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edealinfo
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Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:13 pm

Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

SpiceJet gets 14 weekly slot pairs which translates to 1 daily flight round trip

Vistara gets 28 weekly slot pairs which translates to 2 daily flight round trip

All flights are from New Delhi

As far as I know, they got it for free rather than purchasing or leasing the rights from other operators.

I am unclear what the value of the slots are. Can some venture a guestimate?

Also, can someone indicate the flight timings. Here is the link to the slot allocations:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -S21-1.pdf
 
Antarius
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:27 pm

They aren't usually cheap. New Zealand sold them for 27 million last year https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 7-million/

Oman Air bought some prime time slots for a record 75 million a few years ago.
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
CaptainHaresh
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:34 pm

Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Also, can someone indicate the flight timings.


From the Heathrow terminal finder: https://www.heathrow.com/at-the-airport ... h-terminal

Vistara:
UK15 arrive LHR at 6:55 AM
UK16 depart LHR at 10:10 AM

UK17 arrive LHR at 7:10 PM
UK18 depart LHR at 9:30 PM

SpiceJet:
SG9020 arrive LHR at 8:10 PM
SG9021 depart LHR at 10:10 PM
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:38 pm

Antarius wrote:
They aren't usually cheap. New Zealand sold them for 27 million last year https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 7-million/

Oman Air bought some prime time slots for a record 75 million a few years ago.


Ishrion wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Also, can someone indicate the flight timings.


From the Heathrow terminal finder: https://www.heathrow.com/at-the-airport ... h-terminal

Vistara:
UK15 arrive LHR at 6:55 AM
UK16 depart LHR at 10:10 AM

UK17 arrive LHR at 7:10 PM
UK18 depart LHR at 9:30 PM

SpiceJet:
SG9020 arrive LHR at 8:10 PM
SG9021 depart LHR at 10:10 PM


Many thanks.
Nice to know that Vistara got a morning and evening flight.

By the way, do you know how "prized" these slots are from a timing perspective?
 
behramjee
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:46 pm

SG needs to wet lease a WB aircraft for this operation. They are not in good financial shape even more so after the court case loss against Bombardier/DHC so it will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with this plan considering IATA S21 season officially started today !
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:49 pm

behramjee wrote:
SG needs to wet lease a WB aircraft for this operation. They are not in good financial shape even more so after the court case loss against Bombardier/DHC so it will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with this plan considering IATA S21 season officially started today !


Can't their repurpose their A340s leased from HiFly? It is originally a passenger aircraft, temporarily (?) repurposed for cargo so I assume it is a simple switch back to passenger version.
 
Antarius
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:21 am

behramjee wrote:
SG needs to wet lease a WB aircraft for this operation. They are not in good financial shape even more so after the court case loss against Bombardier/DHC so it will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with this plan considering IATA S21 season officially started today !


I have to assume a widebody lease right now is quite cheap.
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Let's all just use some common sense
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:27 am

behramjee wrote:
SG needs to wet lease a WB aircraft for this operation. They are not in good financial shape even more so after the court case loss against Bombardier/DHC so it will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with this plan considering IATA S21 season officially started today !

Well, according to Govt. of India, Spicejet is one of the two bidders for AI. So, however remote the chance of Spicejet acquiring AI, but if they do, they will have plenty of widebodies. Lol.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:49 am

DTWLAX wrote:
behramjee wrote:
SG needs to wet lease a WB aircraft for this operation. They are not in good financial shape even more so after the court case loss against Bombardier/DHC so it will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with this plan considering IATA S21 season officially started today !

Well, according to Govt. of India, Spicejet is one of the two bidders for AI. So, however remote the chance of Spicejet acquiring AI, but if they do, they will have plenty of widebodies. Lol.


And more LHR slots inherited from Air India.

By the way, just how many weekly round trip frequencies does Air India have to LHR?
 
chonetsao
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:53 am

SG slot is the normal 'unwanted' 'undesirable' late evening slot. The prime slots are early morning arrival and noon departures. In old market conditions, UK15/16 slot can be sold for 40-50 millions plus or minus. UK17/18 on another hand is sort of 'undesirable' for slot purchaser.

Still very interesting to see how UK and SG got the slots. Especially UK15/16 time slot, it is a dream for many airlines. Bag that slot is like winning the LHR lottery.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:58 am

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?


If they don't, then why would someone give them away ? Better to keep them just in case. I'm sure clauses that you need to use them to keep them are suspended right now.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sevenair
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


What on earth are you talking about?
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:52 am

chonetsao wrote:
SG slot is the normal 'unwanted' 'undesirable' late evening slot. The prime slots are early morning arrival and noon departures. In old market conditions, UK15/16 slot can be sold for 40-50 millions plus or minus. UK17/18 on another hand is sort of 'undesirable' for slot purchaser.

Still very interesting to see how UK and SG got the slots. Especially UK15/16 time slot, it is a dream for many airlines. Bag that slot is like winning the LHR lottery.


The evening slots are undesirable for most, but they will result in midday arrivals and afternoon departures from DEL. Similar to Virgin Atlantic’s schedule, these will be some of the few long haul departures not leaving India in the middle of the night. That should help with domestic connections.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:20 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


I’m laughing. There is so much demand for LHR that even IF some EU countries turn away from the UK (and there is no evidence this is happening in a meaningful way), other places will take their place. These slots being available are the result of less business travel overall. I think it is no accident that Vistara and Spice got these slots. Before it seemed like LHR’s focus was on new China routes. Now that VFR is the focus, LHR knows Indian tourists will be key part of that strategy. London is a natural destination for Indians who aren’t looking for exotic travel. On the flip side, British Indians who might be scaling back trips to exotic places would also consider going to India. Remember a ton of traffic from India goes via the ME. This is just a realignment to focusing on nonstop travel. And to the above comments on evening slots. While yes less desirable then other times, even evening slots were not available the last few years. So all three slots are a win with the morning slot a huge get

The bigger question is are these slots temporary allocations or permanent. I believe in previous schedules, Indian carriers were getting temporary slot allocations.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:42 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


Assumption is LHR and other congested super hubs will be a busy bees again in near future.

The other-side of the coin, COVID-19 changed premium travel market forever, corporations are directly/indirectly trying to communicate this to employees.

Also lot more P2P are being tried to reduce points of transmission. It would be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle and go back to Super-hub to Super-hub model for these congested airports continue to prosper.

Just my opinion, no think tanks were involved.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:10 pm

These slots are available because although airlines are being allowed to retain their historic slots for S21, they have to hand back what they don't intend to operate this season. So slots have become temporarily available, but when the historic operator reclaims them they will no longer be available to the new entrant.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
CaptainHaresh
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:32 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


I’m laughing. There is so much demand for LHR that even IF some EU countries turn away from the UK (and there is no evidence this is happening in a meaningful way), other places will take their place. These slots being available are the result of less business travel overall. I think it is no accident that Vistara and Spice got these slots. Before it seemed like LHR’s focus was on new China routes. Now that VFR is the focus, LHR knows Indian tourists will be key part of that strategy. London is a natural destination for Indians who aren’t looking for exotic travel. On the flip side, British Indians who might be scaling back trips to exotic places would also consider going to India. Remember a ton of traffic from India goes via the ME. This is just a realignment to focusing on nonstop travel. And to the above comments on evening slots. While yes less desirable then other times, even evening slots were not available the last few years. So all three slots are a win with the morning slot a huge get

The bigger question is are these slots temporary allocations or permanent. I believe in previous schedules, Indian carriers were getting temporary slot allocations.


You can laugh if it stops you from crying.
There WAS much demand for LHR, that’s before Covid and Brexit. In the shadow of Covid, the bulk of EU trading has moved out of London to never return. That exodus may not be apparent as business carries on on the net, but LHR and LCY may never see the 2019 peak ever again.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/i ... 607395.htm

The U.K. will not be less of a powerhouse for it, just saying that the glory days of LHR and London may never return because to Europeans, the U.K. has become another Ireland. An island up there that they don’t really care for anymore.

An example in airplane terms, Airbus isn’t going to be signing their deliveries over U.K. airspace like they used to anymore.
Things have changed where they affect the premium traffic and it’s no surprise that LHR is finding themselves offering slots to Indian LCC’s.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the next step for LHR is to open up slots for EasyJet U.K.
Last edited by CaptainHaresh on Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:45 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


Of course they hold value, which is why every carrier in the world is trying to get more including new entrants who can't get into LHR with meaningfully timed historical (or even non historical) slots.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:22 pm

Semi-related, let's discuss the trend, and the current winners - in slots to LHR:

JetBlue, of the U.S.A.:

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/jetblue-appears-to-secure-heathrow-slots-from-2-august/143077.article
JetBlue has been allocated an initial 14 slots weekly, according to ACL. That increases to 22 slots weekly on 13 September and 28 weekly from 20 September through the end of the summer season, on 30 October.


Bamboo Airways, of Vietnam: (proposed to use Terminal 2).

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jetblue-bamboo-airways-westjet-secure-london-heathrow-slots/
Bamboo Airways received slot allocation to fly six times a week to London Heathrow. Specifically, the Vietnamese low-cost carrier secured slots to fly to Ho Chi Minh City three times a week on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays and Hanoi three times a week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. At the start of May, the airline is eligible to utilize its slots.
Based on Heathrow’s Terminal Finder tool, both flights will arrive at 3:30 p.m. and depart at 5:40 p.m.


WestJet, of Canada: (proposed to use Terminal 2).

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jetblue-bamboo-airways-westjet-secure-london-heathrow-slots/
WestJet obtained slots to London Heathrow for daily flights to Calgary and Vancouver. The Canadian carrier was allocated 732 slots, allowing it to start services as soon as May 1. Currently, the low-cost Canadian airline has slots at neighboring Gatwick that allow four daily services a day to Calgary, Halifax, Toronto and Vancouver.
displays a slot for a 9 a.m. arrival and 11 a.m. departure for Vancouver service and 11:20 a.m. arrival and 1:20 p.m. departure for Calgary service.


RwandAir, of Rwanda:

https://simpleflying.com/new-heathrow-slots/
Rwandair, a growing African carrier, has also received some slots out of Heathrow


Loganair, of the U.K.:

https://simpleflying.com/new-heathrow-slots/Loganair, a regional airline in the UK, appears to have gotten a significant number of Heathrow slots and operations. Loganair is targeting regional routes out of Heathrow to Newquay, Teesside, and the Isle of Man.


For those interested in completed swap trades, consider:

https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/

Of note - is that there are current exemptions in place;

https://www.acl-uk.org/news/further-summer-2021-waiver-announcement/Following the further announcement on 26th February of the UK’s Secretary of State for Transport that legislation has been introduced (to come into force from 26 March 2021) to extend the waiver from the 80:20 slot usage rule to the Summer 2021 season but now without conditions


...so the Indian carriers, gaining slots - is noteworthy, and potentially market changing - however based on the news of other major arrivals to LHR, the news is thus a bit tempered.

Hopefully this can assist in providing some depth and reality to the currency of LHR.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:33 pm

The next relevant one now is BOM-LHR. Of course, if UK wins the bid for AI, it likely gets the slots AI holds abroad. The question would then be if UK wants the B788 fleet or the B77L/W fleet.
 
TC957
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:16 pm

SpiceJet was supposed to have started an LHR service last December already with a leased Hi-Fly A339. So this is their 2nd attempt at launching LHR.
 
catiii
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:53 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Semi-related, let's discuss the trend, and the current winners - in slots to LHR:

JetBlue, of the U.S.A.:

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/jetblue-appears-to-secure-heathrow-slots-from-2-august/143077.article
JetBlue has been allocated an initial 14 slots weekly, according to ACL. That increases to 22 slots weekly on 13 September and 28 weekly from 20 September through the end of the summer season, on 30 October.



The slots are only valid August 2nd to October 30th.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:10 pm

chonetsao wrote:
SG slot is the normal 'unwanted' 'undesirable' late evening slot. The prime slots are early morning arrival and noon departures. In old market conditions, UK15/16 slot can be sold for 40-50 millions plus or minus. UK17/18 on another hand is sort of 'undesirable' for slot purchaser.

Still very interesting to see how UK and SG got the slots. Especially UK15/16 time slot, it is a dream for many airlines. Bag that slot is like winning the LHR lottery.


Excellent insight. Thanks for sharing. Let's hope that UK realizes that one of its slot pairs is pure gold.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:20 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Also lot more P2P are being tried to reduce points of transmission. .


Do you have a listing of all non-stop flights from India to the US by US carriers for the winter'21 season starting in October 21'? Thanks in advance.

Separately, did Delta drop their non stop flights to India?
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
SG slot is the normal 'unwanted' 'undesirable' late evening slot. The prime slots are early morning arrival and noon departures. In old market conditions, UK15/16 slot can be sold for 40-50 millions plus or minus. UK17/18 on another hand is sort of 'undesirable' for slot purchaser.

Still very interesting to see how UK and SG got the slots. Especially UK15/16 time slot, it is a dream for many airlines. Bag that slot is like winning the LHR lottery.


Excellent insight. Thanks for sharing. Let's hope that UK realizes that one of its slot pairs is pure gold.


May be as a future value for Vistara, 15/16 is more valuable if UK air regulator allows it to remain with Vistara. But in terms of traffic potential 17/18 may be better as it facilitates connections at DEL in addition to O&D, while 15/16 is pure O&D.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:22 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Still very interesting to see how UK and SG got the slots. Especially UK15/16 time slot, it is a dream for many airlines. Bag that slot is like winning the LHR lottery.



Thanks.
CaliguyNYC wrote:
The bigger question is are these slots temporary allocations or permanent. I believe in previous schedules, Indian carriers were getting temporary slot allocations.

I would think they are permanent and the Indian carriers got extremely luck. There is nothing to suggest these are temporary. I would liek others to chime in.

Crosswind wrote:
These slots are available because although airlines are being allowed to retain their historic slots for S21, they have to hand back what they don't intend to operate this season. So slots have become temporarily available, but when the historic operator reclaims them they will no longer be available to the new entrant.
Regards
CROSSWIND


So, are you saying that the SpriceJet and Vistara slots are temporary. I think not. What you stated are general comments not necessarily related to SpiceJet and Vistara's slots in particular.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:31 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
The bigger question is are these slots temporary allocations or permanent. I believe in previous schedules, Indian carriers were getting temporary slot allocations.

I do believe these are still temporary ones. If they were permanent slots handed to SG/UK, there would be a huge news outbreak over it. SG looks for any kind of useful PR, to flaunt their company.

My best guess is the LHR slot coordinator is handing out unused slots of other airlines for free for a limited timeframe. This would allow LHR to earn more revenue from new flight operations rather than none from those unused slots.
So it may not be a direct lease-out from another airline, who owns the slot, for a charge.

Something similar at BOM, where some airlines (like AirAsia India) currently have more domestic slots at BOM than pre-covid era, that too at useful timings. These may be temporarily handed out by the airport operator, till the original slot users will resume ops at the said airport. Otherwise, there was no way any airline could get new domestic slots at BOM!
Also the "use it or lose it" rule has been relaxed for now, so the earlier slot users can reclaim them in future.
 
IADCA
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:33 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Antarius wrote:
They aren't usually cheap. New Zealand sold them for 27 million last year https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 7-million/

Oman Air bought some prime time slots for a record 75 million a few years ago.


Ishrion wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Also, can someone indicate the flight timings.


From the Heathrow terminal finder: https://www.heathrow.com/at-the-airport ... h-terminal

Vistara:
UK15 arrive LHR at 6:55 AM
UK16 depart LHR at 10:10 AM

UK17 arrive LHR at 7:10 PM
UK18 depart LHR at 9:30 PM

SpiceJet:
SG9020 arrive LHR at 8:10 PM
SG9021 depart LHR at 10:10 PM


Many thanks.
Nice to know that Vistara got a morning and evening flight.

By the way, do you know how "prized" these slots are from a timing perspective?


As others have mentioned, that morning slot for Vistara is really valuable. That feeds nicely with North America timings and the landing time allows people to sleep onboard and head right into the office. While their lack of an alliance will probably lessen the number of connections by a lot versus a straight interline, they should snag a few. And that time will be easy to turn into money should they need to and be permitted to sell.
Last edited by IADCA on Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
raptors
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:34 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?
They were hot commodities when everything ran like clockwork, it may take a while to get back up there and it’s not sure that airlines and pax will flock back to LHR.
Covid will rearrange many things and in the meanwhile Brexit has quietly happened and trade is going to shift a lot.
The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


At the moment the the airport is quite but if the world does indeed get back to normal then rest assured LHR will be back to being slot congested.
Brexit has happened and new trade deals will be struck thereby increasing the chances of more airfreight being flown in to the airport.
The UK has always been an island, well for the last several million years anyway. There are plenty of people wanting to visit the UK, including plenty of Europeans too! Hard to believe, I know!
London a niche market too inconvenient to bother with? Really?
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edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:37 pm

avier wrote:
So it may not be a direct lease-out from another airline, who owns the slot, for a charge.
.


This we know as a fact is true. The Vistara and Spicejet slots do not show up as a slot swap among carriers.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:40 pm

IADCA wrote:
As others have mentioned, that morning slot for Vistara is really valuable. That feeds nicely with North America timings and the landing time allows people to sleep onboard and head right into the office. While their lack of an alliance will probably lessen the number of connections by a lot versus a straight interline, they should snag a few. And that time will be easy to turn into money should they need to and be permitted to sell.


Isn't Vistara starting direct flights to the US? I read a report in the past 2 weeks that they have asked Boeing for their yet to be delivered 787s to have a crew rest area (meaning = non stop US flights). I don't know when those planes will be delivered and when service will commence.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:55 pm

edealinfo wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Also lot more P2P are being tried to reduce points of transmission. .


Do you have a listing of all non-stop flights from India to the US by US carriers for the winter'21 season starting in October 21'? Thanks in advance.

Separately, did Delta drop their non stop flights to India?


No I don't have W12 schedule.
Yes, Delta did drop all India non-stop flight.
All posts are just opinions.
 
IADCA
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:55 pm

edealinfo wrote:
IADCA wrote:
As others have mentioned, that morning slot for Vistara is really valuable. That feeds nicely with North America timings and the landing time allows people to sleep onboard and head right into the office. While their lack of an alliance will probably lessen the number of connections by a lot versus a straight interline, they should snag a few. And that time will be easy to turn into money should they need to and be permitted to sell.


Isn't Vistara starting direct flights to the US? I read a report in the past 2 weeks that they have asked Boeing for their yet to be delivered 787s to have a crew rest area (meaning = non stop US flights). I don't know when those planes will be delivered and when service will commence.


I don't know, but it's still not a bad thing to be able to take interline connections at LHR. There are a lot more North American cities that have flights to LHR landing in that time window than Vistara would ever serve directly. I mean, sure, they might hit NYC, Chicago, Toronto (or other top-tier NA markets to India) but they're not likely going to be flying to places like CLT, ATL, or PHL (just examples), which would have the possibility of generating interline connections.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Yes, Delta did drop all India non-stop flight.


So, does United have the monopoly now among US carriers? And, is is a direct United vs Air India fight?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:06 pm

IADCA wrote:
I don't know, but it's still not a bad thing to be able to take interline connections at LHR. There are a lot more North American cities that have flights to LHR landing in that time window than Vistara would ever serve directly. I mean, sure, they might hit NYC, Chicago, Toronto (or other top-tier NA markets to India) but they're not likely going to be flying to places like CLT, ATL, or PHL (just examples), which would have the possibility of generating interline connections.


How relevant are the connections at this time? Doesn't India require travel between North America and India to be non stop under their air "bubble" agreement?
Last edited by edealinfo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:07 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Yes, Delta did drop all India non-stop flight.


Have they given any indication of when they intend to return?
 
IADCA
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:26 pm

edealinfo wrote:
IADCA wrote:
I don't know, but it's still not a bad thing to be able to take interline connections at LHR. There are a lot more North American cities that have flights to LHR landing in that time window than Vistara would ever serve directly. I mean, sure, they might hit NYC, Chicago, Toronto (or other top-tier NA markets to India) but they're not likely going to be flying to places like CLT, ATL, or PHL (just examples), which would have the possibility of generating interline connections.


How relevant are the connections at this time? Doesn't India require travel between North America and India to be non stop under their air "bubble" agreement?


Not relevant at present for the reason you mention. Relevant longer-term.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:07 pm

Vistara Reportedly Seeks Boeing 787 Crew Rest Area For Longer Flights

https://simpleflying.com/vistara-boeing-787-crew-rest/

"Vistara is currently working with Boeing to possibly add crew rest areas to some of the four 787-9s remaining for delivery. This would allow the Dreamliner to fly to its maximum range and include routes to the US (East and West coast), Canada, Australia, and many more.

Vistara intends on completing its 787 order by the end of the year, which means it could have the ability to fly longer routes fairly soon. Data from Planespotters.net shows that three 787-9s have been produced (VT-TSH, -TSN, and one unregistered) and will be delivered in the coming months."

And, here are 2 conflicting statements in the same article!

"The first would be direct flights to the US, which will become a possibility with a crew rest area. Routes like Delhi/Mumbai to New York or San Francisco are all popular with passengers and are seeing growing connectivity.

The carrier has hinted at direct US flights in the past but has never made a firm commitment to the route. Considering the current situation, it’s unlikely new ultra-long-haul flights will be added soon."
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:30 pm

Here is the status of Vistara's 787 production link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dit#gid=49
What I don't get is that I thought Vista had 6 firm orders and 4 options. (All 6 were to be delivered in 2020 and 2021). Why has Boeing produced more than the firm orders?

2 have been delivered
3 are in storage
3 are in "production testing"
2 are yet to be produced
 
TC957
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:42 pm

Probably because some were orders from " unannounced " customers. Vistara may not have wanted other Indian airlines to know of their expansion plans, hence asking Boeing to keep some firm orders as unidentifyed.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:12 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The next relevant one now is BOM-LHR. Of course, if UK wins the bid for AI, it likely gets the slots AI holds abroad. The question would then be if UK wants the B788 fleet or the B77L/W fleet.

Why would they not want the 77Ws? Their current 789s are not equipped for NA flights IIRC (no crew rest?) and the 77Ws will give them enough breathing space until they can modify their upcoming 789 orders. AI 77Ws are already doing India - NA on a regular basis and they will get to hold on to the slots that way. The 77L is a whole new conversation.
 
pranav7478
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:20 pm

i wonder how vistara and spicejet got some slots when jetblue got none. just a thought...
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edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:34 pm

pranav7478 wrote:
i wonder how vistara and spicejet got some slots when jetblue got none. just a thought...


JetBlue did get LHR slots. Probably one of the biggest beneficiaries! They got a whopping 270 slots.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jet ... row-slots/
 
Vicenza
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:00 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Do LHR slots even hold any value anymore?

The U.K. has now become an island up there that Europeans don’t care for.
A niche market that’s too inconvenient to bother.

LHR may never fully recover from this crisis.


Am definitely curious where you arrive at such absolute laughable nonsense....and you well know it to be!
 
CaptainHaresh
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Semi-related, let's discuss the trend, and the current winners - in slots to LHR:

JetBlue, of the U.S.A.:

https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/jetblue-appears-to-secure-heathrow-slots-from-2-august/143077.article
JetBlue has been allocated an initial 14 slots weekly, according to ACL. That increases to 22 slots weekly on 13 September and 28 weekly from 20 September through the end of the summer season, on 30 October.


Bamboo Airways, of Vietnam: (proposed to use Terminal 2).

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jetblue-bamboo-airways-westjet-secure-london-heathrow-slots/
Bamboo Airways received slot allocation to fly six times a week to London Heathrow. Specifically, the Vietnamese low-cost carrier secured slots to fly to Ho Chi Minh City three times a week on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays and Hanoi three times a week on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. At the start of May, the airline is eligible to utilize its slots.
Based on Heathrow’s Terminal Finder tool, both flights will arrive at 3:30 p.m. and depart at 5:40 p.m.


WestJet, of Canada: (proposed to use Terminal 2).

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jetblue-bamboo-airways-westjet-secure-london-heathrow-slots/
WestJet obtained slots to London Heathrow for daily flights to Calgary and Vancouver. The Canadian carrier was allocated 732 slots, allowing it to start services as soon as May 1. Currently, the low-cost Canadian airline has slots at neighboring Gatwick that allow four daily services a day to Calgary, Halifax, Toronto and Vancouver.
displays a slot for a 9 a.m. arrival and 11 a.m. departure for Vancouver service and 11:20 a.m. arrival and 1:20 p.m. departure for Calgary service.


RwandAir, of Rwanda:

https://simpleflying.com/new-heathrow-slots/
Rwandair, a growing African carrier, has also received some slots out of Heathrow


Loganair, of the U.K.:

https://simpleflying.com/new-heathrow-slots/Loganair, a regional airline in the UK, appears to have gotten a significant number of Heathrow slots and operations. Loganair is targeting regional routes out of Heathrow to Newquay, Teesside, and the Isle of Man.


For those interested in completed swap trades, consider:

https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/

Of note - is that there are current exemptions in place;

https://www.acl-uk.org/news/further-summer-2021-waiver-announcement/Following the further announcement on 26th February of the UK’s Secretary of State for Transport that legislation has been introduced (to come into force from 26 March 2021) to extend the waiver from the 80:20 slot usage rule to the Summer 2021 season but now without conditions


...so the Indian carriers, gaining slots - is noteworthy, and potentially market changing - however based on the news of other major arrivals to LHR, the news is thus a bit tempered.

Hopefully this can assist in providing some depth and reality to the currency of LHR.


Jetblue - Hybrid LCC
Bamboo - LCC
Westjet - Hybrid LCC
Rwandair - niche
Loganair - Regional
Vistara - Hybrid LCC
Spicejet - LCC

Yes indeed, this should make people realize where LHR is headed.

1.3 million migrant workers have left the UK in 2020.
London has lost shy of 10% of its population.
It's a mass exodus.

Welcome to a new reality.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dus-brexit
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:58 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:
Jetblue - Hybrid LCC
Bamboo - LCC
Westjet - Hybrid LCC
Rwandair - niche
Loganair - Regional
Vistara - Hybrid LCC
Spicejet - LCC

Yes indeed, this should make people realize where LHR is headed.

1.3 million migrant workers have left the UK in 2020.
London has lost shy of 10% of its population.
It's a mass exodus.

Welcome to a new reality.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dus-brexit


Thanks for all the info and superb perspective

I didn't know that London lost 10% of its population. That's huge!

Separately, are you positive that Vistara is hybrid LCC? I thought it is full service that engaged in occasional discounting. Regardless, why should the LHR slot allocation authority decide to give allocations based on the business model of carriers? It's none of their business!

Do you know if the Vistara slots are temporary or a permanent allocation?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:03 pm

By the way, what is the status of LHR's third runway?
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:57 pm

edealinfo wrote:
pranav7478 wrote:
i wonder how vistara and spicejet got some slots when jetblue got none. just a thought...


JetBlue did get LHR slots. Probably one of the biggest beneficiaries! They got a whopping 270 slots.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/03/27/jet ... row-slots/


Not sure but I think Jet Blue’s 270 slots are the total slots over the summer schedule. How many flights per day do we think they got? I am only hearing about a flight to JFK and BOS. Anyone know?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Indian Carriers Vistara and SpiceJet Bag Coveted London Heathrow LHR Slots for S21

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:02 pm

Westjet flies LGW usually..Did they get LHR slots too?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..

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