.

What will be the impact on the company?.

None. Olivier Dassault had no operationnal role in Dassault Aviation. Company ownership is stable and under surveillance.

It looks like crashes of their private helicopters are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK
2020 Kobe Bryant
2021 Olivier Dassault

Plus a few more:

Edward Haughey, Baron Ballyedmond.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haughey_Air_AgustaWestland_AW139_crash

Chris Cline, https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/226803

etc.

Public transportation in rotorcraft is essentially limited to the offshore oil industry, and the record is not that good either.

Helicopter operations are nowhere as safe as fixed wing operations, for different reasons: the operating environment is harsh, there are plenty of mechanical failure modes with catastrophic outcomes, the thing is permanently close to the ground, the VIP cannot stand to be delayed etc. The issue is well identified; EASA for instance as a roadmap for rotorcraft safety.

In some cases, the death trap will burst into flame, Robinson R.66 and early AS 350 have a poor record for post crash survivability, their fuel tank is prone to post crash ignition.

Hopefully the new generation of VTOL based upon electric and decentralised propulsion, multiple redundant rotors/fans, automated or semi-automated flight, will have improved safety level.

Until then, stay clear of rotorcraft, if you can.

Heinkel wrote:

Aesma wrote:

There was a Chinese billionaire that died in a helicopter crash in France a couple years ago (he owned a wine chateau).

Rather than helicopters killing the rich I think we should look at it the other way, poor people are rarely onboard helicopters, so an helicopter crash is more likely to kill a rich person (passengers and crew aside).

Also the alternative to an helicopter for the trip he was doing is a car, on Sunday evening thousands upon thousands of cars do the trip back from the Normandy coast to the Paris region.

Rich or not. The question is, how many people do private helicopters kill per seat mile? Compared with commercial avaition and if you want compared with driving a car?

What are a few hours wasted in a car on the Autobahn compered with being killed? Kobe Bryant would still be among us, if he had used the car.

I'm not sure seat/mile would provide a very valid comparison here. Flight hours would be better.

Although I think it would be more interesting to look at all deaths and work out the percentage caused by transport and specifically helicopters. Then it would be even more interesting to look at the accident causes - I can think of several high profile owner / pilots who sadly pushed the envelope too far. Colin McRae, Graeme Strachan and Steve Hislop... which actually makes me wonder if there is a (perhaps expected) correlation between competitive drivers and pushing the limit.

I do think helicopters are quite dangerous (and I have rotary wing training in my logbook). What compounds the problem is that high pressure clients, perhaps not understanding risk management very well, consider the pilots who always get the mission done are the “best”, but in reality land they are actually the reckless ones. Literally the pilots most likely to have a fatal crash are the ones that are the most requested by big spending VIP customers.

But let’s face it, the alternative — surface transport — is not risk-free, and in any case, driving from the OC to Simi Valley would take three hours vs half an hour in a helicopter. If I had the money I’d take a chopper. Driving in LA sucks.

LCDFlight wrote:

Exactly. A true PIC has enough skills to bend the rules / handle unusual events, but chooses whenever possible to avoid doing so, because doing so will increase the risk of injuries or deaths. (note: not a pilot). Only then is your pilot top class.

No. A "true PIC" - assuming you mean by that a really, really good pilot - doesn't "bend the rules," ever, because they understand the rules are written in blood.

It's always possible to avoid bending the rules. It's just not always easy. How good are you at saying no to Kobe Bryant? Because a really, really good pilot can say no to Kobe Bryant - that's part of what makes her a really, really good pilot.

I believe that the leading cause of helicopter crashes for the rich is that the rich hire pilots who don't push back much when requested to do things that are less safe, and that the pilots would not do on their own if someone had not asked them too.

The rich tend to quickly fire those that tell them that it's too dangerous, or that the landing area has too many hazards.

There are exceptions to that... rich who hire pilots who put safety first and push back when asked to compromise safely; but, they are rare.

Even driving a car I have become much more conservative in nasty weather as I've gotten older. The winter conditions I used to drive with poor tires and few supplies. Now, I often look at the weather and just tell myself and others that there's no need to take the risk. It's got to be a real crises or very important to get me on the road in bad road conditions now (and I do know how to drive in it if I have too).

It's and old saying. There are bold (_______) and there are old (_______); but, there are very few old bold (________).

Fill in the profession that fits the discussion.

Have a great day,

hamiltondaniel wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

Exactly. A true PIC has enough skills to bend the rules / handle unusual events, but chooses whenever possible to avoid doing so, because doing so will increase the risk of injuries or deaths. (note: not a pilot). Only then is your pilot top class.

No. A "true PIC" - assuming you mean by that a really, really good pilot - doesn't "bend the rules," ever, because they understand the rules are written in blood.

It's always possible to avoid bending the rules. It's just not always easy. How good are you at saying no to Kobe Bryant? Because a really, really good pilot can say no to Kobe Bryant - that's part of what makes her a really, really good pilot.

I more had Sully in mind when I said bend the rules, meaning sometimes, if rarely, you might need to think outside the box to save your bacon. But yes, totally agree that checklists and professional standards are there in blood. A legitimate pilot should understand that deeply. A checklist is there because it WILL reduce the chance of failure. If nothing else, it is a double check. It's the standard. Doing it any other way creates risks. Swiss cheese. You create enough risks, you die.

Kobe's crash as well as this one had just one pilot. What are the stats for helicopter crashes with two pilots compared to one?

cpd wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

Jomar777 wrote:

Also, needs verification, but only Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha's was due to a mechanic failure on the helicopter. Kobe's was his insistence in fly on seemingly adverse conditions (low ceiling in the area of crash). Dassault's was apparently the decision to use a landing pad that was on a compromised position, apparently.

Additionally, on all these cases, it also involved different makes and models of helicopter rather than a single one - which could suggest a fatal flaw.

My question was not about certain causes for these accidents but the risk of this means of transportation in general. Compared with commercial flights, operated by airlines.

AFAIK currently there is one fatal a/c loss every 2 million flights. Correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't find better data. I think private helicopter flying is much much more dangerous.

And these three cases I mentioned above are only the tip of the iceberg. That's why most accident statistics exclude helicopters. The "fatal accidents per passenger mile" statistics must be horrendous. Unfortunately I couldn't find one published.

A private helicopter, flying you any time you want into your private backyard, is a fine thing but is it worth dying for it? Or to take a huge risk? And these out of airport landings (stadiums, private areas) cause extra risk.

I’ve used helicopters before - but my attitude is that the pilot is there to get me where I’m going safely. If he says something isn’t appropriate or safe, who am I to argue. He/she has the experience, I don’t.

Going for an involuntary suicide "Pharao's burial" (act to kill yourself and your entourage ) seems to be the domain of the rich and mighty.
Remember the Lech Kaczyński crash in Russia?

So apparently Dassault had bought the helo recently (why buy such an old one ?) and was training to get his license. He was a fixed wing pilot, qualified on all Falcon jets. So it's possible he was the one in control.

Also the professional pilot was a former AF captain and an helo instructor.

Here in the UK in 2007 we also lost Colin McRrae, of the car rallying fame, also on an AS350.

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like crashes of their private helicopters are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Kobe's flight was in weather they should not have been flying in such degraded visibility in mountain ranges at the time. Other helicopters in the area including police unit had been grounded for safety.

WIederling wrote:

cpd wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

My question was not about certain causes for these accidents but the risk of this means of transportation in general. Compared with commercial flights, operated by airlines.

AFAIK currently there is one fatal a/c loss every 2 million flights. Correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't find better data. I think private helicopter flying is much much more dangerous.

And these three cases I mentioned above are only the tip of the iceberg. That's why most accident statistics exclude helicopters. The "fatal accidents per passenger mile" statistics must be horrendous. Unfortunately I couldn't find one published.

A private helicopter, flying you any time you want into your private backyard, is a fine thing but is it worth dying for it? Or to take a huge risk? And these out of airport landings (stadiums, private areas) cause extra risk.

I’ve used helicopters before - but my attitude is that the pilot is there to get me where I’m going safely. If he says something isn’t appropriate or safe, who am I to argue. He/she has the experience, I don’t.

Going for an involuntary suicide "Pharao's burial" (act to kill yourself and your entourage ) seems to be the domain of the rich and mighty.
Remember the Lech Kaczyński crash in Russia?

I was going to mention that event... thanks for remembering. It was clear they should not have landed at Smolensk but the pressure made them (try to...) do so... I am not sure but same applied to Kobe's helicopter crash... correct me if I am wrong.

armagnac2010 wrote:

What will be the impact on the company?.

None. Olivier Dassault had no operationnal role in Dassault Aviation. Company ownership is stable and under surveillance.

I was thinking of his role as a major shareholder.

https://www.challenges.fr/classements/f ... ssault_160

wezgulf3 wrote:

Heinkel wrote:

It looks like private helicopter crahes are a real threat for the very rich:

2018 Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, in Leicester, UK

2020 Kobe Bryant

2021 Olivier Dassault

Are there any statistics about the crash rate of these private helicopters? I'm a little bit surprized, that these very rich people use such a dangerous mode of transportation.

And AFAIK these were all flights, which were operated by a professional pilot.

It looks like any commercial airline is safer. Why do these very rich people risk thier lives?

Statistically it’s still very safe, you’ve named three from thousands of famous and rich people that fly in helicopters weekly since 2018, and have survived.
I’m pretty sure more rich people have died in car crashes in that time frame.

I’m also pretty sure EasyJet wouldn’t have offered him a flight from his private summer house to his normal residence on a Sunday night.

Wes...

Ego kills more people than aviation itself. You will find that all three of these men thought they had a greater power than logic just because of who they were.

Canuck600 wrote:

They are not exactly falling from the sky with massive fatalities

That made me laugh out loud.

Do I need to seek help?

Pilot error can also happen with an airplane. The couple of Turbo Porter pilots I've known (jumping out of their planes) were a bit of the "let's find the limit" type.