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tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:45 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
Where's the data that proves the most talented employees prefer to work in NYC and the likes? There are plenty of talented professionals who would prefer to not live in NYC, so I don't think the threat of losing talent is significant enough to sway the decision here.

Even if it does, the amount of money B6 will save on rent and tax long-term will dwarf short-term salary increases to keep current employees (until they eventually move on from B6).

B6 employees in NYC would be lucky enough to keep their salaries the same after moving to Florida. B6 would owe generous relocation perks.

It's a brilliant move for B6 and its shareholders if they actually go through with this.


Yet, all the large tech companies kept on wanting to expand their engineering offices in NYC. Maybe they know something?

The Manhattan commercial real estate is at rock bottom right now. Rent is really low. This isn't 2019. B6 can get a great deal anywhere in Manhattan/Brooklyn/Queens with a smaller space than the current LIC space. It can also have a satellite office in CT and claim that it's bringing additional jobs in the region and is the largest carrier in CT. Or it can open a satellite office in NJ and get additional gate space at EWR's new T1. Or it can open up a westchester office and see if it can get additional slots at HPN. There are so many angles JetBlue can play here. Tri state area politicians would be desperate to get a piece of JetBlue.

What is it going to get by forcing people that don't want to go to Florida to go there? It already has an office in Orlando and one for travel product in south Florida. People that want to move to Florida can simply do so.
 
crownvic
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:48 pm

I've lived in Orlando for 40 years and despite JetBlue having a large presence here including the maintenance hangar and JetBlue University, the Tampa/St Pete area is the place to be. It wins hands down when it comes to the latest and greatest. Lots of high tech and bio companies located there. Tampa is where its happening...
 
DFW17L
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:54 pm

adambrau wrote:
janders wrote:
WSJ just today had a story about how COVID has changed NYC in 2020.

Some stark numbers.

> 30.303 deaths
> 187,000 households moved out of the city
> 626,400 private-sector jobs lost
> Downtown office occupancy down 84%
> MTA daily ridership down 70%

https://www.wsj.com/story/the-numbers-a ... 4?mod=e2tw

For better or worse NYC is being hollowed out, and as companies are becoming ever more willing to have hybrid or distributed workforces it probably makes ever less sense to be located or tied down to real estate in large expensive metro areas like NYC.


It will be interesting to see what happens in NYC. I will never leave - even with the horrible last year the city is now not so bad as many make out here. Personally the suburbs or Florida is not for me. I enjoy not having a car and walking places. I take the subway from Manhattan to JFK every day I work. I've had both my vaccine shots and been out twice to amazing restaurants in the last couple of weeks. Spring/summer are on the way as are the number of those vaccinated. I can see things being rough for a couple of years but just like the 70's and early 80's when folks were jumping ship, the city rebounded. As it did after 9/11. NYC got hit hardest by Covid because we got hit first and the medical community had to learn to reduce death rates with a mysterious virus. A year ago things were unsettled. And certainly I have a lot of friends who have left. And died. Jetblue can move management out of state as they are obliged to their shareholders, I get it. No airlines are headquartered here anymore anyway and it's been like that since Pan Am. NYC will always be a love it or hate it proposition to different people. But as the cyclicality of life re-calibrates, people will be getting back on planes. And want to live again in the Apple.


I think you make a good case, @adambrau.

I hope things continue to improve in the NYC area.
 
micstatic
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:02 pm

That doesn't mean many of the non pilot jobs are not staffed by people who went to aviation universities. All sorts of aviation jobs have employees who went to Embry-Riddle etc. I realize many of these jobs are also generic MBA types. But people discount on a.net how widespread aviation major related professionals are deeply infilitrated all across this industry.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:05 pm

Another factor that could mean "this time it's for real": When AA moved from 3rd Avenue to DFW in 1978, their image took a beating in New York City. However, things were relatively stable in NYC in 1978, so politicians and the media could focus on AA, because AA's move was the most serious problem the city was dealing with.

Right now, NYC and Albany, and the reporters who cover them, are distracted by Cuomo's problems, BLM protests, and the aftermath of the pandemic. Although there will be some negative publicity if jetBlue moves to Florida, it's likely to disappear from the headlines far quicker than AA's move did, because NYC and the state of New York are dealing with so many serious problems.

If jetBlue wants to move, this would be an ideal time to do so, because they would face less negative publicity than if they moved at some point in the future when there were fewer crises in NYC and Albany.
 
micstatic
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:06 pm

tphuang


that was then. everything is arguably very different now. You also don't speak for every employee at the jetblue hq. I would imagine many would jump at the chance to get our of the ny metro area.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:18 pm

micstatic wrote:
tphuang


that was then. everything is arguably very different now. You also don't speak for every employee at the jetblue hq. I would imagine many would jump at the chance to get our of the ny metro area.


I'm not speaking for JetBlue employees. New York firms are working very hard to adjust to the new decentralized work culture. I'm sure some people will want to move to Florida, but that's a small number compared to people that might want a NJ or CT or Westchester office.

Please read this
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-a-return

Yet U.S. Postal Service data paints a different picture: Last year, 2,246 people filed a permanent address change from Manhattan to Miami-Dade County and 1,741 went to Palm Beach County. Together they account for 9% of the out-of-state moves from the borough, up from 6% in 2019.
...
More Manhattanites relocated to Jersey City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago and Hoboken, New Jersey, than they did to either Miami or Palm Beach. Except for Philadelphia, the other destinations are in some of the highest-taxed states.


If JetBlue can get the politicians in NJ/CT or westchester to get them additional favours at EWR/HPN/BDL by opening up satellite offices, they should think about it.
 
micstatic
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
micstatic wrote:
tphuang


that was then. everything is arguably very different now. You also don't speak for every employee at the jetblue hq. I would imagine many would jump at the chance to get our of the ny metro area.


I'm not speaking for JetBlue employees. New York firms are working very hard to adjust to the new decentralized work culture. I'm sure some people will want to move to Florida, but that's a small number compared to people that might want a NJ or CT or Westchester office.

Please read this
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-a-return

Yet U.S. Postal Service data paints a different picture: Last year, 2,246 people filed a permanent address change from Manhattan to Miami-Dade County and 1,741 went to Palm Beach County. Together they account for 9% of the out-of-state moves from the borough, up from 6% in 2019.
...
More Manhattanites relocated to Jersey City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago and Hoboken, New Jersey, than they did to either Miami or Palm Beach. Except for Philadelphia, the other destinations are in some of the highest-taxed states.


If JetBlue can get the politicians in NJ/CT or westchester to get them additional favors at EWR/HPN/BDL by opening up satellite offices, they should think about it.



I read that article this morning. To be honest it was a terrible article. In fact it read like the author was bothered so many people are fleeing NYC, then sought out an "A list" business type who agreed. Got some quotes and published it. It's natural that a few people who have fleed NYC to Florida are homesick and possibly even full of regret. The article however totally ignores the large amount of people who are delighted with their new increase in quality of life. that probably wouldn't get as many clicks though. Edit: it also was guilty of what so many others from new york do. Thinks they are smarter, have better food, better this, better that. Turns out there are tons of smart people and other high quality things all over this country.
Last edited by micstatic on Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
stlgph
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:25 pm

A long talked-about and rumored to Florida would make sense. They've played the Chuck Schumer about as far as they can at this point and the move to Florida would bring about much needed lucrative financial incentives.

A big sexy city isn't always needed for finding the right talent pool or the resources to make it work. Wal Mart, anyone?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:28 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
Another factor that could mean "this time it's for real": When AA moved from 3rd Avenue to DFW in 1978, their image took a beating in New York City. However, things were relatively stable in NYC in 1978, so politicians and the media could focus on AA, because AA's move was the most serious problem the city was dealing with.

Right now, NYC and Albany, and the reporters who cover them, are distracted by Cuomo's problems, BLM protests, and the aftermath of the pandemic. Although there will be some negative publicity if jetBlue moves to Florida, it's likely to disappear from the headlines far quicker than AA's move did, because NYC and the state of New York are dealing with so many serious problems.

If jetBlue wants to move, this would be an ideal time to do so, because they would face less negative publicity than if they moved at some point in the future when there were fewer crises in NYC and Albany.


This is all hyberbole and none rooted in facts, and just gleans from the headlines of a trashy tabloid. At the end of the day, a corporation, B6, or otherwise, will move to another state if tax incentives are there (they could not care less about their employees except if the overall cost per head is cheaper to employ in Florida vs. NY). The gargantuan migration of talent, businesses, etc...from NY to Florida is simply overstated. The majority of moves out of NYC have been ironically to the Philly area and to LA. Not Florida. The businesses that moved and grabbed headlines are more about high paid CEOs and their tax situation than the overall company and some companies have noted the struggle to find the type of talent and caliber in Florida that is available in NY is real (for a certain cross section of jobs). Florida is having its moment for sure. The weather is balmy, there are few restrictions, and it's pleasant. The next Hurricane Andrew to hit it will undo a lot of what currently appeals there. Florida is one of the few warm weather destinations people have been able to access cheaply and easily all winter. Back to B6, the politicians in NY will, if they think it matters, toss tax breaks to keep B6 HQ'd in NYC. It happens all the time.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:35 pm

micstatic wrote:
tphuang wrote:
micstatic wrote:
tphuang


that was then. everything is arguably very different now. You also don't speak for every employee at the jetblue hq. I would imagine many would jump at the chance to get our of the ny metro area.


I'm not speaking for JetBlue employees. New York firms are working very hard to adjust to the new decentralized work culture. I'm sure some people will want to move to Florida, but that's a small number compared to people that might want a NJ or CT or Westchester office.

Please read this
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-a-return

Yet U.S. Postal Service data paints a different picture: Last year, 2,246 people filed a permanent address change from Manhattan to Miami-Dade County and 1,741 went to Palm Beach County. Together they account for 9% of the out-of-state moves from the borough, up from 6% in 2019.
...
More Manhattanites relocated to Jersey City, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago and Hoboken, New Jersey, than they did to either Miami or Palm Beach. Except for Philadelphia, the other destinations are in some of the highest-taxed states.


If JetBlue can get the politicians in NJ/CT or westchester to get them additional favors at EWR/HPN/BDL by opening up satellite offices, they should think about it.



I read that article this morning. To be honest it was a terrible article. In fact it read like the author was bothered so many people are fleeing NYC, then sought out an "A list" business type who agreed. Got some quotes and published it. It's natural that a few people who have fleed NYC to Florida are homesick and possibly even full of regret. The article however totally ignores the large amount of people who are delighted with their new increase in quality of life. that probably wouldn't get as many clicks though. Edit: it also was guilty of what so many others from new york do. Thinks they are smarter, have better food, better this, better that. Turns out there are tons of smart people and other high quality things all over this country.


Using USPS data is a pretty good indication of where people are moving permanently. The data matches the narrative that more people have fled than in years past and a larger proportion of that moved to Florida than in years past. The data does not match the narrative that there was this huge relocation to Florida. If you have proof otherwise, please present that.

As I said, all the data show that many people who had been considering moving out of NYC to surrounding regions in tri-state area did in fact make that move. It allows them to have more space and less concerns about lockdowns while still living within commuting distance of their office. Whatever move JetBlue makes will at least have to take into consideration where its office workforce want to be. It costs a lot of money to hire and train staff.
 
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STT757
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:51 pm

Hoboken, Jersey City, World Trade Center, Hudson Yards all have terrific office spaces and surrounding entertainment without walking distance. Most of those places the Port Authority is involved with real estate, might be viewed favorably by the agency.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:15 pm

The combined state and federal corporate tax rate in New York now stands at 26.1 percent, representing a tie for 23rd highest levy among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to a new study from the Tax Foundation.

You were thinking that New York State ranked high among corporate income taxes? It does not. See Iowa, NJ, PA, MN, IL and Alaska.

Florida's Federal + state tax rate is 24.6%, and let's not pretend that is significantly different, as state tax payments are deductible from Federal taxes.


Partially true, and in actuality I should have added more detail to my original post. While New York State's corporate tax rate is relatively low, corporations are nicked and dimed to death with a plethora of other taxes, including New York City taxes: https://cbcny.org/research/new-york-tax ... nnsylvania.

The operative sentence there is, "The sum of the State effective tax rate (5.92 percent), City rate (8.85 percent), and MTA taxes (1.71percent) is 16.49 percent on businesses operating in New York City. This is the highest CFT rate in the country, more than 35 percent more than the second highest rate levied in Iowa."

For an airline like Jetblue. the sum of these taxes is pretty doggone significant. Now, as I said earlier I actually don't think that Jetblue wants to leave. I think that they want to remain New York City's hometown airline, but... Think of this as a shot across the bow, as a warning to those in charge. Corporations are movable. They're people legally, and like "real" people they can relocate if the financial going gets too tough, unless the powers that be want to wheel and deal. That's likely what Jetblue is angling for - toss the idea of leaving against the wall, see what sticks, see if New York lawmakers are willing to deal, read the result, rinse, repeat...
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:31 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
An airline HQ is not really “aviation jobs.” It is Fortune 500 jobs, with a travel industry focus. Airlines usually hire for their “aviation roles” outside the Headquarters. There is nothing to fly at HQ.



What is the huge SOC then?

It takes up a major part of HQ.

All aviation.

No reason they need to be in NYC. It is actually a detriment to recruiting for them
 
N965UW
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:33 pm

We could look to Atlas Air as a possible case study. 5Y is the other 121 airline headquartered in New York (Westchester). It leases space from Morgan Stanley (which itself uses the building as a satellite office). While upper management and most professional jobs remain in NY, Atlas has been increasingly staffing office and operational jobs in CVG along with MIA. This is probably more due to the growth of their network rather than tax/cost concerns, but it shows that an airline like B6 could conceivably diversify its office space, maybe with a head office in NYC and satellite offices in CT/NJ/FL.

Aptivaboy wrote:
Smart business, if you ask me, and another wake-up call to the folks in New York City and State that raising taxes isn't necessarily conducive to good business or revenue generation. No one in power there appears to have ever heard of the Laffer Curve.


They've had several wakeup calls over many years, yet consistently refuse to fix the situation.
You can always go around
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:35 pm

STT757 wrote:
Hoboken, Jersey City, World Trade Center, Hudson Yards all have terrific office spaces and surrounding entertainment without walking distance. Most of those places the Port Authority is involved with real estate, might be viewed favorably by the agency.



But they want the majority of their stuff in Florida

Why go to Jersey? It’s cheaper than New York but that’s not really getting them to where they want to be.

As you said, they will keep a token presence in a high profile location. The rest will go to Orlando
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:48 pm

N965UW wrote:
We could look to Atlas Air as a possible case study. 5Y is the other 121 airline headquartered in New York (Westchester). It leases space from Morgan Stanley (which itself uses the building as a satellite office). While upper management and most professional jobs remain in NY, Atlas has been increasingly staffing office and operational jobs in CVG along with MIA. This is probably more due to the growth of their network rather than tax/cost concerns, but it shows that an airline like B6 could conceivably diversify its office space, maybe with a head office in NYC and satellite offices in CT/NJ/FL.

B6 has offices in NYC (HQs, HR, IT, safety, operations...etc), SLC (customer support), FLL (JB vacations), SF Bay Area (JB tech ventures), and Orlando (training). Of all of those, Orlando has the most space and is the likely the most cost effective solution, and it works well with existing (and future planned) infrastructure. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a bunch of the current NYC functions moved to Orlando, even if they decide to keep the HQs in NYC. Unless of course NY politics and/or financial incentives are juicy enough to extend the lease there.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:55 pm

This is a win-win for JetBlue:

Either they:
1. get huge offers from politicians to stay in NY
or
2.They move to Florida where it's warmer, future staff will get low salaries, it's more affordable than nyc, and taxes are way lower/incentives will be given. Ron Desantis would love a large airline leaving NYC for florida, you bet they would find a nice way to make sure they get a good incentive of some type. Company finds ny in business friendly, seeking refuge in business friendly florida would be a huge win politically.

Either case JetBlue wins.

This move wouldn't be a huge deal with everything going on both in aviation and the world they could move easily and it won't be front page news at all. Everyone knows aviation is hurting and moving to save money seems not that big a deal IMHO right now.
 
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airzim
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:21 pm

1) No matter what the published corporate tax rates are, they are not paying nearly that rate after deductions and incentives.
2) If an employee leaves NYC and relocates to NJ or CT or upstate but is still domiciled from the NYC office, they will have to pay NY City Income taxes regardless of where they live.
3) The NJ and Westchester suburbs have some of the highest property taxes in the nation. Can't see that this would be an incentive to leave NYC
4) While FL and TX look attractive on paper, most corporate level folks that have children are not going to put their kids in the public school system (depends on the suburb/area). Almost everyone I know is putting their kids in private school. Pay now or pay later.
5) Everyone seems to ignore the enormous investment Amazon, Google, Disney and Facebook are putting into Manhattan, with the prospects of 100s of thousands of new jobs.

They City is not dying, it's just changing.
 
32andBelow
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:31 pm

Good news for everyone that works at spirit HQ. they can just move on up to B6. Doubt even half the B6 staff would agree to move
 
fsnuffer
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:51 pm

It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:56 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
This isn't just about rent and office space. This is really about state income taxes. I'm honestly not trying to become political - really - but let's get real, here. New York City and New York State income taxes aren't coming down anytime soon. Indeed, they're likely to rise. Absent some sweetheart deal, why would Jetblue choose to remain and be taxed at those higher rates? Also, its fairly assured that federal corporate tax rates will rise soon, too, so moving to tax friendly Florida would help to offset those projected federal rate hikes... Smart business, if you ask me, and another wake-up call to the folks in New York City and State that raising taxes isn't necessarily conducive to good business or revenue generation. No one in power there appears to have ever heard of the Laffer Curve.

Also, no one is saying that Jetblue would totally abandon New York City, anymore that Alaska Airlines abandoned the state of Alaska by headquartering in Seattle. They'd still serve the state, but would have their headquarters in another state. Being headquartered in Seattle hasn't prevented Alaska Airlines from painting salmon and other Alaskan motifs on its planes, for example. The connection would still remain.


These were my thoughts as well. having lived in NY I can tell you that many businesses and employees find the tax rates unsustainable.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:57 pm

A friend left Fairfield County for Florida early last year. Well off, speaking terms with the likes of the late Jack Welch, consulting business, big house, nice BMW. Last time I had lunch with him in Vero, “you can’t believe how much you get for your money here, move.”
 
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STT757
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:09 pm

fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-leases-new-manhattan-office-space-less-than-a-year-after-hq2-pullout-11575671243

https://ny.curbed.com/maps/amazon-google-facebook-nyc-offices
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:29 pm

What is the obsession with a CT office?

A little history...B6 had a CT office. Darien to be exact. The HQ was in Forest Hills.

They purposely brought it all together in LIC.

I dont see a satellite office again in a nearby suburb,
 
Lavdumper
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:31 pm

NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:37 pm

STT757 wrote:
fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-leases-new-manhattan-office-space-less-than-a-year-after-hq2-pullout-11575671243

https://ny.curbed.com/maps/amazon-google-facebook-nyc-offices



You must be kidding? The incentives were ridiculous, but that was for a HQ location. Just google what is going on in Northern Virginia where Amazon is building their HQ. You cant compare that to the growth Amazon is currently making in Manhattan. Totally different scope.

The Amazon debacle really illustrated how dysfunctional NYC and NYS are. There wasnt one party or one entity to deal with. Unlike VA where they were dealing with a unified government entity. In NY, the governor said one thing, mayor said another, assembly and senate said another thing, congressional rep was in a different direction...and the whole thing was killed by a no name NY State Senator appointed to an obscure board that had the power to end the incentives offered. NO ONE does business like that. NO ONE.

In the post mortems, several articles said that Amazon no longer felt it could take the Governor or Mayors word. The whole thing spiraled out of control and it was just easier to walk away.

Bringing that full circle to B6...why would they expose themselves like that? So Gennaris and AOC could rake them over the LIC coals again? That would be absurd
 
bennett123
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:42 pm

Is it very expensive to buy and sell houses in the US.

How does house prices compare between NY and FLA.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:50 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-leases-new-manhattan-office-space-less-than-a-year-after-hq2-pullout-11575671243

https://ny.curbed.com/maps/amazon-google-facebook-nyc-offices



You must be kidding? The incentives were ridiculous, but that was for a HQ location. Just google what is going on in Northern Virginia where Amazon is building their HQ. You cant compare that to the growth Amazon is currently making in Manhattan. Totally different scope.

The Amazon debacle really illustrated how dysfunctional NYC and NYS are. There wasnt one party or one entity to deal with. Unlike VA where they were dealing with a unified government entity. In NY, the governor said one thing, mayor said another, assembly and senate said another thing, congressional rep was in a different direction...and the whole thing was killed by a no name NY State Senator appointed to an obscure board that had the power to end the incentives offered. NO ONE does business like that. NO ONE.

In the post mortems, several articles said that Amazon no longer felt it could take the Governor or Mayors word. The whole thing spiraled out of control and it was just easier to walk away.

Bringing that full circle to B6...why would they expose themselves like that? So Gennaris and AOC could rake them over the LIC coals again? That would be absurd


Well, that how NY works or doesn’t work. High tax rates are all about government being able to hand out “goodies” to favored businesses. “JB, you want to leave, how about a 10% abatement for 5 years?” “Joe Blow Plumbing Supply, sorry, nothing for you, but pay up to pay JB’s abatement.”
 
fsnuffer
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:38 am

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:00 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-leases-new-manhattan-office-space-less-than-a-year-after-hq2-pullout-11575671243

https://ny.curbed.com/maps/amazon-google-facebook-nyc-offices



You must be kidding? The incentives were ridiculous, but that was for a HQ location. Just google what is going on in Northern Virginia where Amazon is building their HQ. You cant compare that to the growth Amazon is currently making in Manhattan.d


Just to be clear, I was not commenting on whether the incentives proposed to Amazon were appropriate or not. Only her constituents can do that and they re-elected her. All I said was it would be interesting to watch as it unfolded. Could be a lot of drama.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:03 pm

The thread title is somewhat misleading. The memo laid out a range of options, one of which is "shifting a to-be-determined number of LSC roles to existing support centers in Florida." Read the whole section:

"We are exploring a number of paths, including staying in Long Island City, moving to another space in New York City, and/or shifting a to-be-determined number of LSC roles to existing support centers in Florida.'

A more apt thread title: JetBlue Exploring Future HQ Options
 
catiii
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:

What roles can’t be filled in Florida?



To your point there's not a single role that cannot be moved to Florida. Or Texas. Or Georgia. Or North Carolina, or any of the other open for business states that have attracted major Fortune 100 and 500 companies from across the nation and somehow have found the talent.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:15 pm

Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.


Yet people still want to stay around NY area. More New Yorkers move to Cali than Florida. What does that tell you? Income tax rate of the state don't matter that much. People from socially liberal part of the country like to stay in socially liberal part of the country. But that hasn't stopped Florida from touting itself as the new Wall Street in the south.
 
PI4EVR
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:19 pm

:airplane: Come to Tampa B6. The sky and water are blue. The city will build you a blue office building and the employees will like the extra green in their wallet.
The best of everything Florida has to offer. Come see us. Its currently sunny and 84*F. Flights leave daily.
P.S. No I do not work for the Chamber of Commerce. My hometown tho".
 
airbazar
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:42 pm

STT757 wrote:
fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.


Haha exactly. Similar story in Boston. Boston actually gave them concessions but they chose to go somewhere else, but guess what? They ended up still building up here anyway. At the end of the day, with high taxes or not this is where the money is, this is where the talent is, so this is where companies want to be. B6 may very well end up moving their address out of NYC like Boeing moved out of Seattle but they will always be as much a NYC airline as Boeing is a Seattle company.

Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time.

LOL. NY hosts the largest number of Fortune 500 companies of any state in the country. CA is second. What does that tell you?
Call me when NY is no longer the financial capital of the World.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-wo ... k-markets/
 
AEROFAN
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:59 pm

The vaccine is right around the corner. Come July/August, travel will explode. JB may reconsider then. Once vaccine is back in play, people who moved to Florida will move back to NYC in droves, as CEOS and senior managers will go back to insisting everyone need to be back in office.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
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airzim
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:09 pm

airbazar wrote:
STT757 wrote:
fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


A stopped clock is right twice a day, and you know what that was the right call with Amazon. They didn't get any special tax breaks and they still are expanding their presence in the City.


Haha exactly. Similar story in Boston. Boston actually gave them concessions but they chose to go somewhere else, but guess what? They ended up still building up here anyway. At the end of the day, with high taxes or not this is where the money is, this is where the talent is, so this is where companies want to be. B6 may very well end up moving their address out of NYC like Boeing moved out of Seattle but they will always be as much a NYC airline as Boeing is a Seattle company.

Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time.

LOL. NY hosts the largest number of Fortune 500 companies of any state in the country. CA is second. What does that tell you?
Call me when NY is no longer the financial capital of the World.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-wo ... k-markets/


Disney is building a huge new East Coast HQ in Hudson Square in Lower Manhattan, Google is finishing a massive complex on Houston and the Westside Highway, Facebook leased another 730,000 sqft of space on 34th St. And even without tax incentives, Amazon is leasing 350,000 more sqft in Hudson Yards.

I guess NY isn't very business friendly.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:33 pm

deltairlines wrote:
I'm in the process of looking for jobs in the Orlando and Tampa areas and get out of New York. It's only going to get worse too - rent might be cheaper now than it's been in a long time, but taxes in New York are only going to keep going up and up. There are plenty of people like me (mid-30s professional) in this area that will happily leave for the better weather and no taxes that Florida has to offer. I'll take the occasional hurricane over a blizzard (this winter was the last straw for me).


Domestic migration to Florida continues to slow; although hyped during the pandemic, the number of people who relocated into Florida (from another state) last year was about half of the number that did so in the mid-2010s. There was a really good article recently that detailed how most of the people who relocated into FL from the Northeast during the pandemic... had either moved back, or were making plans to do so. The state's biggest challenge? For skilled and college-educated professions, Florida has among the lowest wages and total compensation packages in the country, even as cost of living swells. Typically, the lower cost burden often fails to compensate for the lower compensation. And despite all the feel-good talk (during the height of the pandemic) that work from home (WFH) was here to stay, Corporate America is now increasingly telling us that while WFH will be increasingly tolerated, employees will still be expected to regularly report to the office, and live within a reasonable commute.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8074
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.


Yet people still want to stay around NY area. More New Yorkers move to Cali than Florida. What does that tell you? Income tax rate of the state don't matter that much. People from socially liberal part of the country like to stay in socially liberal part of the country. But that hasn't stopped Florida from touting itself as the new Wall Street in the south.


You might check your numbers, Florida far outdoes Cali.

https://www.empirecenter.org/publicatio ... kersgoing/

Even before COVID,

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/view ... xt=bb_pubs
 
boeingguy1
Posts: 419
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:53 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
I'm in the process of looking for jobs in the Orlando and Tampa areas and get out of New York. It's only going to get worse too - rent might be cheaper now than it's been in a long time, but taxes in New York are only going to keep going up and up. There are plenty of people like me (mid-30s professional) in this area that will happily leave for the better weather and no taxes that Florida has to offer. I'll take the occasional hurricane over a blizzard (this winter was the last straw for me).


Domestic migration to Florida continues to slow; although hyped during the pandemic, the number of people who relocated into Florida (from another state) last year was about half of the number that did so in the mid-2010s. There was a really good article recently that detailed how most of the people who relocated into FL from the Northeast during the pandemic... had either moved back, or were making plans to do so. The state's biggest challenge? For skilled and college-educated professions, Florida has among the lowest wages and total compensation packages in the country, even as cost of living swells. Typically, the lower cost burden often fails to compensate for the lower compensation. And despite all the feel-good talk (during the height of the pandemic) that work from home (WFH) was here to stay, Corporate America is now increasingly telling us that while WFH will be increasingly tolerated, employees will still be expected to regularly report to the office, and live within a reasonable commute.


https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/wall-stre ... to-return/ <-- there's the article you're looking for. Florida is great for some, but the problem with living in Florida is... you have to live in Florida. People who moved there during the pandemic are starting to realize that.

The death of NY/NYC has been overblown and forecasted for decades. The city will thrive and prosper as it always has, with ebbs and flows, drawing people from near and far for culture and opportunity.
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.


Yet people still want to stay around NY area. More New Yorkers move to Cali than Florida. What does that tell you? Income tax rate of the state don't matter that much. People from socially liberal part of the country like to stay in socially liberal part of the country. But that hasn't stopped Florida from touting itself as the new Wall Street in the south.


You might check your numbers, Florida far outdoes Cali.

https://www.empirecenter.org/publicatio ... kersgoing/


That is net migration. It's not outbound migration. Frankly, i have no idea where they got their data.

The outbound migration data from NYC based on USPS change of address shows that surrounding tri state area are the biggest destination of outbound migration.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:27 pm

JetBlue is one of many companies looking to move out. Companies have options. People have options. That is what is lost on politicians. Culture and the arts are great in NYC, but like everything, it costs money, and many residents have said it not worth paying for. There is a reason that New York lost 126,000 people between July 2019 and 2020 and believe me it was not all Covid related. In fact most of it was unrelated to Covid. Granted residents left to get away from some pretty draconian restrictions last Spring, but they worked remote in a neighboring state while maintaining a residence in NYC. The 126K that left the City and State have left for good and then does not even include the tens of thousands that have left since July, which will really be an eye opener. The fact is that while higher salaries usually offset the higher taxes for NYC residents, they have come to find that NYC and NYS need them more then they need the city or state. Below is an example of everything that is wrong with places like NYC and NYS, high-income New Yorkers pay the majority of state income taxes (while ironically using the least amount of Gov't services), whereby taxing the rich will solve all financial problems or at least in theory. What they don't realize that is by taxing those making 200k and making them accountable for 63 percent of personal tax revenue, it ends up hurting them even more when those people leave. Now you have even less number of high income earners paying the lion's share, which then gets passed onto the next tax bracket, which is the upper middle class, who then begin to feel the squeeze, decide they have options, and the leave as well, and the burden moves onto the lower middle class. It is a vicious cycle that is really starting to rear it's ugly head in places like New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. People have a list of so many other states to choose from and once they have had enough, they pack up and take their disposable income with the. That hurts local businesses and eventually corporate businesses, who will then fell the burden of offsetting the income tax deficits. It is not going to get any better either, with the 1.9 Trillion stimulus package will come higher federal taxes which will make individuals question even further what they are doing in cities and states with high local tax burdens. I wish NYC the best of luck. A truly great city that at one time was the envy of all, but now has been reduced to being the model for what not to do.

Income - % of Filers - % of Liability
$0 – $49,999 64.1% 2.8%
$50,000 – $99,999 19.7% 14.8%
$100,000 – $199,999 11.1% 20.0%
$200,000 + 5.2% 62.8%
 
maverick4002
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:36 pm

fsnuffer wrote:
It would be interesting to see the reaction from AOC and some of her compatriots if JetBlue threatens to move and NY/NYC tries to offer JetBlue incentives to stay. Just look to what happened to Amazon when they tried to build HQ2 in Long Island City.


What does AOC have to do with this? If they move they move, someone will take their place. That Amazon deal was absolutely terrible. The city was essentially paying them to come here and the effect on that already extremely gentrifying and increasing rents neighborhood would have been disastrous. All the other big tech firms (including Amazon!) have expanded in the city since then. NYC will survive without JetBlue
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:04 pm

MCO (where B6's major maintenance base and training academy is already) or FLL is likely where B6 would move...and I would say MCO is more likely as I can't see two airline HQs at the same airport (NK is already building a new headquarters adjacent to FLL). It would likely take major tax breaks to keep B6 headquartered in NYC. There is also the backdrop of next year's gubernatorial elections in Florida...Ron DeSantis will want a move to Florida finalized before the 2022 gubernatorial elections if B6 does move for real. I see the end of the year as when B6 will make its decision.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:42 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
JetBlue is one of many companies looking to move out. Companies have options. People have options. That is what is lost on politicians. Culture and the arts are great in NYC, but like everything, it costs money, and many residents have said it not worth paying for. There is a reason that New York lost 126,000 people between July 2019 and 2020 and believe me it was not all Covid related. In fact most of it was unrelated to Covid. Granted residents left to get away from some pretty draconian restrictions last Spring, but they worked remote in a neighboring state while maintaining a residence in NYC. The 126K that left the City and State have left for good and then does not even include the tens of thousands that have left since July, which will really be an eye opener. The fact is that while higher salaries usually offset the higher taxes for NYC residents, they have come to find that NYC and NYS need them more then they need the city or state. Below is an example of everything that is wrong with places like NYC and NYS, high-income New Yorkers pay the majority of state income taxes (while ironically using the least amount of Gov't services), whereby taxing the rich will solve all financial problems or at least in theory. What they don't realize that is by taxing those making 200k and making them accountable for 63 percent of personal tax revenue, it ends up hurting them even more when those people leave. Now you have even less number of high income earners paying the lion's share, which then gets passed onto the next tax bracket, which is the upper middle class, who then begin to feel the squeeze, decide they have options, and the leave as well, and the burden moves onto the lower middle class. It is a vicious cycle that is really starting to rear it's ugly head in places like New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. People have a list of so many other states to choose from and once they have had enough, they pack up and take their disposable income with the. That hurts local businesses and eventually corporate businesses, who will then fell the burden of offsetting the income tax deficits. It is not going to get any better either, with the 1.9 Trillion stimulus package will come higher federal taxes which will make individuals question even further what they are doing in cities and states with high local tax burdens. I wish NYC the best of luck. A truly great city that at one time was the envy of all, but now has been reduced to being the model for what not to do.

Income - % of Filers - % of Liability
$0 – $49,999 64.1% 2.8%
$50,000 – $99,999 19.7% 14.8%
$100,000 – $199,999 11.1% 20.0%
$200,000 + 5.2% 62.8%


where is your proof that 126k people left NYC/NYS for good?
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 511
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
JetBlue is one of many companies looking to move out. Companies have options. People have options. That is what is lost on politicians. Culture and the arts are great in NYC, but like everything, it costs money, and many residents have said it not worth paying for. There is a reason that New York lost 126,000 people between July 2019 and 2020 and believe me it was not all Covid related. In fact most of it was unrelated to Covid. Granted residents left to get away from some pretty draconian restrictions last Spring, but they worked remote in a neighboring state while maintaining a residence in NYC. The 126K that left the City and State have left for good and then does not even include the tens of thousands that have left since July, which will really be an eye opener. The fact is that while higher salaries usually offset the higher taxes for NYC residents, they have come to find that NYC and NYS need them more then they need the city or state. Below is an example of everything that is wrong with places like NYC and NYS, high-income New Yorkers pay the majority of state income taxes (while ironically using the least amount of Gov't services), whereby taxing the rich will solve all financial problems or at least in theory. What they don't realize that is by taxing those making 200k and making them accountable for 63 percent of personal tax revenue, it ends up hurting them even more when those people leave. Now you have even less number of high income earners paying the lion's share, which then gets passed onto the next tax bracket, which is the upper middle class, who then begin to feel the squeeze, decide they have options, and the leave as well, and the burden moves onto the lower middle class. It is a vicious cycle that is really starting to rear it's ugly head in places like New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. People have a list of so many other states to choose from and once they have had enough, they pack up and take their disposable income with the. That hurts local businesses and eventually corporate businesses, who will then fell the burden of offsetting the income tax deficits. It is not going to get any better either, with the 1.9 Trillion stimulus package will come higher federal taxes which will make individuals question even further what they are doing in cities and states with high local tax burdens. I wish NYC the best of luck. A truly great city that at one time was the envy of all, but now has been reduced to being the model for what not to do.

Income - % of Filers - % of Liability
$0 – $49,999 64.1% 2.8%
$50,000 – $99,999 19.7% 14.8%
$100,000 – $199,999 11.1% 20.0%
$200,000 + 5.2% 62.8%


where is your proof that 126k people left NYC/NYS for good?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 023477001/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -york-city

Oh and I thought I would throw in the latest article which shows how daft the politicians are. Increase taxes on the rich, so they can speed up the population decline. "The proposal would increase the top income tax rate from 8.82 percent rate for single filers earning more than $1 million and couples earning more than $2 million to 9.85 percent."

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/ny-lawmaker ... -new-taxes
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:07 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
JetBlue is one of many companies looking to move out. Companies have options. People have options. That is what is lost on politicians. Culture and the arts are great in NYC, but like everything, it costs money, and many residents have said it not worth paying for. There is a reason that New York lost 126,000 people between July 2019 and 2020 and believe me it was not all Covid related. In fact most of it was unrelated to Covid. Granted residents left to get away from some pretty draconian restrictions last Spring, but they worked remote in a neighboring state while maintaining a residence in NYC. The 126K that left the City and State have left for good and then does not even include the tens of thousands that have left since July, which will really be an eye opener. The fact is that while higher salaries usually offset the higher taxes for NYC residents, they have come to find that NYC and NYS need them more then they need the city or state. Below is an example of everything that is wrong with places like NYC and NYS, high-income New Yorkers pay the majority of state income taxes (while ironically using the least amount of Gov't services), whereby taxing the rich will solve all financial problems or at least in theory. What they don't realize that is by taxing those making 200k and making them accountable for 63 percent of personal tax revenue, it ends up hurting them even more when those people leave. Now you have even less number of high income earners paying the lion's share, which then gets passed onto the next tax bracket, which is the upper middle class, who then begin to feel the squeeze, decide they have options, and the leave as well, and the burden moves onto the lower middle class. It is a vicious cycle that is really starting to rear it's ugly head in places like New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. People have a list of so many other states to choose from and once they have had enough, they pack up and take their disposable income with the. That hurts local businesses and eventually corporate businesses, who will then fell the burden of offsetting the income tax deficits. It is not going to get any better either, with the 1.9 Trillion stimulus package will come higher federal taxes which will make individuals question even further what they are doing in cities and states with high local tax burdens. I wish NYC the best of luck. A truly great city that at one time was the envy of all, but now has been reduced to being the model for what not to do.

Income - % of Filers - % of Liability
$0 – $49,999 64.1% 2.8%
$50,000 – $99,999 19.7% 14.8%
$100,000 – $199,999 11.1% 20.0%
$200,000 + 5.2% 62.8%


where is your proof that 126k people left NYC/NYS for good?


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 023477001/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -york-city

Oh and I thought I would throw in the latest article which shows how daft the politicians are. Increase taxes on the rich, so they can speed up the population decline. "The proposal would increase the top income tax rate from 8.82 percent rate for single filers earning more than $1 million and couples earning more than $2 million to 9.85 percent."

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/ny-lawmaker ... -new-taxes


Most of the people moving out is due to how expensive it is to live in NY and how long the commute time is. Keep in mind that a lot of immigrants move into NY/NJ area both legal/illegal that make NY even more crowded and expensive to live in. Weather NY metro area population actually is declining is hard to say. The rest of your commentary is very slanted toward a libertarian point of view which doesn't reflect majority of exodus.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:24 am

Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.


A, perhaps the, major capitalistic center of the entire world is socialist!!! Someone must have heard that on Fox.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:36 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Lavdumper wrote:
NY is no longer business friendly - and it hasn't been for a long time. It is largely socialist and progressive in terms of policies, and cost of living for the average HQ employee is so much higher than many other competing locations. For those employees who would want to stay in NY, perhaps working remotely will be an option - but you will still pay NY taxes while working from home. Moving to Florida is like getting a 10% raise with no state income taxes.

I think the decision would be a no-brainer. Go to a business-friendly state with nice weather (most of the time), which attracts talent and offers a lower cost of living. As mentioned, there is a North-to-South migration already happening to the Sun Belt and it would not surprise me if JB made the jump as well since they already have significant operations in FL. I would bet that FL is working on an incentive package to bring them down as well.


A, perhaps the, major capitalistic center of the entire world is socialist!!! Someone must have heard that on Fox.

There is an acceptable cost curve for any business. Zoom tore apart the myth that a NYC HQ was required. Suddenly policies that were tolerable are too expensive. Suddenly progressive taxes seem socialist.

The reality is, jobs just became more mobile and companies, in particular airlines, must cut costs.

Lightsaber
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:06 am

Rents are down in Manhattan. As things settle out we will be able to tell just how mobile jobs are. I have not doubt that they are more mobile than thought possible a year ago, but just how much, the market will tell.
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