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sfojvjets
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:49 pm

jayunited wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Interestingly these new requirements only apply to DEL not BOM which continues to operate normally.


Pretty sure that's because although covid was worse in BOM before, it is in fact decreasing as of right now. In DEL, it's the opposite - decent situation before, and now it's a mess. DEL is the hotspot where the greatest single-day surges are happening, and I imagine it's hard to transit right now since borders are being closed between the various states. So maybe it makes sense for the Indian govt to treat BOM and DEL as independent situations.

On a separate note, I wonder how long it'll take SFO to snag that BOM route...
 
flyfresno
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like UA gave in and finally decided on a bigger schedule, like the rest of the US airlines. Mostly thanks to DEN, ORD, and IAH.

"In June, United will fly its largest schedule since before the pandemic to meet growing demand for summer travel. The airline is adding more than 480 daily flights to its U.S. schedule to offer an average of over 3,100 total daily domestic flights to more than 240 U.S. destinations. This includes the addition of new flights to Hawaii, Alaska and Montana. Overall, United plans to fly 67% of its domestic schedule and 60% of its overall network schedule compared to its 2019 June schedule."

https://hub.united.com/2021-04-23-unite ... 54559.html


"Last month when United announced 26 brand new direct summer flights from Midwest cities to seven coastal destinations in the Southeast and New England, the airline received nearly 5,000 bookings for these routes in the first 48 hours."


So, have these routes already been loaded, or are they coming this weekend?
 
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cosyr
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
"Last month when United announced 26 brand new direct summer flights from Midwest cities to seven coastal destinations in the Southeast and New England, the airline received nearly 5,000 bookings for these routes in the first 48 hours."


United in the earnings call noted 3,000 bookings for the new seasonal TATL routes in the first 24 hours.


UA obviously did their homework on these new route additions. They've been very conservative thus far, but the additions they made all make a lot of sense.

I have to say, I don't entirely understand what UA is doing in recent weeks. Tickets I was looking at to Mexico, were in the $800 range, and jumped to $3500. On other days, it is less at ~$1200. Everyday and every local airport are similar, including hubs. If I were to drive 4 hours to EWR, it is $800 up from $400 a couple weeks ago.

What is strange is, some hubs don't have nonstops to CUN, others have only 1 flight on a Saturday (the day that resorts want you to arrive and depart.) but they have a couple flights on a Sunday or Monday. All the while DL, AA and others are ~$500, which in 2019 would have been high. I don't really understand. Yeah, it would be profitable to get one person to pay $3500, rather than 7 people at $500, but who is that person that is going to pay 7 times as much for the privilege of flying 2 connections on UA?
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:35 pm

cosyr wrote:
tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:

United in the earnings call noted 3,000 bookings for the new seasonal TATL routes in the first 24 hours.


UA obviously did their homework on these new route additions. They've been very conservative thus far, but the additions they made all make a lot of sense.

I have to say, I don't entirely understand what UA is doing in recent weeks. Tickets I was looking at to Mexico, were in the $800 range, and jumped to $3500. On other days, it is less at ~$1200. Everyday and every local airport are similar, including hubs. If I were to drive 4 hours to EWR, it is $800 up from $400 a couple weeks ago.

What is strange is, some hubs don't have nonstops to CUN, others have only 1 flight on a Saturday (the day that resorts want you to arrive and depart.) but they have a couple flights on a Sunday or Monday. All the while DL, AA and others are ~$500, which in 2019 would have been high. I don't really understand. Yeah, it would be profitable to get one person to pay $3500, rather than 7 people at $500, but who is that person that is going to pay 7 times as much for the privilege of flying 2 connections on UA?


Basically no one. Their systems are jacked right now because of all the load changes, schedule changes etc. It makes predicting harder and the software is overestimating demand it sounds like to me.
 
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ChaseP
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:35 am

Maintenance Update:
N67052 (Boeing 767-400ER) is scheduled for two ferries. Once in EWR, the plane will undergo an engine change before entering service.
(1) GUM > HNL (UA2746/24)
(2) HNL > EWR (UA2747/24)

N78008 (Boeing 777-200ER) is scheduled to ferry from HKG to NRT (UA2688/26) after heavy maintenance.

Polaris Update:
N45905 (Boeing 787-8) is scheduled to ferry from SFO to NRT (UA2815/27) for Polaris. Aircraft will fly to XMN for seats and swap with N20904.
Note: N45905 is currently the lone remaining 787-8 without Polaris seating config.
 
AA94
Posts: 785
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:39 pm

flyfresno wrote:

So, have these routes already been loaded, or are they coming this weekend?


Final June schedule and fleeting is loaded this weekend, so by Monday everything should be loaded.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1366
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:50 pm

ChaseP wrote:
N872UA (Airbus 319) is scheduled to ferry from SFO to VCV (UA2731/23) for EvoBlue paint. NOTE: Aircraft is currently in China Southern livery


Image

Image

Image

(Photo credit to Jimmy.)
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 729
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:58 pm

cosyr wrote:
tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:

United in the earnings call noted 3,000 bookings for the new seasonal TATL routes in the first 24 hours.


UA obviously did their homework on these new route additions. They've been very conservative thus far, but the additions they made all make a lot of sense.

I have to say, I don't entirely understand what UA is doing in recent weeks. Tickets I was looking at to Mexico, were in the $800 range, and jumped to $3500. On other days, it is less at ~$1200. Everyday and every local airport are similar, including hubs. If I were to drive 4 hours to EWR, it is $800 up from $400 a couple weeks ago.

What is strange is, some hubs don't have nonstops to CUN, others have only 1 flight on a Saturday (the day that resorts want you to arrive and depart.) but they have a couple flights on a Sunday or Monday. All the while DL, AA and others are ~$500, which in 2019 would have been high. I don't really understand. Yeah, it would be profitable to get one person to pay $3500, rather than 7 people at $500, but who is that person that is going to pay 7 times as much for the privilege of flying 2 connections on UA?

Its not that hubs don’t have flights or only one flight to CUN - it’s that the others are already sold out and unavailable. This is what happens when they trim the schedule and consolidate flights. It’s leaving revenue on the table because there’s no more seats left to sell 4-6 weeks out. This has been an ongoing problem.

For example. July 10th. IAH-CUN... 4 of the 6 flights are now oversold after consolidation. So basically over the next 10 weeks if anyone want's to book IAH-CUN or a connection through IAH there's very limited inventory. They'll book elsewhere.
Last edited by Scarebus34 on Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1276
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:00 pm

adamblang wrote:
ChaseP wrote:
N872UA (Airbus 319) is scheduled to ferry from SFO to VCV (UA2731/23) for EvoBlue paint. NOTE: Aircraft is currently in China Southern livery


Image

Image

Image

(Photo credit to Jimmy.)


Great pictures. So weird to CZ on the outside and UA inside.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:27 pm

I was just looking at some of the Hawaii routes for this summer and noticed non-stop OGG to EWR and ORD. I remember in the past that OGG often routed through KOA on the e/b leg to get full fuel, but now it is listed non-stop. Did something change with OGG’s runway situation or is it due to 788 and low density 763’s performing better? Or both?
 
AC4500
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:57 pm

It looks like United's schedule from June 3 to June 17 appears to be finalized. Anything beyond that is still likely to change.
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 95
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:20 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
I was just looking at some of the Hawaii routes for this summer and noticed non-stop OGG to EWR and ORD. I remember in the past that OGG often routed through KOA on the e/b leg to get full fuel, but now it is listed non-stop. Did something change with OGG’s runway situation or is it due to 788 and low density 763’s performing better? Or both?


This is a great question that I have had as well.

I know the low-density 763 is NOT scheduled on the ORD flight, rather the 30/184 configuration operates. My anecdotal experience this spring is OGG-ORD has operated close to full on many dates, with no passenger weight restrictions in place.

Maybe jayunited can chime in on his experience particularly if there is any cargo of note operated on this route?
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:04 pm

There have been nonstop OGG-ORD flights with the 772A since December 2017.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1950
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:38 pm

AC4500 wrote:
It looks like United's schedule from June 3 to June 17 appears to be finalized. Anything beyond that is still likely to change.


It’s good through the end of June I believe.
 
AC4500
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
It looks like United's schedule from June 3 to June 17 appears to be finalized. Anything beyond that is still likely to change.


It’s good through the end of June I believe.

That's what I thought at first, but after looking through some the schedule again, you're right.

From June 17 to the end of the month, some markets have a drastic change in frequencies (mainly routes from ORD and EWR), but maybe they're splitting up the June schedule in two separate halves instead of using the same exact schedule for the entire month.
 
xxcr
Posts: 472
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:58 pm

CALMSP wrote:
cosyr wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
my Max flight today was swapped to a 739, which sucked b/c UA unassigned my seat when they swapped a/c.

That;s odd. I thought they had the same seating chart?


they do, which is why I don't understand, so now its a matter of asking someone to switch with either me or MRS. Pain!


The 739 fleet has 3 different seating chart, which might explain why your seat assignment changed.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:35 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Its not that hubs don’t have flights or only one flight to CUN - it’s that the others are already sold out and unavailable. This is what happens when they trim the schedule and consolidate flights. It’s leaving revenue on the table because there’s no more seats left to sell 4-6 weeks out. This has been an ongoing problem.

For example. July 10th. IAH-CUN... 4 of the 6 flights are now oversold after consolidation. So basically over the next 10 weeks if anyone want's to book IAH-CUN or a connection through IAH there's very limited inventory. They'll book elsewhere.


So the July schedule has been finalized already? We just saw United add 480 more flights to June schedule and looking at June's Saturday schedule from the US to CUN on UA.

IAH-CUN 7x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 5x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 5x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Satardays'
LAX-CUN 2x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturdays

Compared to May's Saturday schedule
IAH-CUN 5x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 3x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 3x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Saturday's
LAX-CUN 1x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturday's

July's schedule has not been finalized yet so perhaps between now and whenever that happens UA will add more capacity to CUN.

And as far as price United price is right up there is both American and Delta. All 3 airlines on multiple Saturday's in May have flights that are sold out flights priced over $850 dollars. Heck on May 22nd Delta out of Atlanta on a few of their flights is charging over $1100 dollars for coach with limited availability remaining on nonstop flights. There is simply to much demand for travel to CUN on Saturday's, if people are looking to save money they should consider traveling on a non-peak day. So to keep coming after United and complaining about for sold out flights and high prices is ridiculous because United isn't the only carrier with this problem of to much demand and not enough supply to CUN on Saturdays.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 729
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:10 pm

jayunited wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Its not that hubs don’t have flights or only one flight to CUN - it’s that the others are already sold out and unavailable. This is what happens when they trim the schedule and consolidate flights. It’s leaving revenue on the table because there’s no more seats left to sell 4-6 weeks out. This has been an ongoing problem.

For example. July 10th. IAH-CUN... 4 of the 6 flights are now oversold after consolidation. So basically over the next 10 weeks if anyone want's to book IAH-CUN or a connection through IAH there's very limited inventory. They'll book elsewhere.


So the July schedule has been finalized already? We just saw United add 480 more flights to June schedule and looking at June's Saturday schedule from the US to CUN on UA.

IAH-CUN 7x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 5x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 5x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Satardays'
LAX-CUN 2x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturdays

Compared to May's Saturday schedule
IAH-CUN 5x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 3x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 3x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Saturday's
LAX-CUN 1x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturday's

July's schedule has not been finalized yet so perhaps between now and whenever that happens UA will add more capacity to CUN.

And as far as price United price is right up there is both American and Delta. All 3 airlines on multiple Saturday's in May have flights that are sold out flights priced over $850 dollars. Heck on May 22nd Delta out of Atlanta on a few of their flights is charging over $1100 dollars for coach with limited availability remaining on nonstop flights. There is simply to much demand for travel to CUN on Saturday's, if people are looking to save money they should consider traveling on a non-peak day. So to keep coming after United and complaining about for sold out flights and high prices is ridiculous because United isn't the only carrier with this problem of to much demand and not enough supply to CUN on Saturdays.

That's not the point. The point is - that's why flights aren't showing up. They are booked full after schedule adjustments. Sure, they may add a flight here or there but people don't sit around and wait to see if a flight gets added, they just book elsewhere.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Its not that hubs don’t have flights or only one flight to CUN - it’s that the others are already sold out and unavailable. This is what happens when they trim the schedule and consolidate flights. It’s leaving revenue on the table because there’s no more seats left to sell 4-6 weeks out. This has been an ongoing problem.

For example. July 10th. IAH-CUN... 4 of the 6 flights are now oversold after consolidation. So basically over the next 10 weeks if anyone want's to book IAH-CUN or a connection through IAH there's very limited inventory. They'll book elsewhere.


So the July schedule has been finalized already? We just saw United add 480 more flights to June schedule and looking at June's Saturday schedule from the US to CUN on UA.

IAH-CUN 7x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 5x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 5x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Satardays'
LAX-CUN 2x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturdays

Compared to May's Saturday schedule
IAH-CUN 5x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 3x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 3x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Saturday's
LAX-CUN 1x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturday's

July's schedule has not been finalized yet so perhaps between now and whenever that happens UA will add more capacity to CUN.

And as far as price United price is right up there is both American and Delta. All 3 airlines on multiple Saturday's in May have flights that are sold out flights priced over $850 dollars. Heck on May 22nd Delta out of Atlanta on a few of their flights is charging over $1100 dollars for coach with limited availability remaining on nonstop flights. There is simply to much demand for travel to CUN on Saturday's, if people are looking to save money they should consider traveling on a non-peak day. So to keep coming after United and complaining about for sold out flights and high prices is ridiculous because United isn't the only carrier with this problem of to much demand and not enough supply to CUN on Saturdays.

I don't believe all those flights are fully booked, and the other airlines are not up there too, they are $700-3000 less! Why would people be so desperate to fly UA, that they would skip over $500 fares on DL and AA, to pay $1200+ on UA for 2 connections instead of 1? Also, why would there be so much demand for CUN compared with say 2019? Sure there are limited places people can fly Int'l right now, but there is also not a dozen new resorts in CUN to accommodate them. CUN has certainly booked up resorts at different times, and I'm sure the airlines were able to move those pax. If all these flights really are too full, it's time to start upgauging. One way or another, something is not right with how UA is managing future bookings.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1276
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:08 am

cosyr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Its not that hubs don’t have flights or only one flight to CUN - it’s that the others are already sold out and unavailable. This is what happens when they trim the schedule and consolidate flights. It’s leaving revenue on the table because there’s no more seats left to sell 4-6 weeks out. This has been an ongoing problem.

For example. July 10th. IAH-CUN... 4 of the 6 flights are now oversold after consolidation. So basically over the next 10 weeks if anyone want's to book IAH-CUN or a connection through IAH there's very limited inventory. They'll book elsewhere.


So the July schedule has been finalized already? We just saw United add 480 more flights to June schedule and looking at June's Saturday schedule from the US to CUN on UA.

IAH-CUN 7x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 5x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 5x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Satardays'
LAX-CUN 2x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturdays

Compared to May's Saturday schedule
IAH-CUN 5x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 3x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 3x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Saturday's
LAX-CUN 1x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturday's

July's schedule has not been finalized yet so perhaps between now and whenever that happens UA will add more capacity to CUN.

And as far as price United price is right up there is both American and Delta. All 3 airlines on multiple Saturday's in May have flights that are sold out flights priced over $850 dollars. Heck on May 22nd Delta out of Atlanta on a few of their flights is charging over $1100 dollars for coach with limited availability remaining on nonstop flights. There is simply to much demand for travel to CUN on Saturday's, if people are looking to save money they should consider traveling on a non-peak day. So to keep coming after United and complaining about for sold out flights and high prices is ridiculous because United isn't the only carrier with this problem of to much demand and not enough supply to CUN on Saturdays.

I don't believe all those flights are fully booked, and the other airlines are not up there too, they are $700-3000 less! Why would people be so desperate to fly UA, that they would skip over $500 fares on DL and AA, to pay $1200+ on UA for 2 connections instead of 1? Also, why would there be so much demand for CUN compared with say 2019? Sure there are limited places people can fly Int'l right now, but there is also not a dozen new resorts in CUN to accommodate them. CUN has certainly booked up resorts at different times, and I'm sure the airlines were able to move those pax. If all these flights really are too full, it's time to start upgauging. One way or another, something is not right with how UA is managing future bookings.


The point here isn’t about other airlines, but rather that United has a huge parked fleet and underutilized employee base so anywhere there is demand they should be flying more.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:35 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
cosyr wrote:
jayunited wrote:

So the July schedule has been finalized already? We just saw United add 480 more flights to June schedule and looking at June's Saturday schedule from the US to CUN on UA.

IAH-CUN 7x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 5x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 5x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Satardays'
LAX-CUN 2x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturdays

Compared to May's Saturday schedule
IAH-CUN 5x Saturday's
EWR-CUN 3x Saturday's
DEN-CUN 3x Saturday's
ORD-CUN 2x Saturday's
SFO-CUN 2x Saturday's
LAX-CUN 1x Saturday's
IAD-CUN 1x Saturday's
CLE-CUN 1x Saturday's

July's schedule has not been finalized yet so perhaps between now and whenever that happens UA will add more capacity to CUN.

And as far as price United price is right up there is both American and Delta. All 3 airlines on multiple Saturday's in May have flights that are sold out flights priced over $850 dollars. Heck on May 22nd Delta out of Atlanta on a few of their flights is charging over $1100 dollars for coach with limited availability remaining on nonstop flights. There is simply to much demand for travel to CUN on Saturday's, if people are looking to save money they should consider traveling on a non-peak day. So to keep coming after United and complaining about for sold out flights and high prices is ridiculous because United isn't the only carrier with this problem of to much demand and not enough supply to CUN on Saturdays.

I don't believe all those flights are fully booked, and the other airlines are not up there too, they are $700-3000 less! Why would people be so desperate to fly UA, that they would skip over $500 fares on DL and AA, to pay $1200+ on UA for 2 connections instead of 1? Also, why would there be so much demand for CUN compared with say 2019? Sure there are limited places people can fly Int'l right now, but there is also not a dozen new resorts in CUN to accommodate them. CUN has certainly booked up resorts at different times, and I'm sure the airlines were able to move those pax. If all these flights really are too full, it's time to start upgauging. One way or another, something is not right with how UA is managing future bookings.


The point here isn’t about other airlines, but rather that United has a huge parked fleet and underutilized employee base so anywhere there is demand they should be flying more.

Agreed. I hope they don't miss the whole summer.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:59 am

Boy, looking at just random seat maps on IAH spokes, loads are really healthy. (Yes, yes...I know seat maps can’t be 100% trusted nor are they a sign of yield...that is one chorus I wish would stop being sung)

That seems to have been the trend and will be interesting if the pace can be maintained as the banks return /frequencies go up.

I have to believe that some portion of that is returning business traffic as well.
 
RTWin10
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:15 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:34 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:

The point here isn’t about other airlines, but rather that United has a huge parked fleet and underutilized employee base so anywhere there is demand they should be flying more.


What about yield? Just because there’s a ton of demand doesn’t mean you’ll make money on it.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:58 pm

RTWin10 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

The point here isn’t about other airlines, but rather that United has a huge parked fleet and underutilized employee base so anywhere there is demand they should be flying more.


What about yield? Just because there’s a ton of demand doesn’t mean you’ll make money on it.



Wasn’t he making his point in conjunction with the ticket price discussion?

Not being rude. But those of us in spoke cities aren’t seeing bottom feeder fares anymore. If revenue management lets a plane go out full and still not profitable in 2021, something is seriously wrong.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 6212
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:17 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
RTWin10 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

The point here isn’t about other airlines, but rather that United has a huge parked fleet and underutilized employee base so anywhere there is demand they should be flying more.


What about yield? Just because there’s a ton of demand doesn’t mean you’ll make money on it.



Wasn’t he making his point in conjunction with the ticket price discussion?

Not being rude. But those of us in spoke cities aren’t seeing bottom feeder fares anymore. If revenue management lets a plane go out full and still not profitable in 2021, something is seriously wrong.


This isn't April 2020, fares in most places have recovered as LFs have risen:

Andrew Nocella, United's chief commercial officer: "Average fares paid for mid-June domestic leisure trips so far are up from June 2019"

Andrew Harrison, Alaska's chief commercial officer: "Alaska Airlines' average fares for peak summer flights booked to date are higher than 2019"

Vasu Raja, chief revenue officer for American: "Booked ticket prices at the beginning of the year were about half of 2019 levels. As the airline looks out to early summer bookings, he said, the figure is up to 90%."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 333087002/
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25467
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:43 pm

On the yield, keep in mind that in United's case, approx 20% percent of current booking are customers burning off previous credits, which means essentially reduced if not minimal new income associated with these customers. So yes there are people to fly, but many earn UA no money.

For the industry macro scale, the road to breakeven means carefully managing capacity. I would rather err on side of holding capacity back and managing flights to profit than supplying extra capacity and sit in red ink.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1103
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:28 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On the yield, keep in mind that in United's case, approx 20% percent of current booking are customers burning off previous credits, which means essentially reduced if not minimal new income associated with these customers. So yes there are people to fly, but many earn UA no money.

For the industry macro scale, the road to breakeven means carefully managing capacity. I would rather err on side of holding capacity back and managing flights to profit than supplying extra capacity and sit in red ink.


This is a very good point! I have several freinds who have thousands in credits from last years cancelled trips. I have a close freind who is waiting for Tahiti to reopen and are planning to use their credits to get there.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:40 pm

LAXintl wrote:
On the yield, keep in mind that in United's case, approx 20% percent of current booking are customers burning off previous credits, which means essentially reduced if not minimal new income associated with these customers. So yes there are people to fly, but many earn UA no money.

For the industry macro scale, the road to breakeven means carefully managing capacity. I would rather err on side of holding capacity back and managing flights to profit than supplying extra capacity and sit in red ink.


So, basically make it hard for their customers who were refused refunds a year ago to use their funds. Btw - redeeming future flight credits is a pain in the butt. We let them hold our money and we bailed them out with our taxes, but as always it is a one way street w the airlines and their customers.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:02 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
On the yield, keep in mind that in United's case, approx 20% percent of current booking are customers burning off previous credits, which means essentially reduced if not minimal new income associated with these customers. So yes there are people to fly, but many earn UA no money.

For the industry macro scale, the road to breakeven means carefully managing capacity. I would rather err on side of holding capacity back and managing flights to profit than supplying extra capacity and sit in red ink.


This is a very good point! I have several freinds who have thousands in credits from last years cancelled trips. I have a close freind who is waiting for Tahiti to reopen and are planning to use their credits to get there.


Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript
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JFKalumni
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:26 pm

Welcome back 767-400. She’s sitting at EWR.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:44 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Btw - redeeming future flight credits is a pain in the butt. We let them hold our money and we bailed them out with our taxes, but as always it is a one way street w the airlines and their customers.

It's not that hard. You log into your account and click the button.

Image
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:19 pm

adamblang wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Btw - redeeming future flight credits is a pain in the butt. We let them hold our money and we bailed them out with our taxes, but as always it is a one way street w the airlines and their customers.

It's not that hard. You log into your account and click the button.

Image


Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:

Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


A sales note that approximately 1 in 5 customers are using credits as a form of payment.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:31 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
adamblang wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Btw - redeeming future flight credits is a pain in the butt. We let them hold our money and we bailed them out with our taxes, but as always it is a one way street w the airlines and their customers.

It's not that hard. You log into your account and click the button.

Image


Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.


I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
On the yield, keep in mind that in United's case, approx 20% percent of current booking are customers burning off previous credits, which means essentially reduced if not minimal new income associated with these customers. So yes there are people to fly, but many earn UA no money.

For the industry macro scale, the road to breakeven means carefully managing capacity. I would rather err on side of holding capacity back and managing flights to profit than supplying extra capacity and sit in red ink.


This is a very good point! I have several freinds who have thousands in credits from last years cancelled trips. I have a close freind who is waiting for Tahiti to reopen and are planning to use their credits to get there.


Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


It sounded like 20% to me on the call. Those SeekingAlpha transcripts are a great resource, but are mostly auto-generated and thus notorious for errors.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:56 pm

codc10 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

This is a very good point! I have several freinds who have thousands in credits from last years cancelled trips. I have a close freind who is waiting for Tahiti to reopen and are planning to use their credits to get there.


Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


It sounded like 20% to me on the call. Those SeekingAlpha transcripts are a great resource, but are mostly auto-generated and thus notorious for errors.

Isn't it the case though that airlines can't count any money until they carry those passengers.... i.e. that you can't run a Ponzi scheme airline that pays for current operations of off constantly increasing forward bookings, that is, that the airline actually has to carry the passenger before they're able to credit the money earned against their books by accounting rules?
I thought I heard that on here somewhere a few years ago in the midst of discussions about Norwegian Air Shuttles' massive expansions.
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"Truth, and the love which it reveals, cannot be produced: they can only be received as a gift."
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:02 pm

codc10 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

This is a very good point! I have several freinds who have thousands in credits from last years cancelled trips. I have a close freind who is waiting for Tahiti to reopen and are planning to use their credits to get there.


Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


It sounded like 20% to me on the call. Those SeekingAlpha transcripts are a great resource, but are mostly auto-generated and thus notorious for errors.


Multiple outlets are reporting the 12% number
https://thepointsguy.com/news/long-airl ... er-travel/

20% would be higher than every airline in the US, DL was in the low teens in Q4 2020, and likely even lower now.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -deadlines
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-tran ... -transcri/

SumChristianus wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


It sounded like 20% to me on the call. Those SeekingAlpha transcripts are a great resource, but are mostly auto-generated and thus notorious for errors.

Isn't it the case though that airlines can't count any money until they carry those passengers.... i.e. that you can't run a Ponzi scheme airline that pays for current operations of off constantly increasing forward bookings, that is, that the airline actually has to carry the passenger before they're able to credit the money earned against their books by accounting rules?
I thought I heard that on here somewhere a few years ago in the midst of discussions about Norwegian Air Shuttles' massive expansions.


You are talking about revenue vs. cash flow, you can't recognize revenue until passenger is flown, but cash comes in before that.
Last edited by Midwestindy on Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:03 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Isn't it the case though that airlines can't count any money until they carry those passengers.... i.e. that you can't run a Ponzi scheme airline that pays for current operations of off constantly increasing forward bookings, that is, that the airline actually has to carry the passenger before they're able to credit the money earned against their books by accounting rules?
I thought I heard that on here somewhere a few years ago in the midst of discussions about Norwegian Air Shuttles' massive expansions.


The money received in 2020 is long gone and spent. The whole reason for the credit is the airlines did not have the cash to refund everyone. Its like a run on the bank.

From an accounting point of view the credits and things like frequent flyer miles are a liability on the books and get drawn down as people fly, but for the actual cash management, the previously received money is gone.
I fly your boxes
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:04 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Where did your "approx 20%" come from?

This is the number they gave last week:
"About 12% of our new tickets are using credits accumulated largely during the pandemic"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/442013 ... transcript


It sounded like 20% to me on the call. Those SeekingAlpha transcripts are a great resource, but are mostly auto-generated and thus notorious for errors.

Isn't it the case though that airlines can't count any money until they carry those passengers.... i.e. that you can't run a Ponzi scheme airline that pays for current operations of off constantly increasing forward bookings, that is, that the airline actually has to carry the passenger before they're able to credit the money earned against their books by accounting rules?
I thought I heard that on here somewhere a few years ago in the midst of discussions about Norwegian Air Shuttles' massive expansions.


There are two things at play here. You are talking about revenue recognition and you are correct that revenue is recognized as the travel takes place. However, there is also a cash flow component which is probably more important to the airlines right now and using these credits does not put additional cash in the bank for them.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:33 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
There are two things at play here. You are talking about revenue recognition and you are correct that revenue is recognized as the travel takes place. However, there is also a cash flow component which is probably more important to the airlines right now and using these credits does not put additional cash in the bank for them.


Midwestindy wrote:
You are talking about revenue vs. cash flow, you can't recognize revenue until passenger is flown, but cash comes in before that.


Ok thanks for clarifying!
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x1234
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:48 pm

We're vaccinated and we have family in China. Is UA still running flights to PVG via ICN out of SFO?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:15 pm

x1234 wrote:
We're vaccinated and we have family in China. Is UA still running flights to PVG via ICN out of SFO?


Yes.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
adamblang wrote:
It's not that hard. You log into your account and click the button.

Image


Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.


I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.

Point taken.

I swear at one point I was offered a button to convert a future flight credit to a travel certificate. Which I did because travel certificate is a lot more flexible (as long as your intended itinerary is on United or United Express).

But I can't find that button in My Account anymore and can't find reference to it on the travel credits page on united.com. All I can find is this Reddit thread talking about converting a year ago.

Travel certificates are a lot easier to use than future flight credits – certificates behaving like a gift card on the payment page.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:13 pm

adamblang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.


I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.

Point taken.

I swear at one point I was offered a button to convert a future flight credit to a travel certificate. Which I did because travel certificate is a lot more flexible (as long as your intended itinerary is on United or United Express).

But I can't find that button in My Account anymore and can't find reference to it on the travel credits page on united.com. All I can find is this Reddit thread talking about converting a year ago.

Travel certificates are a lot easier to use than future flight credits – certificates behaving like a gift card on the payment page.


Agree that the FFC is fairly restrictive. It does affect things like having my wife on same booking for upgrade purposes/handling rebookings/etc
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:56 pm

adamblang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.


I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.

Point taken.

I swear at one point I was offered a button to convert a future flight credit to a travel certificate. Which I did because travel certificate is a lot more flexible (as long as your intended itinerary is on United or United Express).

But I can't find that button in My Account anymore and can't find reference to it on the travel credits page on united.com. All I can find is this Reddit thread talking about converting a year ago.

Travel certificates are a lot easier to use than future flight credits – certificates behaving like a gift card on the payment page.


United sort of split the difference between a future flight credit and ETC with the April update, making the FFC a little easier to use/manage but not as flexible as a pure ETC.

ETC is closer to cash, with some restrictions, and most importantly (to United) less breakage. In other words, ETC get used at a higher rate than FFC. It obviously has an interest in a currency that is more difficult to use/expires more readily.
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:02 am

UAX Update:

CR2:
N943SW entered ROW for paint

CR5:
N510MJ entered revenue service with GoJet as CR5

CR7:
N503MJ ferried STL for CR5 conversion
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:08 am

UAinAUS wrote:
UAX Update:

CR2:
N943SW entered ROW for paint

CR5:
N510MJ entered revenue service with GoJet as CR5

CR7:
N503MJ ferried STL for CR5 conversion



How long are those CRJ700 to CRJ550 conversions taking?
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:17 am

adamblang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

Works great for one person. Now do a trip that your family had to cancel but now there is one more person traveling. Just because it works for you doesn’t it mean it’s working well for everyone.


I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.

Point taken.

I swear at one point I was offered a button to convert a future flight credit to a travel certificate. Which I did because travel certificate is a lot more flexible (as long as your intended itinerary is on United or United Express).

But I can't find that button in My Account anymore and can't find reference to it on the travel credits page on united.com. All I can find is this Reddit thread talking about converting a year ago.

Travel certificates are a lot easier to use than future flight credits – certificates behaving like a gift card on the payment page.


I believe UA will consolidate all of them into one if you call. I didn't do it as I didn't have too many to keep track of, though I know people have done it. UA was a little wonky in how they were handling it early on in the pandemic (I got refunds for some, then ETCs, but some wouldn't show up in my account, and I got a duplicate ETC and FFC for one flight), but I think they've made it pretty easy since then.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:27 am

intotheair wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I agree. I had 5 (1 per person) separate ones that were split into 10 (1 for each way). I had to call get the names changed for them and transfer into a voucher instead. Not easy.

Point taken.

I swear at one point I was offered a button to convert a future flight credit to a travel certificate. Which I did because travel certificate is a lot more flexible (as long as your intended itinerary is on United or United Express).

But I can't find that button in My Account anymore and can't find reference to it on the travel credits page on united.com. All I can find is this Reddit thread talking about converting a year ago.

Travel certificates are a lot easier to use than future flight credits – certificates behaving like a gift card on the payment page.


I believe UA will consolidate all of them into one if you call. I didn't do it as I didn't have too many to keep track of, though I know people have done it. UA was a little wonky in how they were handling it early on in the pandemic (I got refunds for some, then ETCs, but some wouldn't show up in my account, and I got a duplicate ETC and FFC for one flight), but I think they've made it pretty easy since then.


That’s a bummer. 2MM Plat and I called and the agent wouldn’t consider that solution. Hoping I have one more family trip before next March to use it.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:24 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
That’s a bummer. 2MM Plat and I called and the agent wouldn’t consider that solution. Hoping I have one more family trip before next March to use it.


Did you HUCA? I've definitely heard it can be done. I didn't try, but I instead just built a spreadsheet to keep track of all my credits as best as I could. I found AS to be a little more confusing, and AC held my money hostage until they finally got a bailout from the Canadian government.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 7M9 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90 ——— AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN

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