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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:48 pm

DL just hasn't done much with AUS. it's been listed as a focus city for much longer than the pandemic, but just seems so stable and spoke like. They never seem to try any o&d flying . What AA launched is what delta should have been before the pandemic. Not sure aus can really support two legacy carriers
 
Antarius
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:50 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

DL's plans in AUS were always wishful thinking. All of their hubs being 1000 miles away makes them pretty useless for AUS based travellers.


Why? One builds a focus city on O&D. And why does it matter if you connect in DFW or ATL/JFK if you're headed AUS-Europe?


You have to have a nearby hub to make a focus city work. Focus cities by their nature have limited schedules and frequencies so the carrier must have alternate ways to connect passengers. DL can't do this for AUS based passengers without major backtracking for large portions of the country.


Why?

Having a hub nearby means you send your passengers to the hub. The point of a focus city is to give O&D more options AND provide some sort of "mini hub" because you lack coverage.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=aus-atl;au ... tw;aus-slc
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ty97
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:50 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
AA was always strong in AUS.

Just 15 years ago, all those WN 737s were AA MD 80s.

Just returning to their roots


Yes, but the dynamics have changed. A lot. AUS is a much, much larger business and leisure demand destination than it was 15 years ago and will only continue to grow that way. The AS and B6 overlay will be a very serious challenge to DL.


B6 has limited service to AUS. I remember how excited I was when B6 announced service to AUS when I lived there years ago. Today B6, has just about the same amount of service (maybe a couple of more flights now) than that they did at launch.

I think AS and its west coast routes provide more than B6 for AA (at AUS specifically).

If I was still in AUS flying AA though I'd be happy to see this expansion that I long wanted them to try. That cornerstone strategy was the worst.

With AUS's non-stop growth, it seems there is probably room for more than one airline to start adding spokes. Will be interesting to see.

ETA: It will also be interesting to see how may routes added over the past 6 months (by AA and other airlines, at AUS and elsewhere) stick long-term. With business travel decimated and most long-haul international relatively off-limits to Americans, airlines have been trying different and unique routes. As things (slowly) get back toward normal (or 'new normal') I wonder how many of these adventures will stick around.
Last edited by ty97 on Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:51 pm

"Fortune favors the bold."
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:51 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
seatback wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
With these additions by AS and AA is it possible to make connections in AUS now? Hopefully AA/AS keeps adding more routes to AUS. Would love to see a few others added such as SNA/SLC/MCI.

Also I don’t know where DL goes from here. Like many have said, they showed their hand too early. Crazy as it sounds I wonder if DL should look into building DFW into a focus city now, that’s for a different thread though.


This was my thought too. I believe Delta has a lot of FF loyalty still in DFW. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of growth, just to try to stick it to AA (maybe: DFW-RDU/MIA/MCO/LAS/BOS).


Yeah, that was maybe the airline biz of the 1980s and 1990s but not now. DL does have a loyal base in DFW, but trying to add big growth there is the same as AA trying to build a larger footprint in ATL. It is a bit futile.


I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.
 
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NCAD95
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:55 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
seatback wrote:

This was my thought too. I believe Delta has a lot of FF loyalty still in DFW. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of growth, just to try to stick it to AA (maybe: DFW-RDU/MIA/MCO/LAS/BOS).


Yeah, that was maybe the airline biz of the 1980s and 1990s but not now. DL does have a loyal base in DFW, but trying to add big growth there is the same as AA trying to build a larger footprint in ATL. It is a bit futile.


I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:56 pm

Antarius wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Why? One builds a focus city on O&D. And why does it matter if you connect in DFW or ATL/JFK if you're headed AUS-Europe?


You have to have a nearby hub to make a focus city work. Focus cities by their nature have limited schedules and frequencies so the carrier must have alternate ways to connect passengers. DL can't do this for AUS based passengers without major backtracking for large portions of the country.


Why?

Having a hub nearby means you send your passengers to the hub. The point of a focus city is to give O&D more options AND provide some sort of "mini hub" because you lack coverage.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=aus-atl;au ... tw;aus-slc


Without with a nearby hub, you are not getting that O&D. Do you not see the big hole in the map you posted? What can DL do for pax that need to fly AUS-STL or AUS-COS? UA and AA don't have that issue.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:59 pm

Antarius wrote:
n9801f wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
And why does it matter if you connect in DFW or ATL/JFK if you're headed AUS-Europe?


Proximity to a spoke enables an airline to serve it well - low aircraft requirements and bigger theater of connection possibilities.

AA should be bigger than DL in AUS due to nearness of DFW
DL should be bigger than AA in BHM due to nearness of ATL
etc.

You (or DL at AUS) can try to fight these basic properties of physics, but at the end of the day you're trying to climb uphill. Your competitor is naturally on top of it and doesn't have to work nearly as hard as you to win.


Not necessarily at all.

CRP for example is far closer to IAH/HOU than DFW and yet AA has a bigger footprint than UA.


Not sure the disparity in distance is large enough in that case to inform one way or another. Neither are far, just slightly different degrees of closeness. Cities that are fortunate to be close in the air travel sense to more than one hub will have more flexibility/variability in which carriers establish themselves as dominant.
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kavok
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:08 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

DL's plans in AUS were always wishful thinking. All of their hubs being 1000 miles away makes them pretty useless for AUS based travellers.


Why? One builds a focus city on O&D. And why does it matter if you connect in DFW or ATL/JFK if you're headed AUS-Europe?


You have to have a nearby hub to make a focus city work. Focus cities by their nature have limited schedules and frequencies so the carrier must have alternate ways to connect passengers. DL can't do this for AUS based passengers without major backtracking for large portions of the country.


This is true. Which is why I am surprised DL isn’t doing a better job of defending places like IND, CMH, MKE, etc. where geography can work to their advantage.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:09 pm

kavok wrote:

This is true. Which is why I am surprised DL isn’t doing a better job of defending places like IND, CMH, MKE, etc. where geography can work to their advantage.


Time to dust off the "Heartland station" playbook!
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ty97
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:10 pm

Spirit just announced AUS-PNS (not a retaliation announcement, they just happened to announce a bunch of STL and PNS routes right now). A bit of competition for AA's new AUS-VPS though.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:14 pm

Can anyone give me a breakdown on the number of gates used by AA/AS and I guess B6?

Midwestindy wrote:
Very cool they got Oracle involved:

“Austin is a vibrant technology hub where companies like Oracle are growing, investing and innovating for the future,” said Rita Visser, Director of Global Travel Sourcing, Oracle. “We look forward to relying on American Airlines’ additional routes to support not just employees traveling to our new Austin headquarters, but also our customers and partners who are building their businesses with Oracle Cloud.”


I admit that I am not up to date with AUS. Does this statement indicate a new, an existing, or an expanded corporate contract between AA and Oracle?

alohashirts wrote:
I actually think there’s a better chance we see another international OneWorld airline partner come to AUS before KL ever does. Maybe JL doing NRT-AUS is what I’m thinking.


I was thinking the same thing. AUS already has three OW airlines, and adding a fourth would make it even tougher for DL. I also believe JL to be the likely candidate, as neither EI or IB fly to secondary cities in the US.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
n9801f
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:15 pm

Antarius wrote:
Not necessarily at all.
CRP for example is far closer to IAH/HOU than DFW and yet AA has a bigger footprint than UA.


Due to geography, both DFW and IAH have nearly equally high utility for CRP connections. (The further trek to DFW doesn't eliminate much useful catchment area.)

But the bigger point is that AA has a much bigger hub in DFW than UA does in IAH.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:26 pm

Aggressive move by AA - I like their evolving network planning paradigm! In addition to making a play for the AUS traffic, AA should be able to get some passengers from the other end on routes like AUS-BNA/RDU/IAD where they offer competitive networks and have some brand history. They also have the benefit of knowing their top onward connection destinations from AUS beyond DFW - I'm sure that factored into the set of destinations selected for nonstop service.
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ty97
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:34 pm

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
Can anyone give me a breakdown on the number of gates used by AA/AS and I guess B6?


AA: 23,24,26,28,30
B6: 12 (with an asterisk from the AUS airport so they may also use common use gate space?)
Alaska: Common use gates (there are several IINM).


Per real-time flight information on the AUS site, AS is using 32 and 34 this afternoon.
Jetblue is using mainly 12 with a couple of flights at Gate 6.

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defau ... unters.pdf
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:44 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Yeah, that was maybe the airline biz of the 1980s and 1990s but not now. DL does have a loyal base in DFW, but trying to add big growth there is the same as AA trying to build a larger footprint in ATL. It is a bit futile.


I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


Agreed. Delta's DFW hub wasn't small but not big enough to compete with AA and DFW is not ORD where two airlines can hub like that. I don't see DL making moves in DFW other than adding its best products (A220 etc..) on key business routes to major DL markets where it can compete with a cut above product vs. AA.
Last edited by ContinentalEWR on Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avi8
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:44 pm

I think this makes AUS the largest legacy focus city. 11 new mainline flights with most destinations having 2 daily flights. This is aggressive and I like it. It’s been a while since we’ve seen AA take the first punch.
avi8
 
n9801f
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:51 pm

FSDan wrote:
I like their evolving network planning paradigm!


Can you elaborate?

As I see it, AA is simply methodically leveraging its network's fundamentals and choosing battles that it's well positioned to win.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:12 pm

xdlx wrote:
No Caribbean Love? MBJ, SJU, GCM?


SJU has been on Austin Airport’s wishlist for a while now. I’d expect AUS-SJU to be a JetBlue route if it launches, but after seeing these new adds (ASE/VPS/IAD), I have no idea what to expect anymore.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:18 pm

n9801f wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Not necessarily at all.
CRP for example is far closer to IAH/HOU than DFW and yet AA has a bigger footprint than UA.


Due to geography, both DFW and IAH have nearly equally high utility for CRP connections. (The further trek to DFW doesn't eliminate much useful catchment area.)

But the bigger point is that AA has a much bigger hub in DFW than UA does in IAH.


I would also say that most people who need to travel just from Corpus to Houston typically drive. Its only a three hour drive.

On the other hand driving from Corpus to Dallas is a 6 hour drive. Makes a big difference when making the decision of whether to fly or drive.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pm

avi8 wrote:
I think this makes AUS the largest legacy focus city. 11 new mainline flights with most destinations having 2 daily flights. This is aggressive and I like it. It’s been a while since we’ve seen AA take the first punch.


AA at BOS is much larger, AA has 100+ departures from BOS scheduled this summer (obviously many will be cut)

I think DL at RDU may also be larger depending on what actually comes back, although much of the RDU flying pre-covid was RJs

But yeah, it's definitely one of the largest.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:38 pm

Nice to see AA add another LAS route. AA is always strong in Texas.

Hopefully JFK-LAS follows?
 
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Polot
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:39 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Nice to see AA add another LAS route. AA is always strong in Texas.

Hopefully JFK-LAS follows?

AA already flies JFK-LAS. Or is planning on flying it, unsure how things currently stand with Covid.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:43 pm

Polot wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Nice to see AA add another LAS route. AA is always strong in Texas.

Hopefully JFK-LAS follows?

AA already flies JFK-LAS.


It has not since 2019. It was back for a short period of time before it being axed due to the pandemic. My indication of AA's NYC operation during the pandemic is based on the routes of JFK-LAS/SEA.

I just hope they bring it back.
 
ty97
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:49 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Polot wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Nice to see AA add another LAS route. AA is always strong in Texas.

Hopefully JFK-LAS follows?

AA already flies JFK-LAS.


It has not since 2019. It was back for a short period of time before it being axed due to the pandemic. My indication of AA's NYC operation during the pandemic is based on the routes of JFK-LAS/SEA.

I just hope they bring it back.


With the B6 partnership, I have some doubts of AA returning to JFK-LAS.

But I don't understand what AA's NYC strategy is, to be honest.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:55 pm

ty97 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Polot wrote:
AA already flies JFK-LAS.


It has not since 2019. It was back for a short period of time before it being axed due to the pandemic. My indication of AA's NYC operation during the pandemic is based on the routes of JFK-LAS/SEA.

I just hope they bring it back.


With the B6 partnership, I have some doubts of AA returning to JFK-LAS.

But I don't understand what AA's NYC strategy is, to be honest.


If AA doesn't bring back JFK-LAS, my mission has failed. It was always a good route for them. The route did very well.

B6 partnership may have an impact, but AA still needs to bring back their JFK operations. T8 is too good of a facility to not fortify. I wish I knew AA's NYC strategy also. I am still stuck in the past when they had all those Caribbean and TCON flights.
 
777Mech
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:56 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Yeah, that was maybe the airline biz of the 1980s and 1990s but not now. DL does have a loyal base in DFW, but trying to add big growth there is the same as AA trying to build a larger footprint in ATL. It is a bit futile.


I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


DFW has the 3rd biggest skymiles members outside of hubs, behind only BNA and MCI.
 
Runway765
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:08 pm

777Mech wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


DFW has the 3rd biggest skymiles members outside of hubs, behind only BNA and MCI.


Source?
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:10 pm

ty97 wrote:
Spirit just announced AUS-PNS (not a retaliation announcement, they just happened to announce a bunch of STL and PNS routes right now). A bit of competition for AA's new AUS-VPS though.


WN also has Saturday-only service on AUS-PNS and AUS-ECP schedulee for this summer. This was flown previously in 2019 and was scheduled in 2020 (but chopped due to COVID). Folks in AUS will certainly have some options this summer for Panhandle travel.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:16 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:

It has not since 2019. It was back for a short period of time before it being axed due to the pandemic. My indication of AA's NYC operation during the pandemic is based on the routes of JFK-LAS/SEA.

I just hope they bring it back.


With the B6 partnership, I have some doubts of AA returning to JFK-LAS.

But I don't understand what AA's NYC strategy is, to be honest.


If AA doesn't bring back JFK-LAS, my mission has failed. It was always a good route for them. The route did very well.

B6 partnership may have an impact, but AA still needs to bring back their JFK operations. T8 is too good of a facility to not fortify. I wish I knew AA's NYC strategy also. I am still stuck in the past when they had all those Caribbean and TCON flights.


Vasu Raja recently said part of their NYC strategy is to remove flights with 50-seaters from LGA and have JetBlue use those slots to mostly sunshine destinations. AA will then use some of JetBlue's JFK slots to expand internationally (ATH, TLV, MDE, CLO, BOG, SCL) and likely to where JetBlue currently can't fly, such as SNA since they don't have access to slots.
 
ChrisPBacon
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:27 pm

Jet-lagged wrote:
The quote in the press release from the Director of Travel Sourcing at Oracle was a nice touch.


I'm guessing Oracle re-signed a travel agreement with AA, or got poached from another carrier? There's part of the story we don't know yet. But I bet the contract made this expansion viable.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:30 pm

777Mech wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


DFW has the 3rd biggest skymiles members outside of hubs, behind only BNA and MCI.


That may be, and AA has a huge pool of FF's in the NYC area, but it's not building a bigger hub there either.
 
ScottB
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:32 pm

USAirALB wrote:
AUS-IAD is an interesting one. Obviously they can't serve AUS-DCA without a perimeter slot, but I found the public comment from an AA Exec (that has since been retracted) stating something akin to "we would obviously rather do DCA, but IAD is the second best option".


Well, they've got two slots they could use for AUS-DCA; they'd just have to drop one or both of their LAX-DCA flights to repurpose the slots. That's obviously not going to happen.

seatback wrote:
Austin city/airport planners certainly did a poor job looking into the future. Austin is one of the newest airports in the US and already needs an overhaul.


I don't think that's true at all. The new airport had 50% more gates than Mueller when it opened, and the master plan allowed for the east concourse extension which ultimately allowed for over double the number of gates compared to Mueller. Admittedly, Mueller was bursting at the seams, but it took 20 years for air traffic to grow to the point where the originally-planned expansion became inadequate, and the rate of growth in Austin is highly unusual. It took 15 years for traffic to reach the design capacity of 11 million passengers and then traffic just exploded.

Overbuilding facilities can be a problem if optimistic traffic forecasts are never achieved.
 
N649DL
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:35 pm

runway23 wrote:
You snooze you lose.

Delta must be telling themselves they should have kept their plans quiet.


DL's announcement of the BNA / AUS / SJC Focus Cities I'm convinced was all P.R. fluff. I was living in AUS at the time and all they really added was A220 service and a new Sky Club. If you announce a Focus City, you typically add routes when you do so. You don't sit on it. They also announced AUS as a Focus City over 6 months ahead of when the pandemic hit. The only Focus City that seems like it sticks right now is RDU.

AA on the other hand has always had AUS flyers in their back pocket heavily connecting them via frequent service to the nearby DFW mega hub. Also recall them for many years flying the "Nerd Bird" route, AUS-SJC (some being on 757s) which was kept around well after they closed the SJC hub. AUS-RDU is a repeat as I think it was briefly operated back in 2007 when AA expanded RDU again but it was on a S80.

kavok wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Why? One builds a focus city on O&D. And why does it matter if you connect in DFW or ATL/JFK if you're headed AUS-Europe?


You have to have a nearby hub to make a focus city work. Focus cities by their nature have limited schedules and frequencies so the carrier must have alternate ways to connect passengers. DL can't do this for AUS based passengers without major backtracking for large portions of the country.


This is true. Which is why I am surprised DL isn’t doing a better job of defending places like IND, CMH, MKE, etc. where geography can work to their advantage.


Probably not enough loyalty there for DL to defend these cities: Especially right now. Most of the Heartland expansion was inherited from NW which always seemed like it was on a trial basis. Surprised some routes stuck around as long as they did.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:44 pm

Why do we think DL can’t still come in and steal
Corporate customers? They have been successful in doing it before. Being the first to the make announcements doesn’t mean you will be successful. Delta wouldn’t make it a focus city without having backing of contracts or doing the due diligence. I’m sure they didn’t expect AA or southwest to just sit back.

Also there is this premise that because AA is adding flights during this time that they are more successful during the pandemic. The various strategies seem to be working well for their organizations at varying degrees.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:49 pm

AA is no stranger to AUS p2p flying. IIRC, the airline once even operated an AUS-HOU so that pax headed to perimeter-restricted LGA (or was it DCA?) could have a hassle-free stop versus connecting at a madhouse like DFW or ORD.

I also recall there being quite some stir when AA abandoned the "nerd bird" AUS-SJC flights that were a relic of the bygone SJC hub. I believe AUS-RDU may have operated nonstop after the demise of AA's RDU hub as well.

Nice to see some service resumptions and other services begin for the first time. I never would have expected a place like AUS to benefit from increased partnership between AA, AS and B6 - but then again, all 3 carriers have shown considerable interest in expanding in Austin over the years! Why wouldn't B6 metal handle flights to places like CUN and EWR with AA codeshare, whilst AS can cover nonstop services to its focus cities like BOI and SAN while very well known AA can handle the likes of BNA and LAS that would never make sense for the other two to dare operate.

Now you have to wonder if other places like RDU, SAN and perhaps even the likes of DEN and MCO could stand to benefit from the new AA/AS/B6 alliance. Very exciting times!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Western727
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:56 pm

777Mech wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


DFW has the 3rd biggest skymiles members outside of hubs, behind only BNA and MCI.


DFW has a much bigger population than BNA and MCI, so the notion that it's behind them both in Skymiles members is telling.
Jack @ AUS
 
Runway765
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:00 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
Why do we think DL can’t still come in and steal
Corporate customers? They have been successful in doing it before. Being the first to the make announcements doesn’t mean you will be successful. Delta wouldn’t make it a focus city without having backing of contracts or doing the due diligence. I’m sure they didn’t expect AA or southwest to just sit back.

Also there is this premise that because AA is adding flights during this time that they are more successful during the pandemic. The various strategies seem to be working well for their organizations at varying degrees.


Because they are virtually out of time to do anything. Like I said last week, at this point, DL needs to build a hub at AUS if they want ANY chance at success, and they don't need a hub there. DL really should have kept its mouth shut about the whole focus city thing until they actually announced some routes. This is just another example of DL's arrogance.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:13 pm

Western727 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:

Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


DFW has the 3rd biggest skymiles members outside of hubs, behind only BNA and MCI.


DFW has a much bigger population than BNA and MCI, so the notion that it's behind them both in Skymiles members is telling.


Well said. An additional point, the auto traffic into and out of Terminal E at DFW is horrific. DFW-based sky miles members indeed.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:14 pm

NWAESC wrote:
"Fortune favors the bold."


For me the AUS-ASE flight makes me optimistic about the future of human civilization.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:29 pm

Awesome news. I'm glad someone finally stood up to Delta and told them no.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:49 pm

This may have been a move to blunt DL expanding at AUS but these additions are routes dominated by WN and I do believe AUS is a market where WN will defend its turf. Taking on WN in AUS is going to be a taller order than SEA or BOS where the AA/AS/B6 "love triangle" is only battling DL. WN has a very loyal following at AUS and in Texas as a whole. WN is the "hometown favorite" and "old reliable" to many people in Texas. WNs brand is so strong here that wealthier Texans (especially outside of the DFW and IAH catchment) will eschew first class on legacies because they perceive WN to be a better operation. WN and DL also perform much better operationally than AA and B6. That will have to improve if they want AUS travelers to give up "old reliable" WN and fly with them.

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... sportation

This also begs the question, what WNs answer to this look like? WN has been VERY aggressive during the pandemic. If they decided to expand in Alaska and/or the Pacific Northwest then the red ink will really start flowing. WN is also very big in California and could redouble their efforts there. The love triangle airlines are all in poorer financial positions than WN or DL. WN (and to some degree DL) have the money to withstand this type of multi-front war more so than AA/AS/B6.

Let's also not forget that AA has built up and pulled back non-hub flying from AUS before. Things are fungible right now. Airlines are trying new things but in the past when the price of crude has gone up and business travel isn't strong, the legacies have all tended to retreat to their hubs. I'm not saying this time can't be different, but that's what has historically happened.
 
formeraa
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:57 pm

Runway765 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Seriously, Delta's been conservative during the pandemic. While AA and JetBlue have been expanding in New York/Boston, Delta really hasn't retaliated. Now AA's creating more of an Austin "focus city". This will be fun to watch.


No kidding. Them and UA are just rolling over.


While I generally agree, I would say that DL has been conservative in some places, but aggressive in other (e.g. SEA). They were clearly NOT going to let AS take over SEA for sure.
 
formeraa
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:05 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
This may have been a move to blunt DL expanding at AUS but these additions are routes dominated by WN and I do believe AUS is a market where WN will defend its turf. Taking on WN in AUS is going to be a taller order than SEA or BOS where the AA/AS/B6 "love triangle" is only battling DL. WN has a very loyal following at AUS and in Texas as a whole. WN is the "hometown favorite" and "old reliable" to many people in Texas. WNs brand is so strong here that wealthier Texans (especially outside of the DFW and IAH catchment) will eschew first class on legacies because they perceive WN to be a better operation. WN and DL also perform much better operationally than AA and B6. That will have to improve if they want AUS travelers to give up "old reliable" WN and fly with them.

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... sportation

This also begs the question, what WNs answer to this look like? WN has been VERY aggressive during the pandemic. If they decided to expand in Alaska and/or the Pacific Northwest then the red ink will really start flowing. WN is also very big in California and could redouble their efforts there. The love triangle airlines are all in poorer financial positions than WN or DL. WN (and to some degree DL) have the money to withstand this type of multi-front war more so than AA/AS/B6.

Let's also not forget that AA has built up and pulled back non-hub flying from AUS before. Things are fungible right now. Airlines are trying new things but in the past when the price of crude has gone up and business travel isn't strong, the legacies have all tended to retreat to their hubs. I'm not saying this time can't be different, but that's what has historically happened.


I generally agree with your assessment. I would just add that AA will inevitably be very aggressive with Elite offers to corporate clients. Get Gold or Platinum immediately, then fly x more flights in 4 months to keep it. So, while WN has its fan club, AA might have a compelling counter offer.
 
Runway765
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:06 pm

formeraa wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Seriously, Delta's been conservative during the pandemic. While AA and JetBlue have been expanding in New York/Boston, Delta really hasn't retaliated. Now AA's creating more of an Austin "focus city". This will be fun to watch.


No kidding. Them and UA are just rolling over.


While I generally agree, I would say that DL has been conservative in some places, but aggressive in other (e.g. SEA). They were clearly NOT going to let AS take over SEA for sure.


Yep, go ahead and burn money in Seattle getting beat by AS/Oneworld while ignoring a golden opportunity in Texas. Seems like a winning strategy to me.
 
steveAUS
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:59 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:11 pm

This is thrilling news for AA and AUS. So much for the old saying among us Austin AA FFs, "I may to heaven, I may go to hell, but either way I'll have to connect through DFW!"

Not to open this can of worms yet again, but...these moves will only fuel my theory that when AUS does get TPAC (not that it'll happen anytime soon) it'll be a OW carrier to TYO.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14983
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:12 pm

formeraa wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
This may have been a move to blunt DL expanding at AUS but these additions are routes dominated by WN and I do believe AUS is a market where WN will defend its turf. Taking on WN in AUS is going to be a taller order than SEA or BOS where the AA/AS/B6 "love triangle" is only battling DL. WN has a very loyal following at AUS and in Texas as a whole. WN is the "hometown favorite" and "old reliable" to many people in Texas. WNs brand is so strong here that wealthier Texans (especially outside of the DFW and IAH catchment) will eschew first class on legacies because they perceive WN to be a better operation. WN and DL also perform much better operationally than AA and B6. That will have to improve if they want AUS travelers to give up "old reliable" WN and fly with them.

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... sportation

This also begs the question, what WNs answer to this look like? WN has been VERY aggressive during the pandemic. If they decided to expand in Alaska and/or the Pacific Northwest then the red ink will really start flowing. WN is also very big in California and could redouble their efforts there. The love triangle airlines are all in poorer financial positions than WN or DL. WN (and to some degree DL) have the money to withstand this type of multi-front war more so than AA/AS/B6.

Let's also not forget that AA has built up and pulled back non-hub flying from AUS before. Things are fungible right now. Airlines are trying new things but in the past when the price of crude has gone up and business travel isn't strong, the legacies have all tended to retreat to their hubs. I'm not saying this time can't be different, but that's what has historically happened.


I generally agree with your assessment. I would just add that AA will inevitably be very aggressive with Elite offers to corporate clients. Get Gold or Platinum immediately, then fly x more flights in 4 months to keep it. So, while WN has its fan club, AA might have a compelling counter offer.


I have many years when I fly AA five or fewer segments per year, though the average yield is often pretty high (refundable coach or sometimes paid F). They gift me Platinum every 4 or 5 years. I swear people do not earn status initially any other way at AA. For what it's worth, these offers do increase my AA flying but not typically enough that I lose my WN or DL status.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:15 pm

Runway765 wrote:
formeraa wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

No kidding. Them and UA are just rolling over.


While I generally agree, I would say that DL has been conservative in some places, but aggressive in other (e.g. SEA). They were clearly NOT going to let AS take over SEA for sure.


Yep, go ahead and burn money in Seattle getting beat by AS/Oneworld while ignoring a golden opportunity in Texas. Seems like a winning strategy to me.


AA/AS/B6 are about to burn a whole lot of money getting beat by WN in AUS and WN is the one with the money to hold out...
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:21 pm

I just think the motion that this will scare Delta or somehow limit their ability to get contracts is premature. Then again according to airliners every route announcement/strategy AA presents is inherently better than DL. It only the financials/business share would align. This is coming from someone in sales that compete with both of these airlines.

DL has made a promise to AUS just liek they did in Seattle and despite them not being larger than AS they have managed to steal/erode some of AS business travel and arguably some leisure.
 
Josh76040
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu May 28, 2020 11:02 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:31 pm

seatback wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
With these additions by AS and AA is it possible to make connections in AUS now? Hopefully AA/AS keeps adding more routes to AUS. Would love to see a few others added such as SNA/SLC/MCI.

Also I don’t know where DL goes from here. Like many have said, they showed their hand too early. Crazy as it sounds I wonder if DL should look into building DFW into a focus city now, that’s for a different thread though.


This was my thought too. I believe Delta has a lot of FF loyalty still in DFW. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of growth, just to try to stick it to AA (maybe: DFW-RDU/MIA/MCO/LAS/BOS).


Sounds like TWA at ATL 2.0. Should be another epic fail to watch and enjoy.

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