Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
nicode
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:40 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If I want to get to New York as cheap as possible the cheapest for me would be to fly Transavia Amsterdam - Paris Orly first thing in the morning, then self-transfer at Orly to FrenchBee taking me to New York (Newark). Return I could one again fly FrenchBee from Newark to Paris Orly, arriving there late afternoon. In the evening Transavia has another flight Paris Orly - Amsterdam. If FrenchBee can do it, why can't another airline?

It won't work as Transavia (Holland) flies AMS-ORY-AMS only in the evening.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4683
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:00 am

nicode wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
If I want to get to New York as cheap as possible the cheapest for me would be to fly Transavia Amsterdam - Paris Orly first thing in the morning, then self-transfer at Orly to FrenchBee taking me to New York (Newark). Return I could one again fly FrenchBee from Newark to Paris Orly, arriving there late afternoon. In the evening Transavia has another flight Paris Orly - Amsterdam. If FrenchBee can do it, why can't another airline?

It won't work as Transavia (Holland) flies AMS-ORY-AMS only in the evening.


Not anymore, starting the winter season they also got a morning flight on some days. It's not daily but there are days on which both Transavia and FrenchBee fly so that offers opportunities.

By the way, these flights are performed by Transavia France if I'm not mistaken so technically it's ORY-AMS-ORY. Not that it makes much of a difference.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10869
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:14 am

For someone in central or eastern Europe having the Europe end of a TATL might make some sense. However, for someone in western Europe much less so.

First you fly east, then then you sit around, then you have a longer flight west again. This is going to add a lot of hassle and delays overall. If you are going to save £100 maybe, if you are going to save £10, it would be crazy.

Can they cut their costs low enough to make the tickets that much cheaper?.

https://www.expedia.co.uk/Flights-Searc ... 20Airports)%2Cdeparture%3A6%2F6%2F2022TANYT&options=cabinclass%3Aeconomy&leg2=from%3ANew%20York%20(NYC%20-%20All%20Airports)%2Cto%3ALondon%2Cdeparture%3A13%2F6%2F2022TANYT&passengers=children%3A0%2Cadults%3A1%2Cseniors%3A0%2Cinfantinlap%3AY&fromDate=6%2F6%2F2022&toDate=13%2F6%2F2022&d1=2022-06-06&d2=2022-06-13

45 options under £400, including JetBlue at £322, of these 22 are direct taking 7 hrs 45 to 8 hrs 22.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1528
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:25 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
airlinenavigato wrote:
For getting feeder flights, Flypop simply flies from Stansted. In STN they get feeded from over 100 Ryanair routes for self-transfer.

How about these flying times for Norse Atlantic?:

- 02:00 departure STN
so they get almost all the Ryanair feeder flights that arrive during the day before.
- 05:00 arrival New York
There it's possible to connect to almost all other flights of the day.

- 07:00 departure New York
- 20:00 arrival STN

and on another scheduled day they fly
- 14:00 departure New York
- 03:00 arrival STN
to get all connecting flights of Ryanair


The idea of STN 0200 NYC 0500 or arriving from NYC into STN at 0300 does not sound like anything many passengers will even consider... particularly if there were Ryanair self-connections involved as well.


If this night time curfew at STN is still in place, that will sink this cunning plan: -

https://www.uas.aero/7907-2/

0200 departure STN-JFK is not for me either and I doubt it could be sold cheap enough compared to daytime flights to make it competitive or worthwhile for anyone except those that have to be in NYC at the crack of dawn and can't arrive the day before, and those sort of passengers would have once flown on Concorde!
 
ben7x
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:13 pm

airlinenavigato wrote:
For getting feeder flights, Flypop simply flies from Stansted. In STN they get feeded from over 100 Ryanair routes for self-transfer.

How about these flying times for Norse Atlantic?:

- 02:00 departure STN
so they get almost all the Ryanair feeder flights that arrive during the day before.
- 05:00 arrival New York
There it's possible to connect to almost all other flights of the day.

- 07:00 departure New York
- 20:00 arrival STN

and on another scheduled day they fly
- 14:00 departure New York
- 03:00 arrival STN
to get all connecting flights of Ryanair

- 09:00 departure STN
- 12:00 arrival New York


Maybe not Ryanair, but what about Worldwide by EasyJet? Didn’t they even partner with Norwegian? They could easily feed the operations in LGW, BER, CDG, …
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5013
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:06 pm

What sort of margins would easyJet be making on feeding another low cost carrier? Especially one as tainted as Norwegian, which is clearly what Norse is a Trojan Horse for! To make it worth their while, a sizeable % of the base fare would need to go to EZY, making this a non-starter for any proper LOCO long haul, there's no way to drive the price down far enough against the legacy long haul airlines and still pay for feed.
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 817
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:52 pm

Someone83 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
I’m not sure where STN and “FR self connects” come from as a business model.
Norwegian operated from Gatwick and offered protected connections with easyJet through the Worldwide by easyJet product. If that didn’t work, why would STN, with far lower O&D passengers work?


From what I heard, the easyJet/Worldwide solution at LGW gave Norwegian an OK or decent amount of transfer passenger. Norse has also said they intend to have feeder agreements "where needed"

And I'm pretty sure they business plan does not evolve around self transfer from Ryanair at STN, in the middle of the night


I was one of those. Did that twice flying DY TATL to LGW. First time I self-connected to EI to DUB. Second time, U2 to LIS and back from SCQ.
 
airlinenavigato
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:56 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:05 pm

ok i adjust the flying times. Still room for FR self-hubbing flights. Flight searches like Google, Skyscanner and kiwi.com will show them as cheapest and people are likely gonna book them. Also for one-way journeys.

- 19:00 departure STN to get a lot of feeder flights of the day
- 22:00 arrival New York
- 23:55 departure New York to have the full day in NY
- 13:00 arrival STN

and on another scheduled day
- 17:00 departure New York
- 06:00 arrival STN to get many connecting flights and also more suitable for people with the final destination London
- 12:00 departure STN, so leisure travellers from London don't have to stand up too early in the morning
- 15:00 arrival New York
Last edited by airlinenavigato on Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dreambaby
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:53 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:06 pm

airlinenavigato wrote:
For getting feeder flights, Flypop simply flies from Stansted. In STN they get feeded from over 100 Ryanair routes for self-transfer.

How about these flying times for Norse Atlantic?:

- 02:00 departure STN
so they get almost all the Ryanair feeder flights that arrive during the day before.
- 05:00 arrival New York
There it's possible to connect to almost all other flights of the day.

- 07:00 departure New York
- 20:00 arrival STN

and on another scheduled day they fly
- 14:00 departure New York
- 03:00 arrival STN
to get all connecting flights of Ryanair

- 09:00 departure STN
- 12:00 arrival New York





It’s not possible to arrive internationally into jfk before 9 am as the airport is not open for international arrivals till 9. The 0535 Norwegian departure from the U.K. regularly arrived in jfk an hour or so early and had to remote hold until the borders opened at 9! Was a big problem for them . They had the earliest arrival into jfk from Europe
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:25 pm

I quite like the name Norse Atlantic. I hope that the in-flight menu includes Spam.
 
Dreambaby
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:53 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:35 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I quite like the name Norse Atlantic. I hope that the in-flight menu includes Spam.


You ve lost me on that one !
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:20 pm

Dreambaby wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
I quite like the name Norse Atlantic. I hope that the in-flight menu includes Spam.


You ve lost me on that one !


google Monty Python Spam. and the link will be apparent.
 
User avatar
spinkid
Posts: 1933
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:45 am

tobsw wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:

That sounds like a reasonable argument, but they need to pay the lease/loan costs on aircraft, equipment, training, ground facilities, catering assets, etc. Aviation is a very capital intensive industry. If your profitability is not enough to cover the costs associated with your production then you are not a viable business in the long term.


The main issue was their debt. That was the main issue. They didn't grow organically, but exponentially taking a huge debt with them. Their growth was not sustainable.

But otherwise, purely looking at their operations profit/loss, they wrote a profit. And that includes all the costs you provided: from marketing, to training, to maintenance, to fuel, to lease/depreciation/amortisation... all costs related to the core purpose of transporting people on a plane.

Here you can check out their 2019 annual report.
https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/ip/documents/about-us/company/investor-relations/reports-and-presentations/annual-reports/annual-report-norwegian-2019.pdf

And here, a snapshot of their financial results (2019)

Image





I agree, There were Norwegian haters for years on here (and yes, there was some good reason) however they were on to something. Certain markets were quite successful and they were building great brand recognition. I say that in the sense that I heard my non aviation friends discussing them. They got jammed up with the Rolls Royce Engines, expanding too fast and taking on heavy debt, the MAX grounding and of course the Pandemic putting the nail in the coffin.

These guys would know best what routes they left behind that were making money. They had SWF-DUB up to Double daily when they had to suspend it due to the MAX grounding. They could certainly fill a 787 daily or 4-5 weekly if they wanted to. If they can find a niche (like the BER-JFK or BER-SWF) and make it work once a week the market is there. The collapse of WOW also leaves a market for Iceland as well. I'm wishing them luck and hope they come back to JFK and would really like to see them back at SWF.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:08 am

skipness1E wrote:
What sort of margins would easyJet be making on feeding another low cost carrier? Especially one as tainted as Norwegian, which is clearly what Norse is a Trojan Horse for! To make it worth their while, a sizeable % of the base fare would need to go to EZY, making this a non-starter for any proper LOCO long haul, there's no way to drive the price down far enough against the legacy long haul airlines and still pay for feed.


If I understand the easyJet connection at LGW correctly, but please correct me if I'm wrong: The tickets including the feed is just priced by adding the two separate airfares together. So it isn't really any proportional splitting of any base fare for going from A to B, just adding A to C and C to B together. This easyJet's margin will be the same whether it is an O/D passenger or connecting? It is all about increasing volumes
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:13 am

tobsw wrote:
But otherwise, purely looking at their operations profit/loss, they wrote a profit. And that includes all the costs you provided: from marketing, to training, to maintenance, to fuel, to lease/depreciation/amortisation... all costs related to the core purpose of transporting people on a plane.


While true, the numbers from Norwegian would have been more useful if we had got a breakdown per segment. And not just for the whole group. I've seen analyses suggesting that they alone on their domestic Norwegian operations made at least $200 million per year
 
veeseeten
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:50 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:24 am

Someone83 wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
I’m not sure where STN and “FR self connects” come from as a business model.
Norwegian operated from Gatwick and offered protected connections with easyJet through the Worldwide by easyJet product. If that didn’t work, why would STN, with far lower O&D passengers work?


From what I heard, the easyJet/Worldwide solution at LGW gave Norwegian an OK or decent amount of transfer passenger. Norse has also said they intend to have feeder agreements "where needed"

And I'm pretty sure they business plan does not evolve around self transfer from Ryanair at STN, in the middle of the night


At peak, EZY transfers were filling the equivalent of 2-3 NAS 787’s per day, in both cabins - and that was just at LGW (they connected at other airports also - ORY, BCN, AMS, etc) - so pretty decent!

Someone83 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
What sort of margins would easyJet be making on feeding another low cost carrier? Especially one as tainted as Norwegian, which is clearly what Norse is a Trojan Horse for! To make it worth their while, a sizeable % of the base fare would need to go to EZY, making this a non-starter for any proper LOCO long haul, there's no way to drive the price down far enough against the legacy long haul airlines and still pay for feed.


If I understand the easyJet connection at LGW correctly, but please correct me if I'm wrong: The tickets including the feed is just priced by adding the two separate airfares together. So it isn't really any proportional splitting of any base fare for going from A to B, just adding A to C and C to B together. This easyJet's margin will be the same whether it is an O/D passenger or connecting? It is all about increasing volumes


This is correct.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1963
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:19 pm

Dreambaby wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
I quite like the name Norse Atlantic. I hope that the in-flight menu includes Spam.


You ve lost me on that one !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bW4vEo1F4E&t=18s

I think this video actually previews the inflight menu. If I fly Norse Atlantic, I'm going to order SPAM SPAM SPAM egg, bacon, sausage and SPAM.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:41 pm

787-9 LN598 - ex LN-LNO/G-CJUL


This one is reported being at SNN for paint into Norse's livery
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3548
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:07 pm

Someone83 wrote:
787-9 LN598 - ex LN-LNO/G-CJUL


This one is reported being at SNN for paint into Norse's livery


they are due to announce the logo on the 10th. Possible coincidence?
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:59 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
787-9 LN598 - ex LN-LNO/G-CJUL


This one is reported being at SNN for paint into Norse's livery


they are due to announce the logo on the 10th. Possible coincidence?


No ;)

Expect roll out at SNN the same day
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:47 am

The brand and livery revelation is at 12.00 CET today
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9882
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:59 am

Looks awesome! Suits the 787 well.
 
User avatar
Scoreboard
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:06 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:29 am

Interesting to see the image even has an aircraft name "Raet". Wonder if the others will be named on a geography theme?
 
User avatar
Scoreboard
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:06 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:29 am

Interesting to see the image even has an aircraft name "Raet". Wonder if the others will be named on a geography theme?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 12188
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:32 am

The logo is nice. The rest is nothing to write home about but inoffensive.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:37 am

Scoreboard wrote:
Interesting to see the image even has an aircraft name "Raet". Wonder if the others will be named on a geography theme?


Yes, the aircraft will be named after national parks, in various countries. Raet National Park is a maritime national park outside Arendal in southern Norway. Which happens to be where the founder and chairman Bjørn Tore Larsen is born. And where the company has its HQ
 
Oykie
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:58 pm

The livery is very nice! I actually like it with the Oseberg ship on its tail. There was some picture of it earlier, but they disappeared. It’s possible to see the livery here: https://flynorse.com/media-library
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:08 pm

Today’s presentation can be found here

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... 0+2021.pdf
 
shadez
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:33 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:21 pm

spinkid wrote:
tobsw wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
These guys would know best what routes they left behind that were making money.


With this in mind, I'm a bit surprised they plan to serve FLL, given that Norwegian was progressively shifting its focus to MIA.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:30 pm

shadez wrote:
With this in mind, I'm a bit surprised they plan to serve FLL, given that Norwegian was progressively shifting its focus to MIA.


It is not finally decided between the airport.

But they do have an office in Fort Lauderdale, and their founder and CEO lives there ;)
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5013
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:44 pm

So 15 ex Norwegian B787s flying on former Norwegian routes run by ex Norwegian people in a market well down on pre COVID, with no feed focussing only on point to point.
If I had seen my shareholder value repeatedly burned by this, I'd be 200% deffo certain that it would surely work next time.........
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:03 pm

skipness1E wrote:
So 15 ex Norwegian B787s flying on former Norwegian routes run by ex Norwegian people in a market well down on pre COVID, with no feed focussing only on point to point.
If I had seen my shareholder value repeatedly burned by this, I'd be 200% deffo certain that it would surely work next time.........



I totally understand the skepticism, although Norwegian admitted many of the faults in their last operation. Too heavy of a winter schedule when demand was diminished, trying to do too much at once (too many long haul bases) and overall growing too fast.

A focus in LGW, CDG and OSL seems smart. Those three, especially LGW seemed to be the most successful long haul bases for Norwegian.
 
panam330
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:37 pm

I’m getting serious WestJet vibes from the livery - color choices, billboard titles, etc. Looks nice, though I’m skeptical of the timing - but hey, it’s not my money.
 
TFFIP
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:03 pm

I did think of West Jet as well but more because I believe Norse needs a good lie flat business product. Just as West Jet do.
Value for money economy and reasonably priced product to attract a business market and have a piece of solid revenue.
Without that, they have Jet Blue now from London to think about, Mint is an excellent product, I have used it from LA to JFK.
Filling those 50000 seats (I think I read their fleet will offer, on paddleyourowncanoe) on all cheap Y/Y+ just doesn't fill with confidence.
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3548
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:56 pm

Someone83 wrote:
shadez wrote:
With this in mind, I'm a bit surprised they plan to serve FLL, given that Norwegian was progressively shifting its focus to MIA.


It is not finally decided between the airport.

But they do have an office in Fort Lauderdale, and their founder and CEO lives there ;)


Doesn't he live in Arendal, Norway or he splits his time 50-50 between the two?

Interesting to see how they still plan on having quite a big and international team with Ft Lauderdale instead of New York (DY had an office next to Times Square with more than 5 people).

Anyone have a link to the live recording though?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5013
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:49 pm

They're going to need a UK AOC I think? Is that right?
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:24 pm

skipness1E wrote:
They're going to need a UK AOC I think? Is that right?


They at least plan to apply for one. Bit I noe they have come quite far with their Norwegian AOC as well
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:27 pm

TFFIP wrote:
I did think of West Jet as well but more because I believe Norse needs a good lie flat business product. Just as West Jet do.
Value for money economy and reasonably priced product to attract a business market and have a piece of solid revenue.
Without that, they have Jet Blue now from London to think about, Mint is an excellent product, I have used it from LA to JFK.
Filling those 50000 seats (I think I read their fleet will offer, on paddleyourowncanoe) on all cheap Y/Y+ just doesn't fill with confidence.


They will not have a lie flat product. Only Y+ and Y. While it will mean they do not get the high end business market, this is not in their business plan. But they will still get their share of price conscious business traveller
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:33 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
shadez wrote:
With this in mind, I'm a bit surprised they plan to serve FLL, given that Norwegian was progressively shifting its focus to MIA.


It is not finally decided between the airport.

But they do have an office in Fort Lauderdale, and their founder and CEO lives there ;)


Doesn't he live in Arendal, Norway or he splits his time 50-50 between the two?

Interesting to see how they still plan on having quite a big and international team with Ft Lauderdale instead of New York (DY had an office next to Times Square with more than 5 people).

Anyone have a link to the live recording though?


I do believe he actually live in the US, although not sure where i legally lives
 
airlinenavigato
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:56 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 1:12 am

Regarding feeders they are looking for airlines on both sides of the atlantic.

FR seems to be out. They only serve 3 destinations each in OSL and LGW. FR was interested in feeding Norwegian, but then denied because of the financial situations of Norwegian.

The start of Norse' operations is going to be in the first half of 2022.

https://www.reuters.com/article/norse-a ... SO9N2MD026

https://flynorse.com/press-releases/nor ... ners-sl5tw
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:21 am

skipness1E wrote:
So 15 ex Norwegian B787s flying on former Norwegian routes run by ex Norwegian people in a market well down on pre COVID, with no feed focussing only on point to point.
If I had seen my shareholder value repeatedly burned by this, I'd be 200% deffo certain that it would surely work next time.........


There is a few x-Norwegian people onboard here, but most aren't. But I'm rather sure they somehow has been able to get a look into Norwegian former market data.....

airlinenavigato wrote:
Regarding feeders they are looking for airlines on both sides of the atlantic.


At the OSL side, I'm rather sure they will get feed from Norwegian. They claimed to be in talk with several companies
 
Wneast
Posts: 1002
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:29 am

Some might think about this as crazy but what about them partnering with WN on the American side for feeder flights it would greatly benefit both of them. WN passengers would fill Norse planes with them wanting to go to Europe and then Norse being able to have there passengers continue on to USA destinations they don’t serve
 
GVZZZ
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:21 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:02 am

Wneast wrote:
Some might think about this as crazy but what about them partnering with WN on the American side for feeder flights it would greatly benefit both of them. WN passengers would fill Norse planes with them wanting to go to Europe and then Norse being able to have there passengers continue on to USA destinations they don’t serve


At JFK? See: https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:03 am

Wneast wrote:
Some might think about this as crazy but what about them partnering with WN on the American side for feeder flights it would greatly benefit both of them. WN passengers would fill Norse planes with them wanting to go to Europe and then Norse being able to have there passengers continue on to USA destinations they don’t serve

I would think that Norse would benefit from a partner short-haul network much, much more on the European side. They seem to want to cater largely to US-based customers who want to go to Europe for cheap, and these are the kinds of passengers who fly airlines like Vueling, Ryanair, Easyjet, etc on intra-European short-haul.

Even if they were to partner with an American lcc, it would most likely not be WN. WN does not fly to JFK or EWR so would be absolutely useless if they wanted feed directly from the NYC area intl airports.

However, an airline with a decently strong network at JFK/EWR, FLL, & LAX is B6. B6 is likely the "ideal" US feeder they are aiming for. Even still I don't see B6 pursuing any kind of partnership with Norse. In just a couple years, with the arrival or more LRs + XLRs, they will likely be competing in very similar tatl markets out of NYC that Norse will be interested in as well.

The next best option is NK. Decent networks out of EWR, FLL/MIA, and LAX. F9 has a more desirable brand image of course, but will no longer fly to LAX by the time Norse starts operations.

I still am unconvinced that Norse needs any kind of partnership with airlines in the West though. To me, the value comes in having a partner short-haul European network, where they can allow connections, since I presume that their services will be most targeted towards the US-based passenger. For example, I flew OAK-SPU on Norwegian in maybe 2018 and had a pretty seamless connection through LGW. Flew back DBV-OAK via OSL and had a similarly pleasant-enough experience. If Norse can kind of replicate the old Norwegian short-haul network, this time instead allowing connections on a separate European short-haul partner, they'll be golden.

Edited for grammar mistake.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1002
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:06 am

GVZZZ wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Some might think about this as crazy but what about them partnering with WN on the American side for feeder flights it would greatly benefit both of them. WN passengers would fill Norse planes with them wanting to go to Europe and then Norse being able to have there passengers continue on to USA destinations they don’t serve


At JFK? See: https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html

Not JFK but there other potential adds that they did start following
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3548
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:02 am

airlinenavigato wrote:
Regarding feeders they are looking for airlines on both sides of the atlantic.

FR seems to be out. They only serve 3 destinations each in OSL and LGW. FR was interested in feeding Norwegian, but then denied because of the financial situations of Norwegian.

The start of Norse' operations is going to be in the first half of 2022.

https://www.reuters.com/article/norse-a ... SO9N2MD026

https://flynorse.com/press-releases/nor ... ners-sl5tw


They are looking into feeding with either DY or Flyr for flights from OSL. They are still in the talks (unable to find the article atm).
 
Galwayman
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:26 pm

I wish them well, competition is always welcome and DY was a high quality transatlantic experience compared to many other airlines.....but there are so many discounters across the atlantic ( TP, EI, BA etc ) it's difficult to see what they bring to the market ( outside of maybe decently priced premium economy)
 
airlinenavigato
Posts: 341
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:56 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:48 pm

lesfalls wrote:
They are looking into feeding with either DY or Flyr for flights from OSL. They are still in the talks (unable to find the article atm).


Then it would fit. Flyr and Norwegian in OSL. In LGW and CDG mainly worldwide by easyjet and some feeding from Norwegian.

Wizz has >10 destinations from each OSL and LGW. But it's rather unlikely they want to go into a partnership. Maybe if Norse takes most of the financial risk of missed connections.

I'm interested about the flying times from Europe.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2713
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:04 pm

Oykie wrote:
The livery is very nice! I actually like it with the Oseberg ship on its tail. There was some picture of it earlier, but they disappeared. It’s possible to see the livery here: https://flynorse.com/media-library


Nice Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 screenshots. Livery looks good.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5421
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: New Norwegian low-cost Norse Atlantic Airways announced

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:17 pm

airlinenavigato wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
They are looking into feeding with either DY or Flyr for flights from OSL. They are still in the talks (unable to find the article atm).


Then it would fit. Flyr and Norwegian in OSL. In LGW and CDG mainly worldwide by easyjet and some feeding from Norwegian.

Wizz has >10 destinations from each OSL and LGW. But it's rather unlikely they want to go into a partnership. Maybe if Norse takes most of the financial risk of missed connections.

I'm interested about the flying times from Europe.


You need to take into consideration Wizz route network and strategy to Scandinavia. It is mainly to bring workers from Eastern Europe, VFR and weekend tourist from Scandinavia. Their schedule and route structure is not suitable for feed.

However, talking for OSL, Norwegian has all this, offering multiple daily from all relevant Norwegian airports, the Nordic capitals, and also from other major European cities (in a "normalized" non-Covid environment)
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos