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jplatts
Posts: 4395
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:18 am

Max Q wrote:
Does UA intend to connect JFK with its other hubs or just run it as a transcon jfk sfo operation?


UA adding JFK-ORD/DEN nonstop service might be a possibility with
(a) the FF base that UA has in the NYC market (due to its EWR hub) to support JFK-ORD/DEN nonstop service,
(b) both ORD and DEN still having nonstop service from JFK on both B6 and DL,
(c) ORD and DEN both being major hubs for UA,
(d) UA having some FF's in the CHI, DEN, and NYC markets who would avoid flying on DL, B6, or other airlines whenever possible, and
(e) connecting opportunities available onto transatlantic flights operated by UA's Star Alliance partners at JFK.
 
codc10
Posts: 3087
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:35 am

Max Q wrote:
I think there was a dedicated thread but I can’t find it


Does UA intend to connect JFK with its other hubs or just run it as a transcon jfk sfo operation?


I think it will happen, United representatives have said as much, but I would expect a more fully built-out transcon schedule first. I'd expect DEN and maybe IAH service.

I still say LHR happens before more non-transcon domestic, but what do I know...?
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8644
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:57 am

jplatts wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Does UA intend to connect JFK with its other hubs or just run it as a transcon jfk sfo operation?


UA adding JFK-ORD/DEN nonstop service might be a possibility with
(a) the FF base that UA has in the NYC market (due to its EWR hub) to support JFK-ORD/DEN nonstop service,
(b) both ORD and DEN still having nonstop service from JFK on both B6 and DL,
(c) ORD and DEN both being major hubs for UA,
(d) UA having some FF's in the CHI, DEN, and NYC markets who would avoid flying on DL, B6, or other airlines whenever possible, and
(e) connecting opportunities available onto transatlantic flights operated by UA's Star Alliance partners at JFK.


The obvious question is what does JFK provide that LGA doesn’t? For ORD, IAH and DEN the local O&D market is better served over LGA. No doubt there are some people in Jamaica and along the southern shore of Long Island for whom JFK is more convenient, but how big is that market? Given that UA were relatively weak at JFK long before the merger, I doubt that they have a particularly large legacy FF base in the area.

SFO and LAX are altogether different as they can’t be served from LGA. Given that it isn’t at all clear what slots UA will have after COVID exemptions expire, or what gates they will have once T7 closes, I think it is a bit far fetched to see anything more than SFO and LAX until the dust settles and the future situation becomes a bit clearer.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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Acey559
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:58 am

I have no idea what we will do, but I know West Loop and River North are (were?) growing like gangbusters before COVID.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:09 am

We extend lease agreement at iconic Willis Tower in Chicago - United Hub

Today, we announced that we will keep our current headquarters at the iconic Willis Tower in our hometown of Chicago while making investments to transform our current workspace and experience. Our new agreement extends our existing lease by five additional years to March 31, 2033.


And as one of the most ideally situated buildings in the city, with easy access to all Chicago Transit Authority train lines and Union and Ogilvie Stations, as well as nearby bus stops, Willis Tower already provides distinct advantages and will remain attractive to future job seekers throughout the metropolitan region.


Breaking a lease 1 year in, 12 years early sounds expensive.
 
AaronPGH
Posts: 595
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:13 am

Major corporations are not going to flee to the suburbs. That era is over. Everyone is slowly creeping back to a hybrid office/remote model, and young talent doesn't suddenly want to run to the burbs.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:21 am

NewYork1K wrote:
Kirby teasing some sort of "meaningful announcement" next week... https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLQGQ8BhCC/


  • April is Earth Month.
  • We've seen investments in carbon sequestration and electric aircraft.
  • Scott has criticized many companies' environmental strategies as not meaningful.
  • His son joining would drive the point home about leaving an inhabitable planet to future generations.

My money's on announcing new sustainability initiatives and highlighting existing ones.

Wildcard: Houston's the energy capital of the country and a major world energy hub. Maybe there's a broader initiative with some local energy players?
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:39 am

OscarAlphaKilo wrote:
I think it’s safe to say departure from the Willis HQ/the loop are imminent, but staying downtown probably isn’t out of the question entirely.


United Airlines extended its lease at Willis Tower until 2033 back in March 2019: https://www.willistower.com/media/news/ ... llis-tower

I'm not sure how expensive it would be to break this lease, but I doubt it will happen.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:40 am

Max Q wrote:
I think there was a dedicated thread but I can’t find it


Does UA intend to connect JFK with its other hubs or just run it as a transcon jfk sfo operation?



The plan is to expand beyond just the transcons.

https://www.afar.com/magazine/united-is ... fk-airport

“Our goal is to expand [our coast-to-coast] service first and then move on to our other gateways to be able to connect passengers through Chicago, Denver, Houston, in particular,” said Ankit Gupta, United’s vice president for domestic network planning.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:04 am

Max Q wrote:
I think there was a dedicated thread but I can’t find it


Does UA intend to connect JFK with its other hubs or just run it as a transcon jfk sfo operation?

I think this is the thread you are looking for: UA Plans to Return to JFK in 2021

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
jayunited
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:49 pm

BEG2IAH wrote:
OscarAlphaKilo wrote:
I think it’s safe to say departure from the Willis HQ/the loop are imminent, but staying downtown probably isn’t out of the question entirely.


United Airlines extended its lease at Willis Tower until 2033 back in March 2019: https://www.willistower.com/media/news/ ... llis-tower

I'm not sure how expensive it would be to break this lease, but I doubt it will happen.



You are months behind employees have already brought this up at multiple NOC town halls. Not only in 2020 has United already returned floors (there were including in that lease extension) to Willis Tower they have openly admitting they are working with Willis Towner on giving up more floors that are no longer needed as a result of the split operations between the NOC and BNOC.

Running a split operation is not optimal but United has told employees even when social distancing guidelines end they will not be bringing all NOC employees back under one roof. Instead we will continue to run a split operation. In several of those NOC town halls employees working at Willis have asked how committed United is too Willis Tower we still haven't gotten an answer but employees working at BNOC have been told they will not be coming back downtown to Willis at all.

Before the pandemic United's posture was we are not leaving Willis Tower and they made sure all employees knew that and in fact they were seeking permission to do construction to modernize the NOC even more. Now when this question comes up and believe me it comes up in every single NOC town hall leadership will not commit to Willis or give Willis employees a straight answer, they will only say no final decision has been made. Like it or not United at the very least will get the entire NOC and all supporting roles out of Willis Tower, they may leave the executive suite at Willis. I believe anything even remotely connected to supporting our world wide operations at some point this decade will be relocated to a suburban location probably near O'Hare.
 
LAXdude1023
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Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:26 pm

adamblang wrote:
NewYork1K wrote:
Kirby teasing some sort of "meaningful announcement" next week... https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLQGQ8BhCC/




Wildcard: Houston's the energy capital of the country and a major world energy hub. Maybe there's a broader initiative with some local energy players?


Given that the announcement is on TV and its in Houston, I bet this is it.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:31 pm

jayunited wrote:
You are months behind employees have already brought this up at multiple NOC town halls.


Good to know. I left United in 2018 and all I had heard in the meantime was about the lease extension. Breaking commercial leases is not the easiest thing in the world.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
codc10
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:51 pm

jayunited wrote:
Like it or not United at the very least will get the entire NOC and all supporting roles out of Willis Tower, they may leave the executive suite at Willis. I believe anything even remotely connected to supporting our world wide operations at some point this decade will be relocated to a suburban location probably near O'Hare.


I think that makes perfect sense. An operations center for a massive airline will necessarily occupy a lot of square footage, ideally on the same level, within line-of-sight to facilitate some of the inevitable crossover between workgroups to run the airline. Not something that necessarily demands premium, "Class A" office space in an urban core.

OTOH, executive/management/strategic functions by nature are probably better-suited for a downtown environment.
 
jetmatt777
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:57 pm

How was CommutAir’s reliability in the other hubs?

Their introduction into DEN has been laughable. Just about every flight has taken a maintenance delay, many being significant. It really does paint a contrast with OO, they have their issues but OO is a well oiled machine and CommutAir looks like amateur hour.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:40 pm

adamblang wrote:
We extend lease agreement at iconic Willis Tower in Chicago - United Hub

Today, we announced that we will keep our current headquarters at the iconic Willis Tower in our hometown of Chicago while making investments to transform our current workspace and experience. Our new agreement extends our existing lease by five additional years to March 31, 2033.


And as one of the most ideally situated buildings in the city, with easy access to all Chicago Transit Authority train lines and Union and Ogilvie Stations, as well as nearby bus stops, Willis Tower already provides distinct advantages and will remain attractive to future job seekers throughout the metropolitan region.


Breaking a lease 1 year in, 12 years early sounds expensive.


The NOC is under a separate agreement which ends in February 2022. United has already struck a deal to return three floors to Willis Tower.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/2 ... fice-space
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:59 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
How was CommutAir’s reliability in the other hubs?

Their introduction into DEN has been laughable. Just about every flight has taken a maintenance delay, many being significant. It really does paint a contrast with OO, they have their issues but OO is a well oiled machine and CommutAir looks like amateur hour.

With their explosive growth, that seems bound to happen. Given how they have more than tripled in size, are they mostly hiring ExpressJet employees?
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:22 pm

cosyr wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
How was CommutAir’s reliability in the other hubs?

Their introduction into DEN has been laughable. Just about every flight has taken a maintenance delay, many being significant. It really does paint a contrast with OO, they have their issues but OO is a well oiled machine and CommutAir looks like amateur hour.

With their explosive growth, that seems bound to happen. Given how they have more than tripled in size, are they mostly hiring ExpressJet employees?

BFF was captain for EV for 10+ years... applied everywhere... just got hired by C5... less pay of course.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
jayunited
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:00 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:23 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:40 pm

fun2fly wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.

DEN-COS has 3 mainline flights this month... May isn't reflecting a change in that regard.
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 7622
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:46 pm

fun2fly wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.

UA kept all of the pilots qualified by still doing recurrent training and short courses.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:03 pm

fun2fly wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.


Well since you had to . . . To use macro LF as evidence that the strategy is the best course of action in the long-term is an oversimplification. It certainly doesn’t speak to the “griping” that some customers were doing regarding the fact that their preferred carrier, United, has a schedule that can’t get them where they want to go when they want to go relative to the competition, and AA in particular
 
sircygnus
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:20 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
jayunited wrote:

Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.


Well since you had to . . . To use macro LF as evidence that the strategy is the best course of action in the long-term is an oversimplification. It certainly doesn’t speak to the “griping” that some customers were doing regarding the fact that their preferred carrier, United, has a schedule that can’t get them where they want to go when they want to go relative to the competition, and AA in particular

I'm curious to what people here think about events that would need to take place in order for United to begin solidifying schedules more than a month out. While I'm certainly not thrilled with schedules being rolled out a month in advance I understand the rationale behind it. My question is what does everything think would need to change in order for United to start firming up schedules 2-3 months out, then 3-5 months in advance etc.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:35 pm

sircygnus wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
fun2fly wrote:

Despite all the griping on the site, it seems like UA probably had a plan that was close enough to match demand. Hard to admit for some. Better than DL's PR nightmare.

Anxiously awaiting the next revision. I do see some late May adjustments in the schedule (COS some CR2's converted to 319's, etc.) so they are tinkering a bit in late May.


Well since you had to . . . To use macro LF as evidence that the strategy is the best course of action in the long-term is an oversimplification. It certainly doesn’t speak to the “griping” that some customers were doing regarding the fact that their preferred carrier, United, has a schedule that can’t get them where they want to go when they want to go relative to the competition, and AA in particular

I'm curious to what people here think about events that would need to take place in order for United to begin solidifying schedules more than a month out. While I'm certainly not thrilled with schedules being rolled out a month in advance I understand the rationale behind it. My question is what does everything think would need to change in order for United to start firming up schedules 2-3 months out, then 3-5 months in advance etc.


Fair question.

Just to be clear, I and some others were commenting on the lack of schedule to certain out cities. Some of us are loyal to United, but as explained in the thread, it is becoming increasingly difficult to continue being loyal when United’s schedule is in some cases so much thinner than the other choices. Coupled with the question of status being grandfathered again, it starts to beg the question of whether or not it is more opportune than ever to consider switch.

As it relates to advance schedule, it is challenging, especially to/from smaller cities when one books a flight and makes plans around that flight, when there is little intention to operate it. I just recently booked a fight from a small city to LIH on a double connection through DEN. If the flight isn’t likely to operate, it would be nice to know with a little advance notice so I can reconsider my options, which might include staying over a night on the west coast. Obviously, there are other pieces that have to be locked in like hotel rooms, some of which are asking for non refundable guarantees in this strange post-COVID environment.

I was burnt by United just after the holidays on a similar situation. I booked 2p flight from small city to Chicago about 6-8 weeks out, only to have them cancel all but the 6a flight in a schedule change. Meanwhile AA was operating 2-3 times a day. If I would have known, I would have booked AA in the first place. Moreover, I was honestly really ticked that I was put in this position, which doesn’t do well for my thoughts on UA in general.

I get it. It is a difficult time for UA and all carriers, but it is making it difficult for me to use UA, the carrier with which I am traditionally loyal. Unless I am the only loyal seeing it this way, hopefully this wise short term strategy doesn’t backfire for them in the long term

Hope this makes sense
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9440
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:07 pm

sircygnus wrote:
I'm curious to what people here think about events that would need to take place in order for United to begin solidifying schedules more than a month out. While I'm certainly not thrilled with schedules being rolled out a month in advance I understand the rationale behind it. My question is what does everything think would need to change in order for United to start firming up schedules 2-3 months out, then 3-5 months in advance etc.


They would want greater predictability of demand. Internationally that's hard because either party can close on a moment's notice. Domestically it's going to be easier, but not easy. Third wave? Fourth wave infections? We've seen France and Italy resort to new lockdowns; Germany vacillated. Will vaccine hesitancy leave pockets lacking herd immunity? Will we fail to achieve effective national herd immunity and suffer ongoing interstate outbreaks?

As for the direct financial costs of publishing a schedule, scheduling labor and selling tickets, then pulling back - I'll let others comment.
 
DoctorVenkman
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:00 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone have hub by hub LFs for this weekend? I know the system avg for yesterday was 88%.


Now that the weekend is over I can answer your question.

For the entire weekend UA's domestic and short haul network load factors was 87.4%

Long haul international routes are now being split out for obvious reason if we were to include long haul it would bring down our over all load factors which would skew the data and this recovery for now is limited to the domestic and short haul international markets.

Load Factors for the entire weekend by hub.

DEN - 91.2%
IAH - 88.5%
ORD - 81.9%
EWR - 82.3%
SFO - 80.2%
IAD - 78.6%
LAX - 92.9%

Once you throw in all the line stations and UAX stations the load factor was 87.4%

LAX the hub with the fewest number of flights had the highest load factor this past weekend beating SFO by 12% points, and DEN continues to top ORD beating ORD's LF by 10%.


Very interesting. Any idea what's driving the high load factor out of LAX? I'm surprised it's not down there with SFO and EWR considering the similar political climate and travel restrictions.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:28 am

I have to admit, everytime I've seen someone mention attracting "young talent" as a reason to stay at Willis Tower, it gives me the heebie jeebies. "Young talent" is fine as long as they are not put in charge of much of anything until they've had plenty of life experience. The very last thing I want is a millennial making decisions from routes to onboard services to airport experiences for me. Now if they are primarily responsible for the app and the website, kudos to them. United needs steady, experienced hands being fed inspiration from the younger crowd for sure especially during these unusual times. But just please don't put them in charge. And definitely don't give them keys to the Twitter Machine or think stepping out with political commentary is a good idea.
 
Cboyle
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:36 am

From JonNYC:
“Get in touch if you’ve heard rumor of huge breaking UA news”
What do you think?
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:38 am

Cboyle wrote:
From JonNYC:
“Get in touch if you’ve heard rumor of huge breaking UA news”
What do you think?

Maybe this has to do with Kirbys instagram story?

The tweet has since been deleted fwiw.
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:47 am

sldispatcher wrote:
I have to admit, everytime I've seen someone mention attracting "young talent" as a reason to stay at Willis Tower, it gives me the heebie jeebies. "Young talent" is fine as long as they are not put in charge of much of anything until they've had plenty of life experience. The very last thing I want is a millennial making decisions from routes to onboard services to airport experiences for me. Now if they are primarily responsible for the app and the website, kudos to them. United needs steady, experienced hands being fed inspiration from the younger crowd for sure especially during these unusual times. But just please don't put them in charge. And definitely don't give them keys to the Twitter Machine or think stepping out with political commentary is a good idea.


The oldest millennials are pushing 40 years old. Is that not enough maturity and experience?
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
jayunited
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:03 am

gwrudolph wrote:
As it relates to advance schedule, it is challenging, especially to/from smaller cities when one books a flight and makes plans around that flight, when there is little intention to operate it. I just recently booked a fight from a small city to LIH on a double connection through DEN. If the flight isn’t likely to operate, it would be nice to know with a little advance notice so I can reconsider my options, which might include staying over a night on the west coast. Obviously, there are other pieces that have to be locked in like hotel rooms, some of which are asking for non refundable guarantees in this strange post-COVID environment.

I was burnt by United just after the holidays on a similar situation. I booked 2p flight from small city to Chicago about 6-8 weeks out, only to have them cancel all but the 6a flight in a schedule change. Meanwhile AA was operating 2-3 times a day. If I would have known, I would have booked AA in the first place. Moreover, I was honestly really ticked that I was put in this position, which doesn’t do well for my thoughts on UA in general.


If you don't mind which small city are you traveling from and can you provide a date in which you are looking to travel. The reason I'm asking is because I've posted this response to you before late last year and again several times this year in an attempt to help you because it can be frustrating when an airline changes your travel plans.

If you don't want to provide that information that is fine but like I stated before in other post your best indicator on what will operated (lets say for example in June) is to look at which flights are operating in April and May and perhaps even look at to March. You currently have 2 full months worth of schedule loaded for April and May May's schedule was completed and published before March was over.

Now what you should not do (and I hope I'm not coming off as condescending or disrespectful) is this if you are looking to fly out on a Wednesday again using June as an example, you should be looking at Wednesday's schedule in April and May to use as a comparison or a starting point. United's flight schedule increases daily starting on Thursday, increases on Fridays, increases on Saturdays, Sundays are our busiest days, then there is a slight reduction on Mondays, and flights bottom out on Tuesday and Wednesdays. So if you are flying out on a Wednesday then don't look at a Sunday schedule for comparison look at an actual Wednesday schedule in April and May and use that schedule as your guide to what the June's schedule will look like.

United is no longer do major cuts to the schedule, meaning we are not reducing capacity we are increasing capacity because for now the industry is in an upswing. What does that mean for you, that means even if for the month of April and May (both schedules are 100% complete) United only has a 6 am flight and you book that 6 am flight for your travel needs in June and United decides to add a 9 am flight when they post the June schedule you haven't lost anything. You can still take that 9 am flight and shorten your connection time because now you have the ability to do same day standby for free. And United recently announced they will now refund passengers the difference if the 9 am flight is cheaper than the 6 am instead of keeping the change.

We all are adults here we all know we are still in a pandemic there are ways for you to figure out what the future schedule will be and make your decision to purchase or not to purchase a ticket based on that information.
 
Cboyle
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:17 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
From JonNYC:
“Get in touch if you’ve heard rumor of huge breaking UA news”
What do you think?

Maybe this has to do with Kirbys instagram story?

The tweet has since been deleted fwiw.

What was the IG story?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14348
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:22 am

Cboyle wrote:
From JonNYC:
“Get in touch if you’ve heard rumor of huge breaking UA news”
What do you think?


Hopefully not in regards to the Pratt Powered 777
fleet.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:00 am

Cboyle wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
From JonNYC:
“Get in touch if you’ve heard rumor of huge breaking UA news”
What do you think?

Maybe this has to do with Kirbys instagram story?

The tweet has since been deleted fwiw.

What was the IG story?

There will be a 'meaningful' announcement this week.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:20 am

gwrudolph wrote:
sircygnus wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

Well since you had to . . . To use macro LF as evidence that the strategy is the best course of action in the long-term is an oversimplification. It certainly doesn’t speak to the “griping” that some customers were doing regarding the fact that their preferred carrier, United, has a schedule that can’t get them where they want to go when they want to go relative to the competition, and AA in particular

I'm curious to what people here think about events that would need to take place in order for United to begin solidifying schedules more than a month out. While I'm certainly not thrilled with schedules being rolled out a month in advance I understand the rationale behind it. My question is what does everything think would need to change in order for United to start firming up schedules 2-3 months out, then 3-5 months in advance etc.


Fair question.

Just to be clear, I and some others were commenting on the lack of schedule to certain out cities. Some of us are loyal to United, but as explained in the thread, it is becoming increasingly difficult to continue being loyal when United’s schedule is in some cases so much thinner than the other choices. Coupled with the question of status being grandfathered again, it starts to beg the question of whether or not it is more opportune than ever to consider switch.

As it relates to advance schedule, it is challenging, especially to/from smaller cities when one books a flight and makes plans around that flight, when there is little intention to operate it. I just recently booked a fight from a small city to LIH on a double connection through DEN. If the flight isn’t likely to operate, it would be nice to know with a little advance notice so I can reconsider my options, which might include staying over a night on the west coast. Obviously, there are other pieces that have to be locked in like hotel rooms, some of which are asking for non refundable guarantees in this strange post-COVID environment.

I was burnt by United just after the holidays on a similar situation. I booked 2p flight from small city to Chicago about 6-8 weeks out, only to have them cancel all but the 6a flight in a schedule change. Meanwhile AA was operating 2-3 times a day. If I would have known, I would have booked AA in the first place. Moreover, I was honestly really ticked that I was put in this position, which doesn’t do well for my thoughts on UA in general.

I get it. It is a difficult time for UA and all carriers, but it is making it difficult for me to use UA, the carrier with which I am traditionally loyal. Unless I am the only loyal seeing it this way, hopefully this wise short term strategy doesn’t backfire for them in the long term

Hope this makes sense


I get you and feel your pain. However, the response was predictable. Trying to be loyal to United out of my small city (SHV) is extremely hard. They haven't run the SHV-DEN flight since last March (even with offer of full subsidy mind you) while American and Delta are almost back to Pre-Covid schedule. However, United continues to offer the flight month after month. I still think it's bait and switch. A single connect 4 or 5 hour total travel time turns into double connect 10 -12 hour travel time. By the time the schedule change arrives, they then offer you the flight credit while you scramble to purchase the alternative airline flight that you tried to avoid to begin with. HOWEVER, the hub and large city guys will never see it. They will talk about how the pain of the financials is guiding the decision making. Sure, that makes perfect sense. Cut the flights with potential $600 - $700 RT fares while preserving and continuing with the $79 and$99 ULCC fares. The retort will always be that there was no demand and the route planners know what they are doing (I guess the Delta and AA planners are idiots).

I know this comes across as snarky and sarcastic, but those of us in the smaller markets keep trying to tell the other folks the reality on the ground and it is getting nowhere. I've got a group of 16 going to Medford in late May. Of course, the update came out and the scramble was on to go from the single Denver connection (that the group desk made) to the double connect via IAH and LAX. The return is in June and I can't wait to see what happens with that. The 1245pm departure will turn into 6am or earlier...and we will be told "just to deal with it" or we "should have planned" better. We did. We had the GROUP DESK offer us what they think they are going to fly.

Hopefully by July, per jayunited, this will mostly be a thing of the past and DEN will be restored to pre-covid glory on the domestic front. I'm still pulling for United and all of the employees as best that I can. I have tried hard to support with my dollars but please don't force me to use my feet and go elsewhere.
 
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ChaseP
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:49 am

Storage Update:
N41140 (Boeing 757-200) scheduled to ferry from ROW to MCO (UA2717/06) for heavy maintenance before re-entering service.
N36447 (Boeing 737-900ER) status changed to stored at CLE.

Paint Update:
N24706 (Boeing 737-700) scheduled to ferry from VCV to IAH (UA2699/06) after receiving EvoBlue paint.
N15712 (Boeing 737-700) scheduled to ferry from IAH to VCV (UA2756/06) for EvoBlue paint.
 
avi8
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:06 am

Interesting that they are painting 737-700s only. I wonder when a second line for narrow body aircraft will open up.
avi8
 
User avatar
ChaseP
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:52 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:09 am

That's a good question. When they first started painting in early 2019, they only painted the 737-800s. I'm sure there is a method to their madness. I know there are a number of 757s that desperately need new paint.

avi8 wrote:
Interesting that they are painting 737-700s only. I wonder when a second line for narrow body aircraft will open up.
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:26 am

I noticed the 764 in the schedules for May...are those birds going to be back in the fleet that soon? Or is that going to be replaced in the schedule?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2176
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:29 am

drerx7 wrote:
I noticed the 764 in the schedules for May...are those birds going to be back in the fleet that soon? Or is that going to be replaced in the schedule?


Last I heard was that the 764s will be used initially from EWR and IAD to Hawaii in place of the PW777s. I don't have confirmation of that, though or precisely when that will begin.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 am

FlyHossD wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
I noticed the 764 in the schedules for May...are those birds going to be back in the fleet that soon? Or is that going to be replaced in the schedule?


Last I heard was that the 764s will be used initially from EWR and IAD to Hawaii in place of the PW777s. I don't have confirmation of that, though or precisely when that will begin.


There is 1 764 in HKG now along with 2 763 and 1 PW 772. I think when some of those start to leave HKG they will bring more 764 out of storage and start preparing them for service.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:24 am

789:
N19986 scheduled delivery flight 2707 on 4/7 to SFO for induction
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:39 am

Golfmikey wrote:
789:
N19986 scheduled delivery flight 2707 on 4/7 to SFO for induction

With Polaris installed I presume.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
jayunited
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:49 pm

LGeneReese wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
789:
N19986 scheduled delivery flight 2707 on 4/7 to SFO for induction

With Polaris installed I presume.



From what I can see (and I don't have access to the entire maintenance system) I believe N19986 has Polaris installed.

I've inquired about what happened with N28987 and why that aircraft left CHS without Polaris and so far all I've gotten is crickets. I don't even want to assume to know what happened because right now I don't have any information to base an assumption off of.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:03 pm

jayunited wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
789:
N19986 scheduled delivery flight 2707 on 4/7 to SFO for induction

With Polaris installed I presume.



From what I can see (and I don't have access to the entire maintenance system) I believe N19986 has Polaris installed.

I've inquired about what happened with N28987 and why that aircraft left CHS without Polaris and so far all I've gotten is crickets. I don't even want to assume to know what happened because right now I don't have any information to base an assumption off of.


Is the onboard Polaris product modified like domestic first is modified?
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:50 pm

LGeneReese wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
789:
N19986 scheduled delivery flight 2707 on 4/7 to SFO for induction

With Polaris installed I presume.


986 has Polaris installed.
 
Tyroneguy
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:10 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
jayunited wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
With Polaris installed I presume.



From what I can see (and I don't have access to the entire maintenance system) I believe N19986 has Polaris installed.

I've inquired about what happened with N28987 and why that aircraft left CHS without Polaris and so far all I've gotten is crickets. I don't even want to assume to know what happened because right now I don't have any information to base an assumption off of.


Is the onboard Polaris product modified like domestic first is modified?


There's no difference in service based on aircraft type.
 
AA94
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
I've inquired about what happened with N28987 and why that aircraft left CHS without Polaris and so far all I've gotten is crickets. I don't even want to assume to know what happened because right now I don't have any information to base an assumption off of.


There was a spare shipset of Polaris seats already in XMN, so the decision was made to ferry there to utilize them. Not sure if it was a strictly cost-saving initiative (use what you have rather than "buying" new), or if there were other complicating factors.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
As it relates to advance schedule, it is challenging, especially to/from smaller cities when one books a flight and makes plans around that flight, when there is little intention to operate it. I just recently booked a fight from a small city to LIH on a double connection through DEN. If the flight isn’t likely to operate, it would be nice to know with a little advance notice so I can reconsider my options, which might include staying over a night on the west coast. Obviously, there are other pieces that have to be locked in like hotel rooms, some of which are asking for non refundable guarantees in this strange post-COVID environment.

I was burnt by United just after the holidays on a similar situation. I booked 2p flight from small city to Chicago about 6-8 weeks out, only to have them cancel all but the 6a flight in a schedule change. Meanwhile AA was operating 2-3 times a day. If I would have known, I would have booked AA in the first place. Moreover, I was honestly really ticked that I was put in this position, which doesn’t do well for my thoughts on UA in general.


If you don't mind which small city are you traveling from and can you provide a date in which you are looking to travel. The reason I'm asking is because I've posted this response to you before late last year and again several times this year in an attempt to help you because it can be frustrating when an airline changes your travel plans.

If you don't want to provide that information that is fine but like I stated before in other post your best indicator on what will operated (lets say for example in June) is to look at which flights are operating in April and May and perhaps even look at to March. You currently have 2 full months worth of schedule loaded for April and May May's schedule was completed and published before March was over.

Now what you should not do (and I hope I'm not coming off as condescending or disrespectful) is this if you are looking to fly out on a Wednesday again using June as an example, you should be looking at Wednesday's schedule in April and May to use as a comparison or a starting point. United's flight schedule increases daily starting on Thursday, increases on Fridays, increases on Saturdays, Sundays are our busiest days, then there is a slight reduction on Mondays, and flights bottom out on Tuesday and Wednesdays. So if you are flying out on a Wednesday then don't look at a Sunday schedule for comparison look at an actual Wednesday schedule in April and May and use that schedule as your guide to what the June's schedule will look like.

United is no longer do major cuts to the schedule, meaning we are not reducing capacity we are increasing capacity because for now the industry is in an upswing. What does that mean for you, that means even if for the month of April and May (both schedules are 100% complete) United only has a 6 am flight and you book that 6 am flight for your travel needs in June and United decides to add a 9 am flight when they post the June schedule you haven't lost anything. You can still take that 9 am flight and shorten your connection time because now you have the ability to do same day standby for free. And United recently announced they will now refund passengers the difference if the 9 am flight is cheaper than the 6 am instead of keeping the change.

We all are adults here we all know we are still in a pandemic there are ways for you to figure out what the future schedule will be and make your decision to purchase or not to purchase a ticket based on that information.


Thanks for the very helpful advice!
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