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CarlosSi
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:52 pm

N649DL wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Delta: "Austin is one of our focus cities"
American: "Hold my beer."

Dang that's a big boost all of a sudden. AA clearly values it's Austin site as it's always been a big feeder for DFW and dominant there behind Southwest. Wish I can eventually actually take advantage of these flights...


LOL! It's pretty much true though. AA was running 757s on what, like sub 30 minute flights on DFW-AUS-DFW multiple times daily through most of the 2000s? However what is more surprising is how stubborn AA was to start up AUS-MIA until only relatively recently.


DC10s in the 90s!

Oh I remember that hole being unfilled for such a long time, as well as other routes out of AUS that weren't to hubs (SEA, and SJC which is returning). AA clearly values its loyalty and base in AUS. Although a new Admiral's Club as others have mentioned would be even nicer.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:06 pm

With the NE partnership, could this mean Mint has a chance to come to AUS-JFK or AUS-EWR? (Going the other way, I could see this being where, once the pandemic passes, either JL or AA launches AUS-NRT. Remember, it's not just Austin per se, but also nearby Cedar Park and Round Rock, as some tech companies either relocate to Austin or expand around there. Dell Computer is based in Round Rock. I also have to wonder if AA might attempt AUS-IAH bypassing DFW if AA can win a corporate contract with HP Enterprise...they are moving to just outside of Houston.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:30 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Do this mean AA will move their headquarter and their primary hub from Dallas-Fort Worth to Austin?


I'm thinking the 350 Million Dollar HDQ they just built in Fort Worth means they won't be going anywhere soon.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:10 pm

Why would AA fly aus-iah when it’s barely a two hour drive and neither is a hub for AA?

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With the NE partnership, could this mean Mint has a chance to come to AUS-JFK or AUS-EWR? (Going the other way, I could see this being where, once the pandemic passes, either JL or AA launches AUS-NRT. Remember, it's not just Austin per se, but also nearby Cedar Park and Round Rock, as some tech companies either relocate to Austin or expand around there. Dell Computer is based in Round Rock. I also have to wonder if AA might attempt AUS-IAH bypassing DFW if AA can win a corporate contract with HP Enterprise...they are moving to just outside of Houston.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:14 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
Looks as if AUS is the only airport in Texas that is thriving. Gotta wonder if Austin will eclipse IAH or DFW in the coming decades.


AUS definitely isn't the only airport in Texas that's thriving. Sure, they've got Hawaiian to HNL, several new AA routes, and Alaska to LAX/BOI, but they've lost KLM before it started and British Airways/Lufthansa remain suspended due to the pandemic.

DFW is continuing to grow in terms of destinations. AA's added FAY, EUG, LTO, LAP, UVF, MID, SXM, IDA, LGB, and more. AKL and TLV are set to launch at the end of this year. Sun Country's adding SNA and relaunching PVR. VivaAerobus returned to DFW in late 2020 after leaving six years ago.

As for IAH, they've seen some expansion. United's added EYW, SJT, Sun Country and Southwest added IAH, and Delta joins in on LAX-IAH.
 
CALMSP
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:14 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With the NE partnership, could this mean Mint has a chance to come to AUS-JFK or AUS-EWR? (Going the other way, I could see this being where, once the pandemic passes, either JL or AA launches AUS-NRT. Remember, it's not just Austin per se, but also nearby Cedar Park and Round Rock, as some tech companies either relocate to Austin or expand around there. Dell Computer is based in Round Rock. I also have to wonder if AA might attempt AUS-IAH bypassing DFW if AA can win a corporate contract with HP Enterprise...they are moving to just outside of Houston.


I'd say any AUS-Asia would be 2025 earliest, but certainly a possibility.

As for AUS-IAH, I can't see that happening, winning a "contract" from HP probably wouldn't even generate 5 people a day to fly IAH-AUS. Its only 161 miles from RR to Spring. You'd be on the campus quicker driving than you would flying.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:21 pm

seatback wrote:
Should we expect AA to open a crew base?


They're adding about a dozen daily flights (of which only half are mainline), and I'm sure they can easily be staffed by the DFW bases.
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acavpics
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:34 pm

Going forward, year from now as Austin continues to grow rapidly, can we expect that AUS be the only large major airport in TX that does not serve as a hub for a carrier? (Unlike DFW and IAH)

All this time, I thought that DL would make it a hub, since they are the only one of the US3 to not have a Texas-hub. But this forum leads me to believe otherwise.
 
ozark1
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:45 pm

There are hundreds of flight attendants (and most likely pilots) who live in AUS and commute up to DFW. AA, in the past has had satellite bases: MSP, (ORD base), SAN, (LAX base), SMF (SFO base). ATL and TPA (MIA base), PIT (PHL base). I retired over a year ago so i might be missing some, but I think they had added AUS as one fairly recently. Sequences originate and terminate at the satellite cities. This would be great for crew scheduling flexibility and a great perk for someone who resides there. Does someone know if these satellites still exist, due to Covid? Have a great day.
 
Wacko55
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:48 pm

Ishrion wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
Looks as if AUS is the only airport in Texas that is thriving. Gotta wonder if Austin will eclipse IAH or DFW in the coming decades.


AUS definitely isn't the only airport in Texas that's thriving. Sure, they've got Hawaiian to HNL, several new AA routes, and Alaska to LAX/BOI, but they've lost KLM before it started and British Airways/Lufthansa remain suspended due to the pandemic.

DFW is continuing to grow in terms of destinations. AA's added FAY, EUG, LTO, LAP, UVF, MID, SXM, IDA, LGB, and more. AKL and TLV are set to launch at the end of this year. Sun Country's adding SNA and relaunching PVR. VivaAerobus returned to DFW in late 2020 after leaving six years ago.

As for IAH, they've seen some expansion. United's added EYW, SJT, Sun Country and Southwest added IAH, and Delta joins in on LAX-IAH.


AUS will never be as large as DFW or IAH. It will continue to grow and become a very nice sized airport though. However, if you'd asked me 10 years ago I would have told you Austin would never have a downtown skyscraper over 700ft. Currently there's an 850 footer being built with several in the pipeline. It's gonna be the 5th tallest when complete in Texas. And what will be the tallest skyscraper in Texas is scheduled to break ground in April 22'. It's not being built in Big "D" or Htown but in little old ATX.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... tin,_Texas
 
TWA85
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 pm

If this experiment at AUS is successful, or at least exceeds expectations, I wonder if AA would attempt to replicate it in other markets. BNA seems like a good market for AA to do so.

-It is a former AA hub so it naturally has a large FF base.

-The airport has several unused gates, giving AA ample room for growth.

-It is roughly equal distance between AA's CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs. It's geographic location relative to those hubs makes it easier to cycle aircraft and crew through BNA.

-The Medical/Health industry has a large presence in the Nashville area, which will likely become a larger source of corporate travelers post pandemic.

-The state of Tennessee also has a large automotive manufacturing sector.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:55 pm

TWA85 wrote:
If this experiment at AUS is successful, or at least exceeds expectations, I wonder if AA would attempt to replicate it in other markets. BNA seems like a good market for AA to do so.

-It is a former AA hub so it naturally has a large FF base.

-The airport has several unused gates, giving AA ample room for growth.

-It is roughly equal distance between AA's CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs. It's geographic location relative to those hubs makes it easier to cycle aircraft and crew through BNA.

-The Medical/Health industry has a large presence in the Nashville area, which will likely become a larger source of corporate travelers post pandemic.

-The state of Tennessee also has a large automotive manufacturing sector.


Until the current construction is done, BNA has essentially zero free gates.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:02 pm

TWA85 wrote:
If this experiment at AUS is successful, or at least exceeds expectations, I wonder if AA would attempt to replicate it in other markets. BNA seems like a good market for AA to do so.

-It is a former AA hub so it naturally has a large FF base.

-The airport has several unused gates, giving AA ample room for growth.

-It is roughly equal distance between AA's CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs. It's geographic location relative to those hubs makes it easier to cycle aircraft and crew through BNA.

-The Medical/Health industry has a large presence in the Nashville area, which will likely become a larger source of corporate travelers post pandemic.

-The state of Tennessee also has a large automotive manufacturing sector.


Where on earth did you get that BNA has unused gates? Did you just imagine that? They’re literally going to build a satellite terminal or ground boarding from busses bc there are so few gates...
 
Runway765
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:55 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
TWA85 wrote:
If this experiment at AUS is successful, or at least exceeds expectations, I wonder if AA would attempt to replicate it in other markets. BNA seems like a good market for AA to do so.

-It is a former AA hub so it naturally has a large FF base.

-The airport has several unused gates, giving AA ample room for growth.

-It is roughly equal distance between AA's CLT, DFW, ORD, and PHL hubs. It's geographic location relative to those hubs makes it easier to cycle aircraft and crew through BNA.

-The Medical/Health industry has a large presence in the Nashville area, which will likely become a larger source of corporate travelers post pandemic.

-The state of Tennessee also has a large automotive manufacturing sector.


Until the current construction is done, BNA has essentially zero free gates.


Even after the construction, BNA will have zero free gates. The new Concourse A will have to be built. Plus, I though the plan was for WN to eventually take the rest of Concourse C and the satellite and make BNA their primary SE base?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:56 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I think this talk of DL loyalty in DFW is a myth. DL closed it's DFW hub 17 years ago; those travellers have long retired or moved on to other carriers. DL's route network is not useful for someone based in Texas.


Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


Agreed. Delta's DFW hub wasn't small but not big enough to compete with AA and DFW is not ORD where two airlines can hub like that. I don't see DL making moves in DFW other than adding its best products (A220 etc..) on key business routes to major DL markets where it can compete with a cut above product vs. AA.



The hub was a throwback to the 1980s when a giant new airport was supposed to be a dual hub.

In retrospect given the enormity of growth in Texas, it was probably a mistake to shut it down.

They could’ve been a strong number two. We see that with LCCs all the time. B6 at EWR and WN in ATL come to mind. It can be very profitable if you cherry pick routes and offer competitive service. No reason a network carrier couldnt do this
 
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Polot
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
In retrospect given the enormity of growth in Texas, it was probably a mistake to shut it down.

They could’ve been a strong number two. We see that with LCCs all the time. B6 at EWR and WN in ATL come to mind. It can be very profitable if you cherry pick routes and offer competitive service. No reason a network carrier couldnt do this

It’s easy to say that now, after years of Delta making record profits, having a wide reach thanks to a merger, and being on solid financial footing compared to many of its peers.

Keeping an unprofitable hub is a much more difficult decision when you are smaller, consistently bleeding money, trying to compete against growing LCC competition, and (ultimately unsuccessfully) trying to stave off bankruptcy though. Especially when you have very conservative leadership as DL did at the time.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:

Agreed if DFW has a very loyal flyer base there they would have never shut the hub down. If you are headed east Delta has a very useful network for DFW but otherwise no.


Agreed. Delta's DFW hub wasn't small but not big enough to compete with AA and DFW is not ORD where two airlines can hub like that. I don't see DL making moves in DFW other than adding its best products (A220 etc..) on key business routes to major DL markets where it can compete with a cut above product vs. AA.



The hub was a throwback to the 1980s when a giant new airport was supposed to be a dual hub.

In retrospect given the enormity of growth in Texas, it was probably a mistake to shut it down.

They could’ve been a strong number two. We see that with LCCs all the time. B6 at EWR and WN in ATL come to mind. It can be very profitable if you cherry pick routes and offer competitive service. No reason a network carrier couldnt do this


Some valid points raised for sure. Delta in 2004, when it shuttered DFW as a hub was not the more nimble bell weather it became post bankruptcy, which it entered in 2005. It was then and remains a full service carrier and two full service carriers at an airport, even one as large as DFW, with overlapping networks is challenging. One typically supersedes the other, for a time, though it can shift around, as was the case with ORD. For a time AA led, then it shifted to UA. Delta closed DFW as a hub to invest in growth elsewhere. Yes, an LCC and a full service legacy carrier can co-exist in a number of markets, and as you astutely point put, it is all about specific routes and competitive service.

B6 at EWR is an open question in terms of whether the growth will succeed but EWR was primed for more competition. It was consistently the most expensive airport of the big 3 in the area to fly out of, due to United's footprint there. Operationally, EWR can't sustain all this growth if things go back to 2019 levels and it will again be the congested, delay prone mess it was in the past, even with a new and more efficient terminal opening up. I don't know enough about WN at ATL to comment, but what you say makes sense.
 
alohashirts
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:26 pm

Between AS/AA it’ll be interesting to see how many of these actually stick around. VPS, SJC, TPA, MSY, IAD, ASE, are ones I could see getting pulled the plug on by AA and the BOI-AUS on AS. I guess at the same time we’ll just have to see if AA will be willing to lose money on those routes for the first little while if they’re not turning a profit. Not sure if both AS and AA can do AUS-SJC successfully. I can easily see one of them dropping it and let the other fly it with the codeshare.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:36 pm

Weren’t AS and AA reunited via some level of code sharing? I know they had to drop it with the AS/Virgin merger. Would AA really be competing with Alaska on SJC then?
 
braniff2hav
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:58 pm

AA did AUS -> HOU as an extension of its HOU - NYC flights some time back. I'm sure they have data on local traffic. But times and circumstances change. I doubt that AA is looking at that market to bring home a win .. the car or UA or WN will win that one.

jasoncrh wrote:
Why would AA fly aus-iah when it’s barely a two hour drive and neither is a hub for AA?

aemoreira1981 wrote:
With the NE partnership, could this mean Mint has a chance to come to AUS-JFK or AUS-EWR? (Going the other way, I could see this being where, once the pandemic passes, either JL or AA launches AUS-NRT. Remember, it's not just Austin per se, but also nearby Cedar Park and Round Rock, as some tech companies either relocate to Austin or expand around there. Dell Computer is based in Round Rock. I also have to wonder if AA might attempt AUS-IAH bypassing DFW if AA can win a corporate contract with HP Enterprise...they are moving to just outside of Houston.
 
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:39 am

Just a reminder to keep your comments relevant to the topic. If a post is not relevant to the topic please report it so the mods can review it rather than replying to it and drifting further off topic and resulting in mass deletions
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Ishrion
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:40 am

Ishrion wrote:
Did AUS-SJC get axed?

"Today’s new route announcements complement existing American service between AUS and Boston (BOS); Charlotte (CLT); Chicago O’Hare (ORD); Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW); Los Angeles (LAX); Miami (MIA); New York (JFK); Philadelphia (PHL); and Phoenix (PHX)."


I think I got my answer. AA's AUS-SJC is no longer available.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:00 am

I tend to be pessimistic when it comes to AA but they certainly CAN make AUS work for them as a focus city but they will have to make some changes beyond adding points on a map. AA has got to become more customer focused. AUS is a growing market and there is opportunity there. Of all the legacies, AA has the biggest frequent flier base in AUS. They also (based on the latest stats) have a problem when it comes to operational reliability. This may not be as much of a factor for captive flyers that use AA because that’s who their employer’s contract is with. However, this will be a major factor with leisure flyers as WN has that covered VERY well out of AUS as the “hometown favorite” (or maybe I should say “home state favorite” that has a reputation for reliability and taking care of passengers. If AA doesn’t step up their game those folks will use AA for a getaway to MSY or Florida once or twice, then go back to WN.

As for Washington, D.C., that will do fine as long as AA has the Oracle contract. For other fliers however, WN has service into DCA, the preferred airport for travel to the district. UA has an advantage as far as travelers coming from Northern Virginia and their FF base in AUS is nothing to sneeze at. Their IAH hub (and to a lesser extend DEN) allows them to serve AUS well. WN also has one of it’s largest focus cities at BWI and has multiple frequencies on that route as well as FFs on both ends. Again, the Oracle contract may be enough to sustain this flight on it’s own, but without that it wouldn’t be a slam dunk. That being said, If AA could get a slot waiver to serve AUS-DCA, then it becomes a route to a hub and that’s a whole different ballgame.

AA has a problem in the reliability and customer service departments. They can’t just stick planes on routes, especially when there’s competition from another carrier that has a very loyal following. They have to make the customer want to fly AA. I agree that AUS is much more fragmented than an airport like BNA, but that doesn’t change the fact that WN sees AUS as an important market and will likely defend it. There’s also another legacy with hub nearby that, though it’s not as big as AAs DFW hub, serves the market quite well and has a decent FF base in AUS.

I have many friends that are very well heeled (much more so than me) that think I’m the crazy one for for being loyal to a legacy because they like the WN way and value that over upgrades and lounges. That’s not EVERYONE, but it is a good number of people in the state of Texas outside of the DFW and IAH catchment areas. AA will need to siphon some of that traffic away if they want this to work.

I’m not saying that AA “can’t” I am saying that they will have their work cut out for them.
 
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Boiler905
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:26 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
I tend to be pessimistic when it comes to AA but they certainly CAN make AUS work for them as a focus city but they will have to make some changes beyond adding points on a map. AA has got to become more customer focused. AUS is a growing market and there is opportunity there. Of all the legacies, AA has the biggest frequent flier base in AUS. They also (based on the latest stats) have a problem when it comes to operational reliability. This may not be as much of a factor for captive flyers that use AA because that’s who their employer’s contract is with. However, this will be a major factor with leisure flyers as WN has that covered VERY well out of AUS as the “hometown favorite” (or maybe I should say “home state favorite” that has a reputation for reliability and taking care of passengers. If AA doesn’t step up their game those folks will use AA for a getaway to MSY or Florida once or twice, then go back to WN.

As for Washington, D.C., that will do fine as long as AA has the Oracle contract. For other fliers however, WN has service into DCA, the preferred airport for travel to the district. UA has an advantage as far as travelers coming from Northern Virginia and their FF base in AUS is nothing to sneeze at. Their IAH hub (and to a lesser extend DEN) allows them to serve AUS well. WN also has one of it’s largest focus cities at BWI and has multiple frequencies on that route as well as FFs on both ends. Again, the Oracle contract may be enough to sustain this flight on it’s own, but without that it wouldn’t be a slam dunk. That being said, If AA could get a slot waiver to serve AUS-DCA, then it becomes a route to a hub and that’s a whole different ballgame.

AA has a problem in the reliability and customer service departments. They can’t just stick planes on routes, especially when there’s competition from another carrier that has a very loyal following. They have to make the customer want to fly AA. I agree that AUS is much more fragmented than an airport like BNA, but that doesn’t change the fact that WN sees AUS as an important market and will likely defend it. There’s also another legacy with hub nearby that, though it’s not as big as AAs DFW hub, serves the market quite well and has a decent FF base in AUS.

I have many friends that are very well heeled (much more so than me) that think I’m the crazy one for for being loyal to a legacy because they like the WN way and value that over upgrades and lounges. That’s not EVERYONE, but it is a good number of people in the state of Texas outside of the DFW and IAH catchment areas. AA will need to siphon some of that traffic away if they want this to work.

I’m not saying that AA “can’t” I am saying that they will have their work cut out for them.


I completely agree with you. I also don't think AA has the cost structure to make these routes work long-term. Even if some of the routes are successful, can AA serve random non-hub spokes efficiently? When push comes to shove from AA's creditors, these non-hub operations don't stand a chance of surviving. Focus cities are always the first to go in difficult times (which AA has been knocking on the door of for some time given their NEGATIVE SHARE HOLDER EQUITY)

I applaud the ambition and not sitting on their hands (DL, cough cough) but AA is biting off more than they will be able to chew in AUS.

Furthermore, WN will surely respond in some of these O&Ds.
Boiler Up
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:32 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Agreed. Delta's DFW hub wasn't small but not big enough to compete with AA and DFW is not ORD where two airlines can hub like that. I don't see DL making moves in DFW other than adding its best products (A220 etc..) on key business routes to major DL markets where it can compete with a cut above product vs. AA.



The hub was a throwback to the 1980s when a giant new airport was supposed to be a dual hub.

In retrospect given the enormity of growth in Texas, it was probably a mistake to shut it down.

They could’ve been a strong number two. We see that with LCCs all the time. B6 at EWR and WN in ATL come to mind. It can be very profitable if you cherry pick routes and offer competitive service. No reason a network carrier couldnt do this


Some valid points raised for sure. Delta in 2004, when it shuttered DFW as a hub was not the more nimble bell weather it became post bankruptcy, which it entered in 2005. It was then and remains a full service carrier and two full service carriers at an airport, even one as large as DFW, with overlapping networks is challenging. One typically supersedes the other, for a time, though it can shift around, as was the case with ORD. For a time AA led, then it shifted to UA. Delta closed DFW as a hub to invest in growth elsewhere. Yes, an LCC and a full service legacy carrier can co-exist in a number of markets, and as you astutely point put, it is all about specific routes and competitive service.

B6 at EWR is an open question in terms of whether the growth will succeed but EWR was primed for more competition. It was consistently the most expensive airport of the big 3 in the area to fly out of, due to United's footprint there. Operationally, EWR can't sustain all this growth if things go back to 2019 levels and it will again be the congested, delay prone mess it was in the past, even with a new and more efficient terminal opening up. I don't know enough about WN at ATL to comment, but what you say makes sense.


DL did not close DFW "to invest in growth elsewhere". Press reports at the time of the hub closure said DL's DFW hub had lost money in 17 of the previous 18 years. Even a more nimble management, and Texas' growing economy, would not have been enough to save a hub that had been a drain on cash for most of the time since DL aggressively built it up in the mid 1980s.

DL's big mistake was not growing DFW more aggressively in 1979 / 80. Had Delta invested more resources in DFW immediately after deregulation, they could have precluded AA's big buildup at DFW in 1981, and been positioned to be DFW's dominant airline after Braniff's shutdown in 1982. DL's failure to do this is one of the worst mistakes they've ever made.
 
TyroneShoes
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:51 pm

If this conflict does continue the only real winner is Southwest.
 
reggiet
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:23 pm

Runway765 wrote:
seatback wrote:
Long term, I hope AUS has a master plan that includes tripling its gate capacity. I don't think AA can manage this growth with 5 gates. BTW, what's the average daily departures from AUS?


There is a plan to build a 32 gate satellite concourse and a new consolidated head terminal at AUS, but it has been delayed due to the pandemic. They really need to get going on it though. AUS badly needs more gates.




This :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Reggie in Austin
 
alohashirts
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:29 pm

reggiet wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
seatback wrote:
Long term, I hope AUS has a master plan that includes tripling its gate capacity. I don't think AA can manage this growth with 5 gates. BTW, what's the average daily departures from AUS?


There is a plan to build a 32 gate satellite concourse and a new consolidated head terminal at AUS, but it has been delayed due to the pandemic. They really need to get going on it though. AUS badly needs more gates.




This :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Agree. Using the pandemic as an excuse isn’t going to work or fly anymore. Especially with airports such as AUS. Getting old with airports such as AUS using that excuse for delaying or canceling expansion projects.
 
avi8
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:57 am

I know focus cities are not meant to be connection-oriented, but could someone do TPA-AUS-LAS?
avi8
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:38 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


The hub was a throwback to the 1980s when a giant new airport was supposed to be a dual hub.

In retrospect given the enormity of growth in Texas, it was probably a mistake to shut it down.

They could’ve been a strong number two. We see that with LCCs all the time. B6 at EWR and WN in ATL come to mind. It can be very profitable if you cherry pick routes and offer competitive service. No reason a network carrier couldnt do this


Some valid points raised for sure. Delta in 2004, when it shuttered DFW as a hub was not the more nimble bell weather it became post bankruptcy, which it entered in 2005. It was then and remains a full service carrier and two full service carriers at an airport, even one as large as DFW, with overlapping networks is challenging. One typically supersedes the other, for a time, though it can shift around, as was the case with ORD. For a time AA led, then it shifted to UA. Delta closed DFW as a hub to invest in growth elsewhere. Yes, an LCC and a full service legacy carrier can co-exist in a number of markets, and as you astutely point put, it is all about specific routes and competitive service.

B6 at EWR is an open question in terms of whether the growth will succeed but EWR was primed for more competition. It was consistently the most expensive airport of the big 3 in the area to fly out of, due to United's footprint there. Operationally, EWR can't sustain all this growth if things go back to 2019 levels and it will again be the congested, delay prone mess it was in the past, even with a new and more efficient terminal opening up. I don't know enough about WN at ATL to comment, but what you say makes sense.


DL did not close DFW "to invest in growth elsewhere". Press reports at the time of the hub closure said DL's DFW hub had lost money in 17 of the previous 18 years. Even a more nimble management, and Texas' growing economy, would not have been enough to save a hub that had been a drain on cash for most of the time since DL aggressively built it up in the mid 1980s.

DL's big mistake was not growing DFW more aggressively in 1979 / 80. Had Delta invested more resources in DFW immediately after deregulation, they could have precluded AA's big buildup at DFW in 1981, and been positioned to be DFW's dominant airline after Braniff's shutdown in 1982. DL's failure to do this is one of the worst mistakes they've ever made.


Some valid points, but not sure they all make sense. In 1979, the industry was being deregulated and looked very different into the 1980s. American had by 1981 elected to relocate its HQ and major operations to DFW from NY. Delta had a formidable presence in DFW through deregulation and into the 2000s when it de-hubbed it. If the hub aas a drain on cash since the buildup, it stands to reason why they de hubbed and in 2004 when the decision was made, DL's financials were not good and opportunities to redeploy assets were on the horizon and it recognized SLC and the NY market as far more opportuninistic than DFW.
 
Western727
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:36 pm

alohashirts wrote:
reggiet wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

There is a plan to build a 32 gate satellite concourse and a new consolidated head terminal at AUS, but it has been delayed due to the pandemic. They really need to get going on it though. AUS badly needs more gates.




This :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Agree. Using the pandemic as an excuse isn’t going to work or fly anymore. Especially with airports such as AUS. Getting old with airports such as AUS using that excuse for delaying or canceling expansion projects.


I agree as well. Look at LGA and LAX which have used the pandemic wisely, boosting the pace of construction enough to shave several months off projected completion dates at both airports. That AUS hasn't been doing the same is something that continues to confound me.

Do any of you know why AUS has been denying this rather obvious logic fail?
Jack @ AUS
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3571
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:41 pm

avi8 wrote:
I know focus cities are not meant to be connection-oriented, but could someone do TPA-AUS-LAS?


Not sure about TPA-AUS-LAS, but AA is offering LAS-TPA via AUS on some days.
 
B752OS
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:25 pm

Western727 wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
reggiet wrote:



This :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Agree. Using the pandemic as an excuse isn’t going to work or fly anymore. Especially with airports such as AUS. Getting old with airports such as AUS using that excuse for delaying or canceling expansion projects.


I agree as well. Look at LGA and LAX which have used the pandemic wisely, boosting the pace of construction enough to shave several months off projected completion dates at both airports. That AUS hasn't been doing the same is something that continues to confound me.

Do any of you know why AUS has been denying this rather obvious logic fail?


There could be a number of reasons. Being able to source building materials chief among them. The projects at LAX and LGA have been under constructions for multiple years now, so it's not fair to compare those with what AUS has proposed.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:59 pm

I don’t know about LAX but LaGuardia was past the point of no return. It had to keep going.
 
WN732
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:33 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I don’t know about LAX but LaGuardia was past the point of no return. It had to keep going.


LAX as well. They were already demolishing Terminal 3 when the pandemic started. Then the People Mover project had also broken ground.
 
dfwagt
Posts: 75
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:09 pm

FSDan wrote:
seatback wrote:
Should we expect AA to open a crew base?


They're adding about a dozen daily flights (of which only half are mainline), and I'm sure they can easily be staffed by the DFW bases.



They have actually opened up AUS as a “satellite” base for DFW. There are quite a few AA F/A and pilots that live down in that area.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:16 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
They also (based on the latest stats) have a problem when it comes to operational reliability.

That's what happens when you have a mega-hub at and airport that goes into full panic mode whenever there's a lightning bolt within 500 miles of it!
And springtime in DFW is about to begin...
 
Runway765
Posts: 315
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:27 pm

B752OS wrote:
Western727 wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
Agree. Using the pandemic as an excuse isn’t going to work or fly anymore. Especially with airports such as AUS. Getting old with airports such as AUS using that excuse for delaying or canceling expansion projects.


I agree as well. Look at LGA and LAX which have used the pandemic wisely, boosting the pace of construction enough to shave several months off projected completion dates at both airports. That AUS hasn't been doing the same is something that continues to confound me.

Do any of you know why AUS has been denying this rather obvious logic fail?


There could be a number of reasons. Being able to source building materials chief among them. The projects at LAX and LGA have been under constructions for multiple years now, so it's not fair to compare those with what AUS has proposed.


AUS hadn't even started construction yet. But 33 gates or so is not enough for AUS so they should have at least kept design going so they can break ground as soon as funding becomes available.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:39 pm

They’ll probably do the second terminal in phases, but why not build the whole thing and then just not attach the jetways to parts of the gates that don’t need them yet? Heck do air stairs as overfill. They could have the space available as retail or restaurants or something still. Thought it was a hassle to have to carve out of the original terminal.

Kind of how with interchange connector ramps they leave a gap in the bridge where a future ramp can be added later.
 
CALMSP
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:52 pm

the problem is now that they've delayed, a few years down the road the cost is going to be even more. I get why project get delayed in some down times, but when that happens and its revisited, the costs are just through the roof sometimes on the new build.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:30 pm

dfwagt wrote:
FSDan wrote:
seatback wrote:
Should we expect AA to open a crew base?


They're adding about a dozen daily flights (of which only half are mainline), and I'm sure they can easily be staffed by the DFW bases.



They have actually opened up AUS as a “satellite” base for DFW. There are quite a few AA F/A and pilots that live down in that area.


Is that new with this AUS expansion, or did the satellite base already exist anyway?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
dfwagt
Posts: 75
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:06 am

FSDan wrote:
dfwagt wrote:
FSDan wrote:

They're adding about a dozen daily flights (of which only half are mainline), and I'm sure they can easily be staffed by the DFW bases.



They have actually opened up AUS as a “satellite” base for DFW. There are quite a few AA F/A and pilots that live down in that area.


Is that new with this AUS expansion, or did the satellite base already exist anyway?


It’s new. As far as I can recall there hasn’t been a satellite base anywhere here in TX.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:17 am

jfklganyc wrote:
I don’t know about LAX but LaGuardia was past the point of no return. It had to keep going.

The Delta part of LAX and TBIT projects had to keep going.

I guess in theory the remodel of T4/5 for American could be stopped but it'd be pointless to do so.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:12 am

deltal1011man wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I don’t know about LAX but LaGuardia was past the point of no return. It had to keep going.

The Delta part of LAX and TBIT projects had to keep going.

I guess in theory the remodel of T4/5 for American could be stopped but it'd be pointless to do so.



American made that mistake at JFK many years ago. Probably dont want to repeat it.
 
AMALH747430
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:54 pm

CALMSP wrote:
the problem is now that they've delayed, a few years down the road the cost is going to be even more. I get why project get delayed in some down times, but when that happens and its revisited, the costs are just through the roof sometimes on the new build.


This is a problem with Austin as a whole. Their infrastructure is totally inadequate for the amount of people moving in.

I had to go to a meeting in Austin back in November of 2019 and then on to Las Vegas. I flew out mid afternoon AUS-LAX-LAS. The Jordan terminal was bursting at the seams! The check-in area, security, concourse, and United Club were all extremely crowded. The agent that checked me in advised me to forego precheck and use the west checkpoint since the main one was so backed up. LAX seemed “peaceful” by comparison when I arrived. It was mode crowded than departing EWR during the morning rush!

I know AA has the second highest number of gates (behind WN) in AUS. I’m not sure what their utilization looked like pre COVID-19. It is possible they’ll cut a couple of AUS-DFW flights to allow for these new flights?
 
Runway765
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:53 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
DL's big mistake was not growing DFW more aggressively in 1979 / 80. Had Delta invested more resources in DFW immediately after deregulation, they could have precluded AA's big buildup at DFW in 1981, and been positioned to be DFW's dominant airline after Braniff's shutdown in 1982. DL's failure to do this is one of the worst mistakes they've ever made.


This begs the question, if DL had built up DFW alongside ATL in the immediate post deregulation era, would ATL still have become a 1,000 flight hub, or would the traffic have been more evenly distributed across ATL/DFW? And would the NW merger still happen in this scenario, as there really wouldn’t be a need for DTW/MSP if DL had a large DFW hub?

AMALH747430 wrote:
This is a problem with Austin as a whole. Their infrastructure is totally inadequate for the amount of people moving in.

I had to go to a meeting in Austin back in November of 2019 and then on to Las Vegas. I flew out mid afternoon AUS-LAX-LAS. The Jordan terminal was bursting at the seams! The check-in area, security, concourse, and United Club were all extremely crowded. The agent that checked me in advised me to forego precheck and use the west checkpoint since the main one was so backed up. LAX seemed “peaceful” by comparison when I arrived. It was mode crowded than departing EWR during the morning rush!

I know AA has the second highest number of gates (behind WN) in AUS. I’m not sure what their utilization looked like pre COVID-19. It is possible they’ll cut a couple of AUS-DFW flights to allow for these new flights?


This is precisely why it’s stupid for them to pause the expansion. This is going to come back as soon as travel returns. They should be doing prep work now so they can go full speed at construction as soon as revenues rise again.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:59 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I don’t know about LAX but LaGuardia was past the point of no return. It had to keep going.

The Delta part of LAX and TBIT projects had to keep going.

I guess in theory the remodel of T4/5 for American could be stopped but it'd be pointless to do so.



American made that mistake at JFK many years ago. Probably dont want to repeat it.


In terms of a remodel at JFK? AA proceeded with a brand new terminal which opened in phases. T8 which replaced the old combined American and United terminals was not however built out to spec. It was to have had a third mid-field complex but they proceeded with it. The old AA terminal complex at JFK was, other than the beautiful stained glass facade, a total mess.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:52 pm

Hopefully any expansion at AUS will be completed before the project on nearby highway 183. What are they using to dig, a teaspoon?
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3150
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Re: AA large AUS expansion

Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:57 am

DFW17L wrote:
Hopefully any expansion at AUS will be completed before the project on nearby highway 183. What are they using to dig, a teaspoon?


You think? I was really impressed with not only how quickly they got the toll road substantially completed, but did it in a smart, intuitive way that minimized impacts to traffic on 183. They managed to get rid of the lights rather quickly, especially north of the river.

I think it's a little behind schedule, but compared to some projects it's moved pretty quickly, I thought. Should be open in the next month or two. As someone who regularly needs to go 71 westbound to 183 southbound, I'm really ready for it to finish up!
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3571
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA large AUS expansion

Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Southwest Airlines joins in by adding Austin to Destin/Fort Walton twice a week beginning June 6: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 56155.html

They're also adding AUS-MIA.

And for Delta, they're adding AUS-MSP/SLC.

"During the last decade, Southwest has served the most nonstop destinations from Austin each year based on DOT published schedules. In March 2021, more than 70% of our Austin Customers got where they're going with a nonstop journey on Southwest Airlines. With our new service scheduled to begin in June 2021, our number of destinations available nonstop from Austin is more than double the offering of any other carrier," Watterson added. "While other carriers have fallen in and out of love with Austin across the years, we're continuing to build on nearly 45 years of offering affordable and relevant air service for Central Texans and those who are headed there."

I suppose this is retaliation against the AA AUS expansion and Delta committing to Austin as a Focus City, especially with that quote of "our number of destinations available nonstop from Austin is more than double the offering of any other carrier". Just waiting on Delta's response, if they choose to do so.

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