lesfalls wrote:

Does anyone have the exact location of Norse’s office in Fort Lauderdale?

Haven’t had any luck in finding it.

TexasAirCorp wrote:

Bjørn Kjos seems to love flushing money down the toilet

rrapynot wrote:

Please, please, please launch OAK/SFO. Fares to Europe have gone sky high (excuse the pun) since Norwegian stopped flying long haul.

seansasLCY wrote:

Norse has announced a Berlin base with daily flights to New York JFK and 3x weekly to also Angeles. https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/15 ... zZkt0AR9oQ

a350lover wrote:

seansasLCY wrote:

Norse has announced a Berlin base with daily flights to New York JFK and 3x weekly to also Angeles. https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/15 ... zZkt0AR9oQ

Base...?

aviator2000 wrote:

I think they made a wise choice. I'd say Berlin is amongst the biggest european cities that are more poorly connected to the US. Wish them the best of luck

DLHAM wrote:

While I see good chances for the LAX flight I am sceptical about the JFK flight. From May through late October the flight will do well, but in Winter this will be a very hard challenge, especially with United flying through the Winter too.
Also not very attractive is the arriving time at JFK -- 10PM.
I know its not the best comparison because the target group was different but Emirates from HAM to JFK also had a late departure time, arriving JFK past 6PM, and this was the reason why Emirates struggled to steal more high yielding passengers from Continental or Star Alliance in General.
I know this flight is aimed at backpackers but also those often look at flight times.
Also the yields of the United flight will suffer and in Winter even more. Will be interesting to see ...

FLYKTPA wrote:

DLHAM wrote:

While I see good chances for the LAX flight I am sceptical about the JFK flight. From May through late October the flight will do well, but in Winter this will be a very hard challenge, especially with United flying through the Winter too.
Also not very attractive is the arriving time at JFK -- 10PM.
I know its not the best comparison because the target group was different but Emirates from HAM to JFK also had a late departure time, arriving JFK past 6PM, and this was the reason why Emirates struggled to steal more high yielding passengers from Continental or Star Alliance in General.
I know this flight is aimed at backpackers but also those often look at flight times.
Also the yields of the United flight will suffer and in Winter even more. Will be interesting to see ...

That’s one of the shortfalls Norwegian admitted. They didn’t allow their routes to fluctuate enough in the low season, and decided to change their strategy too late. No way they can fill daily OSL and BER at decent fares in the winter. Hopefully they lower frequency and send some to Florida or other popular winter locations.

seansasLCY wrote:

Norse has announced a Berlin base with daily flights to New York JFK and 3x weekly to also Angeles. https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/15 ... zZkt0AR9oQ

JetBuddy wrote:

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

JetBuddy wrote:

The timings of arrivals and departures are weird for a networked airline, but Norse is just going to be point to point. So it might actually work.

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

JetBuddy wrote:

The timings of arrivals and departures are weird for a networked airline, but Norse is just going to be point to point. So it might actually work.

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

TexasAirCorp wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

Oslo has a bigger catchment area than Berlin and Norwegian struggled to fill long-haul there.

NCAD95 wrote:

a350lover wrote:

2021 we won't see crowds of Americans or Europeans crossing the Altantic.
Why would you want to use again an aircraft which definitely didn't help Norwegian about 10 years ago, especially now that the A321LR is a reality?

Exactly 321s to second tear cities in the US and Canada with no ULCC/LCC option with a scissor hub in central Europe less than daily on the North America side. Preferably serving cities where the TATL inbounds can do a European turn as well. And boom you've got a viable business plan. You need to also ensure you are not a threat to incumbent carriers and the US3 that's why I say less than daily. Because you will be serving a market that the US3 don't care to cater to a market that at this point doesn't really exist where you can crave out your own niche. Until it's done you can't say it doesn't work just because the numbers may indicate that.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

NCAD95 wrote:

a350lover wrote:

2021 we won't see crowds of Americans or Europeans crossing the Altantic.
Why would you want to use again an aircraft which definitely didn't help Norwegian about 10 years ago, especially now that the A321LR is a reality?

Exactly 321s to second tear cities in the US and Canada with no ULCC/LCC option with a scissor hub in central Europe less than daily on the North America side. Preferably serving cities where the TATL inbounds can do a European turn as well. And boom you've got a viable business plan. You need to also ensure you are not a threat to incumbent carriers and the US3 that's why I say less than daily. Because you will be serving a market that the US3 don't care to cater to a market that at this point doesn't really exist where you can crave out your own niche. Until it's done you can't say it doesn't work just because the numbers may indicate that.

I don't see them undercutting Turkish Airlines to cities in Eastern Europe, and TK has daily flights to most of the hubs they serve in the US. Most second and third tier cities in the US can get connecting flights to and from those hubs.

a350lover wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

NCAD95 wrote:

Exactly 321s to second tear cities in the US and Canada with no ULCC/LCC option with a scissor hub in central Europe less than daily on the North America side. Preferably serving cities where the TATL inbounds can do a European turn as well. And boom you've got a viable business plan. You need to also ensure you are not a threat to incumbent carriers and the US3 that's why I say less than daily. Because you will be serving a market that the US3 don't care to cater to a market that at this point doesn't really exist where you can crave out your own niche. Until it's done you can't say it doesn't work just because the numbers may indicate that.

I don't see them undercutting Turkish Airlines to cities in Eastern Europe, and TK has daily flights to most of the hubs they serve in the US. Most second and third tier cities in the US can get connecting flights to and from those hubs.

We can’t really compare Norse to something like Turkish. Their economies of scale are 100% different.

JetBuddy wrote:

The timings of arrivals and departures are weird for a networked airline, but Norse is just going to be point to point. So it might actually work.

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

mercure1 wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

Its a pretty poor market as has been proven over and over.

Yesterday US aviation writer Brett Snyder had a story analyzing the markets history.
https://crankyflier.com/2022/06/09/nors ... to-berlin/

Milgram wrote:

The catchment area of Berlin Airport includes the western part of Poland (incl. Szczecin and Posen) and big parts of the eastern part of Germany up to the Wolfsburg/Hanover area. It includes cities like Leipzig, Dresden or Magdeburg (the place Intel actually is investing 17 billion euros), ... .
And Berlin itself has developed economically in comparison to the situation ten years ago.
For instance Tesla has opened three month ago its first European Gigafactory in the Berlin area or actually Deutsche Bank is shifting a tech center with 1.500 IT-specialists from russia to Berlin.

Nevertheless I do not see a daily Norse flight with 344 seats betwenn JFK and BER in winter. The schedule is open until the end of October and personaly I expect Norse reducing the frequency during the winter flight schedule.

fraT wrote:

Milgram wrote:

The catchment area of Berlin Airport includes the western part of Poland (incl. Szczecin and Posen) and big parts of the eastern part of Germany up to the Wolfsburg/Hanover area. It includes cities like Leipzig, Dresden or Magdeburg (the place Intel actually is investing 17 billion euros), ... .
And Berlin itself has developed economically in comparison to the situation ten years ago.
For instance Tesla has opened three month ago its first European Gigafactory in the Berlin area or actually Deutsche Bank is shifting a tech center with 1.500 IT-specialists from russia to Berlin.

Nevertheless I do not see a daily Norse flight with 344 seats betwenn JFK and BER in winter. The schedule is open until the end of October and personaly I expect Norse reducing the frequency during the winter flight schedule.

Not sure if too many people from Poland will drive/use the train to BER to fly from there. Same for those parts from Germany you are mentioning. And these people who might do that are for sure not high yielding passengers to make the N0 flights profitable.
As mentioned before, Berlin is missing the repeating corporate travelers. Yes, there have been lots of decent paid jobs created in and around Berlin, but most of that will only result in some vacation flights. Corporate travelers will stick to the carrier/alliance of their choice/FF card. With all the problems LH and other legacies are currently having, they still do have the contracts with the companies and basically every corporate traveler has a M&M card in his wallet.

Milgram wrote:

fraT wrote:

Milgram wrote:

The catchment area of Berlin Airport includes the western part of Poland (incl. Szczecin and Posen) and big parts of the eastern part of Germany up to the Wolfsburg/Hanover area. It includes cities like Leipzig, Dresden or Magdeburg (the place Intel actually is investing 17 billion euros), ... .
And Berlin itself has developed economically in comparison to the situation ten years ago.
For instance Tesla has opened three month ago its first European Gigafactory in the Berlin area or actually Deutsche Bank is shifting a tech center with 1.500 IT-specialists from russia to Berlin.

Nevertheless I do not see a daily Norse flight with 344 seats betwenn JFK and BER in winter. The schedule is open until the end of October and personaly I expect Norse reducing the frequency during the winter flight schedule.

Not sure if too many people from Poland will drive/use the train to BER to fly from there. Same for those parts from Germany you are mentioning. And these people who might do that are for sure not high yielding passengers to make the N0 flights profitable.
As mentioned before, Berlin is missing the repeating corporate travelers. Yes, there have been lots of decent paid jobs created in and around Berlin, but most of that will only result in some vacation flights. Corporate travelers will stick to the carrier/alliance of their choice/FF card. With all the problems LH and other legacies are currently having, they still do have the contracts with the companies and basically every corporate traveler has a M&M card in his wallet.

In this we are talking about Norse amd the target customers of their product are exclusively passengers who want to travel price conscious. The B787-9 are equipped without C, offering solely seats in Economy and Premium Economy. So there is no high yiedling product available with Norse.

By the way, in 2019 the amount of travelers from Poland at Berlin Airports was approx. 10 % of all passengers, SXF and TXL still in service.

JetBuddy wrote:

DLHAM wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

The timings of arrivals and departures are weird for a networked airline, but Norse is just going to be point to point. So it might actually work.

Berlin really is underserved, and has a very big catchment area. Very high potential.

Underserved in Summer season from April/May through October, but definitely not in November, January, February etc ... I dont see NYC working all year.

mercure1 wrote:

Its a pretty poor market as has been proven over and over.

Yesterday US aviation writer Brett Snyder had a story analyzing the markets history.
https://crankyflier.com/2022/06/09/nors ... to-berlin/

Great article, I could not say it better. LAX could work more or less with 3 weekly maybe even in Winter months but JFK will be a disaster. Delta only flew in Summer, they knew why. They flew a 767, they knew why. They had feed/connections at JFK. airberlin had Feed on both ends, this is not comparable.
What could work is downgrade JFK all the way down to 3 weekly in Winter (would most certainly still burn Money) and add Miami 2-3 weekly.

The article is interesting, but I'm not so sure about the conclusions. Before the pandemic, Berlin had multiple daily flights on different carriers to various US airports. Post-pandemic (I hope), only United is currently back with their EWR flight. That doesn't mean there's no demand. After the pandemic, travel is surging again and airlines are really struggling to find enough staff. Routes are being slashed and the airlines have to prioritize.

The fuel prices are high, this is true. However, Norse is flying the most fuel efficient airliner that has ever existed, at very low leasing rates. They're selling very affordable tickets to a market that needs affordable pricing to travel. And they're also flying a widebody jet with plenty of cargo space. To two different mega hubs (JFK and LAX). If they can negotiate some contracts for cargo, it would help them make a profit.

We'll see what happens. The world economy seems to go down the drain now anyway.

Someone83 wrote:

First commercial flight just departed OSL. N0 1 OSL-JFK

Oykie wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

First flight has a 85-90% load of passenger according to the CEO. I look forward to try out the airline this summer and I really want them to succeed.