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Scotron12
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Updated: IAG has reopened a fresh competition for narrowbody jets

Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:30 am

While not confirning any active negotiations with Boeing on their LOI for 200 signed by WW in 2019, CEO Luis Gallago said that the B737MAX was a "very good aircraft" and one that had to be "considered for the future".

Doesn't seem as eager as WW was on the B737MAX. Depends on recovery. IAG are hoping around 2023 for pax numbers to rebound to pre-covid levels.

IAG are looking to replace 225 SH aircraft 2023-2027.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... et-renewal
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
Opus99
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:38 am

I think the difference between WW and Luis is that he’ll allow Airbus bid. WW did not want to. But This is the first time Boeing has been invited to bid since the 737 classics at BA. They will be ruthless
 
BrianDromey
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:18 am

Opus99 wrote:
I think the difference between WW and Luis is that he’ll allow Airbus bid. WW did not want to. But This is the first time Boeing has been invited to bid since the 737 classics at BA. They will be ruthless


Worth remembering that IAG will operate the 737NG and 737MAX when they integrate AirEuropa into the group. This is a significant barrier to the 737 being removed from the group and IAG will have real-world data of how the 737 works in their operations and route networks. It will be a fascinating competition with the MAX and NEO already in the fleet, both CFM and PW power options also.
Replacing 200+ narrow bodies they could split the orders, could there even be a role for the A220? Will there really be a need for the sizeable A319 fleet to grow to A320/1 size?
 
FluidFlow
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:23 am

Opus99 wrote:
I think the difference between WW and Luis is that he’ll allow Airbus bid. WW did not want to. But This is the first time Boeing has been invited to bid since the 737 classics at BA. They will be ruthless


It is important to note BA!=IAG.

Just because of the operations out of LHR and the group strategy BA and IB will stay Airbus while the other entities will partially be equipped with 737s. Depending on how the group goes forward with all the brands, the low cost brand could be equipped with 737-8200s as they are perfect for the European market. For the "full service" carriers with main operations out of MAD and LHR, I see no chance forward for the 737 just because the bulk loading has massive operational disadvantages especially for T5 at LHR.
 
Opus99
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:26 am

FluidFlow wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
I think the difference between WW and Luis is that he’ll allow Airbus bid. WW did not want to. But This is the first time Boeing has been invited to bid since the 737 classics at BA. They will be ruthless


It is important to note BA!=IAG.

Just because of the operations out of LHR and the group strategy BA and IB will stay Airbus while the other entities will partially be equipped with 737s. Depending on how the group goes forward with all the brands, the low cost brand could be equipped with 737-8200s as they are perfect for the European market. For the "full service" carriers with main operations out of MAD and LHR, I see no chance forward for the 737 just because the bulk loading has massive operational disadvantages especially for T5 at LHR.

The MAX was slated for LGW at BA though, not LHR. They also wanted them for vueling expansion and replacement. I used BA because that was the last time they were involved or any of the airlines did that matter were involved with a 737
 
FluidFlow
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:30 am

Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
I think the difference between WW and Luis is that he’ll allow Airbus bid. WW did not want to. But This is the first time Boeing has been invited to bid since the 737 classics at BA. They will be ruthless


It is important to note BA!=IAG.

Just because of the operations out of LHR and the group strategy BA and IB will stay Airbus while the other entities will partially be equipped with 737s. Depending on how the group goes forward with all the brands, the low cost brand could be equipped with 737-8200s as they are perfect for the European market. For the "full service" carriers with main operations out of MAD and LHR, I see no chance forward for the 737 just because the bulk loading has massive operational disadvantages especially for T5 at LHR.

The MAX was slated for LGW at BA though, not LHR. They also wanted them for vueling expansion and replacement. I used BA because that was the last time they were involved or any of the airlines did that matter were involved with a 737


The problem at the moment is, we have no Idea what the LGW operation for BA will look like in the future. We might even see a full retreat of the short haul offer. Maybe with all economy 737-8200s BA could compete but do they really want to tarnish their own brand with LGW operations. It would be more sensible to actually "outsource" LGW short haul through another IAG brand and keep BA out of it. So as I can see the 737 count growing in the group over the next years it seems a long shot to see it in BA colours, even less at IB as they are full Airbus at the moment and I haven't seen any indication that this could change soon.
 
Opus99
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:38 am

FluidFlow wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:

It is important to note BA!=IAG.

Just because of the operations out of LHR and the group strategy BA and IB will stay Airbus while the other entities will partially be equipped with 737s. Depending on how the group goes forward with all the brands, the low cost brand could be equipped with 737-8200s as they are perfect for the European market. For the "full service" carriers with main operations out of MAD and LHR, I see no chance forward for the 737 just because the bulk loading has massive operational disadvantages especially for T5 at LHR.

The MAX was slated for LGW at BA though, not LHR. They also wanted them for vueling expansion and replacement. I used BA because that was the last time they were involved or any of the airlines did that matter were involved with a 737


The problem at the moment is, we have no Idea what the LGW operation for BA will look like in the future. We might even see a full retreat of the short haul offer. Maybe with all economy 737-8200s BA could compete but do they really want to tarnish their own brand with LGW operations. It would be more sensible to actually "outsource" LGW short haul through another IAG brand and keep BA out of it. So as I can see the 737 count growing in the group over the next years it seems a long shot to see it in BA colours, even less at IB as they are full Airbus at the moment and I haven't seen any indication that this could change soon.

We could very well not see the the jet in BA colours no doubt but BA seems determined to remain there. There are still flights operating out of Gatwick daily albeit long haul. I’m not sure the future of gatwick but I don’t disagree with you anyway. But I’ve always questioned how a 21st century terminal like T5 cannot handle un containerised baggage? I’m assuming other terminals at LHR can
 
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seahawk
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:38 am

Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?
 
Opus99
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:42 am

seahawk wrote:
Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?

As much as that would be interesting to see. I don’t think it’s operationally efficient. I think the MAX will play a big role in IAGs fleet mix in the future but not completely but WW had said back in Jan 2019 that one of this biggest regrets as CEO was not doing business with Boeing on the short haul operations.

IAG has also allowed 50 options on the 320 family to expire at BA
 
guillermohs
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:49 am

seahawk wrote:
Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?


The group has been receiving brand new A320N and A321NX for the last three years, there's no way they are switching all single aisle operations to the MAX in the foreseeable future.

I'm sure IAG is seriously evaluating the MAX for LGW and BCN operations, however, transaction costs are high and VY does not have such a large fleet to justify a mixed operation.
 
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Polot
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:07 am

guillermohs wrote:

I'm sure IAG is seriously evaluating the MAX for LGW and BCN operations, however, transaction costs are high and VY does not have such a large fleet to justify a mixed operation.

VY’s fleet isn’t much smaller than BA’s narrow body fleet. In terms of fleet size they are the second largest IAG airline after BA.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:32 am

Opus99 wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
The MAX was slated for LGW at BA though, not LHR. They also wanted them for vueling expansion and replacement. I used BA because that was the last time they were involved or any of the airlines did that matter were involved with a 737


The problem at the moment is, we have no Idea what the LGW operation for BA will look like in the future. We might even see a full retreat of the short haul offer. Maybe with all economy 737-8200s BA could compete but do they really want to tarnish their own brand with LGW operations. It would be more sensible to actually "outsource" LGW short haul through another IAG brand and keep BA out of it. So as I can see the 737 count growing in the group over the next years it seems a long shot to see it in BA colours, even less at IB as they are full Airbus at the moment and I haven't seen any indication that this could change soon.

We could very well not see the the jet in BA colours no doubt but BA seems determined to remain there. There are still flights operating out of Gatwick daily albeit long haul. I’m not sure the future of gatwick but I don’t disagree with you anyway. But I’ve always questioned how a 21st century terminal like T5 cannot handle un containerised baggage? I’m assuming other terminals at LHR can


They can at T5 but it is inefficient because the terminal was built around containerised operation. Southwest could also have a second fleet type but it would be inefficient. If you optimised your system towards a special operation it will make everything else inefficient. This has benefits and drawbacks.

For LGW: BA long haul will stay, I just doubt short haul will come back the way it was, if it even comes back.
 
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seahawk
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:16 pm

guillermohs wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?


The group has been receiving brand new A320N and A321NX for the last three years, there's no way they are switching all single aisle operations to the MAX in the foreseeable future.

I'm sure IAG is seriously evaluating the MAX for LGW and BCN operations, however, transaction costs are high and VY does not have such a large fleet to justify a mixed operation.


200 frames seems a bit excessive for just Vueling and LGW.
 
RexBanner
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:23 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
The problem at the moment is, we have no Idea what the LGW operation for BA will look like in the future. We might even see a full retreat of the short haul offer. Maybe with all economy 737-8200s BA could compete but do they really want to tarnish their own brand with LGW operations. It would be more sensible to actually "outsource" LGW short haul through another IAG brand and keep BA out of it. So as I can see the 737 count growing in the group over the next years it seems a long shot to see it in BA colours, even less at IB as they are full Airbus at the moment and I haven't seen any indication that this could change soon.


Just a point of order, the slots at LGW are specifically BA slots, they’re not IAG slots.
 
guillermohs
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:58 pm

seahawk wrote:
guillermohs wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?


The group has been receiving brand new A320N and A321NX for the last three years, there's no way they are switching all single aisle operations to the MAX in the foreseeable future.

I'm sure IAG is seriously evaluating the MAX for LGW and BCN operations, however, transaction costs are high and VY does not have such a large fleet to justify a mixed operation.


200 frames seems a bit excessive for just Vueling and LGW.


The LOI was signed pre-pandemic, when IAG had big plans for LEVEL as well. Now that LEVEL is set to remain a marginal low-cost long haul airline from BCN the 200 MAX seem excessive just for BA and VY.
 
Antarius
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:05 pm

seahawk wrote:
guillermohs wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Why should they not switch all IAG single aisle ops to the MAX?


The group has been receiving brand new A320N and A321NX for the last three years, there's no way they are switching all single aisle operations to the MAX in the foreseeable future.

I'm sure IAG is seriously evaluating the MAX for LGW and BCN operations, however, transaction costs are high and VY does not have such a large fleet to justify a mixed operation.


200 frames seems a bit excessive for just Vueling and LGW.


It does now after COVID. Back in 2019, being delivered over several years, the order made sense for expansion plans.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:31 pm

The answer is, nobody really knows.

The LOI will have an expiry date, and its never been revealed in public when that is.

But there were several reasons for signing the LOI at the time;

(1) It was opportunistic, Boeing were reeling from the grounding. A blue chip customer signing up was a welcome bit of positive news.

(2) IAG didn’t want to end up like Ryanair or Southwest. They were pretty much a sole-supplier short haul fleet. The Airbus NEO backlog was huge. How do you seriously negotiate your next order when you basically have no other option but to stick with the incumbent supplier. You have no leverage on price or to secure good delivery slots. IAG had realised that across the group with BA/Iberia/Vueling/Aer Lings/Level there was room for 2 suppliers - same as at other airlines such as American and Delta.

It seems many think that the Max LOI was for extra capacity, but most of it would replace existing capacity. And the overreaching considerations were an amazing price, and avoiding ending up beholden to Airbus for the A320 family.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
VV
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:34 am

It has been a while IAG's commitment for 737 MAX was announced.
They haven't firmed the order so far.

Considering some other airlines like United and Ryanair show interest ordering more 737 MAX, do you think IAG will finally decide to firm their order to secure delivery slots or would they just drop the commitment and order A320neo instead?
 
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scbriml
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:14 am

Scotron12 wrote:
While not confirning any active negotiations with Boeing on their LOI for 200 signed by WW in 2019, CEO Luis Gallago said that the B737MAX was a "very good aircraft" and one that had to be "considered for the future".


Code for "Thanks, but we don't need them now."
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:21 am

VV wrote:
It has been a while IAG's commitment for 737 MAX was announced.
They haven't firmed the order so far.

Considering some other airlines like United and Ryanair show interest ordering more 737 MAX, do you think IAG will finally decide to firm their order to secure delivery slots or would they just drop the commitment and order A320neo instead?


In the current climate it'd be very strange for IAG to firm up the order, a big outlay on aircraft that are not desperately needed when the airline is struggling wouldn't go down well.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:40 am

Given that a sizeable proportion of that order was for LGW, which BA is considering closing I’m not surprised the LOI has not been firmed up. The exact numbers were never revealed but BA had 31 A32x at Gatwick according to Forbes. This would not have taken into account some wet leases to cover slots acquired at Gatwick, so a round figure of 40 would seem about right. Given that IAG is likely to be downsizing, rather than growing the short haul fleet and has considerable flexibility to retain the current fleet, renew leases and take A32xN, I don’t see the role for a 200 frame MAX order right now.
 
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keesje
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 am

Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/
 
VV
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:59 am

keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


I gess Airbus has now given all IAG wanted.

So is this a closed case and IAG will order 200 A320neo family instead?
 
AaronPMI
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:27 am

VV wrote:
keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


I gess Airbus has now given all IAG wanted.

So is this a closed case and IAG will order 200 A320neo family instead?


IAG operates about 370 A320 series and will still receive about 70 from the last order so I doubt they need anything in the 200 unit range.
 
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keesje
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:33 am

VV wrote:
keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


I gess Airbus has now given all IAG wanted.

So is this a closed case and IAG will order 200 A320neo family instead?


As long as IAG have more than 60 NEO's on order and the same number of A320/A321s parked, it doesn't seem a high priority to me.

For the 737MAX LOI, BA, Air Lingus and Iberia would have to return to bulk loading all European flights, which makes an interesting business case.

Image
https://tripbytrip.org/2021/06/10/flyin ... nt-page-1/
 
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Crosswind
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:55 am

keesje wrote:
As long as IAG have more than 60 NEO's on order and the same number of A320/A321s parked, it doesn't seem a high priority to me.

For the 737MAX LOI, BA, Air Lingus and Iberia would have to return to bulk loading all European flights, which makes an interesting business case.


The MAX LOI was mainly because IAG felt vulnerable to a sole-supplier (Airbus) for their short haul fleet, and also the very long lead time for A320neo deliveries.

The BA LGW Airbus fleet is already bulk loaded, being primarily a point-to-point leisure operation; the easier cargo loading and handling of connecting baggage isn’t quite so important. The MAX LOI at the time was stated to be for Level, Vueling and BA LGW, so as originally planned wouldn’t affect the BA LHR, Aer Lingus or Iberia A320neo operations.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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Polot
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:58 am

The bin issue is just a red herring. If airlines want the plane they will find a way to make it work. Note that many of the people who bring up the fact that the 737Max needs to be bulk loaded have no issues advocating for the A220 and especially future A220-500 variant.
 
VV
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:03 am

So, what should one conclude from your comments?

Does IAG's commitment to order 737 MAX still stand or are they going to drop it and order A320neo instead?
 
FluidFlow
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:08 am

VV wrote:
So, what should one conclude from your comments?

Is IAG's commitment to order 737 MAX still stands of are they going to drop it and order A320neo instead?


YOu know there is also the option to not order anything at all, especially if the stars seem to stand on consolidation instead of growth. There are still NEOs on order and tons of parked aircraft that are good for another decade. So chances are IAG will sit still for a few years.

The spanish market will change with the Air Europa deal and there seems no need for additional capacity and enough orders to replace very old aircraft. BA might also keep fleet size stable especially if they pull out of LGW. EI gets their LRs and maybe XLRs but they are not in dire need of replacements for their 320s. Vueling needs to make sure it stays profitable, I can not see them growing naturally at the moment. BCN will be saturated with low fares for a long time due to overcapacity and the ULCCs will keep the pressure up so I predict consolidating and no IAG order from any manufacturer (maybe the odd XLR, but not more than 25 tops).
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:25 am

There are plenty of almost new and older A320ceo/B737NG now in the market (knowing that Vueling, BA Gatwick fleet are mostly used prior to joining the fleet), I don't see why they are in a rush to firm up the order. Airbus can afford to lose some neo order, don't think they're losing any sleep. Even if they want to bid for it, am sure Airbus can clear some pretty good slots for them with all the cancellation and deferment from AirAsia, Interjet, Cathay etc
 
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lesfalls
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:40 am

Off topic but hasn't Luis been much more quite and off the scenes compared to Willie Wash, considering how he's the leader of IAG?

This is the first time he's spoken out if I'm not mistaken.
 
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vhtje
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:42 am

RexBanner wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
The problem at the moment is, we have no Idea what the LGW operation for BA will look like in the future. We might even see a full retreat of the short haul offer. Maybe with all economy 737-8200s BA could compete but do they really want to tarnish their own brand with LGW operations. It would be more sensible to actually "outsource" LGW short haul through another IAG brand and keep BA out of it. So as I can see the 737 count growing in the group over the next years it seems a long shot to see it in BA colours, even less at IB as they are full Airbus at the moment and I haven't seen any indication that this could change soon.


Just a point of order, the slots at LGW are specifically BA slots, they’re not IAG slots.


BA owning a slot pair doesn't stop BA from leasing the pair to another IAG airline... for £1. Or for a full commercial rate. Or somewhere in between.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:59 pm

This was a Walsh-era IAG order. Change of CEO should not change the financial business case, but could change the nuances about the value / risk of a single-type operation.
 
VV
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:00 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
There are plenty of almost new and older A320ceo/B737NG now in the market (knowing that Vueling, BA Gatwick fleet are mostly used prior to joining the fleet), I don't see why they are in a rush to firm up the order. Airbus can afford to lose some neo order, don't think they're losing any sleep. Even if they want to bid for it, am sure Airbus can clear some pretty good slots for them with all the cancellation and deferment from AirAsia, Interjet, Cathay etc



I do not understand the discussion on the fact airlines might not need to order aircraft for the next several years.

So what does the huge backlog mean? Boeing has about 4,000 MAX in the backlog and Airbus has about 6,000 of A320neo.

Do you guys mean the backlog is just a mirage and does not represent anything real?
 
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Revelation
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:29 pm

Crosswind wrote:
The BA LGW Airbus fleet is already bulk loaded, being primarily a point-to-point leisure operation; the easier cargo loading and handling of connecting baggage isn’t quite so important.

Wait, what?

I thought bulk loading was unaffordable anywhere in Christendom, not to mention a right minded yet high wage place such as free, liberal and socially advanced London.
 
skipness1E
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:34 pm

I watched G-DBCK land on a domestic stand at LHR on Sunday, empty luggage bins were used to handball the bulk loaded bags into for travel to baggage reclaim. Seems mad when they could just load the bins as per the rest of the A320* series fleet.

We don't even know if there will be a Gatwick short haul operation, although there's some good news coming this week on double vaccinated people being able to travel soon without so much hassle, so the pent up demand will FLOOD back as soon as we get the chance to travel.
Last edited by skipness1E on Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:38 pm

VV wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
There are plenty of almost new and older A320ceo/B737NG now in the market (knowing that Vueling, BA Gatwick fleet are mostly used prior to joining the fleet), I don't see why they are in a rush to firm up the order. Airbus can afford to lose some neo order, don't think they're losing any sleep. Even if they want to bid for it, am sure Airbus can clear some pretty good slots for them with all the cancellation and deferment from AirAsia, Interjet, Cathay etc



I do not understand the discussion on the fact airlines might not need to order aircraft for the next several years.

So what does the huge backlog mean? Boeing has about 4,000 MAX in the backlog and Airbus has about 6,000 of A320neo.

Do you guys mean the backlog is just a mirage and does not represent anything real?


It is a list of what people did want and maybe now no longer need, including from leasers who might not have airlines to place those frames with. In that lies some deal making opportunities between those who are in line but don't need and those who want but are not in line. No need to join the end of the queue, and it looks like the queue is more spread out with some spots available as some people do not really want to go to the check just yet anyway. Although at some point this will end and we will see a mad scramble to get in line. The fun bit will be guessing when that will happen. And everyone who misses out will start moaning about everyone else without irony.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:39 pm

skipness1E wrote:
I watched G-DBCK land on a domestic stand at LHR on Sunday, empty luggage bins were used to handball the bulk loaded bags into for travel to baggage reclaim. Seems mad when they could just load the bins as per the rest of the A320* series fleet.


Would that not require container-loading and unloading capabilities at all destinations flown by BA to / from London?
 
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scbriml
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:40 pm

Revelation wrote:
Crosswind wrote:
The BA LGW Airbus fleet is already bulk loaded, being primarily a point-to-point leisure operation; the easier cargo loading and handling of connecting baggage isn’t quite so important.

Wait, what?

I thought bulk loading was unaffordable anywhere in Christendom, not to mention a right minded yet high wage place such as free, liberal and socially advanced London.


I'm pretty sure the only point that's been made before is that BA uses containers for baggage at Heathrow? I don't recall anyone claiming BA used containers at Gatwick.
 
skipness1E
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:41 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
I watched G-DBCK land on a domestic stand at LHR on Sunday, empty luggage bins were used to handball the bulk loaded bags into for travel to baggage reclaim. Seems mad when they could just load the bins as per the rest of the A320* series fleet.


Would that not require container-loading and unloading capabilities at all destinations flown by BA to / from London?

Why's that any different from any LHR route? Container loading is the norm for most A320 operators, so most airports are so equipped in 2021.
 
B777LRF
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:43 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Would that not require container-loading and unloading capabilities at all destinations flown by BA to / from London?


Not would; It does. Which means that any GSP bidding for a BA handling contract will either need to have the necessary equipment in place, or be willing to make the investment.
 
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Revelation
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:28 pm

scbriml wrote:
I'm pretty sure the only point that's been made before is that BA uses containers for baggage at Heathrow?

I think if you dig up one of the countless posts showing containers on this forum it will not be the only point you will find, regardless of the fact that bulk loading is still common in many places (even ones with high wages) and still happens with Airbus narrow bodies.
 
VV
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:32 pm

Ha! The container strikes back.
 
Naincompetent
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:35 pm

Isn't it more like The phantom menace?
 
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ClipperMonsoon
Posts: 63
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
Crosswind wrote:
The BA LGW Airbus fleet is already bulk loaded, being primarily a point-to-point leisure operation; the easier cargo loading and handling of connecting baggage isn’t quite so important.

Wait, what?

I thought bulk loading was unaffordable anywhere in Christendom, not to mention a right minded yet high wage place such as free, liberal and socially advanced London.


Guess it's not a deal breaker as some others have (continuously) pointed out, but I'm sure they can come up with some other things, like maybe the cockpit color on one is much more appealing...it's just a lot of desperate fluff
 
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Crosswind
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:02 pm

ClipperMonsoon wrote:
Guess it's not a deal breaker as some others have (continuously) pointed out, but I'm sure they can come up with some other things, like maybe the cockpit color on one is much more appealing...it's just a lot of desperate fluff


BA/IAG have a preference for containerisation on the A320 family. All their factory new aircraft are containerised, and it’s how LHR T5 is set up.

But the ex-Bmi A319s were never containerised, so they were moved to LGW, alongside second hand A320s that were bulk loaded. The ex-bmi A320s which were containerised were also relocated there, now run as bulk loaded aircraft. I would wager they wanted to avoid the expense of installing container handling systems in older aircraft that were introduced second hand.

Will be interesting to see what happens if they consolidate the LGW fleet at LHR in the longer term. I suspect that they will be dedicated to T3 to keep them separate operationally.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:08 pm

VV wrote:
It has been a while IAG's commitment for 737 MAX was announced.
They haven't firmed the order so far.

Considering some other airlines like United and Ryanair show interest ordering more 737 MAX, do you think IAG will finally decide to firm their order to secure delivery slots or would they just drop the commitment and order A320neo instead?

There are far more short term MAX slots than NEO production slots.

I do not see IAG in a rush. When they are ready, it will be a competition with all costs considered.

In my opinion, it could go either way. I think Boeing will be aggressive. The question is ill Airbus and possibly how aggressive Pratt will be.

This order will be contested. In my opinion, this will be like a Delta airlines order where the winner isn't predetermined.

Lightsaber
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3511
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:15 pm

keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


No. That is a.net (and some blogger) speculation because they can't accept IAG might actually order MAX.
 
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keesje
Posts: 14785
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:39 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


No. That is a.net (and some blogger) speculation because they can't accept IAG might actually order MAX.


:sarcastic:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... boeing-max?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3511
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: B737MAX Still considered for IAGs future fleet

Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:53 pm

keesje wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Wasn't the main driver of this LOI to put some pressure on Airbus?

https://onemileatatime.com/iag-ceo-737-max-order/


No. That is a.net (and some blogger) speculation because they can't accept IAG might actually order MAX.


:sarcastic:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... boeing-max?


So IAG was frustrated so they ordered MAXes...it means they still wanted MAXes. It in no way suggests it was "pressure" really to get more Airbus.

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