United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q2 2021

codc10 · Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:29 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Just wait till UA finds out how much JFK demand has changed during the course of the pandemic. JFK-LHR 3x is not happening period. How could you make the argument that business travel is down and that’s why they will cut EWR to 4x then also try to say they need 3x from JFK because of business demand?

Did I say it was because of business demand? Nope. In fact, the only reason there was a planned 7x EWR-LHR operation for Summer 2020 and beyond (which never happened) was to cater to a traditional, Manhattan-centric business demand profile that has fragmented in a way that nobody could have predicted at the beginning of 2020. Manhattan business will substantially return, but a considerable number of the people who lived there, and fit international business class demographics, have left for the suburbs of New Jersey, Long Island, Westchester and Connecticut. Middle and senior level staff, including those who frequently traveled between New York and global business centers, will likely not be in office setting 5 days a week as in the past. The model is evolving. If UA hopes to recapture its clientele, meet the needs of its corporate clients and potentially expand its customer base, it must prepare to be where its customers are. Manhattan will always be the "center of gravity" but at least for the next few years airlines and businesses are not expecting a snap-back to normalcy.

It's no use arguing over something that I posit as mere speculation, subject to a multitude of external factors that none of us can predict... it is expressly not an expectation or forecast.

tphuang · Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
That's because we were in the biggest cash crunch in airline industry. We are almost out of it. JetBlue is back operating as 2% less capacity this June vs 2019.

Please don't confuse operating capacity and revenue. Capacity doesn't mean planes are full; it doesn't mean customers are paying 2019-avg fares. B6's own 8-K this week gave guidance of 2Q21 revenue being down 30-35% vs. 2Q19.

I'm really not. My point is that we have gotten to the point where airlines are thinking less about just saving cash. They are making plans for the future. One can argue that B6 has never worked particularly hard at conserving cash vs other airlines. It's clear that they are all-in on NYC. JFK terminal project is far and away the most important facility project they will have in the next 10 years. It maybe delayed for short period time due to what we just went through. It will not be delayed once they think they making money again. It should not take until end of 2022 for them to be making money again unless we dip into another prolonged demand slump that lasts for the next 18 months.

JetBlue will be particularly eager to knock down T-7 to effectively control the largest or the second largest terminal in JFK. It won't be any different than other airlines accumulating as many gates as they can in their hub airports.

JetBlue's plans for 240+ flights per day at JFK had to be supportable within the current infrastructure anyway, so I don't see anything standing in the way of that... though it will be a busy summer at T5.

it's current facility cannot support 240 flights a day from JetBlue. More importantly, completing T5 to T7 gives JetBlue control at JFK. Along with its partnership with AA, they can dictate where domestic airlines operate out of. They can effectively lock out future ULCC competition. This is bigger than just UA. JetBlue does not have 3 or 4 other projects going on around the country like DL. This is it for them.

codc10 · Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:03 pm

tphuang wrote:
it's current facility cannot support 240 flights a day from JetBlue. More importantly, completing T5 to T7 gives JetBlue control at JFK. Along with its partnership with AA, they can dictate where domestic airlines operate out of. They can effectively lock out future ULCC competition. This is bigger than just UA. JetBlue does not have 3 or 4 other projects going on around the country like DL. This is it for them.

My apologies as I misread your post... I'm not familiar with JetBlue's planned 2021 summer schedule at JFK and I mistakenly read the 240+ figure for this summer. It makes sense now that they need additional gates to support 240+ daily flights. I fully agree that 8+ turns a day out of the existing T5 facility is unrealistic for JFK and the way JetBlue operates.

With all that said, JetBlue cannot snap a finger and make a new terminal materialize. In the on-time scenario, construction would have been underway already; as far as I can tell nothing has started. So, at minimum, I would think we are already about a year behind schedule. Again, a project like that must be funded before it begins, and the bond market is different today than it was in December 2019. At this point you'd think they would be looking at interim solutions to support growth as a new terminal is probably farther away than anticipated.

Nicknuzzii · Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:36 pm

Saw the new United club at EWR today. Honestly really disappointed with how they ruined C3. Essentially the high ceilings will be gone and it will be just like the other concourses. Why didn’t they just build over the Head house?

N649DL · Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Saw the new United club at EWR today. Honestly really disappointed with how they ruined C3. Essentially the high ceilings will be gone and it will be just like the other concourses. Why didn’t they just build over the Head house?

They had to do something & quick regarding club space. Once they announced that the newer club was going to be converted to a Polaris Lounge, I knew that spelled out major crowding issues. What they maybe should've done was have retrofitted the 1980s C-2 to the Polaris Lounge instead as it was already way overdue for a makeover. The "Pop-Up" Club was also just sad.

Is UA still planning on operating BOS-LHR? I thought they might've rolled that back because of the pandemic? Regarding the return of the JFK-SFO/LAX operations, I checked the seat maps last week randomly on the app. JFK-LAX looked pretty filled up but SFO was light.

tphuang · Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:49 pm

codc10 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it's current facility cannot support 240 flights a day from JetBlue. More importantly, completing T5 to T7 gives JetBlue control at JFK. Along with its partnership with AA, they can dictate where domestic airlines operate out of. They can effectively lock out future ULCC competition. This is bigger than just UA. JetBlue does not have 3 or 4 other projects going on around the country like DL. This is it for them.

My apologies as I misread your post... I'm not familiar with JetBlue's planned 2021 summer schedule at JFK and I mistakenly read the 240+ figure for this summer. It makes sense now that they need additional gates to support 240+ daily flights. I fully agree that 8+ turns a day out of the existing T5 facility is unrealistic for JFK and the way JetBlue operates.

With all that said, JetBlue cannot snap a finger and make a new terminal materialize. In the on-time scenario, construction would have been underway already; as far as I can tell nothing has started. So, at minimum, I would think we are already about a year behind schedule. Again, a project like that must be funded before it begins, and the bond market is different today than it was in December 2019. At this point you'd think they would be looking at interim solutions to support growth as a new terminal is probably farther away than anticipated.

What interim solution do they have? They have massively reduced pretty much every other focus city to support NYC growth. There is no alternative to their NYC buildup. There is major investment and growth coming at JFK and LGA over the next 12 months as part of NEA. They got 2 years before they BA and other airlines have to move out. They have no facility project anywhere else in the network. They have debt to cap ratio of 59% (still second best among US airlines). I'm not sure why you think JetBlue is incapable of taking on a project when DL has 4 projects ongoing. The only way this doesn't happen on time is if 2022 continues to be terrible for the us airlines industry. It doesn't look like that will happen. If it does happen, I'd think UA's ambition at JFK would be pretty tame for a little while longer.

Again, they can delay starting the project without delaying knocking down T-7. This is about JetBlue having control over who flies out of where in JFK. This is about JetBlue having complete control over the most or second most attractive asset in one of the world's most well known international airports. Think about the value of that for their market value.

If UA wants a medium term solution at JFK, it needs to get into negotiation table with JetBlue or deal with whatever is left over at T-4. The sooner it figures out a solution, the better.

codc10 · Sat May 01, 2021 1:33 am

tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it's current facility cannot support 240 flights a day from JetBlue. More importantly, completing T5 to T7 gives JetBlue control at JFK. Along with its partnership with AA, they can dictate where domestic airlines operate out of. They can effectively lock out future ULCC competition. This is bigger than just UA. JetBlue does not have 3 or 4 other projects going on around the country like DL. This is it for them.

My apologies as I misread your post... I'm not familiar with JetBlue's planned 2021 summer schedule at JFK and I mistakenly read the 240+ figure for this summer. It makes sense now that they need additional gates to support 240+ daily flights. I fully agree that 8+ turns a day out of the existing T5 facility is unrealistic for JFK and the way JetBlue operates.

With all that said, JetBlue cannot snap a finger and make a new terminal materialize. In the on-time scenario, construction would have been underway already; as far as I can tell nothing has started. So, at minimum, I would think we are already about a year behind schedule. Again, a project like that must be funded before it begins, and the bond market is different today than it was in December 2019. At this point you'd think they would be looking at interim solutions to support growth as a new terminal is probably farther away than anticipated.

What interim solution do they have? They have massively reduced pretty much every other focus city to support NYC growth. There is no alternative to their NYC buildup. There is major investment and growth coming at JFK and LGA over the next 12 months as part of NEA. They got 2 years before they BA and other airlines have to move out. They have no facility project anywhere else in the network. They have debt to cap ratio of 59% (still second best among US airlines). I'm not sure why you think JetBlue is incapable of taking on a project when DL has 4 projects ongoing. The only way this doesn't happen on time is if 2022 continues to be terrible for the us airlines industry. It doesn't look like that will happen. If it does happen, I'd think UA's ambition at JFK would be pretty tame for a little while longer.

Again, they can delay starting the project without delaying knocking down T-7. This is about JetBlue having control over who flies out of where in JFK. This is about JetBlue having complete control over the most or second most attractive asset in one of the world's most well known international airports. Think about the value of that for their market value.

If UA wants a medium term solution at JFK, it needs to get into negotiation table with JetBlue or deal with whatever is left over at T-4. The sooner it figures out a solution, the better.

We are just talking around each other. I am not suggesting that JetBlue is "incapable" (your words, not mine) of taking on the T6 project. I am saying that the T6 project, as was announced in late 2019, appears to be stalled. The funding is not currently in place. Construction isn't underway. As far as I can tell, that's objective fact. But you don't seem to be interested in discussing that.

Most likely, what's happening is behind-the-scenes discussions to revamp the project (much like JFKIAT has done with T4) to reduce scope and capital cost. Perhaps in the coming months we'll see a revised proposal brought to the PANYNJ Board for approval. That will require changes to the JetBlue T5 lease, perhaps a new lease for the to-be-developed T6 facility, and a revision or sunset of the BA T7 lease. The process is necessarily public, so the timelines and high-level approvals will be no secret. But those are all prerequisites for any major facility projects at JFK, and in the interim, it's not unreasonable to expect the status quo to persist.

I would also note that, philosophically, what you're suggesting (JetBlue to "control" JFK) is diametrically opposed to the Port Authority's current stance on competitive access to its airport faciltiies. The Port has been much more aggressive in demanding common-use gate allocation for major projects, especially those in which the PA partially funds. Criticism over historical exclusive leases on gates (UA at EWR C, AA at JFK T8) reducing access to new-entrants has led the Port to adopt new usage thresholds and common/preferential use stipulations for the most recent terminal projects.

That's not to say B6 won't utilize gates it has a hand in developing, but the Port is committed to creating more common use gates at its airports, so non-incumbent players (like B6 at EWR, or UA at JFK) are not hamstrung by a lack of gate space if they intend to add service that the airfield can support.

tphuang · Sat May 01, 2021 2:33 am

codc10 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:

My apologies as I misread your post... I'm not familiar with JetBlue's planned 2021 summer schedule at JFK and I mistakenly read the 240+ figure for this summer. It makes sense now that they need additional gates to support 240+ daily flights. I fully agree that 8+ turns a day out of the existing T5 facility is unrealistic for JFK and the way JetBlue operates.

With all that said, JetBlue cannot snap a finger and make a new terminal materialize. In the on-time scenario, construction would have been underway already; as far as I can tell nothing has started. So, at minimum, I would think we are already about a year behind schedule. Again, a project like that must be funded before it begins, and the bond market is different today than it was in December 2019. At this point you'd think they would be looking at interim solutions to support growth as a new terminal is probably farther away than anticipated.

What interim solution do they have? They have massively reduced pretty much every other focus city to support NYC growth. There is no alternative to their NYC buildup. There is major investment and growth coming at JFK and LGA over the next 12 months as part of NEA. They got 2 years before they BA and other airlines have to move out. They have no facility project anywhere else in the network. They have debt to cap ratio of 59% (still second best among US airlines). I'm not sure why you think JetBlue is incapable of taking on a project when DL has 4 projects ongoing. The only way this doesn't happen on time is if 2022 continues to be terrible for the us airlines industry. It doesn't look like that will happen. If it does happen, I'd think UA's ambition at JFK would be pretty tame for a little while longer.

Again, they can delay starting the project without delaying knocking down T-7. This is about JetBlue having control over who flies out of where in JFK. This is about JetBlue having complete control over the most or second most attractive asset in one of the world's most well known international airports. Think about the value of that for their market value.

If UA wants a medium term solution at JFK, it needs to get into negotiation table with JetBlue or deal with whatever is left over at T-4. The sooner it figures out a solution, the better.

We are just talking around each other. I am not suggesting that JetBlue is "incapable" (your words, not mine) of taking on the T6 project. I am saying that the T6 project, as was announced in late 2019, appears to be stalled. The funding is not currently in place. Construction isn't underway. As far as I can tell, that's objective fact. But you don't seem to be interested in discussing that.

Most likely, what's happening is behind-the-scenes discussions to revamp the project (much like JFKIAT has done with T4) to reduce scope and capital cost. Perhaps in the coming months we'll see a revised proposal brought to the PANYNJ Board for approval. That will require changes to the JetBlue T5 lease, perhaps a new lease for the to-be-developed T6 facility, and a revision or sunset of the BA T7 lease. The process is necessarily public, so the timelines and high-level approvals will be no secret. But those are all prerequisites for any major facility projects at JFK, and in the interim, it's not unreasonable to expect the status quo to persist.

All of this speculation on your part based on the fact that DL reduce the scope of its project. Keep in mind that DL still has the option to expand the scope later. It does not lose anything by reducing the scope of the project On top of that, it has been spending money on at least 3 other major projects. JetBlue has no reason to give up lease on something it has worked hard for. Keep in mind, it has the rights to redevelop T-6 as it sees fit for many years now. Why would it give that up? Why would it give up the right to redevelop T-7 that it worked so hard to get?

Apart from making things easier for UA, there is no real benefit for JetBlue of anything that you are suggesting. If UA won't give up its assets at EWR for reducing costs, why would B6 do that at JFK?

I would also note that, philosophically, what you're suggesting (JetBlue to "control" JFK) is diametrically opposed to the Port Authority's current stance on competitive access to its airport faciltiies. The Port has been much more aggressive in demanding common-use gate allocation for major projects, especially those in which the PA partially funds. Criticism over historical exclusive leases on gates (UA at EWR C, AA at JFK T8) reducing access to new-entrants has led the Port to adopt new usage thresholds and common/preferential use stipulations for the most recent terminal projects.

That's not to say B6 won't utilize gates it has a hand in developing, but the Port is committed to creating more common use gates at its airports, so non-incumbent players (like B6 at EWR, or UA at JFK) are not hamstrung by a lack of gate space if they intend to add service that the airfield can support.

T-5 at JFK is basically like T-8 in how it operates. Only airlines that are partners with JetBlue are operating out of T-5 right now. It's so funny. You get offended when a couple of us mention B6 grabbing more gates at EWR terminal 1, which actually is well known to be a CUTE facility built by PANYNJ. On the other hand, T-5 extension to T-6/7 is a facility that will be developed/managed by JetBlue and its partners. But somehow, this facility needs to be opened up with CUTE allocation for any airlines to come in. Here is the deal. B6 will find tenants for its new facility, because it won't use enough slots to fully utilize those gates. But if it doesn't want UA in there, UA is not getting in there.

UA will have to negotiate for something with B6 if T5-7 is where it wants to be long term.

codc10 · Sat May 01, 2021 2:54 am

tphuang wrote:
All of this speculation on your part based on the fact that DL reduce the scope of its project. Keep in mind that DL still has the option to expand the scope later. It does not lose anything by reducing the scope of the project On top of that, it has been spending money on at least 3 other major projects. JetBlue has no reason to give up lease on something it has worked hard for. Keep in mind, it has the rights to redevelop T-6 as it sees fit for many years now. Why would it give that up? Why would it give up the right to redevelop T-7 that it worked so hard to get?

Apart from making things easier for UA, there is no real benefit for JetBlue of anything that you are suggesting. If UA won't give up its assets at EWR for reducing costs, why would B6 do that at JFK?

Now you're just making things up. I'm merely pointing to the fact that progress on the T6 project, as contemplated at the outset in late 2019 (ancient history in this business), appears to be at a standstill. No bonds, no enabling projects, no apparent construction. I'm not doubting it will happen... but I am highly skeptical of the timetable and have questions about the status of the project. I think that's totally legitimate given the state of the industry.

If you have actual insight on what's happening with the JFK Millenium Partners project, I'd love to hear it. Suffice to say, it has been radio silence for while.

T-5 at JFK is basically like T-8 in how it operates. Only airlines that are partners with JetBlue are operating out of T-5 right now. It's so funny. You get offended when a couple of us mention B6 grabbing more gates at EWR terminal 1, which actually is well known to be a CUTE facility built by PANYNJ. On the other hand, T-5 extension to T-6/7 is a facility that will be developed/managed by JetBlue and its partners. But somehow, this facility needs to be opened up with CUTE allocation for any airlines to come in. Here is the deal. B6 will find tenants for its new facility, because it won't use enough slots to fully utilize those gates. But if it doesn't want UA in there, UA is not getting in there.

UA will have to negotiate for something with B6 if T5-7 is where it wants to be long term.

I think you must have me confused with someone else. I am intimately aware of how T1/EWR (now apparently TA again) is being developed, and how access will be allocated. It will be nominally common-use, with preferential gate allocations to airlines based on relatively low usage thresholds calculated by past gate leases and operations at EWR. There will not be long-term airline exclusive gates there.

What I consistently cautioned against on this forum was looking at post-COVID schedules as the sole basis for how preferential-access gates will be allocated at T1. Some users have predicted that reduced COVID-era schedules would weigh heavily on gate assignments when the new facility opens. The PANYNJ most assuredly isn't looking at it this way.

I am fully aware of the nature JFK T5 lease; working with that document and others like it at the NYC airports is a big part of what I do for a living. Do you know for a fact that T6 is going to be a JetBlue exclusive lease? That's not at all my understanding; in fact, I understood the Port Authority is no longer interested in doing exclusive leases/custodial tenancies for future projects. T5 is likely the last all-new airline-exclusive facility on the Port Authority property... keep in mind we are well into the second decade of that lease.

But, if you can show your work to the contrary, please be my guest.

airzona11 · Sat May 01, 2021 3:20 am

codc10 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Just wait till UA finds out how much JFK demand has changed during the course of the pandemic. JFK-LHR 3x is not happening period. How could you make the argument that business travel is down and that’s why they will cut EWR to 4x then also try to say they need 3x from JFK because of business demand?

Did I say it was because of business demand? Nope. In fact, the only reason there was a planned 7x EWR-LHR operation for Summer 2020 and beyond (which never happened) was to cater to a traditional, Manhattan-centric business demand profile that has fragmented in a way that nobody could have predicted at the beginning of 2020. Manhattan business will substantially return, but a considerable number of the people who lived there, and fit international business class demographics, have left for the suburbs of New Jersey, Long Island, Westchester and Connecticut. Middle and senior level staff, including those who frequently traveled between New York and global business centers, will likely not be in office setting 5 days a week as in the past. The model is evolving. If UA hopes to recapture its clientele, meet the needs of its corporate clients and potentially expand its customer base, it must prepare to be where its customers are. Manhattan will always be the "center of gravity" but at least for the next few years airlines and businesses are not expecting a snap-back to normalcy.

It's no use arguing over something that I posit as mere speculation, subject to a multitude of external factors that none of us can predict... it is expressly not an expectation or forecast.

Great post. I think you can copy and paste this for a lot if not most large metros.

intotheair · Sat May 01, 2021 3:48 am

I'm not against UA at JFK (I think it was a brilliant idea to come back), but I don't have too many expectations for them beyond JFK-SFO/LAX. Those are the two markets that make by far the most sense in terms of utility to O&D. Getting those two back up to 6-7x each would be a success in its own right. Maybe there's some connectivity advantage in adding ORD/DEN/IAH (what, is there big demand for JFK-DEN-TUS?), but at the same time, LGA is going to be superior to JFK for most people coming from ORD/DEN/IAH.

LHR would be fascinating and bold, and I could see how that could be something they'd try to do, especially in the Scott Kirby era. But I bet they'd want more slots over there first, which was something they were starting to do pre-pandemic. Remember how they got a LHR slot from LH to make LHR-DEN year-round? I have trouble imagining UA would want to get into the JFK-LHR bloodbath if it meant drawing down EWR-LHR to 4x and SFO-LHR to 1x, even if demand in those two markets is soft right now. Maybe BOS is the experiment this summer to see how well they can hold their weight on a non-hub-LHR route.

Midwestindy · Sat May 01, 2021 12:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

July domestic is updated now on united.com

Im not sure it is. It has routes like IAH-RIC at 3x daily and IAH-LGA at 8x daily.

Meant on Unitedcargo.com, my bad

IAH-LGA looks like 5x on July 16, and RIC 1x

Now updated July is bookable.

atcsundevil · Sat May 01, 2021 1:35 pm

Some of the posts in here are starting to get quite personal and borderline hostile. Let's take the tone down a few notches and just have a productive discussion please.

✈️ atcsundevil

ChaseP · Sat May 01, 2021 5:20 pm

Maintenance Update:
N57855 (Boeing 757-300) ferried from ORD to SFO (UA2755/01) for heavy maintenance check.
N649UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from ILN to EWR (UA2763/03) after heavy maintenance.

atrude777 · Sun May 02, 2021 4:55 pm

As mentioned above by MidwestIndy July is now up!

I got a schedule change for my July 10th booking which I knew would happen. The fare was so low I had to grab it. The new schedule gave me a 15 min connection so I was able to change it and keep my seats and all!

Alex

codc10 · Sun May 02, 2021 5:09 pm

atrude777 wrote:
As mentioned above by MidwestIndy July is now up!

I got a schedule change for my July 10th booking which I knew would happen. The fare was so low I had to grab it. The new schedule gave me a 15 min connection so I was able to change it and keep my seats and all!

Alex

Lots of 757-200s and 767-300s added to the West Coast-Hawaii schedule for June/July with this update...

UALifer · Sun May 02, 2021 6:52 pm

codc10 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
As mentioned above by MidwestIndy July is now up!

I got a schedule change for my July 10th booking which I knew would happen. The fare was so low I had to grab it. The new schedule gave me a 15 min connection so I was able to change it and keep my seats and all!

Alex

Lots of 757-200s and 767-300s added to the West Coast-Hawaii schedule for June/July with this update...

A 767 in LIH, that’ll be fun to see.

atrude777 · Sun May 02, 2021 7:11 pm

codc10 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
As mentioned above by MidwestIndy July is now up!

I got a schedule change for my July 10th booking which I knew would happen. The fare was so low I had to grab it. The new schedule gave me a 15 min connection so I was able to change it and keep my seats and all!

Alex

Lots of 757-200s and 767-300s added to the West Coast-Hawaii schedule for June/July with this update...

I went from a CR5 to an Airbus A319.

I would LOVE if a 757 or 767 showed up at my gate! Hahahaha

Alex

sldispatcher · Sun May 02, 2021 7:25 pm

Is the only thing holding further DEN expansion back at this point gate space? Seems like they were jammed in there a couple of weeks ago during an afternoon bank. Other than adding banks, not sure what else UA can do at DEN until more gates come online. What say you?

alasizon · Sun May 02, 2021 7:37 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
Is the only thing holding further DEN expansion back at this point gate space? Seems like they were jammed in there a couple of weeks ago during an afternoon bank. Other than adding banks, not sure what else UA can do at DEN until more gates come online. What say you?

It isn't just gate space, there are also considerations of other hub levels that have to come into play. Out and back doesn't work for every market due to stage length resulting in getting back to DEN too late (or having to leave too early). When other hubs are depressed, that leaves less routing opportunities in the outstations to meet the required departure times to get back to DEN in time. All of the Mountain West hubs (PHX, SLC, DEN) plus DFW and IAH to a degree have the exact same problem.

BEG2IAH · Sun May 02, 2021 9:52 pm

Guys, any news yet when the July international schedule will be loaded? Thanks.

ChaseP · Mon May 03, 2021 1:31 pm

For you schedule nerds like myself, United's May flight scheduled will start on May 6. Look for your favorite hub to increase flights.

Storage Update:
N659UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from ROW to SFO (UA2720/04). Aircraft will eventually head to HKG for heavy maintenance.
N69059 (Boeing 767-400) is scheduled to ferry from ROW to IAD (UA2719/04) for heavy maintenance.

Maintenance Update:
N67052 (Boeing 767-400) entered EWR for maintenance and engine change.
N644UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from HKG to GUM (UA2848/04) after heavy maintenance.

Polaris Update:
N657UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from GUM to HKG (UA2846/04) for Polaris seating.

calpsafltskeds · Mon May 03, 2021 2:18 pm

Polaris status:

Below all complete or in mod/stored
763 High J/PP, 19 complete, last 2 now in mod (7 currently stored/heavy maint.)
772GE, 21 complete, last now in mod (9 currently stored/heavy maint.)
788, 10 complete, last 2 now in mod (1 currently heavy maint.)
78X/77W, all delivered with Polaris/PP (all flying)
772PW, 29 complete, (all grounded/fan blades - Note: 4 conversions to Domestic all stored/1 complete)

Below Polaris Program incomplete
763 30BF Polaris, 14 of 17 complete, (3 stored/heavy maint. - 3 unconverted stored)
789 14 of 38 complete, (all flying, newest unit now receiving Polaris seats)
764: 0 of 16 complete (all stored/heavy maint.) fleet to be reactivated, Polaris conversion unknown

EssentialBusDC · Mon May 03, 2021 2:29 pm

ChaseP wrote:
For you schedule nerds like myself, United's May flight scheduled will start on May 6. Look for your favorite hub to increase flights.

Storage Update:
N659UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from ROW to SFO (UA2720/04). Aircraft will eventually head to HKG for heavy maintenance.
N69059 (Boeing 767-400) is scheduled to ferry from ROW to IAD (UA2719/04) for heavy maintenance.

Maintenance Update:
N67052 (Boeing 767-400) entered EWR for maintenance and engine change.
N644UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from HKG to GUM (UA2848/04) after heavy maintenance.

Polaris Update:
N657UA (Boeing 767-300) is scheduled to ferry from GUM to HKG (UA2846/04) for Polaris seating.

Heavy Mx at Dulles?

rjbesikof · Mon May 03, 2021 2:57 pm

BEG2IAH wrote:
Guys, any news yet when the July international schedule will be loaded? Thanks.

It's complicated. The EU Commission just recommended that European countries reopen to fully vaccinated people. I wonder if United will really ramp up its Europe schedule beyond the recent adds to KEF, ATH, and Dubrovnik.

RJNUT · Mon May 03, 2021 3:40 pm

I'm treating myself to Business class ORD-HNL on the nonstop 787-8 end of June , which i assume will be Polaris seating ? I cant assign a seat right now which has me wondering.

mmahpeel · Mon May 03, 2021 3:56 pm

For July - the Hawaii schedule for sale currently is still the placeholder schedule.

calpsafltskeds · Mon May 03, 2021 3:57 pm

All 788s now have Polaris. 10 complete, 2 in mod.

In fact right now, the only widebodies currently flying w/o Polaris are 789s. 23 of 38 still have Diamond. Conversions could re-start in XMN when 2 788s are complete.
- 3 non-Polaris 763s stored and will probably stay that way until potential 30BF Polaris conversion
- 16 764s are sked to return to service this summer without Polaris - maybe temporarily due to 772PW fan blade issue.

jayunited · Mon May 03, 2021 8:53 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Guys, any news yet when the July international schedule will be loaded? Thanks.

It's complicated. The EU Commission just recommended that European countries reopen to fully vaccinated people. I wonder if United will really ramp up its Europe schedule beyond the recent adds to KEF, ATH, and Dubrovnik.

The long haul and short haul international schedule is already loaded, United updated the long haul schedule way before the EU commission recommended reopening to vaccinated travelers.

I think what we will see is once it becomes official and not just a recommendation UA will add back some European destinations that are currently still showing as suspended. One of the best examples I can think of is Greece United immediately reinstated EWR-ATH and announced IAD-ATH once it was official Greece would be opened to Americans. However I don't think this can be a one way street, if the EU reopens to fully vaccinated American then I think the expectation is the White House would need to respond in kind and reopen US borders to fully vaccinated Europeans from the EU.

LAXdude1023 · Mon May 03, 2021 9:01 pm

jayunited wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Guys, any news yet when the July international schedule will be loaded? Thanks.

It's complicated. The EU Commission just recommended that European countries reopen to fully vaccinated people. I wonder if United will really ramp up its Europe schedule beyond the recent adds to KEF, ATH, and Dubrovnik.

The long haul and short haul international schedule is already loaded, United updated the long haul schedule way before the EU commission recommended reopening to vaccinated travelers.

I think what we will see is once it becomes official and not just a recommendation UA will add back some European destinations that are currently still showing as suspended. One of the best examples I can think of is Greece United immediately reinstated EWR-ATH and announced IAD-ATH once it was official Greece would be opened to Americans. However I don't think this can be a one way street, if the EU reopens to fully vaccinated American then I think the expectation is the White House would need to respond in kind and reopen US borders to fully vaccinated Europeans from the EU.

The long haul schedule is already loaded for July?

Thats great if so. That means IAH-NRT/AMS/LHR are all back.

Scarebus34 · Mon May 03, 2021 10:30 pm

jayunited wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Guys, any news yet when the July international schedule will be loaded? Thanks.

It's complicated. The EU Commission just recommended that European countries reopen to fully vaccinated people. I wonder if United will really ramp up its Europe schedule beyond the recent adds to KEF, ATH, and Dubrovnik.

The long haul and short haul international schedule is already loaded, United updated the long haul schedule way before the EU commission recommended reopening to vaccinated travelers.

I think what we will see is once it becomes official and not just a recommendation UA will add back some European destinations that are currently still showing as suspended. One of the best examples I can think of is Greece United immediately reinstated EWR-ATH and announced IAD-ATH once it was official Greece would be opened to Americans. However I don't think this can be a one way street, if the EU reopens to fully vaccinated American then I think the expectation is the White House would need to respond in kind and reopen US borders to fully vaccinated Europeans from the EU.

Not so. EWR-ATH had been for sale the entire time starting in July and was never suspended.

UAinAUS · Tue May 04, 2021 12:10 pm

UAX Update:

E145XR:
N14188 entered revenue service with CommutAir

CR7:
N743SK exited ROW in EvoBlu livery
N795SK exited ROW n EvoBlu livery
N792SK entered ROW for paint
N793SK entered ROW for paint

Nicknuzzii · Tue May 04, 2021 12:23 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:

It's complicated. The EU Commission just recommended that European countries reopen to fully vaccinated people. I wonder if United will really ramp up its Europe schedule beyond the recent adds to KEF, ATH, and Dubrovnik.

The long haul and short haul international schedule is already loaded, United updated the long haul schedule way before the EU commission recommended reopening to vaccinated travelers.

I think what we will see is once it becomes official and not just a recommendation UA will add back some European destinations that are currently still showing as suspended. One of the best examples I can think of is Greece United immediately reinstated EWR-ATH and announced IAD-ATH once it was official Greece would be opened to Americans. However I don't think this can be a one way street, if the EU reopens to fully vaccinated American then I think the expectation is the White House would need to respond in kind and reopen US borders to fully vaccinated Europeans from the EU.

The long haul schedule is already loaded for July?

Thats great if so. That means IAH-NRT/AMS/LHR are all back.

No it’s not updated. Some routes that were previously cut are just gone and then there was no additional tweaks.

AVENSAB727 · Tue May 04, 2021 8:27 pm

Any updates on when the MAXes with the electrical issue should be fixed up and flying again?

flyer56 · Wed May 05, 2021 3:23 am

Looks like SFO-TPE is back to doing a crew change in GUM again. Possibly related to the recent TPE Novotel COVID breakout. While it was not that many cases I heard they shipped everyone in the hotel to a government quarantine center, maybe it included some foreign crew and United does not want any of their crew in a similar situation. Bummer for me, though.

MLIAA · Wed May 05, 2021 3:27 am

In early 2019 United took delivery of ex EasyJet G-EZIY, and it became N3305U. It doesn’t look like it’s done anything since being delivered.

Was this just a parts bird to help keep the rest of the fleet going?

ChaseP · Wed May 05, 2021 3:30 am

MLIAA wrote:
In early 2019 United took delivery of ex EasyJet G-EZIY, and it became N3305U. It doesn’t look like it’s done anything since being delivered.

Was this just a parts bird to help keep the rest of the fleet going?

The EasyJet frames will become parts for United's fleet.

intotheair · Wed May 05, 2021 4:56 am

ChaseP wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
In early 2019 United took delivery of ex EasyJet G-EZIY, and it became N3305U. It doesn’t look like it’s done anything since being delivered.

Was this just a parts bird to help keep the rest of the fleet going?

The EasyJet frames will become parts for United's fleet.

Any idea yet on when we’ll start seeing that happen?

codc10 · Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am

intotheair wrote:
ChaseP wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
In early 2019 United took delivery of ex EasyJet G-EZIY, and it became N3305U. It doesn’t look like it’s done anything since being delivered.

Was this just a parts bird to help keep the rest of the fleet going?

The EasyJet frames will become parts for United's fleet.

Any idea yet on when we’ll start seeing that happen?

Reportedly, the EasyJet frames will now be sold, this was disclosed by Nocella in the (IIRC) 4Q earnings call. I wouldn’t be surprised if some are scrapped. Apparently, the plan to integrate the ex-EZY 319s with CFM power has been dropped. The Volaris 320s bought a few years ago have already been parted-out.

jayunited · Wed May 05, 2021 11:14 am

flyer56 wrote:
Looks like SFO-TPE is back to doing a crew change in GUM again. Possibly related to the recent TPE Novotel COVID breakout. While it was not that many cases I heard they shipped everyone in the hotel to a government quarantine center, maybe it included some foreign crew and United does not want any of their crew in a similar situation. Bummer for me, though.

UA also runs cargo only flights out of both ORD and LAX to TPE. It looks like tomorrows (5/6/2021) ORD-TPE flight will now operate ORD-NRT-TPE instead of ORD-TPE.

jayunited · Wed May 05, 2021 11:24 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Any updates on when the MAXes with the electrical issue should be fixed up and flying again?

The last update given was airlines are still waiting for the service bulletin. We were told UA knows what the problem is and can fix it but we have to wait for the service bulletin, and we were told both the FAA and Boeing are being cautious and meticulous for safety reasons but also because neither wants to appear as though they are cutting corners to get these aircraft back into service.

As soon as the service bulletin is out UA stated it would take around 24 hours of work on each frame to get them back in service, but for now United just like every other airline with grounded MAXes sits and waits for the FAA and Boeing and the original timeframe airlines were given has come and gone.

calpsafltskeds · Wed May 05, 2021 1:27 pm

I wonder how much of the 24 hour repair includes getting to the part and if UA has taken the steps (or been allowed) in at least one aircraft to get to the part while its grounded?

mah584jr · Wed May 05, 2021 2:05 pm

It looks like ten more United Clubs will be opening in the coming weeks:

Chicago O’Hare (ORD) – reopening at Gate C16, followed by locations at B18 and F4 — all United Clubs open by end of June.
Houston (IAH) – reopening two more lounges: C South and Terminal B.
San Francisco (SFO) – reopening in Boarding Area E (Gate E4).
Washington Dulles (IAD) – reopening near Gate C17.
Fort Lauderdale (FLL) – reopening near Gate C1.
Orlando (MCO) – reopening near Gate 43.
Las Vegas (LAS) – reopening between Gates 33 and 35.

No immediate plans for the Polaris lounges.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... g-lounges/

Golfmikey · Wed May 05, 2021 2:12 pm

first rev flight for 764 tomorrow 5/6 flt 1235 ewr-iah

Scarebus34 · Wed May 05, 2021 2:22 pm

mah584jr wrote:
It looks like ten more United Clubs will be opening in the coming weeks:

Chicago O’Hare (ORD) – reopening at Gate C16, followed by locations at B18 and F4 — all United Clubs open by end of June.
Houston (IAH) – reopening two more lounges: C South and Terminal B.
San Francisco (SFO) – reopening in Boarding Area E (Gate E4).
Washington Dulles (IAD) – reopening near Gate C17.
Fort Lauderdale (FLL) – reopening near Gate C1.
Orlando (MCO) – reopening near Gate 43.
Las Vegas (LAS) – reopening between Gates 33 and 35.

No immediate plans for the Polaris lounges.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... g-lounges/

United plans to reopen eight additional lounges by Labor Day weekend, including locations in New York LaGuardia (LGA) and Boston (BOS).

Golfmikey · Wed May 05, 2021 3:32 pm

789: N28987 expected to depart XMN with polaris tomorrow: XMN-NRT-ORD
772 : N77019 expected to depart XMN after heavy mx tomorrow: XMN- NRT-SFO
A319:N882UA ex China southern to depart XMN tomorrow: XMN-NRT-ANC-SFO

LAXdude1023 · Wed May 05, 2021 8:01 pm

I did this for the Houston thread but its relevant here. Thought Id add it here too. Its changes in UA's hub schedule from May to July at IAH:

IAH-Texas Flights
ABI: 2 no change
AMA: 3 no change
AUS: 5 to 8
BRO: 3 to 4
CRP: 5 to 7
DFW: 6 to 8
ELP: 4 to 5
HRL: 4 no change
LBB: 3 no change
LRD: 2 no change
MFE: 5 to 6
SAT: 5 to 8
SJT: 2 no change

IAH-Plain States/Midwest from ORD West
DSM: 2 to 3
ICT: 3 no change
JLN: New Service - 1 flight
MCI: 4 to 5
MKE: 1 to 2
MSP: 2 to 3
OKC: 5 to 8
OMA: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
ORD: 8 to 10
SGF: 1 to 2
STL: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
TUL: 4 to 5

IAH-Midwest east of ORD
CLE: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to mainline
CMH: 2 to 3
CVG: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
DTW: 3 no change
GRR: 0 to 1
IND: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
PIT: 2 to 3
SDF: 1 to 2

IAH-Northeast/Virginia/Domestic Caribbean
BOS: 2 to 4
BWI: 2 no change - one upgrade to mainline
DCA: 3 to 4
EWR: 6 to 7
IAD: 4 to 6
LGA: 3 to 5 - one upgrade to mainline
ORF: 1 to 2
PHL: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to mainline
RIC: 0 to 1
SJU: 3 no change
STT: 1 no change

IAH-South
AEX: 2 no change
ATL: 4 to 5 - one upgrade to mainline
BHM: 4 no change
BNA: 6 to 7
BTR: 4 to 7
CHA: 1 no change
CHS: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to Mainline
CLT: 3 no change
GPT: 2 to 3
GSP: 2 no change
HSV: 2 no change
JAN: 3 to 4
LCH: 2 no change
LFT: 5 no change
LIT: 3 to 4
MEM: 4 no change
MLU: 1 no change
MOB: 4 no change
MSY: 5 to 8
RDU: 3 no change
SAV: 2 no change
SHV: 2 to 3
TYS: 4 no change
XNA: 3 to 4

IAH-Florida
ECP: 4 no change
EYW: 1 no change
FLL: 4 to 5
JAX: 4 no change
MCO: 5 to 6
MIA: 5 to 4
PBI: 1 no change
PNS: 5 to 6
RSW: 2 no change
SRQ: 1 no change
TLH: 1 no change
TPA: 3 no change
VPS: 4 no change

IAH-Mountain West
ABQ: 3 to 4
ASE: 0 to 2
BOI: 1 to 2
BZN: 0 to 1 - mainline
COS: 2 to 3
DEN: 9 no change
FCA: 0 to 1
GUC: 0 to 1
HOB: 1 no change
JAC: 0 to 1
LAS: 5 to 6
MTJ: 0 to 1
PHX: 4 to 5
RNO: 0 to 1
SLC: 5 to 7
TUS: 2 no change

IAH-West Coast/Alaska/Hawaii
ANC: 0 to 1
HNL: 1 no change
LAX: 6 to 9
ONT: 1 no change
PDX: 2 no change
SAN: 3 to 5
SEA: 2 to 4
SFO: 6 to 8
SMF: 2 no change
SJC: 1 to 2
SNA: 2 to 4

Scarebus34 · Wed May 05, 2021 8:23 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I did this for the Houston thread but its relevant here. Thought Id add it here too. Its changes in UA's hub schedule from May to July at IAH:

IAH-Texas Flights
ABI: 2 no change
AMA: 3 no change
AUS: 5 to 8
BRO: 3 to 4
CRP: 5 to 7
DFW: 6 to 8
ELP: 4 to 5
HRL: 4 no change
LBB: 3 no change
LRD: 2 no change
MFE: 5 to 6
SAT: 5 to 8
SJT: 2 no change

IAH-Plain States/Midwest from ORD West
DSM: 2 to 3
ICT: 3 no change
JLN: New Service - 1 flight
MCI: 4 to 5
MKE: 1 to 2
MSP: 2 to 3
OKC: 5 to 8
OMA: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
ORD: 8 to 10
SGF: 1 to 2
STL: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
TUL: 4 to 5

IAH-Midwest east of ORD
CLE: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to mainline
CMH: 2 to 3
CVG: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
DTW: 3 no change
GRR: 0 to 1
IND: 3 no change - one upgrade to mainline
PIT: 2 to 3
SDF: 1 to 2

IAH-Northeast/Virginia/Domestic Caribbean
BOS: 2 to 4
BWI: 2 no change - one upgrade to mainline
DCA: 3 to 4
EWR: 6 to 7
IAD: 4 to 6
LGA: 3 to 5 - one upgrade to mainline
ORF: 1 to 2
PHL: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to mainline
RIC: 0 to 1
SJU: 3 no change
STT: 1 no change

IAH-South
AEX: 2 no change
ATL: 4 to 5 - one upgrade to mainline
BHM: 4 no change
BNA: 6 to 7
BTR: 4 to 7
CHA: 1 no change
CHS: 2 to 3 - one upgrade to Mainline
CLT: 3 no change
GPT: 2 to 3
GSP: 2 no change
HSV: 2 no change
JAN: 3 to 4
LCH: 2 no change
LFT: 5 no change
LIT: 3 to 4
MEM: 4 no change
MLU: 1 no change
MOB: 4 no change
MSY: 5 to 8
RDU: 3 no change
SAV: 2 no change
SHV: 2 to 3
TYS: 4 no change
XNA: 3 to 4

IAH-Florida
ECP: 4 no change
EYW: 1 no change
FLL: 4 to 5
JAX: 4 no change
MCO: 5 to 6
MIA: 5 to 4
PBI: 1 no change
PNS: 5 to 6
RSW: 2 no change
SRQ: 1 no change
TLH: 1 no change
TPA: 3 no change
VPS: 4 no change

IAH-Mountain West
ABQ: 3 to 4
ASE: 0 to 2
BOI: 1 to 2
BZN: 0 to 1 - mainline
COS: 2 to 3
DEN: 9 no change
FCA: 0 to 1
GUC: 0 to 1
HOB: 1 no change
JAC: 0 to 1
LAS: 5 to 6
MTJ: 0 to 1
PHX: 4 to 5
RNO: 0 to 1
SLC: 5 to 7
TUS: 2 no change

IAH-West Coast/Alaska/Hawaii
ANC: 0 to 1
HNL: 1 no change
LAX: 6 to 9
ONT: 1 no change
PDX: 2 no change
SAN: 3 to 5
SEA: 2 to 4
SFO: 6 to 8
SMF: 2 no change
SJC: 1 to 2
SNA: 2 to 4

Looks like IAH-GRK returns to 3 x daily sometime in June.

adambrau · Thu May 06, 2021 1:12 am

VC10er wrote:
Hello Everyone,
I have been too sad about not flying much (5 round trips I believe in 2020) and have dropped off airliners.net as it made me even more sad! So I missed a lot!

My first question is, has United targeted a date to reopen Polaris lounges?

Anything revealing for the 737MAX 10 lie flat first seat and layout?

Once vaccinated I plan to take some joy rides; does UA have any regularly scheduled MAX flights from EWR? And does anyone have interior shots? Thanks!

I have some more but since I am BACK now, I’m sure I will pick up more news. Missed all of you! Richard

Hey it's good to see you back. I started working at Air France in May 2019 (my second time) and indeed it's been a weird year. I have lurked more than posted as things really went into free fall during the pandemic. I've been to Cairo, Switzerland and Florida in the last year but now that I've had the second vaccine since February I'm really back up to flying. And catch up as to what has been going on at UA which I have sort of ditched at 2.7 mm. Anyway, good to see you back on the forum!

Nicknuzzii · Thu May 06, 2021 1:56 am

Seriously, just about everyone has complained about the overcrowding at EWR UA clubs and now UA isn’t opening another club at least through Labor Day?

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net