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TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:18 am

Why doesn't Delta combine their A330 and A350 pilot groups? It's legal.
 
Speedy752
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:13 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:37 am

NWAESC wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
I think if AA can go through another Chapter 11 and restructure their debt, they'll be in the best position long-term coming out of this.


Hoping a company goes BK as strategic play is an interesting take.


Yea I’m gonna say the shareholders and board won’t agree with that stance
 
Speedy752
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:13 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:48 am

I think WN is uniquely positioned to expand since they can bring back all of their fleet as needed without a new fleet type and they have MAX orders waiting on the tarmac in their colors. If it’s a rapid expansion they will benefit greatly, if it’s slower the smaller simplified fleets of the others may work out better since new aircraft are coming into the future but not right now. There’s also the fact that the recovery will be leisure, so by default WN is poised to be more aggressive as this is their key clientele
 
umichman
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:58 am

AZORMP wrote:

AZO-MSP is not on the schedule and from what I’ve been told it will not be back on their schedule for quite some time.


AZO-MSP is currently scheduled to return June 5th. Although June 5th and beyond is still placeholder, so restart could get pushed back further. But is has not been pulled through end-of-schedule which is a good sign it will likely return in the not too distant future.
 
reltney
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:04 am

ScottB wrote:
I suspect that DL management was fairly happy with the direction of its strategic plan prior to the pandemic and is waiting to see where the chips fall. They're dominant in ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC, and these hubs print money in normal economic times. They were well-positioned in NYC and have accelerated their terminal projects at both LGA and LAX.

Delta is going to be somewhat constrained by fleet in the medium term as they retired the MD-80s, MD-90s, 777s, and 73Gs in 2020 and currently plan to eliminate the 763s, 717s, and CR2s by YE 2025. That can probably be stretched out if need be, but they're still going to be a much smaller airline than they were in 2019 unless they go on a big buying/hiring spree.


Change to the change.... 73G??? That is what we called the glass 737-300. Thay have been gone for 15 years...Maybe you mistook them for the 737-700. Delta just got rid of the 737-700NGs and they had just a hand full. Delta has hundreds of new 737NGs..800and 900s. As for the 767-300ers......Change to that change.. the 2025 is out the window as they will play that by ear according to marketing. The 330 is too big while the international markets are rebuilding, so new life was just added to that fleet today. It’s a whole different world again...

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
reltney
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:19 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta combine their A330 and A350 pilot groups? It's legal.



HA! You should fly for Delta. There is more commonality between the 767-300 and 767-400 and they won’t combine that fleet. Also, the 330 and 350 are such vastly different cockpits with very little commonality. The failure rate for pilots converting from 330 to 350 was pretty high mainly because of the poor 350 training program... FYI, the primary reason for Dixon to loose his job. It really up to Delta, alpa and the POI.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 401
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:34 am

reltney wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I suspect that DL management was fairly happy with the direction of its strategic plan prior to the pandemic and is waiting to see where the chips fall. They're dominant in ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC, and these hubs print money in normal economic times. They were well-positioned in NYC and have accelerated their terminal projects at both LGA and LAX.

Delta is going to be somewhat constrained by fleet in the medium term as they retired the MD-80s, MD-90s, 777s, and 73Gs in 2020 and currently plan to eliminate the 763s, 717s, and CR2s by YE 2025. That can probably be stretched out if need be, but they're still going to be a much smaller airline than they were in 2019 unless they go on a big buying/hiring spree.


Change to the change.... 73G??? That is what we called the glass 737-300. Thay have been gone for 15 years...Maybe you mistook them for the 737-700. Delta just got rid of the 737-700NGs and they had just a hand full. Delta has hundreds of new 737NGs..800and 900s. As for the 767-300ers......Change to that change.. the 2025 is out the window as they will play that by ear according to marketing. The 330 is too big while the international markets are rebuilding, so new life was just added to that fleet today. It’s a whole different world again...

Cheers


This forum often uses IATA codes for airplanes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... esignators

73G is the IATA code for the 737-700.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 637
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:24 am

The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:50 am

chonetsao wrote:
I feel the new battle ground between DL and AA will be Austin.


AA is not that big in AUS. It would be between WN & DL.
 
AZORMP
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:46 am

umichman wrote:
AZORMP wrote:

AZO-MSP is not on the schedule and from what I’ve been told it will not be back on their schedule for quite some time.


AZO-MSP is currently scheduled to return June 5th. Although June 5th and beyond is still placeholder, so restart could get pushed back further. But is has not been pulled through end-of-schedule which is a good sign it will likely return in the not too distant future.



It was always a fairly popular flight, especially in the summer. Unfortunately when demand drops it’s always the first route to go, too.

The information regarding the AZO schedule comes from friends I have working the DL operation there. They’ve been waiting for extra flights to come back for a while but they’re just stuck with Detroit on (almost) fully-loaded 200s while surrounding stations see upgauges and increased frequency (specifically GRR and SBN).
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
umichman
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:20 am

AZORMP wrote:
umichman wrote:
AZORMP wrote:

AZO-MSP is not on the schedule and from what I’ve been told it will not be back on their schedule for quite some time.


AZO-MSP is currently scheduled to return June 5th. Although June 5th and beyond is still placeholder, so restart could get pushed back further. But is has not been pulled through end-of-schedule which is a good sign it will likely return in the not too distant future.



It was always a fairly popular flight, especially in the summer. Unfortunately when demand drops it’s always the first route to go, too.

The information regarding the AZO schedule comes from friends I have working the DL operation there. They’ve been waiting for extra flights to come back for a while but they’re just stuck with Detroit on (almost) fully-loaded 200s while surrounding stations see upgauges and increased frequency (specifically GRR and SBN).


Sorry, but I very much doubt your friends have any deep insights into management's future intent on this route. There are a number of routes that DL has removed all the way through end-of-schedule as part of Covid downsizing. These include routes like CVG-BDL/CLT/MCI/STL and RDU-CLE/CMH/PIT. There are also a number of routes which have had their restarts pushed back to September 1st. These include routes such as RDU-IND/BNA/BDL/PHL and DTW-BMI. There is a final group of routes are like AZO-MSP where DL has continued to push back the restart dates, but has chosen to leave them in the near term schedule which currently begins on June 5th. The fact that AZO-MSP is in this third group of routes pretty clearly indicates that DL has higher confidence in it's sustainability than those in the first two groups.
 
alohashirts
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:44 am

There is a lot of room for improvement that Delta can make. I think they need to just focus on being an airline, turning in a profit, and building new routes and step away from social and political matters. I would love to see Delta make a bigger push into the Florida markets and even start or expand at small airports out west that could be under the radar. We’ve seen DRO and CNY added but I think there are still opportunities at places such as FLG, SGU, SAF, SBA, PRC, etc.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:14 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


This isn't entirely accurate. According to Airfleets, AA's average fleet age is 11.2 years, DL is 14.2.

DL has been actively adding the A220, A330NEO, A350, A321 and 739 in the past 5-7 years.
The 777s, MD's all got retired last year. The 757's still serve a market that's tough to replace. I will also add as someone who switched from years of AA flying to DL years ago, DL does a much better job of taking care and updating the interiors of their aircraft.

For comparison the average age of their competitors fleets:
UA 16.3
WN 12.7
B6 11.3 (fleet is much smaller than everyone listed above)
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7228
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:05 pm

rbavfan wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I feel the new battle ground between DL and AA will be Austin.


AA is not that big in AUS. It would be between WN & DL.


The thing with AUS is that there's a ton of loyal AA flyers in that market. It's not much of an inconvenience for people to take a 45 minute flight up to DFW running every hour and then can go pretty much anywhere in the world.

For Delta, their presence in AUS historically has been limited. If all your travel was basically outside of an 800 mile radius of AUS, then you could make Delta work with flights to ATL/SLC/DTW/MSP/NYC/LAX. But if you needed to travel inside that radius, then Delta wouldn't be the carrier for you, which strikes down a very sizeable part of the traveling public. Even as Delta worked to build up Austin pre-pandemic, it still had a huge hole inside that 800 mile radius - a space that AA, UA and WN all easily play within.
 
goboeing
Posts: 2581
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:47 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta combine their A330 and A350 pilot groups? It's legal.


The A330 and A350 are not a common type rating, for good reason.

The cockpits are very different as are the procedures.
 
Lootess
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:34 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


This isn't entirely accurate. According to Airfleets, AA's average fleet age is 11.2 years, DL is 14.2.

DL has been actively adding the A220, A330NEO, A350, A321 and 739 in the past 5-7 years.
The 777s, MD's all got retired last year. The 757's still serve a market that's tough to replace. I will also add as someone who switched from years of AA flying to DL years ago, DL does a much better job of taking care and updating the interiors of their aircraft.

For comparison the average age of their competitors fleets:
UA 16.3
WN 12.7
B6 11.3 (fleet is much smaller than everyone listed above)


Yeah people who keep bringing up age of fleet haven’t been on a DL flight lately. Delta 757s looks better than most NG 737s out there. Newest sky interiors, IFE, screens, etc.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 401
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:04 pm

goboeing wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Why doesn't Delta combine their A330 and A350 pilot groups? It's legal.


The A330 and A350 are not a common type rating, for good reason.

The cockpits are very different as are the procedures.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en ... ining.html

I believe under EASA it can be done with a differences course. And I read an article about Lufthansa having crews fly three fleets (330/340/350). viewtopic.php?t=1417101

But not in the US.
 
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YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:55 pm

alohashirts wrote:
We’ve seen DRO and CNY added but I think there are still opportunities at places such as FLG, SGU, SAF, SBA, PRC, etc.

Interesting suggestions. HP (and for a time, US) or their affiliates operated to most of these destinations from their PHX hub for a number of years. I do remember HP (or YV?) operated PHX-PRC using CR2s -- for a 76 nm flight.

What additional opportunities were you thinking of for DL at SGU, other than SLC-SGU, which is already operated by OO?

I suppose that, given the current (likely temporary) focus on recreational / tourism destinations by some carriers, trial service to FLG and SAF would determine whether these routes are viable from DL's SLC hub. I'm also kind of surprised no one is operating LAX-FLG. Not sure about SLC-PRC, but might be worth a try.
 
alohashirts
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:32 pm

YQBexYHZBGM wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
We’ve seen DRO and CNY added but I think there are still opportunities at places such as FLG, SGU, SAF, SBA, PRC, etc.

Interesting suggestions. HP (and for a time, US) or their affiliates operated to most of these destinations from their PHX hub for a number of years. I do remember HP (or YV?) operated PHX-PRC using CR2s -- for a 76 nm flight.

What additional opportunities were you thinking of for DL at SGU, other than SLC-SGU, which is already operated by OO?

I suppose that, given the current (likely temporary) focus on recreational / tourism destinations by some carriers, trial service to FLG and SAF would determine whether these routes are viable from DL's SLC hub. I'm also kind of surprised no one is operating LAX-FLG. Not sure about SLC-PRC, but might be worth a try.

I think SGU-LAX on DL might work. From what I’m
Hearing it sounds like UA has no desire to resume it do maybe it’s an opportunity for DL or AA to try it.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:54 pm

Lootess wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


This isn't entirely accurate. According to Airfleets, AA's average fleet age is 11.2 years, DL is 14.2.

DL has been actively adding the A220, A330NEO, A350, A321 and 739 in the past 5-7 years.
The 777s, MD's all got retired last year. The 757's still serve a market that's tough to replace. I will also add as someone who switched from years of AA flying to DL years ago, DL does a much better job of taking care and updating the interiors of their aircraft.

For comparison the average age of their competitors fleets:
UA 16.3
WN 12.7
B6 11.3 (fleet is much smaller than everyone listed above)


Yeah people who keep bringing up age of fleet haven’t been on a DL flight lately. Delta 757s looks better than most NG 737s out there. Newest sky interiors, IFE, screens, etc.


DL does a great job of keeping interiors upgraded. The A320’s look great as well.
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:04 am

YQBexYHZBGM wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
We’ve seen DRO and CNY added but I think there are still opportunities at places such as FLG, SGU, SAF, SBA, PRC, etc.

Interesting suggestions. HP (and for a time, US) or their affiliates operated to most of these destinations from their PHX hub for a number of years. I do remember HP (or YV?) operated PHX-PRC using CR2s -- for a 76 nm flight.

What additional opportunities were you thinking of for DL at SGU, other than SLC-SGU, which is already operated by OO?

I suppose that, given the current (likely temporary) focus on recreational / tourism destinations by some carriers, trial service to FLG and SAF would determine whether these routes are viable from DL's SLC hub. I'm also kind of surprised no one is operating LAX-FLG. Not sure about SLC-PRC, but might be worth a try.


We've seen SLC-ELP, SLC-SBA come and go. I could resumption of service in the future. In the 2020s, maybe we see a few of these western US regional adds:
SLC ---> FLG/PRC/RDD/BFL/MRY/STS/HDN/YEG/YYJ
SEA---> SBA/MRY/STS/RDD/LGB/OAK/YEG/BIL/MSO

But there wont be many CRJ2s left. So it's more a matter of utilization of CR9s & E175s.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:39 am

Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:34 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Where are you seeing that? I could definitely see DL making these cuts but I'm not seeing the changes on their website yet.

I also feel that in about 3 years DL will admit that they cut too many routes during this, especially from their "focus cities" and will start working towards rebuilding their P2P network. They've already done this once in CVG and I think they'll do it again.
 
Runway765
Posts: 317
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:48 pm

AirportRival wrote:
I also feel that in about 3 years DL will admit that they cut too many routes during this, especially from their "focus cities" and will start working towards rebuilding their P2P network. They've already done this once in CVG and I think they'll do it again.


Nah, they’ll need to focus on their hubs in the post pandemic. It’s going to be a much different industry. The focus city strategy of Delta pre-pandemic was too excessive.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 11537
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:56 pm

Runway765 wrote:
AirportRival wrote:
I also feel that in about 3 years DL will admit that they cut too many routes during this, especially from their "focus cities" and will start working towards rebuilding their P2P network. They've already done this once in CVG and I think they'll do it again.


Nah, they’ll need to focus on their hubs in the post pandemic. It’s going to be a much different industry. The focus city strategy of Delta pre-pandemic was too excessive.

Yes especially since to expand their P2P network they are going to have to order more planes. With the 717s, 73Gs, and 50 seaters going, and MD fleet all gone (although MD80s were to be gone at this point anyways) DL has less narrow body capacity to play with, and in 3 years will have to start taking a look of getting rid of older A320s and 757s too. That means focus will be on hubs and select focus cities (eg RDU).
 
umichman
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:38 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Only JFK-SJC is actually gone from schedule. CVG-ORD is still scheduled to restart June 5th. DTW-SJC/SNA and CVG-BWI/RDU/PHL flights have had their restart dates pushed back to Sep 7th. This is almost certainly business travel related and indicates they aren't expecting much of an uptick until Fall. They still haven't pushed through very many cuts for June yet. ATL-LGA is still scheduled to go 10x daily weekdays in June schedule (up from 7-8x in May). DTW-ORD is 4x daily RJ's in May and still has 7x daily mainline (717s) loaded for June. MSP-ORD also still showing big capacity jump to 7x mainline in June. Lots of other similar examples which shows that June 5th and beyond should still be considered mostly placeholder schedule. I'd expect big June cuts to come next weekend as big May cuts were 3 weekends ago.
Last edited by umichman on Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:44 pm

AirportRival wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Where are you seeing that? I could definitely see DL making these cuts but I'm not seeing the changes on their website yet.

I also feel that in about 3 years DL will admit that they cut too many routes during this, especially from their "focus cities" and will start working towards rebuilding their P2P network. They've already done this once in CVG and I think they'll do it again.


Cranky flyer.
 
Runway765
Posts: 317
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:11 pm

umichman wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Only JFK-SJC is actually gone from schedule. CVG-ORD is still scheduled to restart June 5th. DTW-SJC/SNA and CVG-BWI/RDU/PHL flights have had their restart dates pushed back to Sep 7th. This is almost certainly business travel related and indicates they aren't expecting much of an uptick until Fall. They still haven't pushed through very many cuts for June yet. ATL-LGA is still scheduled to go 10x daily weekdays in June schedule (up from 7-8x in May). DTW-ORD is 4x daily RJ's in May and still has 7x daily mainline (717s) loaded for June. MSP-ORD also still showing big capacity jump to 7x mainline in June. Lots of other similar examples which shows that June 5th and beyond should still be considered mostly placeholder schedule. I'd expect big June cuts to come next weekend as big May cuts were 3 weekends ago.


It is a huge mystery as to why CVG-ORD still exists on DL when they have discontinued CVG as a focus city and there are virtually no connections.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:40 pm

Runway765 wrote:
umichman wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Only JFK-SJC is actually gone from schedule. CVG-ORD is still scheduled to restart June 5th. DTW-SJC/SNA and CVG-BWI/RDU/PHL flights have had their restart dates pushed back to Sep 7th. This is almost certainly business travel related and indicates they aren't expecting much of an uptick until Fall. They still haven't pushed through very many cuts for June yet. ATL-LGA is still scheduled to go 10x daily weekdays in June schedule (up from 7-8x in May). DTW-ORD is 4x daily RJ's in May and still has 7x daily mainline (717s) loaded for June. MSP-ORD also still showing big capacity jump to 7x mainline in June. Lots of other similar examples which shows that June 5th and beyond should still be considered mostly placeholder schedule. I'd expect big June cuts to come next weekend as big May cuts were 3 weekends ago.


It is a huge mystery as to why CVG-ORD still exists on DL when they have discontinued CVG as a focus city and there are virtually no connections.


I think that's because DL views ORD as strategically important, and clearly, there has to be some traffic (business) originating in CVG that goes to ORD. DL traditionally had a strong footprint at ORD though it seems really futile for them to try and built it up any further than what it already is.
 
CVGspottekass
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:20 am

CVG-RDU, CVG-PHL, and CVG-BWI are not cut but simply moved back to start in September. CVG-ORD is still set to begin in June.
 
onwFan
Posts: 579
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:02 pm

CVGspottekass wrote:
CVG-RDU, CVG-PHL, and CVG-BWI are not cut but simply moved back to start in September. CVG-ORD is still set to begin in June.

So, DL doesn’t call CVG a focus city, but operates the largest number of non-hub destinations there, much more than their focus cities of AUS & RDU? Strange...
 
Lootess
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:50 pm

Runway765 wrote:
umichman wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Looks like DL is making cuts again, and trimming service, including in NY and BOS where weekday cuts will be balanced out by weekend adds. Obviously, a lot of SJC and CVG cuts are also there. CVG-BWI, ORD, and RDU are gone. RDU to BWI and ORD have been axed. CUN goes to weekend service only. SJC-DTW and SJC-JFK gone. Looks like frequencies on ATL-LGA, one of DL's busiest domestic routes, is being pared down.


Only JFK-SJC is actually gone from schedule. CVG-ORD is still scheduled to restart June 5th. DTW-SJC/SNA and CVG-BWI/RDU/PHL flights have had their restart dates pushed back to Sep 7th. This is almost certainly business travel related and indicates they aren't expecting much of an uptick until Fall. They still haven't pushed through very many cuts for June yet. ATL-LGA is still scheduled to go 10x daily weekdays in June schedule (up from 7-8x in May). DTW-ORD is 4x daily RJ's in May and still has 7x daily mainline (717s) loaded for June. MSP-ORD also still showing big capacity jump to 7x mainline in June. Lots of other similar examples which shows that June 5th and beyond should still be considered mostly placeholder schedule. I'd expect big June cuts to come next weekend as big May cuts were 3 weekends ago.


It is a huge mystery as to why CVG-ORD still exists on DL when they have discontinued CVG as a focus city and there are virtually no connections.


P&G and Concentrix employees in CVG that has plenty of medallions has to get in Chicago somehow and it's not on WN.
 
reltney
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:05 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
reltney wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I suspect that DL management was fairly happy with the direction of its strategic plan prior to the pandemic and is waiting to see where the chips fall. They're dominant in ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC, and these hubs print money in normal economic times. They were well-positioned in NYC and have accelerated their terminal projects at both LGA and LAX.

Delta is going to be somewhat constrained by fleet in the medium term as they retired the MD-80s, MD-90s, 777s, and 73Gs in 2020 and currently plan to eliminate the 763s, 717s, and CR2s by YE 2025. That can probably be stretched out if need be, but they're still going to be a much smaller airline than they were in 2019 unless they go on a big buying/hiring spree.


Change to the change.... 73G??? That is what we called the glass 737-300. Thay have been gone for 15 years...Maybe you mistook them for the 737-700. Delta just got rid of the 737-700NGs and they had just a hand full. Delta has hundreds of new 737NGs..800and 900s. As for the 767-300ers......Change to that change.. the 2025 is out the window as they will play that by ear according to marketing. The 330 is too big while the international markets are rebuilding, so new life was just added to that fleet today. It’s a whole different world again...

Cheers


This forum often uses IATA codes for airplanes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... esignators

73G is the IATA code for the 737-700.


Thanks, that explains it. I have only worked in the airlines as a pilot for 40 years and realize Delta has its own language fo it’s planes and I start talking like Delta.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
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Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:30 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
umichman wrote:

Only JFK-SJC is actually gone from schedule. CVG-ORD is still scheduled to restart June 5th. DTW-SJC/SNA and CVG-BWI/RDU/PHL flights have had their restart dates pushed back to Sep 7th. This is almost certainly business travel related and indicates they aren't expecting much of an uptick until Fall. They still haven't pushed through very many cuts for June yet. ATL-LGA is still scheduled to go 10x daily weekdays in June schedule (up from 7-8x in May). DTW-ORD is 4x daily RJ's in May and still has 7x daily mainline (717s) loaded for June. MSP-ORD also still showing big capacity jump to 7x mainline in June. Lots of other similar examples which shows that June 5th and beyond should still be considered mostly placeholder schedule. I'd expect big June cuts to come next weekend as big May cuts were 3 weekends ago.


It is a huge mystery as to why CVG-ORD still exists on DL when they have discontinued CVG as a focus city and there are virtually no connections.


I think that's because DL views ORD as strategically important, and clearly, there has to be some traffic (business) originating in CVG that goes to ORD. DL traditionally had a strong footprint at ORD though it seems really futile for them to try and built it up any further than what it already is.


It will probably be dropped if/when they add ORD-LAX

onwFan wrote:
CVGspottekass wrote:
CVG-RDU, CVG-PHL, and CVG-BWI are not cut but simply moved back to start in September. CVG-ORD is still set to begin in June.

So, DL doesn’t call CVG a focus city, but operates the largest number of non-hub destinations there, much more than their focus cities of AUS & RDU? Strange...


Focus city designation is based on growth potential, if it was based on size MCO would be a focus city for DL.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2818
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:47 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


This isn't a problem (even if it were true). Financially, a balance is a huge benefit. DL isn't saddled with debt for all the new aircraft and instead has aircraft it can park easily. Moreover, as others have mentioned, DL gets a long life out of their aircraft by doing significant upgrades. When we are talking 800+ aircraft, there is no real "fleet renewal" - its just a continuous process.

Btw, just to further indicate how this post is wrong, they both have about 200 aircraft on order.
 
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vhtje
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Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:00 pm

Please explain

ElroyJetson wrote:
the VS hookup got them invaluable slots at LHR


The last slot trade between VS and DL was a return of 14 slots in June 2019, which DL had leased to VS in August 2017. Source: https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/?fromAirline=Virgin%20Atlantic

The tie up with VS did get DL greater access to the London market, through codeshares on VS flights. Is that what you meant?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:12 pm

The focus city designation is a marketing ploy. It isn't a guarantee of additional service or destinations. It's just Delta saying that they want a bigger share of that market.

CVG is obviously an important market to DL but they already have the largest market share. They'll cut the routes that aren't profitable as the pandemic gives them the perfect opportunity to continue to do.
 
n9801f
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:00 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Btw, just to further indicate how this post is wrong, they both have about 200 aircraft on order.


Sorry, jbs2886, but I think it is you who is mistaken.

Average Fleet Age
(airfleets.net)
American 11.2
Delta 14.4 years

So Delta definitely has more dinosaurs flying around than American.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:23 pm

AirportRival wrote:
The focus city designation is a marketing ploy. It isn't a guarantee of additional service or destinations. It's just Delta saying that they want a bigger share of that market.

CVG is obviously an important market to DL but they already have the largest market share. They'll cut the routes that aren't profitable as the pandemic gives them the perfect opportunity to continue to do.


To be even more specific, the focus city designation was a marketing ploy for AMEX. Delta identified cities where it could add some service to chase more lucrative credit cards.
 
umichman
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:31 pm

onwFan wrote:
CVGspottekass wrote:
CVG-RDU, CVG-PHL, and CVG-BWI are not cut but simply moved back to start in September. CVG-ORD is still set to begin in June.

So, DL doesn’t call CVG a focus city, but operates the largest number of non-hub destinations there, much more than their focus cities of AUS & RDU? Strange...


RDU has a number of routes scheduled to restart in September as well. Namely, RDU-IND/BNA/ORD/PHL/BWI/BDL. CVG will not have service to BDL, IND, BNA, JAX, AUS, and MIA, while RDU will. While RDU will not have RSW, DFW, and SFO service.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2818
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:40 pm

n9801f wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Btw, just to further indicate how this post is wrong, they both have about 200 aircraft on order.


Sorry, jbs2886, but I think it is you who is mistaken.

Average Fleet Age
(airfleets.net)
American 11.2
Delta 14.4 years

So Delta definitely has more dinosaurs flying around than American.


(1) Where did I say DL doesn't have older aircraft? I didn't - DL clearly does have older aircraft, why would I dispute that? In fact, I said I think there is a financial benefit to DL by having a balanced fleet. You ignored the entire context and focused solely on age, which is meaningless in isolation.
(2) The premise of your post was that AA was at the end of its fleet renewal. That is false, although you selectively quoted, the part you did quote clearly reveals that both AA and DL have similar order books. Again, when you have 800+ mainline aircraft, there isn't really a fleet renewal cycle, its going to be far more continuous renewal.
(3) If you are going to selectively quote me, at least respond to the quote, you just reiterated the age again.
 
n9801f
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:07 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


Yes, Delta's fleet is older than American's.

Even if each airline takes 200 deliveries, as noted by jbs2886, American will still have a younger fleet.

Delta has not yet retired its elderly 757 and 767 fleets, which American has.

While Delta doubtless saves on ownership costs, it has higher maintenance and fuel costs with older planes.

If customers prefer newer planes, and not just newer interiors and older planes, their odds of getting this are higher on American.
 
2175301
Posts: 2052
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:00 pm

n9801f wrote:
If customers prefer newer planes, and not just newer interiors and older planes, their odds of getting this are higher on American.



I've never seen any evidence that customers prefer newer planes. I have seen evidence that suggest that customers like newer interiors...
 
n9801f
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:17 pm

Some of us believe a newer plane is less likely to experience unexpected mechanical problems.
 
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ElroyJetson
Posts: 910
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Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:20 pm

vhtje wrote:
Please explain

ElroyJetson wrote:
the VS hookup got them invaluable slots at LHR


The last slot trade between VS and DL was a return of 14 slots in June 2019, which DL had leased to VS in August 2017. Source: https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-slot-trades/?fromAirline=Virgin%20Atlantic

The tie up with VS did get DL greater access to the London market, through codeshares on VS flights. Is that what you meant?


I actually meant both. Thanks for clarification of the slot issue. At the time of the JV with VS, the lack of DL's presence at LHR, one of the premier high yield and business airports in the world, was seen as a big liability. The JV with VS gave DL access to a very important market they likely would not have gotten otherwise. Whether it will or has fully paid off is an open question.

I see the JV's with VS and LATAM as a way to complete directly against AA. The KE JV I believe was a direct competitive move against UA and AA. Again, I think it's too early to evaluate the success, or lack of success of these JV's, but I do understand the logic behind them.
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:23 pm

n9801f wrote:
If customers prefer newer planes, and not just newer interiors and older planes, their odds of getting this are higher on American.


If given a choice between a Delta 757 and a new AA 737-800 in an Oasis configuration, I am taking the Delta 757
 
dstblj52
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:50 pm

n9801f wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
The problem with Delta is how old their fleet is. So many old 320, 757, 767 etc. that need to be replaced. And that needs money and debt.

AA is pretty much done with its fleet renewal.


Yes, Delta's fleet is older than American's.

Even if each airline takes 200 deliveries, as noted by jbs2886, American will still have a younger fleet.

Delta has not yet retired its elderly 757 and 767 fleets, which American has.

While Delta doubtless saves on ownership costs, it has higher maintenance and fuel costs with older planes.

If customers prefer newer planes, and not just newer interiors and older planes, their odds of getting this are higher on American.

99.9% of customers judge an aircrafts age from is it obviously scratched, is the interior obviously worn, and does it have new tv's
 
alfa164
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:59 am

n9801f wrote:
While Delta doubtless saves on ownership costs, it has higher maintenance and fuel costs with older planes..


Do you have any evidence to support this? A.net posters often point out how Delta's well-regarded in-house maintenance division gives them a cost advantage when it comes to maintaining both the older and the newer aircraft in their fleet.


n9801f wrote:
If customers prefer newer planes, and not just newer interiors and older planes, their odds of getting this are higher on American.


Again, can you show any evidence that customers prefer newer planes? All I have seen are complaints about AA's "newer planes", specifically citing their limited legroom and extremely cramped toilets. Can you provide any "alternative facts"?


n9801f wrote:
Some of us believe a newer plane is less likely to experience unexpected mechanical problems.


How about a little less "beliefs" and a few more facts?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
bcbhokie
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:30 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:09 am

deltairlines wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
I feel the new battle ground between DL and AA will be Austin.


AA is not that big in AUS. It would be between WN & DL.


The thing with AUS is that there's a ton of loyal AA flyers in that market. It's not much of an inconvenience for people to take a 45 minute flight up to DFW running every hour and then can go pretty much anywhere in the world.

For Delta, their presence in AUS historically has been limited. If all your travel was basically outside of an 800 mile radius of AUS, then you could make Delta work with flights to ATL/SLC/DTW/MSP/NYC/LAX. But if you needed to travel inside that radius, then Delta wouldn't be the carrier for you, which strikes down a very sizeable part of the traveling public. Even as Delta worked to build up Austin pre-pandemic, it still had a huge hole inside that 800 mile radius - a space that AA, UA and WN all easily play within.


I think this is precisely the opportunity DL saw pre-pandemic. By building up AUS with a few key point-to-point longer haul flights, then adding targeted direct flights within that 800-mile radius, they could help plug the Texas-sized hole in their network and go after one of the most affluent growing markets in the country.

Success for Delta in Austin doesn't mean defeating AA and WN - it just means carving out a 20-30% sized niche for themselves and enabling them to go after high value business travel to and from the area. They were already making investments toward this, like the gleaming new Sky Club at AUS, and I expect this to largely resume post-pandemic.
 
n9801f
Posts: 300
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: What is Delta Doing?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:43 am

alfa164 wrote:
n9801f wrote:
While Delta doubtless saves on ownership costs, it has higher maintenance and fuel costs with older planes..

Do you have any evidence to support this? A.net posters often point out how Delta's well-regarded in-house maintenance division gives them a cost advantage when it comes to maintaining both the older and the newer aircraft in their fleet.

I suspect you are confusing the intended cost comparison here. The point is probably that Delta believes it's cheaper to perform many maintenance activities in-house rather than outsourcing - for both its older and its newer aircraft.

Regardless of whether a plane is maintained in-house or through outsourcing (and a combination is common), a plane costs more to maintain as it ages. Just like your car. There's a very well known "maintenance honeymoon" on a new plane in which you have to replace very few parts because they're all new, and expensive use-based heavy maintenance activities are still far in the future, etc

If you're super curious, IATA publishes a good methodology here and you can apply it to publicly available airline cost data. https://www.iata.org/contentassets/bf8c ... d-2018.pdf

As for your other questions, please note that I qualified my claims very carefully. I just said "some" customers prefer new planes to old ones. And I happen to be one of them.

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