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ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:11 am

gwrudolph wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
PSA727 wrote:
There was no code-sharing between AA and B6 in their previous agreement. There was no schedule co-ordinating under that agreement. There were just a small set of B6 city pairs which one could earn 500 AAdvantage miles for flying and book on AA's website (under the B6 code). That's it. No mileage redemption. No recipricol FFer benefits on the other carrier. Moreover, if AA wasn't interested in B6's domestic connection feed at JFK with this new agreement, why did they announce last week that there will be an airside connector bus between T-8 and T-5?

But let's look at PHL's TATL record. Prior to 2020, AA operated 8 year-round TATL flights out of PHL: LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG, FCO, ZRH, MAD, and MAN. While it operated 5 year-round flights out of JFK: LHR, CDG, MAD, MXP, and BCN. Now, it appears that PHL-MAN is gone for good. So that leaves 7 versus 5. But what if AMS and ZRH get switched over to JFK, as many think might happen? That makes it JFK - 7 and PHL - 5. Now let's look at PHL's TATL failures...

PHL-MXP operated for a couple of years about a decade ago. Year-round service at JFK.
PHL-FRA... gone.
PHL-MUC...shifted over to CLT.
* (And BTW, if they couldn't make PHL-FRA/MUC work, why would they add something like PHL-DUS/HAM/STR with the 321XLR?)
PHL-TLV... gone. But JFK-TLV starts in a couple of months.

Also, if PHL was the whole shebang for TATL service in AA's network, why did they plan on starting service to Krakow last year from ORD and not PHL? There are plenty of flights between PHL and ORD that they could have connected passengers onto.


Agreed on the 2000s B6/AA agreement involving JFK, but some things to note. PHL-MXP was never operated by AA. It briefly ran as a US route long before the merger, and didn't do well and was axed after 1 season. Also, I never suggested PHL-DUS/HAM/STR would work or would be added with the 321XLR. AA does very poorly to Germany and largely due to low POS on the German end. I can see ZRH going back up to JFK where it came from (it was a legacy AA route, but US also operated it from PHL as well for a time before the merger). AMS, I am not so sure. DL/KLM and UA at EWR largely have the market covered but on a 321XLR, yes, JFK-AMS could work for AA. B6 has also signaled it wants to fly to AMS once it gets LON up and running.


I agree. AA Germany example is not a good example. With Star Alliance stronghold there, AA never did well in Germany even pre-merger. At one point prior to the merger, I believe they may have completely pulled out of FRA and MUC. SA makes it tough


I believe pre-merger, AA maintained DFW-FRA but had no service to MUC after it was dropped from the AA route map.
 
aerace
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:38 pm

sjones1975 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
PHL is the 5th largest metro area in the US...


Fairly recently (within last five years or so), Philly was #6, but it now slipped all the way down to #8...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ical_areas


PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:43 pm

aerace wrote:
sjones1975 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
PHL is the 5th largest metro area in the US...


Fairly recently (within last five years or so), Philly was #6, but it now slipped all the way down to #8...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ical_areas


PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:06 pm

Irehdna wrote:
aerace wrote:
sjones1975 wrote:

Fairly recently (within last five years or so), Philly was #6, but it now slipped all the way down to #8...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ical_areas


PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.



Is that a trend?I haven’t heard of that. I know a lot of Florida with the moves
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:13 pm

Irehdna wrote:
aerace wrote:
sjones1975 wrote:

Fairly recently (within last five years or so), Philly was #6, but it now slipped all the way down to #8...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ical_areas


PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.


Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.
 
aerace
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:55 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
aerace wrote:

PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.


Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.


I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:05 pm

aerace wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.


Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.


I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.



Yeah I think this is going on throughout the New York area. These are people that want to stay within an hour or two of city...But no longer want to live in the city post pandemic
 
leader1
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:09 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
aerace wrote:

PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.



Is that a trend?I haven’t heard of that. I know a lot of Florida with the moves


Isn’t correct at all. Some poor hipsters move to the Philadelphia area because it’s cheaper, but no businesses that I have heard of. Philly isn’t a more friendly business environment than NYC. Cheaper, yes, but regulations and taxes are similar.
 
aerace
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:38 pm

leader1 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.



Is that a trend?I haven’t heard of that. I know a lot of Florida with the moves


Isn’t correct at all. Some poor hipsters move to the Philadelphia area because it’s cheaper, but no businesses that I have heard of. Philly isn’t a more friendly business environment than NYC. Cheaper, yes, but regulations and taxes are similar.


The people I know are six-figure earning professionals, not poor hipsters. Although cost is definitely a driver, it goes deeper for a lot of those leaving NYC. This post by Korman captures it well.

https://www.aveliving.com/blog/moving-f ... -to-philly
 
jplatts
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:36 pm

sagechan wrote:
PHL's cons
- Leakage to NYC for more directs/cheaper


The fares on TATL flights out of JFK/EWR is expected to go up once demand recovers with some European LCC's such as DY having pulled out of the NYC market. There will also likely be less of an cost advantage of NYC-Europe over PHL-Europe with some of the European LCC's no longer serving NYC.
 
leader1
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:56 pm

aerace wrote:
leader1 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Is that a trend?I haven’t heard of that. I know a lot of Florida with the moves


Isn’t correct at all. Some poor hipsters move to the Philadelphia area because it’s cheaper, but no businesses that I have heard of. Philly isn’t a more friendly business environment than NYC. Cheaper, yes, but regulations and taxes are similar.


The people I know are six-figure earning professionals, not poor hipsters. Although cost is definitely a driver, it goes deeper for a lot of those leaving NYC. This post by Korman captures it well.

https://www.aveliving.com/blog/moving-f ... -to-philly


You did mention Jersey Shore, which is entirely different than Philadelphia. Also, the article really focuses on housing cost and value more than anything else. I’m not denying that there haven’t been people who have moved from NYC to Philadelphia. Hell, I know some people who made the move (though most wouldn’t be what I’d call six-figure income earners). My point is that you’re not seeing businesses moving here en masses like the previous poster suggested and a lot of people who have made the move were lower income earners who wanted to save money. Granted, many I know who made that move ended up moving back to NYC or to other places due to lack of opportunities, but that’s another topic for another day.

https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/why- ... ladelphia/
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:02 pm

aerace wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.


Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.


I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.


The Jersey Shore, while close to Philadelphia yes, isn't in PA last time I checked. Buying homes yes, probably, but large corps moving out of NYC to Philly, not really no. Not the same thing.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:04 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
aerace wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.


I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.


The Jersey Shore, while close to Philadelphia yes, isn't in PA last time I checked. Buying homes yes, probably, but large corps moving out of NYC to Philly, not really no. Not the same thing.


That demand is way more likely to use PHL/EWR though in return instead of JFK.
 
leader1
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:14 pm

jplatts wrote:
sagechan wrote:
PHL's cons
- Leakage to NYC for more directs/cheaper


The fares on TATL flights out of JFK/EWR is expected to go up once demand recovers with some European LCC's such as DY having pulled out of the NYC market. There will also likely be less of an cost advantage of NYC-Europe over PHL-Europe with some of the European LCC's no longer serving NYC.


International travel is going to be depressed for a long time. Asia won’t let anyone in and Europe is an absolute mess right now and probably won’t get back to normal by the summer. I won’t even get into how dreadful things are in most of South America. Furthermore, for better or worse, you’re seeing a stronger backlash to globalization and an increase in nationalism, which generally portends less interest in cultural exchange and less desire for international travel. This is the case all over the world and it only seems to be getting worse. The returning lower international travel will primarily be from cities that are already international and have that type of demand. Not saying JFK will take over PHL as AA’s international hub, but it - along with MIA, LAX, EWR, ORD, SFO, BOS, IAH, etc. - will see their international travel numbers recover a lot quicker than PHL would. PHL’s O&D international demand simply isn’t at the levels of those cities, even during good years.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:28 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
aerace wrote:

I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.


The Jersey Shore, while close to Philadelphia yes, isn't in PA last time I checked. Buying homes yes, probably, but large corps moving out of NYC to Philly, not really no. Not the same thing.


That demand is way more likely to use PHL/EWR though in return instead of JFK.


Obviously.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:53 pm

aerace wrote:
I can also personally attest to an influx of NYC folks to the Jersey shore. Never in the 30 years I have summered there have I seen the amount of NY license plates as I had during 2020. The real estate market was on fire down there (and still is) with tons of NY folks snatching properties up.


Avalon and Stone Harbor, NJ have been discovered by New Yorkers over the past 5 or so years as an alternative to The Hamptons. However, prices are approaching the astronomical there too (looking at Zillow), lots of new mansions going up down there.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:20 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Have you ever been to JFK? It's got to be one of the worst transfer hubs in the world. It doesn't have airside connections between terminals. That means having to go through security again if you're connecting to a flight in a different terminal. Considering that security screenings have been required coming up in 50 years, it's quite unacceptable. The whole airport was designed in a different era just after WWII. Until the terminals get rebuilt in a more efficient layout with modern design criteria, it makes no sense to use JFK as a transfer hub. There is plenty of O&D in the NYC metro area to justify flights to and from JFK without connection opportunities.


It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....
 
N649DL
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:35 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
aerace wrote:

PHL was the fifth most populous city for a long long time. Phoenix continued to move their boundaries over the years to expand their footprint and grab more folks, something a small, tightly packed northeast city can't do. Plus more boomer retirees. It will interesting to see the impacts Covid has had on population shifts across the US.


For what its worth, many NYC businesses are relocating some operations to Philly because of lower rents while still being within 90 minutes by train from NYC. I expect Philly to become a much younger city in the coming years, actually.


Hmmm..not exactly. If US Postal Service change of address data is to be believed, a significant number of individuals did relocate in 2020 from the NYC to the Philly area, but wholesale business relocation to Philadelphia from the NY metro area isn't a thing.


There has been a mass exodus from the NYC-Area for years now. It's really nothing new, people just don't like the high real estate costs and taxes. PHL is definitely cheaper but the big outbound moves seem to be NC & FL as well a little bit out to TX and even CA.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:46 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Have you ever been to JFK? It's got to be one of the worst transfer hubs in the world. It doesn't have airside connections between terminals. That means having to go through security again if you're connecting to a flight in a different terminal. Considering that security screenings have been required coming up in 50 years, it's quite unacceptable. The whole airport was designed in a different era just after WWII. Until the terminals get rebuilt in a more efficient layout with modern design criteria, it makes no sense to use JFK as a transfer hub. There is plenty of O&D in the NYC metro area to justify flights to and from JFK without connection opportunities.


It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....


What is so terrible about that transfer?
AA and CX are both in Terminal 8 so you just get off the plane and go to the next gate like just about every other hub airport. If you were doing an AA-JL or AA-AT connection where you have to go from T8 to T1 I could understand but AA-CX at JFK is easy.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:55 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Have you ever been to JFK? It's got to be one of the worst transfer hubs in the world. It doesn't have airside connections between terminals. That means having to go through security again if you're connecting to a flight in a different terminal. Considering that security screenings have been required coming up in 50 years, it's quite unacceptable. The whole airport was designed in a different era just after WWII. Until the terminals get rebuilt in a more efficient layout with modern design criteria, it makes no sense to use JFK as a transfer hub. There is plenty of O&D in the NYC metro area to justify flights to and from JFK without connection opportunities.


It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....


What is so terrible about that transfer?
AA and CX are both in Terminal 8 so you just get off the plane and go to the next gate like just about every other hub airport. If you were doing an AA-JL or AA-AT connection where you have to go from T8 to T1 I could understand but AA-CX at JFK is easy.


I didn't end up with an issue really, they just made a fuss over the phone, I had 3 check-in bags and a carry-on though. I was more annoyed they wouldn't interline with CX and were offering me stupid routings with JL over ORD and BOS...
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:46 am

Pellegrine wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Have you ever been to JFK? It's got to be one of the worst transfer hubs in the world. It doesn't have airside connections between terminals. That means having to go through security again if you're connecting to a flight in a different terminal. Considering that security screenings have been required coming up in 50 years, it's quite unacceptable. The whole airport was designed in a different era just after WWII. Until the terminals get rebuilt in a more efficient layout with modern design criteria, it makes no sense to use JFK as a transfer hub. There is plenty of O&D in the NYC metro area to justify flights to and from JFK without connection opportunities.


It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....


JFK isn't really meant to be a transfer airport. It's a massive O&D station though DL and B6 obviously do flow connections over it given the significant footprint they each have there. AA hasn't really considered JFK a connecting hub for years, at least since the merger with US. JFK for AA is all about O&D. Pre-pandemic, JFK was prone to delays due to congested airspace and more recently, runway redevelopment. As for connecting from DCA to HKG via JFK, that all sounds like your ticket wasn't issued as a true code-share itinerary. Terminal 8 is actually a really great place to connect if you have to. The DCA flight would have arrived at the midfield concourse most likely, and the CX flights often use that same section of T8. Even as JFK eventually is redeveloped with more unity between terminals, it will not be done to promote connections.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:33 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Have you ever been to JFK? It's got to be one of the worst transfer hubs in the world. It doesn't have airside connections between terminals. That means having to go through security again if you're connecting to a flight in a different terminal. Considering that security screenings have been required coming up in 50 years, it's quite unacceptable. The whole airport was designed in a different era just after WWII. Until the terminals get rebuilt in a more efficient layout with modern design criteria, it makes no sense to use JFK as a transfer hub. There is plenty of O&D in the NYC metro area to justify flights to and from JFK without connection opportunities.


It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....


JFK isn't really meant to be a transfer airport. It's a massive O&D station though DL and B6 obviously do flow connections over it given the significant footprint they each have there. AA hasn't really considered JFK a connecting hub for years, at least since the merger with US. JFK for AA is all about O&D. Pre-pandemic, JFK was prone to delays due to congested airspace and more recently, runway redevelopment. As for connecting from DCA to HKG via JFK, that all sounds like your ticket wasn't issued as a true code-share itinerary. Terminal 8 is actually a really great place to connect if you have to. The DCA flight would have arrived at the midfield concourse most likely, and the CX flights often use that same section of T8. Even as JFK eventually is redeveloped with more unity between terminals, it will not be done to promote connections.


I called the EXP desk specifically to request this routing and they told me explicitly they would not do it. Maybe it was as you say due to JFK being prone to delays. They told me I had to buy two tickets, which I did...because I wanted that routing. This was before CX had an IAD flight, and I'd do it again if I wanted to fly CX F.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:50 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

It suckkkkkssssss transferring at JFK. I once flew AA F DCA-JFK (I think they have 3x daily) to connect to CX F JFK-YVR-HKG. The AA EXP desk would not even book it all as one ticket nor interline bags. They said give yourself a minimum of 4 hours to transfer. I was like LOL but did it anyway....


JFK isn't really meant to be a transfer airport. It's a massive O&D station though DL and B6 obviously do flow connections over it given the significant footprint they each have there. AA hasn't really considered JFK a connecting hub for years, at least since the merger with US. JFK for AA is all about O&D. Pre-pandemic, JFK was prone to delays due to congested airspace and more recently, runway redevelopment. As for connecting from DCA to HKG via JFK, that all sounds like your ticket wasn't issued as a true code-share itinerary. Terminal 8 is actually a really great place to connect if you have to. The DCA flight would have arrived at the midfield concourse most likely, and the CX flights often use that same section of T8. Even as JFK eventually is redeveloped with more unity between terminals, it will not be done to promote connections.


I called the EXP desk specifically to request this routing and they told me explicitly they would not do it. Maybe it was as you say due to JFK being prone to delays. They told me I had to buy two tickets, which I did...because I wanted that routing. This was before CX had an IAD flight, and I'd do it again if I wanted to fly CX F.


It would not have been due to JFK being "prone to delays". It was a routing you requested that typically isn't available for sale at the time and so they sold you two segments independent of each other.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Why does American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:27 pm

AA's policy is not to interline bags if they are separate record locators. They really won't even interline bags that are both on AA metal. This has been happening for about five years now.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why does American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:16 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
AA's policy is not to interline bags if they are separate record locators. They really won't even interline bags that are both on AA metal. This has been happening for about five years now.


Gotcha, I didn't really know.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:22 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

JFK isn't really meant to be a transfer airport. It's a massive O&D station though DL and B6 obviously do flow connections over it given the significant footprint they each have there. AA hasn't really considered JFK a connecting hub for years, at least since the merger with US. JFK for AA is all about O&D. Pre-pandemic, JFK was prone to delays due to congested airspace and more recently, runway redevelopment. As for connecting from DCA to HKG via JFK, that all sounds like your ticket wasn't issued as a true code-share itinerary. Terminal 8 is actually a really great place to connect if you have to. The DCA flight would have arrived at the midfield concourse most likely, and the CX flights often use that same section of T8. Even as JFK eventually is redeveloped with more unity between terminals, it will not be done to promote connections.


I called the EXP desk specifically to request this routing and they told me explicitly they would not do it. Maybe it was as you say due to JFK being prone to delays. They told me I had to buy two tickets, which I did...because I wanted that routing. This was before CX had an IAD flight, and I'd do it again if I wanted to fly CX F.


It would not have been due to JFK being "prone to delays". It was a routing you requested that typically isn't available for sale at the time and so they sold you two segments independent of each other.


I bought the CX flight from CX, so I was really rolling the dice I guess. It's kind of weird because in addition to the ORD and BOS routings they offered me all kinds of routings over LAX taking 30-40 hours.

I've also used AA DCA-JFK to connect to LX JFK-GVA, instead of connecting in Europe, but that's a different story and not the same alliance.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:17 am

Pellegrine wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

I called the EXP desk specifically to request this routing and they told me explicitly they would not do it. Maybe it was as you say due to JFK being prone to delays. They told me I had to buy two tickets, which I did...because I wanted that routing. This was before CX had an IAD flight, and I'd do it again if I wanted to fly CX F.


It would not have been due to JFK being "prone to delays". It was a routing you requested that typically isn't available for sale at the time and so they sold you two segments independent of each other.


I bought the CX flight from CX, so I was really rolling the dice I guess. It's kind of weird because in addition to the ORD and BOS routings they offered me all kinds of routings over LAX taking 30-40 hours.

I've also used AA DCA-JFK to connect to LX JFK-GVA, instead of connecting in Europe, but that's a different story and not the same alliance.


Have flown CX/AA combos on same itinerary in the past (HKG-ORD-LGA, HKG-LAX-JFK) without issue, bags checked through, boarding passes issued at origin.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:36 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
I bought the CX flight from CX, so I was really rolling the dice I guess. It's kind of weird because in addition to the ORD and BOS routings they offered me all kinds of routings over LAX taking 30-40 hours.

I've also used AA DCA-JFK to connect to LX JFK-GVA, instead of connecting in Europe, but that's a different story and not the same alliance.

Shame that CX didn't fly to PHL instead of EWR but it's mostly due to o/d reasons why. I think it would be way easier to connect in PHL than JFK but if there is no interline bag transfers than it's pointless to connect to any airport.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4661
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:15 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
I bought the CX flight from CX, so I was really rolling the dice I guess. It's kind of weird because in addition to the ORD and BOS routings they offered me all kinds of routings over LAX taking 30-40 hours.

I've also used AA DCA-JFK to connect to LX JFK-GVA, instead of connecting in Europe, but that's a different story and not the same alliance.

Shame that CX didn't fly to PHL instead of EWR but it's mostly due to o/d reasons why. I think it would be way easier to connect in PHL than JFK but if there is no interline bag transfers than it's pointless to connect to any airport.


Yields are likely stronger (pre-pandemic) ex EWR than PHL hence the decision for CX to have flown to EWR.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Why do American Airlines use PHL as their main East Coast hub instead of JFK?

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

It would not have been due to JFK being "prone to delays". It was a routing you requested that typically isn't available for sale at the time and so they sold you two segments independent of each other.


I bought the CX flight from CX, so I was really rolling the dice I guess. It's kind of weird because in addition to the ORD and BOS routings they offered me all kinds of routings over LAX taking 30-40 hours.

I've also used AA DCA-JFK to connect to LX JFK-GVA, instead of connecting in Europe, but that's a different story and not the same alliance.


Have flown CX/AA combos on same itinerary in the past (HKG-ORD-LGA, HKG-LAX-JFK) without issue, bags checked through, boarding passes issued at origin.

Personally, I'd never connect over ORD, and especially LAX. ORD is a long enough flight from DCA, and Transcon? Heck no. I want to be on CX/SQ/NH/JL as long as possible. I'd never take a transcon before a TPAC, there's enough options from the east coast.

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