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jfklganyc
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B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:58 pm

[https://www.nypost.com/2021/03/16/jetblue-weighs-moving-some-nyc-jobs-to-florida/amp/ [/quote]


Well, we have been down this road before, but B6 sent a memo to staff today that indicates it may move staff from NYC to Florida.

Citing vacancy rates and hybrid work, the company has options.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:04 pm

Isn't this like the 3rd time or so that they've done this song/dance?

What concession do they want from NY governance now? :irked:
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:11 pm

Well, they can definitely get lower lease in NYC from this. No reason to stay in LIC. If I'm them, I'd do what every other major firms in NYC does. Open a second office in NJ or Westchester or CT, move to s smaller space in Manhattan or Queens and pay ridiculously low rent. And of course, continue to expand office in Orlando and South Florida so those who want to live out there can do so. They'd be stupid to lose skilled employees because those employees don't want to move to Florida.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:16 pm

The senior execs anticipating big stock option payouts won't stay in NYC - they'll go to Florida for the income tax break. It leaves NYC a career backwater.
 
leader1
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
Well, they can definitely get lower lease in NYC from this. No reason to stay in LIC. If I'm them, I'd do what every other major firms in NYC does. Open a second office in NJ or Westchester or CT, move to s smaller space in Manhattan or Queens and pay ridiculously low rent. And of course, continue to expand office in Orlando and South Florida so those who want to live out there can do so. They'd be stupid to lose skilled employees because those employees don't want to move to Florida.


That's exactly what happened last time they tried this - lots of skilled employees threatened to quit if they were forced to relocate. That played a role in JetBlue staying last time, not to mention they were worried about the talent pool in Florida. Will this time be any different? I don't know because the pandemic has really ravaged the city. On the other hand, it has never been a better time to get a good deal on commercial real estate in NYC and Cuomo will be desperate for a deal that makes him look good.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:32 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Isn't this like the 3rd time or so that they've done this song/dance?

What concession do they want from NY governance now? :irked:


This sounds like another company I know. “If you don’t give up your pension accrual (while I increase mine), we’ll build the 777X in (fill in the blank).”
 
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STT757
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:40 pm

Lake Nona is where they should move, plenty of young talent.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:44 pm

I think it is a good chance to build a new hub and move their back offices to the northwest Florida
 
LAXBUR
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:50 pm

Unless NYC isn’t a big priority now, I’m not sure moving out would be a great image booster. It’d be like Alaska moving to Arizona. But then again NYers wouldn’t really care?
 
bravotango75
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:52 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Isn't this like the 3rd time or so that they've done this song/dance?

What concession do they want from NY governance now? :irked:

Freedom
I would say move to BOS, but it's not that much better here.
 
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ua900
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:54 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Well, we have been down this road before, but B6 sent a memo to staff today that indicates it may move staff from NYC to Florida.

Citing vacancy rates and hybrid work, the company has options.

I heard on several threads here that NYC has emptied out over the past year in favor of nearby places, or even folks temporarily moving to places like FL. Permanent work from anywhere in the US for some company employees could become a reality. Lots of debates among CEOs right now about when and how folks should return to offices and lots of employees saying they never want to return to offices, so I'm not surprised to hear airlines exploring their options, just like many other companies do. One less cost for the company in terms of office space, and less time and money spent by employees on commuting as long as they are able to log off on time. Good for B6 to test the waters when the opportunity arises.

tphuang wrote:
Well, they can definitely get lower lease in NYC from this. No reason to stay in LIC. If I'm them, I'd do what every other major firms in NYC does. Open a second office in NJ or Westchester or CT, move to s smaller space in Manhattan or Queens and pay ridiculously low rent. And of course, continue to expand office in Orlando and South Florida so those who want to live out there can do so. They'd be stupid to lose skilled employees because those employees don't want to move to Florida.

Seeking favorable terms with NYC seems somewhat reminiscent of UA at ORD when they did Willis Tower and even the brief merger consideration of doing IAH over ORD for their WHQ. I recall that 9/11 also caused lots of companies w/o prior presence in NJ to move parts of their operations there, one of my former employers moved partially to Secaucus for example while still maintaining representative office space on Broadway. As far as Florida / further afield, it's not bad to give people options to save on money or taxes if their role allows for being based further away.

MIflyer12 wrote:
The senior execs anticipating big stock option payouts won't stay in NYC - they'll go to Florida for the income tax break. It leaves NYC a career backwater.

My view as well. All of my current company's sales leadership is based in Texas, not in say California or NYC where we also have large offices. High state taxes and high COLA are shunned by folks who owe a lot of their income to options or commission-type pay.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:54 pm

STT757 wrote:
Lake Nona is where they should move, plenty of young talent.


Really throughout the Orlando area.

I'm in the process of looking for jobs in the Orlando and Tampa areas and get out of New York. It's only going to get worse too - rent might be cheaper now than it's been in a long time, but taxes in New York are only going to keep going up and up. There are plenty of people like me (mid-30s professional) in this area that will happily leave for the better weather and no taxes that Florida has to offer. I'll take the occasional hurricane over a blizzard (this winter was the last straw for me).
 
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sunking737
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:00 pm

Warm weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing...No brainier
 
chonetsao
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:00 pm

I will believe in it when it happens.
 
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jaybird
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:02 pm

I don't think this is unique to JetBlue. Every company is looking at all the empty office space they have and what to do with it now that many know people can work from home and be productive. My employer included. Overhead is a big expense and it makes sense to reevaluate office space requirements.
 
johns624
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:22 pm

sunking737 wrote:
Warm weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing...No brainier
Hot weather, high humidity, hurricanes, bugs, snakes, gators. You're right, it's a no brainer. Florida, where between the coast road and the water is great but the other side of the road is Alabama...
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pm

This isn't just about rent and office space. This is really about state income taxes. I'm honestly not trying to become political - really - but let's get real, here. New York City and New York State income taxes aren't coming down anytime soon. Indeed, they're likely to rise. Absent some sweetheart deal, why would Jetblue choose to remain and be taxed at those higher rates? Also, its fairly assured that federal corporate tax rates will rise soon, too, so moving to tax friendly Florida would help to offset those projected federal rate hikes... Smart business, if you ask me, and another wake-up call to the folks in New York City and State that raising taxes isn't necessarily conducive to good business or revenue generation. No one in power there appears to have ever heard of the Laffer Curve.

Also, no one is saying that Jetblue would totally abandon New York City, anymore that Alaska Airlines abandoned the state of Alaska by headquartering in Seattle. They'd still serve the state, but would have their headquarters in another state. Being headquartered in Seattle hasn't prevented Alaska Airlines from painting salmon and other Alaskan motifs on its planes, for example. The connection would still remain.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:26 pm

There's already thousands of NY'ers moving to Florida daily, mine as well add to that. Jokes aside, the young talent is near Tampa. There are some very decent affluent unincorporated parts of Hillsborough County that aren't in Tampa city limits.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:37 pm

johns624 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Warm weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing...No brainier
Hot weather, high humidity, hurricanes, bugs, snakes, gators. You're right, it's a no brainer. Florida, where between the coast road and the water is great but the other side of the road is Alabama...


Like it is a bad thing....
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The senior execs anticipating big stock option payouts won't stay in NYC - they'll go to Florida for the income tax break. It leaves NYC a career backwater.


I think you'd need to be making several million from stock options to be willing to make such a move. Most people that I've seen move away from NY area do it for more than just tax reasons unless their taxed income is at such a high level. And the number of people at that level is not many.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-a-return

Most people moved to NJ and CT. And companies are now following their employees with offices in those areas.

Aptivaboy wrote:
This isn't just about rent and office space. This is really about state income taxes. I'm honestly not trying to become political - really - but let's get real, here. New York City and New York State income taxes aren't coming down anytime soon. Indeed, they're likely to rise. Absent some sweetheart deal, why would Jetblue choose to remain and be taxed at those higher rates? Also, its fairly assured that federal corporate tax rates will rise soon, too, so moving to tax friendly Florida would help to offset those projected federal rate hikes... Smart business, if you ask me, and another wake-up call to the folks in New York City and State that raising taxes isn't necessarily conducive to good business or revenue generation. No one in power there appears to have ever heard of the Laffer Curve.


You are conflating things here. Do you have an issue with state income tax or corporate tax. JetBlue shouldn't care about state income tax, but it should care about corporate tax. For the latter, I'm sure these postures will allow them to get a lot of tax breaks to stay in NY area and also get really sweetheart deal on new lease.

For the former, people who socially liberal and like the art/restaurants/nightlife/culture of NY might not want to move to a red state. Why is this so hard to understand? If I move to Florida, it will have nothing to do with taxes and entirely to do with wanting to go to warmer weather. If you want to get a little lower income taxes, you can always move to CT or NJ.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:28 am

They may have faked it before but I bet they are serious this time. It's about more then taxes and rent saved. All of the new hires will all be paid florida salaries not NYC cost of living necessary salaries. It's a time fleeing ny won't be a PR nightmare.
 
ty97
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:31 am

If Jetblue wants to go I say let them. But is likely posturing for a deal, again.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:48 am

It seems to me like you could attract more talent by moving to Ft. Lauderdale. The cost of living is lower than NYC (though for how long is anybody's guess), and there are people working for Spirit and the cruise lines there who could contribute their expertise to Jetblue. In NYC, the area talent poll for airline management is smaller and older, and people may avoid applying to NYC because they would need to spend a fortune on housing. NYC is no longer as appealing as it used to be, and a lot of people from there are heading south.
 
deltairlines
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:52 am

ty97 wrote:
If Jetblue wants to go I say let them. But is likely posturing for a deal, again.


It's absolutely posturing for a deal. It's what every publicly-traded company has an obligation to its shareholders to do.

As said, a lot of people are moving from NYC to New Jersey and Connecticut (as well as Florida, as I am doing). That being said, my family is in the process of putting our house (in one of the more wealthy suburbs in the state) - we have quickly learned that there's a big market for people from New York City that are wanting houses in the ballpark of what we're putting it on the market for - and in a lot of cases, they can pay straight cash (and our house is in the high-six figures). A lot of people in New York City have family ties to the area, and they don't want to give it up and move 1000 miles south.

End of the day, New York (both City and State) have a lot that they will have to pay for in the coming years - a lot of their financial obligations simply can't just go poof. New York (with it's already high tax rates) has indicated that taxes aren't going down (and they're likely going up). Joe Biden has hinted that he wants to increase corporate taxes as well.

JetBlue is in an industry that has been amongst the hardest hit by Covid - tourism dried up last year (though is starting to come back) and business travel has taken a brutal hit. Airlines however aren't necessarily locked into having their headquarters in one specific place. They already have large interests in Florida; it would be irresponsible for them to not look at the benefits of moving (and then weigh the costs of whether or not they would be able to retain a large percentage of their corporate support staff that might have to move).
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:15 am

The New York Post has been pushing the narrative of everything moving to Florida during the pandemic almost every day. Last week they did an article about how people from NYC who moved to Florida want to return. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/wall-stre ... to-return/

The truth is B6 has done this for many years to try to get attention and negotiating power from Schumer, Cuomo and the Port Authority. While I believe they have hinted at to moving some departments to Orlando in the future, they hire many skilled corporate and analyst roles that cannot be filled in Florida and definitely some of those positions will remain in NYC.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:15 am

Do you have an issue with state income tax or corporate tax.


No, I'm merely trying to explain what may be Jetblue's position. Given the large number of corporations leaving or contemplating the Tri State Area this isn't me conflating anything. Its reality... Colt, Pratt & Whitney (United Technologies), even the New York Stock Exchange have made loud, public overtures about leaving if significant changes to the tax structure are made. An airline like Jetblue, with high operating and capital costs, would be remiss not to, "have an issue," with tax rates.

JetBlue shouldn't care about state income tax, but it should care about corporate tax.


New York's current corporate tax rate is 6.5%. That is essentially the income tax (the tax on corporate income) that Jetblue will have to pay if they are headquartered and domiciled in the state. I tend to think that at 6.5% (26.1% combined state and federal rate), Jetblue certainly cares about that already high rate increasing. They'd be doing their shareholders a disservice if they didn't! They have a duty to at least try to garner a better return to their investors. During these times of reduced travel demand and lower incomes, Jetblue and other airlines will be searching for ways to cut costs and hopefully generate better returns. Moving to a more tax friendly state represents an obvious way of doing so, nothing more. It isn't political. It's business.

For the former, people who socially liberal and like the art/restaurants/nightlife/culture of NY might not want to move to a red state. Why is this so hard to understand? If I move to Florida, it will have nothing to do with taxes and entirely to do with wanting to go to warmer weather. If you want to get a little lower income taxes, you can always move to CT or NJ.


Then, they do not have to move, assuming that Jetblue does. They may be able to work remotely. Or not. If Jetblue does move, it will be an individual employee's choice to stay or go. Its called self-determination. Also, the taxes in Connecticut and New Jersey aren't all that lower, as the current exodus from both of those states to Florida, Texas, and the Carolinas in particular, attests. This article from Forbes about the stampede away from high tax states like California and New York may be illuminating and educational: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/ ... fornia/?sh

For myself, I tend to view this as a negotiating ploy from Jetblue to work out some sort of a sweetheart deal, some form of a tax break. I do not believe that they want to leave New York. But... One never knows.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:22 am

WSJ just today had a story about how COVID has changed NYC in 2020.

Some stark numbers.

> 30.303 deaths
> 187,000 households moved out of the city
> 626,400 private-sector jobs lost
> Downtown office occupancy down 84%
> MTA daily ridership down 70%

https://www.wsj.com/story/the-numbers-a ... 4?mod=e2tw

For better or worse NYC is being hollowed out, and as companies are becoming ever more willing to have hybrid or distributed workforces it probably makes ever less sense to be located or tied down to real estate in large expensive metro areas like NYC.
 
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adambrau
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:38 am

STT757 wrote:
Lake Nona is where they should move, plenty of young talent.


Haha yeah like my 80 something mother!
 
Brickell305
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:44 am

I think people are underestimating how expensive living in Florida can be once you factor in things like car and home insurance. We pay some of the highest rates in the US on both. Also, Florida is a red state yes, but let's not act like it is Mississippi or Wyoming. the cities to which B6 would move its HQ to (FLL/MIA, MCO, etc.) both have more in common with NYC than they do with Pensacola and Destin. Quite frankly though, FL has gone through this song and dance several times with several industries, where some notable company says they're considering moving to Miami from New York or San Francisco but it never materializes.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:49 am

johns624 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Warm weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing...No brainier
Hot weather, high humidity, hurricanes, bugs, snakes, gators. You're right, it's a no brainer. Florida, where between the coast road and the water is great but the other side of the road is Alabama...

Lol I grew up in Houston. I can handle the more frequent gators and hurricanes for an airline HQ job in Florida.

Orlando makes the most sense since they have their bigger FL hub in MCO AND their training center.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:05 am

LIC is building up incredibly quickly and I believe they don't own the building they're headquartered in. It's not surprising that they would be looking to move out. Rents in some parts of LIC have surpassed many parts of Manhattan as the QoL for young professionals there is really nice.

I highly doubt personally that they would be moving out of NYC but to possibly somewhere in Brooklyn or Manhattan. Especially given so many companies in the city are down-scaling. Given the amount of office development that is occurring in Hudson Yards and with demand being as soft as it is now, personally a move there might be good for them.
 
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:36 am

janders wrote:
WSJ just today had a story about how COVID has changed NYC in 2020.

Some stark numbers.

> 30.303 deaths
> 187,000 households moved out of the city
> 626,400 private-sector jobs lost
> Downtown office occupancy down 84%
> MTA daily ridership down 70%

https://www.wsj.com/story/the-numbers-a ... 4?mod=e2tw

For better or worse NYC is being hollowed out, and as companies are becoming ever more willing to have hybrid or distributed workforces it probably makes ever less sense to be located or tied down to real estate in large expensive metro areas like NYC.


It will be interesting to see what happens in NYC. I will never leave - even with the horrible last year the city is now not so bad as many make out here. Personally the suburbs or Florida is not for me. I enjoy not having a car and walking places. I take the subway from Manhattan to JFK every day I work. I've had both my vaccine shots and been out twice to amazing restaurants in the last couple of weeks. Spring/summer are on the way as are the number of those vaccinated. I can see things being rough for a couple of years but just like the 70's and early 80's when folks were jumping ship, the city rebounded. As it did after 9/11. NYC got hit hardest by Covid because we got hit first and the medical community had to learn to reduce death rates with a mysterious virus. A year ago things were unsettled. And certainly I have a lot of friends who have left. And died. Jetblue can move management out of state as they are obliged to their shareholders, I get it. No airlines are headquartered here anymore anyway and it's been like that since Pan Am. NYC will always be a love it or hate it proposition to different people. But as the cyclicality of life re-calibrates, people will be getting back on planes. And want to live again in the Apple.
 
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malaysia
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:33 am

johns624 wrote:
sunking737 wrote:
Warm weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing...No brainier
Hot weather, high humidity, hurricanes, bugs, snakes, gators. You're right, it's a no brainer. Florida, where between the coast road and the water is great but the other side of the road is Alabama...


and driving on that road is more dangerous in Florida.... :P
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:10 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
New York's current corporate tax rate is 6.5%. That is essentially the income tax (the tax on corporate income) that Jetblue will have to pay if they are headquartered and domiciled in the state. I tend to think that at 6.5% (26.1% combined state and federal rate), Jetblue certainly cares about that already high rate increasing.



The combined state and federal corporate tax rate in New York now stands at 26.1 percent, representing a tie for 23rd highest levy among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, according to a new study from the Tax Foundation.

You were thinking that New York State ranked high among corporate income taxes? It does not. See Iowa, NJ, PA, MN, IL and Alaska.

Florida's Federal + state tax rate is 24.6%, and let's not pretend that is significantly different, as state tax payments are deductible from Federal taxes.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/new_yor ... 7fdea.html
 
11C
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:20 am

I realize that in the Barger era the “study” of where to base the company was a very public exercise designed to wrangle a good deal from NY, but there are very real reasons to move parts of the headquarters out of NY. It has been advocated by certain departments within the company, and it will inevitably happen, in my opinion. It will likely be a split, with some functions remaining in NY. To view this as purely posturing is just uninformed hot air.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:28 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Do you have an issue with state income tax or corporate tax.


No, I'm merely trying to explain what may be Jetblue's position. Given the large number of corporations leaving or contemplating the Tri State Area this isn't me conflating anything. Its reality... Colt, Pratt & Whitney (United Technologies), even the New York Stock Exchange have made loud, public overtures about leaving if significant changes to the tax structure are made. An airline like Jetblue, with high operating and capital costs, would be remiss not to, "have an issue," with tax rates.

as the other poster said, combined corporate taxes aren't that different between NY and Florida. Some financial exchanges have some employees moving to Florida, because decentralized offices are now very feasible due to decentralized offices.

JetBlue shouldn't care about state income tax, but it should care about corporate tax.


New York's current corporate tax rate is 6.5%. That is essentially the income tax (the tax on corporate income) that Jetblue will have to pay if they are headquartered and domiciled in the state. I tend to think that at 6.5% (26.1% combined state and federal rate), Jetblue certainly cares about that already high rate increasing. They'd be doing their shareholders a disservice if they didn't! They have a duty to at least try to garner a better return to their investors. During these times of reduced travel demand and lower incomes, Jetblue and other airlines will be searching for ways to cut costs and hopefully generate better returns. Moving to a more tax friendly state represents an obvious way of doing so, nothing more. It isn't political. It's business.

again, the corporate taxes aren't that different and can easily be made up by NYS offering tax breaks.

For the former, people who socially liberal and like the art/restaurants/nightlife/culture of NY might not want to move to a red state. Why is this so hard to understand? If I move to Florida, it will have nothing to do with taxes and entirely to do with wanting to go to warmer weather. If you want to get a little lower income taxes, you can always move to CT or NJ.


Then, they do not have to move, assuming that Jetblue does. They may be able to work remotely. Or not. If Jetblue does move, it will be an individual employee's choice to stay or go. Its called self-determination. Also, the taxes in Connecticut and New Jersey aren't all that lower, as the current exodus from both of those states to Florida, Texas, and the Carolinas in particular, attests. This article from Forbes about the stampede away from high tax states like California and New York may be illuminating and educational: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/ ... fornia/?sh

For myself, I tend to view this as a negotiating ploy from Jetblue to work out some sort of a sweetheart deal, some form of a tax break. I do not believe that they want to leave New York. But... One never knows.


If majority of your employees don't want to move, you are not going to move.
I already posted an article about how only the really rich moved to Florida. Not any different than previous years. What has happened is that firms have opened up secondary offices in Florida to allow those who want the lower taxes to move there. JetBlue already has offices in Orlando and South Florida. Those who want lower taxes can just transfer.

The reality is that the majority of people that did move out of NYC went to NJ, upstate NY and CT. Outside of that, they moved to Boston, DC, California and Florida. Most people are not making decisions on taxes alone, but rather lifestyle.

As long as skilled labour wants to stay in NYC, JetBlue will be better served staying around somewhere here. And this is a great time for them to get lower long term leases.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/people-mov ... 1615463911
Florida had its slowest year of population growth since 2014.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:21 am

asuflyer wrote:
The New York Post has been pushing the narrative of everything moving to Florida during the pandemic almost every day. Last week they did an article about how people from NYC who moved to Florida want to return. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/wall-stre ... to-return/

The truth is B6 has done this for many years to try to get attention and negotiating power from Schumer, Cuomo and the Port Authority. While I believe they have hinted at to moving some departments to Orlando in the future, they hire many skilled corporate and analyst roles that cannot be filled in Florida and definitely some of those positions will remain in NYC.


What roles can’t be filled in Florida?

No other airline has a headquarters in New York.

You are pushing an outdated view of Florida. Orlando is a large city now with some of the biggest entertainment venues in the world. If Disney and Universal are there you can believe there is plenty of talent to go around: corporate, artistic, and customer based. Furthermore, Florida is the defacto aviation HQ of the US. In terms of talent from an aviation pool, it doesn’t get much better than Florida.

I’m not saying they should move, but let’s not make it sound like Florida is a backwater from 30 years ago… It is one of the largest states in the nation larger than New York
 
micstatic
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:45 am

agree with jfklganyc. Orlando has changed significantly for the better over the last 15 years. Many aviation professionals are in Florida now. As well as some of the best aviation college's in the country within a stones throw. While some say NYC always rebounds and that this is cyclical I'm not so sure. 9/11 or an economic downturn with crime is one thing. But in a decentralized environment where less companies even need offices NYC will suffer. And it's almost a chain reaction. The more that leave, the higher the tax deficit. Raise taxes even more, then more leave. I'm not sure how they will work this out. I know with our company it is always easy to attract entry level talent right out of college to work in our NYC office. But eventually they want to leave. More often than not they go somewhere in the sun belt. I can understand where some people are against jetblue leaving their new york office. But to me the move makes sense.
 
airbazar
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:26 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
This isn't just about rent and office space. This is really about state income taxes. I'm honestly not trying to become political - really - but let's get real, here.

People who make that kind of money don't pay list price for income tax. Heck I doubt most even have their official residence in NY. If income tax was all that mattered NY and CA wouldn't lead the list of states with most Fortune 500 companies. The single biggest reason driving out of state migration for common folks is housing costs (not taxes), which is why the majority of people who move out of NY, moves to NJ :) However and once again, housing costs are a none issue for corporate executives. Florida is not Texas. You'd think that with its low taxes Florida would be able to attract far more companies and better paying jobs than it does and yet Florida remains a backwater of the corporate world.
https://dqydj.com/average-income-by-sta ... rcentiles/
This is all about getting concessions, be it rent, corporate tax breaks, etc, and has nothing to do with personal state income tax. Every company does it and honestly, they wouldn't be a very well run company if they didn't at least try it.
 
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Boiler905
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The New York Post has been pushing the narrative of everything moving to Florida during the pandemic almost every day. Last week they did an article about how people from NYC who moved to Florida want to return. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/wall-stre ... to-return/

The truth is B6 has done this for many years to try to get attention and negotiating power from Schumer, Cuomo and the Port Authority. While I believe they have hinted at to moving some departments to Orlando in the future, they hire many skilled corporate and analyst roles that cannot be filled in Florida and definitely some of those positions will remain in NYC.


What roles can’t be filled in Florida?

No other airline has a headquarters in New York.

You are pushing an outdated view of Florida. Orlando is a large city now with some of the biggest entertainment venues in the world. If Disney and Universal are there you can believe there is plenty of talent to go around: corporate, artistic, and customer based. Furthermore, Florida is the defacto aviation HQ of the US. In terms of talent from an aviation pool, it doesn’t get much better than Florida.

I’m not saying they should move, but let’s not make it sound like Florida is a backwater from 30 years ago… It is one of the largest states in the nation larger than New York



Where's the data that proves the most talented employees prefer to work in NYC and the likes? There are plenty of talented professionals who would prefer to not live in NYC, so I don't think the threat of losing talent is significant enough to sway the decision here.

Even if it does, the amount of money B6 will save on rent and tax long-term will dwarf short-term salary increases to keep current employees (until they eventually move on from B6).

B6 employees in NYC would be lucky enough to keep their salaries the same after moving to Florida. B6 would owe generous relocation perks.

It's a brilliant move for B6 and its shareholders if they actually go through with this.
 
mcogator
Posts: 600
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:51 pm

adambrau wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Lake Nona is where they should move, plenty of young talent.


Haha yeah like my 80 something mother!

My 75 year old dad and 67 year old mother recently moved to Laureate Park in Lake Nona. The area is booming and their neighbors are mostly highly educated professionals. It's a great area, close enough to the beach, theme parks, and shopping. MCO is 7 miles away, and they're building a whole entertainment area to add on to phase one.
 
mcogator
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 am

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:53 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The New York Post has been pushing the narrative of everything moving to Florida during the pandemic almost every day. Last week they did an article about how people from NYC who moved to Florida want to return. https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/wall-stre ... to-return/

The truth is B6 has done this for many years to try to get attention and negotiating power from Schumer, Cuomo and the Port Authority. While I believe they have hinted at to moving some departments to Orlando in the future, they hire many skilled corporate and analyst roles that cannot be filled in Florida and definitely some of those positions will remain in NYC.


What roles can’t be filled in Florida?

No other airline has a headquarters in New York.

You are pushing an outdated view of Florida. Orlando is a large city now with some of the biggest entertainment venues in the world. If Disney and Universal are there you can believe there is plenty of talent to go around: corporate, artistic, and customer based. Furthermore, Florida is the defacto aviation HQ of the US. In terms of talent from an aviation pool, it doesn’t get much better than Florida.

I’m not saying they should move, but let’s not make it sound like Florida is a backwater from 30 years ago… It is one of the largest states in the nation larger than New York



Where's the data that proves the most talented employees prefer to work in NYC and the likes? There are plenty of talented professionals who would prefer to not live in NYC, so I don't think the threat of losing talent is significant enough to sway the decision here.

Even if it does, the amount of money B6 will save on rent and tax long-term will dwarf short-term salary increases to keep current employees (until they eventually move on from B6).

B6 employees in NYC would be lucky enough to keep their salaries the same after moving to Florida. B6 would owe generous relocation perks.

It's a brilliant move for B6 and its shareholders if they actually go through with this.

Disney employees can move from Burbank to Orlando and keep their California salaries. Of course the only ones who want to are those with kids, as my friends in LA who work for Disney wouldn't even dream of it, and we all grew up in Florida and went to UF.
 
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STT757
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
Well, they can definitely get lower lease in NYC from this. No reason to stay in LIC. If I'm them, I'd do what every other major firms in NYC does. Open a second office in NJ or Westchester or CT, move to s smaller space in Manhattan or Queens and pay ridiculously low rent. And of course, continue to expand office in Orlando and South Florida so those who want to live out there can do so. They'd be stupid to lose skilled employees because those employees don't want to move to Florida.


They could pull a Pfizer, who kept their headquarters in Manhattan but moved most of it's jobs to New Jersey after it's merger with Madison NJ based Wyeth.

https://www.nj.com/business/2010/05/pfizer_layoff_new_york_city_mo.html

I could see the City and State of New York working with developers to get B6 a prominent high profile spot someplace in Manhattan for a Corporate office, while moving most staff from LIC to New Jersey, Connecticut or Florida. Makes great NY Dailynews headlines.

Goldman Sacks did the same thing, they have their corporate Headquarters in Manhattan next to the World Trade Center and their back office across the river in Jersey City. They even have their own private ferry to shuttle workers back and forth.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:02 pm

Lot of talk about taxes in Florida here, but no talk about income. The same job in FL will pay less than In NY. There is no free lunch. You will net the same or less. Companies relocate here often for that reason. They say low taxes, but what they mean is less labor costs. And the labor pool is a lot shallower.
 
mjzair
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 12:10 pm

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:07 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Lot of talk about taxes in Florida here, but no talk about income. The same job in FL will pay less than In NY. There is no free lunch. You will net the same or less. Companies relocate here often for that reason. They say low taxes, but what they mean is less labor costs. And the labor pool is a lot shallower.


Sure, but I would much rather be, let's say a Crew Scheduler making $15 an hour in Florida than $20 an hour in NYC. It will go much further down in Florida.
 
micstatic
Posts: 845
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:08 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Lot of talk about taxes in Florida here, but no talk about income. The same job in FL will pay less than In NY. There is no free lunch. You will net the same or less. Companies relocate here often for that reason. They say low taxes, but what they mean is less labor costs. And the labor pool is a lot shallower.


The labor pool is getting deeper. Look at the net gain of professional aviation jobs Florida has had last 15 years.
But you are right labor costs are lower. Housing costs are lower. Taxes are lower.
 
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flymco753
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:25 pm

Housing costs aren't going to stay lower for much longer. The 3 bed 2 bathroom home that my father owns that I grew up in was purchased new in 1994 for $140,000 now appraised at almost $300,000. It appraised for $210,000 only 4 years ago.
 
micstatic
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:33 pm

but still a heck of a lot more affordable than the NYC metro area.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:40 pm

An airline HQ is not really “aviation jobs.” It is Fortune 500 jobs, with a travel industry focus. Airlines usually hire for their “aviation roles” outside the Headquarters. There is nothing to fly at HQ.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 267
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Re: B6 to Staff: Looking to move HQ to Florida

Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:38 pm

tphuang wrote:
Well, they can definitely get lower lease in NYC from this. No reason to stay in LIC. If I'm them, I'd do what every other major firms in NYC does. Open a second office in NJ or Westchester or CT, move to s smaller space in Manhattan or Queens and pay ridiculously low rent. And of course, continue to expand office in Orlando and South Florida so those who want to live out there can do so. They'd be stupid to lose skilled employees because those employees don't want to move to Florida.


I don’t know if having 3 offices is really efficient either though. In addition, you are paying a labor premium keeping staff in the northeast due to the higher cost of living.

Also one thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of employees are easily replaceable. There might be some who have really unique or special skill sets that you will want to keep and, under those situations, they can work from home. The vast majority are easily replaceable. May sound harsh, but true.

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