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jayunited
Posts: 3572
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:48 pm

TrafficCop wrote:
Ok need some clarification on Max8/9 total aircraft. Now coming from an old memory please bear with me.

Original order for Max9 was 61.
Original order for Max10 was 100.

Now for months there was debate about the Max8's. It was posted UA showing 25 Max8 coming but no official announcement. We even had nose numbers thanks to a poster.
Then back in March there was a Max8 order for 25. Was this for the ghost planes or a separate order meaning now a total of 50 Max8?

Now today.
50 Max8
150 Max10.

My confusion is with the total numbers. Wiki shows UA with 90 Max8 and 79 Max9. I know its Wiki but still...
Another site from great poster here has UA with 67 Max8 and 63 Max9.

These just aren't adding up. If anyone has links to change in Max9 order great. But I'm stuck on the 61.
The Max8 should be either 75 or 100.

Thank goodness the Airbus order is simple. 70 321Neo and 50 XLR. 45 350-900.(Please don't start debate about whether they are coming or not). This is strictly about what is ordered.
The Boeing WB order remains just the final 787-10 from original 14 and the 7 top off order announced Feb 2020.

Thanks to all.


The original MAX order was for Max 9s only but back in 2017 at the Paris Air Show that order was amended United reduce the number Max 9 by 100 frames in favor of the MAX 10.
This is the order how I see it, and I think I've got just about everything.

61 MAX 9s (30 of which have already been delivered)
100 MAX 10s (added in 2017 as a result of the amended order at Paris Air Show)
25 MAX 8s (order but never officially announced, 1 frame already delivered)
25 MAX 8s (order in March of this year)
50 MAX 8s (ordered yesterday)
150 MAX 10s (ordered yesterday)
50 A321XLRs ( ordered December 2019)
70 A321NEOs (ordered yesterday)
1 78X (part of the original order for 20 which long story short change several times since 2013 when the order was placed and ultimately amended down to 14 frames)
7 78Xs (ordered January/February of 2020 pre-pandemic which United confirmed yesterday at the investors event)

Excluding the aircraft already delivered (30 MAX 9s and 1 MAX 8) and the A359 order ( I don't want to go down that road again) United has 508 aircraft on order.

Some of the 508 aircraft will be use to replace older models in our fleet and part of this total order will be used for growth.

But if I had to guess I would say United will begin retiring/replacing the A320s, the 739 nonERS, and some of the oldest 738NGs.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:40 pm

91 MAX 9s up against all those other nice round numbers is going to drive me nuts. :lol:
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:22 pm

jayunited wrote:
TrafficCop wrote:
Ok need some clarification on Max8/9 total aircraft. Now coming from an old memory please bear with me.

Original order for Max9 was 61.
Original order for Max10 was 100.

Now for months there was debate about the Max8's. It was posted UA showing 25 Max8 coming but no official announcement. We even had nose numbers thanks to a poster.
Then back in March there was a Max8 order for 25. Was this for the ghost planes or a separate order meaning now a total of 50 Max8?

Now today.
50 Max8
150 Max10.

My confusion is with the total numbers. Wiki shows UA with 90 Max8 and 79 Max9. I know its Wiki but still...
Another site from great poster here has UA with 67 Max8 and 63 Max9.

These just aren't adding up. If anyone has links to change in Max9 order great. But I'm stuck on the 61.
The Max8 should be either 75 or 100.

Thank goodness the Airbus order is simple. 70 321Neo and 50 XLR. 45 350-900.(Please don't start debate about whether they are coming or not). This is strictly about what is ordered.
The Boeing WB order remains just the final 787-10 from original 14 and the 7 top off order announced Feb 2020.

Thanks to all.


The original MAX order was for Max 9s only but back in 2017 at the Paris Air Show that order was amended United reduce the number Max 9 by 100 frames in favor of the MAX 10.
This is the order how I see it, and I think I've got just about everything.

61 MAX 9s (30 of which have already been delivered)
100 MAX 10s (added in 2017 as a result of the amended order at Paris Air Show)
25 MAX 8s (order but never officially announced, 1 frame already delivered)
25 MAX 8s (order in March of this year)
50 MAX 8s (ordered yesterday)
150 MAX 10s (ordered yesterday)
50 A321XLRs ( ordered December 2019)
70 A321NEOs (ordered yesterday)
1 78X (part of the original order for 20 which long story short change several times since 2013 when the order was placed and ultimately amended down to 14 frames)
7 78Xs (ordered January/February of 2020 pre-pandemic which United confirmed yesterday at the investors event)

Excluding the aircraft already delivered (30 MAX 9s and 1 MAX 8) and the A359 order ( I don't want to go down that road again) United has 508 aircraft on order.

Some of the 508 aircraft will be use to replace older models in our fleet and part of this total order will be used for growth.

But if I had to guess I would say United will begin retiring/replacing the A320s, the 739 nonERS, and some of the oldest 738NGs.


Thx. Those are same numbers I had but the other sites just have varying MAX8/9 numbers. Oh well either a bunch of planes coming.
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 93
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:23 pm

adamblang wrote:
91 MAX 9s up against all those other nice round numbers is going to drive me nuts. :lol:


Its 61!!!! For now.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:52 pm

jayunited wrote:
TrafficCop wrote:
Ok need some clarification on Max8/9 total aircraft. Now coming from an old memory please bear with me.

Original order for Max9 was 61.
Original order for Max10 was 100.

Now for months there was debate about the Max8's. It was posted UA showing 25 Max8 coming but no official announcement. We even had nose numbers thanks to a poster.
Then back in March there was a Max8 order for 25. Was this for the ghost planes or a separate order meaning now a total of 50 Max8?

Now today.
50 Max8
150 Max10.

My confusion is with the total numbers. Wiki shows UA with 90 Max8 and 79 Max9. I know its Wiki but still...
Another site from great poster here has UA with 67 Max8 and 63 Max9.

These just aren't adding up. If anyone has links to change in Max9 order great. But I'm stuck on the 61.
The Max8 should be either 75 or 100.

Thank goodness the Airbus order is simple. 70 321Neo and 50 XLR. 45 350-900.(Please don't start debate about whether they are coming or not). This is strictly about what is ordered.
The Boeing WB order remains just the final 787-10 from original 14 and the 7 top off order announced Feb 2020.

Thanks to all.


The original MAX order was for Max 9s only but back in 2017 at the Paris Air Show that order was amended United reduce the number Max 9 by 100 frames in favor of the MAX 10.
This is the order how I see it, and I think I've got just about everything.

61 MAX 9s (30 of which have already been delivered)
100 MAX 10s (added in 2017 as a result of the amended order at Paris Air Show)
25 MAX 8s (order but never officially announced, 1 frame already delivered)
25 MAX 8s (order in March of this year)
50 MAX 8s (ordered yesterday)
150 MAX 10s (ordered yesterday)
50 A321XLRs ( ordered December 2019)
70 A321NEOs (ordered yesterday)
1 78X (part of the original order for 20 which long story short change several times since 2013 when the order was placed and ultimately amended down to 14 frames)
7 78Xs (ordered January/February of 2020 pre-pandemic which United confirmed yesterday at the investors event)

Excluding the aircraft already delivered (30 MAX 9s and 1 MAX 8) and the A359 order ( I don't want to go down that road again) United has 508 aircraft on order.

Some of the 508 aircraft will be use to replace older models in our fleet and part of this total order will be used for growth.

But if I had to guess I would say United will begin retiring/replacing the A320s, the 739 nonERS, and some of the oldest 738NGs.



Are they still planing on bringing the used southwest 737 into service?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3572
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:01 pm

Golfmikey wrote:
Are they still planing on bringing the used southwest 737 into service?


As far as I know the used Southwest 73Gs will still join the fleet. My understanding is the entire current A319 and 73G fleet will remain. There are some used Airbus's with different engines United purchased some years ago those will no longer join the fleet.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:55 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:49 pm

jayunited wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
Are they still planing on bringing the used southwest 737 into service?


As far as I know the used Southwest 73Gs will still join the fleet. My understanding is the entire current A319 and 73G fleet will remain. There are some used Airbus's with different engines United purchased some years ago those will no longer join the fleet.



Seems like it will be a lot cheaper to fly those 737-700 and A319’s around than purchasing brand new A220s.
 
DEN1895
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:42 am

jayunited wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
Are they still planing on bringing the used southwest 737 into service?


As far as I know the used Southwest 73Gs will still join the fleet. My understanding is the entire current A319 and 73G fleet will remain. There are some used Airbus's with different engines United purchased some years ago those will no longer join the fleet.


Do you know if they have already started with the cabin retrofits on the SW aircraft or would it be assumed that they would receive the new interior?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:15 am

Hoping UA increases SFO schedules asap and brings back more destinations soon. Flights are full yet SFO is still operating below 50% of 2019 levels. Doug Yakel says that they are pretty much capped in terms of demand due to airlines' reduced schedules - of course this is a dog whistle at United, since they have cut the most.
https://youtu.be/XehqrvGeqqI?t=114
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 227
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:08 am

One the used aircraft front here's what I show as open/ not in-service.

The following block of aircraft may/may not enter service and may be parted out. If someone has info that can help confirm it would be much appreciated.
--4 former Shaheen A319s. All have IAE engines and would make sense to put into service. Tail numbers (N4866U, N5867U, N4868U, N4869U)
--1 former Bulgarian Eagle A319. IAE engines. Tail number N870UB
--2 former China Southern A319s. IAE engines. These aircraft may/may not have gone through induction and modification work in XMN. Both have been parked at GYR for quite a while now. Tail numbers (N883UA and N884UA)

--20 easy Jet A319s with CFM engines that are NOT expected to join the fleet. The 2020 10-K filing alluded to these being sold to another carrier that has CFM powered A319s are in service.

-21 Southwest 73Gs that are expected to enter service after induction work which has not been scheduled as part of the COVID cash management plan
 
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Acey559
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:51 am

sfojvjets wrote:
Hoping UA increases SFO schedules asap and brings back more destinations soon. Flights are full yet SFO is still operating below 50% of 2019 levels. Doug Yakel says that they are pretty much capped in terms of demand due to airlines' reduced schedules - of course this is a dog whistle at United, since they have cut the most.
https://youtu.be/XehqrvGeqqI?t=114


As far as I know, SFO will start to ramp up when the runway work is completed. No sense in adding tons of flights if those flights cause massive rolling delays every day. Soon!
 
IFlyOff
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:09 am

Acey559 wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
Hoping UA increases SFO schedules asap and brings back more destinations soon. Flights are full yet SFO is still operating below 50% of 2019 levels. Doug Yakel says that they are pretty much capped in terms of demand due to airlines' reduced schedules - of course this is a dog whistle at United, since they have cut the most.
https://youtu.be/XehqrvGeqqI?t=114


As far as I know, SFO will start to ramp up when the runway work is completed. No sense in adding tons of flights if those flights cause massive rolling delays every day. Soon!

SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:16 am

IFlyOff wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
Hoping UA increases SFO schedules asap and brings back more destinations soon. Flights are full yet SFO is still operating below 50% of 2019 levels. Doug Yakel says that they are pretty much capped in terms of demand due to airlines' reduced schedules - of course this is a dog whistle at United, since they have cut the most.
https://youtu.be/XehqrvGeqqI?t=114


As far as I know, SFO will start to ramp up when the runway work is completed. No sense in adding tons of flights if those flights cause massive rolling delays every day. Soon!


Sounds good. Unfortunately runway work is only set to finish after the start of September so that doesn't bode well for the tail end of this summer season. Thanks for the update!

Acey559 wrote:
SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.


Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if it took a decade for US-Asia Pacific numbers to recover to 2019 levels. Politics don't help either...
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:37 am

Saw this at Flickr, not sure if this has been highlighted here.

United Airlines's latest induction for used A319-132 from China Southern Airlines B-6020 caught transitting at ANC on 28 June 2021 before heading to SFO.

Age: 18 years
First delivery to CZ: September 2003.
Delivery on contract to UA: May 2020.
Delivery flight: 27-28 June 2021.

Image
by munidave, on Flickr
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:45 am

Rebuilding of SFO will be largely driven by corporate client demand per Ankit Gupta VP domestic network planning when asked at townhall.

With so many Bay Area employers having so enthusiastically adopted work from home model combined with all the Asia-Pacific border closures (and China politics), SFO might be the last hub that recover to pre-pandemic levels.
Last edited by LAXintl on Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:50 am

LAXintl wrote:
Rebuilding of SFO will be largely driven by corporate client demand per Ankit Gupta VP domestic network planning when asked at townhall.

With so many Bay Area employers having so enthusiastically adopted work from home model combined with all the Asia-Pacific border closures, SFO might be the last hub that recover to pre-pandemic levels.


I do think that the nature of corporate travel will change. Execs will resume a healthy level of travel at some point. For the tech co’s, instead of a lot of HQ-centric stuff you’ll see a lot more quarterly offsites.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:42 am

sfojvjets wrote:
IFlyOff wrote:
sfojvjets wrote:
Hoping UA increases SFO schedules asap and brings back more destinations soon. Flights are full yet SFO is still operating below 50% of 2019 levels. Doug Yakel says that they are pretty much capped in terms of demand due to airlines' reduced schedules - of course this is a dog whistle at United, since they have cut the most.
https://youtu.be/XehqrvGeqqI?t=114


As far as I know, SFO will start to ramp up when the runway work is completed. No sense in adding tons of flights if those flights cause massive rolling delays every day. Soon!


Sounds good. Unfortunately runway work is only set to finish after the start of September so that doesn't bode well for the tail end of this summer season. Thanks for the update!

Acey559 wrote:
SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.


Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised if it took a decade for US-Asia Pacific numbers to recover to 2019 levels. Politics don't help either...


How are the Europe-SFO flights doing? I know they are operating FRA and have resumed subdaily MUC and LHR (both of which will go daily in July). They have also reloaded AMS for NS22. Do you think CDG, ZRH, and the new DUB flights will come back or do they rely on the TPAC stuff?
 
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UPlog
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:43 am

Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)
I fly your boxes
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:18 am

rjbesikof wrote:
How are the Europe-SFO flights doing? I know they are operating FRA and have resumed subdaily MUC and LHR (both of which will go daily in July). They have also reloaded AMS for NS22. Do you think CDG, ZRH, and the new DUB flights will come back or do they rely on the TPAC stuff?

I have no numbers. I'm sure someone else here does and can answer this better. But based off what I know:

FRA/MUC/TLV - great, FRA upgauged from 789 to 77w
DEL - decent, seems that the worst has passed and UA is probably on-track to make the August BLR launch demand-wise (yes I am aware DEL is not in Europe, LOL, but as we know the East Asian markets are very different than the Indian market)
LHR - not great at all, maybe half full on average

ZRH and CDG will definitely come back. DUB should be interesting. Selfishly, I do not want UA to launch it and knock Aer Lingus off one of their historically most profitable routes. But if UA is assured they will have the tech demand to fill the pointy end of the 787-8 (as they were pre-pandemic), I'm sure they will go ahead with it :(
 
amtravels
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:23 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
One the used aircraft front here's what I show as open/ not in-service.

--20 easy Jet A319s with CFM engines that are NOT expected to join the fleet. The 2020 10-K filing alluded to these being sold to another carrier that has CFM powered A319s are in service.


Why would UA buy these if they’re a different engine than their existing A319 engines? 20 is a lot of planes for parts and now they might just turn around and resell them? I don’t get the logic there.
 
portola2727
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:27 am

UPlog wrote:
Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)

Sure hope so. Would love to see a UAL International expansion out of LAX, hopefully to FRA/TLV/HKG/ICN. But tbh, I don't see any major United expansion out of LAX until T9 is built. Maybe the MSC could provide some expansion room cause UA does do some operations out of TBIT.
 
sfojvjets
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:01 am

portola2727 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)

Sure hope so. Would love to see a UAL International expansion out of LAX, hopefully to FRA/TLV/HKG/ICN. But tbh, I don't see any major United expansion out of LAX until T9 is built. Maybe the MSC could provide some expansion room cause UA does do some operations out of TBIT.

It's just a longer recovery period that's needed for SFO, so there's been a quicker pace of re-adding flights at LAX. I don't see any "pivoting" happening. What is more likely though is a bigger domestic push out of LAX. If there's any kind of expansion happening, it'll be mostly stateside with maybe some short/medium-haul latam routes added.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:18 am

amtravels wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
One the used aircraft front here's what I show as open/ not in-service.

--20 easy Jet A319s with CFM engines that are NOT expected to join the fleet. The 2020 10-K filing alluded to these being sold to another carrier that has CFM powered A319s are in service.


Why would UA buy these if they’re a different engine than their existing A319 engines? 20 is a lot of planes for parts and now they might just turn around and resell them? I don’t get the logic there.


There wasn’t a pandemic going on when they were signed for and UA needed short-term fleet expansion. The cost of an engine subfleet was not seen as a big deal vs. the potential benefits of the added capacity.

Then things changed.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:29 pm

UPlog wrote:
Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)


The numbers just came out internally as this will probably be the last day most people who are not directly tied into the daily operation will be in the office until next Tuesday or even Wednesday.

UA's O&D pax numbers at SFO increase in June to 45% of our pre-COVID levels, the largest one month increase for UA at SFO since the pandemic. Keep in mind the Bay Area was under a severe lockdown throughout much of this pandemic and really didn't lift those restrictions until June 15th or so, so a 14% increase in O&D passengers is good.
UA's O&D pax numbers at LAX increase in June to 58% of our pre-COVID levels, just a 4% increase over May.

Comparing LAX to SFO even though they are in the same state isn't really a fair comparison because the lockdown in the Bay Area was much more severe than it was Los Angeles/County. The Bay Area like New York City has just begun to come out of their COVID hibernation, no way United pivots toward LAX.

IFlyOff wrote:
SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.


Fully rebound yes that will probably be tied to Oceania and business travel but a hublet or line station not even close.

During the month of July United will operate between 170-197 (varies depending on the day of the week with Tuesdays still being the slowest day) daily departures out of SFO. With that many flights SFO for sure isn't a hublet or a large line station. United isn't about to provide an opening at SFO to AS/AA, WN, or DL the hub is too important to United. I think do to runway construction United might hold SFO in the 170-197 range until construction is complete at which time SFO's daily departures may increase to some where between 210-230 for the remainder of this year.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:57 pm

SFO may be tricky because tech is the one industry that is embracing remote working more favorably than any other. That may make full recovery harder there than other hubs.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:19 pm

jayunited wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)


The numbers just came out internally as this will probably be the last day most people who are not directly tied into the daily operation will be in the office until next Tuesday or even Wednesday.

UA's O&D pax numbers at SFO increase in June to 45% of our pre-COVID levels, the largest one month increase for UA at SFO since the pandemic. Keep in mind the Bay Area was under a severe lockdown throughout much of this pandemic and really didn't lift those restrictions until June 15th or so, so a 14% increase in O&D passengers is good.
UA's O&D pax numbers at LAX increase in June to 58% of our pre-COVID levels, just a 4% increase over May.

Comparing LAX to SFO even though they are in the same state isn't really a fair comparison because the lockdown in the Bay Area was much more severe than it was Los Angeles/County. The Bay Area like New York City has just begun to come out of their COVID hibernation, no way United pivots toward LAX.

IFlyOff wrote:
SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.


Fully rebound yes that will probably be tied to Oceania and business travel but a hublet or line station not even close.

During the month of July United will operate between 170-197 (varies depending on the day of the week with Tuesdays still being the slowest day) daily departures out of SFO. With that many flights SFO for sure isn't a hublet or a large line station. United isn't about to provide an opening at SFO to AS/AA, WN, or DL the hub is too important to United. I think do to runway construction United might hold SFO in the 170-197 range until construction is complete at which time SFO's daily departures may increase to some where between 210-230 for the remainder of this year.


Do you have these stats for the other hubs?
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:57 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Why would UA buy these if they’re a different engine than their existing A319 engines? 20 is a lot of planes for parts and now they might just turn around and resell them? I don’t get the logic there.


There wasn’t a pandemic going on when they were signed for and UA needed short-term fleet expansion. The cost of an engine subfleet was not seen as a big deal vs. the potential benefits of the added capacity.

Then things changed.

Exactly.

Plus, the CFM56 motors on those A319s were not a totally new engine type for UAL to support.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:33 pm

airplanedriver6 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
amtravels wrote:
Why would UA buy these if they’re a different engine than their existing A319 engines? 20 is a lot of planes for parts and now they might just turn around and resell them? I don’t get the logic there.


There wasn’t a pandemic going on when they were signed for and UA needed short-term fleet expansion. The cost of an engine subfleet was not seen as a big deal vs. the potential benefits of the added capacity.

Then things changed.

Exactly.

Plus, the CFM56 motors on those A319s were not a totally new engine type for UAL to support.


There's not a great deal of commonality between the CFM56-5 (A32X) and CFM56-7 (737NG). UA would have treated it a separate program. A 20-frame subfleet with a different engine is workable, but not ideal, and the initial plan was to grow the fleet considerably beyond the first tranche of 20 A319 frames from EasyJet. The pandemic caused UA to rethink that strategy, and ultimately the decision was made to abandon a CFM-powered Airbus subfleet. Eventually those 20 will be sold or parted out.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:20 pm

jayunited wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Wonder if UA will pivot more towards LAX since it has recovered so much faster than Bay Area?

(SFO in May was 31% of 2019 pax levels, LAX 54%)


The numbers just came out internally as this will probably be the last day most people who are not directly tied into the daily operation will be in the office until next Tuesday or even Wednesday.

UA's O&D pax numbers at SFO increase in June to 45% of our pre-COVID levels, the largest one month increase for UA at SFO since the pandemic. Keep in mind the Bay Area was under a severe lockdown throughout much of this pandemic and really didn't lift those restrictions until June 15th or so, so a 14% increase in O&D passengers is good.
UA's O&D pax numbers at LAX increase in June to 58% of our pre-COVID levels, just a 4% increase over May.

Comparing LAX to SFO even though they are in the same state isn't really a fair comparison because the lockdown in the Bay Area was much more severe than it was Los Angeles/County. The Bay Area like New York City has just begun to come out of their COVID hibernation, no way United pivots toward LAX.

IFlyOff wrote:
SFO as a hub for United will not fully rebound until Asia and Oceania recover and rebound from COVID. Until then it will be a hublet and large line station for United. Someday it will again be an over-scheduled massive money maker for United. But not in the next year.


Fully rebound yes that will probably be tied to Oceania and business travel but a hublet or line station not even close.

During the month of July United will operate between 170-197 (varies depending on the day of the week with Tuesdays still being the slowest day) daily departures out of SFO. With that many flights SFO for sure isn't a hublet or a large line station. United isn't about to provide an opening at SFO to AS/AA, WN, or DL the hub is too important to United. I think do to runway construction United might hold SFO in the 170-197 range until construction is complete at which time SFO's daily departures may increase to some where between 210-230 for the remainder of this year.


Thanks for the insight.

One simple question: how is morale?
 
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janders
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:31 pm

Please continue in the Q3 thread >>>

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1462333
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