Good news for pilots? I know a pilot who flew for them and is overjoyed that he got out.

So, Ryanair is raising funds... I wonder how much revenue they expect from all those job applicants

oldJoe wrote:

Good news for pilots? I know a pilot who flew for them and is overjoyed that he got out.

If you are jobless and money is running low, it is good news, if you have 200 hours and nobody else is hiring is good news, take the Type rating like a university Master, I don't know how much is it, but it's a hurdle that nowadays in Europe is very common, unless JAA do anything about it, I don't think you will see FR changing a cm because they don't have to, in the best case, they will do like Wizzair and give you the option to bond you for 3 or 5 years , we can discuss a lot but I am pretty sure many people will be happy because this can be a new beginning or even a lifeboat.

I have few mates flying there and they are very happy, you can find all kind of opinions, same like every airlines or every single job.

AirPacific747 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Do the new pilots have to pay for their own training?

Yes of course. And their uniforms.

Of course they will have to, and hotel when going simulator, and pay for the interview, you know the deal before committing, at least they are clear with that.

seb76 wrote:

So, Ryanair is raising funds... I wonder how much revenue they expect from all those job applicants

...enough to pay the ones they hire for maybe a year? Oh- and send them to Butlin's Mosney for a long weekend.

migair54 wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

Good news for pilots? I know a pilot who flew for them and is overjoyed that he got out.

If you are jobless and money is running low, it is good news, if you have 200 hours and nobody else is hiring is good news, take the Type rating like a university Master, I don't know how much is it, but it's a hurdle that nowadays in Europe is very common, unless JAA do anything about it, I don't think you will see FR changing a cm because they don't have to, in the best case, they will do like Wizzair and give you the option to bond you for 3 or 5 years , we can discuss a lot but I am pretty sure many people will be happy because this can be a new beginning or even a lifeboat.

I have few mates flying there and they are very happy, you can find all kind of opinions, same like every airlines or every single job.

AirPacific747 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Do the new pilots have to pay for their own training?

Yes of course. And their uniforms.

Of course they will have to, and hotel when going simulator, and pay for the interview, you know the deal before committing, at least they are clear with that.

There is one thing I absolutely do not understand here! If you are jobless and money is running low from which money they want to pay training, uniforms, hotel for sim and even interview ? The only good news would be that Ryanair has found enough stupid ones to waste money pointlessly !

You mean the same Ryanair that went around terminating contracts last year? "You're welcome to return anytime - for 20% less pay"

People here often hate on US Scope clauses, but here’s what you get without those contracts.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

People here often hate on US Scope clauses, but here’s what you get without those contracts.

I'd add onto that, pilot unions. Without collective bargaining, this is the result.

oldJoe wrote:

migair54 wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

Good news for pilots? I know a pilot who flew for them and is overjoyed that he got out.

If you are jobless and money is running low, it is good news, if you have 200 hours and nobody else is hiring is good news, take the Type rating like a university Master, I don't know how much is it, but it's a hurdle that nowadays in Europe is very common, unless JAA do anything about it, I don't think you will see FR changing a cm because they don't have to, in the best case, they will do like Wizzair and give you the option to bond you for 3 or 5 years , we can discuss a lot but I am pretty sure many people will be happy because this can be a new beginning or even a lifeboat.

I have few mates flying there and they are very happy, you can find all kind of opinions, same like every airlines or every single job.

AirPacific747 wrote:

Yes of course. And their uniforms.

Of course they will have to, and hotel when going simulator, and pay for the interview, you know the deal before committing, at least they are clear with that.

There is one thing I absolutely do not understand here! If you are jobless and money is running low from which money they want to pay training, uniforms, hotel for sim and even interview ? The only good news would be that Ryanair has found enough stupid ones to waste money pointlessly !

They deduct all the expenses from your salary for a certain time period. Probably three years or so. It’s a win win for Ryanair. That way they make sure you’re not going anywhere else for at least the same time period.

If you are a newbie pilot in Europe you have not many choices left to start a flying career these days. Flying a lot and doing many takeoffs and landings yourself you collect your flight hours fast with FR making you more "valuable" on the market and ready for the next career steps.
So this IS good news for the industry and for pilots. Many Ryanair pilots still move on to other airlines later on for some reason.

AirPacific747 wrote:

They deduct all the expenses from your salary for a certain time period. Probably three years or so. It’s a win win for Ryanair. That way they make sure you’re not going anywhere else for at least the same time period.

Salary? Or invoice? I guess the second one as FR do not tend to sign labour contracts as employer-employee, but rather as customer-provider(freelance)

It’s still incredible they get around with it with all the safety rules, aviation has to comply with…

Aisak wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

They deduct all the expenses from your salary for a certain time period. Probably three years or so. It’s a win win for Ryanair. That way they make sure you’re not going anywhere else for at least the same time period.

Salary? Or invoice? I guess the second one as FR do not tend to sign labour contracts as employer-employee, but rather as customer-provider(freelance)

It’s still incredible they get around with it with all the safety rules, aviation has to comply with…

Indeed. And it’s not because pilots haven’t tried making aware of these issues. But in case of Ryanair, it’s because Ryanair has a tremendous influence on the IAA (Irish aviation authorities). Sometimes we’re saying in jest, Ryanair basically owns the IAA

Simply not possible to do anything right if you are FR! The fact remains they are hiring and that is good news. They will return more rapidly to normal operations and that is good news. And for sure they will expand and that too is good news.

I know at least two students who have just completed their training and are hoping to get into Ryanair. They seem fully versed in all FR requirements and have no problem.

I wonder if hostile environment negotiating is now part of the training ?

Fliplot wrote:

Simply not possible to do anything right if you are FR! The fact remains they are hiring and that is good news. They will return more rapidly to normal operations and that is good news. And for sure they will expand and that too is good news.

I know at least two students who have just completed their training and are hoping to get into Ryanair. They seem fully versed in all FR requirements and have no problem.

Agree with you... up to a certain extent.

If FR is hiring pilots (and finding them) at rock bottom salaries (and poor working conditions), then, in the long run, it's not good for the profession and for the community as well.
It's a cath-22, with no clear-cut answer.

Not sure FR flight crew have poor working conditions? I believe most pilots would prefer being home at night and have a five on and four off routine. I also believe that the total pay package is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Otherwise why would thousands of pilots fly for Ryanair?
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or is it?

I would be surprised if the IAA were the down town office of FR! Over the years I remember some unpleasant disagreements between the two and a lots of name calling!
Like it or not FR are a very safe airline with over 450 aircraft. They must be doing something right!

Aisak wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

They deduct all the expenses from your salary for a certain time period. Probably three years or so. It’s a win win for Ryanair. That way they make sure you’re not going anywhere else for at least the same time period.

Salary? Or invoice? I guess the second one as FR do not tend to sign labour contracts as employer-employee, but rather as customer-provider(freelance)

It’s still incredible they get around with it with all the safety rules, aviation has to comply with…

What has safety rules in aviation got to do with how any airline hires staff, and thus what do you find 'incredible'?

WayexTDI wrote:

Fliplot wrote:

Simply not possible to do anything right if you are FR! The fact remains they are hiring and that is good news. They will return more rapidly to normal operations and that is good news. And for sure they will expand and that too is good news.

I know at least two students who have just completed their training and are hoping to get into Ryanair. They seem fully versed in all FR requirements and have no problem.

Agree with you... up to a certain extent.

If FR is hiring pilots (and finding them) at rock bottom salaries (and poor working conditions), then, in the long run, it's not good for the profession and for the community as well.
It's a cath-22, with no clear-cut answer.

Why not, and what salary a person chooses to work for is entirely up to that individual? How do you justify telling them what they should, or should not do? Indeed, what has the community got to do with it? Name me an airline (or any company for that matter) which pays any staff, even pilots, more than they have to?

oldJoe wrote:

Of course they will have to, and hotel when going simulator, and pay for the interview, you know the deal before committing, at least they are clear with that.

There is one thing I absolutely do not understand here! If you are jobless and money is running low from which money they want to pay training, uniforms, hotel for sim and even interview ? The only good news would be that Ryanair has found enough stupid ones to waste money pointlessly ![/quote]

Sorry, but I'm really struggling to understand what you don't seem to understand, and really can't decide if you're serious. If one is jobless, and money running low or otherwise, it is not an airline's responsibility to pay for the training for a job one has chosen to apply for. We hear repeatedly on a.net that airlines are not charities, yet you seem to suddenly expect them to be. I'm curious how you decide that anyone who chooses to become a pilot is 'stupid' for wasting money to do so. On what grounds do you claim that?

Vicenza wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

Fliplot wrote:

Simply not possible to do anything right if you are FR! The fact remains they are hiring and that is good news. They will return more rapidly to normal operations and that is good news. And for sure they will expand and that too is good news.

I know at least two students who have just completed their training and are hoping to get into Ryanair. They seem fully versed in all FR requirements and have no problem.

Agree with you... up to a certain extent.

If FR is hiring pilots (and finding them) at rock bottom salaries (and poor working conditions), then, in the long run, it's not good for the profession and for the community as well.
It's a cath-22, with no clear-cut answer.

Why not, and what salary a person chooses to work for is entirely up to that individual? How do you justify telling them what they should, or should not do? Indeed, what has the community got to do with it? Name me an airline (or any company for that matter) which pays any staff, even pilots, more than they have to?

No company (or almost no company) pays staff MORE than they have to; but some pay way less than their competitors do. And by pay, I mean actual pay, benefits, quality of life, etc.
Point in case: Amazon warehouse workers are paid $15+ an hour (more than twice the minimum Federal wage in the US which is $7.25). However, they are treated worse than dirt and quit in drove (turnover is extremely high); so, given the working conditions and quality of life, they pay less than they should. And there are many more examples like that.

Flying for Ryan Air seems like the equivalent of driving a bus for the NYC MTA. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were charged for a soda on board.

Vicenza wrote:

Aisak wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

They deduct all the expenses from your salary for a certain time period. Probably three years or so. It’s a win win for Ryanair. That way they make sure you’re not going anywhere else for at least the same time period.

Salary? Or invoice? I guess the second one as FR do not tend to sign labour contracts as employer-employee, but rather as customer-provider(freelance)

It’s still incredible they get around with it with all the safety rules, aviation has to comply with…

What has safety rules in aviation got to do with how any airline hires staff, and thus what do you find 'incredible'?

Maybe not the hiring process, but trust me. You don’t want to call in sick if you’re only feeling a little sick. Even if the airlines’ internal rules and the aviation regulations say otherwise.
There’s a pressure on you to show up at work. A friend of mine who worked for them even got calls from the management when he was on standby just to make sure if he was available. If they can see from your company iPad location that you’re not ready for duty at your base, they will invite you for “tea and biscuits” at the HQ in Dublin. It happened to the guy I know even if they won’t publicly acknowledge that they use that method.

WayexTDI wrote:

No company (or almost no company) pays staff MORE than they have to; but some pay way less than their competitors do. And by pay, I mean actual pay, benefits, quality of life, etc.
Point in case: Amazon warehouse workers are paid $15+ an hour (more than twice the minimum Federal wage in the US which is $7.25). However, they are treated worse than dirt and quit in drove (turnover is extremely high); so, given the working conditions and quality of life, they pay less than they should. And there are many more examples like that.

Ryanair will pay market wages for its work conditions - enough to acquire and retain staff for its growth plans. That other carriers pay more (in the same geography) just shows the extractive power of unions. Do you want to pay too much for everything you buy? Few people do.

MIflyer12 wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

No company (or almost no company) pays staff MORE than they have to; but some pay way less than their competitors do. And by pay, I mean actual pay, benefits, quality of life, etc.
Point in case: Amazon warehouse workers are paid $15+ an hour (more than twice the minimum Federal wage in the US which is $7.25). However, they are treated worse than dirt and quit in drove (turnover is extremely high); so, given the working conditions and quality of life, they pay less than they should. And there are many more examples like that.

Ryanair will pay market wages for its work conditions - enough to acquire and retain staff for its growth plans. That other carriers pay more (in the same geography) just shows the extractive power of unions. Do you want to pay too much for everything you buy? Few people do.

A line job like pilot is ridiculous without collective bargaining. Is each pilot supposed to go into the CEOs office and negotiate their salary individually? Negotiating your salary is a basic labor practice

AirPacific747 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Do the new pilots have to pay for their own training?

Yes of course. And their uniforms.

And their toilet paper.

At times of disruption, it's the pests that are the most successful. Like weeds after a drought.

MIflyer12 wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

No company (or almost no company) pays staff MORE than they have to; but some pay way less than their competitors do. And by pay, I mean actual pay, benefits, quality of life, etc.
Point in case: Amazon warehouse workers are paid $15+ an hour (more than twice the minimum Federal wage in the US which is $7.25). However, they are treated worse than dirt and quit in drove (turnover is extremely high); so, given the working conditions and quality of life, they pay less than they should. And there are many more examples like that.

Ryanair will pay market wages for its work conditions - enough to acquire and retain staff for its growth plans. That other carriers pay more (in the same geography) just shows the extractive power of unions. Do you want to pay too much for everything you buy? Few people do.

From what we read, Ryanair pays market wages with worse benefit/living conditions; which, overall, make the overall offer below market (see the Amazon example).

Fliplot wrote:

I also believe that the total pay package is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Otherwise why would thousands of pilots fly for Ryanair?

Replace the last part with: Work for Amazon, Work for Walmart, Work for McDonalds, or any other crappy place to work and the phrase makes just as much sense.

Kinda of like how Emirates and Qatar pays their crews a okay wage but the work conditions and the way pilots are treated is horrible due to the lack of CBA. I know based on the conversations I’ve had with my simulator partner who is a former A380 Captain and Sim instructor who was a former Qatar 777 Captain and other stories I’ve heard from expat pilots.

Reading this thread it seems like the answer is simple, pay all entry level pilots like senior captains at legacy airlines.

Vicenza wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

Of course they will have to, and hotel when going simulator, and pay for the interview, you know the deal before committing, at least they are clear with that.

There is one thing I absolutely do not understand here! If you are jobless and money is running low from which money they want to pay training, uniforms, hotel for sim and even interview ? The only good news would be that Ryanair has found enough stupid ones to waste money pointlessly !

Sorry, but I'm really struggling to understand what you don't seem to understand, and really can't decide if you're serious. If one is jobless, and money running low or otherwise, it is not an airline's responsibility to pay for the training for a job one has chosen to apply for. We hear repeatedly on a.net that airlines are not charities, yet you seem to suddenly expect them to be. I'm curious how you decide that anyone who chooses to become a pilot is 'stupid' for wasting money to do so. On what grounds do you claim that?[/quote]

If someone classifies me as not serious then please! I had my first flight long before Ryanair existed, by the way. If they can't finance an education like Lufthansa, poor airline, for example. No, airlines are not charities, but they should take care of the future of their employees, because they bring in their future profits.
A friend of mine completed his pilot training at LH a few years ago and LH advanced € 50k of the costs of 62k, which are then paid back in monthly installments with a guaranteed contract under German social laws !
Can your beloved airline keep up? Definitely not with the dubious contracts and subsidies.
And no, I didn't say that everyone who want becomes a pilot is stupid !!!
No matter if pilot or FA, they all want to lead a normal, regulated and above all socially secure life like us and that is not possible with Ryanair in my opinion

airzona11 wrote:

Reading this thread it seems like the answer is simple, pay all entry level pilots like senior captains at legacy airlines.

No you’re misunderstanding the issue. It’s not a pay issue. Ryanair actually pays well*

*once you’ve paid for your interview, uniform and rating.

It’s everything else surrounding the airline and the way they use management by fear.

And yet, for all the negativity, FR remains one of the most sucessful airlines in the wporld - in terms of safety, numbers of passengers and flight hours flown.

And for the record I paid for all my own eductation up to and including my masters and gosh I buy my own suits and shirts. I even work considerably more than 900 hours a year!

Grow up and join the real world!

426Shadow wrote:

Fliplot wrote:

I also believe that the total pay package is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Otherwise why would thousands of pilots fly for Ryanair?

Replace the last part with: Work for Amazon, Work for Walmart, Work for McDonalds, or any other crappy place to work and the phrase makes just as much sense.

I think you can add another factor that aviation has and those companies you mention have not : it's the dream job of many people, so some may be willing to do it (almost) whatever it implies.

Fliplot wrote:

And yet, for all the negativity, FR remains one of the most sucessful airlines in the wporld - in terms of safety, numbers of passengers and flight hours flown.

Being a successful business and being a good job provider is not the same. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Look behind the facade of many companies and airlines and you will find reality being much different from the image. Including strict hierarchies, old boy's networks and formalism. What Ryanair certainly can improve is their dealing with unions, however it seems to have been improved somehow, what they do well is access for people from different backgrounds. And they are a role model for efficient use of a modern fleet with reliable operations at low prices.

Fliplot wrote:

And for the record I paid for all my own eductation up to and including my masters and gosh I buy my own suits and shirts. I even work considerably more than 900 hours a year!

Grow up and join the real world!

Me too!

And I have to pay for my water, soda or coffee at the office, too.

And for those, who compare LH salaries and training with FR:

The big difference is: FR is hiring, LH not. If you can get a job as a pilot at LH, it would surely be better than FR but how are the chances to get a LH job?

I believe the issue is that FR has dared to make its flight crew "ordinary" workers. It has not created an elite group and that is not the norm. I am not nor have ever been a union person. Never saw the need. FR as a company can still, thankfully, choose to be unionised or not. Yet it is unionised in a number of locations - especially pilots!

A sucessful company has a better chance of survival no matter how you imagine it treats people. The point is well made - who is hiring snd who is not. Rememver FR is also supposed to be nasty to it's passenger base and yet carries the greatest number of passengers in Europe!
Welcome to the new world of flying!

426Shadow wrote:

Fliplot wrote:

I also believe that the total pay package is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Otherwise why would thousands of pilots fly for Ryanair?

Replace the last part with: Work for Amazon, Work for Walmart, Work for McDonalds, or any other crappy place to work and the phrase makes just as much sense.

... despites their drastic pay increase ($20/hr for Amazon now, almost triple the minimum Federal Wage in the US).
COVID has shown employees that they do have some power on employment as well (it's not just in the hand of employers); jobs with terrible "total pay package" (not only wages, but also benefits and quality of life/worklife) are having a hard time hiring back because they mistreated employees for decades.

Fliplot wrote:

And yet, for all the negativity, FR remains one of the most sucessful airlines in the wporld - in terms of safety, numbers of passengers and flight hours flown.

And for the record I paid for all my own eductation up to and including my masters and gosh I buy my own suits and shirts. I even work considerably more than 900 hours a year!

Grow up and join the real world!

The Ford Pinto was a terrible car, prone to catching fire when in an accident; yet they managed to sell over 3 millions of them in a 10-year period. Your point?

Carrying millions of passengers per year doesn't mean you're treating them, or your employees, with respect; but you're the cheapest and people have decided to vote with their wallet (even if they will complain afterwards). I, too, have decided to vote with my wallet and will do all my best to avoid flying Ryanair, Spirit or even Southwest (they were a major pain to us as a supplier); unfortunately, many others don't do that and see they can save a buck or two...

Fliplot wrote:

FR as a company can still, thankfully, choose to be unionised or not.

This is not completely true: every worker has (at least in EU countries) the right to be member of an union. And in many countries, if a sufficient proportion of workers (or of a precise category of workers) are member of an union, the company has, by law, to bargain with them. So no, in EU at least, a company is not completely free to chose whether to unionise or not.

migair54 wrote:

I just saw this article in the Spanish media.

https://okdiario.com/economia/ryanair-c ... ia-7502781

Highlights

-2000 pilots to be hired in the next 3 years.
-starting shortly to have some pilots ready for the next summer season in all the bases across Europe.
-agreement with Airline flight academy of Dublin for the training.
-looking for 200 million pax by 2024.
-the new hires will allow FR to grow also the new B737-8200 Gamechange (737MAX)

Really good news for the European pilots after a difficult year with mostly bad news.

Best of my knowledge FR does not employ crew, this is to my understanding to bypass laws regarding retirement schemes. My understanding is crew are setup as independent contractors.

What happens in the long run is these contractors have not received employee contributions to retirement schemes, when they go to retire have no retirement fund, s it is left to the public to fund their retirement. This is fundamentally wrong in my view.

airzona11 wrote:

Reading this thread it seems like the answer is simple, pay all entry level pilots like senior captains at legacy airlines.

No the answer is not making your employee pay for their own training

That pay for your own training thing has become a reality for many pilots. Aside from a very limited number of legacy airlines it is non existent today.

AirPacific747 wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Reading this thread it seems like the answer is simple, pay all entry level pilots like senior captains at legacy airlines.

No you’re misunderstanding the issue. It’s not a pay issue. Ryanair actually pays well*

*once you’ve paid for your interview, uniform and rating.

It’s everything else surrounding the airline and the way they use management by fear.

They seem to be doing well and one of the few airlines growing or announcing labor growth.
I paid for my Master’s, paid to travel for my interview, and buy my ‘uniform’. Change the context from a pilot and it doesn’t seem so egregious. The profession and industry is evolving. Ryanair isn’t PanAm or British Airways in their prime golden days, but those airlines are long gone.

airzona11 wrote:

AirPacific747 wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

Reading this thread it seems like the answer is simple, pay all entry level pilots like senior captains at legacy airlines.

No you’re misunderstanding the issue. It’s not a pay issue. Ryanair actually pays well*

*once you’ve paid for your interview, uniform and rating.

It’s everything else surrounding the airline and the way they use management by fear.

They seem to be doing well and one of the few airlines growing or announcing labor growth.
I paid for my Master’s, paid to travel for my interview, and buy my ‘uniform’. Change the context from a pilot and it doesn’t seem so egregious. The profession and industry is evolving. Ryanair isn’t PanAm or British Airways in their prime golden days, but those airlines are long gone.

Thing is, you paid for your Masters (congrats by the way); so, you can change company, and maybe even industry, and still use this diploma without further training (or your new employer will train you for their specific work).
Change the context to a pilot: a 737 pilot decides to change company, he can only go to companies with 737s. That reduces his pool of potential employers... unless he pays with a new type rating (or his new employer pays for it).
See, things are not exactly on the same level.

You gain experience and flight hours fast. FR even has a history of fast progress to the left seat. It's not all bad. After a few years pilots can move on to legacy airlines if they want and they do it.
Try to start as a pilot with any legacy airline as a newbie for comparison.

Noshow wrote:

You gain experience and flight hours fast. FR even has a history of fast progress to the left seat. It's not all bad. After a few years pilots can move on to legacy airlines if they want and they do it.
Try to start as a pilot with any legacy airline as a newbie for comparison.

Who care is they “gain experience and flight hours fast”, that straight away tells me you have no idea about fatigue management. Do you understand that “flight hours” is less than half the hours any pilot speds “at work”. The majority of time at the behest of the employer is unpaid.

If they leave FR as a captain and you don’t join BA as a captain, you go to the bottom of the list at BA again. All those hours and 737 type rating is all irrelevant to BA. All BA wants to see is a pilot with an ATPL, class 1 medial and the right to work.

Besides the masters university qualification being quoted on here is more akin to the ATPL theoretical knowledge and exams, a masters in itself has no practical use in day to day work.

This overcharging of cadets for type ratings is like a hospital saying to a newly hired board registered Radiographer that they have to pay for their own training on the CT and MRI equipment used at that hospital.

If you have a masters, you have that for life, a 737 rating is only as good as long as 737s are in service. I would wager FR will start replacing 737s with another type within 10 years. I firmly believe the 737Max is the end of the line for the 737,,so essentially it’s a worthless investment.

Bit offensive aren't we?
The days at work and flight hours are very much scheduled according to regulations. FR or not they can not schedule more per day or year than is permitted.
My point is at FR you don't end up as second officer doing one landing per month if you are lucky. You fly at least three sectors per work day and monitor another three.

zeke wrote:

Noshow wrote:

You gain experience and flight hours fast. FR even has a history of fast progress to the left seat. It's not all bad. After a few years pilots can move on to legacy airlines if they want and they do it.
Try to start as a pilot with any legacy airline as a newbie for comparison.

Who care is they “gain experience and flight hours fast”, that straight away tells me you have no idea about fatigue management. Do you understand that “flight hours” is less than half the hours any pilot speds “at work”. The majority of time at the behest of the employer is unpaid.

If they leave FR as a captain and you don’t join BA as a captain, you go to the bottom of the list at BA again. All those hours and 737 type rating is all irrelevant to BA. All BA wants to see is a pilot with an ATPL, class 1 medial and the right to work.

Besides the masters university qualification being quoted on here is more akin to the ATPL theoretical knowledge and exams, a masters in itself has no practical use in day to day work.

This overcharging of cadets for type ratings is like a hospital saying to a newly hired board registered Radiographer that they have to pay for their own training on the CT and MRI equipment used at that hospital.

If you have a masters, you have that for life, a 737 rating is only as good as long as 737s are in service. I would wager FR will start replacing 737s with another type within 10 years. I firmly believe the 737Max is the end of the line for the 737,,so essentially it’s a worthless investment.

I would respectively disagree Zeke (and most unusually with yourself). Ryanair do not fly either widebodies or long haul, but they rigorously adhere to all regulations. I'm surprised, and curious, at you saying the training is a 'worthless investment. Whether Ryanair replace 737's is surely largely irrelevant as once a pilot has the 737 type rating he/she can fly for airline flying them. If CX replace a type it doesn't make your type rating worthless with any other airline.

Vicenza wrote:

zeke wrote:

Noshow wrote:

You gain experience and flight hours fast. FR even has a history of fast progress to the left seat. It's not all bad. After a few years pilots can move on to legacy airlines if they want and they do it.
Try to start as a pilot with any legacy airline as a newbie for comparison.

Who care is they “gain experience and flight hours fast”, that straight away tells me you have no idea about fatigue management. Do you understand that “flight hours” is less than half the hours any pilot speds “at work”. The majority of time at the behest of the employer is unpaid.

If they leave FR as a captain and you don’t join BA as a captain, you go to the bottom of the list at BA again. All those hours and 737 type rating is all irrelevant to BA. All BA wants to see is a pilot with an ATPL, class 1 medial and the right to work.

Besides the masters university qualification being quoted on here is more akin to the ATPL theoretical knowledge and exams, a masters in itself has no practical use in day to day work.

This overcharging of cadets for type ratings is like a hospital saying to a newly hired board registered Radiographer that they have to pay for their own training on the CT and MRI equipment used at that hospital.

If you have a masters, you have that for life, a 737 rating is only as good as long as 737s are in service. I would wager FR will start replacing 737s with another type within 10 years. I firmly believe the 737Max is the end of the line for the 737,,so essentially it’s a worthless investment.

I would respectively disagree Zeke (and most unusually with yourself). Ryanair do not fly either widebodies or long haul, but they rigorously adhere to all regulations. I'm surprised, and curious, at you saying the training is a 'worthless investment. Whether Ryanair replace 737's is surely largely irrelevant as once a pilot has the 737 type rating he/she can fly for airline flying them. If CX replace a type it doesn't make your type rating worthless with any other airline.

You missed his point about the value of the type rating? Good example would be DC-9 type rating, what good does that do someone? His point was that a type rating value has a shelve life while the type is being flown worldwide in good
numbers. Unlike a Master’s degree value really doesn’t go away at all...