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atlflyer
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AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:32 am

AA had a topping off ceremony today of the new core aka Terminal 4.5. They released a video as well with new renderings. It really looks like a reconstructed terminal should look. Airy. Bright. Spacious. With a unified façade from the beginning of Terminal 4 to end of Terminal 5. For the life of me I can’t understand why Delta is keeping the 1970s façade directly in front of current T2 when T2.5 and T3 will be modern. AA’s new checkin looks impressive compared with Delta’s which still will have lower ceilings and looks cramped even though it will be brand new.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:53 am

I don't know why this has never occurred to me before, but I am finally realizing that with the union of Terminal 2 and Terminal 3, Pan Am and TWA will have officially merged. Oh that legendary red carpet and brown paneling...

Congratulations to AA for taking the initiative to upgrade the experience at LAX! Hopefully the renderings match the final product.

The never-ending game of terminal shuffle continues, unabated at LAX, the way it has always done since the first scheduled flight.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 am

You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:29 am

atlflyer wrote:
AA had a topping off ceremony today of the new core aka Terminal 4.5. They released a video as well with new renderings. It really looks like a reconstructed terminal should look. Airy. Bright. Spacious. With a unified façade from the beginning of Terminal 4 to end of Terminal 5. For the life of me I can’t understand why Delta is keeping the 1970s façade directly in front of current T2 when T2.5 and T3 will be modern. AA’s new checkin looks impressive compared with Delta’s which still will have lower ceilings and looks cramped even though it will be brand new.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


It appeared one of the terminals check in areas was already tall. It looks to just have kept that and updated. Delta building is the same height per LAX facade rules id imagine it’ll be just as open. Perhaps they are utilizing more room on the security level?
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:32 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.
a.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:38 am

atlflyer wrote:
For the life of me I can’t understand why Delta is keeping the 1970s façade directly in front of current T2 when T2.5 and T3 will be modern.


The current T2 facility is from the late 1980's. DL has spent alot of money over the years upgrading facilities at LAX T5. The most recent T5 check-in upgrade from the early/mid-2010's didn't get much use from DL before the great LAX gate swap occurred a few years ago. DL could do without spending money on infrastructure, at least not all at once.

The current building trend at LAX seems to be adding a level above the ticketing area. I imagine at some point this will occur with T2 as well.

SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6.


Of course. Ditto at MIA with B6's gate assignment in MIA at Concourse E.
 
Happytycho
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 am

Are any of the improvements other than the new vertical core actually getting built yet?
AA has been running out PR pieces for a few years now about this grand renovation that's coming sometime soon so it would be nice to see them actually get shovels in the ground like has happened on the other side of the horseshoe.
 
gmcc
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:01 am

Happytycho wrote:
Are any of the improvements other than the new vertical core actually getting built yet?
AA has been running out PR pieces for a few years now about this grand renovation that's coming sometime soon so it would be nice to see them actually get shovels in the ground like has happened on the other side of the horseshoe.


The T4 modernization just cleared or is in environmental. The are going to essentially rebuilding T4 once they get done. Details can be found at
https://www.lawa.org/lawa-our-lax/envir ... on-project
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:19 am

Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.
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rjbesikof
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:27 am

USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


I know they said in public, they will not bring back most of Asia (notably PEK/PVG/HKG), but could they do more South Pacific like BNE, MEL, or WLG in partnership w/ Qantas?
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:33 am

So is the Eagle's Nest closed?
 
N649DL
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:47 am

AA did a really nice job with T4 back in the day. I remember first visiting LAX on a layover from HNL going back to EWR in 2002 and was really impressed. It still holds up.

I still miss DL being in T5 and haven't got used to them being in T2 yet. The Sky Club interim renovation basically turned it into an Art Museum in the lounge area in T5 around 2016. Not that the T2 club is bad but there is something about the lighting and sound acoustics I miss about the T5 club (and also the massive Delta logo in the lobby that would light up at night.) T3 is a freaking dump and it's just way too crowded in the gate area and security areas in T2.
 
atlflyer
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 am

Happytycho wrote:
Are any of the improvements other than the new vertical core actually getting built yet?
AA has been running out PR pieces for a few years now about this grand renovation that's coming sometime soon so it would be nice to see them actually get shovels in the ground like has happened on the other side of the horseshoe.


They do say in the video that today the next phase of modernizing the T4 headhouse begins.
 
aaway
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:48 am

9w748capt wrote:
So is the Eagle's Nest closed?


Barring further sked adjustments - unlikely in current environment - Nest is scheduled to reopen in April.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
miaami
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:04 am

USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


I'm surprised to hear that LAX-CMH might not come back, they were doing 2X daily and DL with 1x daily. There is a market there and AA is large in both cities.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:08 am

aaway wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
So is the Eagle's Nest closed?


Barring further sked adjustments - unlikely in current environment - Nest is scheduled to reopen in April.


Even once re-opened it'll only have 15-16 flights a day (assuming all the RJ flights go to the Nest) and that is a combination of construction and Mainline gating driven pushing the flights back to the Nest. The re-construction/alignment of taxilane C9 is part of the T4 project which was supposed to start in the coming weeks and closes access to several T4 gates and most of the gates Eagle has been using in T5. Someone currently in LAX can probably comment more about when that process is supposed to start. As I recall it was originally 2021Q3 but then got moved up to take advantage of reduced traffic from COVID.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
onwFan
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:24 am

alasizon wrote:
aaway wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
So is the Eagle's Nest closed?


Barring further sked adjustments - unlikely in current environment - Nest is scheduled to reopen in April.


Even once re-opened it'll only have 15-16 flights a day (assuming all the RJ flights go to the Nest) and that is a combination of construction and Mainline gating driven pushing the flights back to the Nest. The re-construction/alignment of taxilane C9 is part of the T4 project which was supposed to start in the coming weeks and closes access to several T4 gates and most of the gates Eagle has been using in T5. Someone currently in LAX can probably comment more about when that process is supposed to start. As I recall it was originally 2021Q3 but then got moved up to take advantage of reduced traffic from COVID.

Wasn’t it mentioned on some threads last year that demolition work on the Eagle’s nest had already started? Given the projected demand at LAX, I don’t see the need for Eagle’s nest to return, especially as MSC is opening, and AA gains access to more gates in T5.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:13 am

N649DL wrote:
T3 is a freaking dump and it's just way too crowded in the gate area


Was a freaking dump is probably a better way to put it. Delta took advantage of decreased traffic levels and closed the building completely to replace it all at once rather than trying to do a progressive remodel around an operating terminal. LAX posted pictures a couple weeks ago and a good part of T3 simply isn’t there anymore: https://twitter.com/flylaxairport/statu ... 33988?s=10
 
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PacificRim
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:23 am

rjbesikof wrote:
but could they do more South Pacific like BNE, MEL, or WLG in partnership w/ Qantas?


I don't see any airline, let alone AA, making an LAX-WLG route work.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:41 am

USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


Asia service from LAX on AA will be just to HND. PVG/PEK/HKG are gone and won't be coming back. The future of LAX TPAC service though will be focused on Australia and New Zealand, once both reopen to international travel. AA has been operating LAX-SYD, in line with capacity (pax) restrictions, since November 2020 when it resumed. AKL will return and CHC may eventually begin in 2022 or later. I can also see an LAX-MEL or BNE route in the future on AA metal to complement QF. With Virgin Australia out of the market and the demand for service likely to be very strong once vaccinations and Covid rates are in check in both Australia and the US, the demand will rebound quite strongly.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:43 am

PacificRim wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
but could they do more South Pacific like BNE, MEL, or WLG in partnership w/ Qantas?


I don't see any airline, let alone AA, making an LAX-WLG route work.


Definitely not. Plus, the WLG runway is too short to enable a nonstop WLG-LAX service, and the market's not there. NZ for AA will remain seasonal to 3 x weekly off peak to AKL and a 3 weekly CHC when tourism recovers. That's about it.
 
B752OS
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:36 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.


So American will have access to all 28 gates in T4 and T5 at some point?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:43 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.


You have inside knowledge of that?

Because the info I have (which isnt inside knowledge) says that you are incorrect.
 
atlflyer
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:58 pm

B752OS wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.


So American will have access to all 28 gates in T4 and T5 at some point?


That’s what it seems like. Especially when the T4 gate/concourse construction starts. They are going to have to close a lot of T4 gates to raise the ceilings and extend the concourse width.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:48 pm

B752OS wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.


So American will have access to all 28 gates in T4 and T5 at some point?


Yes. They agreed to closure of the Eagles Nest and those gates will be replaced 1 for 1 with T5 gates.
a.
 
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ramprat74
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:51 pm

I thing AA and terminal 4 has had the most construction add ons of any of the terminals in the last 60 years. They were the first to add the widebody gates to the south side of the satellite in the late 60's.
 
aaway
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:56 pm

onwFan wrote:
alasizon wrote:
aaway wrote:

Barring further sked adjustments - unlikely in current environment - Nest is scheduled to reopen in April.


Even once re-opened it'll only have 15-16 flights a day (assuming all the RJ flights go to the Nest) and that is a combination of construction and Mainline gating driven pushing the flights back to the Nest. The re-construction/alignment of taxilane C9 is part of the T4 project which was supposed to start in the coming weeks and closes access to several T4 gates and most of the gates Eagle has been using in T5. Someone currently in LAX can probably comment more about when that process is supposed to start. As I recall it was originally 2021Q3 but then got moved up to take advantage of reduced traffic from COVID.


Wasn’t it mentioned on some threads last year that demolition work on the Eagle’s nest had already started? Given the projected demand at LAX, I don’t see the need for Eagle’s nest to return, especially as MSC is opening, and AA gains access to more gates in T5.


https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... yaojX3fNF2

Yes, in short term driven by the reconstruction of C9. The move back is longer term in anticipation of AA restoring most of the domestic network ex-LAX. Absent already discontinued destinations, Eagle should be at around 55-60 departures at full restoration.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:04 pm

atlflyer wrote:
AA had a topping off ceremony today of the new core aka Terminal 4.5. They released a video as well with new renderings. It really looks like a reconstructed terminal should look. Airy. Bright. Spacious. With a unified façade from the beginning of Terminal 4 to end of Terminal 5. For the life of me I can’t understand why Delta is keeping the 1970s façade directly in front of current T2 when T2.5 and T3 will be modern. AA’s new checkin looks impressive compared with Delta’s which still will have lower ceilings and looks cramped even though it will be brand new.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


I can't wait for this to be done, I hate eating in Terminal 4/5 because of the lack of food options & they are promising improvements with this construction.

All in all LAX is one of my least favorite airports, from the traffic to the terminals, I'm hoping the upcoming projects change that.
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aaway
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:13 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You can't help but wonder if AA and B6 will someday offer seamless connectivity in Terminal 5. Meanwhile, AS seems to have backfilled quite a bit of American Eagle capacity in nearby Terminal 6. All kinds of new and renovated real estate for various carriers to offer as much LAX service as they want. Don't forget that LA hosts the Super Bowl next year, and then the Olympics 6 years later... LAX won't just be exciting to watch, it may actually become a pleasure to use?


JetBlue, and everybody else, will be vacating T5 eventually.


You have inside knowledge of that?

Because the info I have (which isnt inside knowledge) says that you are incorrect.


Key word is eventually. When is "eventually"? - ??? Current lease prohibits AA from using T5 gates for relocation of Eagle (the past year has been with a LAWA granted exception).
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
N649DL
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:58 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
T3 is a freaking dump and it's just way too crowded in the gate area


Was a freaking dump is probably a better way to put it. Delta took advantage of decreased traffic levels and closed the building completely to replace it all at once rather than trying to do a progressive remodel around an operating terminal. LAX posted pictures a couple weeks ago and a good part of T3 simply isn’t there anymore: https://twitter.com/flylaxairport/statu ... 33988?s=10


Oh wow, I can't believe this happened. That's pretty crafty on DL's part (despite them just opening a Sky Club in there?)

Midwestindy wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
AA had a topping off ceremony today of the new core aka Terminal 4.5. They released a video as well with new renderings. It really looks like a reconstructed terminal should look. Airy. Bright. Spacious. With a unified façade from the beginning of Terminal 4 to end of Terminal 5. For the life of me I can’t understand why Delta is keeping the 1970s façade directly in front of current T2 when T2.5 and T3 will be modern. AA’s new checkin looks impressive compared with Delta’s which still will have lower ceilings and looks cramped even though it will be brand new.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


I can't wait for this to be done, I hate eating in Terminal 4/5 because of the lack of food options & they are promising improvements with this construction.

All in all LAX is one of my least favorite airports, from the traffic to the terminals, I'm hoping the upcoming projects change that.


It will likely become one of your favorite airports by the end of the decade. The city is in a rush to get it ready for the 2028 Olympic Games.
 
ldvaviation
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 pm

aaway wrote:
Key word is eventually. When is "eventually"? - ??? Current lease prohibits AA from using T5 gates for relocation of Eagle (the past year has been with a LAWA granted exception).


When JetBlue (B6) outgrows T5 and makes a deal to jump to T9 or T0? It looks now like AA has every intention of completing the T4 rebuild. With completion of the rebuild, AA would meet the terms of its lease and get preferential use to additional gates in T5 --- 10 total (if I remember correctly). That would limit B6's growth in T5. Does B6 work out a side deal with AA? Does B6 make a bigger splash?

When AA and JetBlue merge. Why not? :stirthepot:

For the moment, LAWA and AA have agreed in principle to move Eagle to the MSC South. There is no formal agreement (i.e., lease amendment), but the plan is documented in the EIR for the T4 rebuild.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:38 pm

aaway wrote:
onwFan wrote:
alasizon wrote:

Even once re-opened it'll only have 15-16 flights a day (assuming all the RJ flights go to the Nest) and that is a combination of construction and Mainline gating driven pushing the flights back to the Nest. The re-construction/alignment of taxilane C9 is part of the T4 project which was supposed to start in the coming weeks and closes access to several T4 gates and most of the gates Eagle has been using in T5. Someone currently in LAX can probably comment more about when that process is supposed to start. As I recall it was originally 2021Q3 but then got moved up to take advantage of reduced traffic from COVID.


Wasn’t it mentioned on some threads last year that demolition work on the Eagle’s nest had already started? Given the projected demand at LAX, I don’t see the need for Eagle’s nest to return, especially as MSC is opening, and AA gains access to more gates in T5.


https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... yaojX3fNF2

Yes, in short term driven by the reconstruction of C9. The move back is longer term in anticipation of AA restoring most of the domestic network ex-LAX. Absent already discontinued destinations, Eagle should be at around 55-60 departures at full restoration.


I suppose the Nest will be 40-50 flighs max (regardless of where it is located). MFR, EUG, RDM, FAT, SAN are gone, RNO/SMF/TUS/ABQ/ELP will probably all be down a flight due to less connecting opportunities in LAX and I'd hazard a guess one of the SEA flights will be upgauged to ML. But that is more of a discussion for the larger AA network thread as a whole.

N649DL wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

All in all LAX is one of my least favorite airports, from the traffic to the terminals, I'm hoping the upcoming projects change that.


It will likely become one of your favorite airports by the end of the decade. The city is in a rush to get it ready for the 2028 Olympic Games.


Question is whether or not it will be ready - if traffic picks up too much their schedule might end up being a bit too ambitious.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:29 pm

N649DL wrote:
Oh wow, I can't believe this happened. That's pretty crafty on DL's part (despite them just opening a Sky Club in there?)


The T3 SkyClub was in the location of the Virgin America lounge; it's not a space that was built out from scratch by Delta.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:42 am

aaway wrote:
Key word is eventually. When is "eventually"? - ??? Current lease prohibits AA from using T5 gates for relocation of Eagle (the past year has been with a LAWA granted exception).


I thought the main demand AA had for the removal of the nest was that Eagle moves to T5. If thats not the case, then what did AA gain by demolishing the nest?

ldvaviation wrote:
It looks now like AA has every intention of completing the T4 rebuild. With completion of the rebuild, AA would meet the terms of its lease and get preferential use to additional gates in T5 --- 10 total (if I remember correctly).


Does preferential in this case mean non-CUTE gates with AA branding or just higher priority use?


ldvaviation wrote:
When JetBlue (B6) outgrows T5 and makes a deal to jump to T9 or T0? ...........That would limit B6's growth in T5. Does B6 work out a side deal with AA? Does B6 make a bigger splash?


AA 's goal should be complete control of T5 once and for all. No deals..... unless there is a merger
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:20 am

Will AA continue to use TBIT once all is said and done?
 
N649DL
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:54 am

alasizon wrote:
aaway wrote:
onwFan wrote:

Wasn’t it mentioned on some threads last year that demolition work on the Eagle’s nest had already started? Given the projected demand at LAX, I don’t see the need for Eagle’s nest to return, especially as MSC is opening, and AA gains access to more gates in T5.


https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... yaojX3fNF2

Yes, in short term driven by the reconstruction of C9. The move back is longer term in anticipation of AA restoring most of the domestic network ex-LAX. Absent already discontinued destinations, Eagle should be at around 55-60 departures at full restoration.


I suppose the Nest will be 40-50 flighs max (regardless of where it is located). MFR, EUG, RDM, FAT, SAN are gone, RNO/SMF/TUS/ABQ/ELP will probably all be down a flight due to less connecting opportunities in LAX and I'd hazard a guess one of the SEA flights will be upgauged to ML. But that is more of a discussion for the larger AA network thread as a whole.

N649DL wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

All in all LAX is one of my least favorite airports, from the traffic to the terminals, I'm hoping the upcoming projects change that.


It will likely become one of your favorite airports by the end of the decade. The city is in a rush to get it ready for the 2028 Olympic Games.


Question is whether or not it will be ready - if traffic picks up too much their schedule might end up being a bit too ambitious.


They've got time. The Metro Station is slated to open this year so the main priority is going to be the Automated People Mover System from the Terminals to a remote area connected to the station. That will be the hard part (as it's going to stretch miles) but the other related projects such as the consolidated rental car facility will be easy.

In fact, the LAX project won't be nearly as bad as some of the other planned metro line projects around the city to get ready for the Olympics. I think the line that is going to run into Westwood isn't going to be completed until 2028. Likely it's because they have to blast underground and lay down a lot of new track that wasn't previously there (the Expo Line which runs from Santa Monica to Downtown was easier because they used existing rail lines from the old metro system which suspended in the 1950s.)
 
aaway
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:49 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
aaway wrote:
Key word is eventually. When is "eventually"? - ??? Current lease prohibits AA from using T5 gates for relocation of Eagle (the past year has been with a LAWA granted exception).


I thought the main demand AA had for the removal of the nest was that Eagle moves to T5. If thats not the case, then what did AA gain by demolishing the nest?


It isn't demolished yet. Won't be until site prep begins for T9. Assuming that process takes place within next two to three years, Eagle will be relocated to temporary structure attached to the Midfield Satellite Concourse.

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
[quote="ldvaviation]
It looks now like AA has every intention of completing the T4 rebuild. With completion of the rebuild, AA would meet the terms of its lease and get preferential use to additional gates in T5 --- 10 total (if I remember correctly).

Does preferential in this case mean non-CUTE gates with AA branding or just higher priority use?[/quote]


Higher priority use, though LAWA is planning for all CUTE throughout terminal complex.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:39 pm

I feel like AA has historically, since the 1980s anyway, prioritized the aesthetics and usability of its LAX terminal, which underwent several makeovers. It is one of the best located of LAX's otherwise horrible layout, given its proximity, and direct access to TBIT, and thus its alliance partner flights (as well as its own). Delta will, once finished, have a similar benefit. I always thought UA had a decent set up over at 7 and 8 but it wasn't until the most recent renovations that the facility was better harmonized. It is however, a long trek to TBIT for *A flights, which would only be resolved with the buildout of a T9.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:30 pm

Byrdluvs747 wrote:

I thought the main demand AA had for the removal of the nest was that Eagle moves to T5. If thats not the case, then what did AA gain by demolishing the nest?

Does preferential in this case mean non-CUTE gates with AA branding or just higher priority use?

AA 's goal should be complete control of T5 once and for all. No deals..... unless there is a merger


"Preferential use" means what it means for everyone else --- gate signage, gate podiums, and scheduling. After the T4 lease buyout, there are no "exclusive" gates at the airport.

With 10 gates at T5, AA will have effective control of T5. The 10 preferential AA gates + the 2 remaining common use gates limit growth for any other airline in T5.

From a strategic standpoint, I think AA wanted to keep the Eagle facility as along as possible. It provided them with additional leverage down the line. Even with the move to the MSC South, AA retains that leverage.

As to the MSC South, aaway characterized the concourse extension as "temporary." I think it will be around for a long time. On that note, it's worth noting that for a "temporary" structure it will be in many ways (e.g., jetways) more permanent than the current Eagle facility. LAWA has compared the MSC south extension to Denver's B-East expansion.

Here is the press release on the MSC South from the architectural firm working on the project:
https://www.woodsbagot.com/global-studi ... concourse/
 
AAguy1992
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:18 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:19 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


Asia service from LAX on AA will be just to HND. PVG/PEK/HKG are gone and won't be coming back. The future of LAX TPAC service though will be focused on Australia and New Zealand, once both reopen to international travel. AA has been operating LAX-SYD, in line with capacity (pax) restrictions, since November 2020 when it resumed. AKL will return and CHC may eventually begin in 2022 or later. I can also see an LAX-MEL or BNE route in the future on AA metal to complement QF. With Virgin Australia out of the market and the demand for service likely to be very strong once vaccinations and Covid rates are in check in both Australia and the US, the demand will rebound quite strongly.



AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,
AAGuy 1992 :D
 
2cn
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:55 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Oh wow, I can't believe this happened. That's pretty crafty on DL's part (despite them just opening a Sky Club in there?)


The T3 SkyClub was in the location of the Virgin America lounge; it's not a space that was built out from scratch by Delta.


They also renovated the space Virgin America used for their crew/employee lounge, it was on the same level as the other lounge just across the hall nearer to the elevators. It would open after the other lounge and close before it, it was a clear quick response to the demand to get into the lounge in t3.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:04 am

AAguy1992 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


Asia service from LAX on AA will be just to HND. PVG/PEK/HKG are gone and won't be coming back. The future of LAX TPAC service though will be focused on Australia and New Zealand, once both reopen to international travel. AA has been operating LAX-SYD, in line with capacity (pax) restrictions, since November 2020 when it resumed. AKL will return and CHC may eventually begin in 2022 or later. I can also see an LAX-MEL or BNE route in the future on AA metal to complement QF. With Virgin Australia out of the market and the demand for service likely to be very strong once vaccinations and Covid rates are in check in both Australia and the US, the demand will rebound quite strongly.



AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,

AA is moving PVG to SEA pending approval. If they want to fly PEK I don’t think that will be from LAX either
 
Yonderlust
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:32 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:05 am

So glad to see a clean design for T4/T5. I'm normally a fan of barrel vaults but the ones in T4 have always struck me as out of place and aesthetically ugly. Let the sunshine in!
 
aaway
Posts: 1503
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:06 am

ldvaviation wrote:
"Preferential use" means what it means for everyone else --- gate signage, gate podiums, and scheduling. After the T4 lease buyout, there are no "exclusive" gates at the airport.

With 10 gates at T5, AA will have effective control of T5. The 10 preferential AA gates + the 2 remaining common use gates limit growth for any other airline in T5.

From a strategic standpoint, I think AA wanted to keep the Eagle facility as along as possible. It provided them with additional leverage down the line. Even with the move to the MSC South, AA retains that leverage.

As to the MSC South, aaway characterized the concourse extension as "temporary." I think it will be around for a long time. On that note, it's worth noting that for a "temporary" structure it will be in many ways (e.g., jetways) more permanent than the current Eagle facility. LAWA has compared the MSC south extension to Denver's B-East expansion.

Here is the press release on the MSC South from the architectural firm working on the project:
https://www.woodsbagot.com/global-studi ... concourse/


I'm not sure comparing MSC South to the Eagle satellite is germane. That building is of another era, was developed under different circumstances, and modified as conditions warranted..

However, I can agree that trying to define a state of permanence vs. interim usage is an exercise in futility at this point. Looking at the proposal for the facility, LAWA indicated a desired lifespan of 30 years. On the other hand, the structure is being constructed on the cheap (relatively speaking), without many of the accoutrements of its sister facility. And despite the fact MSC South won't mirror MSC North in dimension nor appearance, LAWA has standards for levels of service & appearance for the passenger facilities for which it expects adherence to.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
chonetsao
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:38 am

AAguy1992 wrote:
AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,


I am not aware communist China allows PEK and PVG to publicly auction the slots in two above airports. Care to explain why and how the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive? If so why not AA sell those slots they no longer need when they exited China routes from Chicago and Los Angeles? Is there a system in PVG and PEK like the slot trading scheme in LHR that I am not aware of?
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:37 pm

AAguy1992 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Personally, I always thought that T4 was the nicest domestic terminal at LAX, so I am looking forward to seeing what the renovations bring. I was just there last week and I still think its nicer than the UA/DL terminal set up at LAX.

I do wonder about AA's plans for LAX post-COVID, especially seeing that they will eventually be occupying most of T5. I thought HKG was going to for sure come back, but apparently that rumor has been quashed internally from what I have heard. I am hearing most of the domestic network will return, although I am hearing that MSY/CHM/SAF will not be returning. IAD is apparently up in the air, but I would be shocked if they don't return to LAX-IAD as well.


Asia service from LAX on AA will be just to HND. PVG/PEK/HKG are gone and won't be coming back. The future of LAX TPAC service though will be focused on Australia and New Zealand, once both reopen to international travel. AA has been operating LAX-SYD, in line with capacity (pax) restrictions, since November 2020 when it resumed. AKL will return and CHC may eventually begin in 2022 or later. I can also see an LAX-MEL or BNE route in the future on AA metal to complement QF. With Virgin Australia out of the market and the demand for service likely to be very strong once vaccinations and Covid rates are in check in both Australia and the US, the demand will rebound quite strongly.



AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,


CX will emerge a smaller carrier but I think it is premature to call it dead. The issue with PVG out of LAX was the competition. AA, UA, DL, and China Eastern all flew it, illustrating the fundamental problem with LAX in that a lot of these routes have multiple carriers and the yields are not amazing. It's likely there won't be a big rush to fill a lot of CX's void on routes and markets it won't restart. HKG as a premier business hub is changing (it already was in 2019 before the pandemic and the process has only accelerated). It will remain a key hub but more of its core businesses are migrating to Shanghai while others to Taipei and Singapore. It will take a long time for TPAC service to reach pre-pandemic levels. Business travel, notably to the region broadly, will be very slow to return. The AA route to PVG from LAX is shifting to SEA yes, but its success is far from assured. SEA is geographically ideal for TPAC service and AA has the resources of AS to draw on for feed, but without meaningful business demand, I don't see this route lasting long. AA's fundamental problem with Asia is a gateway aside from DFW that works. It couldn't make ORD work and LAX is too crowded. I do think that if CX's footprint is much reduced, notably on top business markets where frequency was once a factor, like NYC broadly (JFK and EWR), I can see the argument for AA to add JFK-HKG on the 77W but realistically, only if business demand rebounds.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:39 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,


I am not aware communist China allows PEK and PVG to publicly auction the slots in two above airports. Care to explain why and how the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive? If so why not AA sell those slots they no longer need when they exited China routes from Chicago and Los Angeles? Is there a system in PVG and PEK like the slot trading scheme in LHR that I am not aware of?


I thought the same too. PEK had (pre-pandemic) congestion issues but not aware of PVG being slot restricted. Access to PVG came quickly for a lot of US carriers who wanted it at the time they launched the services.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:00 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,


I am not aware communist China allows PEK and PVG to publicly auction the slots in two above airports. Care to explain why and how the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive? If so why not AA sell those slots they no longer need when they exited China routes from Chicago and Los Angeles? Is there a system in PVG and PEK like the slot trading scheme in LHR that I am not aware of?

I believe there's a limited amount of slots per week for US airlines to fly to Tier-1 Chinese cities(CAN, PEK, PVG, etc). If you give that slot up that goes back to DOT for reallocation. Pre-pandemic all the slots are taken so it's pretty expensive to give up one if you want to re-enter the service on a later date. See the discussion when AA ended service from ORD to China viewtopic.php?t=1393121
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:06 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
AAguy1992 wrote:
AA will slowly restart the TPAC back to China, with CX looking not to last much longer. It would be to the benefit of the OW. Also the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive. Doug is cheap but not stupid,


I am not aware communist China allows PEK and PVG to publicly auction the slots in two above airports. Care to explain why and how the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive? If so why not AA sell those slots they no longer need when they exited China routes from Chicago and Los Angeles? Is there a system in PVG and PEK like the slot trading scheme in LHR that I am not aware of?


I thought the same too. PEK had (pre-pandemic) congestion issues but not aware of PVG being slot restricted. Access to PVG came quickly for a lot of US carriers who wanted it at the time they launched the services.

It's less about airport slots. PEK/PVG shares the same Tier 1 slots for US airlines to fly to China. If AA gives them up and they go back to DOT pretty sure DL/UA's gonna grab them.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26529
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA LAX T4/T5 Renovation

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:27 pm

SEAflyer97 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

I am not aware communist China allows PEK and PVG to publicly auction the slots in two above airports. Care to explain why and how the slots at PVG and PEK were very expensive? If so why not AA sell those slots they no longer need when they exited China routes from Chicago and Los Angeles? Is there a system in PVG and PEK like the slot trading scheme in LHR that I am not aware of?


I thought the same too. PEK had (pre-pandemic) congestion issues but not aware of PVG being slot restricted. Access to PVG came quickly for a lot of US carriers who wanted it at the time they launched the services.

It's less about airport slots. PEK/PVG shares the same Tier 1 slots for US airlines to fly to China. If AA gives them up and they go back to DOT pretty sure DL/UA's gonna grab them.


The PVG slot has moved to SEA. The PEK slots were given up. Nobody wants them.

AA will def be back in LA-China in a few years time, there’s no question about it.
a.

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