United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

VCVSpotter · Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:48 pm

United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

mmahpeel · Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:23 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

No nose number assigned yet - as there were at least 3 of the PW777s camped out in HNL the past several weeks, it is likely one of them.

x1234 · Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:30 pm

I wonder about UA's flying to Tokyo Haneda (HND). Which flights are going to operate to Haneda instead of Narita? I noticed the LAX, EWR, IAD and SFO flights are to NRT and the SFO and the ORD flight is to HND. I also see ANA taking over UA's capacity. Is UA still operating to NRT due to beyond NRT connections with ANA and not chasing the O&D market?

jayunited · Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:45 pm

mmahpeel wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

No nose number assigned yet - as there were at least 3 of the PW777s camped out in HNL the past several weeks, it is likely one of them.

There's actually 5 PW 777s in HNL and 1 in GUM. Here are the nose numbers 2514, 2515, 2480, 2481, and 2798 are all in HNL, while 2510 is in GUM.

The aircraft in HNL they are looking to move is nose number 2798, this maintenance ferry may or may not happen tomorrow still a few issues to be worked out which is why externally you're not seeing an aircraft assigned.

LAXintl · Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:50 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

Fleet will be moved to ROW per internal notice.

jayunited · Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:01 pm

x1234 wrote:
I wonder about UA's flying to Tokyo Haneda (HND). Which flights are going to operate to Haneda instead of Narita? I noticed the LAX, EWR, IAD and SFO flights are to NRT and the SFO and the ORD flight is to HND. I also see ANA taking over UA's capacity. Is UA still operating to NRT due to beyond NRT connections with ANA and not chasing the O&D market?

As far as Japan a lot of the decisions are being driven by cargo demand. For instance NRT has become a huge cargo transfer station for UA. The reason UA decided to resume LAX-NRT instead of launching LAX-HND is because we can sell more cargo to NRT and connect it onward on a UA flight to PVG, PEK, CTU, HKG, United can also offer cargo customers access to even more cargo destinations out of NRT on ANA through our joint cargo venture with ANA. Once the market returns United will utilize all of their HND slots but at this time with the Japanese government restricting foreign carriers to 100 passenger on arriving flights NRT makes much more sense to go through NRT because of the volume of cargo we are moving through that station.

VCVSpotter · Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:17 pm

jayunited wrote:
mmahpeel wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

No nose number assigned yet - as there were at least 3 of the PW777s camped out in HNL the past several weeks, it is likely one of them.

There's actually 5 PW 777s in HNL and 1 in GUM. Here are the nose numbers 2514, 2515, 2480, 2481, and 2798 are all in HNL, while 2510 is in GUM.

The aircraft in HNL they are looking to move is nose number 2798, this maintenance ferry may or may not happen tomorrow still a few issues to be worked out which is why externally you're not seeing an aircraft assigned.

Knew I could count on someone in this thread, thank you jayunited!

LAXintl wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
United 777-200ER (reg unknown) filed HNL-VCV 9AM - 5:17PM as UA2714 tomorrow (April 9). My bet is that this is one of the PW engined 772s headed to VCV for storage....anyone have more details?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2714

Fleet will be moved to ROW per internal notice.

Yup (I am a regular visitor to this thread, thx to everyone who contributes some really great info!), just seems kinda strange that a second PW 772 frame (the first being N791UA) will be stored at VCV, and this time more 'intentionally' since N791UA was at VCV for paint and by happenstance the PW grounding started. I initially believed that UA2714 was a ferry for paint, but with UA 763 N641UA at VCV for only 6 days and UA 737 N15712 for only 2 days, there wouldn't have been an open paint hangar for UA2714. They definitely could still fly 791UA and 798UA (ship # 2798) to ROW, but just weird that they'd want an intermediate stop. Just my 2 cents.

jayunited · Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:12 am

Here are a few updates from a call we had today covering this summer's outlook and what United is expecting to happen this upcoming fall/winter season.

All hubs will see a increase in total number of banks, some hubs will see an increase of just one additional bank while others this coming summer will see their banks increase by 3 or 4 additional banks.

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

LAX: Is performing quite well for UA better than expected. UA will continue to focus LAX on O&D traffic and leisure traffic. (quick side bar: it is one of the reasons UA in April is operating LAX-MCO 12x weekly while SFO-MCO only operates 5x weekly). Focusing LAX on leisure and O&D traffic is paying off for UA, UA sees no reason to change their focus at LAX.

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

EWR: is suffering like SFO from the lack of business and international long haul traffic, but unlike SFO leisure traffic and short haul international traffic is up. Short term UA will continue to focus EWR on leisure destinations like Florida, Arizona, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico. In the short term UA will limit the total number of departures at EWR do to runway construction. B6 for now still poses no real danger to UA at EWR, UA remains the largest carrier by a long shot at EWR. However UA does have a long term plans for EWR and NYC (which includes JFK) although no details were given which is to be expected, UA is not going to reveal their plans this early we all are just going to have to wait and see.

ORD: Traffic is finally increasing. In June ORD will see the number of banks increase from 5 banks to 9 banks. An increase in flights and banks will give customers more options and shortening connection times.

IAH: Continues to increasing demand, in June will go from 6 banks to 8 banks daily (keep in mind total number of banks is not a reflection of total number of flights, I think IAH will still out pace ORD in total number of flights during the summer of 2021). Increasing bank/flights will shortening customer connection times.

DEN: Continues to be the leader in demand. In June DEN will go from 6 to 9 banks, UA will increase total number of daily flights combined with more banks it will shorten customers connection times.

P2P Routes Florida: After a rough start last November those flights really came to life and paid off starting in mid-late January. UA is looking at resuming the routes fall 2021 hopefully with better result out of the gate.

P2P Routes Southeast Summer: No specific updates were given although UA does expect these routes to do well. I think this is more check back in the fall for results.

MCO: United has requested additional gates and space at MCO. United is looking to increase flights to MCO in the near future from not only our hubs but also add flights to MCO from a few of our larger line stations.

Florida: The pandemic has shown United the benefits of having a robust schedule to Florida. Although UA has no plans on establishing a hub in Florida or anywhere in the Southeast United will maintain and grow its presence in Florida even during the recovery.

Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

So when you hear Kirby talk about United is planning for the future this is the future United is trying to figure out how to navigate now before 2022 or 2023 arrives. Clearly United has a lot of work to do to figure how what our network will look like on the other side of this pandemic.

50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

STT757 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:02 am

Glad they’re growing in Orlando, it’s a different market then when they tried the MCO hub the first time in 1992.

Nicknuzzii · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:20 am

Thank you for sharing that info! I found it interesting how they mentioned banks so much. My only issue with that is EWR isn’t really banked. It seems like they have a lot of excuses for not growing here but none admit B6. Do we see them getting to EWR 250 this summer?

jayunited · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:59 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Thank you for sharing that info! I found it interesting how they mentioned banks so much. My only issue with that is EWR isn’t really banked. It seems like they have a lot of excuses for not growing here but none admit B6. Do we see them getting to EWR 250 this summer?

You keep saying United hasn't grown EWR which isn't true at all. Last year April United was operating 19 daily passenger flights (UA and UAX) out of EWR. April of 2021 United operates 175 daily passenger (UA and UAX) departures out of EWR.

We (and I say we because I'm guilty of this as well) we keep looking for United to add flights to the usual (business) destinations out of hubs like EWR and ORD, when United has been busy adding flights to leisure destinations. We all have to stop when a schedule comes out looking at the "usual" destinations and when we don't see anything immediately jump to the conclusion UA hasn't done anything. If we go back to March UA at EWR was only operating around 135 daily departures, in April that number increases to 175 that 40 additional flights. It may not seem like a lot but those 40 flights represent growth at EWR but the growth has been limited to leisure destinations.

Will EWR hit 250 daily departures this summer I don't know all I know is UA is stated we are limiting flights at EWR do to runway construction. And UA will continue to focus on leisure destinations out of EWR which is where we are seeing growth.

Nicknuzzii · Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:09 am

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Thank you for sharing that info! I found it interesting how they mentioned banks so much. My only issue with that is EWR isn’t really banked. It seems like they have a lot of excuses for not growing here but none admit B6. Do we see them getting to EWR 250 this summer?

You keep saying United hasn't grown EWR which isn't true at all. Last year April United was operating 19 daily passenger flights (UA and UAX) out of EWR. April of 2021 United operates 175 daily passenger (UA and UAX) departures out of EWR.

We (and I say we because I'm guilty of this as well) we keep looking for United to add flights to the usual (business) destinations out of hubs like EWR and ORD, when United has been busy adding flights to leisure destinations. We all have to stop when a schedule comes out looking at the "usual" destinations and when we don't see anything immediately jump to the conclusion UA hasn't done anything. If we go back to March UA at EWR was only operating around 135 daily departures, in April that number increases to 175 that 40 additional flights. It may not seem like a lot but those 40 flights represent growth at EWR but the growth has been limited to leisure destinations.

Will EWR hit 250 daily departures this summer I don't know all I know is UA is stated we are limiting flights at EWR do to runway construction. And UA will continue to focus on leisure destinations out of EWR which is where we are seeing growth.

While UA has grown, it hasn’t been much and I think we’re still around the size of the December schedule. Markets like BNA/MSY/LAX/HNL/MCO are demanding more seats and have the prices that reflect this.

As for the MCO stuff you posted, what are UA’s larger stations? MCO-SJU would do great.

GmoneyCO · Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:33 am

A319:
N3304U - ex-easyJet A319. UA has taken delivery of the aircraft on paper. Delivery flights from QLA to the US have not been scheduled yet.
N4306U - ex-easyJet A319. UA has taken delivery of the aircraft on paper. Delivery flights from QLA to the US have not been scheduled yet.

Note: None of the ex-easyJet aircraft are currently expected to enter revenue service. UA has stated that they will be sold but some ambiguity remains if it is a sale/lease-back setup or if the aircraft will be sold to another carrier.

789:
N19986 - Confirmed entry into SFO for induction on 7-Apr/2707
N28987 - Scheduled entry into XMN for Polaris seat installation on 10-Apr/2702

ChaseP · Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:58 am

Aircraft Movement:
N798UA (Boeing 777-200ER) scheduled to ferry from HNL to VCV (UA2714/09) for either storage or paint.
N1914U (Airbus 320) scheduled to ferry from GYR to TUP (UA2703/09) for scrap. Aircraft is former Vueling and never flew for United.

SFOtoORD · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:04 am

jayunited wrote:
SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

Reopening really has no impact on SFO as every county is already in the orange tier with gyms and restaurants open. Covid case rates (per 100k) in CA are some of the lowest in the country and vaccination is going relatively well. I just think many leisure travelers are choosing Tahoe, Palm Springs, wine country, and other parts of SoCal by car. There is a lot more demand to PHX and Hawaii, but i haven’t seen the more typical transcon demand pick up. That is what I think will increase come June.

codc10 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:34 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Thank you for sharing that info! I found it interesting how they mentioned banks so much. My only issue with that is EWR isn’t really banked. It seems like they have a lot of excuses for not growing here but none admit B6. Do we see them getting to EWR 250 this summer?

You keep saying United hasn't grown EWR which isn't true at all. Last year April United was operating 19 daily passenger flights (UA and UAX) out of EWR. April of 2021 United operates 175 daily passenger (UA and UAX) departures out of EWR.

We (and I say we because I'm guilty of this as well) we keep looking for United to add flights to the usual (business) destinations out of hubs like EWR and ORD, when United has been busy adding flights to leisure destinations. We all have to stop when a schedule comes out looking at the "usual" destinations and when we don't see anything immediately jump to the conclusion UA hasn't done anything. If we go back to March UA at EWR was only operating around 135 daily departures, in April that number increases to 175 that 40 additional flights. It may not seem like a lot but those 40 flights represent growth at EWR but the growth has been limited to leisure destinations.

Will EWR hit 250 daily departures this summer I don't know all I know is UA is stated we are limiting flights at EWR do to runway construction. And UA will continue to focus on leisure destinations out of EWR which is where we are seeing growth.

While UA has grown, it hasn’t been much and I think we’re still around the size of the December schedule. Markets like BNA/MSY/LAX/HNL/MCO are demanding more seats and have the prices that reflect this.

As for the MCO stuff you posted, what are UA’s larger stations? MCO-SJU would do great.

UA’s largest domestic nonhub stations (outside of Florida) are BOS, SAN, MSY, SEA, DCA, PHX, PDX, LAS, LGA, AUS, SAT, DFW, etc., no particular order, and probably missing some. All with practically limitless MCO demand...

RyanairGuru · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:40 am

jayunited wrote:
Here are a few updates from a call we had today covering this summer's outlook and what United is expecting to happen this upcoming fall/winter season.

All hubs will see a increase in total number of banks, some hubs will see an increase of just one additional bank while others this coming summer will see their banks increase by 3 or 4 additional banks.

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

LAX: Is performing quite well for UA better than expected. UA will continue to focus LAX on O&D traffic and leisure traffic. (quick side bar: it is one of the reasons UA in April is operating LAX-MCO 12x weekly while SFO-MCO only operates 5x weekly). Focusing LAX on leisure and O&D traffic is paying off for UA, UA sees no reason to change their focus at LAX.

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

EWR: is suffering like SFO from the lack of business and international long haul traffic, but unlike SFO leisure traffic and short haul international traffic is up. Short term UA will continue to focus EWR on leisure destinations like Florida, Arizona, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico. In the short term UA will limit the total number of departures at EWR do to runway construction. B6 for now still poses no real danger to UA at EWR, UA remains the largest carrier by a long shot at EWR. However UA does have a long term plans for EWR and NYC (which includes JFK) although no details were given which is to be expected, UA is not going to reveal their plans this early we all are just going to have to wait and see.

ORD: Traffic is finally increasing. In June ORD will see the number of banks increase from 5 banks to 9 banks. An increase in flights and banks will give customers more options and shortening connection times.

IAH: Continues to increasing demand, in June will go from 6 banks to 8 banks daily (keep in mind total number of banks is not a reflection of total number of flights, I think IAH will still out pace ORD in total number of flights during the summer of 2021). Increasing bank/flights will shortening customer connection times.

DEN: Continues to be the leader in demand. In June DEN will go from 6 to 9 banks, UA will increase total number of daily flights combined with more banks it will shorten customers connection times.

P2P Routes Florida: After a rough start last November those flights really came to life and paid off starting in mid-late January. UA is looking at resuming the routes fall 2021 hopefully with better result out of the gate.

P2P Routes Southeast Summer: No specific updates were given although UA does expect these routes to do well. I think this is more check back in the fall for results.

MCO: United has requested additional gates and space at MCO. United is looking to increase flights to MCO in the near future from not only our hubs but also add flights to MCO from a few of our larger line stations.

Florida: The pandemic has shown United the benefits of having a robust schedule to Florida. Although UA has no plans on establishing a hub in Florida or anywhere in the Southeast United will maintain and grow its presence in Florida even during the recovery.

Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

So when you hear Kirby talk about United is planning for the future this is the future United is trying to figure out how to navigate now before 2022 or 2023 arrives. Clearly United has a lot of work to do to figure how what our network will look like on the other side of this pandemic.

50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

I am very interested, and pleased, by the comments about IAD being fully developed as a major north-south connecting hub. IMHO the lack of a south east hub is somewhat overblown, as with IAD for north-south traffic and IAH for east-west traffic UA can compete in the major traffic flows into the south east. If they properly leverage those two hubs, the ‘hole’ in their network shrinks to only intra-south east traffic.

It shouldn’t be a shock that SFO and EWR are the worse performing hubs. Those two hubs predominantly served (1) high fare O&D local business traffic and (2) as major international gateways. Business traffic and international traffic will take a lot longer to recover. The likes of ORD, IAH, even IAD, were larger domestic hubs than EWR and SFO, despite also having large numbers of international flights, so will inevitably recover faster.

VCVSpotter · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:51 am

ChaseP wrote:
Aircraft Movement:
N798UA (Boeing 777-200ER) scheduled to ferry from HNL to VCV (UA2714/09) for either storage or paint.
N1914U (Airbus 320) scheduled to ferry from GYR to TUP (UA2703/09) for scrap. Aircraft is former Vueling and never flew for United.

N798UA is storage (as covered a few posts up thread). There is currently no paint hangar availability at VCV (both are occupied with other UA aircraft: N641UA and N15712).

sldispatcher · Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:17 am

Great summary report jayunited. You bring so much quality to this thread.

Really happy to see the bank additions as that means demand is there for more seats which is healthy for everyone. Glad to hear that the 550 is getting good feedback and is a standout (which I believe it is).

The upscale leisure traveler can hopefully take up some of the slack of the lost business travel. However, I do believe business travel will roar back once mask mandates are lifted and conventions / meetings can gear back up.

I wonder how will we know when those banks are in place or they just going to use the posted schedule and adjust one month out as has been the norm?

sfojvjets · Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:22 am

I would expect UA to leverage SFO for Hawaiian connections this summer. Other than that, there's not much UA can do... SFO's location is ideal for TPAC, not domestic connections apart from Hawaii. There is a reason IAD/DEN/IAH/ORD are doing "well" right now. O&D demand to Pacific leisure this summer from SFO will be very high I am sure (Hawaii, Tahiti) on top of connecting demand, and India will be a strong point in the otherwise decimated long-haul scene, but that's all it seems UA's presence @ SFO has going for it in the near future. Not much at all, and I sure hope it picks up this summer.

Scarebus34 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:28 am

sldispatcher wrote:
Great summary report jayunited. You bring so much quality to this thread.

Really happy to see the bank additions as that means demand is there for more seats which is healthy for everyone. Glad to hear that the 550 is getting good feedback and is a standout (which I believe it is).

The upscale leisure traveler can hopefully take up some of the slack of the lost business travel. However, I do believe business travel will roar back once mask mandates are lifted and conventions / meetings can gear back up.

I wonder how will we know when those banks are in place or they just going to use the posted schedule and adjust one month out as has been the norm?

Cesars and Wynn were both on CNBC in the past few days saying bookings for conventions is very strong for the second half of this year and into 2022.

FSDan · Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:28 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
MCO-SJU would do great.

I doubt it - that's a VERY competitive market. Checking schedules for a Monday in May, B6 is flying it 6x daily, WN 5x daily, NK 5x daily, and F9 2x daily.

sfojvjets · Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:32 am

FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
MCO-SJU would do great.

I doubt it - that's a VERY competitive market. Checking schedules for a Monday in May, B6 is flying it 6x daily, WN 5x daily, NK 5x daily, and F9 2x daily.

Competitive, not to mention low-yielding! Look at the carriers serving it. There's a reason DL doesn't fly it, despite their strength in the MCO market.

sfojvjets · Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:53 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
jayunited wrote:
SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

Reopening really has no impact on SFO as every county is already in the orange tier with gyms and restaurants open. Covid case rates (per 100k) in CA are some of the lowest in the country and vaccination is going relatively well. I just think many leisure travelers are choosing Tahoe, Palm Springs, wine country, and other parts of SoCal by car. There is a lot more demand to PHX and Hawaii, but i haven’t seen the more typical transcon demand pick up. That is what I think will increase come June.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's not so much that people from the Bay Area are averse to flying, it's more like there is an abundance to do within a 5 hour drive of the Bay Area so for many people there simply isn't a need to fly.

You have Tahoe 5 hours east - winter skiing and summer activities + lake.
There's wine country 2-3 hours north.
The Mendocino Coast is 3+ hours north. Hikes, waterfalls, etc.
There's beach towns to the south, ranging from the more upscale Santa Barbara, Montecito, & Carmel to the more low-key such as Pismo Beach.

All of these places have experienced a renaissance of sorts simply because they are easily accessible both physically and financially when compared to flying somewhere. So with these activities relatively close by, the only other reasons people would need to travel is for VFR or business - and we all know how business travel is recovering.

I think the one positive here is that people are growing bored of the intra-California vacations. As a Bay Area resident, I've been to all of these places in the past year now. It's getting a little old - not just for me, but for many other people. This is where Hawaii comes into view for this summer.

jetblastdubai · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:03 am

jayunited wrote:

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

So it's officially "official" now? It's about time. IAD has so much potential as a N-S hub and Int'l gateway without the congestion issues of EWR. A new concourse is probably on a drawing board somewhere and hopefully it will be a modest de$ign and not the Taj Mahal-type terminal ORD is planning.

STT757 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:16 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

So it's officially "official" now? It's about time. IAD has so much potential as a N-S hub and Int'l gateway without the congestion issues of EWR. A new concourse is probably on a drawing board somewhere and hopefully it will be a modest de$ign and not the Taj Mahal-type terminal ORD is planning.

Why can't United take this opportunity to work out a new lease with the MWAA to move at least some of it's operations into gates on the A/ B concourse. The place was a ghost town many times pre-pandemic. They could probably fit a good portion of their domestic operation into the A/B concourse without too much displacement of other carriers. If they take over the A side of the concourse and expand it over the area now covered by the Express concourse they could probably fit about 18-20 domestic narrow body gates. It's similar to what they're doing in Denver, expanding the concourses and moving into concourse A.

The replacement for the C/D concourse should be a facility for all the airport's International flights with a new FIS facility. The current FIS facility in the main terminal could be used for expansion of the Z gates or a new regional express concourse.

The new Metro station should open in early 2022, this has been a long process but they're mostly complete. I wish it was closer to the main terminal, have to get reports about how the walk works out.

atcsundevil · Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:56 am

STT757 wrote:
Why can't United take this opportunity to work out a new lease with the MWAA to move at least some of it's operations into gates on the A/ B concourse. The place was a ghost town many times pre-pandemic. They could probably fit a good portion of their domestic operation into the A/B concourse without too much displacement of other carriers. If they take over the A side of the concourse and expand it over the area now covered by the Express concourse they could probably fit about 18-20 domestic narrow body gates. It's similar to what they're doing in Denver, expanding the concourses and moving into concourse A.

The replacement for the C/D concourse should be a facility for all the airport's International flights with a new FIS facility. The current FIS facility in the main terminal could be used for expansion of the Z gates or a new regional express concourse.

The new Metro station should open in early 2022, this has been a long process but they're mostly complete. I wish it was closer to the main terminal, have to get reports about how the walk works out.

I don't see UA moving into A/B. They'd only get use from it for a few hours per day once long haul flying returns. I don't see UA needing the additional gate space in the mean time. C/D still isn't fully utilized for much of the day even pre covid. If UA wants to move forward with an expansion, they simply need to come to an agreement on a C/D replacement. Maybe the possibility of an infrastructure bill moving through Congress will provide the airport with some funding to finally make it happen.

The walk from Metro to the terminal isn't bad. It's right by the parking garages, so it uses the same tunnel under the surface lot. Metro to the ticketing level is maybe 5-7 minutes, and there are moving walkways. It still should have definitely been built underneath the terminal, but it's not far enough away to really complain about.

MIflyer12 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:22 pm

jayunited wrote:
50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

That's an interesting detail. DL limited 50-seaters to flight segments 750 sm or less starting in 2010. Availability of Y+ F and wifi is great but you need people to be willing to pay for it, and that won't be the case for every route or time of day. People have to be ready to accept frequency and destination cuts (not just route - losing some destinations entirely.)

https://ir.delta.com/news/news-details/ ... fault.aspx

cosyr · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:27 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Why can't United take this opportunity to work out a new lease with the MWAA to move at least some of it's operations into gates on the A/ B concourse. The place was a ghost town many times pre-pandemic. They could probably fit a good portion of their domestic operation into the A/B concourse without too much displacement of other carriers. If they take over the A side of the concourse and expand it over the area now covered by the Express concourse they could probably fit about 18-20 domestic narrow body gates. It's similar to what they're doing in Denver, expanding the concourses and moving into concourse A.

The replacement for the C/D concourse should be a facility for all the airport's International flights with a new FIS facility. The current FIS facility in the main terminal could be used for expansion of the Z gates or a new regional express concourse.

The new Metro station should open in early 2022, this has been a long process but they're mostly complete. I wish it was closer to the main terminal, have to get reports about how the walk works out.

I don't see UA moving into A/B. They'd only get use from it for a few hours per day once long haul flying returns. I don't see UA needing the additional gate space in the mean time. C/D still isn't fully utilized for much of the day even pre covid. If UA wants to move forward with an expansion, they simply need to come to an agreement on a C/D replacement. Maybe the possibility of an infrastructure bill moving through Congress will provide the airport with some funding to finally make it happen.

The walk from Metro to the terminal isn't bad. It's right by the parking garages, so it uses the same tunnel under the surface lot. Metro to the ticketing level is maybe 5-7 minutes, and there are moving walkways. It still should have definitely been built underneath the terminal, but it's not far enough away to really complain about.

At some point, construction of a replacement C/D will interfere with some of their current gates. Getting access to A/B gates now would help them through construction, and when it's done, if they hang on to those gates, they can grow IAD even more.

DoctorVenkman · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:31 pm

jayunited wrote:
One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

I'm happy to see that UA recognizes this. In the pre-pandemic days I'd have to fly LAX-MIA regularly, and it was the only route I wouldn't fly on UA. Having a two hour layover in IAH was not competitive with about 10x daily direct flights on AA. If UA offered even 2x daily on that route I would take it since I much prefer UA to AA (and I have higher status..).

tphuang · Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:40 pm

jayunited wrote:
Here are a few updates from a call we had today covering this summer's outlook and what United is expecting to happen this upcoming fall/winter season.

All hubs will see a increase in total number of banks, some hubs will see an increase of just one additional bank while others this coming summer will see their banks increase by 3 or 4 additional banks.

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

LAX: Is performing quite well for UA better than expected. UA will continue to focus LAX on O&D traffic and leisure traffic. (quick side bar: it is one of the reasons UA in April is operating LAX-MCO 12x weekly while SFO-MCO only operates 5x weekly). Focusing LAX on leisure and O&D traffic is paying off for UA, UA sees no reason to change their focus at LAX.

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

EWR: is suffering like SFO from the lack of business and international long haul traffic, but unlike SFO leisure traffic and short haul international traffic is up. Short term UA will continue to focus EWR on leisure destinations like Florida, Arizona, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico. In the short term UA will limit the total number of departures at EWR do to runway construction. B6 for now still poses no real danger to UA at EWR, UA remains the largest carrier by a long shot at EWR. However UA does have a long term plans for EWR and NYC (which includes JFK) although no details were given which is to be expected, UA is not going to reveal their plans this early we all are just going to have to wait and see.

ORD: Traffic is finally increasing. In June ORD will see the number of banks increase from 5 banks to 9 banks. An increase in flights and banks will give customers more options and shortening connection times.

IAH: Continues to increasing demand, in June will go from 6 banks to 8 banks daily (keep in mind total number of banks is not a reflection of total number of flights, I think IAH will still out pace ORD in total number of flights during the summer of 2021). Increasing bank/flights will shortening customer connection times.

DEN: Continues to be the leader in demand. In June DEN will go from 6 to 9 banks, UA will increase total number of daily flights combined with more banks it will shorten customers connection times.

P2P Routes Florida: After a rough start last November those flights really came to life and paid off starting in mid-late January. UA is looking at resuming the routes fall 2021 hopefully with better result out of the gate.

P2P Routes Southeast Summer: No specific updates were given although UA does expect these routes to do well. I think this is more check back in the fall for results.

MCO: United has requested additional gates and space at MCO. United is looking to increase flights to MCO in the near future from not only our hubs but also add flights to MCO from a few of our larger line stations.

Florida: The pandemic has shown United the benefits of having a robust schedule to Florida. Although UA has no plans on establishing a hub in Florida or anywhere in the Southeast United will maintain and grow its presence in Florida even during the recovery.

Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

So when you hear Kirby talk about United is planning for the future this is the future United is trying to figure out how to navigate now before 2022 or 2023 arrives. Clearly United has a lot of work to do to figure how what our network will look like on the other side of this pandemic.

50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

Thanks jayunited. You really do provide some of the most informative and balanced posts on a.net

I'm really surprised that demand at SFO remains so much lower than LAX. Pre-COVID, it was the 3rd largest O&D market in the country. I guess that just shows how business and international heavy it is. The good thing for UA is that nobody else is really making any kind of move in bay area. I would imagine SFO will be smaller for a while for UA, since TPAC traffic is likely to take many years to comeback if the current US/China tension remains.

I think UA is making the right more at IAD. It has a lot more O&D than CLT, but the CPE is a lot higher also. With enough investment and gates, it could be a good connecting hub along east coast. Not a southeast station, but would allow UA to capture more of the northeast - midwest to Florida leisure traffic. This is probably a 10 year project if they really want to build it up.

I'm surprised they don't think B6 poses real danger. Looks like EWR is asking everyone to reduce number of departures.

I think they need to pick up the pace in expanding IAH. They can't fall too far behind DFW in size. That along with ever growing WN presence would be a huge hindrance to UA's success at IAH.

To me, DEN is doing great for UA. They can take their time at ORD, since AA is not bringing things back any faster. IAH is the one that they might fall behind.

I'm not sure how UA can transform itself to focus on leisure to Florida. It's cost is too high to sustain the continued sub $50 fares from northeast to Florida. It's one thing to protect your hub against NK incursion, but quite a defeating strategy to try compete against NK in P2P market to Florida. That only makes sense in the current environment when there is not a lot of business demand.

STT757 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:51 pm

United Orlando hub discussions:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1421043

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=232263&p=2338071&hilit=UA+MCO+hub#p2338071

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=201955&p=1936895&hilit=UA+MCO+hub#p1936895

AmericanAir88 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:01 pm

Has United been doing well at JFK since they started?

Also, do they have any plans go increase flight frequency or expand to say DEN? Maybe UA will start P2P flights from JFK to places in Florida/Rockies area?

Cboyle · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:11 pm

jayunited wrote:
Here are a few updates from a call we had today covering this summer's outlook and what United is expecting to happen this upcoming fall/winter season.

All hubs will see a increase in total number of banks, some hubs will see an increase of just one additional bank while others this coming summer will see their banks increase by 3 or 4 additional banks.

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

LAX: Is performing quite well for UA better than expected. UA will continue to focus LAX on O&D traffic and leisure traffic. (quick side bar: it is one of the reasons UA in April is operating LAX-MCO 12x weekly while SFO-MCO only operates 5x weekly). Focusing LAX on leisure and O&D traffic is paying off for UA, UA sees no reason to change their focus at LAX.

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

EWR: is suffering like SFO from the lack of business and international long haul traffic, but unlike SFO leisure traffic and short haul international traffic is up. Short term UA will continue to focus EWR on leisure destinations like Florida, Arizona, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico. In the short term UA will limit the total number of departures at EWR do to runway construction. B6 for now still poses no real danger to UA at EWR, UA remains the largest carrier by a long shot at EWR. However UA does have a long term plans for EWR and NYC (which includes JFK) although no details were given which is to be expected, UA is not going to reveal their plans this early we all are just going to have to wait and see.

ORD: Traffic is finally increasing. In June ORD will see the number of banks increase from 5 banks to 9 banks. An increase in flights and banks will give customers more options and shortening connection times.

IAH: Continues to increasing demand, in June will go from 6 banks to 8 banks daily (keep in mind total number of banks is not a reflection of total number of flights, I think IAH will still out pace ORD in total number of flights during the summer of 2021). Increasing bank/flights will shortening customer connection times.

DEN: Continues to be the leader in demand. In June DEN will go from 6 to 9 banks, UA will increase total number of daily flights combined with more banks it will shorten customers connection times.

P2P Routes Florida: After a rough start last November those flights really came to life and paid off starting in mid-late January. UA is looking at resuming the routes fall 2021 hopefully with better result out of the gate.

P2P Routes Southeast Summer: No specific updates were given although UA does expect these routes to do well. I think this is more check back in the fall for results.

MCO: United has requested additional gates and space at MCO. United is looking to increase flights to MCO in the near future from not only our hubs but also add flights to MCO from a few of our larger line stations.

Florida: The pandemic has shown United the benefits of having a robust schedule to Florida. Although UA has no plans on establishing a hub in Florida or anywhere in the Southeast United will maintain and grow its presence in Florida even during the recovery.

Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

So when you hear Kirby talk about United is planning for the future this is the future United is trying to figure out how to navigate now before 2022 or 2023 arrives. Clearly United has a lot of work to do to figure how what our network will look like on the other side of this pandemic.

50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

When will the FL P2P routes be bookable?

Cboyle · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:14 pm

jayunited wrote:
Here are a few updates from a call we had today covering this summer's outlook and what United is expecting to happen this upcoming fall/winter season.

All hubs will see a increase in total number of banks, some hubs will see an increase of just one additional bank while others this coming summer will see their banks increase by 3 or 4 additional banks.

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

LAX: Is performing quite well for UA better than expected. UA will continue to focus LAX on O&D traffic and leisure traffic. (quick side bar: it is one of the reasons UA in April is operating LAX-MCO 12x weekly while SFO-MCO only operates 5x weekly). Focusing LAX on leisure and O&D traffic is paying off for UA, UA sees no reason to change their focus at LAX.

IAD: is seeing an increase in traffic, UA will add 2 banks at IAD this summer to increase/or ease connectivity. (quick side bar again, long term UA is looking at advancing their plans for IAD, originally UA was looking at transitioning IAD into a major connecting hub by 2025 to service the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast and Florida. UA is now looking at moving up those plans depending on the recovery to 2022 or 2023.) There are no plans for a Southeast hub according to UA there is simply no place available so UA will build out IAD.

EWR: is suffering like SFO from the lack of business and international long haul traffic, but unlike SFO leisure traffic and short haul international traffic is up. Short term UA will continue to focus EWR on leisure destinations like Florida, Arizona, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean and Mexico. In the short term UA will limit the total number of departures at EWR do to runway construction. B6 for now still poses no real danger to UA at EWR, UA remains the largest carrier by a long shot at EWR. However UA does have a long term plans for EWR and NYC (which includes JFK) although no details were given which is to be expected, UA is not going to reveal their plans this early we all are just going to have to wait and see.

ORD: Traffic is finally increasing. In June ORD will see the number of banks increase from 5 banks to 9 banks. An increase in flights and banks will give customers more options and shortening connection times.

IAH: Continues to increasing demand, in June will go from 6 banks to 8 banks daily (keep in mind total number of banks is not a reflection of total number of flights, I think IAH will still out pace ORD in total number of flights during the summer of 2021). Increasing bank/flights will shortening customer connection times.

DEN: Continues to be the leader in demand. In June DEN will go from 6 to 9 banks, UA will increase total number of daily flights combined with more banks it will shorten customers connection times.

P2P Routes Florida: After a rough start last November those flights really came to life and paid off starting in mid-late January. UA is looking at resuming the routes fall 2021 hopefully with better result out of the gate.

P2P Routes Southeast Summer: No specific updates were given although UA does expect these routes to do well. I think this is more check back in the fall for results.

MCO: United has requested additional gates and space at MCO. United is looking to increase flights to MCO in the near future from not only our hubs but also add flights to MCO from a few of our larger line stations.

Florida: The pandemic has shown United the benefits of having a robust schedule to Florida. Although UA has no plans on establishing a hub in Florida or anywhere in the Southeast United will maintain and grow its presence in Florida even during the recovery.

Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?

So when you hear Kirby talk about United is planning for the future this is the future United is trying to figure out how to navigate now before 2022 or 2023 arrives. Clearly United has a lot of work to do to figure how what our network will look like on the other side of this pandemic.

50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

When will the FL P2P routes be bookable?

LAXintl · Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:21 pm

jayunited wrote:

SFO: has become UA worst performing hub in terms of business, international and leisure traffic. UA does expect improvement in June should the state fully reopen. UA will also add an additional late afternoon bank at SFO in June to increase connectivity.

The reason for late afternoon bank is due to closure of 28R/10L which will reduce SFO to a single arrival runway through the summer. As result, some evening arrivals moved earlier to the 16:00 hour to reduce arrival demand during later PM peak period.

calpsafltskeds · Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:22 pm

Good news, bad news or no news? Japan Airlines retires 777PW fleet.
Japan Airlines advances retirement by a year due fan blade checks - they were to retire next year, so this might not be a big deal.
Good news, will this move up the PW checks of UA fan blades? Maybe more engines will be available on the used market.
Bad news, does Japan have info on the potential numbers of bad blades? Will Japan Airlines dropping these units affect the support from PW with units to support are dwindling?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/japan-ai ... 20811.html

LAXintl · Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
I'm really surprised that demand at SFO remains so much lower than LAX. Pre-COVID, it was the 3rd largest O&D market in the country. I guess that just shows how business and international heavy it is. The good thing for UA is that nobody else is really making any kind of move in bay area. I would imagine SFO will be smaller for a while for UA, since TPAC traffic is likely to take many years to comeback if the current US/China tension remains.

Don't be. 50% of the UA SFO hubs traffic is based on international traffic flow. Loss of this long haul flying that supported much of the connecting domestic flying, and corporate travel freeze pretty much iced the place up.

LA on other and is O&D focused, which is helped by its larger population, more diverse economy(and cargo demand) and stronger inbound tourism draw.

tphuang wrote:
I think they need to pick up the pace in expanding IAH. They can't fall too far behind DFW in size. That along with ever growing WN presence would be a huge hindrance to UA's success at IAH.

UA IAH can never match AA DFW scale simply due to facility constraints. Pre-pandemic UA was running about the maximum it could and struggled.

AVENSAB727 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:17 pm

Once the New Terminal D is finished, UA will have more room to expand.

FSDan · Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:47 pm

LAXintl wrote:
UA IAH can never match AA DFW scale simply due to facility constraints. Pre-pandemic UA was running about the maximum it could and struggled.

Does that have anything to do with IAH being more heavily banked now than it used to be? CO was running over 700 daily flights out of IAH back in the late 2000s, admittedly with a huge portion of those being ER4s.

FlyPNS1 · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:06 pm

jayunited wrote:
50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

That would certainly be a welcome change. While I appreciate UAL adding routes like IAD-PNS and IAD-ECP...these routes are long for a 50 seater and not very cost competitive or product competitive (AA flies DCA-PNS with E175/CR9). And longer term, if UA is really going to grow IAD, routes like IAD-PNS should be able to support 70-76 seaters allowing more flow from northeast/midatlantic markets.

It's funny that UA will use a CRJ550 on CVG/CLE/PIT-PNS, but use a regular E145/CRJ200 on IAD-PNS.

tphuang · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:49 pm

LAXintl wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I'm really surprised that demand at SFO remains so much lower than LAX. Pre-COVID, it was the 3rd largest O&D market in the country. I guess that just shows how business and international heavy it is. The good thing for UA is that nobody else is really making any kind of move in bay area. I would imagine SFO will be smaller for a while for UA, since TPAC traffic is likely to take many years to comeback if the current US/China tension remains.

Don't be. 50% of the UA SFO hubs traffic is based on international traffic flow. Loss of this long haul flying that supported much of the connecting domestic flying, and corporate travel freeze pretty much iced the place up.

LA on other and is O&D focused, which is helped by its larger population, more diverse economy(and cargo demand) and stronger inbound tourism draw.

I get that, but UA faces minimal competition at SFO vs LAX. Pre-COVID, I think domestic O&D at SFO was about 2/3 of LAX. LAX also had a lot of business and international traffic. It's weird that demand at SFO has shrunk so much compared to LA Basin.

Well, I guess SFO will be half empty for a while then. I don't see how some of the transcon or near-transcon come back until those international flights come back.

clrd4t8koff · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:50 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
50 Seaters: United is looking at restricting the stage length of the 50 seaters, United still see a bright future for the CJR550s customers love the onboard configuration. UA will keep some regular CJR200s on hand to feed the hubs from some smaller towns/cities. For now nothing really concrete to share, should have more information on the overall future of the 50 seaters in 2022.

That would certainly be a welcome change. While I appreciate UAL adding routes like IAD-PNS and IAD-ECP...these routes are long for a 50 seater and not very cost competitive or product competitive (AA flies DCA-PNS with E175/CR9). And longer term, if UA is really going to grow IAD, routes like IAD-PNS should be able to support 70-76 seaters allowing more flow from northeast/midatlantic markets.

It's funny that UA will use a CRJ550 on CVG/CLE/PIT-PNS, but use a regular E145/CRJ200 on IAD-PNS.

PNS is completely overserved and the bubble will burst. Don’t complain it’s a “regular E145/CRJ200.” Just be happy for what you (temporarily) have. Don’t see these routes being around in 3-4 years.

VCVSpotter · Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:50 pm

Looks like they were able to get all of their final checks/work finished, United 777-200ER N798UA currently en route to VCV for storage.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n798ua

United 777-200ER N792UA filed EWR-VCV 11AM - 1:19PM as UA2704 for storage tomorrow (April 10). I may or may not be out there for it, still working things out. Registration N792UA is unconfirmed, but it's the only PW 772 stored at EWR. Looks like VCV is getting its fair share of UA PW 772s in addition to ROW.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ua2704

janders · Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:44 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Once the New Terminal D is finished, UA will have more room to expand.

Is the expanded D primarily for not international? So not sure that will add too much to the equation.

American at DFW was pushing close to 1,000 departures with the added gates in 2019. UA was like 500'ish in 2019 at IAH from what I can gather.

tphuang wrote:
I get that, but UA faces minimal competition at SFO vs LAX. Pre-COVID, I think domestic O&D at SFO was about 2/3 of LAX. LAX also had a lot of business and international traffic. It's weird that demand at SFO has shrunk so much compared to LA Basin.

Well, I guess SFO will be half empty for a while then. I don't see how some of the transcon or near-transcon come back until those international flights come back.

I suspect one of the issues with SFO, is the region's heavy focus on a single industry. With tech companies embracing work from anywhere concepts during COVID, people have left the region. Both commercial and residetial rents are down, and an economic slowdown can be felt.

In my view, as mentioned by others, LA basin has more things going for it, with a broader economic base(manufacturing, logistics, media, etc) a larger population base, and things like weather and tourist draw.

LAXintl · Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:08 pm

IAH is physically limited in the number of gates and also has logistical issues with passenger movement, baggage handling, and inefficient staffing required which creates bottlenecks.

The summer 2019 schedule pushed UA daily departures to over 500 which had a considerable negative impact on the operation. Most banks had near 100% gate utilization planed and 3-banks (09:30, 12:00 and 18:00) had more flights scheduled than gates if everything was operating on-time.

The baggage handling limitations can likely be considered resolved once the new system is fully operational in 2022, but the airports overall gate count shortage, and terminal layout still make it less than ideal for passenger movement and also requires a over sized number of staff to work. I believe it was either Andrew Nocella or Kirby that mentioned something like they would love to blow the place up and start from scratch with a new design.

calpsafltskeds · Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm

UA grounded MAX units 7515-7530 for electrical inspections (16 total) after their flights on 4/8. Some are scheduled to fly tomorrow, some the 11th and some without a scheduled flight.
Looking at aircraft that were scheduled to be short term parked today, many are now covering, mostly 739s, with some 738s, 73G, Airbus and a 753.

LGeneReese · Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:36 am

calpsafltskeds wrote:
UA grounded MAX units 7515-7530 for electrical inspections (16 total) after their flights on 4/8. Some are scheduled to fly tomorrow, some the 11th and some without a scheduled flight.
Looking at aircraft that were scheduled to be short term parked today, many are now covering, mostly 739s, with some 738s, 73G, Airbus and a 753.

viewtopic.php?t=1459707

jayunited · Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:40 am

tphuang wrote:
I'm surprised they don't think B6 poses real danger. Looks like EWR is asking everyone to reduce number of departures.

I think the reason UA doesn't see B6 as much of a threat right now is because UA at EWR is operating more nonstop flights than B6 is out of EWR, JFK, and LGA combined. When you jettison all the codeshare flights with AA and even B6's codeshare with HA to HNL and focus on JetBlue operated metal tomorrow (Saturday April 10, 2021) B6 is scheduled to operate 135 total flights out of all three airports combined but only 40 are out of EWR. United on the other hand is schedule to operate 175 flights (not including cargo only flights) out of EWR alone tomorrow (Saturday April 10, 2021) and when you add in LGA and JFK United will operate 188 total flights out of NYC. Subsequently DL is scheduled to operate 190 total flights out of all 3 NYC airports tomorrow.

United still has around 80 or so narrowbodies in storage. We could pull them all out now and flood the EWR market with an over abundance of capacity but a move like that would only play into B6's hand because it would cost UA money, weaken our financial position, UA would basically be fighting itself. When compared to 2019 passenger numbers and daily number of flights across all 3 airports it is obvious demand to/from NYC is down substantially.

Delta, JetBlue and United are all facing the same problem in the NYC market (lack of business traffic (and for DL and UA ) lack of international long haul traffic) so they are all chasing leisure travelers right now. However there aren't a whole lot of tourist going to NYC for vacation so they are basically flying O&D traffic out of NYC and back. Looking at the total daily departures out of NYC it is obvious UA is not falling behind we are keeping up with DL in terms of total number of flights and we continue to outpace B6.

jbs2886 · Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:37 am

jayunited wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I'm surprised they don't think B6 poses real danger. Looks like EWR is asking everyone to reduce number of departures.

I think the reason UA doesn't see B6 as much of a threat right now is because UA at EWR is operating more nonstop flights than B6 is out of EWR, JFK, and LGA combined. When you jettison all the codeshare flights with AA and even B6's codeshare with HA to HNL and focus on JetBlue operated metal tomorrow (Saturday April 10, 2021) B6 is scheduled to operate 135 total flights out of all three airports combined but only 40 are out of EWR. United on the other hand is schedule to operate 175 flights (not including cargo only flights) out of EWR alone tomorrow (Saturday April 10, 2021) and when you add in LGA and JFK United will operate 188 total flights out of NYC. Subsequently DL is scheduled to operate 190 total flights out of all 3 NYC airports tomorrow.

United still has around 80 or so narrowbodies in storage. We could pull them all out now and flood the EWR market with an over abundance of capacity but a move like that would only play into B6's hand because it would cost UA money, weaken our financial position, UA would basically be fighting itself. When compared to 2019 passenger numbers and daily number of flights across all 3 airports it is obvious demand to/from NYC is down substantially.

Delta, JetBlue and United are all facing the same problem in the NYC market (lack of business traffic (and for DL and UA ) lack of international long haul traffic) so they are all chasing leisure travelers right now. However there aren't a whole lot of tourist going to NYC for vacation so they are basically flying O&D traffic out of NYC and back. Looking at the total daily departures out of NYC it is obvious UA is not falling behind we are keeping up with DL in terms of total number of flights and we continue to outpace B6.

I don’t think you can look at it that narrowly. The issue is whether JetBlue is gaining marketshare during this time that will put them in a better position for recovery. If I had to guess, the proportion of JetBlue flights to UAA NYC flights is much higher than it was pre-pandemic.

But maybe UA isn’t worried because UA has a lot more room to ramp up and JetBlue is pretty much operating at full.

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