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Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Midwestindy wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Yep should be released any day now.
drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
Nicknuzzii wrote:drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
I would not do that at all. They’re gonna be flexible with the changes. If you wanna get really good prices book soon before they update. I have seen routes go from $70 to $600+ in a day.
jayunited wrote:@sldispatcher I know UA has been publishing an updated June schedule and so far DEN-SHV-DEN is still on the schedule, keep those fingers crossed you just might finally get your wish.
Nicknuzzii wrote:drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
I would not do that at all. They’re gonna be flexible with the changes. If you wanna get really good prices book soon before they update. I have seen routes go from $70 to $600+ in a day.
jayunited wrote:drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
I would estimate June is around 93% done it looks like the last major hub they have to work on is EWR. Although some line stations destinations out of EWR have been updated (reduced frequency) they are still working on making sure they match capacity to demand out of NYC. If your travel plans don't include EWR then for the most part June's long haul, short haul, and domestic schedule has been published. However (I feel like I have to say this so people can't come back at me later) there may still be reductions in the schedule 3 or 4 weeks out if capacity outpaces demand .
jayunited wrote:drerx7 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Yep should be released any day now.
Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
I would estimate June is around 93% done it looks like the last major hub they have to work on is EWR. Although some line stations destinations out of EWR have been updated (reduced frequency) they are still working on making sure they match capacity to demand out of NYC. If your travel plans don't include EWR then for the most part June's long haul, short haul, and domestic schedule has been published. However (I feel like I have to say this so people can't come back at me later) there may still be reductions in the schedule 3 or 4 weeks out if capacity outpaces demand .
Midwestindy wrote:Btw for those that don't know, you can see the final June schedule on Unitedcargo, the UA.com schedule is not accurate yet:
Go to the tracking & schedules tab and click on find schedules.
Unitedcargo has the schedule normally days before it shows up on ua.com. This is what I've been doing to track schedules since COVID broke out.
mmahpeel wrote:There are surely more changes coming for the June schedule currently for sale. I note on virtually every flight I review that is operated by 737-900 equipment, the full 20 first class seats are not authorized for sale, either only 16 and usually 13 are authorized at this point. Same is happening for the A320 fleet - I don't see flights where all 12 first seats are for sale, usually only 10. At the very least there will be changes to the final equipment type allocated to a particular flight.
Scarebus34 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Btw for those that don't know, you can see the final June schedule on Unitedcargo, the UA.com schedule is not accurate yet:
Go to the tracking & schedules tab and click on find schedules.
Unitedcargo has the schedule normally days before it shows up on ua.com. This is what I've been doing to track schedules since COVID broke out.
Looks like more hot garbage. AA is going big - United seems content on giving up market share. We'll see who's strategy comes out on top.
Scarebus34 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Btw for those that don't know, you can see the final June schedule on Unitedcargo, the UA.com schedule is not accurate yet:
Go to the tracking & schedules tab and click on find schedules.
Unitedcargo has the schedule normally days before it shows up on ua.com. This is what I've been doing to track schedules since COVID broke out.
Looks like more hot garbage. AA is going big - United seems content on giving up market share. We'll see who's strategy comes out on top.
CALMSP wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Btw for those that don't know, you can see the final June schedule on Unitedcargo, the UA.com schedule is not accurate yet:
Go to the tracking & schedules tab and click on find schedules.
Unitedcargo has the schedule normally days before it shows up on ua.com. This is what I've been doing to track schedules since COVID broke out.
Looks like more hot garbage. AA is going big - United seems content on giving up market share. We'll see who's strategy comes out on top.
I swear, it seems the only thing coming out of UA is social justice items and Scott's only focus.
audidudi wrote:mmahpeel wrote:There are surely more changes coming for the June schedule currently for sale. I note on virtually every flight I review that is operated by 737-900 equipment, the full 20 first class seats are not authorized for sale, either only 16 and usually 13 are authorized at this point. Same is happening for the A320 fleet - I don't see flights where all 12 first seats are for sale, usually only 10. At the very least there will be changes to the final equipment type allocated to a particular flight.
The A320 fleet, if you are including all 3 models, A319/A320/A321, have 12/16/20 FC seats respectively.
Midwestindy wrote:jayunited wrote:@sldispatcher I know UA has been publishing an updated June schedule and so far DEN-SHV-DEN is still on the schedule, keep those fingers crossed you just might finally get your wish.
Looks like it didn't make the final June cutNicknuzzii wrote:drerx7 wrote:Thanks for the update - I literally follow this thread to know when to shop for my UA flights. I am literally waiting to book an itinerary right now based upon when this thread signals the all clear.
I would not do that at all. They’re gonna be flexible with the changes. If you wanna get really good prices book soon before they update. I have seen routes go from $70 to $600+ in a day.
It’s normally an inventory quirk, when a new flight is loaded, airlines release the highest airfare buckets first. It doesn't normally happen with the ULCCs or LCCs, but it does with the US3. It’s normally not a problem since pre-covid the US3 updated schedules on the weekends when few people would be booking anyway.
That being said, UA's fares have been very high on many routes close-in since they are flying so little relative to demand, so expect high fares if you wait too long. I read that 40% of UA's ORD flights were going out at LF at or above 90%.
tphuang wrote:What is UA losing by not fighting as hard for the low yielding leisure traffic that AA has been chasing?
psa1011 wrote:I've been seeing Wiki references to supposed new routes by UA, however no source is provided, and none is for sale. I can't tell if this is insider knowledge that someone within UA is teasing or just a troll. Here are just a few I'm seeing scheduled to start during 2021:
SFO-ITO/LGB/COS
DEN-LGB
tphuang wrote:CALMSP wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Looks like more hot garbage. AA is going big - United seems content on giving up market share. We'll see who's strategy comes out on top.
I swear, it seems the only thing coming out of UA is social justice items and Scott's only focus.
UA is coming out of this with no actual fleet retirement, although some of the long term parked ones are unlikely to ever come back.
UA is coming out of this with all of its pilots current and hiring new pilots again to replace the retired ones.
UA is coming out of this burning less cash than DL and AA.
UA will have a lot less debt coming out of this than AA.
And UA had to deal with its hubs been hit harder in demand than the other 2.
When demand is actually back, UA will be able to meet that demand. AA and DL will need to work really hard to get back to their pre-COVID fleet size and pilot count. Both AA and DL will be facing a lot of costs in the coming month in retraining the pilots that got furloughed or displaced.
What is UA losing by not fighting as hard for the low yielding leisure traffic that AA has been chasing?
jayunited wrote:Domestic recovery problems UA will face: Pre-pandemic a large majority of UA focus was on business travelers. One of UA's biggest complaints from their business travelers was how difficult if not nearly impossible it was for them to reach Florida and the Southeast if they were going on vacation or to their summer/winter home, or 2nd home. For the most part UA could ignore those complaints because we had a robust domestic business schedule and an unbeatable long haul international schedule. However United admits the lack of options forced customers to turn to Delta, Southwest and even American for their leisure travel to Florida and the Southeast something UA was willing to accept pre-pandemic as the cost of doing business. The conundrum United now admits we face is once we really enter the recovery phase in 2022 or 2023 (no one really know when business travel and long haul travel will come back) is this, how does United maintain the leisure schedule to Florida and the Southeast and still provide 16x daily nonstops Monday thru Friday on a route like ORD-LGA for example?
tphuang wrote:CALMSP wrote:Scarebus34 wrote:Looks like more hot garbage. AA is going big - United seems content on giving up market share. We'll see who's strategy comes out on top.
I swear, it seems the only thing coming out of UA is social justice items and Scott's only focus.
UA is coming out of this with no actual fleet retirement, although some of the long term parked ones are unlikely to ever come back.
UA is coming out of this with all of its pilots current and hiring new pilots again to replace the retired ones.
UA is coming out of this burning less cash than DL and AA.
UA will have a lot less debt coming out of this than AA.
And UA had to deal with its hubs been hit harder in demand than the other 2.
When demand is actually back, UA will be able to meet that demand. AA and DL will need to work really hard to get back to their pre-COVID fleet size and pilot count. Both AA and DL will be facing a lot of costs in the coming month in retraining the pilots that got furloughed or displaced.
What is UA losing by not fighting as hard for the low yielding leisure traffic that AA has been chasing?
adamblang wrote:tphuang wrote:CALMSP wrote:
I swear, it seems the only thing coming out of UA is social justice items and Scott's only focus.
UA is coming out of this with no actual fleet retirement, although some of the long term parked ones are unlikely to ever come back.
UA is coming out of this with all of its pilots current and hiring new pilots again to replace the retired ones.
UA is coming out of this burning less cash than DL and AA.
UA will have a lot less debt coming out of this than AA.
And UA had to deal with its hubs been hit harder in demand than the other 2.
When demand is actually back, UA will be able to meet that demand. AA and DL will need to work really hard to get back to their pre-COVID fleet size and pilot count. Both AA and DL will be facing a lot of costs in the coming month in retraining the pilots that got furloughed or displaced.
What is UA losing by not fighting as hard for the low yielding leisure traffic that AA has been chasing?
I don't know why some folks here are getting so worked up market share. It's not like market share is a fixed, permanent thing. Market share also doesn't pay the bills.
Summer 2021 is wild and unpredictable. If planners play it safe, maybe they leave a few dollars on the table but they come out the other end fine. If they flood the market with seats, maybe they make a pile of money or maybe they lose their shirts transporting people at a loss.
And all this reaction is about a schedule that isn't even finalized yet. Maybe we do end up with 8x 320s on IAH-MSY. Who knows?
If this is still happening in 2022, sure, get up in arms. But summer 2021 is still travel in the era of pandemic uncertainty.
drerx7 wrote:Thanks for the replies, I am more concerned about booking a widebody and it ends up being a 320 or 739. I am specifically looking at SJU - EWR, JFK-LAX, LAX - IAH. I know the JFK - LAX is solid. The others have alot of ambiguity seemingly in them. Thanks again for all the responses yall.
adamblang wrote:tphuang wrote:CALMSP wrote:
I swear, it seems the only thing coming out of UA is social justice items and Scott's only focus.
UA is coming out of this with no actual fleet retirement, although some of the long term parked ones are unlikely to ever come back.
UA is coming out of this with all of its pilots current and hiring new pilots again to replace the retired ones.
UA is coming out of this burning less cash than DL and AA.
UA will have a lot less debt coming out of this than AA.
And UA had to deal with its hubs been hit harder in demand than the other 2.
When demand is actually back, UA will be able to meet that demand. AA and DL will need to work really hard to get back to their pre-COVID fleet size and pilot count. Both AA and DL will be facing a lot of costs in the coming month in retraining the pilots that got furloughed or displaced.
What is UA losing by not fighting as hard for the low yielding leisure traffic that AA has been chasing?
I don't know why some folks here are getting so worked up market share. It's not like market share is a fixed, permanent thing. Market share also doesn't pay the bills.
Summer 2021 is wild and unpredictable. If planners play it safe, maybe they leave a few dollars on the table but they come out the other end fine. If they flood the market with seats, maybe they make a pile of money or maybe they lose their shirts transporting people at a loss.
And all this reaction is about a schedule that isn't even finalized yet. Maybe we do end up with 8x 320s on IAH-MSY. Who knows?
If this is still happening in 2022, sure, get up in arms. But summer 2021 is still travel in the era of pandemic uncertainty.
gwrudolph wrote:
Market share may not pay the bills in the short term, but it is often a strategic investment. Regaining it can be very expensive if not impossible sometimes
Midwestindy wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Yep should be released any day now.
jayunited wrote:gwrudolph wrote:
Market share may not pay the bills in the short term, but it is often a strategic investment. Regaining it can be very expensive if not impossible sometimes
I get the feeling UA is operating under the impression there will be no 4th pay check protection program, if this ends up being the case now is the time right size the ship not October 1st when the PPP runs out again. As much as we all want to believe the crisis is over because more people are flying for airlines like AA, DL and UA this isn't over not by a long shot. For LCCs/ULCCs the crisis is probably over for them. So the question for UA is do you continue to burn cash now chasing every single leisure customer and risk not having enough cash to fight later in 2022 and 2023? Or do you conserve your cash today because you realize you've going to need it in 2022 and 2023 when there is no pay check protection program covering employee cost.
Midwestindy wrote:jayunited wrote:gwrudolph wrote:
Market share may not pay the bills in the short term, but it is often a strategic investment. Regaining it can be very expensive if not impossible sometimes
I get the feeling UA is operating under the impression there will be no 4th pay check protection program, if this ends up being the case now is the time right size the ship not October 1st when the PPP runs out again. As much as we all want to believe the crisis is over because more people are flying for airlines like AA, DL and UA this isn't over not by a long shot. For LCCs/ULCCs the crisis is probably over for them. So the question for UA is do you continue to burn cash now chasing every single leisure customer and risk not having enough cash to fight later in 2022 and 2023? Or do you conserve your cash today because you realize you've going to need it in 2022 and 2023 when there is no pay check protection program covering employee cost.
No airline will need a PPP in 2022 or 2023, let alone UA. Wall street consensus estimate is UAL will be EPS positive by Q4 of this year, and UA itself said they expect their 2023 margin to be higher than pre-covid.
https://ir.united.com/static-files/e4f5 ... d3e0c0269c
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/ ... l/earnings
Midwestindy wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Nicknuzzii wrote:Should we expect the June schedule this week or am I being too optimistic?
Yep should be released any day now.
Updated schedule up on ua.com
jayunited wrote:gwrudolph wrote:
Market share may not pay the bills in the short term, but it is often a strategic investment. Regaining it can be very expensive if not impossible sometimes
But you are assuming market share gained today will be the same tomorrow. UA has gained market share in Florida, Mexico and Latin (Central) America, but will we hold on to that market share in 2022 or 2023 or give it up to go after more lucrative business/international traffic? Do you actually think summer of 2022 or 2023 American will utilize their 787s on routes to ANC, or utilize 777s on every JFK-MIA departure or have enough aircraft to hold on to whatever marketshare they are going after this summer if business and long haul international traffic picks up next summer. American announced a whole host of new flights many of them 1x weekly but in the TPG article the VP of network planning states they reason they can do that this year is because the government is covering their payroll. American has decided to go all in and utilize every aircraft in their fleet but according to their most recent 1K filing they expect their Q1 burn rate to be $27 million dollars a day. Not all of that $27 million is core burn but their core burn is expected to be much higher than DL or UA in Q1. United expects Q1 revenue to be down 66% vs 2019 AA expects revenue to be down 62% vs 2019 but AA is burning cash on their core operations chasing bottom of the barrel fares. Like I said in the AA thread it is to early to crown a summer 2021 winner between the US3, but it is obvious AA has decided it is better for them to go all in since they don't have to worry about employee cost. UA even with more liquidity than AA is focusing on having enough capacity to meet demand, conserving cash by keeping the core "operational" burn rate in the positive throughout the summer. I get the feeling UA is operating under the impression there will be no 4th pay check protection program, if this ends up being the case now is the time right size the ship not October 1st when the PPP runs out again. As much as we all want to believe the crisis is over because more people are flying for airlines like AA, DL and UA this isn't over not by a long shot. For LCCs/ULCCs the crisis is probably over for them. So the question for UA is do you continue to burn cash now chasing every single leisure customer and risk not having enough cash to fight later in 2022 and 2023? Or do you conserve your cash today because you realize you've going to need it in 2022 and 2023 when there is no pay check protection program covering employee cost.
AA, DL, and UA are all taking a different strategic path for summer 2021 hoping their individual path will set them up for success as the industry enters fall 2021 but more importantly winter 2021/2022. I don't which airline is making the right decision, I don't know if we will look back in 2022/2023 and say United you should have swung for the fences in 2021 and followed American lead. Or if American will look back and say we should have focused more on lowering our cash burn while the PPP was in effect.
kngkyle wrote:I booked three June flights today before the schedule got updated (for Newark at least) and all of them ended up getting slightly changed (thankfully no issues). Looking now, the price for each of them shot up by $100-$300. Timed that right it seems.
AmericanAir88 wrote:Trying to book a flight back to NYC. (Want to fly UA to help get Premier Silver).
Noticing that prices are much higher than in the previous few months.
intotheair wrote:AmericanAir88 wrote:Trying to book a flight back to NYC. (Want to fly UA to help get Premier Silver).
Noticing that prices are much higher than in the previous few months.
That’s what I’ve been saying too. I’m seeing SFO-DEN r/t pushing $500 in regular coach. In the last few months and pre-pandemic, it was usually somewhere between $240-$350. I wonder if they’re hiking up fares now that the pent up demand is about to burst.
LAXdude1023 wrote:In terms of routes that were cancelled and now are back in June, I see IAH-RIC and IAD-PDX. Looking for others...
jetmatt777 wrote:kngkyle wrote:I booked three June flights today before the schedule got updated (for Newark at least) and all of them ended up getting slightly changed (thankfully no issues). Looking now, the price for each of them shot up by $100-$300. Timed that right it seems.
Part of that is just how the booking engine handles new flights showing up. Usually the fare buckets are not completely loaded at the same time as the schedule gets pushed out. Those high fares just reflect the system figuring out what’s going on. I have noticed this on every legacy carrier for years, it takes a day or two for the fares to get updated.
cosyr wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:kngkyle wrote:I booked three June flights today before the schedule got updated (for Newark at least) and all of them ended up getting slightly changed (thankfully no issues). Looking now, the price for each of them shot up by $100-$300. Timed that right it seems.
Part of that is just how the booking engine handles new flights showing up. Usually the fare buckets are not completely loaded at the same time as the schedule gets pushed out. Those high fares just reflect the system figuring out what’s going on. I have noticed this on every legacy carrier for years, it takes a day or two for the fares to get updated.
I really hope that's the case, because flights I've been looking at to CUN just jumped from around $800 r/t to $3500 for the last week of June! I had hoped that $800 was unrealistic and would come down to $500-600.