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kaitak
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Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:23 am

Good morning everyone and welcome to our April thread.

It occurs to me that if the way ahead for aviation were to be transposed on an aircraft Nav display, there'd be a sea of various reds and orange ... a bit of yellow and almost no green! It's still a case if "seatbelts fastened and restrooms out of use". And it will be for some time.

There's not much in the way of specific positives to pick out; internaitonally, there is some good news, such as American and other carriers bringing aircraft out of service and reopening routes (such as PHL-DUB).

The general outlook for Ireland is not as positive; we now have MHQ and more countries are being added - and rumours say that the US, Germany, France, and Italy might be added to the list. The govenrment has said that priority will be given to getting people back to work (clearly not in the aviation industry). I think we will pay a serious price for having a minister who is not a fan of the industry; something as important to Ireland as aviation needs someone passionate to bat for it at cabinet; that's not Eamon Ryan. I don't know who is doing it now. I'm not even sure who now has control of aviation at the cabinet table. I think that when we come to the time that there is a willingness at govt level to discuss travel (which there isn't now), there needs to be a counter to NEPHT's conservatism. Once people are vaccinated, what else needs to be in place. Health authorities, like the CDC, will say that even with vaccines, there is a risk. Do we still know if people who have been vaccinated can pass on the virus (I think they cannot?) or get the virus themselves (there is a small chance of this, because the virus is not 100% effective).

I think we are a long time from being able to travel. With talk about adding three EU countries to the MHQ list, any talk about traffic lights and inter-European travel is months away. But it will have to be driven by govt and that won't happen with ER at the helm. A stance needs to be taken, to recognise that (a) we have done as much as we can, with people vaccinated and safety precautions in place, and (b) a recognition of the reality that have to live with Covid and (c) that the longer we wait, the more economic damage we do.

So for now, we're just reading the tea-leaves. EI is moving some of its fleet, including two newly delivered A321 Neos, to MAN. It has also taken another ex-QR A330-300.

Ryanair is expecting to take delivery of its first 737 Max in the very near future and expects to receive them at a significant rate. MO'L, being MO'L is adding more flights ex-BHD, and it encouraging people to travel via NI. How effective that will be, I don't know and I suspect that the government will try to respond to it in some way. We'll see.

I'd like to be able to add some more hope here, but all we can say (and not even with 100% certainty) is that the worst is behind us and things are gradually getting better.

Here's a link to 3/21: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458251&start=200
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:38 am

Ryanair to open new base in Croatian capital Zagreb in September

Ryanair said today that it will open a new base in the Croatian capital Zagreb from September.

"There will be 12 new routes and 36 weekly flights from Zagreb," Ryanair chief executive Eddie Wilson said in an online presentation.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0330/1206 ... greb-base/

--

ASL’s British subsidiary gets UK air operating licence
Move makes Irish-owned carrier the world’s newest cargo airline

Cargo specialist ASL Aviation Holdings’ British business has received its air operating licence from the UK authorities, making it the first such carrier to get a permit post-Brexit.
The Dublin-based airline opened ASL Airlines United Kingdom in answer to customer demand. It will fly daily to Belfast from a new base at East Midlands Airport in Leicestershire, England.

www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... -1.4523344
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:40 am

I don’t fully share your pessimism Kaitak. From a purely practical point of view, Belfast (and other NI airports) will be used by people in the South & the govt know this and can do nothing about it.

Equally, constantly adding countries to the MHQ list isn’t realistic. Countries such as USA are far ahead of us in vaccination roll out and even if they ignore that, there simply isn’t the capacity to add and add

My gut feeling is that by July travel within Europe will look much more likely and US (and others) by September
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:46 pm

If I were the government I would fine MO'L for encouraging citizens to break the rules! In fact they could fine some of you guys too!!
I'd murder to go on a quickie holiday abroad but I believe it would inappropriate and against the best advice of the government.

Enjoy Easter!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:15 pm

Fliplot wrote:
If I were the government I would fine MO'L for encouraging citizens to break the rules! In fact they could fine some of you guys too!!
I'd murder to go on a quickie holiday abroad but I believe it would inappropriate and against the best advice of the government.

Enjoy Easter!


If it were illegal then he would be taken to court. Have the government done that? Had the government had any back bone at all they would have taken him to court or seized a few aircraft at DUB to make him pay back outstanding refunds. Sadly the government are winging it. Patience has run out even amongst those who went by the book for the last 12 months. Why did it take 12 months to bring in quarantine anyway ? People are now doing their own thing . Sadly Ireland is held back by a group of old cronies. We need new young blood in many aspects of government and industry. The country is being held back by old school mentality who should have been retired off years ago. Maybe some Irish people who have lived and worked abroad for the last 5-10 years and have a more open vision of how to do things.

So many young people in Aviation that are suffering and having careers ruined because of it. Meanwhile people skipping lines to get vaccinated , Gards running hair salons at stations what next !
I certainly dont blame anyone that decides to cross the United Kingdom border to get away. If the government are so smart they can shut off the border but they are too weak. Its a mess of double standards.
 
shadyshamrock
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:26 pm

OA260 wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
If I were the government I would fine MO'L for encouraging citizens to break the rules! In fact they could fine some of you guys too!!
I'd murder to go on a quickie holiday abroad but I believe it would inappropriate and against the best advice of the government.

Enjoy Easter!


We need new young blood in many aspects of government and industry. The country is being held back by old school mentality who should have been retired off years ago. Maybe some Irish people who have lived and worked abroad for the last 5-10 years and have a more open vision of how to do things.

So many young people in Aviation that are suffering and having careers ruined because of it. Meanwhile people skipping lines to get vaccinated , Gards running hair salons at stations what next !
I certainly dont blame anyone that decides to cross the United Kingdom border to get away. If the government are so smart they can shut off the border but they are too weak. Its a mess of double standards.


True. At this point my parents, my elderly grand aunt, the middle class retirees in my town etc are all now sick and tired of this. When you've lost this group you have to go back to the drawing board because they were on board and followed everything to the letter until about mid-Feb. There are lots of us who never left as well as those who did and have experience from abroad who would love a shot at some of the influential jobs but good luck if you don't know someone. I did a short term contract in the civil service and I wouldn't send my worst enemy in.

As for travel, I'm resigned to writing off the summer. Maybe we'll get a few spots that will be open to us but the threats of quarantine, needing extra testing on arrival in DUB, changing traffic light systems means you can't relax until you're back home which defeats the purpose. I hope I'm wrong though. From day 1 I've decided to expect the worst and hope to be very wrong. So far I haven't but I cannot wait for the day that I am so very wrong!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:05 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
OA260 wrote:
We need new young blood in many aspects of government and industry. The country is being held back by old school mentality who should have been retired off years ago. Maybe some Irish people who have lived and worked abroad for the last 5-10 years and have a more open vision of how to do things.

So many young people in Aviation that are suffering and having careers ruined because of it. Meanwhile people skipping lines to get vaccinated , Gards running hair salons at stations what next !
I certainly dont blame anyone that decides to cross the United Kingdom border to get away. If the government are so smart they can shut off the border but they are too weak. Its a mess of double standards.


True. At this point my parents, my elderly grand aunt, the middle class retirees in my town etc are all now sick and tired of this. When you've lost this group you have to go back to the drawing board because they were on board and followed everything to the letter until about mid-Feb. There are lots of us who never left as well as those who did and have experience from abroad who would love a shot at some of the influential jobs but good luck if you don't know someone. I did a short term contract in the civil service and I wouldn't send my worst enemy in.

As for travel, I'm resigned to writing off the summer. Maybe we'll get a few spots that will be open to us but the threats of quarantine, needing extra testing on arrival in DUB, changing traffic light systems means you can't relax until you're back home which defeats the purpose. I hope I'm wrong though. From day 1 I've decided to expect the worst and hope to be very wrong. So far I haven't but I cannot wait for the day that I am so very wrong!


Hard to know what will happen as the majority that had signed up to the traffic light system have either paused or left it by unilateral actions. Hopefully when things get better they will sign up to it again . We may see a few countries accessible to Irish by July/Aug but with a no non essential travel advice that could still be in place it will only benefit the brave .



Attorney General warns Health Minister it may be illegal to charge EU citizens to stay in quarantine hotels

Health Minister Stephen Donnelly’s plan to increase the number of countries on the State’s hotel quarantine list is in jeopardy due to serious legal concerns.

www.independent.ie/irish-news/attorney- ... 62921.html
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:30 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
As for travel, I'm resigned to writing off the summer. Maybe we'll get a few spots that will be open to us but the threats of quarantine, needing extra testing on arrival in DUB, changing traffic light systems means you can't relax until you're back home which defeats the purpose. I hope I'm wrong though. From day 1 I've decided to expect the worst and hope to be very wrong. So far I haven't but I cannot wait for the day that I am so very wrong!


Same here, I cancelled my flights for August, so I also think summer is basically a write off.

My first trip out of the country is scheduled for Halloween weekend at the end of October to HEL, as the cheapest DUB-HEL-DUB flights all year with Finnair are around that weekend (€150 return). Otherwise, it's November to London on BA, for a Star Trek convention of all things. Never been to one and the entire Voyager cast will be there, so I'll be interested to see what that's like!

Then it's January 2022 to the USA. I was booking my Alaska Airlines flights earlier, now that they are in oneworld.

Our work has us scheduled to be back in the office from 30 August, so we'll see what happens there. Either way, the way countries are going back into lockdowns, opening up really slowly, and the myriad of rules - it will take some time. I still think September is probably where it's at for being able to travel properly. Hope it's earlier, but don't think so. It's not long to go anyway :)
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:11 am

ClassicLover wrote:
shadyshamrock wrote:
As for travel, I'm resigned to writing off the summer. Maybe we'll get a few spots that will be open to us but the threats of quarantine, needing extra testing on arrival in DUB, changing traffic light systems means you can't relax until you're back home which defeats the purpose. I hope I'm wrong though. From day 1 I've decided to expect the worst and hope to be very wrong. So far I haven't but I cannot wait for the day that I am so very wrong!


Same here, I cancelled my flights for August, so I also think summer is basically a write off.

My first trip out of the country is scheduled for Halloween weekend at the end of October to HEL, as the cheapest DUB-HEL-DUB flights all year with Finnair are around that weekend (€150 return). Otherwise, it's November to London on BA, for a Star Trek convention of all things. Never been to one and the entire Voyager cast will be there, so I'll be interested to see what that's like!

Then it's January 2022 to the USA. I was booking my Alaska Airlines flights earlier, now that they are in oneworld.

Our work has us scheduled to be back in the office from 30 August, so we'll see what happens there. Either way, the way countries are going back into lockdowns, opening up really slowly, and the myriad of rules - it will take some time. I still think September is probably where it's at for being able to travel properly. Hope it's earlier, but don't think so. It's not long to go anyway :)


Helsinki, Star Trek and the States...it sounds like you have plans to..boldly go..to some places :D


Sorry..couldn't resist. I'm a Star Wars guy, not a Trekkie, but i hope your plans go ahead :)
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:46 am

RocDoc offer Covid-19 antibody tests at Shannon Airport

Irish healthcare company RocDoc has launched an antibody testing service at Shannon Airport.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1207221/



Plea for £15m more to secure Derry Airport future

DERRY and Strabane Council is to seek £15 million in financial aid to secure the future sustainability of City of Derry Airport.

www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews ... ntent.html



US fund’s bid to quiz media in Ryanair case blocked by NY court

A US pension fund has been blocked from seeking permission to allow it to question members of the media in Ireland and the UK, including this reporter, in a long-running legal action against Ryanair and its CEO, Michael O’Leary.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish ... 63023.html
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:36 am

Not that I'm a massive fan of April Fools jokes, but I had to share this!

https://www.aerotime.aero/27588-ryanair ... pril+fools

I'm back to work myself from this weekend (no, that's not an April Fool's joke) ... as if the airline industry hadn't suffered enough!

I guess the big thing is that there is so much BS flying about, it's hard to pick out exactly what would be an April Fool's joke!

The Department of Foreign Affairs is reportedly angry about calls for MHQ for US and some EU nationals, the AG has also cast doubt on the legality of such measures. It is quite clear that many EU countries have serious problems; we are one of the best performers, second only to Portugal; the UK is (though obviously not still an EU country) very close to the level of Ireland and Portugal.
 
shadyshamrock
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:00 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
shadyshamrock wrote:
As for travel, I'm resigned to writing off the summer. Maybe we'll get a few spots that will be open to us but the threats of quarantine, needing extra testing on arrival in DUB, changing traffic light systems means you can't relax until you're back home which defeats the purpose. I hope I'm wrong though. From day 1 I've decided to expect the worst and hope to be very wrong. So far I haven't but I cannot wait for the day that I am so very wrong!


Same here, I cancelled my flights for August, so I also think summer is basically a write off.

My first trip out of the country is scheduled for Halloween weekend at the end of October to HEL, as the cheapest DUB-HEL-DUB flights all year with Finnair are around that weekend (€150 return). Otherwise, it's November to London on BA, for a Star Trek convention of all things. Never been to one and the entire Voyager cast will be there, so I'll be interested to see what that's like!

Then it's January 2022 to the USA. I was booking my Alaska Airlines flights earlier, now that they are in oneworld.

Our work has us scheduled to be back in the office from 30 August, so we'll see what happens there. Either way, the way countries are going back into lockdowns, opening up really slowly, and the myriad of rules - it will take some time. I still think September is probably where it's at for being able to travel properly. Hope it's earlier, but don't think so. It's not long to go anyway :)


Nice. I was very impressed with Alaska over there. I still have a voucher from them and one from BA but it's hard to have the heart to go researching hols at the minute. Had a FedEx plane fly right over the house last night at dusk and nearly got a but teary watching it. We're under the flight path to the USA and it's been so eerily quiet it was great to see a big bird soaring out west. Think I'll aim for summer 2022 in the USA. Nothing like having a trip planned but nothing as frustrating as all the watching and hoping and cancelling.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:10 pm

kaitak wrote:
Not that I'm a massive fan of April Fools jokes, but I had to share this!

https://www.aerotime.aero/27588-ryanair ... pril+fools

I'm back to work myself from this weekend (no, that's not an April Fool's joke) ... as if the airline industry hadn't suffered enough!

I guess the big thing is that there is so much BS flying about, it's hard to pick out exactly what would be an April Fool's joke!

The Department of Foreign Affairs is reportedly angry about calls for MHQ for US and some EU nationals, the AG has also cast doubt on the legality of such measures. It is quite clear that many EU countries have serious problems; we are one of the best performers, second only to Portugal; the UK is (though obviously not still an EU country) very close to the level of Ireland and Portugal.


Im still trying to work out if this is a April fools or not !!


Covid chaos: 500 no-shows at vaccination centre as HSE issues duplicate appointments to healthcare workers who already got their jab

www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/covi ... 65486.html

Rumour is that Aer Lingus are going to move 2 more aircraft out of DUB and another wave of June cancelations are being planned .
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:30 pm

OA260 wrote:
Rumour is that Aer Lingus are going to move 2 more aircraft out of DUB and another wave of June cancelations are being planned .

To Manchester, or to another EU/UK base?
Domestic demand in the US does seem to remain strong, so there is certainly some "pent-up" demand for leisure travel. Apparently hotel bookings are strong too. So while the demand seem to be there, the messaging from the Irish Government is very much against opening up. Leaks and "looking into" the likes of hotel quarantine for EU arrivals is more along the lines of scare tactics than evidence-based. Im surprised at the level of disarray the EU vaccination programme finds itself in - various countries seem to be doing their own thing, suspending vaccination, differing criteria across countries. Its just not a robust approach and makes a mockery of the EMA's investigations. Countries need to spend less time micromanaging and get vaccines in arms. That seems the only way to get numbers down, keep variants at bay and to get economies reopened. The UK has sown the way on this - keep it as simple as possible to make it as quick as possible. Ireland has nothing like the health database the various NHS organisations have available to them, much less the rich data source of the Scandinavian registries. Age is the only sensible stratification Ireland can entertain, a combination of date of birth and photo ID on arrival is the only viable delivery system. Arguing over everything else is wasting time and the abilities of an already stretched system.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:42 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Rumour is that Aer Lingus are going to move 2 more aircraft out of DUB and another wave of June cancelations are being planned .

To Manchester, or to another EU/UK base?
Domestic demand in the US does seem to remain strong, so there is certainly some "pent-up" demand for leisure travel. Apparently hotel bookings are strong too. So while the demand seem to be there, the messaging from the Irish Government is very much against opening up. Leaks and "looking into" the likes of hotel quarantine for EU arrivals is more along the lines of scare tactics than evidence-based. Im surprised at the level of disarray the EU vaccination programme finds itself in - various countries seem to be doing their own thing, suspending vaccination, differing criteria across countries. Its just not a robust approach and makes a mockery of the EMA's investigations. Countries need to spend less time micromanaging and get vaccines in arms. That seems the only way to get numbers down, keep variants at bay and to get economies reopened. The UK has sown the way on this - keep it as simple as possible to make it as quick as possible. Ireland has nothing like the health database the various NHS organisations have available to them, much less the rich data source of the Scandinavian registries. Age is the only sensible stratification Ireland can entertain, a combination of date of birth and photo ID on arrival is the only viable delivery system. Arguing over everything else is wasting time and the abilities of an already stretched system.


Didn't specify but seems believable given the forecast for the rest of the year. Its all about 2022 now in the Irish market with MCO / LAS in demand for longhaul and cruises believe it or not are apparently selling beyond expectations. It will be interesting to see how the staycations in the UK go this year allowing only fully vaccinated to cruise. They are open to Northern Irish residents but sadly not ROI given the current situation.

All we can do is pray that they get their act together and get as many vaccinated here as possible and try to save Summer. A flight to KIR or CFN and back seems exotic at this stage .
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:07 pm

US and EU will not be added to the hotel quarantine list.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... powiUebwF4
 
Vicenza
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:03 pm

kaitak wrote:
there is a risk. Do we still know if people who have been vaccinated can pass on the virus (I think they cannot?) or get the virus themselves (there is a small chance of this, because the virus is not 100% effective).


Excellent post Kaitak, but I would like to just comment on the above. No vaccine (for any disease) actually prevents one from becoming infected from that disease. Rather, a vaccine is to prevent serious complications, and potential death, from that disease. Thus, while a vaccinated person can become infected, they should then be in very little danger of suffering potential death. However, they could also pass elements of the virus on quite easily. A good example is children....while, as a whole, they themselves suffer no serious effects from Covid, they can readily infect others (hence the vulnerability with grandparents etc).
 
Vicenza
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:08 pm

[quote="Eirules"]I don’t fully share your pessimism Kaitak. From a purely practical point of view, Belfast (and other NI airports) will be used by people in the South & the govt know this and can do nothing about it. [quote]

I would disagree entirely. If they wished to they could do a very great deal about it and, indeed, quite easily prevent it entirely. But, because of hypocrisy, they won't.......but which is a very different thing from "can do nothing about it".
 
Vicenza
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:12 pm

Fliplot wrote:
If I were the government I would fine MO'L for encouraging citizens to break the rules! In fact they could fine some of you guys too!!
I'd murder to go on a quickie holiday abroad but I believe it would inappropriate and against the best advice of the government.

Enjoy Easter!


I heartily agree with every word of your post Fliplot, although unfortunately, I don't think it would be possible with a very large degree there of greyish 'legality'. However, that's no excuse for pure and deliberate irresponsibility.
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 pm

Israel amongst the latest additions to MHQ. Shows just what a ridiculous nonsense it is
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:45 am

Eirules wrote:
Israel amongst the latest additions to MHQ. Shows just what a ridiculous nonsense it is


I simply can't get my head around this. I really don't see the point. It really does lower confidence in the whole process.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:10 am

Eirules wrote:
Israel amongst the latest additions to MHQ. Shows just what a ridiculous nonsense it is

The mind boggles. I'd be interested to know how many arrivals we had from Wallis and Futuna in the past 12 months...by the time you'd make the trek from there to Ireland you'd nearly be past the 14 days :duck: Wallis-New Caledonia-Tokyo-London-Dublin is the most straightforward route I can find.
 
shadyshamrock
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:51 am

It not only erodes confidence in the process (I had very little anyway I must admit) but you can see how the idea of MHQ has brought out bloodthirsty, small mindedness, jingoism and fear of the 'other' by looking at the rhetoric online. So too the 'vaccine supply wars' have ended any sense of humans being in this together and people rather relishing the slow rollout in nations they never liked anyway and taking a little too much delight in saying 'leave them to their own devices.' The justifications I have heard this morning for Isreal's addition to the list is that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread and variants. If that's the case we are back in square one and we may see aviation in Ireland return in 2035!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:35 pm

Shannon’s survival dependent on return of routes & multi-annual funding

A consistency of financial support over the next decade is needed to ensure Shannon Airport survives the current aviation crisis.

To recover and grow Shannon Airport’s “previously viable air services”, a sustained period of multi-annual funding “until at least 2024 and potentially as late as 2029 depending on when traffic returns to 2019 levels” is required.

Shannon Chamber in association with the Irish Hotels Federation put forward a business case for a multi-annual funded action plan for regional air access recovery and growth on Monday morning. The briefing session was attended by Oireachtas representatives from the Mid-West.

Kevin Thompstone, a board member of Shannon Chamber and the former CEO of Shannon Development gave the presentation as he stressed the need to implement supports to preserve Shannon’s future. Aviation’s recovery is dependent on vaccination, testing, track and trace, confidence, operational and financial viability for airports and airlines plus route marketing, he said.

www.clareecho.ie/shannons-survival-depe ... l-funding/
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:20 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
It not only erodes confidence in the process (I had very little anyway I must admit) but you can see how the idea of MHQ has brought out bloodthirsty, small mindedness, jingoism and fear of the 'other' by looking at the rhetoric online. So too the 'vaccine supply wars' have ended any sense of humans being in this together and people rather relishing the slow rollout in nations they never liked anyway and taking a little too much delight in saying 'leave them to their own devices.' The justifications I have heard this morning for Isreal's addition to the list is that the vaccine doesn't stop the spread and variants. If that's the case we are back in square one and we may see aviation in Ireland return in 2035!


If that’s the justification then all countries should be added to the list & all passenger flights cancelled. At some point (whenever we’re all vaccinated) a decision will have to be made to reopen the country to flights and that risk of “oh what about new variants that we don’t know of yet” will have to be ignored
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:27 pm

Should that be around the same time the US opens it's borders to Irish travellers? I dont get the persistent negativity towards the Irish Government when most other Government are equally struggling! I guess only time will tell!!!
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:21 pm

Fliplot wrote:
Should that be around the same time the US opens it's borders to Irish travellers? I dont get the persistent negativity towards the Irish Government when most other Government are equally struggling! I guess only time will tell!!!


Maybe people that don't get it are actually part of the problem. Seems there is a generation gap in this generally also. There is no clear plan to what the government intend to do about tourism in general both outbound and inbound and the aviation industry. Saying everyone else is doing bad is so old school and not an acceptable excuse. The corruption in recent weeks and gross mismanagement of the vaccine rollout is not a badge of honour to be honest.

Id be in favour of a tax on pensions which is means tested to contribute back into the country to help the youth get back to work especially in tourism and aviation. Hundreds in the tourism and aviation sector have sacrificed their careers to save the over 65’s so its time to give something back to aid recovery.
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:18 pm

OA260 wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Should that be around the same time the US opens it's borders to Irish travellers? I dont get the persistent negativity towards the Irish Government when most other Government are equally struggling! I guess only time will tell!!!


Maybe people that don't get it are actually part of the problem. Seems there is a generation gap in this generally also. There is no clear plan to what the government intend to do about tourism in general both outbound and inbound and the aviation industry. Saying everyone else is doing bad is so old school and not an acceptable excuse. The corruption in recent weeks and gross mismanagement of the vaccine rollout is not a badge of honour to be honest.

Id be in favour of a tax on pensions which is means tested to contribute back into the country to help the youth get back to work especially in tourism and aviation. Hundreds in the tourism and aviation sector have sacrificed their careers to save the over 65’s so its time to give something back to aid recovery.


COVID hits two groups more than the rest. Firstly, the elderly and secondly those with other health conditions.

Do you propose to hammer those with health conditions like Asthma and Diabetes as well.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:51 pm

bennett123 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Fliplot wrote:
Should that be around the same time the US opens it's borders to Irish travellers? I dont get the persistent negativity towards the Irish Government when most other Government are equally struggling! I guess only time will tell!!!


Maybe people that don't get it are actually part of the problem. Seems there is a generation gap in this generally also. There is no clear plan to what the government intend to do about tourism in general both outbound and inbound and the aviation industry. Saying everyone else is doing bad is so old school and not an acceptable excuse. The corruption in recent weeks and gross mismanagement of the vaccine rollout is not a badge of honour to be honest.

Id be in favour of a tax on pensions which is means tested to contribute back into the country to help the youth get back to work especially in tourism and aviation. Hundreds in the tourism and aviation sector have sacrificed their careers to save the over 65’s so its time to give something back to aid recovery.


COVID hits two groups more than the rest. Firstly, the elderly and secondly those with other health conditions.

Do you propose to hammer those with health conditions like Asthma and Diabetes as well.


Nope concentrate on the wealthy pensioners who have been artificially protected even during the debt crisis when the youth took most of the pain AND the vulnerable. Hence why I said means test it! Its never been tackled. That would bring in millions . Then you could set up a tourism fund which would in turn benefit everyone .
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:59 pm

Firstly, most pensioners aren't wealthy.

Secondly, most of those who are worked for it.

Frankly, in the case of many of the young, all they are prepared to work for is to build up their sense of entitlement.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:04 pm

Allow Irish residents quarantine at home if proper inspections in place - MEP

Irish residents arriving into the country who have an alternative place to quarantine rather than a hotel should be able to do so if proper inspections are put in place, Fianna Fáil MEP Billy Kelleher has said.

www.rte.ie/news/2021/0402/1207626-covid ... ne-latest/



Malta airport reopens after minor accident

VALLETTA, April 2 (Xinhua) -- Malta International Airport (MIA) was closed for just under one hour on Friday after a Ryanair plane crashed into a fuel bowser while it was being towed to its position.
The airport said in a statement that the accident, in which no one was injured as the plane was empty at the time, occurred at 11.29 a.m.

www.xinhuanet.com/english/europe/2021-0 ... 855300.htm
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:49 pm

OA260 wrote:
Allow Irish residents quarantine at home if proper inspections in place - MEP

Irish residents arriving into the country who have an alternative place to quarantine rather than a hotel should be able to do so if proper inspections are put in place, Fianna Fáil MEP Billy Kelleher has said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0402/120762 ... ne-latest/



Malta airport reopens after minor accident

VALLETTA, April 2 (Xinhua) -- Malta International Airport (MIA) was closed for just under one hour on Friday after a Ryanair plane crashed into a fuel bowser while it was being towed to its position.
The airport said in a statement that the accident, in which no one was injured as the plane was empty at the time, occurred at 11.29 a.m.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/europe ... 855300.htm


Proper inspections are crucial.

Also a good idea to verify the address and passenger phone number before letting you leave the airport.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:13 pm

Please just stick to discussing Irish aviation. There's no need for personal attacks.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:25 pm

Two women are due to appear in court tomorrow morning after they were arrested at Dublin Airport today when they refused to go to a quarantine hotel.
The women -aged in their 30s and understood to be Dubliners - had disembarked from a flight from Dubai where it is understood they had travelled for cosmetic surgery.

“Defence Forces personnel at the airport had informed these ladies that they were legally obliged to go to a quarantine hotel but they simply refused and the gardai were called,” a senior source said.

www.independent.ie/news/two-women-arres ... 69485.html
 
Fliplot
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:36 pm

There are a lot of experts on this forum however I am not sure the advice given is equally expert!!

Why in heavens name should older pensioners pay more tax than they already pay so that an entitled youth can enjoy the privileges they have today, partly provided by the pensioners you now want to tax more!
What rot!
How can a government have an aviation plan when no one on earth can predict where Covid goes next. Unlike the rest of you I firmly believe the Government will provide serious support to the wider aviation sector when it is less of a big black hole and more in genuine recovery mode.

I dont compare, never have! There are masters of the art of comparison on here. My point was even if we were to open up everything, it would only work if every other country were to do the same, which is not the case.

I will accept that the EU need an urgent review of it's handling ofthe Covid crisis. But to have a go at the Government over vaccines when the main suppluer can not be trusted to provide accurate or even honest supply information, is actually a bit Oirish!!!
Enjoy Easter
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:40 pm

I have questions about these 2 women, when did they travel to Dubai? Because the first entry into MHQ was 7 days ago. The system was signed off 12 days ago.

I’m in favour of MHQ but I feel it should be more like that of Iceland.
-Inbound passengers can be released after 6 days if the test taken after arrival and on day 5 are negative.
-Also Irish citizens should be allowed quarantine at home. But I would be very strict on this point. Their location should be queried at least once a day but requiring a GPS screenshot to be sent within 10 mins of the request. (Hungary did this last summer)


That Indo article shows the difficulty in the system meeting such passenger. 2 people absconded and all the Gardaí had was a ph9ne number and a name. Surely more info should be taken before the even get on the bus to the hotel?
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:00 pm

OA260 wrote:
Two women are due to appear in court tomorrow morning after they were arrested at Dublin Airport today when they refused to go to a quarantine hotel.
The women -aged in their 30s and understood to be Dubliners - had disembarked from a flight from Dubai where it is understood they had travelled for cosmetic surgery.

“Defence Forces personnel at the airport had informed these ladies that they were legally obliged to go to a quarantine hotel but they simply refused and the gardai were called,” a senior source said.

http://www.independent.ie/news/two-wome ... 69485.html


Airlines if they are not should ask for proof of hotel quarantine reservations alongside the negative pcr test. I suspect they hadn't booked the stay. They don’t sound like the type to part with over a grand easily.
 
bennett123
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:16 pm

Wonder how much the cosmetic surgery cost.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:38 pm

Eagleboy wrote:
I have questions about these 2 women, when did they travel to Dubai? Because the first entry into MHQ was 7 days ago. The system was signed off 12 days ago.

I’m in favour of MHQ but I feel it should be more like that of Iceland.
-Inbound passengers can be released after 6 days if the test taken after arrival and on day 5 are negative.
-Also Irish citizens should be allowed quarantine at home. But I would be very strict on this point. Their location should be queried at least once a day but requiring a GPS screenshot to be sent within 10 mins of the request. (Hungary did this last summer)


That Indo article shows the difficulty in the system meeting such passenger. 2 people absconded and all the Gardaí had was a ph9ne number and a name. Surely more info should be taken before the even get on the bus to the hotel?


True although it has been in the press before about influencers heading to Dubai to escape the lockdowns which is of course their personal decision but they need to adhere to the rules when they return. I have more sympathy for those that booked on Emirates DUB-DXB-XXX for emergencies and while away the rules changed so that even transiting DXB made them a candidate for MHQ. I know a few that have rerouted to avoid DXB in this instance but still fully comply with the 14 days quarantine at home rule. In this instance the system worked and we will see what penalties will apply. There certainly needs to be more info taken ie: scan of passport/PPS number / Proof of address etc...
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:21 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Wonder how much the cosmetic surgery cost.



Pretty sure Dubai is not known as a centre of excellence for cosmetic surgery....
Probably on a jolly, and using surgery as an excuse.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:33 pm

What's the story with arrivals from MHQ-listed countries into ORK? To my knowledge there is no contracted hotel there yet to hold passengers. There are up to two daily flights into/out of ORK at the moment (LHR with EI and AMS with WA).

Edit: nevermind, I answered my own question - https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/mandatory-h ... 4-20234258
 
Eirules
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:26 pm

Whatever your views on MHQ, agree or disagree, I don’t think anyone can debate that this has now become little more than a political exercise, both domestically & internationally.

Add a country with the best vaccination rate but leave off a powerful EU neighbour with infection rates 6x ours. Add a tiny island nation that most people haven’t heard of but leave off another EU neighbour that’s just gone back into lockdown

This has nothing to do with public health but far more to do with avoiding upsetting powerful neighbours and trying to tick a box at home and saying “oh but we’ve MHQ for 50 countries now”. The fact most are low risk means zilch
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:08 am

More information on the story has come to light .


“However, as they were about to return home having obtained negative PCR tests as requested they were detained at the airport in Dubai.

There they were informed they could not board their return flight unless they paid €1,850 in hotel quarantine fees for when they arrived into Dublin.

The women said they had spent all of their money and had no other funds but were not allowed to board the flight. For the next two days they were left roaming the airport and nearby streets as Ms Mulreany’s father tried to make contact with the Department of Foreign Affairs, several embassies and politicians.”

www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dubl ... 314162.amp
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:20 pm

Let firstly state that DublinLive is a terrible source of info. I think they just trawl through people's docial media to get "stories".
Personally I disagree with their photo been published in the article. I do have sympathy for them being "left roaming the airport"

"Ms Mulreany’s father...... said: “They are very distressed. My daughter followed every travel rule. They were and are being treated in an unbelievable way.”
" Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney........ , to sort out a waiver form to get them onto a flight on Thursday night as both have children who are dependent on them."


So 2 episodes of non-essential travel. The 2nd knowing that MHQ was being introduced while having dependant children.
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh in my old age. But they went off fully aware of the consequences. Our MHQ may not be perfect but it's in place and part of the Govt strategy. Now we just need an actual functioning track & trace system to be implemented 12 months too late.
 
EI320
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:43 pm

I agree their pictures should not have been published. DublinLive is a trashy outlet pandering to the lowest common denominator.

While they broke the rules, they are not dangerous criminals at large and shouldn’t be treated as such. There is no need for their pictures to be published.
 
shadyshamrock
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:30 pm

A lot of these comments really veered off topic but can I just say I am sick and tired of being called 'entitled' because I am young(ish). Graduated into the recession, going into my 30s in the pandemic. Have worked my backside off and took on minimum wage jobs, the dreaded Jobbridge, done unpaid internships, lived at home, did a stint abroad, commuted 2 hours each way to Dublin, worked in a call center at night after days in an unpaid internship, lost most of my mates to immigration and now back home again delivering for Tesco and likely going to retrain and start again. I still cannot understand why people who clearly take umbrage when this ridiculous 'generation war' hits home feel so free throwing around 'entitled' even after the moderator has asked for some civility. It's very offensive I have to say and I generally have skin like a jockey's whatsits.

Regarding these ladies who came in from Dubai. My fear with the way the MHQ is being covered is that it gives people a false sense of security because it really makes travel out to be the problem and the solution and I just worry that it makes people think they may as well go wherever they want now because they think it's up to the government to close the border and keep all these covid riddled people out. If they can't do that and people can swan in from a jolly in Dubai then why shouldn't I go to Tramore for the day they think....I'm sure the stories generate a lot of clicks but I'm not sure they are responsible journalism at the moment.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:35 pm

I have to say that I agree with Shadyshamrock. One of the reasons these threads have gone on for over a decade, maybe 15 years, is that we all treat each other with respect; we have our disagreements and differences, but we can deal with this in a respectful manner. We should not engage in generational wars or terms that suggest disrespect. We've all lived through difficult times in this country and we've all dealt with setbacks; many of us are going through difficult times right now, in various ways. So, let's keep the party polite ...

I returned to work today after a year off and I can certainly say that it was good to be back airside. The place is not dead completely; people are leaving and departing, though clearly in much smaller numbers and there are lots of aircraft parked up. The loads are certainly well down, but God, I realise how much I missed that place. Say what you like about Dublin Airport, it's still our spiritual home!

I really hope things get back to normal, though I can certainly say that as a dispatcher, low loads make turnarounds much easier to handle!
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1873
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:49 pm

shadyshamrock wrote:
A lot of these comments really veered off topic but can I just say I am sick and tired of being called 'entitled' because I am young(ish)....

I think I missed this back and forth but personally I dont ascribe "entitled" to any particular age group. In my opinion its an individual thing.
Economically speaking the worst affected by this last year will be the younger people, the early 20s getting started in life, late 20/30s trying to improved their lots, mid 30s starting a family etc.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2316
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:24 am

Willie Walsh has taken on the role of Director General at IATA

https://flyinginireland.com/2021/04/wil ... Idt4x7U-HA
 
Vicenza
Posts: 344
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Re: Irish 4/21: Turbulence!

Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:08 pm

Eagleboy wrote:
Let firstly state that DublinLive is a terrible source of info. I think they just trawl through people's docial media to get "stories".
Personally I disagree with their photo been published in the article. I do have sympathy for them being "left roaming the airport"

"Ms Mulreany’s father...... said: “They are very distressed. My daughter followed every travel rule. They were and are being treated in an unbelievable way.”
" Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney........ , to sort out a waiver form to get them onto a flight on Thursday night as both have children who are dependent on them."


So 2 episodes of non-essential travel. The 2nd knowing that MHQ was being introduced while having dependant children.
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh in my old age. But they went off fully aware of the consequences. Our MHQ may not be perfect but it's in place and part of the Govt strategy. Now we just need an actual functioning track & trace system to be implemented 12 months too late.



I agree entirely. Irrespective of what her father 'claims', his daughter most certainly did not follow the rules/law at all. Just another example of "these laws don't apply to me". Equally, on the second instance, the implications were known full well, and were deliberately ignored. I have no sympathy is the slightest.

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