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Revelation
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:57 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m a boomer, I was raised around airline pilots (parents were good friends with #4 at a major airline, I was taught early on, “don’t say or do anything that wouldn’t be fit for the front page of NYT. Airline pilots of the era said, “don’t embarrass the company”; a version of “ride for the brand”. I’m betting this guy is NOT a boomer

Im not a boomer but even I am getting pretty tired of them being scapegoated for literally everything.

I am a (tail end) boomer and I'm getting pretty tired of exaggerations such as "literally everything".

Boomer is just a tag, just like GenXer or millennial. It doesn't mean everyone in the age group meets the stereotype...
 
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NCAD95
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:06 pm

What is concerning is people find his comments ok. While he has a right to think and feel as he wants these types of comments acceptable in any venue and they should raise red flags to this man's state of mind.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:06 pm

nine4nine wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
nine4nine wrote:


Yea so there were people on board. Did a little humor put their lives in jeopardy? Come on......
Have you actually ever been in a cockpit during flight? I have many times and believe me discussions and banter happen from the time the chocks are pulled till the time chocks are set. Anyone who says otherwise has either A-Never been on an active flight deck or B- are a liar.


I’ve been in commercial jumpseats prior to 9/11. I’ve also been in the flight deck on Boeing test flights. So yeah, I’ve been on active flight decks quite a few times. I’ve never once heard anything like that. Particularly the Boeing pilots are always 100% professional.


Well yea a Boeing test flight is different from a standard commercial flight. Because all data and communications are recorded and monitored and analyzed so the pilots are going to be very mindful of what they say and do.

Not to deviate from topic, but to find common ground I’m sure you and I can agree we miss those pre-9/11 regulations that allowed us jump seat access. I miss those days.


I agree 100% on that. Jumpseat authorization was a help for my job role too. Plus of course it was fun. I miss the days of sending my work badge up front on non-US carriers and then being invited to sit in the jumpseat.
 
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NCAD95
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:08 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
My only concern would be having that conversation at a time when the cockpit is supposed to be sterile.

As for his rant, whatever. Counseling? Really? Everyone has their political opinions and views people who oppose them in certain ways. Im liberal myself and Im not bothered by it. I just need him to fly the plane safely, we dont have to be friends.


As a person with a conscious his comments should greatly bother you no matter what your political views are.
 
727231
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:09 pm

[/quote]
ATCSuggester wrote:
I will say this: Sidetones save lives!

This reminds me of the stuckmic about 10 years ago where the SWA pilot was ranting about gays, grannies and grandes. Anyone remember that?!



I remember that, I thought it was at SFO, bay area too?

jeff
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:10 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
What is concerning is people find his comments ok. While he has a right to think and feel as he wants these types of comments acceptable in any venue and they should raise red flags to this man's state of mind.


Some people suggest that he was just joking. Honestly, from listening to it I couldn’t tell. It sounded like a serious rant to me, but hard to tell what was going on. Was he just being a comedian? Or is he an angry bitter individual that should raise a red flag?

Like I’ve posted several times, I have no offense taken if he wants to talk like that while drinking beers with his buddies or in a locket room. He picked an inappropriate time and place. Plus he was kind of stupid doing it when there is a risk of a stuck mic.
Last edited by BoeingGuy on Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
twinotter
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:12 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
My only concern would be having that conversation at a time when the cockpit is supposed to be sterile.

As for his rant, whatever. Counseling? Really? Everyone has their political opinions and views people who oppose them in certain ways. Im liberal myself and Im not bothered by it. I just need him to fly the plane safely, we dont have to be friends.


Is hating Hyundai now a Conservative thing? I can't keep up with everything that offends them these days, but this strikes me as more a psychiatric issue.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:14 pm

Nothing says "women are physically repulsed by me and my extensive record of sexual assault" like rolling coal :rotfl:
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing says "women are physically repulsed by me and my extensive record of sexual assault" like rolling coal :rotfl:


Hahaha! Good one. That’s the man with the world’s smallest......

I’d never even heard of “rolling coal” before this, and I hang out with people who are into cars as a hobby.
 
masonh2479
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:20 pm

twinotter wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
My only concern would be having that conversation at a time when the cockpit is supposed to be sterile.

As for his rant, whatever. Counseling? Really? Everyone has their political opinions and views people who oppose them in certain ways. Im liberal myself and Im not bothered by it. I just need him to fly the plane safely, we dont have to be friends.


Is hating Hyundai now a Conservative thing? I can't keep up with everything that offends them these days, but this strikes me as more a psychiatric issue.

To the average conservative like myself absolutely not. But like any political party there are vocal outliers. For example, there are some that hate electric cars and want to roll coal on them, while on the other hand I am saving up for a Model 3.
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:39 pm

Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.
 
11C
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:32 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.


More eloquence demonstrating how widespread the problem is. If you want excuse stupidity, and lawbreaking, go for it.
...and it’s “broken”. If you say something is “broke”, you may be mistaken for a redneck.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:39 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.


No it’s not a suggestion. It’s a regulation. The speed limit is the law. Gawd I hope you aren’t a pilot with an attitude like that.

The only aneurysms are those being suffered by the people who are defending inappropriate behavior that violates FAA regulations.
 
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Citrus1492
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:02 pm

11C wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.


More eloquence demonstrating how widespread the problem is. If you want excuse stupidity, and lawbreaking, go for it.
...and it’s “broken”. If you say something is “broke”, you may be mistaken for a redneck.

Broke is mechanicspeak. Funny you are triggered by that, then lash out with a racial stereotype.
 
N212R
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:20 pm

wjcandee wrote:
They're talking in all sorts of funny, prankish accents, even when speaking to ATC at one point.


Do you condone that in an active professional environment?

That accent that says all the offensive stuff is straight out of King of the Hill, and doesn't sound like either pilot's actual voice.


So you condone pilots imitating Rich Little in an active professional environment?

Sounds like they were just goofing around saying things that they didn't mean


Therefore you condone "goofing around" in an active professional environment? Who elected you as SW Pilots Association's mind-reader?

and then some Woke Do-Gooder LiveATC listener happened to hear it and turned it into something that it wasn't...and were having a little fun at work.


Your dismissively challenged interpretation of events says more about your professional standards than the principles involved...and I'm far from being a Bay Area lefty.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:29 pm

THS214 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
N667US wrote:

If every single pilot nowadays is willing to break FAA regulations and risk people's lives to make small talk? Sure. The sterile cockpit rule exists for a reason, see Eastern Air Lines Flight 212, Colgan Air Flight 3407, Delta Airlines Flight 1141 etc.


If planes crashed at 10% of the times sterile cockpit rule was broken, there wouldn’t be many pilots, passengers or planes. It’s a good rule, makes sense especially in a busy environment or low weather, but it’s not almighty God, either.


You are right but if you break a rule, then another etc. Where does it stop? Its easy to say that I know my limits but so did all those pilots who crashed. Why not just follow the rules? Why not have a sterile cockpit when required?


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I never, and most us, never said go ahead and break the rules, we certainly follow them, but can you truthfully say you’ve never uttered a non-essential word below 10,000’, never been one knot over 250 below 10,000’, never exceeded 200 knots underneath the Class B?
 
THS214
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:31 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
THS214 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If planes crashed at 10% of the times sterile cockpit rule was broken, there wouldn’t be many pilots, passengers or planes. It’s a good rule, makes sense especially in a busy environment or low weather, but it’s not almighty God, either.


You are right but if you break a rule, then another etc. Where does it stop? Its easy to say that I know my limits but so did all those pilots who crashed. Why not just follow the rules? Why not have a sterile cockpit when required?


Are you a professional pilot in a CRM environment?


I'm not sure what you are trying to ask? CRM should always be present when there is more than one pilot in a cockpit. Flying at 35 000 ft pilots can have a chat while monitoring the progress of the flight. No problem with that. Often that is a good way of keeping pilots alert especially on a long flight. Should a problem arise, training and CRM should kick in immediately.

I answered to sterile cockpit rule. Different countries different rules, different airlines different rules. Still they should be followed.

To exaggerate, someone does go through take off check list by memory. Do you accept that as its only one rule broken?
 
UA748i
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:35 pm

Naturally, as someone who is very much anti-Left, I agree with him on a lot there.

That being said, as a pilot in training, it is very unprofessional to talk about this stuff, especially since it is being recorded.

Leave it on the ground.
Last edited by UA748i on Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mcdu
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:40 pm

Southwest should distance themselves by terminating this pilot. This was extremely unprofessional and doesn’t fit the corporate image WN wants to portray.

There is no defense he can offer to the FAA for the action they take. The ASRS system won’t protect him in this case because it doesn’t protect someone from an intentional act. The hot mic was inadvertent. The sterile violation intentional.
 
11C
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:42 pm

Citrus1492 wrote:
11C wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.


More eloquence demonstrating how widespread the problem is. If you want excuse stupidity, and lawbreaking, go for it.
...and it’s “broken”. If you say something is “broke”, you may be mistaken for a redneck.

Broke is mechanicspeak. Funny you are triggered by that, then lash out with a racial stereotype.


Didn’t realize “redneck” was a race. Forgive me.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:45 pm

I’m a pretty left leaving San Franciscan and I do find this guy offensive. It’s true though, the q-tip looking pilots are often quite conservative and get offended by petty things like car brands, apparently.
 
THS214
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
THS214 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If planes crashed at 10% of the times sterile cockpit rule was broken, there wouldn’t be many pilots, passengers or planes. It’s a good rule, makes sense especially in a busy environment or low weather, but it’s not almighty God, either.


You are right but if you break a rule, then another etc. Where does it stop? Its easy to say that I know my limits but so did all those pilots who crashed. Why not just follow the rules? Why not have a sterile cockpit when required?


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I never, and most us, never said go ahead and break the rules, we certainly follow them, but can you truthfully say you’ve never uttered a non-essential word below 10,000’, never been one knot over 250 below 10,000’, never exceeded 200 knots underneath the Class B?


Everyone makes mistakes. When you do it on purpose its not a mistake anymore. This is my point. That tirade was not a mistake.

Its normal to go little out of the envelope. Like pilot saying "Beautiful scenery out there". No problem there. Its really not a safety factor if it stays there and the pilots don't get distracted by starting a conversation of the scenery.

"never been one knot over 250 below 10,000’" That's not a good example and you know it. :) Make it 270 below 10,000’ and descending. Do you contact ATC and let them know? Do you stop descending and reduce speed? Or do you just hide your mistake? See the difference? This is what many here discuss. Unfortunately many pilots take it personally what it is not.

95% of pilots are good and work professionally. 4% are not so good but work professionally. So when that 1% screw up, why defend their mistakes, stupidity, what ever? That doesn't help safety.
 
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Revelation
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:53 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
My only concern would be having that conversation at a time when the cockpit is supposed to be sterile.

As for his rant, whatever. Counseling? Really? Everyone has their political opinions and views people who oppose them in certain ways. Im liberal myself and Im not bothered by it. I just need him to fly the plane safely, we dont have to be friends.

As a person with a conscious his comments should greatly bother you no matter what your political views are.

Too busy playing the victim's card to be concerned about the true issue, pilot not focusing on the job..
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TrafficCop
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:58 pm

johnboy wrote:
Funny thing ... I’d rather that pilots in charge of flying a multi-million dollar jet with loads of passengers’ lives at stake to keep their minds on the job of safely flying the plane.

This is a black eye for WN, no doubt about that. Perhaps I’m not in the industry and can see it for what it is. Or perhaps WN just overlooks this type of “good ol boy” behavior.


I’m offended by the term black eye. That’s saying black is bad. Think you need to used bruised or some other term!!!

In case you can’t read between the lines that’s sarcasm!!
 
santi319
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:59 pm

This happens all the time, a quick peek into the pilot forums and you will be appalled at the stuff that they say:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/jetb ... ughty.html

Referring to Alexandria Ocasio as a pornstar whos name is Ruby Ridge or that “people that support her cant afford plane tickets”.

Its just part of the “locker room talk” of pilots.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:05 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
I’m a pretty left leaving San Franciscan and I do find this guy offensive. It’s true though, the q-tip looking pilots are often quite conservative and get offended by petty things like car brands, apparently.

Q-tip looking pilots? As in white? If so, according to you, white pilots are often conservative and get offended by petty things? Pretty broad (and racist) brush with which you’re painting. I’ve flown with lots of liberal pilots, most of whom were white (or Q tips as you called them). And ironically, you just stated yourself you’re offended by some conservative’s anti-liberal rant (which was intended to be a private conversation). So let’s break this down...a conservative’s intended-to-be-private rant offends you (a pretty petty thing by most measures), but then in the next sentence you denigrate “Qtip” pilots as easily offendable-by-petty-things conservatives. See the irony here?
Last edited by JoseSalazar on Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bob75013
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:19 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
hpff wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
Would it make news if the rant was opposed to conservatives?


Probably? It's the US, from my experience everything remotely political is picked up by some news source somewhere.

Also was this before or after pushback, and does that matter for the sterile cockpit law?


The exchange occurred while they were waiting take-off clearance.


Which isn't a critical area o f flight. Thus FAR 121.542 doesn't apply
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:25 pm

bob75013 wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:
hpff wrote:

Probably? It's the US, from my experience everything remotely political is picked up by some news source somewhere.

Also was this before or after pushback, and does that matter for the sterile cockpit law?


The exchange occurred while they were waiting take-off clearance.


Which isn't a critical area o f flight. Thus FAR 121.542 doesn't apply


So you are saying the Sterile Cockpit regulation didn’t apply? Serious question. I assumed it did, as did many others apparently.
 
bob75013
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:34 pm

mcdu wrote:
Southwest should distance themselves by terminating this pilot. This was extremely unprofessional and doesn’t fit the corporate image WN wants to portray.

There is no defense he can offer to the FAA for the action they take. The ASRS system won’t protect him in this case because it doesn’t protect someone from an intentional act. The hot mic was inadvertent. The sterile violation intentional.



SWAPA might have something to say abut that

mcdu, I just knew you would show up in t his thead. - right on que.
 
bob75013
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:42 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:

The exchange occurred while they were waiting take-off clearance.


Which isn't a critical area o f flight. Thus FAR 121.542 doesn't apply


So you are saying the Sterile Cockpit regulation didn’t apply? Serious question. I assumed it did, as did many others apparently.


Sterile cockpit rules apply t o critical areas of flight . Sitting still on a taxiway doesn't qualify.

Read the FAR. It was posted on page 2 of this thread.
Last edited by bob75013 on Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:42 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
NCAD95 wrote:

The exchange occurred while they were waiting take-off clearance.


Which isn't a critical area o f flight. Thus FAR 121.542 doesn't apply


So you are saying the Sterile Cockpit regulation didn’t apply? Serious question. I assumed it did, as did many others apparently.


If the parking brake is set, then no, sterile doesn’t apply. At least at the airlines I’ve worked at. Not sure what WN’s FOM (or equivalent) says, nor do I know if he the parking brake was set during the rant.
 
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NCAD95
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:49 pm

Here is the whole incident uncensored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaYKOquFyI
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:54 pm

THS214 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
THS214 wrote:

You are right but if you break a rule, then another etc. Where does it stop? Its easy to say that I know my limits but so did all those pilots who crashed. Why not just follow the rules? Why not have a sterile cockpit when required?


Are you a professional pilot in a CRM environment?


I'm not sure what you are trying to ask? CRM should always be present when there is more than one pilot in a cockpit. Flying at 35 000 ft pilots can have a chat while monitoring the progress of the flight. No problem with that. Often that is a good way of keeping pilots alert especially on a long flight. Should a problem arise, training and CRM should kick in immediately.

I answered to sterile cockpit rule. Different countries different rules, different airlines different rules. Still they should be followed.

To exaggerate, someone does go through take off check list by memory. Do you accept that as its only one rule broken?


Nobody is saying sterile shouldn't be followed. Clearly it should, in this case for sure. Not every break of sterile is equal in severity, yet even a benign "Beautiful day today.. look at the awesome paint job on that jet.. last week it took forever to get out of here.." are bound to be more than statements, and devolve if poorly timed. Judgment, common sense, situational awareness.

I'm responding to the outrageous lynch mob mentality that demands terminating a pilot for a very minor and common infraction (talking while holding short of the runway with the brakes set and checklists complete). Over the top sensational fear amongst those who don't have any real life experience of flying the line, only their perception of what it should be from books, youtube, air-disaster documentaries, and sitting in a jumpseat on a test flight. When a poster said if we fired every pilot who broke sterile, we'd have no pilots was right. So was GalaxyFlyer. Let the Chief Pilot handle the situation, not an ignorant & irrational mob.
 
wjcandee
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:04 pm

11C wrote:
Citrus1492 wrote:
Sterile cockpit is like the speed limit, its a suggestion. Ive observed it broke every time I rode up front. The first time I jumpseated, the two guys were talking about everyting but the airplane. I mentioned sterile cockpit to them. One just shook his head, the other pointed at me and laughed. Ive never mentioned it again.
Also, It's funny watching people have aneurysms because someone's opinions differs from their own.


More eloquence demonstrating how widespread the problem is. If you want excuse stupidity, and lawbreaking, go for it.
...and it’s “broken”. If you say something is “broke”, you may be mistaken for a redneck.


You know, I have a pretty-gold-plated advanced education, and I occasionally make typos. It is the height of obnoxious blind condescension to criticize somebody for a typo or the like on here, as if that has a GD thing to do with the subject.

You're a bully, and you bullied that guy for no reason, and you owe him an apology. Hiding behind the keyboard saying things that would get you decked in a bar is no way to go through life. Go out somewhere with real people and learn a little socialization.
 
wjcandee
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:15 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
Here is the whole incident uncensored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQaYKOquFyI


That's not the whole thing. There's more later, where he broadcasts in yet another voice on the tower channel and has a funny reply when the tower points out that he's not on departure.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: WN Pilot Goes on Anti-Bay Area Rant

Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:15 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
THS214 wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:

Are you a professional pilot in a CRM environment?


I'm not sure what you are trying to ask? CRM should always be present when there is more than one pilot in a cockpit. Flying at 35 000 ft pilots can have a chat while monitoring the progress of the flight. No problem with that. Often that is a good way of keeping pilots alert especially on a long flight. Should a problem arise, training and CRM should kick in immediately.

I answered to sterile cockpit rule. Different countries different rules, different airlines different rules. Still they should be followed.

To exaggerate, someone does go through take off check list by memory. Do you accept that as its only one rule broken?


Nobody is saying sterile shouldn't be followed. Clearly it should, in this case for sure. Not every break of sterile is equal in severity, yet even a benign "Beautiful day today.. look at the awesome paint job on that jet.. last week it took forever to get out of here.." are bound to be more than statements, and devolve if poorly timed. Judgment, common sense, situational awareness.

I'm responding to the outrageous lynch mob mentality that demands terminating a pilot for a very minor and common infraction (talking while holding short of the runway with the brakes set and checklists complete). Over the top sensational fear amongst those who don't have any real life experience of flying the line, only their perception of what it should be from books, youtube, air-disaster documentaries, and sitting in a jumpseat on a test flight. When a poster said if we fired every pilot who broke sterile, we'd have no pilots was right. So was GalaxyFlyer. Let the Chief Pilot handle the situation, not an ignorant & irrational mob.


If CP/HR opt for termination to set an example, what then? Do you support such a decision if the company decides its warranted? They sign the checks.

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